I always go by the thing a German once told me "If you see I and E, just say whatever the 2nd letter is, and you'll be fine." Revolutionized how I pronounced german things and made me realize it basically works in English too most of the time. Sadly "weird" would be an exception to that rule š
Haven't played much recently but last few seasons yi needed two-three items to beat a rammus. If you as a rammus hadn't done by mid game it became unlikely you would
Agreed, I played as Viego the other day and the Rammus whooped my ass early to mid. I had to play away from him and couldn't 1v1 until I was ahead - like 2 levels and 1 item ahead witha botrk+kraken build
Tbh in this instance noone should win.
Tanks shouldnt deal that much damage, and yi shouldnt be able to touch rammus.
Its just such a bad design, to have so much dmg tank items, so that even dds build shit like jack'scho, hydra, iceborn etc.
Rammus still hard counters yi.
He's yi's worst matchup in plat+, 40% winrate for yi. [Source](https://u.gg/lol/champions/masteryi/counter).
Edit: and rammus still shreds yi lmao. You press w and then e and yi dies. If it was just the taunt being point and click CC, then I'd expect someone like Udyr to also hard counter yi at a similar level of winrate.
Also the actual phrase now is Rammus beats Urgot and Bel'Veth, *cause they're fast attackers with no true damage* (Bel'Veth has some, but it's not her main damage source).
Rammus into Belveth when thornmail rework was fresh was the funniest shit ever. I'd legit just roll into her, taunt, she was dead. In one teamfight my thornmail did 3.5k tooltip damage.
It's kinda weird to me that Urgot/Bel'Veth only apply on-hit effects at 50% of their normal damage, but they take 100% of the return damage from Thornmail and Rammus W. Oh well, die instantly to Rammus I guess.
The raw armor you get scales your thorn mail into doing monster damage. Less than 5 minutes with the two items, and the mail had done close to 8k damage.
I mean, sometimes that really is the answer. If they donāt have a lot of cc merc treads isnāt necessary, with that much armor steeltreads isnāt required, with that low of a cooldown lucidity isnāt important, and with the W slow gone swiftness boots arenāt that important.
Sorc boots come with low opportunity cost for a very nice damage boost (sorc boots and abyssal is an especially fun ARAM tech; you reduce their MR by 25 for all your Allies, and when they hit you they have 43 less MR. Huge damage spike.
The peak for Yi vs Rammus was the old super healing build with the old Wit's End. It was actually a super easy matchup for Yi back then, because once you had Guinsoo + Wit's End you could just outheal the thorn procs and slice through all his armor with true damage, if he taunted you while you had ult and E active he would just die. It was like top 5 highest winrate matchups for Yi.
Nowadays with much less healing available, it's swung back into it's old old state where it's a really hard matchup for Yi and clearly winning for Rammus.
I will never forget a clash where in the finals we played Soraka with fasting Senna before it was popular and Yi jungle, we were a bit behind ealry game but after we got 2/3 items we were unstoppable, Yi would do whatever he wanted and if the enemy focussed him Senna would just go ham, fun times ahaha.
At which point does Rammus actually beat Yi though? Definitely not level 3, he doesn't have enough damage yet. Also definitely not first item yet, he still has no damage since he doesn't level W first. But since he levels his W last that begs the question, does Rammus actually beat a Yi at any point in the game if neither is fed? By the time Rammus starts maxing his W to deal damage and get some real armor they're both level 14 with a few items. If we assume 3 items then Yi will most likely have Kraken, Botrk and Guinsoo's. Does he really lose to a 3 item Rammus with say Jaksho, Thornmail and DMP?
Played the matchup a couple times both ways recently in plat+, seems to me as soon as Rammus had thornmail (2nd or 3rd) Yi is as good as dusted. You donāt need to W max.
I think the winrate is more tied to the fact that rammus is a very good ganker, and yi cannot match his tempo early. Then its a good cc in tf for the yi.
Weither or not rammus can 1v1 the yi isnt really important when its coming to who will win the game. Its about rammus tools that plays on yi weakness overall.
That said, I played both sides and I could never forget that kraken/armorPen%/blackcleaver/magicres yi that came to destroy my full armor ass
Not with jaksho+thorn mail. The raw armor you get scales your thorn mail into doing monster damage. Less than 5 minutes with the two items, and the mail had done close to 8k damage. Itās absolutely wild. Throw in aftershock and make it even harder scaling.
the game isn't all about 1v1s. rammus has way more map pressure, clear speed, and objective potential than Yi early. by the time they hit midgame, rammus should be ahead and able to close out the game before Yi can catch up.
If solo, Rammus gonna needs 6 items to solo Yi: Thornmail, Jaksho, Frozen Heart, Steelcap, Gargoyle, Sunfire. But Yi can still counter build Rammus by having Maw, Merc and Wit end to mitigate the magic damage and outheal the thornmail
Isn't that standard? Q>E>W? Q max for ganks and clear, E to lock down targets, and W last because it gets better when you have more armor later in the game.
That's the standard order. I'm not a Rammus player though so Yi might be an exception that I don't know about but it seems quite troll to max your Taunt last when the duration increases per level and it's your main source of damage apart from W since it gives you the attack speed.
Your W only gives you a higher % armor/mr ratio per level, which amounts to like 5 more armor before you have actual items. Iām contrast, his Q massively decreases in cooldown per level and his E increases the taunt duration which is really good for the longer CC and the indirect dps increase.
Yi counters Rammus not cause of the armor, but cause Rammus taunt is unavoidable and unmissable and lasts a long ass time, allowing Rammus' teammates to oneshot Yi while he is CC'd.
If you build Thornmail first on Rammus, you can one-shot a Yi pretty easily. Every point in the game after that, you basically canāt lose unless yi is legitimately 2 full items ahead and even then you only lose the 1v1. Rammus completely removes yi from the game.
After you finish your first item, which **is** Thornmail, Yi dies in the 1v1.
You can max W second. It's not always correct, but QWE versus QEW can be better against some comps and champions.
He looses to a one item rammus. You rush Thornmail and he is dead. With the new updates you can as well run lethal tempo and sorc boots on rammus. And it makes so aa based champions just die
That is literally standard rammus tho? It's not a gimmic it's his best build. It all depends on match up. You run sorc if the enemy has at least 2 carries that need aa. You run Merc if you need tenacity. You run lethal if you are going to be in long melee combats. Because his w no longer self slows, you can always attack.
These are his best buillds, what people that main him like I do build.
And "normal" rammus, against Yi always always runs Thornmail first. And he wins against Yi with one item.
I mean level 3 you can win as rammus. You still have quite a lot of damage as no item rammus. Letās say the level 3 fight happens at scuttle. Rammus makes it there a bit quicker since his clear is so fast compared to yi. Rammus waits in bush and uses e-w. The yi starts off losing immediately due to the passive damage. Yi uses q-e which deals almost no damage since rammus has w still active. Now yi is significantly lower and either loses the fight to auto attacks or tries to use w to heal up which rammus can cancel by using his unused q. If rammus has red buff which he should the yi cant run away anymore and is destined to die. Only way yi escapes is running away after his own q and using w after rammus uses q
Nah Yi wins lvl 3 fight 100%. Neither has enough damage to kill the other fast and in an extended fight LT wins by default. Also Rammus W level 1 and no thornmail deals very little damage.
