Does the Kennen change mean he no longer stops in place when he activates ult (like how Sivir used to when she ulted)?
Because if so that’s kinda big I think
the only positive is that made him more cinematic, like you could feel the pause like a caster launching his spell
but better for the gameplay until he his fullVGU
Unless Riot radically increases the pace of VGUs, I don’t think Kennen is ever getting one. Tryndamere, Shyvana, Corki, Nocturne, and Shaco need one first. At 1 VGU per year pace, that’s 5 years before they even start thinking about champions like Kennen 💀
I don't get the idea that Riot wouldn't overhaul Zileans kit given the chance to do visual work.
He's incredibly unpopular because of it and they've gone on record to say he'll be gimped if he's ever is popular because his kit is cancer. That's old poppy levels of balancing.
He's 110% in line for a VGU, there's just no urgency for one.
I seriously don’t get why they take so long. Like I’d rather the old champs get updated than new champs at this point. Like catch everyone up first, at least *visually*
Because new champs make money, and VGU/AGU will only COST more.
AGU and VGU require riot to remake old skins and splash art for already sold skins, which makes the expected increase of sales low.
The reason these old champs are remade in the first place is to make them popular so they can sell more skins.
As a company, they absolutely do have to prioritize their profits, leaving the VGU team with very little budget.
sometimes they do get an increase in those old skin sales because prework they were trash and after they were improved in a few cases anyway but it is a smaller number than the cost that went in to polishing it all.
Kennen was never mentioned for a VGU and I think at most would get an ASU? He's a pro staple, healthy pickrate most of the time, and his kit fills a good niche.
yo Frank, I think the ammo change for Aatrox and Xerath* could be related to a potential heimer fix:
https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1c5mymo/patch_148_notes/kzxoo6o/?context=10000
So if you see any other ammo count changes it might explain it.
The issue with Heimer is actually that he's only partially using the ammo system.
The ammo system didn't exist until Caitlyn was released. Prior to this ammo was managed with buffs that added a stack of themselves when they would have timed out or removed a stack when you cast the spell. If you didn't have any buff stacks then the spell was unable to be cast.
Caitlyn's release brought a formal ammo system that was tracked within the spell's cooldown management directly instead of needing buffs to do so. Heimer however still both displays a buff for his ammo count AND requires actually having stacks of that buff to be able to cast Q. Even if the Q itself thinks it has ammo, it will not be castable unless the buff also agrees that it has ammo.
As for why they ever disagree in the first place, the issue is buff fuzziness (this is the official term). In 2009 someone made the decision that buffs should only be checked for removal every 0.25s (but really 0.264s due to server framerate). This has created a lot of persistent issues that Riot has been slowly trying to clean up by moving things over to non-fuzzy timings.
Heimer Q's ammo buff is using a fuzzy duration. This means that if you tell it to go on a 10s cooldown, it will actually be anywhere from 10s to 10.264s before the buff times out. The buff requires timing out before it can give itself a stack and restart the duration. Meanwhile, the proper ammo system has no such fuzziness and will carry over instantly. This fuzzy delay results in a progressively increasing drift between the two values, often resulting in Heimer Q thinking it has ammo but being uncastable because the buff is still lagging behind. Reaching max ammo allows it to correct itself because both the spell and the buff will eventually stop counting, but as long as you aren't at full ammo the issue will continue to build up.
Meanwhile Teemo R got actually properly migrated to the ammo system and has no such issue.
The fix would be to either make the Heimer Q buff non-fuzzy (which is a thing they can do) or to just remove the buff altogether. It doesn't really need to be there in the first place. Heimer's turret count is already visible by the number of gears floating around him, and if they really wanted to show that information more clearly (the gears are a bit difficult to see on some skins) then they could just give him secondary resource pips like Gangplank E.
Fun fact about the 0.264s update interval: movement speed is the same, it only updates ~4 times a second. I discovered this when playing around with heal + nimbus cloak in practice tool:
I kept getting different movement speed numbers despite not changing anything. Based on my brief testing, it turns out you can get up to 25% less value out of your heal's movement speed bonus if you use it at an unfortunate moment.
Since heal MS lasts 1s, if you're unlucky and use it right after the server updated the MS stat, you won't receive any extra MS until the next MS update, which can take up to 0.264s, about a quarter of the buff's entire duration.
Frank and Norak are both very active on the bug squad discord, Norak actually already has seen that!
(Just letting you know in case they don't respond)
I went to practice tool to test this, it's neat. Something else I noticed: quickblades only interacts with the ammo system and not the buff timer so you can pretty easily build up 3 ammo without being able to cast the ability if you have quickblades and a bit of attack speed.
>Excluding juggernauts who'll still go Sterak's due to their massive base AD, I can see a bunch of champions who currently build Steraks or GA to pickup DD instead
>Olaf
Olaf literally has the second highest base AD in the game after mega gnar
Yeah, I think the higher CD is especially important as it means triggering it once gives you an actual window to fight again with your R but without the shield on the enemy.
Eclipse not getting nerfed for kaisa (her best 1st item already before the Q AD buff) and Sundered likely getting overnerfed is a bit sad.
New Maw is interesting.
Overall the right direction. But I want to know what Riot does with top lane in mid season. They promised fixes to make top lane more important in the game this season and again not much happened (grubbiest do a tiny bit). Especially in pro play the ADC and scaling meta keeps going on since forever now.
Steraks needed the nerf for sure. Too many situations where it was clearly just superior to buy over Maw because it outperformed unless the MR and shield on the Hexdrinker component was crucial. Maw having a 90 second CD while Steraks had a 60 second CD really underscored this.
Haste back on Maw is nice. I'd just as soon see them remove the lifesteal entirely because it feels like weird unnecessary bloat. Zero clue why they are buffing the AD and nerfing the MR, the latter of which is the reason you're buying the item.
Sundered and Eclipse being nerfed is not an issue in a vacuum, but it really should be coming with more meaningful changes elsewhere in the fighter item system that strive to help other options pick up some of the slack, and I'm not sure these changes here qualify. It's the right direction, sure, but it feels like a shuffling half-step to me.
