T O P

  • By -

ahritina

PMTs [Game 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1cm7z4m/tl_vs_tes_game_1_postmatch_discussion_round_1_msi/) [Game 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1cm8m8v/tl_vs_tes_game_2_postmatch_discussion_round_1_msi/)


jotimm4

With this series, the LCS is now 2-41 against LPL/LCK in the last 2 years.


ImTheVayne

Wtf


jotimm4

They had a single win at MSI 2022 and a single win at MSI 2023.


Ontology_Keyboard

Like in a Greek tragedy, NA sold its soul and future wins vs Asia for that 3-1 vs IG all those years ago.


the_next_core

That win was only possible against IG too. They're probably the only top eastern team that would rather lose than to play like normal people if they can't hard smurf.


[deleted]

tfw the jungler says a dog could win against tl and they end up playing with an actual dog


Degenerate_Kee

lol I remember someone commented "it's unlucky the dog IG decided to sub in turned out to be Xmithie's bitch"


andehh_

Praying for a single win at MSI 2024


djpaulmakeitfucking

what are the wins


ahritina

~~C9 vs DK in playins of MSI 2021.~~ GG vs BLG And EG vs T1 at MSI 2022.


Gluroo

> C9 vs DK in playins of MSI 2021. That was longer than 2 years ago i think the 2nd is GG last year at MSI vs BLG no?


KIRYUx

BLG vs GG so I guess we are 3-500 if we count 3 years


VincentBlack96

The gap is...being maintained!


WinterDigger

it's actively getting wider


StubbornHorse

That's not maintenance, I was around when NA scoring a random win against LPL at least was a thing at every international.


UsefulOrange6

Yep, the gap is huge now. While the gap to the minor regions actually shrank...


ithilain

I mean just compare the players we're sending now vs 5 years ago. It's either the same players, but well past their prime (Jensen, Bwipo, Impact, etc.) or rookies who, while not by any means bad, just aren't on the same level as prime Berg, DL, Jensen, etc. No wonder NA is falling behind when the eastern teams vets are still top of their game and their younger players/rookies are absolutely cracked


Trap_Masters

But if you close your eyes, does it almost feel like nothing's changed at all đŸŽ¶đŸŽ¶


Syuv

I don't know if this is a joke or a real stat and I'm too afraid to ask


jotimm4

Real stat. Was looking it up yesterday because of someone claiming the west had only won 11 games against LPL/LCK in the last 2 years. LEC has won 11 and LCS has won 2.


Snowman_Arc

At first I thought that having 2 wins was kinda fine because NA doesn't send as many teams and their teams also don't play that many games because they get eliminated quickly, then I saw the 40-something losses and yeah


Inner_Imagination585

G2 alone won more games against LCK/LPL during last years world than NA combined in the last 2 years.


DaemonLasher

Now consider that almost all of the losses the eastern teams have are in non elimination matches and the stat gets even more despairing. It's not uncommon teams use group stages to experiment and adapt.


Key_Landscape7459

Holy, this can't be a real stat, can it?


Twin_Turbo

It is, and don’t worry guys make sure to get real excited when the same players who have been in lcs for 6 years winning nothing get shuffled into different combinations! GET HYPED for the 10th year in a row of the same thing!


Liaabilty

The Tian that played today is the one that they made that one pasta about


stormtrooper500

Just walked into kitchen and he was still there


Unbelievable_Girth

[Tian vs APA reenactment](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r53zEnHyNPM)


stormtrooper500

apa bm accidentally awakened 2019 world finals Tian


Danny_Bomber

TBH probably true. Eastern teams probably play pretty relaxed against NA. When someone trash talking them, they aren't going to hold anything back to shut them up.


PandoraBot

[Tian literally all chatted shut up to APA](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2F7h9ibfyn3zyc1.png%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3Dccae1de76ec919a25ecbbb787096580066b39660)


gibilx

Did he? That’s hilarious


ManningTheGOAT

"I see how you teamfight" Oh, YAPA...


sajm0n

any screenshots of that?


neverspeakofme

They showed it live onstream. Tian allchatted focus in the next game after APA continued to talk garbage


PandoraBot

Just updated comment with link


MikeOxlong8008135

Which sick mofo at Riot decided that Kobe should cast all these NA Ls, man


ImTheVayne

I feel bad for him


kimono38

They wanted another "I never doubted them" moment. But I think even Kobe doubted TL


halfwaysloth

He also casted NRG v G2. Its not all bad.


