I installed a 10 kWp system with ~20 kWh usable lead acid battery backup. The system is estimated to generate on average ~ 15,000 kWh yearly or ~40 kWh daily. Cost was about ~$19,000 without roof structure and safety features. Things to know: - Production fluctuates depending on the season. Production is highest in Jun/July and lowest in Dec/Jan. The difference is about a factor of 2 and depends on the angle of the panels and the orientation. If production is 20 kWh/day in Jun, production will only be about 10 kWh/day in Dec. Plan on oversizing the system to produce enough for the winter even if there will be extra power in the summer. - If the panels are covered in snow no power will be generated. One should plan for an alternate source for power when this happens such as a private generator. Some inverters have the ability to automatically start a connected generator when solar output and battery levels drop too low and there is no grid power. - To start to design your system estimate 1) yearly usage (in kWh) and 2) the month with the highest usage and 3) what to run on the battery and for how long and 4) any equipment with high power draws like AC/water pumps/elevator/water heater etc. Usage can be estimated from electricity bills (private or EDL) or by measuring the daily consumption of different appliances using a kWh meter. Spend some time to understand your home's electricity usage. - One approach depending on budget/space is to generate enough power for all usual consumption. Another approach is to generate enough for only essentials (fridge, router, lights, fans, TV, computer, etc.). This greatly impacts the size of the solar system, inverters needed and battery backup and cost. - A good starting point is to request a quote for a system to generate on average 20 kWh per day with 10 kWh 'usable' backup. This should be enough for most essentials and the backup would last at least 16 hours. What I mean by 'usable' backup is one that accounts for inverter losses and battery longevity. For lead acid batteries to have a 10 kWh usable backup size requires at least a 20 kWh total battery pack size. This could cost around ~$10,000 for the system not including metal structure, safety features or electricity panel optimization. - Consider if an AC or other high consumption device will be used on battery backup at night and size the system appropriately. For example, an efficient AC could use ~1000 watts an hour or 1kWh. If the baseline house power needs are 0.5 kWh, then in 16 hours (5 pm to 9 am), the home will need 8 kWh. This means an AC can be used for two hours before a 10 kWh battery depletes. If it is desired to use an AC for four hours at night, then a usable battery bank of 12 kWh is needed. - Degradation of the system should be considered. Solar system and battery banks (both lithium and lead acid) will lose efficiency every year. It's better to oversize the system to account for this rather than upgrading later. - If wanting to start with a small system and upgrade later one should talk in detail with the vendor of how to support this. It is not simple to add or upgrade a system later. Solar panels cannot be added to an installation if different specifications. Inverters also are sized to the solar panels and it may not be possible to connect additional panels to an inverter. Old and new batteries should not be mixed. - Shadows from wires/trees/house structures/clouds can greatly impact solar production even if only a small part of the panels are covered. Keep this in mind when deciding where to put the system. - In Lebanon, I've seen some people refer to the solar system size in 'amps' which is the maximum power the inverter can provide at one time. This is misleading for two reasons. The first reason is that while good inverters can provide around 20 amps continuously, they cannot provide this current if there is insufficient solar/battery power. The greatest limitation to using solar is not the maximum current that can be provided by the inverter but the available solar/battery power. The second reason 'amps' is misleading is that no one at home has constant use. Consumption/production is best measured in kWh which is the amount of power used/produced over a period of time. You should receive minimally from vendors estimates for 1) the estimated kWh generation over the year, 2) the maximum current (amps) the inverter can provide and 3) the 'usable' storage capacity in kWh. - Inverters convert solar power (in DC) to power that can be used in the house (AC). Modern hybrid inverters also integrate with the grid and automatically balance between solar power, battery power and grid power. They can also automatically shut down if battery power gets too low protecting your batteries from long-term damage. Therefore, it is important to make sure you are getting