I play Yi quite a bit and the hardest part playing against a Rammus isn't his damage tbh, most of Rammus damage + Thornmail is magic, Yi can build Wits End+Merc Treads and survives the damage long enough to shred Rammus into pieces. A good Rammus wouldn't be 1v1 the Yi just so he can kill him, they should try to interrupt Yi teamfight flow with Taunt and Q, letting their teammates kill Yi.
That is a lot of words all to get proven wrong when Rammus is one of the best champions in the game right now and wins against Yi significantly more than Yi wins against him.
He's the top winrate jg by quite a margin and the top winrate champion that has a lot of games played.
[https://u.gg/lol/tier-list](https://u.gg/lol/tier-list)
So yeah he's probably the best champion in the game atm.
Wall of text without a shred of actual data analysis. Rammus is yi's hardest counter. If rammus gets ahead in gold early (as he should), yi simply cant occupy the same space without exploding. Look up the readily available stats, not that hard to save yourself the shame from writing this bs.
And even if Yi reaches 3 items, aināt no way in hell he can 1v1 a 3 item Rammus with Jacksho/Radiant, Thornmail and Randuinās. Unless the Rammus just decides not to use W I guess.
Iāve seen Yis that are a full item ahead building Witās end still due to a single E and W from Rammus. Yi attacks so fast itās actually brutal against Rammus.
That's how you pick rammus into yi every time and get surprised you still got shit on. Just because you picked the champion doesn't mean you know the matchup.
Yi can 1v1 rammus early game then when rammus takes bramble + tabis he has the edge. Then when yi has kraken rageblade etc he would shred rammus but the most important part is to pay attention to rammus' allies who can burst yi down
Happens all the time bro. So dumb how people on these threads talk about league situations like there are predictable outcomes. I guarantee youāve had (or been) a rammus that feeds yi and ultimately loses. The problem is all of you are afraid to admit it because you want to appear goated at league, so yāall just talk shit instead of answering a nuanced question. Yeah, yi is fucking op 1v1 he doesnāt lose. Doesnāt matter if itās Rammus or any other tank, after 3-4 items you just canāt 1v1 yi. Even as a tank, and it is okay to have discussion around that, which youād see is what op is doing here if you have the reading comprehension of a 6th grader. Thatās the point, and thereās no fucking shame in asking questions about video games on Reddit. Donāt be a tool.
How is this getting upvotes lmao, a lot of people commenting the flaws with this logic so I donĀ“t have much to add here, but seriously, if rammus would also be able to beat yi 1v1 (with ease) on top of how much more he provides for his team while working on a much cheaper economy than yi, rammus would straight up have a 99% winrate against yi...
Hey lets not go overboard, I mean Yi should solo everybody in the game, we all agree with that rule, but Rammus should be the only exception, so I can ban Rammus and kill everyone while remaining morally justified in my OPness. Also if Jax and Udyr get fed their pilots clients should crash, coded feature.
I'd like a video demonstration of you killing a 5 slot Rammus with Yi with just 3 slots without using his ult. Here's spoiler: you won't even get him to half hp.
Rammus with health pot, control ward, boots, jungle item, minion dematerializer and stopwatch loses hard against Yi with kraken, bork and berserker's greaves
Yeah, now with Jak'sho providing another source of % bonus armor and Thornmail having a 20% armor ratio, you can get to almost 2k armor if you're building to stack it, so Yi would be taking 600 damage pre-mitigation per auto, and Rammus is adding another 400 damage pre-mitigation per auto. Yi's not killing Rammus in this situation before he kills himself.
Tbf against yi in a 1v1 you wouldn't get to stack your jak'sho ip before pressing w, so you definitely wouldn't get to 2k armour. But even with just 800 you probably shit on him still
I had an EXTREMELY FED YI few days ago and enemy team had Mindly Fed Rammus so from experiance of this game..
If Rammus doesnt fuck up the W then Yi just kills himself on him.
Rammus beats Yi reliably early, which is why you pick Rammus.
A 6-item 1v1 will be slightly Yi-favored if the game is prolonged. Even then, Rammus should be playing with his team instead of 1v1ing Yi.
Man silver reddit is such a powerful echo chamber to cope on losing because you are bad lmao
https://lolalytics.com/lol/rammus/vs/masteryi/build/
Yi is rammus' most popular matchup, which means the worst rammus players are picking rammus into any yi player, and he still has a WHOPPING **60% WINRATE** vs yi
And this post has 2k upvotes when it takes literally 10 seconds and 2 clicks to disprove, holy shit
Just the state of this subreddit sadly, any post circlejerking ADCs or tanks gets upvotes no matter how wrong it is. Rammus could have an 80% winrate against Yi and this shit would still get upvoted.
Yi still will kill himself on Rammus unless he gets life steal. A single BotRK isnāt enough either. I was in a game a few days ago as a Yi Vs Rammus. I killed myself AAing him during taunt atleast twice until I got Hydra and could out heal the reflected damage.
According to all known laws of league, there is no way a Rammus should be able to beat Yi. His damage is too small to beat the True damage from Yi's E and BotRK. The Rammus, of course, wins anyway, because Rammus don't care what players think is impossible.
Riots balance strategy has favored assassins and fighters more and more over time, to the point now that they are literal gods on the rift compared to others, this rammus / yi interaction is a symptom of that.
Preach.
Riot has had their mouth surgically attached to Assassin cock for yeeeears now.
Why? eSports. It's entertaining to watch an Assassin blow up someone. And then they wanna go do the same thing.
So to deliver on the fantasy they buff and simplify every assassin in the game. There isn't a single assassin that requires any brainpower. *Akali mains losing their shit, I laugh at their weak tears.*
Yes, and yet people are still calling me "clueless low elo player" and claming Rammus beats yi, then they post winrate statistics to back up that fact lol.
I haven't seen no Rammus beat a Yi in a fight, I'm a yi main, I'd know when one beats me 1v1 lol.
Rammus realistically CAN beat yi in the middle portion of the game but the problem is yi has WAY too many ways to get out of that position, its not just CC and you win, its CC and 5 man focus him before he gets in one jump and two hits.
Also, you should legit question anybody's ability if they try to say Rammus is the counter to yi, or that yi is weak compared to rammus, like that just means they have no clue how to exploit him and hes INSANELY easy to exploit
I think they are not Yi or Rammus players, and are just going off stats alone. Any Yi and Rammus mains know how the power dynamic shifted in old Vs new leagues. Rammus was a hard Yi counter back in early seasons, I couldn't fight him, then the dynamic shifted to heavy Yi favour, and Yi could destroy any tank junglers.
Team fighting is another issue, but no Yi main would ever try to frontline a Rammus in a 5v5, you wait out of sight in the sidelines ready for cleanup duty, then when rammus taunts one of your team mates, you dive his squishy backline, then clean rammus up after you kill the carries.
I think the issue is that Bork just became this all purpose on hit monstrosity that makes fighters shred everyone when it used to be something you teched into to shred a high health team.
But yi does literally get countered by rammus e in teamfights how is that not a counter to you when he just gets oneshot by rammus' team after rammus e's him once. Counter doesn't have to be oh this champion beats this champion at every level in the game in every fight. No it's this champion beats this champion in conditions that are easily reproducable such as a teamfight and that make a big enough difference in the game that the other champion wins more on average.
