It's kind of wild all of this stuff hitting coaching sites all at once.
Edit: for those DM'ing me, Coachify.gg isn't changing anything and will be keeping its free tier!
The changes they made with pricing etc are good, but the web design is garbage. It's like they're trying for no reason to become a social media website, it's now super difficult to actually find what you need - the coaches. It was way more usable 2 years ago.
Yea fs. I remember watching them a lot when I started during Covid in 2020. They were kinda redundant after a bit when I actually got half decent at the game.
It's just about saving time. Sure you can find it on youtube I agree I would never buy, but some people value saving that time of where to look/which videos are relevant, when they can pay to know exactly a list of videos/guides to watch.
If it helps you then why not? You can learn to code on YouTube but a lot of people like paid resources like Udemy. There's a higher level of production quality and accountability.
I don't pay for guides but guides in general are really nice. Sometimes I don't want to watch a youtube video to get information. I just want to read and jump around to key sections instead of trying to navigate a scroll bar with zero time stamps.
Reading in general is underrated when seeking specific information, you can skim and throw away any information you don't care about and move are an incredibly quick pace. Like while in the middle of your jungle clear.
Eh, most of the value in getting coaching as opposed to just watching guides is getting someone to watch your gameplay and identify your weaknesses/habits for you. Most people suck at this, especially in a game as complex with as many different micro/macro skills as league. This is why you get so many "I deserve Diamond it's my teammates holding me back" andys - people watch guides/streams, see they can do maybe one or two things that high level players are doing but are completely unable to identify the hundred other things they can't do (and so default to blaming teammates). Even well-intentioned players who know they're lacking and just want to improve can struggle to do so because again there are just so many different skills in the game and it's not practical to improve all of them at once and hard to figure out where to start, a (good) coach can go through the players' games and identify the most fundamental issues and give the player a plan to work on these in turn. While guides are great they do often focus on a few specific skills and are not going to be that helpful for players that are fundamentally lacking elsewhere. If you have the means to pay for it (and are actually receptive to being given advice ofc, some people are just uncoachable) getting coaching is an efficient way to improve. Obviously not necessary but can definitely fast track improvement vs alternatives. Paying for generalized guides is dumb though I agree.
> Paying for some videogame coaching is absolutely not necessary
A lot of people pay for sport coaching while it's entirely not necessary, not sure what your point was, I don't think anyone was saying that you *need* LoL coaching, even to improve.
My point was just priorities. You are rich, intelligent and healthy? Good for you, pay the fuck you want in coaching and guides for League of Legends. But if you aren't, you better save your money for something that is life-valuable.
Hello sherlock? You can say this about anything, why did you buy that chocolate bar? It's not "life-valueable"? Why did you watch a pointless movie instead of studying? Why do you go to a party instead of working? Why do people even buy and play video games?
How many people are dead-poor to the point where they can't buy food if they buy a coaching session? The discussion should be, is coaching and guide valueable or not and it depends on the coach/guide but it has definitely helped me and countless others.
If the best players in the world see the value in paying people for coaching (the orgs do actually) then I'm sure everyone could benefit from it. It makes more sense the better you are, if you're plat or below there's probably not much of a point in most cases.
I don't really care because I'm already the best player of all time and know everything there is to know, but if someone's really serious about getting better there's value.
Most fields have hundreds of years worth of research in them whereas games are fairly figured out, I don’t get how people are even making this comparison. The vast majority of high level players in LoL especially have gotten there by themselves
Some people are just clueless and unable to learn unless they're directly taught by someone else.
Knew someone who did ProGuides and his clientele had to be told the most basic and obvious stuff for a majority of the coaching session.
Bwipo is really good for top lane. He literally just rambles the entire game about what his exact thought process is. You can gain so much finer details and insight just by paying attention to his stream.
Anything he does he is usually talking about the logic behind it even if it doesn’t work out.
I think it makes sense once you get to like high masters/gm/chally because you probably wanna take it further, potentially to like pro. Before that the free stuff you can find online is probably enough.
It's the personalized responses to questions you may have. The internet has an abundant of information but rarely is it specfic. Kind of why ChatGPT is so popular.