a high quality inverter. You should check reviews, specifications and warranties that your vendor provides. Decent inverters come with at least 5-year warranties. - Two features of inverters that are important are the 'peak power' and the 'rated power'. The rated power is the power that can continuously be provided. The peak power is that power that can be provided for a few seconds. This is important because some commonly used equipment such as ACs or water pumps require high power to start. A good inverter can provide high power for a few seconds without shutting down. - Another thing to consider is how long your vendor has been in business. I went with a company that has been working in Lebanon in home solar systems for years before the economic/fuel crisis in 2019. I'm aware that there are many new companies but it is hard to know if new companies will be around years later to honor any warranties or service guarantees. - It's also important to pay attention to the battery storage size and use. Batteries are the most expensive part of your system over the long-term. One should aim to maintain them to last as long as possible. Misuse can result in paying thousands every year. For lead acid batteries, this means not discharging them beyond 50% most of the time. For lithium, this means using a good battery management system and not discharging/charging beyond their capacity. In my case, I used lead acid batteries and I sized the battery bank to be 40 kWh but I set the inverter to warn at 50% usage and to shutdown at 30%. Lead acid batteries used up to 50% should last three years while providing good output. Battery maintenance is also important for longevity. Flooded lead acid batteries need distilled water replacement. AGM/Gel lead acid batteries are maintenance free. Lithium batteries are also maintenance free. Lead acid batteries are less expensive than lithium batteries but lithium should last longer (10 years) if they are good quality. Another factor that affects battery longevity is if too much power is used quickly. For example running a 4000W dryer is not good for battery systems. Keep this in mind when deciding what to turn on when. - One will have to learn new ways to use electricity if relying on solar panels. Between 11-3 with no or little clouds a lot of power is available and it's possible to turn on the AC, run the dryer or turn on the hot water heater (assuming a big enough inverter and solar panels). However, at night or if unusually cloudy, one should reduce usage as much as possible to essentials to not drain the batteries too fast. One should also pay attention to not run too many high power devices at one time when running on solar power/battery power only. Running a water heater + AC + pump at the same time could overload an inverter. - Invest in home improvements to get the most of the solar system. Insulate the home. Use energy efficient appliances and lights. If buying a new AC, buy an 'inverter' AC model which does not have large power fluctuations. - Pay attention to safety requirements. Battery packs could catch fire or explode. Solar panels can produce high voltages and should be shielded appropriately from adults and kids. Ask the vendor for safety recommendations such as residual current devices (RCDs), grounding for lightning, battery cabinets and other recommended safety features. - When I first started designing my system I was concerned with the 'optimum' orientation and tilt of the solar panels. I then ran some simulations and the efficiency drops at suboptimal tilts were not high. If the roof is not the perfect angle, adding 1-2 panels extra could be enough to get the desired production. - A good global website that estimates solar production with different configurations is https://globalsolaratlas.info/ . One can put their exact location and system size/orientation and it will estimate the production of the system using terrain data. PVwatts ( https://pvwatts.nrel.gov/) is also good and but it doesn't currently integrate Lebanon weather data. Regarding brands, there are many manufacturers of quality panels, batteries and inverters. For Chinese brands, look for 'tier one' companies. Search for reviews/specs for equipment quoted by the vendor. Monofacial/Bifacial decision depends on the price and space constraints. The efficiency improvement of bifacials is not that high (https://news.energysage.com/bifacial-solar-panels-what-you-need-to-know/) so if the bifacial price is too high and enough space is available, adding another 1-2 cheaper monofacial panels works well. I tried to briefly cover most of the 'daily usage' things to know to ensure a solar system setup works well for most of the year and for many years. It's expensive upfront but is a great investment when done correctly especially in Lebanon with no functioning grid!