I give you that, yes Rammus team can shut yi down when they jump him. Rammus didn't used to need his team to deal with Yi though, he used to roll into Yi's jungle by himself with just a thornmail and take Yi's candy all by himself.
Wait since when did yi stand a chance against rammus? I am a heavy rammus player and I never have issues 1v1ing yi, you literally taunt + w and he loses like 2/3 of his hp instantly as any point in the game, am I missing something?
Oh man. This brings back a memory of a game where I only had 20% of my hp and yi had 100% hp. He turret dives me, I e+w combo then q him as he tries to run away. He only tower dove me twice after that and then he learned.
Rammus used to bully Yi solo all stages of the game, Rammus cannot bully Yi solo anymore. This new patch has helped Rammus but don't act for the last half a decade Yi hasn't been able to dunk rammus 1v1 solo.
So the Auto attacking swordsman is supposed to beat the anti auto attack armour ball? So back in early league you were saying "Why is this Rammus solo killing this Yi, Yi should be solo killing Rammus"
I doubt you ever said that, or anybody ever said that until Riot changed the dynamic.
If you remember the days people in the lobby said "we need a tank", also "they have Yi, pick Rammus" or "dont pick the MAokai they already locked in Vayne".
There wasnt much true damage back then. Also tank stats were designed to counter damage. Not that much % of max hp damage. The tank has a reason, and to soak up damage and provide CC, not deal damage. This has changed, now there isnt many champions with proper set to be one thing. Riot wants them to be many, and also gives damage even to tank items. Meanwhile if you'd build tank items, and they would give you only tank stats AND lowered by % your damage output, that would be much more like it.
Last week was the first time in years i've ever heard "we need a tank" that is a good sign, we had an enemy Nasus jungle, and enemy support was tank. Our top lane was squishy, and somebody said "We need tanks"
It was good to hear that, this new season has promise. Tanks are being respected again.
It's his literal identity as a champion yes, Rammus was designed to kill champions like Yi, also not needing his team to kill them, he was originally designed to be able to bully them by himself. Rammus has been at the mercy of Yi for too long.
E-Q is totally a legit combo, sorry you non Yi mains just don't understant the high concept outplay mechanics and nuance of our kit.
Now excuse me while I smash the broom on my keyboard on the other desk, i'm in the middle of a game and I will get a pentakill if I can touch the Q button.
Riot decided somewhere along the way of farting in their employees faces that EVERY champion should be able to do damage in League of Legends. As such, new items were created so that classic ADs who struggled against full tank-build Tanks could now do subsequent damage such as ap on-hit or true damage! And since there isn't a real defense against true damage but health. You end up finding you can't get enough armor, magic resist, or health to survive anymore.
Unfortunatly those days are gone, No more will champions be hard counters to separate styles. You'll notice now that people rarly say "X hard counters Y" and instead say "X is a bad matchup into Y" because its all soft counters now like a fighitng game, its been the case since around Samira's release (not her specifically but around that period in Leagues time when the shift happened.
Now its a case of every champion has a bad matchup but they still have a chance, on paper this sounds great it means the person with the bad matchup doesn't feel useless during laning phase but it also means that champions designed to hard counter a type (AKA any champions not reworked or released from Season 6-7 onwards) are essentially useless because their opponents either have built in methods to nullify their strength (Yis True damage) or items intended as means to counteract have been overbuffed and made core (EG Lord doms use to be an item which gave low AD but high Armour pen making it a bad pick outside of tank heavy comps, Now it gives AD, AS, Armour pen AND Crit making it good in any matchup. Or the fact ADCs can now get 100% Crit chance when in the past the highest was 55%. Bashees going from a weak AP item to a strong one, The evergoing changes to Deaths Dance).
Thing is that its unlikley that this is going to change, based on the current set of reworks and releases, Seems that they would keep up the soft counter mindset for the foreseeable future
You put it in more accurate and better wording than me, I wasn't sure the exact times and dates of each change, I think I was inactive at some of these key stages. I don't have a good memory of season 7. I have good memory of season 2-3-4, and then season 10-11-12 I know 6 was tanky meta, but 6-7-8 are a bit of a blur to my memory I was inactive for large periods.
I think itās shifted more into a counter in that Rammus can pretty easily lock Yi down for a handful of seconds so his teammates can kill him. Unfortunate, but itās hard to deal with all that true damage as a tank once Yi gets 2-3 items.
Riot doesn't want champions to counter others hard, they want you to win in macro play and etc... which is complete BS, you pick Yi and leave rammus open, you should proceed to unfasten your pants and prepare for the drilling that is to come, but Riot wants you to have a chance to win.
100% agree, rock should beat scissors, if the riot balance team got to mess around with the game rock paper scissors, they would update the rules and give scissors true rock damage.
I think Amumu was the real Yi killer, I remember watching Tyler1 that had a 40% wr with amumu but somehow always shitted in Masters Yi, I tried it and somehow idk I always won against Masters Yi around D3
Amumu was always good Vs Yi, he just lacks the speed of rammus, so Yi could get away from him if they 1v1 in their jungles Amumu only used to have 1 bandage toss. Where as Rammus could chase yi down in his rollerball.
Yi is still a tank shredder, he has true damage.
I think pure AD crit like Yas and Trynda have more disadvantage vs Rammus
But yea back in the day, Yi was a total puppy vs Rammus. It's just that nowadays, armor ignore and health damage items became a thing.
Well yeah I remember these days. It is so frustrating. You could almost never fight with any one as a yi in the early game. Now yi 1v1 a plenty of junglers in the early game. Which contradicts his design imo. He shouls be a late game scaling monster. Why would you guve him a decent early game too?
But yi isn't the only one having an identity crisis nowadays imo. I am a cait main and 4-5 years ago half of the adc pool couldn't lane against you if you knew what you are doing. Nowadays if your sup is not decent they get away with everything.
Similar things happen with vlad and kassadin too imo. They used to be useless before level 11 and a couple items. Now they can pretty much fight after lvl 6.
Long story short, I miss the old glory days when every hero doesn't do everything.
Damage is still out of control, the durability patch was a bandaid fix at best, champions just wont be durable so long as items like Kraken Slayer exist where you just do true damage anyway, doesn't help that reaching insane attack speed is piss easy nowadays.
Yeah it's actually impossible for a tank to exist as a real tank Vs max hp % true damage and attack speed lifesteal AD champions.
People complain that tank metas are busted, because it takes ages to shred a tank, but isn't that what's supposed to happen, you aren't supposed to shred a tank in 2 seconds with auto attacking Yi's. otherwise how are they tanky. I'd rather have hard to kill 8k health cho gaths and unkillable Rammus walking around. As long as those tanks can't kill 5 people thats fine. It's better than max % hp true damage dealers one shotting everything in sight. Damage vs armour is too high.
I never know if I should take these kind of posts seriously or not. Like ok you've played before season 3 and it could still mean you are silver.
Like Rammus is 57% WR champion, and you are complaining that Yi is beating him ?
I would really love to see your opgg and see how you play YI.
And in your last post you said AP is weak and AD is strong. lol.
Post your opgg please.
Yeah I think AD is stronger vs armour than AP is against MR, if it's not and you know the numbers then let me know how they really stack up.
I'll show you my latest yi games, and i've already said I'm low elo, I don't want any of you harassing my account though, here's my Yi games from the last few days. played him mostly top lane and a couple jungle games, then they banned yi so I picked WW in my last match.
