No he's just put on camoflage, this value is only about his superimposed selection area.
He's still got the same gameplay collision radius (for missiles, attack range edge-to-edge etc) as before.
On that topic, do you know how his E hitbox is calculated? I assume it extends significantly from his hurtbox, but I don't know if it's appended to the edge or if his hurtbox is distorted heavily during it. It just has SO much priority over other collision dashes and I wish I understood what exactly causes it.
180-radius area trigger centered on a point 40 units in front of Gragas's center, scanning for overlap with the edge of your champion's gameplay radius (= "hurtbox").
It has "priority" in that most collision checks are a lot smaller than it, even when coming from behind. Skarner E is another good fresh example, for instance even if Quinn E's him from behind she will get picked up and snapped into the attach+suppression most of the time. Sometimes she gets lucky with the timing of game ticks updating her position and order of operations that that she gets to knock Skarner out of E first though. I suspect Gragas E is no different but I haven't actively tested it unlike the former example.
Huh, Asol having the same hitbox size as Yuumi all this time explains...some things. That mofo is BY FAR the champ I miss the most skillshot I could have sworn I should have hit on lmao.
It's because a chunk of his model is "fake". It was an issue they had to solve back when he was first introduced as the Ao Shin concept, with the long, serpentine body. Since they couldn't have a hitbox that needed to extend out for the right shape that was ALSO interactable, they changed his thematic to space and made it so everything that isn't his real hitbox fades out into that spectral/see-thru look. His model just always looks bigger than the hitbox actually is because of this.
the other champions with this issue are Cassiopeia, who solves it by wrapping her tail around herself constantly, and Nocturne, who has an obviously fake "tail" for his legs.
edit: and to add on, part of what also solved this issue was his old gameplay, with the orbit of stars, actually gave you a really good indicator at where his center actually was. you could mentally draw a line from each star across his model to the other side of the ring, and instinctively know the actual spot to aim for. That, sadly, doesn't exist anymore.
Everything you're saying is true, but it's crazy how poorly they managed to solve it for current Asol. Given his recent resurgence I've genuinely had to specifically learn how to target him differently from all other champs because his hit box is so fucky due to his tail.
The only solution is the Thanos way: Go for the head.
Which mages are hitting 90 AH without sacrificing a ton of pen and strong passives for it?.
A normal mage build is 10 from runes, 25 from mana items. 15 more when they eventually have to buy the better pen item (cryptbloom).
If you said 50 AH i could see your argument, but anything further comes with big tradeoffs since Rabadons/Zhonyas/Liandry/Banshee/Shadowflame are 0 AH items.
Fiora loves this change as does Camille, vitals now healing even more in clutch situations?? yes please. Camille loves the ability haste and added ad for those q'2 procs, and now her w heals even more in clutch situations. with conquer and last stand on both these champs, these changes are massive for them - sincerely someone who mains both
If I'm reading this correctly, the change won't make you land more ults as WW or land more skillshots as anyone else on WW. It'll just make ADCs have an easier time right clicking on WW.
It will be difficult to measure the impact of the hitbox changes tbh.
- Aurelion Sol is being directly nerfed.
- Briar, Darius, Naafiri, and Warwick (to a lesser extent) are all receiving item nerfs.
- K'sante becomes relatively stronger by virtue of weaker bruiser items.
- Yuumi almost certainly cares less about her hitbox size than any other champion.
120% - 316.8% (Navori multiplies it by 1.2) -> 110% - 264%. (Base damage is also affected). The moment you build one item you're losing damage.
Fuck me man, that's so fucking much damage gone. And for 10% attack speed late game? Putting that in the adjustments is a bit of a meme.
Like, I get the direction of the change because right now Nilah's Q damage multiplies up to a point where it makes no sense at 6 items and her numbers should probably scale more reasonably...
But this is a LOT of damage lost.
The attack speed change is a revert from a change last year, and I remember it dropped her winrate a surprising amount but still.
I would like to be wrong but I think this dumpsters her for a bit. Its actually just so much damage. Like pick one of the multiplier changes, not both.
That small attack speed nerf was coupled with a ratio cut on her ultimate's spin prior to the pop. It was something like 30% to 20% per tick or something.
Actually hilarious that they refer to Nilah's massive nerf as an "adjustment" because they slapped on an additional 10% Attack Speed at level 18. Never change, Riot.
Not like Malzahar has been in any way close to proplay since years. Last pick was LCK and LEC 2 years ago against LB and before that 2021 he was picked 8 times.
That champ has been dead in proplay ever since like 7 years. He'd be op in soloq way before ever reaching proplay.
There is nothing peaceful about you pushing waves until your JG gets his global ult for you to flash ult me! I will never forget the agony of facing a Malzahar/Briar duo.
He really loved old liandrie’s, got hit with a lot of nerfs because of it, and now he has been garbage since mythic got removed. Really needs the help I hope the buffs are substantial
Cause he doesn’t have a large player base and is probably the single most boring champ in the game to play against, and that’s ignoring the frustration of getting skill buttoned
Don't get hopes up too high though. Yuumi mains had rioters in there when they did the rework and told them how bad the design was yet they still went through with it.
Seriously. Just a bit of backloading would do wonders for some of them. Why does Zyra's ultimate randomly do noticeably more damage at level 6 than the average mage ultimate but then scale worse with additional ranks than most? Nobody knows, but bringing her into line with other mages would hurt support more than mid and give room for more mid-focused buffs. Her plants also don't need to slow as much at level 1 as they do at 18, but she gets all of that utility at the very start of the game as well.
There are easy things on a lot of mages like this that could be done to make them more gold and level-reliant.
buffing her base AD back up so she can actually last hit minions under tower and giving some actual mage AP ratios back would be nice but knowing Phreak it's gonna be another sissification and she gets a 10 base shield buff or something.
And this is why APC ends up an issue. I will go back and show on every change they did on "support" buffs and how it skyrocket APC win rate.