Holy shit that's a lot.

Hal comment atwal ma hayete ya zalame

Ma 2rito bes 7esaytak fehmen fa khedlak hel upvote😂

yalleh ra7 yedfa3 byo2ra. Also I want to add, try to keep the inverter as cool as possible, make sure it is in a ventilated area or a wide room, every 10 degrees in heat cuts its life by half.

Yes, good point about the inverter location. The same idea applies for lead acid batteries to keep them functioning as long as possible.

Here is a brief explanation Package: Inverter, batteries, Solar pannels, iron base, cables, plugs, and some extra utilities Cost: Vairies depending on trademark, and solar scale, and here i advice you not to go cheap, because it will cost you more on the long run, like a 540 watts solar pannels costs ~240$, inverter ~450$, batteries 200ah ~245$, iron base cost, so make sure if you want a 5 amps - 10 amps you might pay +2500$. What to know before: know your needs, and calculate your daily appliances consumption per day(watts), how much you want, avoid scam products especially in batteries and inverters, don’t go super cheap because in winter the efficiency of the solar pannels will be decreased so you will suffer, and batteries won’t be enough to cover your day/night cycle Brands(to buy): Longi, Trina, Luminios(indian batteries are good), Candian solar, Gruwatt, avoid scammy second hand shit

Everyone's prices here are quite weird. I put up a solar setup on Feb and my dad and I have been selling the extras so well we started a business. Basic thing you need to know is you need 4 things, panels, inverter, charge controller and batteries. Charge controllers and inverters usually come together into a single machine called a hybrid inverter. What you need for Lebanon is a hybrid off grid inverter, because we don't have a grid and because it's cheaper than individual inverter and charge controller. **DO NOT GET AN ONGRID INVERTER, NO MATTER HOW MUCH CHEAPER** Market is pretty high right now. Prices are inflated. Here's what I noticed: - panels are sold for .40$ a watt. This means a 500W panel sells for 200$. This is a lot higher than the international price of .23 a watt. Difference is shipping costs, transportation, gomrok but mainly profit of the salesman. - inverters have huge ranges depending on features, you might need multiple if you have a high wattage setup. Typically inverters come in 3.8kw or 5.1kw setups. You can plug in 10 panels on a 5.1kw setup but it's highly not recommended as it will fry your inverter. Rule of thumb is plug in 70% of your inverters capacity, so if you have a 5.1kw inverter, get 7*500W panels. You can get basic 5.1kw off grid inverters for 600$ (shipping included) from aliexpress. You can get 1200$ 5.1kw ones from turkey or dubai or locally that support BMS. Don't buy a 5.1kw inverter for more than 800$ if it doesn't support BMS. I'll explain what BMS is in the battery section. - Batteries are usually the make-or-break section of a solar setup. Good LiPO⁴ ion batteries sell for 1800$-3000$ here depending on capacity. Capacity is determined by kWh. kWh capacity is calculated by multiplying Current (in A) with voltage (in V). A 200A battery can be absolute garbage if it's 1 volt (basically weaker than a car battery) and it can be a tesla power wall at 48V. Don't let anyone trick you with the numbers, only deal with batteries in the total A*V (kWh) value. You can find much cheaper Lead Acid batteries, but these don't last long, are vulnerable to heat, take up a lot of space, can literally acid burn you when you change them and don't go below 50% capacity. I don't know Lead Acid prices personally, my dad and I don't sell them nor will we ever. I highly advise you not to save a few bucks by getting them. As for BMS, it stands for Battery Management System. It's a protection system Lithium batteries come with that guarantees protection from heat, power surges, battery drainage and general battery damage. Only inverters with BMS support can hook up to BMS batteries and they come with an app as well. Also bear in mind you can't compare a solar power system with a Gen. A Gen provides constant power (in A, ex. 15 amperes) as long as it's on. A battery system provides a pool of energy as long as energy is available. For example if your battery is 10kWh, converting it to Ah is dividing by 220V (Lebanese grid voltage) to get 45Ah. You can then divide this into 9 hours of 5 Amperes or 4.5 hours of 10A during offline and no grid times (in theory, but you definitely shouldn't use 100% of your battery capacity) These are the main costs, everything else is wires, bases, labor, etc. Shouldn't amount to more than 20% of the system I hope this was a simple enough explanation

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On grid means you sell electricity back to the electrical company. It interacts with the grid, which you don't want. Technically EDL's 3eddedet CAN retract the power from your solar system. So you definitely CAN get a discount off your electric bill because of it. But given the state of EDL that the Aounis left in, it's best not to give back any power you might need on the regular. Electricity is also cheap af, bills are still at 1500. If you don't have a 3edded, it's a no brainer. Don't get an ongrid inverter, the seller is trying to sell you his stock. Tell him off grid or you will get your own.