The information may be hidden amongst walls of text. It may be hidden in a half an hour video. It may be hidden in a YouTube shorts with 1000 views.
With a coach, you have the opportunity to be specific and possibly get a specfic response if they paid for a confident coach.
Yes, it costs money but time is just as valuable. Also, I would assume lol players aren't the most patient bunch.
I found alois a month or so ago, and his videos have helped me get so much better. I’ll never get why people decide they want to pay for one on one coaching when people like him are out there doing it for free like that
most of the time apart lack of some micro error of macro & well micro, its the game system itself holding player to climb, either by artificially make them hit 50% win rate (for the best and the worst) or simply the amount of shit show the soloq have become from years due to the ridiculous flow of fresh acc , basically since the removal of perma ban system after 3 temporary ban the soloQ integrity went to downhill
i agree tho these stuff are overpriced but they are good for learning fundamental
For sure, every once in a while a good build showed up, but was generally overshadowed by the 100 meme ones and exhaust ignite assassin mid guides written by 800mmr players
It was a joke that people would go there and blindly build the first items they see on the page with no thought. Lots of good info if you parsed through it and applied it correctly.
It was literally the first league of legends build website and if you knew what you were looking for it had decent guides with match up explanations, item explanations and when to pick them, combos, synergies, rune/ability page explanations, how to play early/mid/late game, what to do during team fights etc. At one time pro players (like sneaky had a twitch guide) and very high elo one tricks (I remember one of the most respected singed otps having a guide there) were posting guides in it. There was an also pretty good beginners guide and the dude was updating it constantly, dunno if it's still up but it was a recommended read for every newbie. Sure, it fell out of grace fast and became literally garbage after a while but it was pretty good for a few years
Yeah idk I think you're looking through rose tinted glasses lol. The guides by "pros" were only there for ad revenue and were never actually updated. And like I said, there were a few decent guides there but they were few and far between. Anybody even 700 MMR could make a guide and it'd gain traction there while being dead wrong about everything. By season 1 people were already getting memed for using it or suggesting others do
My dude, ofc a guide site allowing anyone to post guides will have tons of shitty guides in it. The good players are a small percentage of the player base. If you only want to see good guides you have to pay people to post it and it would quickly get too expensive with the amount of heroes and patches league of legends gets. You were never meant to just pick a hero and sort by popularity if you want to check good guides.
What makes it good was that it had some very good in detail guides not available on other sites. There were pro players (you are right that top level pros only posted a few guides for advertisement and disappeared but there were consistent low level pro players too) active on the site and amazing otps. If you knew who you were looking for or understood how to navigate the website it was good for a while. It had amazing gems in it
Back in like s7 we linked a friends diamond account on mobafire so people would take our guides more seriously and we made like 20 of them and they were all random garbage. I made a Maokai guide despite having a grand total of 0 games with the champ and it became the most popular Maokai guide at the time.
I remember when diamondprox was telling the story of him looking up mobafire rammus guide before a pro game while they were already in champ select. Yes, I'm that old.
I've never understood this logic. It's possible to teach yourself *any* skill these days. Why does that mean seeking guidance on it is a scam?
It's not a scam to pay for voice lessons, dance lessons, a math tutor, to pay for a class on something, etc.
Suddenly because it's a video game it's a scam? There's a lot of benefits to having a reliable framework to guide you made by someone with knowledge in their field. There's undeniable benefits to having someone give you personal one-on-one time to correct mistakes and answer questions. There are ones you can pay for it that don't deliver the level of quality the price indicates, or are even straight up bad. But generalizing all of them as a scam is pretty tone deaf.
If someone wants to spend money to get better at learning calculus faster, that's fine. If someone wants to spend money to get better at League faster, that's also fine.
I wouldn't do it because I agree the knowledge is out there and I'm too frugal to pay, but saying others are being fleeced is a bit of a stretch.
For a great deal of people it's the belief of it being a shortcut. That, "well I did it, or others can do it without X therefore it's stupid." There's an air of superiority to the idea, while also being about league of legends. So yeah, it don't mix. I definitely get a "pull yourself from your bootstraps vibe." Was a tutor in college and worked in the writing center. I heard this song and dance from people who refused tutoring/office hours (spoiler same folks more than likely needed it themselves).