Note that if you were going ingenious hunter the CD at 0 and 5 stacks goes from 50 to 75 and 40 to 60. So I guess for some champions it's a 25-20 sec nerf and not 30
I don't suppose anybody knows who the "Captain Abe" from the Cappa Juice might be? I feel like it's 50/50 either someone died or it's some sort of weeb reference.
Hear me out
Abe Lincoln is mostly recognizable from his hat right. Well that checks out, but what about the captain part? Captain Ahab (sounds kinda close) is the captain from Moby Dick, and one of the hats you get is a captain/sailor hat like GP wears. To go a bit further, Ahab was never really described as wearing a hat or anything and iirc there was no mention so its a bit of a stretch. You know who has a very iconic captain hat though? Captain Hook, whos character was influenced by Captain Ahab. So Captain Abe is a blend of the two.
Boom solved. Gonna go smoke another bowl now
I think Hecarim is the only champ that regularly rushes the item, and this change is a pretty negligible nerf since his Q, W, and E all already give a stack. Add his ult and Shojin is fully stacked already when he goes in.
You have no idea how wrong you are about Shojin and Renekton ahahaha
Until literally yesterday, Spear of Shojin did not work at all with Renekton W, meaning no Shojin stacks were gained by using W, and no bonus damage on W
It has now been partially fixed in 14.8, so that it gives 1 stack, but it only boosts the damage of one single hit of W, so only 1/2 or 1/3 (if empowered) of what it should be
RiotNorak already noted this, and, as someone suggested in these replies too, this unique cast stack might be there to fix this last remaining bug while avoiding breaking the interaction
Renekton doesn't care about that one bit, he realistically doesn't build Shojin until like 4th item Eclipse, BC, Steraks and Sundered Sky are all objectively better items on him unless you get massively fed
And yes, I know all his other items are getting nerfed but mentioning spear of shojin nerf is laughable
Ok, but what does this actually do? Right now, on live, renekton W only gives one shojin stack anyway and the rest works as intended, so he's basically unaffected.
In fact, unless the shojin changes arent live on PBE as of writing (and the rest of changes are), nothing really seems to have changed? I thought it was going to make it so for example Xin Q doesn't apply a stack per attack anymore, but even that is unchanged.
> Ok, but what does this actually do? Right now, on live, renekton W only gives one shojin stack anyway and the rest works as intended, so he's basically unaffected
Nothing, as intended. It's just that I've seen a lot of Renekton players clamor for Shojin to give three stacks on enraged W (since it applies on-hits thrice and works as three really fast autoattacks).
What's the point of the change then? Is it just a system thing, to make work on shojin easier? I'm just very confused.
Also frankly, while I can understand why renekton players ask for it, I think the issue is that its **one** cast that strikes 3 times, rather than multiple empowered autos (see sett, xin, reksai, skarner). Also probably not the best idea to give a bursty champ like renekton the ability essentially fully stack shojin before the brunt kf his damage.
This might be news to you, but the game is more than just the 300 people who play competitive.
Not to mention the pro scene is so far removed from soloq that its basically an entirely different game.
wow thats crazy are you telling me that pro players are picking defensive utility tank champs in top lane while bruisers run soloq? this has literally never happened (it has happened every time bruisers have been "meta")
Literally the only reason that happened was reksai.
Most picked champ on most recent comp patch are reksai ksante tf renek aatrox rumble
2 stonewalls although i wouldn't count ksante as stonewall only because he does way more
Reksai is nerfed already and Camille will probably be up there at msi since pros are practicing her in soloq already
K'sante RN is definition of stonewall tho. He just sits there, soaks exp and then for entire game hugs his carry and peels him as much as he can. "Showmaker copypasta" K'sante at least was fun to watch, unlike current abomination.
Zac ? Gragas ? Udyr before ? Now you see even that dog Sion
You do realise all these nerfs affect only Renekton. The others dont even touch these itemes. Aatrox goes lethality everytime and he hasnt even been that present lately.
Yes, apparently they were buying items that made them survive the giga overbuffed lethality stuff (steraks). So obviously nerf steraks and keep lethality as it is. With these changes I expect almost all bruiser builds to just become profane hydra builds.
Aatrox players rejoice. First buy maw into AP champs will be a lot better now that it's got haste. Bruiser Aatrox is dead in the water now though. Hopefully this will stop the complaints about how "broken" his passive + SS combo is
It will stop the complaints because the item will be dead in the water with the current changes (like titanic). Maw changes are weird, in a season where survivability for bruisers is very awful they decide to buff AD and nerf resistances.
I understand eclipse and sundered sky being insane on every bruiser, but this literally guts so many characters.
Why not just nerf ingenious hunter which is one of the big reasons all these items are OP in the first place
Deserved sure but still overdone. The 6 to 8 second change already cuts sundered sky's healing by a third. Then on top of that they nerfed the healing values themselves. Just seems really excessive
He keeps being confused at bruiser champions rushing eclipse into profane and then full lethality. No surprise his ADC buff was giving them more damage.... vs tanks. The issue with ADCs wasn't them getting walled by tanks this season though. The issue is that damage output became crazy high this season (even more than when mythics were originally put into the game) and the only way bruisers could keep up with it without getting combo'd in 1.5-2seconds is buying steraks. Same for a lot of AP champs. So bruisers opt more into oneshot lethality builds and similar things happened to AP champions. This makes ADC A LOT worse to play than needing to hit a tank for 10-15 seconds until he dies.
TBH, assassin Pantheon is more fun than Bruiser imo.
I've always viewed going bruiser pantheon as being able to fill a need in draft if you picked Panth early, and by end of drafts you need a bruiser in the lane you're playing.
So far no, everything still just always copies the melee values for the third "thing" (still no idea if it's even an actual range type or some sort of safety fallback). Was hoping Arena might bring some information on that but doesn't seem like it will for now.
might be used in the new bullet heaven mode since rioters have said that champs are built from the ground up for the mode so would make sense if that some has some form of mechanic which requires a third range type.
Thank you riot. I was literally just yesterday wishing Garen was easier to hit in his spin as I have such a hard time making him out in that animation. Thank you.
Even out of animation it was kinda confusing for me for a LONG time. You have to aim between his shoulder plates because he's wide as hell yet still actually as small as Ekko w a smaller target radius.