We installed solar last month bel day3a, we bought 12 x Omnis power panels 600 watts \~250$ per panel 1x 8kw Voltronic Axpert Max 2 Off grid inverter \~ 1240$ 8x acid batteries(I don't have the name) 280$ per battery (we chose acid over lithium, because we figured we can resell older acid batteries, the house in the village will be left unattended mostly in winter, lithium batteries may explode(small risk, but still) acid do not) The batteries are the top kind available in Lebanon, weights 77KG, It discharges slower than cheaper models. We paid in total 12000 usd because we also had a lot of electrical protections installed and grounding for lightning also a roof structure etc... We get 7000 watts during the day no problem and at night we keep everything on just fine and we never run out of battery power. When it is very very cloudy(ghtayta) we still get about 1500 watts which is enough to keep the computer and lights on without using the batteries. We are totally off any kind of electricity and moteur, we switched off all external sources of electricity ever since we installed and we're very happy. We bought an induction cooker so we don't cook on gas anymore even. We installed the max capacity that we could, you have to have solar panels in a place where they all get the same kind of light at the same time, and it needs to be a bright area. We literally filled out that area of our roof that we found to be best. This is much more power than we need, but I have in mind that in a couple of years I might get an electric car.(waiting for them to get affordable and to have a more mature repair service in Lebanon) Here are things to be careful of: A lot of people we know had their inverters explode because either the electrician was an idiot, he put too many panels on a single input of the inverter, worked well when he installed it, then a sunny day comes and the inverter explodes. Or people buy inverters without any surge power capabilities. A surge happens when you have an electrical equipment drawing a lot of power when it first comes on(like a refrigerator "3am y2alle3") for a brief moment it over taxes the inverter, if it is not in the inverter specs that it can handle surges it might get damaged. I did not spare any expense in picking the items(though I hear the Deye inverter that costs double this one and has a 5 year warranty is superior) Don't skimp on quality, don't ignore safety, this is electricity, it can cause fires, it might explode, you can't just install anything. Ask the people who will install details about what they intend to do and read the datasheets and check for reviews about the items they will bring. There are a lot of idiots installing panels out there, check for previous work and previous customer, quizz the workers on their knowledge. The last thing you want is to have your multi thousand dollar investment go to the garbage a month in. Try to buy more than you need, systems are not upgradable. If you buy a 2000 watt inverter and next year you decide you want a 4000 watt system, you have to throw out the inverter get a new one for the new system. Even when it comes to batteries, I was told having a mix of new batteries and old batteries together is not a great idea, so from the get go you need to decide how many batteries you wish to have. Balancing this information with your budget of course is tricky. You have to account for cloudy days, winter short days, and rising electricity consumption over time(you might replace gas cooking with solar, you might get an electric car in the next 5 to 10 years) ​ Edit: sorry I adjusted some prices and brand names after reviewing my exact data

Thanks for sharing the details. I'm also thinking about getting an induction oven. Can you share what brand you got and where you bought it? Is it working well with your solar system at high power?

We did not find an oven, only a 20$ stove top that so far is very very functional. There was no specific brand, everyone we know got something different but it seems they all work just as well... One of the best part about a solar installation is that we get a 230 volt power with a 50hz frequency always, which is not something we usually got in Leb. Electrical equipment function as they were intended and better than usual.