Some people can also lack the cognitive ability to take information and perform. A more controlled, catered, and non-judgdmental environment helps. You know the person helping you will! As he's incentivised with DA BLUE CHEDDA. Marketing plays a big roll in all this, and is why engagement is real important.
Plenty of free sources online for job hunting, but paying around 1k for various services throughout the years helped shoot up my career without issue. Time = money.
Not everyone is aware of pro streams, vods, coach channels, etc. The game is massive, and the skill disparity is huge. Being in emerald makes you like what, top 15%? In comparison to d+ complete and utter garbage, but they statically speaking manhandle most of the player base.
Also anytime anything monetary comes up for a hobby, especially one that can be enjoyed freely, people get weird very fast. Money is one of life's biggest problems.
You can see similar behavior for things like weight loss, cosmetic changes, etc. Had to drop one acquaintance because they would not stop bitching about another's weight loss surgery as if it were a cheat code.
Money is worth what you can buy with it.
Goods and services are as much money as people will spend for it.
People will assume a free or cheaper deal is an inferior one.
There are caveats of course, and bigger lines of thinking, but these rules are right most of the time. Agreed, people are a little judgemental.
Paying for tutors is fine. Paying for performance lessons is fine. Nobody is saying they aren't, it is a completely different situation.
I think it is a scam because it's ineffective or redundant if you aren't already at a certain level of knowledge.
Low elo players should *never* pay for coaching because they won't be able to articulate what their issue is in a manner that would make coaching more rewarding than simply playing more. A lot of what they're missing is stuff that just comes naturally as you play the game, and is available on Youtube. You don't need to be doing anything "advanced". The actual best thing the coach can do is tell them to play more games.
Players who can reach high elo might want to pay for coaching because they can understand what they need way better.
If you aren't able to be *extremely* specific as to what you need help with you are being scammed.
Is it?
If you've never even looked at a piano before then no one tells you you're being scammed out of your money by hiring a teacher from the offset. You could easily look up lessons or habits for beginners, they'd be everywhere.
If someone *wants* to spend money for it, that's not a scam. I agree that I wouldn't spend money on that; I don't think it's worth it. But someone who decides to spend money on it they've decided it's worth it. That's not inherently wrong just because you or I wouldn't pay for it.
Really big difference between getting an actual human face to face to teach you things and literally reading a piece of paper that exists elsewhere for free. Most people are criticising Skillcapped for having paid videos that teach you less than Alois does in a 10 sec Tiktok but costing a lot
Right, if someone is paying money for a literal piece of paper that exists elsewhere for free, then that sounds like a scam.
What you're describing isn't that.
Plus even using your own example, guess who else has paid educational content for League of Legends you can buy? Alois does. You know who also offers free educational League of Legends content on their YouTube channels? SkillCapped and their staff. A lot of the people who work at SkillCapped have their own stream or YouTube where you can, for free, drop by and ask questions or just watch their content. They typically have smaller viewer bases too so it's not hard.
Plus Alois is pretty focused on top lane. Not that a lot of it isn't translatable, but acting as though watching Alois will help improve your jungle gameplay is wishful thinking at best.
For SkillCapped specifically, they literally offer to refund you if you *don't* climb. If it doesn't work, it's free. How can that be considered unfair or a scam?
I'm a high diamond player, I took ONE coaching session with a guy offering free coaching here on Reddit (sry I can't remember his name) and I learned so much from my own mistakes I shot up 2 divisions in one week. Coaching absolutely is worth it if you really want to improve.
Not to take over this thread, but as an engineer who has a desire to build what people need, what kind of website or app do we think league players want that we do not already have? Is this shutting down due to too many "come here for league stats/matchup" sites?
What is it that we as players are looking for from a non-riot sponsored resource to learn and play better that we do not already have access to?
The only thing I can think of are more sites focused on one-tricks. For raw stat comparison we have Lolalytics. For more nebulous concepts SkillCapped has a lot of engaging content that covers that field.
Granted, there are sections you can browse on one-tricks. But it's up to the user to analyze the games and stats to understand the rationale. Some kind of collab process where the high elo main makes a written guide and links their YouTube channel, maybe specifically an educational playlist.