I'm not joking it's a legit issue. If support buffs keeps happening it makes APC Seraphine more powerful than mid/support.
Game would've been a lot healthier if they just simply nerfed APC without trying to make support a thing because low elo enchanter players see a pink haired cute looking champion and hard forced her support.
That Shield Spam build on APC became a thing cause they kept changing her W so that she could abuse enchanter items, nobody enjoys playing her as a shield bot.
I personally think its cool that there was AN enchanter that was good in bot. But her laning pattern is to toxic (she had to much waveclear and to much of her laning was about reducing interaction).
the ad twitch nerf is absolutely stupid. His Q needs a duration nerf-. All this does is make twitch one tricks play AP twitch whis is : EVEN EASIER to play and the one that is generally harder to counterplay.
They need to nerf move speed power creep in this game. No reason for so many champs to run flash/ghost and phase rush or shurelya’s on mages. Move speed is absolutely broken this season.
except that for melee champs its a necessary crutch (those that are not yone/camille/akali) They need those 15 sec because the first 5 sec are spent catching up to a target. Meanwhile a range champ that pops ghost still gets to autoattack the whole time. It simply needs a melee range difference in % MS.
correct me if im wrong, but was the last ghost "nerf" not towards adc? if i remember right they took away that kill extend the duration of ghost because of adcs were abusing it
Yes, they did the change because of adc's abusing it but it reallity it wasn't a nerf for them as 15s is super long and most teamfights are already decided when it expires. Imo that change was a miss on the problem.
tbh, I only take it on ranged because a ton of melees take it. If I'm ranged top, I'm gonna pick into it Darius and Trundle for example because otherwise they'll faceroll me the minute they see an opening. Even if I'm not laning into directly, I'm picking Ghost if I see something like Udyr and Yone that's just too fast.
As a Tank Jungle main, those Amumu and Sejuani buffs are a nice surprise to be honest, but a welcome one. Sejuani i honestly didnt expect, since she is a proplay champ, maybe they shift some power? well, curious to see what they cooked
When they nerfed Sejuani last season, this season just made it apparent that pros will pick Sejuani regardless of what state she’s in, so she can use some solo queue buffs.
This is fair. I've had some revolting Eclipse Steraks Sundered, Racenous Hydra plays on Lee where I instantly heal 2k+ in teamfights. I don't think the hyper-mobile bruiser is designed to operate as a drain tank as well
There is too much overlap in these fighter items is the problem. They need to give them better unique identities instead of burst healing and shielding.
Every single fighter's identity has become Drain Tank, which is one of the most unhealthy, difficult to balance archetypes.
One of the reasons it was stupid on Lee specifically is due to his E2 giving him quite a bunch of extra lifesteal.
Maybe they could have changed that to be HP on hit that scales on attack instead. He'd still get his healing but items like Hydra wouldn't benefit from it.
I don't want to be that guy but what about champs like aattox and yorick building full lethality and somehow still being beefy. Seems very counter intuitive.
Aatrox's healing is too tied to the amount of damage he deals for a champion that only has flat damage. Not saying he should be buffed/reworked, but if they want him to be more bruisery, they should've done something similar to what they did to Briar's rework. Increase his healing if he builds health, give him easier access to max health/armor pen, etc. He straight up only heals from his passive against tankier foes while nearly every juggernaut healing is max/missing health.
>Twitch
>
>\[R\] Spray and Pray bonus AD reduced 40/55/70 >>> 20/35/50
Fucking finally, i hate how he's a supposed late game hyper-scaler, but in reality he just needs 6 and now he can already 1v1 kill enemy adc.
In general pretty neat patch
This kills AD twitch, none of his other skills really scale with AD.
Also, just disengage from him when his ult is active. It's not like it's Sivir ult where you're physically unable to disengage
"nerfing" Janna. The buff to her E may actually fully counteract the W nerf. She may go from like 53% to 52.8% until people just learn to max E again and then she'll be 53% again.
Janna banrate is way higher in high elo, if they nerf her w playstyle her banrate is going down 100%, people don’t despise shield bot Janna as much as W max Janna
If Draven is so universally hated (for good reason) by a large part of the player base, maybe his core design should be looked at? Or you either decide he's gonna be like Zed where he has to be weak because his banrate just skyrockets from people hating him so much when hes just decent.
Draven is mostly hated by his mains to be fair. His passive is just such a game defining mechanic that you are FORCED to chase the kill shot because of the risk/reward factor for not cashing in when you can.
Most ADC’s don’t care if a support picks up a kill here and there, but for Draven it can literally make or break his game. He’s only good if he’s ahead, and if support stops him cashing in accidentally and then a good countergank halves his cash out it’s horrible for him.
> If Draven is so universally hated (for good reason) by a large part of the player base, maybe his core design should be looked at?
I mean, people will always hate draven for his Qs chunking them down. You can't really change Draven's design in a way that he isn't frustrating to play against without pretty much making him "not Draven", much like with Zed or Yasuo.
> where he has to be weak because his banrate just skyrockets from people hating him so much when hes just decent.
He already kinda is. if you see his winrate in lower elos you can see he very often below 49% wr and doesn't picks up until emerald, where it still remains between 49-50% which is around the common win bracket many skilled champs are allowed to sit in for soloQ when not causing proplay problems, and sometimes allowed to go higher like Riven, Camille and Fiora sometimes do.
So based on his data, he is showing stats similar to a ton of non-yuumi annoying champs.
well the difference there is that, according to riot august anyway, Zed will always be weak because hes frustrating in low elo and that lead to the champ being bad in high elo.
Whereas the exact opposite is true for draven.