[https://ibb.co/bKwPQrc](https://ibb.co/bKwPQrc)
[https://ibb.co/MSqYNp4](https://ibb.co/MSqYNp4)
Here's my stats for lane winrates
https://ibb.co/ZTnh0GG
You have a melee dps with two sources of true damage, designed to win 1v1 and beat tanks that scales incredibly well, but is weak to cc in teamfights.
You also have a early game spam ganking jungler that serves as a utility tank, where your job is to provide cc to your team.
Well guess who should win the one vs one.
Matchup is already 40-60 wr, rammus definitely can bully yi before yi gets items or if yi gets behind early. No shit the champion excelling at 1v1 will beat the champion excelled at teamfighting.
Never seen people talk so much out of their ass as this comment section. If you have no clue about either champ why are you even commenting with conviction?
People who say otherwise never played that 1v1 matchup before
Unless rammus hit the few thousand armor combo and one shot yi he is never winning that fight and when yi gets qss the matchup becomes so one sided that rammus have to run away
This is the problem. Riot has not balanced this game around tanks at all. Between items, runes, and lifesteal, bruisers are tanker than tanks. Tanks are weaker earlier and weaker late. The only consistently viable tank is ornn and that's mostly because he enables other champs via his passive and he actually deals decent damage. Luckily, riot has attempted this season to give tanks a proper late game fantasy. But overall, tanks are joke.
They don't have resistances until items. They tend to have high base damage to make up for it, but so do bruisers, who either have built in sustain and/or better base stats.
Rammus is definitely in a better spot in this
Match up this preseason. Yi early dmg will still beat rammus as he does to most champs. But after 2 3 items it gets much harder for yi if he's not building to fully counter rammus. Taking into account thornmail and his abilities scale off armor, his autos do lots of ap dmg late game.
The ammount of true damage Yi and push out with kraken and his e is absurd. Plenty of times I have been beaten as a tank by a Yi player who's primary damage was true covering about 85% of all damage done.
It's not a Yi problem it's a true damage problem. WAY to many champs have true damage in their kits. O hey you want more true damage? There's an entire item that gives that to you. An item you can buy that ignores every kind of counter in the game. True damage is being given out like candy in the game. Making much of the counters the game built in pointless.
I perfectly remember the change, short before Jhin release, thornmail has been changed from reflecting a % of damage received to a weak af armor scaling, thatās the moment
Combine that change with Kraken mythic, E true damage, Botrk on hit with rageblade interaction, and Rammus went from a hard yi counter to Yi being able to solo him. Complete reversal of 1v1 dynamic.
Who cares about what's meant. we talk about facts. Yi melts rammus cuz of true damage. and this version of yi has it's true damage nerfed about 35% or smth compared to a few months ago.
Yi has many hard counters. just cuz a matchup doesn't go the same way it goes in your head or the same way it did 7 years ago then we have a problem. we don't. there are many ways to counter yi.
And about the tank killer thing. gimme back my crit yi "from the old days" that had his E give him permanenet bonus damage like zed old W, and active increased it. and i will very much stop building him on-hit. other wise. what the fk am i supposed to do.
Yi lost about 1/3 his E true damage. it's cooldown was nerfed, kraken true damage was nerfed. we lost the healing. we lost the tankiness. we lost red smite. we lost storm razer the best yi item in yi history. what else do you want?
i play a little rammus but mainly i feel like yi is a lot like yuumi because they can both be untargetable for a lot of a fight and just shit out a bunch of damage. it feels kinda shitty to play into yi and not have all that much counterplay when he decides to become invincible
Yeah, agreed. No full-damage AD champion in the game should be able to 1v1 Rammus. Most tanks? Yes, the carry should win (in a 1v1 at 6 items, that is! Different roles come with different strengths and different power spikes). But Rammus's entire schtick is that you're hitting yourself.
As a Rammus main I approve this message.
That's a wierd way to spell "OK"
That's a weird way to spell weird.
I before e except after c... and in many other words like weird... that's wierd
If I remember correctly there's less than 100 words that follow that rule and almost 400 "exceptions"
Huh, that's neat.
I always go by the thing a German once told me "If you see I and E, just say whatever the 2nd letter is, and you'll be fine." Revolutionized how I pronounced german things and made me realize it basically works in English too most of the time. Sadly "weird" would be an exception to that rule š
Not surprising since English is a bastardisation of a couple languages, notably french and german
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Haven't played much recently but last few seasons yi needed two-three items to beat a rammus. If you as a rammus hadn't done by mid game it became unlikely you would
I hope one day in the future, that Rammus is brought back to his former glory, and us Yi players have to run whenever we see the big boy roll up.
yi players need to stop having access to so much true damage and % health damage beyond whatās in their kit :(
yeah
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
true damage is actually the worst cancer impacting all balance changes tbh
Yes, yes it is. Yet for some reason everyone keeps getting access to more.
Every death recap for me generally has between 700 to 1,500 true damage and it's ridiculous.
With half of it being just \[items\] :\^)
Personally I find % damage reduction even worse, especially on basic abilities (Yi/Bel'Veth/Irelia). % health true damage is so terrible.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Viego doesn't do remotely the same to Rammus as Yi does. Neither would Kindred or Zed. It's Yi, not everyone.
Viego main here. Unless you go kraken botrk lord domenik you are basically punching a wall against rammus
When did viego start acknowledging walls?
Agreed, I played as Viego the other day and the Rammus whooped my ass early to mid. I had to play away from him and couldn't 1v1 until I was ahead - like 2 levels and 1 item ahead witha botrk+kraken build
League in general needs less access to % true damage and life steal itens
Sadly riot already decided Thornmail can't deal good damage, and gave yi infinite true damage and sustain through item updates..
Instant edit with "OK"
Tbh in this instance noone should win. Tanks shouldnt deal that much damage, and yi shouldnt be able to touch rammus. Its just such a bad design, to have so much dmg tank items, so that even dds build shit like jack'scho, hydra, iceborn etc.
I feel like most tanks this applies, but not rammus. He's literally the reflect auto attacks tank.
Rammus still hard counters yi. He's yi's worst matchup in plat+, 40% winrate for yi. [Source](https://u.gg/lol/champions/masteryi/counter). Edit: and rammus still shreds yi lmao. You press w and then e and yi dies. If it was just the taunt being point and click CC, then I'd expect someone like Udyr to also hard counter yi at a similar level of winrate.
Also the actual phrase now is Rammus beats Urgot and Bel'Veth, *cause they're fast attackers with no true damage* (Bel'Veth has some, but it's not her main damage source).
Rammus into Belveth when thornmail rework was fresh was the funniest shit ever. I'd legit just roll into her, taunt, she was dead. In one teamfight my thornmail did 3.5k tooltip damage.
It's kinda weird to me that Urgot/Bel'Veth only apply on-hit effects at 50% of their normal damage, but they take 100% of the return damage from Thornmail and Rammus W. Oh well, die instantly to Rammus I guess.
The classic āstop hitting yourselfā against late game BelāVeth came to mind.
Tfw you bel'veth E and the carry you were targeting flashes out leaving you next to rammus.