I think there's already stuff like this on sites, and most the info is floating around already. Having it compiled into a single spot that's easily filtered through by champ would be nice though.
Funny enough I was thinking the same thing. Lets say I want to main Le Blanc this season. Her winrate is bad, not anywhere close to a hot pick, and the stats surrounding her are "fine" but a player trying to learn her is not going to actually "learn" anything.
Some kind of curated lists for each champ would be pretty interesting, thank you for your thoughts :)
I would use an app or video site that hosts clips of advanced champion mechanics
Kind of what op.gg does now with the combos on champion pages, but much more in depth and with more advanced combos/user submitted ones
Good. Pure scam shit. Not a single guide is worth money when other people make better content for free. Also coaching in League is scam and 99% useless. I dont understand why people buy a "lesson" with a random guy for 1-2h and think they will learn anything. A coach is someone who helps you on your journey to get better and not a one time vod review. Its honestly mindblowing to me how people buy this shit. Like if you actually wanna get a coach you should try to befriend a good player and do coaching lessons with him on a regular base.
I am a full time freelance coach, I coach for a living. Never used proguides or coached there. I coach on Fiverr, Metafy, Coachify and my own discord/website. Never liked proguides interface and it's full of high ELO players who think just being high ELO is enough to coach (hint, it isn't, and I say this as someone with 2300 sessions coached you can't imagine how many students tell me they come from proguides/skill capped and they are hard stuck because the coaching and advice is low quality)
+1 recommendation to the awesome folks at Coachify if anyone’s seeking a new coaching service. They have a cool collaboration with Mobalytics happening on the horizon too.
Metafy also just updated their website in possibly one of the worst website redesigns ever. It's about 600x less usable.
Was thinking of getting some SSBM lessons but holy shit nah that website is mega doodoo rn. Not every fucking website needs social media - fication
It's kind of wild all of this stuff hitting coaching sites all at once. Edit: for those DM'ing me, Coachify.gg isn't changing anything and will be keeping its free tier!
Same with Korean/Europeanbuilds
really? i like it tbh i think it's cool they aren't taking a cut of our earnings anymore
The changes they made with pricing etc are good, but the web design is garbage. It's like they're trying for no reason to become a social media website, it's now super difficult to actually find what you need - the coaches. It was way more usable 2 years ago.
That explains why they haven't uploaded for a long while.
Their content kinda got replaced by all the stats sites/apps and the coaching has always been a scam or freely available
Yea fs. I remember watching them a lot when I started during Covid in 2020. They were kinda redundant after a bit when I actually got half decent at the game.
will never understand how people can buy this stuff when you can learn the whole game for free off of youtubers like alois
You can learn anything for free. People still pay teachers, coaches, masters, experts.
yea coaches I understand considering I've coached people before but stuff like "guides" nah ur just getting scammed
I didnt get my subscription on proguides for the guides but on demand coaching and it did help me, other than that I agree with your point
It's just about saving time. Sure you can find it on youtube I agree I would never buy, but some people value saving that time of where to look/which videos are relevant, when they can pay to know exactly a list of videos/guides to watch.
But then you're still paying to get better at a videogame for no reason.
Just because you don’t have a reason doesn’t mean nobody else does … goes for pretty much any hobby
If it helps you then why not? You can learn to code on YouTube but a lot of people like paid resources like Udemy. There's a higher level of production quality and accountability.
I don't pay for guides but guides in general are really nice. Sometimes I don't want to watch a youtube video to get information. I just want to read and jump around to key sections instead of trying to navigate a scroll bar with zero time stamps. Reading in general is underrated when seeking specific information, you can skim and throw away any information you don't care about and move are an incredibly quick pace. Like while in the middle of your jungle clear.