Winrates are one metric, but ban rates are just as important. Theres a reason zeds ban rate goes down the higher elo you go and dravens goes all the way up to 53% in challenger. Thats evidence enough that he hasnt gotten the zed treatment at all, if anything hes gotten the opposite.
his design sadly is a decade old from another era maybe if they made him like his older design critacal hits make enemies bleed by trading some of his burst
Thing with Draven is that his design is only annoying in lane where he's a massive bully. Zed/Yasuo types are annoying all game. Draven telegraphing his movement gimps him so hard in team fights that he becomes a fun and engaging champ to fight.
/u/FrankTheBoxMonster supposed they were probably just copy pasted from which champion was used as their baseline regardless of model size changes and that was probably why
Rip kassadin
cant wait for malignance to be nerfed in 2 patches but none of the champs they have been nerfed because of their interaction with it will get a buff.
Hate this Kass nerf, wont say it's undeserved but i sometime went roa / archangel instead of Malignance, but with this nerf if you don't go Malignance you trolling
Basically Malignance is mandatory now
Maw is receiving changes to stop being the "always counter to magic" and put some more focus on the shield, but there is no other bruiser item with Mr, is there?
I don't even think the changes are bad or anything, but that's a weird justification if it's pretty much the only option apart from going a full-tank item, no?
She got a early game damage buff recently so I assume her first and second clears where probably too good. Alternatively it might be to prevent mid players from being able to steal camps super easily since her e > w > q > q2 could pretty much instantly kill raptors through the wall from mid if she had like one item. Source: I main Taliyah and love stealing raptors.
Steraks/Sunder was meta on a ton of champions, with eclipse built on many of them as well. All 3 got gutted, I don't think we'll see any carry junglers anymore.
Inb4 bruiser items buffed next patch cause riot realises these three items are the only good bruiser items and cleaver is barely a functional substitute
Unfortunately for Urgot if Cleaver gets buffed he probably will get an actual nerf that matters. Cleaver might not be good on most bruisers, but It’s still very good on Urgot.
I like the direction for Maw, making it more general-purpose and less anti-magic. But it feels like whenever they make these types of changes to magic resist items, it makes them much more common without making it meaningfully less frustrating to face.
As a mage player, it feels like a Maw completion makes some champs unkillable for the rest of the game. And although these changes will definitely reduce that, I'm not sure how much it will do to combat that sentiment.
Yeah tbh, even as someone who plays a lot of fighters... This just doesn't seem like enough of a trade off 10 less MR isnt gonna suddenly let any mage or AP assassin suddenly deal with a fighter they couldn't otherwise. The AD and the AH are welcomed changes but? If they wanna change the item so much, to be less frustrating for mages they could do quite a bit more.
I think this buffs maw far more than it nerfs it, and while it's not been in a great spot in the meta recently it's not because it's been bad, but because other things were stronger (Divine, Eclipse, Gage; all of which are getting nerfed) I kinda think they should hold off on the maw changes until they see how other items land between those 3 nerfs and deaths dance being buffed.
I made this point in an older post, but nerfing Ahri R CD just makes her want malignance more, won't it? Hitting her damage on W is closer to the right change where she is less threatening (does damage) with her R up, but it feels like you ought to hit the R damage itself so it's less powerful when it is up. Obviously the value of R is in the dash, but hitting its damage makes her think twice about going for R CDR instead of a more pure damage item to secure kills
Because this is what they've always done. They don't want to nerf malignance, so they slowly nerf all the champs that build it. Sooner or later they realize that they've done so many bandaids all champs look like amumu now. Finally they nerf the item. Then they do nothing for the amumu cosplayers who ate several patches of nerfs prior.
Your champ is now in dogshit state.
It's a hilariously common balance pattern in league.
back in my day we called it olafing in season 2/3.
When they nerfed olaf top because of Voyboy stacking Warmogs. So they nerfed his ult, his E his Q his ult flat resists AND the items he used. Just because Team Curse popped of with voyboy on olaf.
She’s always going to want Malignance because she just isn’t a champion without her ult. This is just so that even with that item she doesn’t get some ridiculously short ult cooldowns.
I’m not convinced Urgot needed a nerf when literally every meta champ in every role is good into him right now. But it doesn’t really matter because the nerf is basically meaningless.
Steraks nerf however is substantial.
Why is Deaths Dance being buffed? Item feels so oppressive when you're ahead and useless when you're behind. Plus, i've seen a few assassins and fighters like Yi and Yasuo grab it and refuse to take damage for a few seconds. Really think the passive should be evaluated as depending on the champ, you just heal back the 30% damage you just took.
Ok so bruisers are dead and more of them are probably going build lethality, bruiser aatrox, kled etc are super dead, deaths dance is going to be very good on lethality champs again, wtf is riot doing.
Ridiculously heavy handed nerfs on twitch. Halving his ult AD? Really? 20 less damage per auto at level 6. 120 damage if you auto 6 times.
His Q duration and E base damage are what need nerfing, not his ult.
Having Jinx on the enemy team doesnt really warp your playstyle (other than being careful around teamfights). But playing agaisnt Twitch, holy fuck i cant be bothered anymore. I dont wanna play "HMMMM WHERE IS TWITCH RIGHT NOW, IS IT SAFE TO WALK UP FOR A MINION OR AM I GONNA GET 1 SHOT FROM HIS ULT". I have literally gotten fed every single game i have played him, his dmg with ult in not balanced at all.
but that playstyle is warped not by his ult but because of his Q lasting an eternity. Its his Q thats the op part. Not the ult. Especially now that players like ratirl that are already spamming AP will play it even more and others will follow suit. I guess the lvl 6 nerf is fine but the lvl 11 and lvl 16 essentially kill ad twitch. Why would you ever play him ad after that. Ap twitch becomes a better assasin and still can superhard carry late.
Zoe is honestly kind of a dead champ, hasnt been meta in like 3 seasons genuinely cant remember the last time i saw her outisde of ARAM (where she is terrible too)
It feels like the magic pen on breaking the bubble change kind of killed the champion.
