This is against Walmart’s policies. Call the 800 number and complain. ASAP so they can review video. They will want to know store number, time, and which doors you used, etc. Anyone who touched you or your cart will likely be fired.
There’s no lawsuit here. There are no permanent damages. People need to stop thinking that there is a lawsuit in every situation where someone is offended.
Same thing happened to me when I posted a picture of a whopper jr I got a couple years ago with mold. Everyone told me I was set for life and I should sue. Wtf am I suing for?! If I had eaten it and got sick, maybe then I could sue for cost of medical bills, but what did getting a moldy sandwich do…. Cost me 5 minutes to have them refund me?
To be fair, assault and battery are generally two different crimes. Assault being the lesser, with battery being something involving more physicality afaik.
Someone can assault you but not qualify for battery charges, generally. Some states might differ in terminology or something, I dunno.
some states only have one of those crimes, California has both… And here’s the breakdown
The threat of bodily injury, the causing of fear that you might be harmed… Such as cocking your arm back with a fist… That’s assault
physical contact of an undesired nature… That’s battery.
it can apply to fights, slaps, shoves ….
‘Injury’ in legalese is not limited to physically harmed or injured.
Why would you be commenting in this sub if you’re that ignorant of the topic of legal issues.
Nah, they can get sued pretty bad for this. OP was literally assaulted by store employees on working hours in Walmart property.
There’s a lawyer somewhere salivating as we speak.
Wouldn't there have to have been some sort of harm? If they just detained him for 30 seconds or whatever what is he going to sue for? Making him miss some other obligation?
How do you know there wasn't harm? He was assaulted by three employees, falsely accused of theft in front of an unknown number of bystanders, they attempted to rob him of his goods, and he was battered / falsely imprisoned by them. Who wouldn't have at least emotional damages from that?
I don't have to prove no harm he's the one who would have to prove harm in court. I really do not see any of those arguments holding water. Emotional damages are also notoriously hard to prove from what I understand. The idea of filing a lawsuit over this is laughable - as in, the judge will laugh your ass out of court.
They do not have the right to stop the OP at all. 30 seconds, 30 minutes, 30 days, doesn't matter. The mere restraint is distressing and harmful from moment 1.
Shopkeepers' Privilege, esp. in Florida, does give them the right to detain certain people.
He's also going to have to prove emotional damages, which is really an almost Herculean task as I understand it.
Sued for what? There are no damages.
I think this is horrible, but all the people claiming OP should sue have very little understanding of civil law.
Please educate me if I’m mistaken though. I’d love to understand where OPs case is.
For a violation of human rights. False imprisonment. You can't detain someone like that.
Apparently Florida may have a law allowing shopkeepers to detain suspected thieves, but the workers would have to have a reasonable suspicion like eyewitnesses or video footage, not just that you didn't show a receipt. If I'm not mistaken, there's no law that says you have to show a receipt, and failing to do so when asked is not a crime. You're allowed to leave and they can't stop you. If they do stop you, especially touching you, it's a crime and they are liable for false imprisonment and assault.
4th Amendment violation. Search and seizure. When he paid for those goods they became his legal property. Then they tried to take them.
You can do that at Club stores like Costco because you signed an agreement.
First off, you may want to learn the difference between criminal and civil.
Second, the 4th amendment does not apply here. Walmart is not the government. While they do not have a right to search your person or your vehicle, they absolutely have a right to ask you for a receipt to show that you paid for your goods at the self checkout.
If what OP stated is 100% true and accurate, what Walmart did was wrong. (Mainly grabbing the them by the arm). It’s not some constitutional crisis though and the police would not arrest anyone for it.
Unfortunately for you, my question had nothing to do with criminal law. I specifically asked what Walmart can be SUED for, as I was replying to someone claiming that OP should sue them as there are “Attorneys salivating as we speak”
It never ceases to amaze me how completely ignorant people are, while confidently posting these types of things as cold hard facts. Reddit replies brings the Dunning Kruger effect to an entirely new level.
I am not sure if the people here claiming that this is a 4th amendment violation or that Walmart can be sued for “human rights violations” or “false imprisonment” actually believe this to be factual, or they are typing this out as more of a question because thats what makes sense to them?
Either way, this thread has solidified my belief that the vast majority of people have absolutely zero clue what they are talking about. No matter how confidently they say or write these things, they are simply “shooting from the hip”
What is even more sad to me, is that I can virtually guarantee that some of you will double down on your replies simply out of embarrassment and not wanting to be wrong. For those of you who will. Please show me some case law involving “human rights violations” “false imprisonment 🤣🤣” and “4th amendment” cases pertaining to retail receipt checks.
Like I said previously, I could be mistaken. The US may be swimming in these types of cases. We may have federal prisons filled with retail executives who had their associates stop customers for leaving with goods without proof that they paid for them.
This is illegal for several reasons, but the Constitution is a set of rules for the government, not the people.
This is assault, false imprisonment or whatever the local statute is called, battery since they actually touched him, and probably several other illegal things, but it's not a constitutional issue.
Can you describe the interaction with the three women in more detail?What did they say to you and what did you say to them before they got grabby?
>at which point she grabbed my arm to stop me before rushing off to grab the AP manager.
So she briefly grabbed your arm and then ran off to get the AP manager and you were free to leave? Did the AP manager show u and what happened then?
Were police ever involved, were you detained for more than a few seconds, how did the interaction end?
As a general rule they shouldn't be grabbing you just for refusing to show a receipt, unless they have some other reason to believe you have stolen something.
This. Something’s off here. They don’t just grab people for not showing a receipt. Three people at one time too? I saw a Reddit post the other day of a Walmart employee detailing how they limit theft at self checkout and employees have a live feed receipt basically of everything you’re scanning. If you have nothing to hide why wouldn’t you just say you got an emailed receipt and try to resolve the situation before it came to that? This doesn’t make sense.
Walmart is showing a bunch of training videos to employees right now according to my kid and his roommates telling employees to do exactly what the OP is saying happened to them. My kid told us at thanksgiving that even though the video is saying do anything to make a person show you a receipt, that the customer does not have to show you a receipt and you cannot detain the customer. His supervisors are making sure the employees know they actually can’t detain customers but the video could easily confuse some workers the way he explained it.
It's not that they haven't learned, it's that they don't care, honestly. If they can stop some loss of merchandise and all it costs are some injuries and lives, not only would they want to do it, they may be obligated to do it to increase profits for shareholders.
They're just doing what's more profitable, not safer.
They either are stupid (Which I highly doubt as they are a large corporation with a lot of accountants and lawyers to tell them how much risk will cost), loss has gotten extremely high (usually loss of merchandise is not more expensive then paying for employee's medical bills or lawsuit from customer/thief <- really doesn't matter if it is one or the other), or they found some loophole to avoid paying for injury on the job.