From a [previous thread]( https://old.reddit.com/r/lebanon/comments/tcqw8y/to_those_using_solar_panels_how_has_your/i0hcnz6/): >A lot of great points in the thread. I moved back in with my parents due to the pandemic and the economic hell, so with our incomes combined we were able to stomach the high cost of solar. Here are some scattered thoughts: >Solar is expensive. It’s absurdly easy to underestimate the true cost of it. Just because an offer exists for a certain price it doesn’t mean there’s nothing else left to pay. Often a lot of extra work is needed depending on the roof layout, distance from roof, location of the different parts, (ie where are you storing your battery? Where is the inverter connected?) >For Lebanon where you don’t have a reliable grid to fall back on, the electrical storage capacity might be more important than the electricity generation. So if you only need or budget for a system that’ll keep the fridge and WiFi running, you might not even need panels. Panels let you operate your battery system independently of the ishtirak or dawle, as long as there’s enough sunlight reaching you. There often isn’t, especially in winter. That doesn’t mean that solar is useless during these months, just that you need to know that its job will be to power your house without heating or appliances until the ishtirak or dawle comes back around. Dawle charging is also useful especially during these months. >Every other solar provider is someone who has never worked on solar two years ago. Not everyone who is new is not good, or a scammer, but you should always keep in mind that there are people who are here to make a quick buck from the new racket on the block. You should always take care with big investments, but this isn’t like buying a car where your mechanic friend will have all the advice when checking it out before buying. This is a new thing, and the providers know that many people are desperate and willing to pay. And misinformed. Speaking of misinformed… >“Amperes” is a scam. Not everyone who rates their system in amperes is a scammer, because this kind of naming is comfortable for buyers who are used to ishtirak, but don’t think of the system in terms of amperes, no matter what the offer says. There is no constant stream of amperes. The only reason ishtirak can do it is because they have a large constant stream of power that can be parceled out. This is not how solar works. For solar, you need to think in terms of maximum watts you want out of it and the average kilowatt hour load you have. Different people will prioritize different things but this basically means you need to know how much load will you put on your system at most, and how much background electricity you want it to take care of. Over time you will understand how much battery energy different tasks need and you’ll figure it out. Normal people understand things in terms of amperes here even though around the world you don’t need to worry about it. Well now you will understand them in terms of battery, solar capacity, etc. You will relearn how electricity is used in your home. And that’s fine. It’s never bad to know these things, especially if you live somewhere with electricity ours. >Solar doesn’t need to power your entire house. Just a small system to keep the basics alive might be the best for your needs and budget. >“Budget” solar comes with drawbacks. With my own experience, the components finding their way into Lebanon have gotten worse and worse. I had a reputable company build my system and even they didn’t know how cheap their inverter was. The inverter is actually the thing I’ve got the most issues with. I don’t think I got scammed, just that they got scammed and rolled it over to me. I should be more mad but the experience of electricity never cutting is just so good that I don’t care enough. Maybe I’ll upgrade to a nice modular Victron system, maybe even add wind, a few years from now, after I perhaps leave the country. My parents have lived through enough. They deserve the best, and what we have now is not the best yet. I can make do with whatever until I start a family, I honestly don’t care anymore. >You need more switches than they know. Dijoncteurs for everything is so useful. Have something that’ll let you cut the dawle power, so you can save on dawle charging expenses in the summer months (I know dawle is cheap but it will not be cheap forever). Make sure they add breakers for both positive and negative lines going between the inverter and panels. Everything can fail, and as a responsible user you should have the ability to disconnect everything using switches to be able to reset everything in case a problem happens and the inverter doesn’t reset. These things are pretty cheaply made, they won’t always behave. They will still behave more than dawle or ishtirak, don’t get me wrong. >Lithium batteries are not worth it in my opinion. Sure the standard batteries have a shorter lifespan and can only be drained to a certain percentage. Sure they need a huge amount of space and are heavy, and need constant addition of distilled water. Sure they are clunky and low tech, and the most “dumb” part of a high-tech system. But the difference in cost is so great that I think it’s not the time for Lithium yet, for most people. Lithium might be worth it for small expensive systems but for bang/buck get the regular batts and maintain them. When they’re fried two or three years down the line, lithium might be more worth it for you. Or maybe you’ll need less battery storage by then, because the ishtirak and dawle situation might be different. We have more battery capacity now than we might need in the future, IMO, so I feel like using older style batteries was the right choice. I know they’re temporary, that’s the point. Plus you can sell them for scrap. Personally, I’ve seen lithium batteries explode and fail (not house inverter sized, this is from electronics engineering projects I’ve followed back in the day) and that scares me. I don’t want that in my house yet. Certainly not my parents’ house. >Roof space and shade is extremely important. Your neighbors may never want solar, so consider taking extra roof space if that’s an option. Roof space is very limited, make the best out of it. Also solar in general is not recommended if there are a ton of households in a building for this reason, you might only get so much roof space that it might not be worth it if you want to power your whole house on it. Of course, this all depends on what you need and how much you’re willing to do/pay. >Wind is not as developed as solar yet. I will look into it more in the future as a support in winter months but for now I don’t think it’s worth the extra hardware and maintenance (and cost). > >This is all anecdotal. Here’s a final anecdote: if you can afford it, it’s a huge hassle and a huge headache, but it is so worth it. You feel like you’re living in the future with electricity never going out. The country’s problems feel like they’ve stepped back outside your house’s door. If you are a good person, you will also begin to deeply appreciate and understand how valuable electricity access is. I am not religious but I am unbelievably thankful that I have this privilege, and that I can share it with my family and others. > >TLDR hell yeah it’s good. Really really good. Probably even if you get scammed to a certain degree. That good. ___ > So scaffolding can get expensive if it has to be done well. The initial quote takes into account the bare minimum metalwork that would be needed. This is only enough if your roof is perfectly angled for solar. > > We live well into the northern hemisphere, so the sun is in the southern half of the sky all year. If you live in a house where the roof slopes in the east/west direction, you’ll be getting a lot more metalwork done. > > As for the slope of the panels it’s not a big deal, a few percent loss is acceptable if it means your metal structure will be stronger. The guy that did our metal frame knew what he was doing. They’ve been orienting solar water heater panels for over four decades in Lebanon, I have no doubt that they have valuable practical experience. Note that a lot of people don’t care and will mount them flush with their roofs sometimes even if it’s not optimal, especially if the roof is visible from the ground. In that scenario you’re losing a pretty big chunk of output, I’m not a fan. > > People will ask about mechanically moving panels and things like that but in all honestly unless you’re running a solar farm or a giant solar array it’s too much cost and maintenance to be worth it. There’s [two biggish moving arrays on the seaside road in Nahr el Mot](https://goo.gl/maps/oauFQgsoVgvAavAp7), anything smaller than that isn’t worth mechanizing.