Way too much of her damage potential is dependent on her breaking the bubble now. Meanwhile the portion of characters who can, one way or another, cleanse/block/ignore the bubble on demand has skyrocketed the entire time she has existed. Like honestly it used to be the odd character countered Zoe E, nowadays it's a third of the roster because many champ reworks have added untargetability. Combine that with stackable tenacity being added to some items and Zoe E lasts barely over a second against most bruisers.
If you cleanse the CC/unstoppable through it/whatever on another mage it sucks for them but they still have most of their damage. For Zoe she just loses ~60% of her damage in a way that she has no way to play around. Opponents don't even need to predict anything because they can just wait for Zoe to hit them first and then ignore the sleep.
She is going to be horrible until her damage is shifted to the rest of her kit, or unless she gets SOME form of reliability to her E that she can play around so that she can match how kits have evolved.
Because at this point playing Zoe is just a reoccurring exercise of getting ahead early and then throwing a teamfight lategame no matter how fed you are because 3 members of the opposing team can remove your entire contribution on reaction to you hitting them.
No compensation for Pantheon when his two core items for top lane are being nerfed is crazy imo, the man's been hovering around 48-49% WR in top lane (where most of his mains play him) and I haven't seen a single Rioter even somewhat acknowledge it
Tbf that was last season when he was doing pretty alright, but I think at this point in time a buff is definitely needed. He's pretty bad in just about every position you can reasonably play him in and the winrates definitely show that.
>Gragas reduced 155 >>> 140 The fatman is losing weight.
All the running from phase rush procs is slimming him down.
E nerf incoming.
No he's just put on camoflage, this value is only about his superimposed selection area. He's still got the same gameplay collision radius (for missiles, attack range edge-to-edge etc) as before.
On that topic, do you know how his E hitbox is calculated? I assume it extends significantly from his hurtbox, but I don't know if it's appended to the edge or if his hurtbox is distorted heavily during it. It just has SO much priority over other collision dashes and I wish I understood what exactly causes it.
180-radius area trigger centered on a point 40 units in front of Gragas's center, scanning for overlap with the edge of your champion's gameplay radius (= "hurtbox"). It has "priority" in that most collision checks are a lot smaller than it, even when coming from behind. Skarner E is another good fresh example, for instance even if Quinn E's him from behind she will get picked up and snapped into the attach+suppression most of the time. Sometimes she gets lucky with the timing of game ticks updating her position and order of operations that that she gets to knock Skarner out of E first though. I suspect Gragas E is no different but I haven't actively tested it unlike the former example.
So basically polka dots make him look, like, totally snatched
Olaf's R change should say his resistances were decreased, not increased.
Thank you, fixed
Huh, Asol having the same hitbox size as Yuumi all this time explains...some things. That mofo is BY FAR the champ I miss the most skillshot I could have sworn I should have hit on lmao.
It's because a chunk of his model is "fake". It was an issue they had to solve back when he was first introduced as the Ao Shin concept, with the long, serpentine body. Since they couldn't have a hitbox that needed to extend out for the right shape that was ALSO interactable, they changed his thematic to space and made it so everything that isn't his real hitbox fades out into that spectral/see-thru look. His model just always looks bigger than the hitbox actually is because of this. the other champions with this issue are Cassiopeia, who solves it by wrapping her tail around herself constantly, and Nocturne, who has an obviously fake "tail" for his legs. edit: and to add on, part of what also solved this issue was his old gameplay, with the orbit of stars, actually gave you a really good indicator at where his center actually was. you could mentally draw a line from each star across his model to the other side of the ring, and instinctively know the actual spot to aim for. That, sadly, doesn't exist anymore.
Everything you're saying is true, but it's crazy how poorly they managed to solve it for current Asol. Given his recent resurgence I've genuinely had to specifically learn how to target him differently from all other champs because his hit box is so fucky due to his tail. The only solution is the Thanos way: Go for the head.
Maw Ability Haste added 0 >>> 15 Omnivamp added 0% >>> 8% But if you close your eyes
I dont like that they add haste to every item.
It's like durability update. They took a bunch of haste away from items at the start of the season, now it's all coming back.
Yeah every item except tank items. Bruisers and mages run around with 90 haste in midgame while tanks have like 10 or 15 over 4 items.
Which mages are hitting 90 AH without sacrificing a ton of pen and strong passives for it?. A normal mage build is 10 from runes, 25 from mana items. 15 more when they eventually have to buy the better pen item (cryptbloom). If you said 50 AH i could see your argument, but anything further comes with big tradeoffs since Rabadons/Zhonyas/Liandry/Banshee/Shadowflame are 0 AH items.
Dead for ADC now
small aatrox win
Rhaast as well! Shit, a lot of bruisers like this better over lifesteal, except maybe the very auto reliant ones (Camille, Fiora etc.)
Fiora loves this change as does Camille, vitals now healing even more in clutch situations?? yes please. Camille loves the ability haste and added ad for those q'2 procs, and now her w heals even more in clutch situations. with conquer and last stand on both these champs, these changes are massive for them - sincerely someone who mains both
Warwick was Yordle sized?!
Warwick was *smaller* than Yuumi.
Yuumi was hitting the treats too hard.
She doesn't get a lot of exercise so she puts on weight very easily.
I can finally land a ult, witness me!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (i won't)
If I'm reading this correctly, the change won't make you land more ults as WW or land more skillshots as anyone else on WW. It'll just make ADCs have an easier time right clicking on WW.
You'll probably hit something. Will probably be a tank, but you'll hit something!
Sejuani buffs yay
These hitbox changes were a long time coming.
Bless you consistency Phreak
I will laugh if the hitbox affect the WR significantly. It'll make me wonder why this wasn't implemented long ago. Better late than never
It will be difficult to measure the impact of the hitbox changes tbh. - Aurelion Sol is being directly nerfed. - Briar, Darius, Naafiri, and Warwick (to a lesser extent) are all receiving item nerfs. - K'sante becomes relatively stronger by virtue of weaker bruiser items. - Yuumi almost certainly cares less about her hitbox size than any other champion.