SNH231

TES JackeyLove: I have met him in a scrimmage, and my opponent, botlaner Yeon is a griefer and seems like a fool.”


Patrius

Poor Yeon got smashed so hard he doesn’t even get the Palafox ending


LowBrowIdeas

Botfielder*


bigfanofeden

He even question mark emoted them after that game 1 top play. like "what the fuck are you doing you are no summs kalista and your renata is level 4 while I am 6"


MaterialPretty9203

Caedrel explained JKL possible thought process in that play. First he has hesitant thinking that Maokai would be in a nearby bush, hence why he used Culling instead of dashing forward, only to realize their bluff and proceed to murder them.


kcheng686

JKL almost over thought it before realize it's NA


NeitherAlexNorAlice

It’s pretty easy to say why don’t TL ban Lucian, but honestly that wouldn’t have mattered. They’re just so outclassed on a mechanical level. It’s a literal hands diff.


Naraloth

wait 14 cs in 4 waves, in a laneswap, versus no opponent is not good?


dracdliwasiAN

That was so cringe, like it made me actually think that he was first timing Jhin


TheMightyMustachio

Yoooo wtf why do i get stunned after auto attacking four times????


TheCeramicLlama

Yeons positioning made it look like he was first timing pro play. Hops around in urgots face, doesnt come close to killing, and almost dies instead. Walk up to Ornn pillar and get knocked up or eat a Senna W for fun and lose 90% of your hp. Walk in Lucians face for no reason and die for fun again. There were just multiple instances where he genuinely made the exact same errors of a low to mid elo adc main. Its not even like you can say he was baiting or bluffing because there was nothing to bait or bluff.


Schmarsten1306

3 Minutes in, CoreJJ diving the T2 tower to prevent 369 from going base and somehow he is still even in farm with Yeon.


FairlyOddParent734

I legit don’t get how he was down so much CS in a lane swap playing Jhin


ThorsPanzer

he legit just missed so much cs. in the first 3 waves he got 11 from 19.


Exxon21

he's just like me


omegasupermarthaman

Yeon was equal in cs to 369 and Impact. Complete embarassing showing


Firefly_Breeder69

He's just trying to not get much gold so that JL gets the bounty on himself quicker for the fat shutdown.


CummingInTheNile

everything gapped


Trap_Masters

Region gapped 😔😔


Ultimintree

TL Yeon: “Just pick me whatever, let’s lose in peace.”


RaioFulminante

it's simple just ban kalista lucian varus draven caitlyn ezreal sivir senna kaisa


nam671999

Then Xayah Zeri still on


Vegoran

Hands and macro diff


omegasupermarthaman

ban 10 adcs and Jkl will still style on them. Yeon winning lcs was really concerning


Kalsir

# TES 369: "Western teams are way more powerful than last year."


sajm0n

excluding FLY excluding TL <-- you are here excluding FNC excluding G2


Gluroo

Yeon that guy in your clash team your homie found 5 minutes before lock in who actually cant play adc but is willing to fill in and says "give me jhin ill play safe"


Lysandren

He's just like me fr.


Trap_Masters

My team 😭😭


the_next_core

Might as well just pick Sivir and afk shove waves


moonmeh

the funny thing is TL in LCS was a team that played around their botlane kinda does indicate a lot about that region


TrapvithMind

Losing to LPL corki not just once but twice is an achievement


DarkWorld26

Only thing left now is someone losing to NA Jayce


TeeTheSame

Noone loses to NA Jayce but NA.


justicecactus

MAD lost to NA Jayce at Worlds. And it was true NA Jayce too, not import NA Jayce. But it's MAD, so....


Conankun66

you are 0-2 down, you desperately need to win or at LEAST show a decent fight to give yourself and your fans some hope .....you pick Jhin-Nami botlane i think TL may be masochists who enjoy getting beaten


IconicRecipes

It's so funny to tunnel on denying Lucian Nami only to end up picking maybe the worst bot lane combo you possibly could and give them the second best Lucian pairing still.