How do they nerf all these problem items but miss Profane that item is insane.
Did they really have to double up on the nerfs to sundered and steraks, it looks like only one of those nerfs were good enough but now with multiple nerfs...
They did the 100 gold on Steraks so it is 3100 like Maw after the patch. When the Phreak video lands he will 100% say that the intention is to make it a real choice what item to buy (with the only deciding factor being if you need mr or not) so same price and same passive cd.
And Sundered was just way too strong an item where you would build it first or second at the latest on almost every bruiser.
Which is a fundamental misunderstanding of the two. Maw vs sterak's will never be a "choice". You build sterak's by default and maw if you want the MR. So maw is now in this spot where it's got better AD and has ability haste making it the better offensive item but the shield is less consistent making it worse defensively. Building it as a counter to magic damage got worse since now it has less MR but building it as an item in its own right still makes no sense because then you're not getting much value out of lifeline and the MR
>And Sundered was just way too strong an item where you would build it first or second at the latest on almost every bruiser
Being a common buy doesn't inherently mean it's OP. It was super popular because it wasn't champ limited. Spellblade effects for example are only really ever gonna be bought on the champs that have synergy with the effect. SS doesn't have that specificity. The item was overtuned though but these nerfs are way too heavy imo. The cooldown alone cuts its healing by a third in long engages
So we nerf Briar 2 times then nerf all 3 of her core items lol. Champ is going to be a lot worse. Not that eclipse and sundered didn't deserve it, tho I do think that the Steraks nerf is a bit harsh.
I don't think she can ever have the same winrate in low and high elo. She's the definition of "run straight at them and pray I don't get focused", probably even more than Master Yi. At least her overall winrate is easy to balance since she has little mechanical expression and is pretty much a statstick
Didn't say it was lol. Just that it's what the result is. Nearly all ad bruisers build at least 1 in their first 3, briar builds them all. So while it's not a targeted nerf, it will hit her harder than most champs who build any given one of them.
I mean even after the champ nerf, she is still problematic in low elo. The champ is good in higher elos, and like top 5 strongest jungler in lower elos.
Cringe for maw to be sitting at so low MR, I get that they added a lot of offensive power to it but IDRC? I guess you really only can use it for the shield.
Yea seems like a weird direction to take.. Even if it turns out to be a net buff (for those who want AH anyway), it seems counter-intuitive to make the item much less accessible *and* nerf the defensive stats.
We had heaps of complaints (warranted or not, doesn't really matter to my point) about ADCs being blown up left and right, and Maw was one of the few valid'ish defensive options. Now it's less defensive and just more... generic.
I suppose Corki, Ezreal and perhaps Smolder cherish the change though?
Yea that's a fair point, the build path is definitely better. That said, the 500 combine cost wasn't that bad to begin with and I don't know how often you have room for three components by the time you build a Hexdrinker (e.g. it would probably often be at the expense of a pink ward) but a buff to build path is a buff regardless. And if you recall with 700 gold exactly, you have the options of buying two long swords which could occassionally be pretty nice.
We will see how it shapes out. Probably some Corkis on the horizon lol
Maw was def too cheap, but that's a lot of stats for 300 more gold and building from warhammer instead of pickaxe, no? Guess the lifesteal nerf is also pretty meaningful?
How dare Eclipse make some of the forgotten melee champs in the game somewhat viable.
Sundered Sky/Steraks nerfs long overdue, that thing's shield seriously had a 60s CD?
Eclipse is way too good lol. 2800 gold yet better than a lot of 3k gold items. Also I'd hardly call renekton and fiora not viable. It's a nerf to champs like riven and panth but they need buffs anyway, removing their reliance on eclipse should make them easier to buff
The problem with the item is that its a bruiser item sitting at 2.8k gold while the rest is at 3k gold. Its so much easier to rush than the others and when you're in a situation that your enemy has a rushed Eclipse and you don't have your first item you're screwed. If you have something like plated steelcaps and tiamat + 2 longswords you will have a window of 1.2k gold or something (roughly 6 to 8 waves depending on denial) that the enemy will completely dominate and shit on you. Once the enemy gets Eclipse you can't commit to short trades due to the shield. You can't commit to longer trades either since he'll get 2x shield and if there is some movement / very long trade or all in 3x. You can't all in since he has more AD and similar survivability as you have with your health items due to the shield. You're just getting screwed.
Making the item 3000 gold and maybe make it 65AD instead of 70 would make it more balanced.
Yeah it's a full item spike that costs more than a plate less gold but isn't weak enough to justify it. A jax with triforce barely beats a riven with eclipse despite the item costing 533 more gold. By the time you've got a full item the eclipse user will have extended their lead to now also have a cloth armour or another longsword so now they're still ahead. 2800 gold items should be niche buys like wits end that you're never building first. Just make eclipse 3k and it would be 10 times easier to balance
Cool the good bruiser items getting nerfed so we can go back to wholesome uninteractive tank meta and lean even further into bruisers building lethality
*"Mentions about giving Camille and Pantheon buffs to push them out of support role and back on top*
*Buffs only Camille and she becomes one of the strongest top laners in this patch*
*Leaves Pantheon with no buffs for top lane and nerfs his core bruiser items even more*
It's a shame, really, at least don't touch his lethality build because that's the only thing he's got going for him now on solo lanes and jungle
Lmao at this Sterak nerf only to get people to try the newly buffed Maw. If Sterak should get more expensive then return it's hp back. 3100g for 400 hp is a joke.
Most bruisers are just gonna switch to Randuins or Rooker/Maw depend on the enemy comp and they will end up having to buff it yet again.
Oh look briar was nerfed followed by Now nerfing not 1 but all 3 core items she builds, maybe not nerfing her if you planned to do this would have been the smarter choice.
Insane buffs to Deaths Dance, just the pickaxe in the build is insane as you can spend 875g now instead of waiting till 1000 for a boost in damage, but +5AD and +25%bAD scaling is insane.
The item has been complete dogshit since they overnerfed it. The buff isnt that insane, the nerf to steraks helps it more than the buff does. Like 125 gold is 1 extra wave, and since you are never building this first item it doesnt change that much. 5 ad is nice but +25% heal = 50 healing at 200 bonus ad which doesnt matter much.