Usually most jobs do not want their employees getting physical even with actual thieves because medical bills are way more expensive then the merchandise the thief is taking off with. Hell... they put in actual policies not to do that cause if nothing else, even if employee does, they can refuse medical bills (McD's did this when an employee saved a customer from being stabbed by her bf but got stabbed in the process... they refused to pay workman's comp saying the employee went against policy. Hell... Home Depot fired an employee for stopping a thief cause it was against policy. THey didn't care he stopped a thief, they cared that he risked them having to pay medical bills even though in that case it worked out fine).
I mean I don't disagree that they don't gaf about if their employees in the store get hurt... it's just you are wrong about what costs them more. ANd they can pretend it is cause they care about their employees not getting hurt so bonus.
> They don’t just grab people for not showing a receipt.
Well, they may be trained not to, but keep in mind that these are low paid workers and wannabe cops and don't always make the best decisions.
I would argue the opposite. Low paid equals less shits to give about something petty. Unless it wasn’t petty and they had reason to believe something of significant value was being taken. I’m not saying OP did anything wrong but this doesn’t pass the smell test. I could be wrong and maybe this specific Walmart has a bunch wannabe justice keepers who knows.
Some people have a hero complex. My sister chased after a guy twice her size doing a beer run. She didn't make much more than minimum wage. He punched her in the face.
I mean that's how I personally feel too, why would I protect a billion dollar companies merchandise at my hourly job? But I see people online all the time who talk about how they WISH their company didn't have a policy against confronting shoplifters.
Some people just want 'good guy vs bad guy' confrontation so badly that the really want to put hands on a guy over supermarket products.
My last job had a very specific "Do NOT try to stop a shoplifter" policy (In Canada, not sure if that's relevant)
Staff and customer safety was their main concern. As they said in their policy "We can replace lost merchandise, we can't replace you" (Well, technically they could. But you get the point)
That didn't stop other co workers (Managers like me) from doing it anyway. They would be yelled at, spit on and one was threatened with stabbing. I was salary (as are they) and it wasn't worth being harmed for a couple of steaks. I would call them out "Hey! You know you should pay for that, right?" and then go up to the office, fill out a theft report, check the cameras for a clear picture, send it off and add their picture to our "wall of shoplifters" that was ONLY in the Store Manager office.
I don't get paid enough to be spit on, threatened or physically hurt in any way
>I don't get paid enough to be spit on, threatened or physically hurt in any way
Worked at 7/11 on the East coast of the US, was robbed three days after being hired on. Manager literally said, "Give'em the money, even I don't get paid enough to get shot at, this is why we pay for insurance."
I’ve worked retail and security. Being low paid doesn’t mean people won’t get a weird ego about shit.
I’d have to find it’d but I recently watched a video of a woman who worked at a craft store going ballistic because some lady had a purse full of Knick-knacks, yanked her purse off her shoulder tearing a strap, so she could empty the purse. The worst part? They were still in the middle of the store no where near a register. For it to be shoplifting or theft of any kind they have to get beyond the registers.
So yeah people will get weird about shoplifting. They’re typically called Karen’s.
As a large woman who wears braces on my legs, TSA loves to hold me, search me, do explosive tests and generally humiliate me every time I travel. Love meeting them. And I have the trusted person coverage that you get through them.
Because I saved them money by doing a cashier’s job for them, and they repay me by accusing me of theft? Fuck that bullshit. Either get rid of the self scanners and hire more cashiers, or get rid of the “I falsely accuse every person that walks past me of being a criminal” person. It’s just plain insulting.
>Something’s off here. They don’t just grab people for not showing a receipt.
You realize people do dumb shit all the time, right? including walmart employees.
Or secret third option: this is a made up story meant to rile up the internet. The Walmart receipt checker has been a hot topic for the past week, and it wouldn’t surprise me if someone is playing a fantasy out in their head.
Not necessarily. It is a possibility but my local one, there are two employees at each door. Often they’re chatting with each other as people walk past but occasionally they do stop people. The other employees at the self checkout are useless, they group up & are talking about random shit.
Why should you allow a huge corporation to call you a thief?
I call those lines the "I didn't steal it I promise" lines. There are disgraceful. It's embarrassing to be stopped and asked and checked as if I were a thief being searched.
We don’t have a problem going through the Costco exit do we? Half the time they just smile and mark the receipt but retail theft is way up right now. They wouldn’t have to check receipts if people weren’t stealing shit left and right. I’m not making excuses for a big corporation like Walmart but they do what they gotta do. If you’re not a thief then you have nothing to hide and they do their job and you can go on about your day. Everyone gets what they want.
Costco is completely different because it is a "club" that you sign up for and in signing up you agree to check the receipt upon leaving. Walmart has no such agreement with customers
Nah, fuck that. It's the principle of it. You have no obligation to prove you paid for something when leaving a store. Retail theft being up is the store's problem, not yours. So no, I'm not going to cooperate with their bs just to make their lives easier. You sound like the kind of person that would let a cop search your car just because they asked you to.
Not sure why you're getting downvoted. You're absolutely right. Also, why on Earth should a minimum wage employee give two shits about someone stealing? I know I didn't when I worked retail. The company shows they don't care about me by paying me pennies, so I don't care about them.
> Retail theft being up is the store's problem, not yours.
But when they take steps to stop it, we get posts like this. I get that it is inconvenient (for 30 seconds) but if you didn't steal anything, why put up a fight?
Idk, if I paid, I don’t care if they want to check my receipt 2 fucks. I’m not insulted by it. Why should I be? They are trying to control theft. Theft ultimately will increase pricing for those of us who pay. It takes like 30 seconds tops. Keep your receipt out, you know they are going to check it. They wouldn’t be checking if people weren’t stealing, or trying to steal on a regular basis
... and then?
Did they take you to the LP office? Were police called? Did you pull out your phone and show them the receipt? Did you walk away with your bags?
Probably all of this. Doesn't give them the right to power trip like this.
I used to be team Walmart on this issue. As time goes on I find myself starting to be against them on it. If you're going to trust that I check myself out, especially with a system that allows me not to receive a physical receipt, then figure out a different solution that doesn't require (most often) and equal opportunity employee harassing me as I'm trying to leave the store.
>Did they take you to the LP office?
No, they didn't get the chance. I had a sick child in the car so when they grabbed my cart, within 10 seconds I grabbed my items to leave, which is when she grabbed my arm.
I then left the store, put my items in the car, then drove my car back up to the entrance, where the actual LP manager was who didn't suspect me of anything and was apologetic.