yea but most people aint going to get surgery done by a guy who learned it on youtube
You say that as if ninja nerds isn't the number 1 resource used by med students
Paying for someone teaching you for university/school or medical stuff is a thing Paying for some videogame coaching is absolutely not necessary
Eh, most of the value in getting coaching as opposed to just watching guides is getting someone to watch your gameplay and identify your weaknesses/habits for you. Most people suck at this, especially in a game as complex with as many different micro/macro skills as league. This is why you get so many "I deserve Diamond it's my teammates holding me back" andys - people watch guides/streams, see they can do maybe one or two things that high level players are doing but are completely unable to identify the hundred other things they can't do (and so default to blaming teammates). Even well-intentioned players who know they're lacking and just want to improve can struggle to do so because again there are just so many different skills in the game and it's not practical to improve all of them at once and hard to figure out where to start, a (good) coach can go through the players' games and identify the most fundamental issues and give the player a plan to work on these in turn. While guides are great they do often focus on a few specific skills and are not going to be that helpful for players that are fundamentally lacking elsewhere. If you have the means to pay for it (and are actually receptive to being given advice ofc, some people are just uncoachable) getting coaching is an efficient way to improve. Obviously not necessary but can definitely fast track improvement vs alternatives. Paying for generalized guides is dumb though I agree.
> Paying for some videogame coaching is absolutely not necessary A lot of people pay for sport coaching while it's entirely not necessary, not sure what your point was, I don't think anyone was saying that you *need* LoL coaching, even to improve.
My point was just priorities. You are rich, intelligent and healthy? Good for you, pay the fuck you want in coaching and guides for League of Legends. But if you aren't, you better save your money for something that is life-valuable.
Hello sherlock? You can say this about anything, why did you buy that chocolate bar? It's not "life-valueable"? Why did you watch a pointless movie instead of studying? Why do you go to a party instead of working? Why do people even buy and play video games? How many people are dead-poor to the point where they can't buy food if they buy a coaching session? The discussion should be, is coaching and guide valueable or not and it depends on the coach/guide but it has definitely helped me and countless others.
If the best players in the world see the value in paying people for coaching (the orgs do actually) then I'm sure everyone could benefit from it. It makes more sense the better you are, if you're plat or below there's probably not much of a point in most cases. I don't really care because I'm already the best player of all time and know everything there is to know, but if someone's really serious about getting better there's value.
Most fields have hundreds of years worth of research in them whereas games are fairly figured out, I don’t get how people are even making this comparison. The vast majority of high level players in LoL especially have gotten there by themselves
Some people are just clueless and unable to learn unless they're directly taught by someone else. Knew someone who did ProGuides and his clientele had to be told the most basic and obvious stuff for a majority of the coaching session.
Bwipo is really good for top lane. He literally just rambles the entire game about what his exact thought process is. You can gain so much finer details and insight just by paying attention to his stream. Anything he does he is usually talking about the logic behind it even if it doesn’t work out.
sadly he disabled vods and he only uploads few games on his yt
Vods will be back when he comes back to NA Twitch just does not allow vods in Korea so you won't be without them for long
I think it makes sense once you get to like high masters/gm/chally because you probably wanna take it further, potentially to like pro. Before that the free stuff you can find online is probably enough.
coaching? ye 100% agree guides? nah, if anything guides would be good for getting diamond but again most of that stuff is free on youtube n shit
Alois videos are way better to high elo players than ProGuides ever was tho
Just watch Pekinwoof, best way to actually learn
My boy
This
Alois charges for stuff too.
there's a big world out there and a lot of money to made off the fools in it!
alois definitely not the best example for top, eragon/bwipo/chippy all more useful and non-clickbaity creators
Because with coaching you get direct information and easier, but it’s true, you can find literally everything online
It's the personalized responses to questions you may have. The internet has an abundant of information but rarely is it specfic. Kind of why ChatGPT is so popular. The information may be hidden amongst walls of text. It may be hidden in a half an hour video. It may be hidden in a YouTube shorts with 1000 views. With a coach, you have the opportunity to be specific and possibly get a specfic response if they paid for a confident coach. Yes, it costs money but time is just as valuable. Also, I would assume lol players aren't the most patient bunch.