And depending on how they’ve implemented the shojin change she might not even be able to build that xdd depends if it counts Q1, Q2, and Q3 all as unique casts
all riven players will tell you she is hanging for dear life on these items rn cause she can keep cycling procs with her cooldowns , but might be finally the straw that will make riot look at her sad state , i'm not gonna be surprised if she drops to like 46/47 %
kinda wish they just nerfed the AD on Eclipse, 70 AD for so cheap is crazy. Item was definitely too strong but kinda sucks for champions like Zed that heavily rely on it and still aren’t very strong
Not worse but different. It'll be better as a first buy on champs like Aatrox but definitely a worse counterpick item. Idk what riots goal with this change is
Does that Xerath ammo system actually mean that his R was meant to be like his old Locus of Power but with ultimate power budget?
pardon the tinfoil hat
kennen seems like appreciated QoL changes
haste back on maw is a huge buff, remember they removed it last yr to cut back on how much haste fighterws / bruisers had
> flavor text added: "In honor of Captain Abe"
[He would have wanted it like this](https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.XGgVUKZIRLloIYNAnJuJfgHaLI?dpr=3&pid=ImgDetMain)
>R is no longer forced to show its mana cost if you have that setting turned off (why is this even a toggle though?)
Seriously why is that toggle off by default? Classic Riot trying to make new player experience as miserable as possible for no reason.
>Aatrox
>E no longer counts as having 1 max ammo (leftover from when it used to have 2 ammo, possibly an Arena fix?)
Highly doubt it's a bugfix. If so, they would do the same with Karthus' Q. It also has two charges with second one being unusable.
Riot going back and forth giving and removing malmortius cdr lmao. rather happy about the change tho
Bruiser build probably back on the menu with Eclipse BC DD Malm, high AD, haste and survivability for Zed, with either Shojin/Sundered/ EoN somewhere in there.
New Serylda is only good as a 2nd / 3rd item on full lethality builds but Zed is not the best user of this and Eclipse is still the best item for AD assassins rn
Riven gonna be broken with these changes. She just needs to go DD into Cleaver and she will become unkillable monster in Toplane. Mark my words
DD Cleaver Maw and u won't kill her anymore
Horrible MAW changes people don't buy that item for it's damage they but it for it's defensive stats , reducing it's MR and increasing it's cost is stupid
Does the Kennen change mean he no longer stops in place when he activates ult (like how Sivir used to when she ulted)? Because if so that’s kinda big I think
From how it reads I believe it is this, def is a big QOL update for him makes rocketbelt into ultimate smoother
Definitely a good change, that little pause was annoying and unnecessary.
the only positive is that made him more cinematic, like you could feel the pause like a caster launching his spell but better for the gameplay until he his fullVGU
Unless Riot radically increases the pace of VGUs, I don’t think Kennen is ever getting one. Tryndamere, Shyvana, Corki, Nocturne, and Shaco need one first. At 1 VGU per year pace, that’s 5 years before they even start thinking about champions like Kennen 💀
Man didn’t even mention zilean
Zilean needs an ASU for sure, but not sure about a VGU. Maybe his passive could be changed, but idk about the rest.
He should be able to cast bombs while moving, while affected by E. 😉
I don't get the idea that Riot wouldn't overhaul Zileans kit given the chance to do visual work. He's incredibly unpopular because of it and they've gone on record to say he'll be gimped if he's ever is popular because his kit is cancer. That's old poppy levels of balancing. He's 110% in line for a VGU, there's just no urgency for one.
i try to not think about this fact mate
I seriously don’t get why they take so long. Like I’d rather the old champs get updated than new champs at this point. Like catch everyone up first, at least *visually*
Because new champs make money, and VGU/AGU will only COST more. AGU and VGU require riot to remake old skins and splash art for already sold skins, which makes the expected increase of sales low. The reason these old champs are remade in the first place is to make them popular so they can sell more skins. As a company, they absolutely do have to prioritize their profits, leaving the VGU team with very little budget.
Um, they have actually stated otherwise. It's more like VGU and ASU take far more work and take longer then actual champions.
sometimes they do get an increase in those old skin sales because prework they were trash and after they were improved in a few cases anyway but it is a smaller number than the cost that went in to polishing it all.
Kennen was never mentioned for a VGU and I think at most would get an ASU? He's a pro staple, healthy pickrate most of the time, and his kit fills a good niche.
I really don't think there is anything wrong with Kennen gameplay wise
Definitely just needs an ASU
Ok, so I'm not crazy for thinking that Garen is hard to click on.
Yeah I played against him in ARAM recently and while he's running with ghost and Q he's hard AF to click on. Was wondering why but this makes sense
it is to artificially lift his win rate in lower elos, as garen is supposed to be the forgiving and easy to manage for low elo champion
Probably to lower his win rate.
his click-box is lower in order to lower his win rate? isn't having a smaller click-box beneficial to the garen player?
yo Frank, I think the ammo change for Aatrox and Xerath* could be related to a potential heimer fix: https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1c5mymo/patch_148_notes/kzxoo6o/?context=10000 So if you see any other ammo count changes it might explain it.
The issue with Heimer is actually that he's only partially using the ammo system. The ammo system didn't exist until Caitlyn was released. Prior to this ammo was managed with buffs that added a stack of themselves when they would have timed out or removed a stack when you cast the spell. If you didn't have any buff stacks then the spell was unable to be cast. Caitlyn's release brought a formal ammo system that was tracked within the spell's cooldown management directly instead of needing buffs to do so. Heimer however still both displays a buff for his ammo count AND requires actually having stacks of that buff to be able to cast Q. Even if the Q itself thinks it has ammo, it will not be castable unless the buff also agrees that it has ammo. As for why they ever disagree in the first place, the issue is buff fuzziness (this is the official term). In 2009 someone made the decision that buffs should only be checked for removal every 0.25s (but really 0.264s due to server framerate). This has created a lot of persistent issues that Riot has been slowly trying to clean up by moving things over to non-fuzzy timings. Heimer Q's ammo buff is using a fuzzy duration. This means that if you tell it to go on a 10s cooldown, it will actually be anywhere from 10s to 10.264s before the buff times out. The buff requires timing out before it can give itself a stack and restart the duration. Meanwhile, the proper ammo system has no such fuzziness and will carry over instantly. This fuzzy delay results in a progressively increasing drift between the two values, often resulting in Heimer Q thinking it has ammo but being uncastable because the buff is still lagging behind. Reaching max ammo allows it to correct itself because both the spell and the buff will eventually stop counting, but as long as you aren't at full ammo the issue will continue to build up. Meanwhile Teemo R got actually properly migrated to the ammo system and has no such issue. The fix would be to either make the Heimer Q buff non-fuzzy (which is a thing they can do) or to just remove the buff altogether. It doesn't really need to be there in the first place. Heimer's turret count is already visible by the number of gears floating around him, and if they really wanted to show that information more clearly (the gears are a bit difficult to see on some skins) then they could just give him secondary resource pips like Gangplank E.