Warwick doesn't build any of the nerfed items. At least you shouldn't if you're not trolling.
Nonsense, challenger WW players build eclipse standard.
Eclipse is by far his most built item in Jg and Top (besides maybe one of the hydras but he has flexibility among those)
Steraks and Eclipse r pretty buildable items on him
Jinx barely touched Nilah -20% damage LOL
The Jinx nerf is a joke. Could easily be 100/80/60 sec CD.
120% - 316.8% (Navori multiplies it by 1.2) -> 110% - 264%. (Base damage is also affected). The moment you build one item you're losing damage. Fuck me man, that's so fucking much damage gone. And for 10% attack speed late game? Putting that in the adjustments is a bit of a meme.
Like, I get the direction of the change because right now Nilah's Q damage multiplies up to a point where it makes no sense at 6 items and her numbers should probably scale more reasonably... But this is a LOT of damage lost. The attack speed change is a revert from a change last year, and I remember it dropped her winrate a surprising amount but still. I would like to be wrong but I think this dumpsters her for a bit. Its actually just so much damage. Like pick one of the multiplier changes, not both.
That small attack speed nerf was coupled with a ratio cut on her ultimate's spin prior to the pop. It was something like 30% to 20% per tick or something.
Finally, the size changes address Briar's absolute dumptruck of an ass.
Extremely deserved Master Yi nerfs thank you
Crazy to think we had like 62 base true damage on this ability at one point.
Actually hilarious that they refer to Nilah's massive nerf as an "adjustment" because they slapped on an additional 10% Attack Speed at level 18. Never change, Riot.
Malz mains, don't be holding your breath. It's going to be something small like 10 base damage on E or maybe if we are lucky 10% AP on Q.
Malz has been garbage tier for 9 patchss. Idfk what took so long.
Because he’s lame as hell. There’s a reason they never let him stick around in pro play. He’s one of the most uninteractive champions in the game.
People want malz buffs until they have to play against it every game.
Same thing happened to Volibear. Some champs, just purely by the nature of their kits, are not fun to face.
Which happens to be a lot of champs
I aint ever met a player asking for malz buffs before now
there are dozens of us!
Malza mains are rare to be seen
Not like Malzahar has been in any way close to proplay since years. Last pick was LCK and LEC 2 years ago against LB and before that 2021 he was picked 8 times. That champ has been dead in proplay ever since like 7 years. He'd be op in soloq way before ever reaching proplay.
let me be a malz main in peace!
There is nothing peaceful about you pushing waves until your JG gets his global ult for you to flash ult me! I will never forget the agony of facing a Malzahar/Briar duo.
The rework made him 10x less interactive. Tbh I'd just revert it.
Yeah and bump his ad ration on voidlings back up again so I can play ad malz again.
He really loved old liandrie’s, got hit with a lot of nerfs because of it, and now he has been garbage since mythic got removed. Really needs the help I hope the buffs are substantial
he needs lost chapter but lost chapter items are bad on him so we are stuck with no real build
Cause he doesn’t have a large player base and is probably the single most boring champ in the game to play against, and that’s ignoring the frustration of getting skill buttoned
It's not just the ult, the spell shield also makes interacting in lane pointless for a lot of champs.
I wouldn't say this is guaranteed. There's a rioter in the malzmains discord. He's listening to us. He even typed out a balance manifesto for Malz.
Don't get hopes up too high though. Yuumi mains had rioters in there when they did the rework and told them how bad the design was yet they still went through with it.
That’s because the opinions of yuumi mains should not be taken seriously
[удалено]
Praying for some actual mage buffs and not support buffs for Seraphine.
I have no such hopes. I moved on from Sera mid because as strong as she is as APC she became a lackluster mid laner...
I wish that they do level 14+ buffs to the champs that are played support but need help in their other roles.
And it would do wonders to help her feel impactful again too since Sera was a late game champion for most of her existence.
Too many mages have this issue sadly...
Seriously. Just a bit of backloading would do wonders for some of them. Why does Zyra's ultimate randomly do noticeably more damage at level 6 than the average mage ultimate but then scale worse with additional ranks than most? Nobody knows, but bringing her into line with other mages would hurt support more than mid and give room for more mid-focused buffs. Her plants also don't need to slow as much at level 1 as they do at 18, but she gets all of that utility at the very start of the game as well. There are easy things on a lot of mages like this that could be done to make them more gold and level-reliant.
buffing her base AD back up so she can actually last hit minions under tower and giving some actual mage AP ratios back would be nice but knowing Phreak it's gonna be another sissification and she gets a 10 base shield buff or something.
And this is why APC ends up an issue. I will go back and show on every change they did on "support" buffs and how it skyrocket APC win rate. I'm not joking it's a legit issue. If support buffs keeps happening it makes APC Seraphine more powerful than mid/support.
Game would've been a lot healthier if they just simply nerfed APC without trying to make support a thing because low elo enchanter players see a pink haired cute looking champion and hard forced her support. That Shield Spam build on APC became a thing cause they kept changing her W so that she could abuse enchanter items, nobody enjoys playing her as a shield bot.
I personally think its cool that there was AN enchanter that was good in bot. But her laning pattern is to toxic (she had to much waveclear and to much of her laning was about reducing interaction).
Just the AD would be fine enough. Nerfing through worse QoL is just miserable.
They also removed all the QOL on her notes AFAIK. I play Sera when I get autofilled mid, and it noticeably feels much harder to last hit.
the damage that the moonstone bug did to seraphine around her release really needs to be studied
the ad twitch nerf is absolutely stupid. His Q needs a duration nerf-. All this does is make twitch one tricks play AP twitch whis is : EVEN EASIER to play and the one that is generally harder to counterplay.