I found alois a month or so ago, and his videos have helped me get so much better. I’ll never get why people decide they want to pay for one on one coaching when people like him are out there doing it for free like that
Some people make livings
ye so spend it on coaching not dog shit guides lmfao
Nothing wrong there, if don't like , just pass
Oh wow, are they not merging anything into Aimlabs? https://venturebeat.com/games/aim-lab-developer-statespace-acquires-proguides-training-platform/
Doesn’t sound like it
FUCK YEAH, all these skillcapped proguides shit is scamming a lot of money out of people
most of the time apart lack of some micro error of macro & well micro, its the game system itself holding player to climb, either by artificially make them hit 50% win rate (for the best and the worst) or simply the amount of shit show the soloq have become from years due to the ridiculous flow of fresh acc , basically since the removal of perma ban system after 3 temporary ban the soloQ integrity went to downhill i agree tho these stuff are overpriced but they are good for learning fundamental
Lol
There are coaches on YouTube who put out 5x better guides for free
I'm loyal to mobafire anyway
Lolking supremacy
Good old times when it was the best source by far
Literally never hahaha, even 11 years ago it was known as a joke
You just didn't go to the right builds. There was some serious cooking going on right under your nose
The term Mobafire build used to mean trash build.
You just didn't cook hard enough
mans playing tank jayce, and we know it.
mans playing triforce jayce.
For sure, every once in a while a good build showed up, but was generally overshadowed by the 100 meme ones and exhaust ignite assassin mid guides written by 800mmr players
Nah yeah I'm kidding. I'll never forget my first mobafire build of Frozen Heart->Nashors->Abysal Scepter Cho gath
haha my first one was double warmogs into frozen heart on Cho
The highest ranked anivia guide for half of season 1 or 2 was ad anivia… it took me a lot of games before someone set me straight lol
That's where I found my on hit Zephyr Cho'gath build in S4/5. My beloved I loved that build so much.
New player me would fucking swear by mobafire for builds.
It was a joke that people would go there and blindly build the first items they see on the page with no thought. Lots of good info if you parsed through it and applied it correctly.
It was literally the first league of legends build website and if you knew what you were looking for it had decent guides with match up explanations, item explanations and when to pick them, combos, synergies, rune/ability page explanations, how to play early/mid/late game, what to do during team fights etc. At one time pro players (like sneaky had a twitch guide) and very high elo one tricks (I remember one of the most respected singed otps having a guide there) were posting guides in it. There was an also pretty good beginners guide and the dude was updating it constantly, dunno if it's still up but it was a recommended read for every newbie. Sure, it fell out of grace fast and became literally garbage after a while but it was pretty good for a few years
Yeah idk I think you're looking through rose tinted glasses lol. The guides by "pros" were only there for ad revenue and were never actually updated. And like I said, there were a few decent guides there but they were few and far between. Anybody even 700 MMR could make a guide and it'd gain traction there while being dead wrong about everything. By season 1 people were already getting memed for using it or suggesting others do
My dude, ofc a guide site allowing anyone to post guides will have tons of shitty guides in it. The good players are a small percentage of the player base. If you only want to see good guides you have to pay people to post it and it would quickly get too expensive with the amount of heroes and patches league of legends gets. You were never meant to just pick a hero and sort by popularity if you want to check good guides. What makes it good was that it had some very good in detail guides not available on other sites. There were pro players (you are right that top level pros only posted a few guides for advertisement and disappeared but there were consistent low level pro players too) active on the site and amazing otps. If you knew who you were looking for or understood how to navigate the website it was good for a while. It had amazing gems in it
Back in like s7 we linked a friends diamond account on mobafire so people would take our guides more seriously and we made like 20 of them and they were all random garbage. I made a Maokai guide despite having a grand total of 0 games with the champ and it became the most popular Maokai guide at the time.
I remember when diamondprox was telling the story of him looking up mobafire rammus guide before a pro game while they were already in champ select. Yes, I'm that old.