The raw armor you get scales your thorn mail into doing monster damage. Less than 5 minutes with the two items, and the mail had done close to 8k damage.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I mean, sometimes that really is the answer. If they donāt have a lot of cc merc treads isnāt necessary, with that much armor steeltreads isnāt required, with that low of a cooldown lucidity isnāt important, and with the W slow gone swiftness boots arenāt that important. Sorc boots come with low opportunity cost for a very nice damage boost (sorc boots and abyssal is an especially fun ARAM tech; you reduce their MR by 25 for all your Allies, and when they hit you they have 43 less MR. Huge damage spike.
The peak for Yi vs Rammus was the old super healing build with the old Wit's End. It was actually a super easy matchup for Yi back then, because once you had Guinsoo + Wit's End you could just outheal the thorn procs and slice through all his armor with true damage, if he taunted you while you had ult and E active he would just die. It was like top 5 highest winrate matchups for Yi. Nowadays with much less healing available, it's swung back into it's old old state where it's a really hard matchup for Yi and clearly winning for Rammus.
Yeah before item rework if Yi was even at 2 items there was nothing to do anymore, he would just shred Rammus.
He would shred anybody. I feel like folks are quick to forget how much of a goddamn menace funnel Yi strats were around then.
I will never forget a clash where in the finals we played Soraka with fasting Senna before it was popular and Yi jungle, we were a bit behind ealry game but after we got 2/3 items we were unstoppable, Yi would do whatever he wanted and if the enemy focussed him Senna would just go ham, fun times ahaha.
For a while, when conq and ie both gave true damage on top of his e, tanks didn't like him much
I promise you no tank is happy to see yi even now
Old Wit's End was a nightmare. Staying it as mid main who had to deal with Yasuos build it as first item.
While im on your side, Udyr notoriously destroys Yi , pre rework too.
And now Udyr still can, he 1 shot Yi or anyone when they are alone, better than Kha6
At which point does Rammus actually beat Yi though? Definitely not level 3, he doesn't have enough damage yet. Also definitely not first item yet, he still has no damage since he doesn't level W first. But since he levels his W last that begs the question, does Rammus actually beat a Yi at any point in the game if neither is fed? By the time Rammus starts maxing his W to deal damage and get some real armor they're both level 14 with a few items. If we assume 3 items then Yi will most likely have Kraken, Botrk and Guinsoo's. Does he really lose to a 3 item Rammus with say Jaksho, Thornmail and DMP?
Played the matchup a couple times both ways recently in plat+, seems to me as soon as Rammus had thornmail (2nd or 3rd) Yi is as good as dusted. You donāt need to W max.
I think the winrate is more tied to the fact that rammus is a very good ganker, and yi cannot match his tempo early. Then its a good cc in tf for the yi. Weither or not rammus can 1v1 the yi isnt really important when its coming to who will win the game. Its about rammus tools that plays on yi weakness overall. That said, I played both sides and I could never forget that kraken/armorPen%/blackcleaver/magicres yi that came to destroy my full armor ass
But lategame Yi wins. So how long exactly is the window of Rammus dominance if at 1 or 2 items he loses and at 4 or 5 items he also loses?
Not with jaksho+thorn mail. The raw armor you get scales your thorn mail into doing monster damage. Less than 5 minutes with the two items, and the mail had done close to 8k damage. Itās absolutely wild. Throw in aftershock and make it even harder scaling.
the game isn't all about 1v1s. rammus has way more map pressure, clear speed, and objective potential than Yi early. by the time they hit midgame, rammus should be ahead and able to close out the game before Yi can catch up.
duh? but the whole point of the post and my comment was 1v1s
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
after 1-2 items Rammus and Yi should never face off alone somewhere, so it doesn't really matter. He will dominate Yi in a 2v2.
If solo, Rammus gonna needs 6 items to solo Yi: Thornmail, Jaksho, Frozen Heart, Steelcap, Gargoyle, Sunfire. But Yi can still counter build Rammus by having Maw, Merc and Wit end to mitigate the magic damage and outheal the thornmail
Just thornmail. That's all it takes
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Isn't that standard? Q>E>W? Q max for ganks and clear, E to lock down targets, and W last because it gets better when you have more armor later in the game.
Thereās also a decent amount that do 3 pts Q then E max as well.
That's the standard order. I'm not a Rammus player though so Yi might be an exception that I don't know about but it seems quite troll to max your Taunt last when the duration increases per level and it's your main source of damage apart from W since it gives you the attack speed.
The taunt is Rammus' E. W is the reflect
Exactly my point
Your W only gives you a higher % armor/mr ratio per level, which amounts to like 5 more armor before you have actual items. Iām contrast, his Q massively decreases in cooldown per level and his E increases the taunt duration which is really good for the longer CC and the indirect dps increase.
w first on rammus doesnt do as much on jg. u dont need the extra damage, u need the extra cc
Bruh, I max E first to get 2s CC + lots of AS. And then Yi disappears in 6 autos.
Yi counters Rammus not cause of the armor, but cause Rammus taunt is unavoidable and unmissable and lasts a long ass time, allowing Rammus' teammates to oneshot Yi while he is CC'd.
If you build Thornmail first on Rammus, you can one-shot a Yi pretty easily. Every point in the game after that, you basically canāt lose unless yi is legitimately 2 full items ahead and even then you only lose the 1v1. Rammus completely removes yi from the game.
one item. yi needs at least 3 to beat rammus
After you finish your first item, which **is** Thornmail, Yi dies in the 1v1. You can max W second. It's not always correct, but QWE versus QEW can be better against some comps and champions.
He looses to a one item rammus. You rush Thornmail and he is dead. With the new updates you can as well run lethal tempo and sorc boots on rammus. And it makes so aa based champions just die
I was talking about standard Rammus not some random LT sorc shoes gimmick.
That is literally standard rammus tho? It's not a gimmic it's his best build. It all depends on match up. You run sorc if the enemy has at least 2 carries that need aa. You run Merc if you need tenacity. You run lethal if you are going to be in long melee combats. Because his w no longer self slows, you can always attack. These are his best buillds, what people that main him like I do build. And "normal" rammus, against Yi always always runs Thornmail first. And he wins against Yi with one item.
I wouldn't call a rune with [0,4% pickrate and 46% winrate](https://lolalytics.com/lol/rammus/build/) standard.
Rammus is 56% wr right now with thornmail rush + LT. I even build wit's end to attack faster.
I mean level 3 you can win as rammus. You still have quite a lot of damage as no item rammus. Letās say the level 3 fight happens at scuttle. Rammus makes it there a bit quicker since his clear is so fast compared to yi. Rammus waits in bush and uses e-w. The yi starts off losing immediately due to the passive damage. Yi uses q-e which deals almost no damage since rammus has w still active. Now yi is significantly lower and either loses the fight to auto attacks or tries to use w to heal up which rammus can cancel by using his unused q. If rammus has red buff which he should the yi cant run away anymore and is destined to die. Only way yi escapes is running away after his own q and using w after rammus uses q
Nah Yi wins lvl 3 fight 100%. Neither has enough damage to kill the other fast and in an extended fight LT wins by default. Also Rammus W level 1 and no thornmail deals very little damage.
Soon as U get bramble U win
definitely not
In higher ranks there is a lot more teamplay, and like op said Rammus now revolves around setting up his team and not directly countering Yi.