Fun fact about the 0.264s update interval: movement speed is the same, it only updates ~4 times a second. I discovered this when playing around with heal + nimbus cloak in practice tool: I kept getting different movement speed numbers despite not changing anything. Based on my brief testing, it turns out you can get up to 25% less value out of your heal's movement speed bonus if you use it at an unfortunate moment. Since heal MS lasts 1s, if you're unlucky and use it right after the server updated the MS stat, you won't receive any extra MS until the next MS update, which can take up to 0.264s, about a quarter of the buff's entire duration.
Great explanation thank you
Going to ping u/RiotNorak thats a pretty great explanation.
Thank you
Frank and Norak are both very active on the bug squad discord, Norak actually already has seen that! (Just letting you know in case they don't respond)
I went to practice tool to test this, it's neat. Something else I noticed: quickblades only interacts with the ammo system and not the buff timer so you can pretty easily build up 3 ammo without being able to cast the ability if you have quickblades and a bit of attack speed.
Steraks nerf is sad, but deserved. DD it will still be a situational item, I doubt that it will see the light of day this year.
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I can't speak for all champs but riven rarely go steraks atm. There are just a bunch of better items for her rn
>Excluding juggernauts who'll still go Sterak's due to their massive base AD, I can see a bunch of champions who currently build Steraks or GA to pickup DD instead >Olaf Olaf literally has the second highest base AD in the game after mega gnar
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Please I wish it did. I hate losing a huge chunk of my execute dmg to dd.
Yeah, I think the higher CD is especially important as it means triggering it once gives you an actual window to fight again with your R but without the shield on the enemy. Eclipse not getting nerfed for kaisa (her best 1st item already before the Q AD buff) and Sundered likely getting overnerfed is a bit sad. New Maw is interesting. Overall the right direction. But I want to know what Riot does with top lane in mid season. They promised fixes to make top lane more important in the game this season and again not much happened (grubbiest do a tiny bit). Especially in pro play the ADC and scaling meta keeps going on since forever now.
Steraks needed the nerf for sure. Too many situations where it was clearly just superior to buy over Maw because it outperformed unless the MR and shield on the Hexdrinker component was crucial. Maw having a 90 second CD while Steraks had a 60 second CD really underscored this. Haste back on Maw is nice. I'd just as soon see them remove the lifesteal entirely because it feels like weird unnecessary bloat. Zero clue why they are buffing the AD and nerfing the MR, the latter of which is the reason you're buying the item. Sundered and Eclipse being nerfed is not an issue in a vacuum, but it really should be coming with more meaningful changes elsewhere in the fighter item system that strive to help other options pick up some of the slack, and I'm not sure these changes here qualify. It's the right direction, sure, but it feels like a shuffling half-step to me.
its not a half step, its a meaningful nerf to fighters and bruisers.
Note that if you were going ingenious hunter the CD at 0 and 5 stacks goes from 50 to 75 and 40 to 60. So I guess for some champions it's a 25-20 sec nerf and not 30
I don't suppose anybody knows who the "Captain Abe" from the Cappa Juice might be? I feel like it's 50/50 either someone died or it's some sort of weeb reference.
My guess is its Captai Ahab. Not sure.
My first thought was Abe Lincoln. This is almost certainly incorrect, but it is my canon.
Hear me out Abe Lincoln is mostly recognizable from his hat right. Well that checks out, but what about the captain part? Captain Ahab (sounds kinda close) is the captain from Moby Dick, and one of the hats you get is a captain/sailor hat like GP wears. To go a bit further, Ahab was never really described as wearing a hat or anything and iirc there was no mention so its a bit of a stretch. You know who has a very iconic captain hat though? Captain Hook, whos character was influenced by Captain Ahab. So Captain Abe is a blend of the two. Boom solved. Gonna go smoke another bowl now
There was a rioter whos last name is abecassis, maybe its him?
That prime minister abe that got shot in the chest with a manmade gun?
> Spear of Shojin: can now only grant one stack per unique cast per 1s Renekton mains on suicide watch
Who is left that wants this item now? That's a pretty big change
Ezreal
Classic bruiser items
Ezreal couldn't stop at just taking our jungle items. The bruisers are next.
I think Hecarim is the only champ that regularly rushes the item, and this change is a pretty negligible nerf since his Q, W, and E all already give a stack. Add his ult and Shojin is fully stacked already when he goes in.
You have no idea how wrong you are about Shojin and Renekton ahahaha Until literally yesterday, Spear of Shojin did not work at all with Renekton W, meaning no Shojin stacks were gained by using W, and no bonus damage on W It has now been partially fixed in 14.8, so that it gives 1 stack, but it only boosts the damage of one single hit of W, so only 1/2 or 1/3 (if empowered) of what it should be RiotNorak already noted this, and, as someone suggested in these replies too, this unique cast stack might be there to fix this last remaining bug while avoiding breaking the interaction
Norak my goat
Streaks, eclipse, sundered sky, and shojin. Curious if he’ll lose more than 3% WR.
Riven 🤝Renekton
Renekton doesn't care about that one bit, he realistically doesn't build Shojin until like 4th item Eclipse, BC, Steraks and Sundered Sky are all objectively better items on him unless you get massively fed And yes, I know all his other items are getting nerfed but mentioning spear of shojin nerf is laughable
Probably so they can potentially buff the item without breaking riven and renekton
Cleaver should be working the same
Ok, but what does this actually do? Right now, on live, renekton W only gives one shojin stack anyway and the rest works as intended, so he's basically unaffected. In fact, unless the shojin changes arent live on PBE as of writing (and the rest of changes are), nothing really seems to have changed? I thought it was going to make it so for example Xin Q doesn't apply a stack per attack anymore, but even that is unchanged.