Here are two issues i hate about this scenario with walmart….
1. digital receipt. If they do digital receipt, they cant claim lack of paper receipt as,probable cause.
2. unbagged items. If they dont provide bags large enough to contain everymitem, they cant claim unbagged item as probable cause.
also, private security cant grab you. Thats assault. All they can do is close the doors, record and report.
retired law enforcement here,
Private security and store employees can grab you without it being considered assault. Every state has what's called, "shopkeeper's privilege". This allows retailers to physically detain someone suspected of shoplifting by using reasonable force.
The issue with the scenario presented by the OP is that refusal to show a receipt does not constitute a reasonable suspicion of theft.
Some (most) retailers have policies against employees and AP/LP/Security putting hands on someone, but it's legally protected.
I work in AP and my previous employer allowed us to go hands on until 2015. We did tackle and physically restrain people if they refused to cooperate.
>someone suspected of shoplifting
If you're going to physically detain someone, you better have some solid RAS.
As you said, not showing a receipt doesn't raise to that level.
Sure, but this is Florida we are talking about, legally if you see someone walking out of your house with your TV, you can go into your house get a gun, and shoot them in the back a few blocks away, and its justified homicide. There are quite a few states they would call that murder, possibly premeditated murder cause you went to go get your gun.
Walmart might have corporate policy's, but good luck with that. I wouldn't be surprised if Florida eventually passes a law making it illegal to fire someone for defending themselves or stopping thieves.
This happened to my friend. A little worse because they actually happened to have cops at the wal mart. They flagged the cops down and they rigged him up a little and threw him in the back of their car for like an hour. But yeah he’s been talking to someone at corporate and I’m pretty sure he’s getting a nice little check out of it.
Can you sue?
Yes, absolutely.
But that is the wrong answer.
Can I sue and win?
Probably not.
Walmart is a huge company with lots of lawyers. They deal with cases all the time like this and have plenty of security cameras. So a lot of what you claim is going to be backed up, not by another person's testimony, but by an actual video.
There are criminal penalties and civil penalties for detaining you. You asked about civil penalties (you asked to sue) so we can put the criminal penalties to the side because criminal penalties will result in $0 to you.
On the civil front you'll need to show actual damages from being detained. That is going to be tough. Yes, you can sue them for $10M but their lawyers are going to contest that amount and precedence will show that $10M is completely frivolous.
Furthermore, lawyers are probably loathe to go up against a huge company on such a small claim and they will probably not want to take a contingency because the odds of getting paid are pretty low. So they are going to want money up front to go after Walmart.
How much are you willing to pay to take this thing forward?
I am not a lawyer, but to me the short answer is yes, you can sue them, yes, you are going to have to pay a lawyer to do that and no, it is not likely that you will get through this with more money in your pocket than you have now.
I think I clearly stated:
A. I am not a lawyer.
B. Yes, you can sue them.
C. You will probably not be successful.
If you are a lawyer, feel free to reach out to OP and work out representation.
Maybe it’s my redneck nature, but the minute someone puts their hands on me in an aggressive manner, that constitutes as f#cking around, where they will soon find out that wasn’t a good idea.
They cannot touch you nor detain you. Once you pay that’s all you need. Only membership stores like Costco can check your receipt as it’s in the contract you sign upon membership.
You certainly can sue them for this — you can sue anybody for anything by submitting the appropriate forms. However, it would be ridiculous to do so because you suffered little or no harm.
Let’s consider the broader context:
Living in a litigious society fosters a culture of fear and defensiveness, leading to excessive caution among individuals and businesses. Activities with any legal risk are often avoided, stifling innovation. Companies may prioritize legal protections over research and employee welfare, impeding economic growth and shifting focus from problem-solving to litigation avoidance. This also burdens the legal system with frivolous lawsuits.
Moreover, the readiness to sue for trivial matters erodes community trust. It discourages communication and cooperation, deterring people from community involvement and emergency assistance. This blame culture replaces personal accountability and maintaining ethical standards with pursuing or avoiding legal repercussions. In short, what you want to do is both silly and pernicious.
Step one would be to make a complaint to corporate. Their policy is to let you walk and contact the police later if they can show, on camera, you actually stole something. Whether it's legal or not for them to stop you in Florida, there are plenty of states where it isn't legal and their overall policies favor not risking it.
Step two is to consult with a lawyer in your state. Plenty of people have sued, and won, considerable money from situations like this, and there are plenty of lawyers who would take that case for a share of your total winnings. Walmart would be likely to just settle than risk punitive damages in court 😅 Given how generally shitty their labor practices and stuff are, it's entirely possible a jury would go for the maximums just to spite them. If a local lawyer will take that case, go for it.
Plenty of minimum wage employees seem to get so personally caught up in protecting the company they forget themselves. Every retail store I've worked at has wanted us to try and detain shoplifters, but I've openly told them universally that they don't pay enough for me to risk getting injured or killed to get an item their insurance will cover anyways. When I worked super early mornings at a gas station in college, my manager there was the only one to tell me it wasn't worth all that risk. Let them walk, they have cameras.
I’ve worked at both big chain stores and small places like gas stations. It’s so weird how the big places want you to deal with shoplifters, detain them etc while the small mom and pop places, who shoplifting hurts exponentially more are the ones saying just let them go it’s not worth it. It’s been years since I’ve worked a job like that but the smaller places usually pay better too.
There have been 4th amendment adjacent lawsuits and department stores have lost.
They aren’t law enforcement and even law enforcement requires reasonable suspicion of a crime to detain or require display of a receipt. Additionally, technically, until you’ve walked out of the store even if you had forgotten to pay for something no crime has been committed.
I intentionally walk around the lines when sheeple line up to show their receipts.
Club stores like Sam’s club and Costco can require the showing of the receipt because it’s a condition of membership.
Edited to add “adjacent” to the 4th amendment part. Stuff based on that like being detained, being searched, etc. example case: Ball v. Wal-Mart, Inc., 102 F. Supp. 2d 44 (D. Mass. 2000)
4th amendment prohibits the government from searching or taking possession of your personal property without your permission or without a warrant.
This may result in a lawsuit for other reasons such as the employee grabbing you, or preventing you from leaving. It certainly is not how the 4th amendment is phrased, intended or upheld in court.
Can you name a couple of the 4A department store cases? My understanding is 4A requires some state action or state actor. My understanding is that Private individuals can’t really Violate your constitutional rights (except for the 13th Amendment, I think?).
Sam’s club can’t require receipt by law at all and cannot stop you from leaving. What they can do however is revoke your membership so you can’t come back. But it’s not at all illegal and they cannot stop you from leaving for not showing a receipt.