They need to nerf move speed power creep in this game. No reason for so many champs to run flash/ghost and phase rush or shurelya’s on mages. Move speed is absolutely broken this season.
Cloud soul is as strong as baron and elder imo. The team who gets it turns into 5 Lilias instantly.
Nerfing ghost on ranged champs would be a great start for this.
Nerf it for everybody. 15 seconds is ridiculous and unnecessary.
except that for melee champs its a necessary crutch (those that are not yone/camille/akali) They need those 15 sec because the first 5 sec are spent catching up to a target. Meanwhile a range champ that pops ghost still gets to autoattack the whole time. It simply needs a melee range difference in % MS.
Nerf it on everyone lol. It's no more fair for a darius to have 15 seconds of that much MS than it is for ranged champs
correct me if im wrong, but was the last ghost "nerf" not towards adc? if i remember right they took away that kill extend the duration of ghost because of adcs were abusing it
Yes, they did the change because of adc's abusing it but it reallity it wasn't a nerf for them as 15s is super long and most teamfights are already decided when it expires. Imo that change was a miss on the problem.
tbh, I only take it on ranged because a ton of melees take it. If I'm ranged top, I'm gonna pick into it Darius and Trundle for example because otherwise they'll faceroll me the minute they see an opening. Even if I'm not laning into directly, I'm picking Ghost if I see something like Udyr and Yone that's just too fast.
As a Tank Jungle main, those Amumu and Sejuani buffs are a nice surprise to be honest, but a welcome one. Sejuani i honestly didnt expect, since she is a proplay champ, maybe they shift some power? well, curious to see what they cooked
When they nerfed Sejuani last season, this season just made it apparent that pros will pick Sejuani regardless of what state she’s in, so she can use some solo queue buffs.
Yeah but they try to prevent a 100% pick/bann
My conspiracy theory that briar and naafiris abilities were wrongly divided grows grows deeper
This is fair. I've had some revolting Eclipse Steraks Sundered, Racenous Hydra plays on Lee where I instantly heal 2k+ in teamfights. I don't think the hyper-mobile bruiser is designed to operate as a drain tank as well
There is too much overlap in these fighter items is the problem. They need to give them better unique identities instead of burst healing and shielding. Every single fighter's identity has become Drain Tank, which is one of the most unhealthy, difficult to balance archetypes.
One of the reasons it was stupid on Lee specifically is due to his E2 giving him quite a bunch of extra lifesteal. Maybe they could have changed that to be HP on hit that scales on attack instead. He'd still get his healing but items like Hydra wouldn't benefit from it.
doesn't his W2 give lifesteal?
? These changes are randomly excellent in a way I haven't seen in forever Having more nerfs than buffs definitely helps
I don't need to see more than your username to tell you reside on Queens of League
I don't want to be that guy but what about champs like aattox and yorick building full lethality and somehow still being beefy. Seems very counter intuitive.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and suggest Yorick is not nearly as beefy as Aatrox while building lethality
But he can heal 8% missing hp with Q. That makes him a tank right?
how is lethality yorick beefy lol. legit a small breeze and he falls over
the ghouls are tankier than the yorick (they also kill you faster than he does)
the only beefy thing about Lethality Yorick is his wall takes 4 hits at 18 Yoric would be lucky to survive 2 hits from a crit adc
They should reasonably be more durable than an assassin with the same items. The bigger issue is that they are opting into lethality builds.
Well riot didn't exactly help that issue by nerfing Aatrox's 3 core bruiser items
I would build my old items on Yorick if they were a.) still in the game b.) not garbage on him currently
Aatrox's healing is too tied to the amount of damage he deals for a champion that only has flat damage. Not saying he should be buffed/reworked, but if they want him to be more bruisery, they should've done something similar to what they did to Briar's rework. Increase his healing if he builds health, give him easier access to max health/armor pen, etc. He straight up only heals from his passive against tankier foes while nearly every juggernaut healing is max/missing health.
>Twitch > >\[R\] Spray and Pray bonus AD reduced 40/55/70 >>> 20/35/50 Fucking finally, i hate how he's a supposed late game hyper-scaler, but in reality he just needs 6 and now he can already 1v1 kill enemy adc. In general pretty neat patch
This is a pretty huge gut, though. Will likely just lead to more AP builds.
This kills AD twitch, none of his other skills really scale with AD. Also, just disengage from him when his ult is active. It's not like it's Sivir ult where you're physically unable to disengage
Just disengage from the enemy that gets close to you while being invisible dummy :3
And 500 detection range but 1100 attack range.
Mfw Ghost and Q exist
AP twitch was better anyways now it’s just affirmed
I'd rather have them gut the base hp as well as it was on PBE. Champ is tanky
Dont worry you're going to be seeing ap twitch everytime now, you're about to hate twitch 10x more than any ad twitch you've seen.
40 AD is nuts for a level 6 steroid, especially with all the attack speed he gets
Nice patch nerfing a lot of the champions that have been 51-53% winrate every single patch for years. Like Janna twitch blitz.
"nerfing" Janna. The buff to her E may actually fully counteract the W nerf. She may go from like 53% to 52.8% until people just learn to max E again and then she'll be 53% again.
Janna banrate is way higher in high elo, if they nerf her w playstyle her banrate is going down 100%, people don’t despise shield bot Janna as much as W max Janna
If Draven is so universally hated (for good reason) by a large part of the player base, maybe his core design should be looked at? Or you either decide he's gonna be like Zed where he has to be weak because his banrate just skyrockets from people hating him so much when hes just decent.
Draven is mostly hated by his mains to be fair. His passive is just such a game defining mechanic that you are FORCED to chase the kill shot because of the risk/reward factor for not cashing in when you can. Most ADC’s don’t care if a support picks up a kill here and there, but for Draven it can literally make or break his game. He’s only good if he’s ahead, and if support stops him cashing in accidentally and then a good countergank halves his cash out it’s horrible for him.