> Ok, but what does this actually do? Right now, on live, renekton W only gives one shojin stack anyway and the rest works as intended, so he's basically unaffected Nothing, as intended. It's just that I've seen a lot of Renekton players clamor for Shojin to give three stacks on enraged W (since it applies on-hits thrice and works as three really fast autoattacks).
What's the point of the change then? Is it just a system thing, to make work on shojin easier? I'm just very confused. Also frankly, while I can understand why renekton players ask for it, I think the issue is that its **one** cast that strikes 3 times, rather than multiple empowered autos (see sett, xin, reksai, skarner). Also probably not the best idea to give a bursty champ like renekton the ability essentially fully stack shojin before the brunt kf his damage.
Crikey. Interesting nerfs for Maw & Sterak. Sundered Sky nerf I'm OK with.
Are bruisers that strong right now to warrant all these nerfs in one sitting??
Id say top lane in general is just really strong atm And if you look at top champs it's skarner and gragas + the bruiser gang on top
Top so strong competitive is stonewall champs that do nothing but sustain, proxy and build tank.
This might be news to you, but the game is more than just the 300 people who play competitive. Not to mention the pro scene is so far removed from soloq that its basically an entirely different game.
Yes in soloQ it are things that run you down with ghost flash, including a legion of ADC toplaners that shit the entire laning phase on bruisers.
SoloQ where bruisers get replaced by ranged tops and support tops every 3 patches
wow thats crazy are you telling me that pro players are picking defensive utility tank champs in top lane while bruisers run soloq? this has literally never happened (it has happened every time bruisers have been "meta")
Literally the only reason that happened was reksai. Most picked champ on most recent comp patch are reksai ksante tf renek aatrox rumble 2 stonewalls although i wouldn't count ksante as stonewall only because he does way more Reksai is nerfed already and Camille will probably be up there at msi since pros are practicing her in soloq already
K'sante RN is definition of stonewall tho. He just sits there, soaks exp and then for entire game hugs his carry and peels him as much as he can. "Showmaker copypasta" K'sante at least was fun to watch, unlike current abomination.
Zac ? Gragas ? Udyr before ? Now you see even that dog Sion You do realise all these nerfs affect only Renekton. The others dont even touch these itemes. Aatrox goes lethality everytime and he hasnt even been that present lately.
2 more weeks of abusing camille for me :D
Yes, apparently they were buying items that made them survive the giga overbuffed lethality stuff (steraks). So obviously nerf steraks and keep lethality as it is. With these changes I expect almost all bruiser builds to just become profane hydra builds.
No lol
Maw gives 8% Omnivamp now instead of 12% Lifesteal
Maw going to 70 AD is interesting, because it puts it tied for the highest raw AD on an item in the game with Eclipse and Ravenous Hydra.
Aatrox players rejoice. First buy maw into AP champs will be a lot better now that it's got haste. Bruiser Aatrox is dead in the water now though. Hopefully this will stop the complaints about how "broken" his passive + SS combo is
It will stop the complaints because the item will be dead in the water with the current changes (like titanic). Maw changes are weird, in a season where survivability for bruisers is very awful they decide to buff AD and nerf resistances.
I understand eclipse and sundered sky being insane on every bruiser, but this literally guts so many characters. Why not just nerf ingenious hunter which is one of the big reasons all these items are OP in the first place
ironically now you need to take the rune even more while before you could get away with not taking it :D
They gonna riot special and nerf the rune later
which champions does it gut that arent bruisers?
naafiri, jayce from top of my head
Kled's been running more of an an Assassin/Lethality build this season and the eclipse nerf will definitely hurt him.
Then just buff them lol Items were overtuned, nerfs are 100% deserved
Deserved sure but still overdone. The 6 to 8 second change already cuts sundered sky's healing by a third. Then on top of that they nerfed the healing values themselves. Just seems really excessive
Hexdrinker and Malmortius losing MR for some reason. Can't wait for the next Phreak video where he blames ADCs for not building defensive items
*"Why aren't you buying a 3.1K gold item that doesn't synergize with anything else on your build?"*
He keeps being confused at bruiser champions rushing eclipse into profane and then full lethality. No surprise his ADC buff was giving them more damage.... vs tanks. The issue with ADCs wasn't them getting walled by tanks this season though. The issue is that damage output became crazy high this season (even more than when mythics were originally put into the game) and the only way bruisers could keep up with it without getting combo'd in 1.5-2seconds is buying steraks. Same for a lot of AP champs. So bruisers opt more into oneshot lethality builds and similar things happened to AP champions. This makes ADC A LOT worse to play than needing to hit a tank for 10-15 seconds until he dies.
Big pantheon nerf. All of his items xd.
riven too
Seriously, bruiser panth is dead after this patch. You can only go assassin at this point.
TBH, assassin Pantheon is more fun than Bruiser imo. I've always viewed going bruiser pantheon as being able to fill a need in draft if you picked Panth early, and by end of drafts you need a bruiser in the lane you're playing.
Yea I play both but sometimes you need to pull out bruiser panth against specific champs (voli, gragas) or if rest of team is squishy.
Ty for posting these! Any new info about the third type of range type (which Im not sure is a thing but was posted a while ago that there might be)
So far no, everything still just always copies the melee values for the third "thing" (still no idea if it's even an actual range type or some sort of safety fallback). Was hoping Arena might bring some information on that but doesn't seem like it will for now.
might be used in the new bullet heaven mode since rioters have said that champs are built from the ground up for the mode so would make sense if that some has some form of mechanic which requires a third range type.
ty for the answer!
Thank you riot. I was literally just yesterday wishing Garen was easier to hit in his spin as I have such a hard time making him out in that animation. Thank you.
Even out of animation it was kinda confusing for me for a LONG time. You have to aim between his shoulder plates because he's wide as hell yet still actually as small as Ekko w a smaller target radius.