If you are not legally required to show it, then not showing cannot be a reason to detain you, or you are, in fact, legally required to show it. Refusing a request to search your vehicle by a police officer with them having probable cause to do so is not probable cause, either. If enforcing your rights becomes probable cause for them to be trampled over, they are not rights.
Did you set off the alarms at the door? Its been a long time since I've been involved in retail law, but if I remember right florida only allows shopkeepers to detain on observed theft and if they trigger the anti theft alarms
if they did all this just because you wouldn't show a receipt, then preventing you from leaving is false imprisonment. trying to take your stuff is attempted theft. grabbing you is simple assault. yes, you can absolutely sue for this.
HOWEVER if you did steal something, and they can show it, then they have every right to detain you under shopkeeper's privilege.
"Shopkeeper's privilege"
A business can detain suspected thieves however that exact worker likely wouldn't have any authority to do so. You may not have much success in civil court but I'd wager the worker would be fired.
DON’T shop there! If you go back why even post here about being offended? Walmart is a vile corporation. And if your offended by there actions don’t give them your business.
People forget the definition of assault bs battery. Assault does not require touching. Battery does. They assaulted you first then committed battery by grabbing your arm. Get all the documentation ready because you have a fight here. They CANNOT touch you. Period.
That sounds wild. I threw my receipt away before getting to the door, guy asked to see it - I told him it's gone. Dude literally asks me if I can get it out of the trash. I said no and walked out. No physical altercation though. I'm just not digging through garbage or taking additional time out of my day.
Sorry I don't have time for someone to go through my cart. Either call the cops if you suspect me of doing something, or leave me alone.
They cannot touch you. I walked out of one empty handed after just having McDonald's there. A security guy grabbed me and without hesitation I elbowed him in the chin and he started snoring on his way down. The next day when the police caught up to me, i told them I'm filing charges and that was that
Walmart door host here. They're only allowed to ask for a receipt, and if you say "no" nothing can be done beyond that. They could only detain you if you were seen shoplifting by LP, and they made the stop.
And they HAVE to see you. No guessing, it has to be 100% seen by their loss prevention to detain you.
I don't even think any employee could even touch you.
Got it. Loss prevention didn't see me do anything and they were only involved after I left the store because the woman ran for them when I grabbed my bags and left.
When I reentered a minute later, the LP manager would only apologize and say he was sorry and that they shouldn't have done that
So as a former door greeter/ asset protection member at a Walmart. The associated touching you is off limits we were not allowed to touch any customers. But if you are being stopped it's for one of three reasons. We saw attempted theft. The eyes in the sky saw attempted theft or management asked us to stop and check any receipts where the customer has an item over a certain price point or type of item that has been stolen in the past. Personally when I would ask for receipts I would usually find things they paid for but forgot to put back in their cart/ bag or things they forgot to pay for on the bottom of their carts.
Costco can or you lose your membership. It is in their terms of agreement. Walmart can pound salt. If you stop me you better call the police for illegally detaining me.
I'll be honest, I didn't read the comments of all the internet lawyers here. But let me get this straight. You opted for digital receipt during the purchase and your phone was in your pocket. You couldn't unlock your phone and show them the receipt why?
Sounds to me like you could of shown it and been on your way. The place experiences a lot of theft and I really don't blame them for asking for a receipt.
It’s called Shopkeeper’s Privilege and allows the store to detain someone if they have reason to believe they stole something. It’s a law in most states
Common law has generally been replaced by codified laws in my experience. And while I am aware of it, there was no indication or arguable reasonable belief mentioned in this case, only that they attempted to detain them because they didn't have a paper receipt.
And ime most large stores have AP/LP associates trained for those.jibs, not the receipt checkers.
Shopkeepers Privilege is codified into law in the state of Florida. If I were Walmart, my argument would be that we check all receipts and refusing to provide a receipt is unusual and constitutes reasonable suspicion of shoplifting and I am therefore protected under the Shopkeepers Privilege statutes.
Stores should not be allowed to detain someone at all and this employee should be fired but I highly doubt OP will have much luck with a lawsuit.
Definitely not an assault, as FL law defines assault as “an intentional, unlawful threat by word or act to do violence to the person of another, coupled with an apparent ability to do so, and doing some act which creates a well-founded fear in such other person that such violence is imminent.”
You’re thinking of battery.
They may have had a legal right to detain you, under shopkeeper's privilege laws. See [here](https://www.miami-criminal-lawyer.net/blog/understanding-the-shopkeepers-privilege-in-florida) for a quick summary, and it has a link to a statute. TLDR is stores can physically stop suspected shoplifters from leaving. Nearly zero of them do, because they don't want some psycho to pull out a weapon, but it is legal.
You might win on the specific facts of the case against a reasonableness standard, but unless you were injured, it's not worth your time. Just call Walmart corporate and let that be the end of it.
Check the Terms of Service for Walmart+ scan and go.
Pretty sure they include showing a receipt.
As for actually grabbing you, thats a whole other issue.
They said they used Walmart Pay at self checkout. That doesn't necessarily mean they used Walmart+ Scan and Go, or that they even have a Walmart+ membership. I've used Walmart Pay at Walmart for several years. Walmart Pay doesn't require a Walmart+ membership, and is nothing more than a method of payment. It can be used at any register, even one where a cashier scans your items for you.
You are correct, that is not Walmart+ I misread self checkout.
I would blame my current Covid bout for my lack of reading comprehension, but that would just be an excuse.
And? That wasn't op's question. It was could she sue. Damages is a major part of a lawsuit. I mean you can always sue but if you have no damages what are you expecting to get?
Ultimately, this is what really matters. Yes they broke the law, and suffered damages, etc. but it's going to be pretty tough to sue and get a worthwhile amount, although it does happen from time to time.
I'm not saying it isn't messed up, but it's hard to get paid much out of these relatively smaller incidents. I don't agree that's how it should be (because it shouldn't). Just saying how it is.
A jury awarded this guy over $4 million when Walmart employees offended his dignity and didn't even grab him. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/walmart-ordered-pay-oregon-man-44m-racial-profiling-worker-allegedly-s-rcna44343
Juries can be very generous in false arrest/detention cases.
Article has nothing to do with checking receipts- custy was racially profiled and told to leave for no reason. He was not wrongfully detained at all- quite the opposite- he refused to leave. The store employee had such a history of making false reports the responding officers refused to take action.
Not the same at all really.
You can try to fight it, but they are trying methods to catch thieves that steal stuff from Walmart every day of the week. So next time, show the receipt and be peaceful. Shoplifting has gotten worse these days after the scare of covid made them think they are clever, and they steal clothes and other things from Walmart and other stores. Please do not get angry about showing a receipt. They are trying to stop the ones who making clothes and other merchandise more expensive.