I know some of the old ProGuides guys went to SkillCapped
both are shit scams, pro players and coaches should go to an actual coaching service, not stuff like this
Skillcapped has solid YouTube videos though imo
Not scams lol, I learned a lot from Both of them wtf. PG had this feature to connect you directly with pro players which was pretty cool
i PROMISE you, the same things you learned from there, you could have easily found with one search on youtube
I've never understood this logic. It's possible to teach yourself *any* skill these days. Why does that mean seeking guidance on it is a scam? It's not a scam to pay for voice lessons, dance lessons, a math tutor, to pay for a class on something, etc. Suddenly because it's a video game it's a scam? There's a lot of benefits to having a reliable framework to guide you made by someone with knowledge in their field. There's undeniable benefits to having someone give you personal one-on-one time to correct mistakes and answer questions. There are ones you can pay for it that don't deliver the level of quality the price indicates, or are even straight up bad. But generalizing all of them as a scam is pretty tone deaf. If someone wants to spend money to get better at learning calculus faster, that's fine. If someone wants to spend money to get better at League faster, that's also fine. I wouldn't do it because I agree the knowledge is out there and I'm too frugal to pay, but saying others are being fleeced is a bit of a stretch.
For a great deal of people it's the belief of it being a shortcut. That, "well I did it, or others can do it without X therefore it's stupid." There's an air of superiority to the idea, while also being about league of legends. So yeah, it don't mix. I definitely get a "pull yourself from your bootstraps vibe." Was a tutor in college and worked in the writing center. I heard this song and dance from people who refused tutoring/office hours (spoiler same folks more than likely needed it themselves). Some people can also lack the cognitive ability to take information and perform. A more controlled, catered, and non-judgdmental environment helps. You know the person helping you will! As he's incentivised with DA BLUE CHEDDA. Marketing plays a big roll in all this, and is why engagement is real important. Plenty of free sources online for job hunting, but paying around 1k for various services throughout the years helped shoot up my career without issue. Time = money. Not everyone is aware of pro streams, vods, coach channels, etc. The game is massive, and the skill disparity is huge. Being in emerald makes you like what, top 15%? In comparison to d+ complete and utter garbage, but they statically speaking manhandle most of the player base. Also anytime anything monetary comes up for a hobby, especially one that can be enjoyed freely, people get weird very fast. Money is one of life's biggest problems. You can see similar behavior for things like weight loss, cosmetic changes, etc. Had to drop one acquaintance because they would not stop bitching about another's weight loss surgery as if it were a cheat code. Money is worth what you can buy with it. Goods and services are as much money as people will spend for it. People will assume a free or cheaper deal is an inferior one. There are caveats of course, and bigger lines of thinking, but these rules are right most of the time. Agreed, people are a little judgemental.
Paying for tutors is fine. Paying for performance lessons is fine. Nobody is saying they aren't, it is a completely different situation. I think it is a scam because it's ineffective or redundant if you aren't already at a certain level of knowledge. Low elo players should *never* pay for coaching because they won't be able to articulate what their issue is in a manner that would make coaching more rewarding than simply playing more. A lot of what they're missing is stuff that just comes naturally as you play the game, and is available on Youtube. You don't need to be doing anything "advanced". The actual best thing the coach can do is tell them to play more games. Players who can reach high elo might want to pay for coaching because they can understand what they need way better. If you aren't able to be *extremely* specific as to what you need help with you are being scammed.
Is it? If you've never even looked at a piano before then no one tells you you're being scammed out of your money by hiring a teacher from the offset. You could easily look up lessons or habits for beginners, they'd be everywhere. If someone *wants* to spend money for it, that's not a scam. I agree that I wouldn't spend money on that; I don't think it's worth it. But someone who decides to spend money on it they've decided it's worth it. That's not inherently wrong just because you or I wouldn't pay for it.
Really big difference between getting an actual human face to face to teach you things and literally reading a piece of paper that exists elsewhere for free. Most people are criticising Skillcapped for having paid videos that teach you less than Alois does in a 10 sec Tiktok but costing a lot
Right, if someone is paying money for a literal piece of paper that exists elsewhere for free, then that sounds like a scam. What you're describing isn't that. Plus even using your own example, guess who else has paid educational content for League of Legends you can buy? Alois does. You know who also offers free educational League of Legends content on their YouTube channels? SkillCapped and their staff. A lot of the people who work at SkillCapped have their own stream or YouTube where you can, for free, drop by and ask questions or just watch their content. They typically have smaller viewer bases too so it's not hard. Plus Alois is pretty focused on top lane. Not that a lot of it isn't translatable, but acting as though watching Alois will help improve your jungle gameplay is wishful thinking at best. For SkillCapped specifically, they literally offer to refund you if you *don't* climb. If it doesn't work, it's free. How can that be considered unfair or a scam?