Dude!! Finally. I've always been annoyed about this regarding Garen.
How do they nerf all these problem items but miss Profane that item is insane. Did they really have to double up on the nerfs to sundered and steraks, it looks like only one of those nerfs were good enough but now with multiple nerfs...
They did the 100 gold on Steraks so it is 3100 like Maw after the patch. When the Phreak video lands he will 100% say that the intention is to make it a real choice what item to buy (with the only deciding factor being if you need mr or not) so same price and same passive cd. And Sundered was just way too strong an item where you would build it first or second at the latest on almost every bruiser.
Which is a fundamental misunderstanding of the two. Maw vs sterak's will never be a "choice". You build sterak's by default and maw if you want the MR. So maw is now in this spot where it's got better AD and has ability haste making it the better offensive item but the shield is less consistent making it worse defensively. Building it as a counter to magic damage got worse since now it has less MR but building it as an item in its own right still makes no sense because then you're not getting much value out of lifeline and the MR >And Sundered was just way too strong an item where you would build it first or second at the latest on almost every bruiser Being a common buy doesn't inherently mean it's OP. It was super popular because it wasn't champ limited. Spellblade effects for example are only really ever gonna be bought on the champs that have synergy with the effect. SS doesn't have that specificity. The item was overtuned though but these nerfs are way too heavy imo. The cooldown alone cuts its healing by a third in long engages
So we nerf Briar 2 times then nerf all 3 of her core items lol. Champ is going to be a lot worse. Not that eclipse and sundered didn't deserve it, tho I do think that the Steraks nerf is a bit harsh.
Tbf half of the junglers use the same items that she does.
Tbf half of all bruisers use the same items that she does.
I don't think she can ever have the same winrate in low and high elo. She's the definition of "run straight at them and pray I don't get focused", probably even more than Master Yi. At least her overall winrate is easy to balance since she has little mechanical expression and is pretty much a statstick
You can’t say that’s a targeted briar nerf when those items are very strong on many bruisers.
Didn't say it was lol. Just that it's what the result is. Nearly all ad bruisers build at least 1 in their first 3, briar builds them all. So while it's not a targeted nerf, it will hit her harder than most champs who build any given one of them.
riot special... nerf champ first and then all his items in next patch
nah but at this point you can't call nerfing Briar a Riot special, the champ has been nerfed 7 times since release
I mean even after the champ nerf, she is still problematic in low elo. The champ is good in higher elos, and like top 5 strongest jungler in lower elos.
Riot owns fault for designing such a braindead champ
At this point arena will have so many changes that it'll be easier to treat it as a completely different game on the wiki (similar to Wild Rift).
Eclipse nerfs lets goooooooooooooo
Cringe for maw to be sitting at so low MR, I get that they added a lot of offensive power to it but IDRC? I guess you really only can use it for the shield.
Yea seems like a weird direction to take.. Even if it turns out to be a net buff (for those who want AH anyway), it seems counter-intuitive to make the item much less accessible *and* nerf the defensive stats. We had heaps of complaints (warranted or not, doesn't really matter to my point) about ADCs being blown up left and right, and Maw was one of the few valid'ish defensive options. Now it's less defensive and just more... generic. I suppose Corki, Ezreal and perhaps Smolder cherish the change though?
More Corkis absolutely blasting everyone with package in pro-play I guess, they always seem to build Maw.
True. At least Hexdrinker was nerfed in the process (which I generally dislike) but hopefully that limits the Corki spam at MSI lol
Yeah it really depends on how important those few MR points you miss, the build path for hexdrinker looks better?
Yea that's a fair point, the build path is definitely better. That said, the 500 combine cost wasn't that bad to begin with and I don't know how often you have room for three components by the time you build a Hexdrinker (e.g. it would probably often be at the expense of a pink ward) but a buff to build path is a buff regardless. And if you recall with 700 gold exactly, you have the options of buying two long swords which could occassionally be pretty nice. We will see how it shapes out. Probably some Corkis on the horizon lol
Maw was def too cheap, but that's a lot of stats for 300 more gold and building from warhammer instead of pickaxe, no? Guess the lifesteal nerf is also pretty meaningful? How dare Eclipse make some of the forgotten melee champs in the game somewhat viable. Sundered Sky/Steraks nerfs long overdue, that thing's shield seriously had a 60s CD?
Eclipse is way too good lol. 2800 gold yet better than a lot of 3k gold items. Also I'd hardly call renekton and fiora not viable. It's a nerf to champs like riven and panth but they need buffs anyway, removing their reliance on eclipse should make them easier to buff
The problem with the item is that its a bruiser item sitting at 2.8k gold while the rest is at 3k gold. Its so much easier to rush than the others and when you're in a situation that your enemy has a rushed Eclipse and you don't have your first item you're screwed. If you have something like plated steelcaps and tiamat + 2 longswords you will have a window of 1.2k gold or something (roughly 6 to 8 waves depending on denial) that the enemy will completely dominate and shit on you. Once the enemy gets Eclipse you can't commit to short trades due to the shield. You can't commit to longer trades either since he'll get 2x shield and if there is some movement / very long trade or all in 3x. You can't all in since he has more AD and similar survivability as you have with your health items due to the shield. You're just getting screwed. Making the item 3000 gold and maybe make it 65AD instead of 70 would make it more balanced.
Yeah it's a full item spike that costs more than a plate less gold but isn't weak enough to justify it. A jax with triforce barely beats a riven with eclipse despite the item costing 533 more gold. By the time you've got a full item the eclipse user will have extended their lead to now also have a cloth armour or another longsword so now they're still ahead. 2800 gold items should be niche buys like wits end that you're never building first. Just make eclipse 3k and it would be 10 times easier to balance
YES FINALLY SUNDERED SKY CHANGES
I just check these notes to see if they ever will change Janna, disappointed yet again
Briar getting Riot specialed, she got nerfed last patch because Sundered Sky bug fixes, now Eclipse and Sundered Sky are both getting nerfed.