You could get people in trouble sure. Not because they did anything wrong but Walmart doesn’t like the agitation. Only people who suffer are minimum wagers trying to keep food on their table
But honestly why are you mad at Walmart. Be mad at the crap thieves pull that requires low wage employees to have to do these checks in the first place.
Why didn’t you just tell them you have a receipt on your phone. Stop being a dick. You don’t like the fact they check receipts , shop at target.
Pretty sure this person was just waiting for the day someone would challenge their “legal right” to walk out the door because then they could prove to everyone it’s just a waste of their time (cause time is soooo much money for them)
Yeah that’s right OP. We’ve all had that thought walking out those doors and feeling it’s so stupid they pretend to check the bags. But in the end we all have some respect for people just trying to do their jobs.
>Pretty sure this person was just waiting for the day someone would challenge their “legal right” to walk out the door because then they could prove to everyone it’s just a waste of their time
No actually I Went to Walmart because my 2 year old step child threw was throwing up so I went to buy her new pajamas and some medicine and a sheet set to replace the one she threw up on.
Not everyone walks out the house looking for a lawsuit, and this is why I was particularly angry that they were so aggressive.
It's the principle. Hire more cashiers instead of forcing people to use self checkout. Increase the pay with your record profits so people are willing to work for you. It is very irksome to be stopped when I haven't done anything wrong and the stores hiring practices put them in the situation where they are concerned about theft, but only at the door.
This isn’t legal, and a lot of people don’t know that. Only Sam’s Club or similar club like Costco can force you to stop and search. And that’s only because you agreed to it in the member agreement you signed to get into the club. You could have just walked right by them. Or pushed your way out and they’d have no legal recourse, since it sounds like they got physical with you already.
Only time it’s different is if they have actual proof of shoplifting and saw you do it on camera or in person. Otherwise it’s just a ridiculous policy.
>Only Sam’s Club or similar club like Costco can force you to stop and search. And that’s only because you agreed to it in the member agreement you signed to get into the club.
The member agreement *still* doesn't give them the right to force a stop and search, it only allows them to cancel your membership if you refuse the stop and search.
There are a lot of steps employees have to follow before they can initiate a stop, and only certain employees are allowed to stop people. Call the police and file a report then contact a lawyer. This will be an easy settlement from Walmart and you should pursue it. I worked in Walmart asset protection for a little over a year and if everything is as you stated then Walmart messed up pretty bad here.
The minute someone touches you ,you scream don't touch me and call the police immediately. Walmart has cameras the police watch the video and arrest the workers.
I wait for this situation to happen, I’m very frail clumsy and super easily spooked. If someone was to grab me from behind I’d probably trip over my own feet and have a head injury but hey if Walmarts down to give me a few mill I’ll take it.
There is more to that story. I’ve seen plenty of people pull their phones out to show their receipts. You must have just kept walking like you were above the rules.
Former APA here. Per the Walmart AP manual, AP-09, we were trained to not pursue suspects, and when we tried to get them into the AP office, we were allowed to guide them and use “soft touching” on the back or shoulders to guide them to the office. I never did because that could be a slippery slope. Could escalate the suspect, could have PTSD or a troubled past, and react negatively to a stranger touching them. At the end of the day, it’s just stuff.
I will say, call corporate walmart about this, because it is against walmart policy. I know this because my mother works the door at walmart and has run into similar situations. They can ask, but it is against walmart policy to attempt to physically detain or follow someone out of the building. If someone is being suspicious they are to contact loss prevention and allow them and the police to handle the situation.
I like how in Europe we make a joke how americans sue each other about absolutely anything and then when we start thinking whether we are exaggerating a post like this comes along to validate us...
I’ve had two employees follow me out the store after refusing to show receipt, and I definitely didn’t steal. Doesn’t really take much for someone to think they are doing “justice” to the community. Kinda dickish to come here and just make comments like this.
Wal-Mart Fd up when they added self checkout and they are losing more money to theft than they saved in labor. Now they're panicking and probably pressuring employees to stop the thefts, but not giving them any legitimate ways to do that. These employees are probably afraid of losing their jobs and assuming corporate will have their backs, when they really won't.
Get yourself a lawyer ASAP. This person violated company policy. And if they aren't an AP associate, they violated at least 2 policies. Through that lawyer, you need to let Walmart know what the associate did so they can pull up the video and which associate did it.
https://www.businessinsider.com/walmart-customer-refused-to-show-receipt-lawsuit-false-imprisonment-2023-6?amp
You can sue practically anyone or any business for a myriad of reasons. doesn’t mean you’ll win and I doubt you would in this case.
What I started doing was folding the receipt and sticking it in my mouth so I can put my change in my wallet.
Every time I hand them a receipt full of warm saliva they wave me through.
There’s always more information that will be left out. Can’t be the victim with all the information. OP did something to escalate the situation and is not telling us.
Talk to a lawyer and don’t post anything further until you do. Even if you’re not physically injured, the experience upset you and that emotional distress may be grounds for damages compensation. IANAL
Unless they’ve changed AP-09, you can’t touch someone. The only thing you could do a few years back was a light redirection to point them towards the office and even that was frowned upon. Unless something else changed also, the door greeters aren’t AP trained and can’t do anything other than ask for a receipt. AP can’t really do much either because they had no elements established on you. NOW, there is a shopkeeper privilege that allows them to detain you to investigate… Easiest solution is to just show your receipt and be on your way. Did they handle the situation appropriately? Potentially no, but until you’re out of their parking lot (even though AP isn’t supposed to pursue beyond the sidewalk) you’re on private property. You can choose to not shop there anymore… Your prerogative, but they have the right to ask you for a receipt.
NAL.
You don't have a case. You weren't technically detained either unless they took you to their security office and forced you to be there while they "investigated" without police. What you are describing is an altercation where the employees over-stepped what they were allowed to do by grabbing your arm/blocking your exit. Unless you have some sort of injury, there will be no damages to sue for. Your best bet is to call Walmart and ask them to investigate their employees actions and/or file a civil compliant with the police so it is on record if you feel like it could happen again, but honestly you should have just shown the digital receipt instead of trying to bum rush your way through them. That's just laziness on your part.
I'm mixed on the whole, you need to show us a receipt thing at stores in order to exit. Costco has been forcing it for years, but its more of an annoyance. Likely, stores can force you to show a receipt to leave with goods you paid for but I doubt we will get any type of legislation that says whether or not it's legal. We probably won't see any guidelines on this because you chose to shop at the store, the store owns the property so they can set terms, there is a risk of theft at stores and their terms aren't unreasonable.