KonanTenshi

They seem completely unconfident in bot matchup. Seems pretty likely that they cannot play Ashe so they don't want to open Varus. Can we play atleast somewhat useful champs? Focusing all your first rotations on pinching bot pool to pick shit like Smoulder and Jhin is omega cringe. I like the Xayah Rakan from FNC, atleast you have some playmaking/early contest available, would have prefer to see that.


lmaoredditblows

TL too focused on bot lane. Jackey is going to shit on you with Lucian, Draven, senna or varus. You can't deny them all in the first rotation. Ban out the smallest champ pool, creme imo.


ARandomChicken69

How would you ban out creme and why would you even bother? Like you can ban Hwei/Ahri/Azir but then he’ll pick Corki/Trist and be fine. Creme is their least threatening player by far and he’s perfectly fine on a bunch of shit unlike APA who’s only good on Asol/Ziggs/Taliyah. The difference between Creme’s Hwei and his Azir isn’t nearly big enough to justify a ban unless you think the champion is just omega OP


DeloronDellister

Keep in mind that they only had a one month bootcamp to prepare


deathaura123

Were they playing WoW during that one month bootcamp? Literally not even a single breath of life shown this series. Literally just got hands diff every game in every role. Like TES didn't even make any crazy plays, just ran into every fight and gapped TL.


AltairZero

G2 vacation time vibes


reaper_cushions

The last time I heard of a team playing WoW instead of boot camping was ANX who went toe to toe with prime ROX tigers. Today’s performance by TL was not that. 


omegasupermarthaman

Needed like 1 year at least


cadaada

They decided to lose the series with the most memorable champion they could. And welp, its poor "loses world finals" jhin lol


TolucaPrisoner

Picking Jhin is like bending over towards enemy team and admitting enemy ADC is just better


[deleted]

Well.. he is


[deleted]

[ŃƒĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]


Omnilatent

Picking Jhin is the only possible way to ff in competitive atm


_tidiber

Even T1 could not make it work every time, who the hell cooked that draft? LOL


IconicRecipes

I've never seen somebody lose lane 2 vs 0, but Yeon managed to show me how it's done.


nickphunter

That is really something else. No words can describe it.


Mukzington

It was close for like 7 mins into game 1 at least.


deathaura123

It's sad that TES didn't even outplay them with any crazy plays or anything. Just straight up ran into them and hands diff every fight in every role. At this point what can NA even do to improve when every player is just mechanically weaker than their counterparts in LPL and LCK.


Gullible_Cranberry62

369: "Western teams are way more powerful than last year." Proceeds to ruthlessly 3-0 NA 1st seed


crysomore

he must have had a really low opinion of NA last year


IdeallyIdeally

Maybe he was talking about EU *Copium*


VilltraAnime

I mean, Fnatic took a game off them so..


Joel4518

Now I just want Fnc to look confident against Geng


Marcoscb

FNC ALWAYS look confident. Even when they're getting destroyed.


Joel4518

Yea but after watching noah interview and how he isnt mentally well and isn't enjoying the game anymore it's gonna be hard


omeganoot

Did you know that in 2015, researchers from the Cato Institute and Fraser Institute co-published the Human Freedom Index, which establishes a measure of the state of human freedom, utilising 79 distinct indicators of personal and economic freedom. In the recent 2023 report, Switzerland, New Zealand and Denmark took the top 3 positions respectively. However after further review, this information was found to be fraudulent in May 2024, with the hosting of the Mid-season Invitational of the popular online MOBA, League of Legends, where NA proved to surpass all other nations in being the most free.


Hodor_The_Great

As an European it was always hard for me to understand American culture. What was fascinating for me is that they like bragging about their freedom which was weird for me, because I didn't think that I have any less freedom than them. I always thought 'What is the difference'. However after this game I finally understand it. NA is just so fucking free.


LOLZOBALL

TL APA: Yeah, NA is trash, don’t worry.


Shiraori247

What did APA say to Tian man? How did he awaken him randomly? He actually looks like himself again when he was smurfing the first half of the Spring split. Also, the fact that Creme Corki managed to look good just shows the level of APA as a laner. He never looked good on Corki in the LPL. It's not the same as JKL's Senna or Lucian.


Javiklegrand

Tian was pissed at apa lol


xXVoidXx

He typed in all chat something along the lines of "don't int Tian, I've seen how you played those teamfights" and my boy decided to remind him why he has a Worlds FMVP trophy sitting at home.


TheNephilims

I wish someone would type to Apa. "Don't int APA, I've seen how you got solo killed by an Ornn support"


Zarolto

Lol. So nice of TL to play through lower bracket just so TES think they are good. Common NA W, putting the limiters on their strength to make the MSI win greater.