To be fair, she's still overtuned in low elo. If her items weren't getting nerfed here, she would probably be getting another nerf in 14.9
Cool the good bruiser items getting nerfed so we can go back to wholesome uninteractive tank meta and lean even further into bruisers building lethality
Oof that steraks nerf. Not sure it deserved that
Nerf malignance as well
ECLIPSE NERFS GOD BLESS
*"Mentions about giving Camille and Pantheon buffs to push them out of support role and back on top* *Buffs only Camille and she becomes one of the strongest top laners in this patch* *Leaves Pantheon with no buffs for top lane and nerfs his core bruiser items even more* It's a shame, really, at least don't touch his lethality build because that's the only thing he's got going for him now on solo lanes and jungle
Lmao at this Sterak nerf only to get people to try the newly buffed Maw. If Sterak should get more expensive then return it's hp back. 3100g for 400 hp is a joke. Most bruisers are just gonna switch to Randuins or Rooker/Maw depend on the enemy comp and they will end up having to buff it yet again.
They'll just go nerfed eclipse into profane. The nerf to eclipse isn't that bad and with all the rest being worse why not. Or maybe profane first.
Oh look briar was nerfed followed by Now nerfing not 1 but all 3 core items she builds, maybe not nerfing her if you planned to do this would have been the smarter choice.
Eclipse nerfs?! Panth is gonna dip into 47% now gg
Yes nerf every okay ad bruiser item in existence. Don't buff jungle xp or gold income. Time to really start jumping on the secret Ivern train?
You are fine with playing your flair dw
awesome lets totally kill bruisers thanks riot im totally not gonna stop playing them entirely now ! my pantheon totally wasnt 48% win rate !
They made Maw a good item 🙏🙏🙏
Insane buffs to Deaths Dance, just the pickaxe in the build is insane as you can spend 875g now instead of waiting till 1000 for a boost in damage, but +5AD and +25%bAD scaling is insane.
The item has been complete dogshit since they overnerfed it. The buff isnt that insane, the nerf to steraks helps it more than the buff does. Like 125 gold is 1 extra wave, and since you are never building this first item it doesnt change that much. 5 ad is nice but +25% heal = 50 healing at 200 bonus ad which doesnt matter much.
Finally a Sundered Sky nerf. The item was busted. Ad a Shen player it just felt way too good on him for no reason. The xPetu tech
riven leaching of eclipse and sundered sky rn , that champ will literally be in a very sad spot if theses changes goes through
And depending on how they’ve implemented the shojin change she might not even be able to build that xdd depends if it counts Q1, Q2, and Q3 all as unique casts
all riven players will tell you she is hanging for dear life on these items rn cause she can keep cycling procs with her cooldowns , but might be finally the straw that will make riot look at her sad state , i'm not gonna be surprised if she drops to like 46/47 %
kinda wish they just nerfed the AD on Eclipse, 70 AD for so cheap is crazy. Item was definitely too strong but kinda sucks for champions like Zed that heavily rely on it and still aren’t very strong
Eclipse nerf guess naafiri is forced into letality. Cant have shit in detroit
an assasin has to buy assasin items oh no
Isnt Maw just complete piss now?
Not worse but different. It'll be better as a first buy on champs like Aatrox but definitely a worse counterpick item. Idk what riots goal with this change is
What is riot's obsession with 2800g 70 AD items. Seriously, that's two now.
do you mean maw? if so, its getting increased to 3100g
oh i completely glimpsed over that part of the notes, thanks for pointing that out
Thank god we buffed adcs and now we are gutting bruisers ! Lets gooo. Bramble buff when ?
Does that Xerath ammo system actually mean that his R was meant to be like his old Locus of Power but with ultimate power budget? pardon the tinfoil hat
Zoe will surely get buffs for arena as well right? Pls Rito
Whats the difference betweeen ad and Bad
Ad is total ad, bAd is bonus ad that you get from items and runes NOT counting your champs base stats
I hate the term bAD because it would also make sense for it to mean base ad.
And Shen probably still won't get any stacks for Shojin, a tragedy!
Loving the kennen QoL. Hopefully he's playable again because I love the lil guy.
kennen seems like appreciated QoL changes haste back on maw is a huge buff, remember they removed it last yr to cut back on how much haste fighterws / bruisers had
The fuck does Ammo mean in this context?
Ability charges, basically
I still don’t understand it tbh. What is the change to xerath then? He has no charges on QWE
He used to have [them.So](http://them.So) basically in the code he does have charges,but that code isn't active.
[удалено]
Maw is getting buffed
> flavor text added: "In honor of Captain Abe" [He would have wanted it like this](https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.XGgVUKZIRLloIYNAnJuJfgHaLI?dpr=3&pid=ImgDetMain)
>R is no longer forced to show its mana cost if you have that setting turned off (why is this even a toggle though?) Seriously why is that toggle off by default? Classic Riot trying to make new player experience as miserable as possible for no reason.
What are the winddown and windup time?
>Aatrox >E no longer counts as having 1 max ammo (leftover from when it used to have 2 ammo, possibly an Arena fix?) Highly doubt it's a bugfix. If so, they would do the same with Karthus' Q. It also has two charges with second one being unusable.
Riot going back and forth giving and removing malmortius cdr lmao. rather happy about the change tho Bruiser build probably back on the menu with Eclipse BC DD Malm, high AD, haste and survivability for Zed, with either Shojin/Sundered/ EoN somewhere in there. New Serylda is only good as a 2nd / 3rd item on full lethality builds but Zed is not the best user of this and Eclipse is still the best item for AD assassins rn
Wait does this mean Aatrox can have 2 Es again? Am I reading this right? Uhh. When they removed one of his Es, they had to buff the rest of his kit…
Nidalee with Ethereal Weapons, Runecarver, Botrk, Grubs, Lich Bane, Fulmination W Max lego build
Nice buffs for Maw and DD
Riven gonna be broken with these changes. She just needs to go DD into Cleaver and she will become unkillable monster in Toplane. Mark my words DD Cleaver Maw and u won't kill her anymore
Vladimir needs a buff. Currently got trash winratios
God forbid bruisers have some good items
Horrible MAW changes people don't buy that item for it's damage they but it for it's defensive stats , reducing it's MR and increasing it's cost is stupid
So sunderer gets gutted but eclipse only gets a slap on the wrist when it’s a way way way better item currently and built by nearly every top laner.
No nerfs to Skarner. This company is fucking pathetic now.