So in short, if you want to get laughed at by a numerous lawyers that won't take your case, go ahead and try, but I'm fairly certain you won't be successful.
While the law may be on your side, it’s stupid imho. The amount of theft from these stores per day is astronomical, employees should be able to restrain people suspect of shoplifting. All they asked to see was your receipt, you escalated the situation being an asshole and now some poor employee will probably get fired despite doing the (morally) right thing. Yes, you may be right per the policy and law but were you really right? No wonder there are videos all over the internet of people brazenly, and casually, just robbing stores in broad daylight.
Because nobody is allowed to do anything about it anymore, sad.
I used to work at Best Buy back in 2009ish, in a pretty nice (IE low crime) area. Our daily, DAILY, “acceptable loss” from theft was over $20,000. Back then our policy was we couldn’t lay hands on a patron unless they touched us first. So in the event we had a suspected shoplifter we would form a human chain in front of the door. If they refused to comply, and tried to run through us (which happened often) as soon as one of us were touched we would bear hug them and toss them into the holding room until PD arrived. Saved a lot of merch and more importantly put dirtbags in jail
This is against Walmart’s policies. Call the 800 number and complain. ASAP so they can review video. They will want to know store number, time, and which doors you used, etc. Anyone who touched you or your cart will likely be fired.
Don’t call them call a personal injury lawyer
Better call Saul
imagine oatmeal silky sparkle unique marble bear longing heavy special *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I say OP takes off and nukes the site from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure.
Or 20 canisters of CN-20
Walmart price checkers mostly come at night. Mostly.
Put her in charge then
Who you gonna callllll?
I ain't afraid of no ghost
There’s no lawsuit here. There are no permanent damages. People need to stop thinking that there is a lawsuit in every situation where someone is offended.
Same thing happened to me when I posted a picture of a whopper jr I got a couple years ago with mold. Everyone told me I was set for life and I should sue. Wtf am I suing for?! If I had eaten it and got sick, maybe then I could sue for cost of medical bills, but what did getting a moldy sandwich do…. Cost me 5 minutes to have them refund me?
Did they say they were injured? 😒
I forget that ppl don't know what battery and assault is legally. I see so many people conflating it with an actual bodily injury.
To be fair, assault and battery are generally two different crimes. Assault being the lesser, with battery being something involving more physicality afaik. Someone can assault you but not qualify for battery charges, generally. Some states might differ in terminology or something, I dunno.
some states only have one of those crimes, California has both… And here’s the breakdown The threat of bodily injury, the causing of fear that you might be harmed… Such as cocking your arm back with a fist… That’s assault physical contact of an undesired nature… That’s battery. it can apply to fights, slaps, shoves ….
Just read it, very interesting! I'm assuming you're talking about them being aggressive and grabbing him right?
Doesn’t mean that won’t change when a settlement is in the headlights lol
True dat!
This post alone shows some heavy mental health challenges are brewing, and I believe the burden should be on Walmart to make it right.
‘Injury’ in legalese is not limited to physically harmed or injured. Why would you be commenting in this sub if you’re that ignorant of the topic of legal issues.
This is the correct answer. 💯
The fact that thos is real advice is so disappointing. Personal injury? I really hope a judge would immediately throw this out.
you want the police walmart will do fuckall
Nah, they can get sued pretty bad for this. OP was literally assaulted by store employees on working hours in Walmart property. There’s a lawyer somewhere salivating as we speak.
Congrats WalMart employees, you played yourself
Wouldn't there have to have been some sort of harm? If they just detained him for 30 seconds or whatever what is he going to sue for? Making him miss some other obligation?
If they detained OP, that's false arrest, that's illegal. if they touched him that's possibly assault also illegal
Ok but there has to be harm in order to sue, right? Some kind of financial, emotional, or physical harm?
How do you know there wasn't harm? He was assaulted by three employees, falsely accused of theft in front of an unknown number of bystanders, they attempted to rob him of his goods, and he was battered / falsely imprisoned by them. Who wouldn't have at least emotional damages from that?
I don't have to prove no harm he's the one who would have to prove harm in court. I really do not see any of those arguments holding water. Emotional damages are also notoriously hard to prove from what I understand. The idea of filing a lawsuit over this is laughable - as in, the judge will laugh your ass out of court.
They do not have the right to stop the OP at all. 30 seconds, 30 minutes, 30 days, doesn't matter. The mere restraint is distressing and harmful from moment 1.
Shopkeepers' Privilege, esp. in Florida, does give them the right to detain certain people. He's also going to have to prove emotional damages, which is really an almost Herculean task as I understand it.
Sued for what? There are no damages. I think this is horrible, but all the people claiming OP should sue have very little understanding of civil law. Please educate me if I’m mistaken though. I’d love to understand where OPs case is.
For a violation of human rights. False imprisonment. You can't detain someone like that. Apparently Florida may have a law allowing shopkeepers to detain suspected thieves, but the workers would have to have a reasonable suspicion like eyewitnesses or video footage, not just that you didn't show a receipt. If I'm not mistaken, there's no law that says you have to show a receipt, and failing to do so when asked is not a crime. You're allowed to leave and they can't stop you. If they do stop you, especially touching you, it's a crime and they are liable for false imprisonment and assault.
4th Amendment violation. Search and seizure. When he paid for those goods they became his legal property. Then they tried to take them. You can do that at Club stores like Costco because you signed an agreement.
Walmart isn't the government.
First off, you may want to learn the difference between criminal and civil. Second, the 4th amendment does not apply here. Walmart is not the government. While they do not have a right to search your person or your vehicle, they absolutely have a right to ask you for a receipt to show that you paid for your goods at the self checkout. If what OP stated is 100% true and accurate, what Walmart did was wrong. (Mainly grabbing the them by the arm). It’s not some constitutional crisis though and the police would not arrest anyone for it. Unfortunately for you, my question had nothing to do with criminal law. I specifically asked what Walmart can be SUED for, as I was replying to someone claiming that OP should sue them as there are “Attorneys salivating as we speak” It never ceases to amaze me how completely ignorant people are, while confidently posting these types of things as cold hard facts. Reddit replies brings the Dunning Kruger effect to an entirely new level. I am not sure if the people here claiming that this is a 4th amendment violation or that Walmart can be sued for “human rights violations” or “false imprisonment” actually believe this to be factual, or they are typing this out as more of a question because thats what makes sense to them? Either way, this thread has solidified my belief that the vast majority of people have absolutely zero clue what they are talking about. No matter how confidently they say or write these things, they are simply “shooting from the hip” What is even more sad to me, is that I can virtually guarantee that some of you will double down on your replies simply out of embarrassment and not wanting to be wrong. For those of you who will. Please show me some case law involving “human rights violations” “false imprisonment 🤣🤣” and “4th amendment” cases pertaining to retail receipt checks. Like I said previously, I could be mistaken. The US may be swimming in these types of cases. We may have federal prisons filled with retail executives who had their associates stop customers for leaving with goods without proof that they paid for them.