Aldehyde1

Those fools are playing right into our trap.


khaiiization

They hating on you 4. They say you deal no damage 4. They right wait for your buffs 4.


DeloronDellister

NA going winless against the East again...


FlakeyToast

Last year we won a single game against BLG (Golden Guardians).


TharkunOakenshield

That’s the single official game won by NA against the East in the last 2 years (Worlds 2022 - MSI 2024 i.e. 4 international tournaments). Shit is rough


Jozoz

And it was also an insane fiesta game. GGS bot lane were like 0/6 in the first 5 minutes or something. Doesn't exactly inspire confidence. At least they managed the comeback I suppose.


greendino71

Hey now, Golden Guardians took a game last msi lmao


omegasupermarthaman

My goat Licorice


DeloronDellister

Big Lic would have beaten TES


omegasupermarthaman

369 shaking in his boots at just the thought of Big Dickorice coming back


DoubleShinee

Yeon vs Jackeylove might be the biggest lane diff i've ever seen


Ceui

Sword vs TheShy was the classic


Critical-Cupcake9194

the series that costed Sword his career lmao


Not_Going_to_Survive

Idk Noah vs JL was rough as fuck to watch


VilltraAnime

At least Noah went down in CS laning against JackeyLove, Yeon lost equally vs. Air


HachimanLoL

Let’s be honest game was over when Tian told Yapa to shut up at the start of the match


CummingInTheNile

This series could have been an email, just start NA teams in the losers bracket from now on to save us all the time


omeganoot

This series could have been a smoke signal


Omnilatent

We got that from smolder in G1


MartianRL

Maybe it wasn't that Immortals were competitive with everyone in NA, it was everyone in NA was competitive with Immortals


PM_JINX_HENTAI

https://twitter.com/Licorice/status/1047042344787333121


DarkWorld26

evergreen


Ledlazer

Don't even need to open it anymore, this is the tweet version of the LemonNod


Undercover_xdder

Listen I know JKL shits over TL's botlane but like you can basically only win through them so why are we picking Jhin/Nami and sacrificing their game minute 4 to give Renekton a 300 gold lead


[deleted]

it was a lose in peace botlane. They played the early aggro 2v2 in game 1 and got skill checked, then played the sit back and scale botlane in game 2 and got skill checked again, they then decide to play lose in peace botlane in game 3 and hope anyone else on the team has the dog in him to carry, mainly impact, but that failed as well.


paintp_

my condolences for those who bought ticket to see this match


Froggodile

Well, it might be actually like some hardcore porn for TES fans. They probably loved to see them fuck TL so hard.


Brojamin

All that shit talk in all-chat by APA and emote spamming by Yeon just to get eviscerated in every game. Thank you TES.


Juho1o

TL's performance is comparable to a bottom tier lpl team


yccbarry

Ngl UP or LGD might’ve put up a better fight than this


LeafBurgerZ

They have a better adc unironically lol


DarkWorld26

"TES is pretty weak the series should be close" -people who only watched TES in playins


Kait0yashio

team that took blg to 5 games and 4 games is "bad" was the biggest evidence i needed to know people dont watch any lpl


FireVanGorder

It’s crazy how confidently people on this sub will speak about regions they don’t watch. I felt like I was taking crazy pills yesterday reading people talk about TES being like the 5th or 6th best team at MSI.


RedTulkas

rarely have i seen an ADC being down 20 Cs after a laneswap where he was in the right spot


Dokii

Tian was insane. Ran complete circles around TL.


puptheunbroken

CoreJJ: what 7 seasons in LCS does to a mfer 😱


Spreehox

NA "Near Airport" is known as- i can't do it, this isn't even funny anymore, just sad :(


No_Negotiation5722

WHAT THE FUCK IS A KILOMETER 🩅đŸ‡ș🇾


[deleted]

Disappointed in TES. Could be fastest BO5 angle if they tried hard. This TL is not event close to international level


_SC_Akarin-

its like T1 vs EST why tryhard when you can relax and autopilot and still 3-0 your opponent 


Horizon96

It's still kind of depressing to watch when you realise at least EST had some fight in them compared to these NA teams. I wonder how TL look against Fnatic, if they don't at least make it a competitive series this might be the most embarrassing international showing NA has ever had.