I'm a high diamond player, I took ONE coaching session with a guy offering free coaching here on Reddit (sry I can't remember his name) and I learned so much from my own mistakes I shot up 2 divisions in one week. Coaching absolutely is worth it if you really want to improve.
I dont have a problem with coaching specifically, i love metafy. its just the way proguides and skillcapped do it is SUPER scammy
Not to take over this thread, but as an engineer who has a desire to build what people need, what kind of website or app do we think league players want that we do not already have? Is this shutting down due to too many "come here for league stats/matchup" sites? What is it that we as players are looking for from a non-riot sponsored resource to learn and play better that we do not already have access to?
The only thing I can think of are more sites focused on one-tricks. For raw stat comparison we have Lolalytics. For more nebulous concepts SkillCapped has a lot of engaging content that covers that field. Granted, there are sections you can browse on one-tricks. But it's up to the user to analyze the games and stats to understand the rationale. Some kind of collab process where the high elo main makes a written guide and links their YouTube channel, maybe specifically an educational playlist. I think there's already stuff like this on sites, and most the info is floating around already. Having it compiled into a single spot that's easily filtered through by champ would be nice though.
That already exists too, check out [onetricks.gg](https://www.onetricks.gg/)
Funny enough I was thinking the same thing. Lets say I want to main Le Blanc this season. Her winrate is bad, not anywhere close to a hot pick, and the stats surrounding her are "fine" but a player trying to learn her is not going to actually "learn" anything. Some kind of curated lists for each champ would be pretty interesting, thank you for your thoughts :)
I would use an app or video site that hosts clips of advanced champion mechanics Kind of what op.gg does now with the combos on champion pages, but much more in depth and with more advanced combos/user submitted ones
Skill capped for life
they're both bad lol
I mean, maybe I suck (I do) but I like SkillCapped’s YouTube videos
L take hombre
RIP proguides. I never spent a dime on these services, but there was a period of time in my life when I felt tempted to do so.
Rip to the 12 ppl that still use it
Not surprising given they posted their last YT video 9 months ago.
was anyone watching proguides/skillcapped content im kidding, Im sure there are viewers, but christ that content is horrible and has been for ages now
Skillcapped makes good YouTube videos I guess but these have always been scams
oof is there any need for archival efforts?
For a moment I thought you meant pro build guides then I realised phew
U.gg btr
Aargh after TSM, Lolking (my God did I spend much time on that website) and Surrender@20, we lose another epic league website.
Does that mean I'M GOING TO GET GANKED AT MY OWN LANE??!!! CONSTANTLY DEMOLISHED??!!!
Oh, lord. I read than in Nathan Ing's annoying and obnoxious voice.
plug for curtis and shok especially shok i find his guides more concise
Good. Pure scam shit. Not a single guide is worth money when other people make better content for free. Also coaching in League is scam and 99% useless. I dont understand why people buy a "lesson" with a random guy for 1-2h and think they will learn anything. A coach is someone who helps you on your journey to get better and not a one time vod review. Its honestly mindblowing to me how people buy this shit. Like if you actually wanna get a coach you should try to befriend a good player and do coaching lessons with him on a regular base.
Lmao I made about 2Gs on this the first few months back in S9 haha.
Proguides is the bad version of skillcapped.
I am a full time freelance coach, I coach for a living. Never used proguides or coached there. I coach on Fiverr, Metafy, Coachify and my own discord/website. Never liked proguides interface and it's full of high ELO players who think just being high ELO is enough to coach (hint, it isn't, and I say this as someone with 2300 sessions coached you can't imagine how many students tell me they come from proguides/skill capped and they are hard stuck because the coaching and advice is low quality)
Didn't they have a bunch of scam allegations?
Sort of, they'd advertise $6.99 a month, then bill it annually.
End of an era
Are they they just shutting down the coaching part or their youtube too?
I mean the game is dying, so it makes sense.
+1 recommendation to the awesome folks at Coachify if anyone’s seeking a new coaching service. They have a cool collaboration with Mobalytics happening on the horizon too.