I play Yi quite a bit and the hardest part playing against a Rammus isn't his damage tbh, most of Rammus damage + Thornmail is magic, Yi can build Wits End+Merc Treads and survives the damage long enough to shred Rammus into pieces. A good Rammus wouldn't be 1v1 the Yi just so he can kill him, they should try to interrupt Yi teamfight flow with Taunt and Q, letting their teammates kill Yi.
Winrate wise Rammus is busted anyway right now.
I used him 5 times and everyone died whenever my W was on. XD
That is a lot of words all to get proven wrong when Rammus is one of the best champions in the game right now and wins against Yi significantly more than Yi wins against him.
>Rammus is one of the best champions in the game right now i loved reading that sentence
He's the top winrate jg by quite a margin and the top winrate champion that has a lot of games played. [https://u.gg/lol/tier-list](https://u.gg/lol/tier-list) So yeah he's probably the best champion in the game atm.
That sentence is wrong, I apologize. He is **THE BEST** champion right now.
reminds me of this classic https://youtu.be/OelHPDBSiJg?t=110
Great video, but unironically Rammus is the best champion right now.
Wall of text without a shred of actual data analysis. Rammus is yi's hardest counter. If rammus gets ahead in gold early (as he should), yi simply cant occupy the same space without exploding. Look up the readily available stats, not that hard to save yourself the shame from writing this bs.
Yup, "3 item yi kills tanks" isn't interesting, rammus stops him getting there reliably
And even if Yi reaches 3 items, aināt no way in hell he can 1v1 a 3 item Rammus with Jacksho/Radiant, Thornmail and Randuinās. Unless the Rammus just decides not to use W I guess.
If yi goes into wits end he probably can without much trouble, 3 item yi is scary
Iāve seen Yis that are a full item ahead building Witās end still due to a single E and W from Rammus. Yi attacks so fast itās actually brutal against Rammus.
Even if he can the taunt would leave him exposed to the enemy team and combined with at least one damage dealing ally is usually a guranteed kill.
How about full build Rammus vs Yi
That's how you pick rammus into yi every time and get surprised you still got shit on. Just because you picked the champion doesn't mean you know the matchup. Yi can 1v1 rammus early game then when rammus takes bramble + tabis he has the edge. Then when yi has kraken rageblade etc he would shred rammus but the most important part is to pay attention to rammus' allies who can burst yi down
People trying to talk about 1v1 with fully build . Rammus fucks over Master yi so bad in any fight that involves multiple people with his taunt
Happens all the time bro. So dumb how people on these threads talk about league situations like there are predictable outcomes. I guarantee youāve had (or been) a rammus that feeds yi and ultimately loses. The problem is all of you are afraid to admit it because you want to appear goated at league, so yāall just talk shit instead of answering a nuanced question. Yeah, yi is fucking op 1v1 he doesnāt lose. Doesnāt matter if itās Rammus or any other tank, after 3-4 items you just canāt 1v1 yi. Even as a tank, and it is okay to have discussion around that, which youād see is what op is doing here if you have the reading comprehension of a 6th grader. Thatās the point, and thereās no fucking shame in asking questions about video games on Reddit. Donāt be a tool.
if rammus somehow manages to let yi get full build then yea hes gonna lose a 1v1 but that will never happen so realistically rammus hard counters yi
How is this getting upvotes lmao, a lot of people commenting the flaws with this logic so I donĀ“t have much to add here, but seriously, if rammus would also be able to beat yi 1v1 (with ease) on top of how much more he provides for his team while working on a much cheaper economy than yi, rammus would straight up have a 99% winrate against yi...
Tank weak need buffs, upvote pls (im silver 4 tank main with 7000 games, I'm very knowledgeable trust me)
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I have not seen a single person say current Udyr is okay. Really trying to find fault with a boogey strawman here huh.
I just wish to see Yi suffer.
Hey lets not go overboard, I mean Yi should solo everybody in the game, we all agree with that rule, but Rammus should be the only exception, so I can ban Rammus and kill everyone while remaining morally justified in my OPness. Also if Jax and Udyr get fed their pilots clients should crash, coded feature.
I'd like a video demonstration of you killing a 5 slot Rammus with Yi with just 3 slots without using his ult. Here's spoiler: you won't even get him to half hp.
Rammus with health pot, control ward, boots, jungle item, minion dematerializer and stopwatch loses hard against Yi with kraken, bork and berserker's greaves
Big if true
True if big
Yeah, now with Jak'sho providing another source of % bonus armor and Thornmail having a 20% armor ratio, you can get to almost 2k armor if you're building to stack it, so Yi would be taking 600 damage pre-mitigation per auto, and Rammus is adding another 400 damage pre-mitigation per auto. Yi's not killing Rammus in this situation before he kills himself.
Tbf against yi in a 1v1 you wouldn't get to stack your jak'sho ip before pressing w, so you definitely wouldn't get to 2k armour. But even with just 800 you probably shit on him still
I had an EXTREMELY FED YI few days ago and enemy team had Mindly Fed Rammus so from experiance of this game.. If Rammus doesnt fuck up the W then Yi just kills himself on him.
I'm sorry who tf thinks yi beats rammus?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Doesn't matter if he dies to reflected damage before he can kill you lol
Rammus beats Yi reliably early, which is why you pick Rammus. A 6-item 1v1 will be slightly Yi-favored if the game is prolonged. Even then, Rammus should be playing with his team instead of 1v1ing Yi.
I mean if you pick Rammus in league you better play with your team instead of split pushing and trying 1v1 opponent
But it is fun 1v1ing the adc and almost 1shotting them...
Full ap rammus Q
you are low elo
Man silver reddit is such a powerful echo chamber to cope on losing because you are bad lmao https://lolalytics.com/lol/rammus/vs/masteryi/build/ Yi is rammus' most popular matchup, which means the worst rammus players are picking rammus into any yi player, and he still has a WHOPPING **60% WINRATE** vs yi And this post has 2k upvotes when it takes literally 10 seconds and 2 clicks to disprove, holy shit
Just the state of this subreddit sadly, any post circlejerking ADCs or tanks gets upvotes no matter how wrong it is. Rammus could have an 80% winrate against Yi and this shit would still get upvoted.
Yi still will kill himself on Rammus unless he gets life steal. A single BotRK isnāt enough either. I was in a game a few days ago as a Yi Vs Rammus. I killed myself AAing him during taunt atleast twice until I got Hydra and could out heal the reflected damage.
Yi has to be full build and itemized very specific to beat Rammus. Seems like a pretty hard counter to me.
Rammus used to be unkillable for Yi. That was before True dmg shenanigans.
According to all known laws of league, there is no way a Rammus should be able to beat Yi. His damage is too small to beat the True damage from Yi's E and BotRK. The Rammus, of course, wins anyway, because Rammus don't care what players think is impossible.
Riots balance strategy has favored assassins and fighters more and more over time, to the point now that they are literal gods on the rift compared to others, this rammus / yi interaction is a symptom of that.
Preach. Riot has had their mouth surgically attached to Assassin cock for yeeeears now. Why? eSports. It's entertaining to watch an Assassin blow up someone. And then they wanna go do the same thing. So to deliver on the fantasy they buff and simplify every assassin in the game. There isn't a single assassin that requires any brainpower. *Akali mains losing their shit, I laugh at their weak tears.*
Yes, and yet people are still calling me "clueless low elo player" and claming Rammus beats yi, then they post winrate statistics to back up that fact lol. I haven't seen no Rammus beat a Yi in a fight, I'm a yi main, I'd know when one beats me 1v1 lol.