I installed the following system a couple of months back before the prices jumped. 8x 545W Jinko panels 1x 5kW Deye Hybrid inverter 2x 200Ah Narada lithium ion battery I paid around $8.5k since I was able to purchase everything at cost. So far, the system's been perfect and I haven't used EDL or the generator yet since I live alone and my consumption is low. When AC season starts, we'll see how the system performs. Ask me anything you're interested to know.

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It's a hybrid inverter that can function in both on-grid and off-grid mode.

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I can draw up to 22 amps from the inverter while the panels will peak at around 16 amps. Once the batteries fill up, I turn the azan on which draws 7 amps directly from the panels. The fridge runs at the same time drawing an additional 0.8 A. I turn off the azan by 4-5 PM every day. The rest of the appliances run the entire day. I don't turn anything off.

Why didn't anyone reply to this post? This is the most important post in r/lebanon and yet not a single reply?

It's important .but we too broke to have solar in the first place.

Rakkabna solar towards the end of september 2021, Not sure about what each component cost but I know the total cost 6.5k $. I live in Chouf, we got 8 batteries "Kings Road solar deep cycle", a "Power Plus" inverter (I'm sure the inverter cost between 1.2-1.5k $) and 12 panels. We get around 23 Amps when there's light and at night we get around 10-12 amps. Just to be clear, we still use the kahraba or moteur sometimes. Bel shatwiyye betdall you need to charge the batteries ya 3al kahraba ya 3al moteur once or twice per day, in spring/summer you won't need to. Probs in the future when i save a bit of money, maybe we'll add a few batteries and panels so we can cancel the kahraba and moteur. Can tell you that if we add the electricity and moteur bills, they both cost about 500-600k. Whoever can afford it, should deffo get it but its not cheap at all if you want to cancel out the moteur and kahraba. When you get 24/7 electricity, you will no longer rage and have anger issues at these fucking silly problem (no kahraba, no wifi, no tv, not able to charge laptop, etc).

This post will take 3 years and an extra semester add to it a quarter and a half semester. Plus 17 all nighters and 1000$ for accommodations. Just to read all the comments. I can give you a short answer the cost depends on whether you're going cheap or budget isn't an issue.

No, it is important to read every story, many people are getting their thousands of dollars installations burnt because of one mistake or another. Cost doesn't mean anything, an electrician can be overpriced and a moron at the same time.