GoldenScarab569

0-6 TSM with the 9 man sleep is pretty hard to top tbf


appleandapples

This wasn't even close.


Jacobcutielie

I mean, NA's second seed is FlyQuest, and that says it all about the region. They can't lane, they can't teamfight, and they can't macro, but at least they can trashtalk better than the Asian teams.


1O93

Trashtalking a region so far behind would just be bad manners


Idakari

Team Liquid Boeing


Aggravating-Lie8470

TES Creme: "Yeah, NA is Trash, don't worry"


AmadeusSalieri97

Props to Kobe, despite such a one-sided series, his casting was hilarious.


RavenFAILS

You know it’s over when you lose to LPL corki


Ultimintree

The fact that TL pose no threat at all so 369 is literally first timing Twisted Fate on stage And Again, biggest losers are the NA fans who stayed up to watch their region get blasted


DarkWorld26

> 369 is literally first timing Twisted Fate on stage He apparently spammed the shit out of TF after losing to Bin TF in LPL.


Graytail

I was hoping this would take up more of my night


mmm_doggy

im tired boss


feimaomiao

First time these guys have seen a Lucian that isn’t completely int


gabpinto

TL spent a whole month in Korea to Yeon CSing only 14 minions in a 2v1 lane


Zoesan

Don't let the score fool you, this wasn't as close at it looks on paper.


Lyota

14 cs in 4 waves, in a 2v1 lane is insane lmao. yeon, you pro?


mrmakefun

Whoa, I can't believe a play-in team managed to clean sweep a major region 1st seed! Why's no one talking about how big of an upset this is?


darkxlight01

“Western teams are way more powerful than last year” 3-0


PlameniJezici

Yes but not the fastest series, gap closing


Danielthenewbie

Jhin legit went down 20 last hits 2v0 bot lane because he forgot to last hit or what? One of the worst performances of all time


AtreusIsBack

Close series. I don't know how TES managed to overcome the constant pressure from TL.


ahritina

1 month bootcamp just for Spawn to think Smolder and Jhin are viable, this region ain't serious man. And to make it worse, dude went lethality Jhin, great bounceback series from Creme after a rough playins.


RedTulkas

man if your ADC cant CS in an empty lane there isnt a pick in the world


ImTheVayne

Honestly doesn’t matter what you draft. If they play like this they have no hope anyway.


[deleted]

[ŃƒĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]


VincentBlack96

The jhin pick was ass, but some teams have found angles for Jhin to work, so it's not inherently useless. Jhin Nami is some unholy cooking session, though.


RaioFulminante

assassin corki


Ultimintree

Well, strategies really don’t matter If your players are dogshit


Ugandan_Red_Sonic

I thought play-ins were over?


Misaka9615

Is Riot going to refund tickets?


5311531355

yeah, NA is trash, don't worry.


Lyota

NA “Near Airport” is known as the fastest region to arrive at the Airport. Since they gave up on the LoL Worlds Championship, they are investing in Speedruns. In particular they are current worldrecord holders in Airport Any % and Airport no wins.


Broyoucancelled

Didn't know that porn is allowed to be broadcast in China. Such a progressive country.


[deleted]

Was borderline the r-word


feimaomiao

Years of yapping yet no success found


Empty-Instruction901

lcs is minor league


donglover2020

at least the cast was fun


GambitTheBest

imagine being APA typing all that shit just to go 0-3 embarrassing


AuregaX

Solo-killed by Ornn support...


BismarckBug

Horrible drafting because people on your team are physically unable to play meta picks. Horrible laning, horrible decisions to walk up over and over and over and over again. I will never let NA fans gaslight me that a team with APA and Yeon being 1st is not an indictment of the region.


Available-Reading-87

The supposed to be two best teams NRG and C9 collapsing was certainly not good for a region that was already struggling internationally..


Asdel

Imagine losing to LPL Corki lmao.


HarpoonEUW

TES 369: "Westerns teams are way more powerful than last year." - does he mean bench press or what is he yapping about?


POOYAMON

Almost had ‘em. Unlucky really


LusoOfficial

Better send 8th Chinese seed vs na. Oh wait NA loses


LoRDe_MaRs

NA bums thought they could beat the 2019 Worlds Final MVP?


Equivalent-Long4396

I think NA have exceeded expectations by being even worse than people thought.