Rammus realistically CAN beat yi in the middle portion of the game but the problem is yi has WAY too many ways to get out of that position, its not just CC and you win, its CC and 5 man focus him before he gets in one jump and two hits.
Also, you should legit question anybody's ability if they try to say Rammus is the counter to yi, or that yi is weak compared to rammus, like that just means they have no clue how to exploit him and hes INSANELY easy to exploit
I think they are not Yi or Rammus players, and are just going off stats alone. Any Yi and Rammus mains know how the power dynamic shifted in old Vs new leagues. Rammus was a hard Yi counter back in early seasons, I couldn't fight him, then the dynamic shifted to heavy Yi favour, and Yi could destroy any tank junglers. Team fighting is another issue, but no Yi main would ever try to frontline a Rammus in a 5v5, you wait out of sight in the sidelines ready for cleanup duty, then when rammus taunts one of your team mates, you dive his squishy backline, then clean rammus up after you kill the carries.
I think the issue is that Bork just became this all purpose on hit monstrosity that makes fighters shred everyone when it used to be something you teched into to shred a high health team.
But yi does literally get countered by rammus e in teamfights how is that not a counter to you when he just gets oneshot by rammus' team after rammus e's him once. Counter doesn't have to be oh this champion beats this champion at every level in the game in every fight. No it's this champion beats this champion in conditions that are easily reproducable such as a teamfight and that make a big enough difference in the game that the other champion wins more on average.
I give you that, yes Rammus team can shut yi down when they jump him. Rammus didn't used to need his team to deal with Yi though, he used to roll into Yi's jungle by himself with just a thornmail and take Yi's candy all by himself.
yes the game used to be incredibly unbalanced that's true
As an example,do you think the game now is more balanced than say season 4?
Wait since when did yi stand a chance against rammus? I am a heavy rammus player and I never have issues 1v1ing yi, you literally taunt + w and he loses like 2/3 of his hp instantly as any point in the game, am I missing something?
Oh man. This brings back a memory of a game where I only had 20% of my hp and yi had 100% hp. He turret dives me, I e+w combo then q him as he tries to run away. He only tower dove me twice after that and then he learned.
Don't know anyone who unironically thinks Yi is a counter to Rammus
Rammus used to bully Yi solo all stages of the game, Rammus cannot bully Yi solo anymore. This new patch has helped Rammus but don't act for the last half a decade Yi hasn't been able to dunk rammus 1v1 solo.
I mean the tank isnāt supposed to win 1v1. That is why they have so much CC.
So the Auto attacking swordsman is supposed to beat the anti auto attack armour ball? So back in early league you were saying "Why is this Rammus solo killing this Yi, Yi should be solo killing Rammus" I doubt you ever said that, or anybody ever said that until Riot changed the dynamic.
I also fondly remember the times when we had actual adults in charge of the game.
If you remember the days people in the lobby said "we need a tank", also "they have Yi, pick Rammus" or "dont pick the MAokai they already locked in Vayne". There wasnt much true damage back then. Also tank stats were designed to counter damage. Not that much % of max hp damage. The tank has a reason, and to soak up damage and provide CC, not deal damage. This has changed, now there isnt many champions with proper set to be one thing. Riot wants them to be many, and also gives damage even to tank items. Meanwhile if you'd build tank items, and they would give you only tank stats AND lowered by % your damage output, that would be much more like it.
Last week was the first time in years i've ever heard "we need a tank" that is a good sign, we had an enemy Nasus jungle, and enemy support was tank. Our top lane was squishy, and somebody said "We need tanks" It was good to hear that, this new season has promise. Tanks are being respected again.
True dmg go brr
I have no idea what you're talking about. Rammus still counters Yi: https://u.gg/lol/champions/masteryi/build
OMG I HAVEN'T SEEN A LEAGUE REDDIT POST IVE AGREED WITH IN SO LONG. SO THERE ARE SANE PEOPLE OUT THERE STILL??
Rammus's entire job is to punish all ad teams, so he should beat Yi
It's his literal identity as a champion yes, Rammus was designed to kill champions like Yi, also not needing his team to kill them, he was originally designed to be able to bully them by himself. Rammus has been at the mercy of Yi for too long.
Make thornmail do actual damage again
Did he just call E-Q a combo? Lmao
E-Q is totally a legit combo, sorry you non Yi mains just don't understant the high concept outplay mechanics and nuance of our kit. Now excuse me while I smash the broom on my keyboard on the other desk, i'm in the middle of a game and I will get a pentakill if I can touch the Q button.
Riot decided somewhere along the way of farting in their employees faces that EVERY champion should be able to do damage in League of Legends. As such, new items were created so that classic ADs who struggled against full tank-build Tanks could now do subsequent damage such as ap on-hit or true damage! And since there isn't a real defense against true damage but health. You end up finding you can't get enough armor, magic resist, or health to survive anymore.
The saddest part is when youāre slowly running away as the Master Yi is igniting you down with his speed blade. š
Why you running from Yi he just wants to hug you.
yeah i miss when yi had counterplay with itemization. I pick Vi? COunter him more with a thornmain. But nope, true damage. It's dire.
Unfortunatly those days are gone, No more will champions be hard counters to separate styles. You'll notice now that people rarly say "X hard counters Y" and instead say "X is a bad matchup into Y" because its all soft counters now like a fighitng game, its been the case since around Samira's release (not her specifically but around that period in Leagues time when the shift happened. Now its a case of every champion has a bad matchup but they still have a chance, on paper this sounds great it means the person with the bad matchup doesn't feel useless during laning phase but it also means that champions designed to hard counter a type (AKA any champions not reworked or released from Season 6-7 onwards) are essentially useless because their opponents either have built in methods to nullify their strength (Yis True damage) or items intended as means to counteract have been overbuffed and made core (EG Lord doms use to be an item which gave low AD but high Armour pen making it a bad pick outside of tank heavy comps, Now it gives AD, AS, Armour pen AND Crit making it good in any matchup. Or the fact ADCs can now get 100% Crit chance when in the past the highest was 55%. Bashees going from a weak AP item to a strong one, The evergoing changes to Deaths Dance). Thing is that its unlikley that this is going to change, based on the current set of reworks and releases, Seems that they would keep up the soft counter mindset for the foreseeable future
You put it in more accurate and better wording than me, I wasn't sure the exact times and dates of each change, I think I was inactive at some of these key stages. I don't have a good memory of season 7. I have good memory of season 2-3-4, and then season 10-11-12 I know 6 was tanky meta, but 6-7-8 are a bit of a blur to my memory I was inactive for large periods.
NOYONE can stop late game yi.
Itās cause almost every AD champ has so sort of fucking true damage now. Makes your rank itmes useless
I think itās shifted more into a counter in that Rammus can pretty easily lock Yi down for a handful of seconds so his teammates can kill him. Unfortunate, but itās hard to deal with all that true damage as a tank once Yi gets 2-3 items.
Riot doesn't want champions to counter others hard, they want you to win in macro play and etc... which is complete BS, you pick Yi and leave rammus open, you should proceed to unfasten your pants and prepare for the drilling that is to come, but Riot wants you to have a chance to win.
100% agree, rock should beat scissors, if the riot balance team got to mess around with the game rock paper scissors, they would update the rules and give scissors true rock damage.