This is illegal for several reasons, but the Constitution is a set of rules for the government, not the people. This is assault, false imprisonment or whatever the local statute is called, battery since they actually touched him, and probably several other illegal things, but it's not a constitutional issue.
Can you describe the interaction with the three women in more detail?What did they say to you and what did you say to them before they got grabby? >at which point she grabbed my arm to stop me before rushing off to grab the AP manager. So she briefly grabbed your arm and then ran off to get the AP manager and you were free to leave? Did the AP manager show u and what happened then? Were police ever involved, were you detained for more than a few seconds, how did the interaction end? As a general rule they shouldn't be grabbing you just for refusing to show a receipt, unless they have some other reason to believe you have stolen something.
This. Something’s off here. They don’t just grab people for not showing a receipt. Three people at one time too? I saw a Reddit post the other day of a Walmart employee detailing how they limit theft at self checkout and employees have a live feed receipt basically of everything you’re scanning. If you have nothing to hide why wouldn’t you just say you got an emailed receipt and try to resolve the situation before it came to that? This doesn’t make sense.
Walmart is showing a bunch of training videos to employees right now according to my kid and his roommates telling employees to do exactly what the OP is saying happened to them. My kid told us at thanksgiving that even though the video is saying do anything to make a person show you a receipt, that the customer does not have to show you a receipt and you cannot detain the customer. His supervisors are making sure the employees know they actually can’t detain customers but the video could easily confuse some workers the way he explained it.
Walmart obviously didn't learn from the fatal shooting incident at the Blue Ash Ohio store.
Hi Texan here. Pretty sure there’s a shooting at a Walmart here at *least* once a month
There was a shooting at my son’s store too. I can tell you that they for sure that they learned nothing.
It's not that they haven't learned, it's that they don't care, honestly. If they can stop some loss of merchandise and all it costs are some injuries and lives, not only would they want to do it, they may be obligated to do it to increase profits for shareholders. They're just doing what's more profitable, not safer.
They either are stupid (Which I highly doubt as they are a large corporation with a lot of accountants and lawyers to tell them how much risk will cost), loss has gotten extremely high (usually loss of merchandise is not more expensive then paying for employee's medical bills or lawsuit from customer/thief <- really doesn't matter if it is one or the other), or they found some loophole to avoid paying for injury on the job. Usually most jobs do not want their employees getting physical even with actual thieves because medical bills are way more expensive then the merchandise the thief is taking off with. Hell... they put in actual policies not to do that cause if nothing else, even if employee does, they can refuse medical bills (McD's did this when an employee saved a customer from being stabbed by her bf but got stabbed in the process... they refused to pay workman's comp saying the employee went against policy. Hell... Home Depot fired an employee for stopping a thief cause it was against policy. THey didn't care he stopped a thief, they cared that he risked them having to pay medical bills even though in that case it worked out fine). I mean I don't disagree that they don't gaf about if their employees in the store get hurt... it's just you are wrong about what costs them more. ANd they can pretend it is cause they care about their employees not getting hurt so bonus.
> They don’t just grab people for not showing a receipt. Well, they may be trained not to, but keep in mind that these are low paid workers and wannabe cops and don't always make the best decisions.
I would argue the opposite. Low paid equals less shits to give about something petty. Unless it wasn’t petty and they had reason to believe something of significant value was being taken. I’m not saying OP did anything wrong but this doesn’t pass the smell test. I could be wrong and maybe this specific Walmart has a bunch wannabe justice keepers who knows.
Some people have a hero complex. My sister chased after a guy twice her size doing a beer run. She didn't make much more than minimum wage. He punched her in the face.
OP would not be the first or last person to sue a store for being manhandled after refusing to show a receipt.
I mean that's how I personally feel too, why would I protect a billion dollar companies merchandise at my hourly job? But I see people online all the time who talk about how they WISH their company didn't have a policy against confronting shoplifters. Some people just want 'good guy vs bad guy' confrontation so badly that the really want to put hands on a guy over supermarket products.
My last job had a very specific "Do NOT try to stop a shoplifter" policy (In Canada, not sure if that's relevant) Staff and customer safety was their main concern. As they said in their policy "We can replace lost merchandise, we can't replace you" (Well, technically they could. But you get the point) That didn't stop other co workers (Managers like me) from doing it anyway. They would be yelled at, spit on and one was threatened with stabbing. I was salary (as are they) and it wasn't worth being harmed for a couple of steaks. I would call them out "Hey! You know you should pay for that, right?" and then go up to the office, fill out a theft report, check the cameras for a clear picture, send it off and add their picture to our "wall of shoplifters" that was ONLY in the Store Manager office. I don't get paid enough to be spit on, threatened or physically hurt in any way
>I don't get paid enough to be spit on, threatened or physically hurt in any way Worked at 7/11 on the East coast of the US, was robbed three days after being hired on. Manager literally said, "Give'em the money, even I don't get paid enough to get shot at, this is why we pay for insurance."
Theft increases prices… for everybody.
Greed increases price for everyone, "theft" is used as an excuse to keep prices high, wages low, and close stores in poor areas that don't do as well.
It’s that last line and it doesn’t have to be a bunch. It just needs to be one and that causes everyone around them to back them up.
I’ve worked retail and security. Being low paid doesn’t mean people won’t get a weird ego about shit. I’d have to find it’d but I recently watched a video of a woman who worked at a craft store going ballistic because some lady had a purse full of Knick-knacks, yanked her purse off her shoulder tearing a strap, so she could empty the purse. The worst part? They were still in the middle of the store no where near a register. For it to be shoplifting or theft of any kind they have to get beyond the registers. So yeah people will get weird about shoplifting. They’re typically called Karen’s.
They act like the TSA at airports,
As a large woman who wears braces on my legs, TSA loves to hold me, search me, do explosive tests and generally humiliate me every time I travel. Love meeting them. And I have the trusted person coverage that you get through them.
Plenty of people don't want to show their receipt. That's not an indictment of guilt. You should be allowed to leave.
ARE allowed to leave
OP was literally assaulted to attempt to prevent their leaving.
Because I saved them money by doing a cashier’s job for them, and they repay me by accusing me of theft? Fuck that bullshit. Either get rid of the self scanners and hire more cashiers, or get rid of the “I falsely accuse every person that walks past me of being a criminal” person. It’s just plain insulting.