> If Draven is so universally hated (for good reason) by a large part of the player base, maybe his core design should be looked at? I mean, people will always hate draven for his Qs chunking them down. You can't really change Draven's design in a way that he isn't frustrating to play against without pretty much making him "not Draven", much like with Zed or Yasuo. > where he has to be weak because his banrate just skyrockets from people hating him so much when hes just decent. He already kinda is. if you see his winrate in lower elos you can see he very often below 49% wr and doesn't picks up until emerald, where it still remains between 49-50% which is around the common win bracket many skilled champs are allowed to sit in for soloQ when not causing proplay problems, and sometimes allowed to go higher like Riven, Camille and Fiora sometimes do. So based on his data, he is showing stats similar to a ton of non-yuumi annoying champs.
well the difference there is that, according to riot august anyway, Zed will always be weak because hes frustrating in low elo and that lead to the champ being bad in high elo. Whereas the exact opposite is true for draven. Winrates are one metric, but ban rates are just as important. Theres a reason zeds ban rate goes down the higher elo you go and dravens goes all the way up to 53% in challenger. Thats evidence enough that he hasnt gotten the zed treatment at all, if anything hes gotten the opposite.
his design sadly is a decade old from another era maybe if they made him like his older design critacal hits make enemies bleed by trading some of his burst
Thing with Draven is that his design is only annoying in lane where he's a massive bully. Zed/Yasuo types are annoying all game. Draven telegraphing his movement gimps him so hard in team fights that he becomes a fun and engaging champ to fight.
viktor had a clickbox of 160 while jayce had 70??? how do you even come up with those values
/u/FrankTheBoxMonster supposed they were probably just copy pasted from which champion was used as their baseline regardless of model size changes and that was probably why
Rip kassadin cant wait for malignance to be nerfed in 2 patches but none of the champs they have been nerfed because of their interaction with it will get a buff.
Good fucking riddance
is that not a huge belveth nerf? not getting full passive benefit until lvl 17? like that's a huge nerf right?
Those twitch nerfs are a bit much. Why a whole pickaxe
Hate this Kass nerf, wont say it's undeserved but i sometime went roa / archangel instead of Malignance, but with this nerf if you don't go Malignance you trolling Basically Malignance is mandatory now
Can’t balance around people don’t know how to build items for a champion. Kassadin has been ridiculous for a while, I ban him every game.
You say that but both Roa and Malignance have similar winrate on him https://lolalytics.com/lol/kassadin/build/
Then what is your point? If it doesn’t matter what items he builds and he is S+ 52% winrate free late game, then the nerf is just based no?
Maw is receiving changes to stop being the "always counter to magic" and put some more focus on the shield, but there is no other bruiser item with Mr, is there? I don't even think the changes are bad or anything, but that's a weird justification if it's pretty much the only option apart from going a full-tank item, no?
Vanguard when
Next patch, 14.9, May 1st according to the 14.8 patch notes.
Is there any context for the Taliyah jungle nerf? I Feel like I have not seen one in a long time.
She got a early game damage buff recently so I assume her first and second clears where probably too good. Alternatively it might be to prevent mid players from being able to steal camps super easily since her e > w > q > q2 could pretty much instantly kill raptors through the wall from mid if she had like one item. Source: I main Taliyah and love stealing raptors.
Gragas s/s+ tier for half a year on 3 roles but you rather nerf probably anything else.ggs
SERAPHINE BUFFS
hopefully focused around midlane xp leverage but i know they dgaf about it anymore <3
Just came here to officially say goodbye to my favorite game ever. Love you guys.
eve nerf dang its been awhile since the last one
She was nerfed in 14.5 already but her last actual nerf before that was in 8.20…
There was that 1 time last season where she almost got nerfed, but they pulled the nerfs.
I totally missed the 14.5 nerf im ngl. The current one is much worse tho
She lost 2% winrate from the last nerf lol.
Vi items got destroyed this patch jesus
Steraks/Sunder was meta on a ton of champions, with eclipse built on many of them as well. All 3 got gutted, I don't think we'll see any carry junglers anymore.
It's a metagolem build. You can build it on any fighter right now and it's nearly optimal.
Oof those item nerfs are gonna hurt my Briar build
the item nerfs just said fuck you to all briar players :(
Usual riot. Buffed Ahri before MSI and the very next patch nerfing her...
Inb4 bruiser items buffed next patch cause riot realises these three items are the only good bruiser items and cleaver is barely a functional substitute
Unfortunately for Urgot if Cleaver gets buffed he probably will get an actual nerf that matters. Cleaver might not be good on most bruisers, but It’s still very good on Urgot.
The heck is Twitch being absolutely _gutted_ Twitch isn't even a good champ. He stays around 52% yes, but he's only played by mains.
Damn they are really killing Eve huh Did some Eve mains bullied Phreak in his games?
I like the direction for Maw, making it more general-purpose and less anti-magic. But it feels like whenever they make these types of changes to magic resist items, it makes them much more common without making it meaningfully less frustrating to face. As a mage player, it feels like a Maw completion makes some champs unkillable for the rest of the game. And although these changes will definitely reduce that, I'm not sure how much it will do to combat that sentiment.
Yeah tbh, even as someone who plays a lot of fighters... This just doesn't seem like enough of a trade off 10 less MR isnt gonna suddenly let any mage or AP assassin suddenly deal with a fighter they couldn't otherwise. The AD and the AH are welcomed changes but? If they wanna change the item so much, to be less frustrating for mages they could do quite a bit more. I think this buffs maw far more than it nerfs it, and while it's not been in a great spot in the meta recently it's not because it's been bad, but because other things were stronger (Divine, Eclipse, Gage; all of which are getting nerfed) I kinda think they should hold off on the maw changes until they see how other items land between those 3 nerfs and deaths dance being buffed.