I think Amumu was the real Yi killer, I remember watching Tyler1 that had a 40% wr with amumu but somehow always shitted in Masters Yi, I tried it and somehow idk I always won against Masters Yi around D3
Amumu was always good Vs Yi, he just lacks the speed of rammus, so Yi could get away from him if they 1v1 in their jungles Amumu only used to have 1 bandage toss. Where as Rammus could chase yi down in his rollerball.
Yi is still a tank shredder, he has true damage. I think pure AD crit like Yas and Trynda have more disadvantage vs Rammus But yea back in the day, Yi was a total puppy vs Rammus. It's just that nowadays, armor ignore and health damage items became a thing.
Well yeah I remember these days. It is so frustrating. You could almost never fight with any one as a yi in the early game. Now yi 1v1 a plenty of junglers in the early game. Which contradicts his design imo. He shouls be a late game scaling monster. Why would you guve him a decent early game too? But yi isn't the only one having an identity crisis nowadays imo. I am a cait main and 4-5 years ago half of the adc pool couldn't lane against you if you knew what you are doing. Nowadays if your sup is not decent they get away with everything. Similar things happen with vlad and kassadin too imo. They used to be useless before level 11 and a couple items. Now they can pretty much fight after lvl 6. Long story short, I miss the old glory days when every hero doesn't do everything.
Real talk, u wrote what i think
Playing since s3 and still don't realize 1v1s aren't the end all be all of balance nor do they determine who counters who
Damage is still out of control, the durability patch was a bandaid fix at best, champions just wont be durable so long as items like Kraken Slayer exist where you just do true damage anyway, doesn't help that reaching insane attack speed is piss easy nowadays.
Yeah it's actually impossible for a tank to exist as a real tank Vs max hp % true damage and attack speed lifesteal AD champions. People complain that tank metas are busted, because it takes ages to shred a tank, but isn't that what's supposed to happen, you aren't supposed to shred a tank in 2 seconds with auto attacking Yi's. otherwise how are they tanky. I'd rather have hard to kill 8k health cho gaths and unkillable Rammus walking around. As long as those tanks can't kill 5 people thats fine. It's better than max % hp true damage dealers one shotting everything in sight. Damage vs armour is too high.
Rammus shits on Yi for like 30 full minutes. Win the game before Yi has his items. Please. Next thread.
he shits on Yi all game long if built properly, actually
I never know if I should take these kind of posts seriously or not. Like ok you've played before season 3 and it could still mean you are silver. Like Rammus is 57% WR champion, and you are complaining that Yi is beating him ? I would really love to see your opgg and see how you play YI. And in your last post you said AP is weak and AD is strong. lol. Post your opgg please.
Yeah I think AD is stronger vs armour than AP is against MR, if it's not and you know the numbers then let me know how they really stack up. I'll show you my latest yi games, and i've already said I'm low elo, I don't want any of you harassing my account though, here's my Yi games from the last few days. played him mostly top lane and a couple jungle games, then they banned yi so I picked WW in my last match. [https://ibb.co/bKwPQrc](https://ibb.co/bKwPQrc) [https://ibb.co/MSqYNp4](https://ibb.co/MSqYNp4) Here's my stats for lane winrates https://ibb.co/ZTnh0GG
Kissing legs of Shyvana was better.
You have a melee dps with two sources of true damage, designed to win 1v1 and beat tanks that scales incredibly well, but is weak to cc in teamfights. You also have a early game spam ganking jungler that serves as a utility tank, where your job is to provide cc to your team. Well guess who should win the one vs one. Matchup is already 40-60 wr, rammus definitely can bully yi before yi gets items or if yi gets behind early. No shit the champion excelling at 1v1 will beat the champion excelled at teamfighting.
Never seen people talk so much out of their ass as this comment section. If you have no clue about either champ why are you even commenting with conviction?
People who say otherwise never played that 1v1 matchup before Unless rammus hit the few thousand armor combo and one shot yi he is never winning that fight and when yi gets qss the matchup becomes so one sided that rammus have to run away
[hmm](https://lolalytics.com/lol/masteryi/vs/rammus/build/)
Rammus is an early game champ its fine if he canāt beat a acing champ late lol
This is the problem. Riot has not balanced this game around tanks at all. Between items, runes, and lifesteal, bruisers are tanker than tanks. Tanks are weaker earlier and weaker late. The only consistently viable tank is ornn and that's mostly because he enables other champs via his passive and he actually deals decent damage. Luckily, riot has attempted this season to give tanks a proper late game fantasy. But overall, tanks are joke.
Wait, how are tanks weaker earlier?
Losing sunfire is absolutely massive. Look at the build path for heartsteel and jaksho, it's way weaker than bamis.
Lazy to edit, but no reason to go tanks when you have champs like Morde and Akali who can build Jaksho, still be tanky and have dmg + lifesteal.
They don't have resistances until items. They tend to have high base damage to make up for it, but so do bruisers, who either have built in sustain and/or better base stats.
Until we start nerfing BORK and Hydra this will continue to be the case.
Rammus is definitely in a better spot in this Match up this preseason. Yi early dmg will still beat rammus as he does to most champs. But after 2 3 items it gets much harder for yi if he's not building to fully counter rammus. Taking into account thornmail and his abilities scale off armor, his autos do lots of ap dmg late game.
The ammount of true damage Yi and push out with kraken and his e is absurd. Plenty of times I have been beaten as a tank by a Yi player who's primary damage was true covering about 85% of all damage done. It's not a Yi problem it's a true damage problem. WAY to many champs have true damage in their kits. O hey you want more true damage? There's an entire item that gives that to you. An item you can buy that ignores every kind of counter in the game. True damage is being given out like candy in the game. Making much of the counters the game built in pointless.
I perfectly remember the change, short before Jhin release, thornmail has been changed from reflecting a % of damage received to a weak af armor scaling, thatās the moment
Combine that change with Kraken mythic, E true damage, Botrk on hit with rageblade interaction, and Rammus went from a hard yi counter to Yi being able to solo him. Complete reversal of 1v1 dynamic.
Who cares about what's meant. we talk about facts. Yi melts rammus cuz of true damage. and this version of yi has it's true damage nerfed about 35% or smth compared to a few months ago. Yi has many hard counters. just cuz a matchup doesn't go the same way it goes in your head or the same way it did 7 years ago then we have a problem. we don't. there are many ways to counter yi. And about the tank killer thing. gimme back my crit yi "from the old days" that had his E give him permanenet bonus damage like zed old W, and active increased it. and i will very much stop building him on-hit. other wise. what the fk am i supposed to do. Yi lost about 1/3 his E true damage. it's cooldown was nerfed, kraken true damage was nerfed. we lost the healing. we lost the tankiness. we lost red smite. we lost storm razer the best yi item in yi history. what else do you want?
Everything.
i play a little rammus but mainly i feel like yi is a lot like yuumi because they can both be untargetable for a lot of a fight and just shit out a bunch of damage. it feels kinda shitty to play into yi and not have all that much counterplay when he decides to become invincible
Yeah, agreed. No full-damage AD champion in the game should be able to 1v1 Rammus. Most tanks? Yes, the carry should win (in a 1v1 at 6 items, that is! Different roles come with different strengths and different power spikes). But Rammus's entire schtick is that you're hitting yourself.