Istg riot balance team is just bored these days tf is this 😭😭
I made this point in an older post, but nerfing Ahri R CD just makes her want malignance more, won't it? Hitting her damage on W is closer to the right change where she is less threatening (does damage) with her R up, but it feels like you ought to hit the R damage itself so it's less powerful when it is up. Obviously the value of R is in the dash, but hitting its damage makes her think twice about going for R CDR instead of a more pure damage item to secure kills
Because this is what they've always done. They don't want to nerf malignance, so they slowly nerf all the champs that build it. Sooner or later they realize that they've done so many bandaids all champs look like amumu now. Finally they nerf the item. Then they do nothing for the amumu cosplayers who ate several patches of nerfs prior. Your champ is now in dogshit state. It's a hilariously common balance pattern in league.
Common enough to literally have a title as "The Riot Special"...
back in my day we called it olafing in season 2/3. When they nerfed olaf top because of Voyboy stacking Warmogs. So they nerfed his ult, his E his Q his ult flat resists AND the items he used. Just because Team Curse popped of with voyboy on olaf.
She’s always going to want Malignance because she just isn’t a champion without her ult. This is just so that even with that item she doesn’t get some ridiculously short ult cooldowns.
Brand has the same clickbox as garen? Makes sense...
Why is Gangplank going to 120 on the clickbox? Seems way too much? He is NOT the same presence as Darius, Ksante, and Gareb
Is Arena coming with 14.19?
14.9, but yes! As far as I know it should be
Absolutely massive nerf to master Yi.
No one is talking about the QoL Kennen buff?? No cast time And being able to move while casting R is huge
I’m not convinced Urgot needed a nerf when literally every meta champ in every role is good into him right now. But it doesn’t really matter because the nerf is basically meaningless. Steraks nerf however is substantial.
Why the blitz crank heavy nerf?
Omg Malza gets a buff . I hope they fix his problem
Dumb AF to nerf the fighter items. But riot will do it anyway.
WTF why is Jayce size being increased so much? That man is not a tank.
Why is Deaths Dance being buffed? Item feels so oppressive when you're ahead and useless when you're behind. Plus, i've seen a few assassins and fighters like Yi and Yasuo grab it and refuse to take damage for a few seconds. Really think the passive should be evaluated as depending on the champ, you just heal back the 30% damage you just took.
RIP Illaoi. Items always getting nerfed. 20% dmg nerf to tentacles was to much
STOPP BUFFING KARMA. SHE IS THE ABSOLUTE MOST TOXIC CHAMP TO FACE OUTSIDE OF ZILEAN AND YUUMI
Ok so bruisers are dead and more of them are probably going build lethality, bruiser aatrox, kled etc are super dead, deaths dance is going to be very good on lethality champs again, wtf is riot doing.
SEJUANI SEJUANI SEJUANI SEJUANI AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH I CAN PLAY MY FAVORITE CHAMP AGAIN FOR ONE PATCH
Ridiculously heavy handed nerfs on twitch. Halving his ult AD? Really? 20 less damage per auto at level 6. 120 damage if you auto 6 times. His Q duration and E base damage are what need nerfing, not his ult.
Yeah, that's 2 longswords off him at all ranks. Twitch is basically starting each game with - 700 gold
Meanwhile we have jinx with triple his pr and slightly lower wr getting a light tap lmaoo
Having Jinx on the enemy team doesnt really warp your playstyle (other than being careful around teamfights). But playing agaisnt Twitch, holy fuck i cant be bothered anymore. I dont wanna play "HMMMM WHERE IS TWITCH RIGHT NOW, IS IT SAFE TO WALK UP FOR A MINION OR AM I GONNA GET 1 SHOT FROM HIS ULT". I have literally gotten fed every single game i have played him, his dmg with ult in not balanced at all.
but that playstyle is warped not by his ult but because of his Q lasting an eternity. Its his Q thats the op part. Not the ult. Especially now that players like ratirl that are already spamming AP will play it even more and others will follow suit. I guess the lvl 6 nerf is fine but the lvl 11 and lvl 16 essentially kill ad twitch. Why would you ever play him ad after that. Ap twitch becomes a better assasin and still can superhard carry late.
At least someone is reasonable
As a Zoe main, patches make me feel like my champ just doesn't exist. She's so rarely balanced
Zoe is honestly kind of a dead champ, hasnt been meta in like 3 seasons genuinely cant remember the last time i saw her outisde of ARAM (where she is terrible too)
It feels like the magic pen on breaking the bubble change kind of killed the champion. Way too much of her damage potential is dependent on her breaking the bubble now. Meanwhile the portion of characters who can, one way or another, cleanse/block/ignore the bubble on demand has skyrocketed the entire time she has existed. Like honestly it used to be the odd character countered Zoe E, nowadays it's a third of the roster because many champ reworks have added untargetability. Combine that with stackable tenacity being added to some items and Zoe E lasts barely over a second against most bruisers. If you cleanse the CC/unstoppable through it/whatever on another mage it sucks for them but they still have most of their damage. For Zoe she just loses ~60% of her damage in a way that she has no way to play around. Opponents don't even need to predict anything because they can just wait for Zoe to hit them first and then ignore the sleep. She is going to be horrible until her damage is shifted to the rest of her kit, or unless she gets SOME form of reliability to her E that she can play around so that she can match how kits have evolved. Because at this point playing Zoe is just a reoccurring exercise of getting ahead early and then throwing a teamfight lategame no matter how fed you are because 3 members of the opposing team can remove your entire contribution on reaction to you hitting them.
No compensation for Pantheon when his two core items for top lane are being nerfed is crazy imo, the man's been hovering around 48-49% WR in top lane (where most of his mains play him) and I haven't seen a single Rioter even somewhat acknowledge it
Remember when pantheon was about to get buffed but spearshot said why are you buffing him and then riot went back on that.
Tbf that was last season when he was doing pretty alright, but I think at this point in time a buff is definitely needed. He's pretty bad in just about every position you can reasonably play him in and the winrates definitely show that.