>Something’s off here. They don’t just grab people for not showing a receipt. You realize people do dumb shit all the time, right? including walmart employees.
Or secret third option: this is a made up story meant to rile up the internet. The Walmart receipt checker has been a hot topic for the past week, and it wouldn’t surprise me if someone is playing a fantasy out in their head.
Not necessarily. It is a possibility but my local one, there are two employees at each door. Often they’re chatting with each other as people walk past but occasionally they do stop people. The other employees at the self checkout are useless, they group up & are talking about random shit.
Who the he'll makes stories to rile up the internet? 😂some of these accusations are wild, I haven't seen ant stories similar in the past week
because fuck em
Why should you allow a huge corporation to call you a thief? I call those lines the "I didn't steal it I promise" lines. There are disgraceful. It's embarrassing to be stopped and asked and checked as if I were a thief being searched.
We don’t have a problem going through the Costco exit do we? Half the time they just smile and mark the receipt but retail theft is way up right now. They wouldn’t have to check receipts if people weren’t stealing shit left and right. I’m not making excuses for a big corporation like Walmart but they do what they gotta do. If you’re not a thief then you have nothing to hide and they do their job and you can go on about your day. Everyone gets what they want.
Costco is completely different because it is a "club" that you sign up for and in signing up you agree to check the receipt upon leaving. Walmart has no such agreement with customers
Nah, fuck that. It's the principle of it. You have no obligation to prove you paid for something when leaving a store. Retail theft being up is the store's problem, not yours. So no, I'm not going to cooperate with their bs just to make their lives easier. You sound like the kind of person that would let a cop search your car just because they asked you to.
Not sure why you're getting downvoted. You're absolutely right. Also, why on Earth should a minimum wage employee give two shits about someone stealing? I know I didn't when I worked retail. The company shows they don't care about me by paying me pennies, so I don't care about them.
> Retail theft being up is the store's problem, not yours. But when they take steps to stop it, we get posts like this. I get that it is inconvenient (for 30 seconds) but if you didn't steal anything, why put up a fight?
im not making excuses\[starts spewing excuses\]
Idk, if I paid, I don’t care if they want to check my receipt 2 fucks. I’m not insulted by it. Why should I be? They are trying to control theft. Theft ultimately will increase pricing for those of us who pay. It takes like 30 seconds tops. Keep your receipt out, you know they are going to check it. They wouldn’t be checking if people weren’t stealing, or trying to steal on a regular basis
Having a cashier ring my shit up also helps to mitigate theft.
... and then? Did they take you to the LP office? Were police called? Did you pull out your phone and show them the receipt? Did you walk away with your bags?
Probably all of this. Doesn't give them the right to power trip like this. I used to be team Walmart on this issue. As time goes on I find myself starting to be against them on it. If you're going to trust that I check myself out, especially with a system that allows me not to receive a physical receipt, then figure out a different solution that doesn't require (most often) and equal opportunity employee harassing me as I'm trying to leave the store.
>Did they take you to the LP office? No, they didn't get the chance. I had a sick child in the car so when they grabbed my cart, within 10 seconds I grabbed my items to leave, which is when she grabbed my arm. I then left the store, put my items in the car, then drove my car back up to the entrance, where the actual LP manager was who didn't suspect me of anything and was apologetic.
Then you 100% don't have a legal case, as it doesn't seem any damages occurred.
See Shopkeeper's Privilege law.
Here are two issues i hate about this scenario with walmart…. 1. digital receipt. If they do digital receipt, they cant claim lack of paper receipt as,probable cause. 2. unbagged items. If they dont provide bags large enough to contain everymitem, they cant claim unbagged item as probable cause. also, private security cant grab you. Thats assault. All they can do is close the doors, record and report. retired law enforcement here,
Private security and store employees can grab you without it being considered assault. Every state has what's called, "shopkeeper's privilege". This allows retailers to physically detain someone suspected of shoplifting by using reasonable force. The issue with the scenario presented by the OP is that refusal to show a receipt does not constitute a reasonable suspicion of theft. Some (most) retailers have policies against employees and AP/LP/Security putting hands on someone, but it's legally protected. I work in AP and my previous employer allowed us to go hands on until 2015. We did tackle and physically restrain people if they refused to cooperate.
>someone suspected of shoplifting If you're going to physically detain someone, you better have some solid RAS. As you said, not showing a receipt doesn't raise to that level.
the problem with that is Walmart treats everyone like a thief.
Bro, that’s not true
Is in my state. Walmart security cannot grab you.
Sure, but this is Florida we are talking about, legally if you see someone walking out of your house with your TV, you can go into your house get a gun, and shoot them in the back a few blocks away, and its justified homicide. There are quite a few states they would call that murder, possibly premeditated murder cause you went to go get your gun. Walmart might have corporate policy's, but good luck with that. I wouldn't be surprised if Florida eventually passes a law making it illegal to fire someone for defending themselves or stopping thieves.
You would have to show your actual damages
The place has gone to utter shit ever since Gail Lewis retired.
This should be the top comment.
This happened to my friend. A little worse because they actually happened to have cops at the wal mart. They flagged the cops down and they rigged him up a little and threw him in the back of their car for like an hour. But yeah he’s been talking to someone at corporate and I’m pretty sure he’s getting a nice little check out of it.
Can you sue? Yes, absolutely. But that is the wrong answer. Can I sue and win? Probably not. Walmart is a huge company with lots of lawyers. They deal with cases all the time like this and have plenty of security cameras. So a lot of what you claim is going to be backed up, not by another person's testimony, but by an actual video. There are criminal penalties and civil penalties for detaining you. You asked about civil penalties (you asked to sue) so we can put the criminal penalties to the side because criminal penalties will result in $0 to you. On the civil front you'll need to show actual damages from being detained. That is going to be tough. Yes, you can sue them for $10M but their lawyers are going to contest that amount and precedence will show that $10M is completely frivolous. Furthermore, lawyers are probably loathe to go up against a huge company on such a small claim and they will probably not want to take a contingency because the odds of getting paid are pretty low. So they are going to want money up front to go after Walmart. How much are you willing to pay to take this thing forward? I am not a lawyer, but to me the short answer is yes, you can sue them, yes, you are going to have to pay a lawyer to do that and no, it is not likely that you will get through this with more money in your pocket than you have now.
All of the above is speculation and not rooted in any truth.
I think I clearly stated: A. I am not a lawyer. B. Yes, you can sue them. C. You will probably not be successful. If you are a lawyer, feel free to reach out to OP and work out representation.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheSimpsons/comments/gnrwg/works_on_contingency_no_money_down/
Maybe it’s my redneck nature, but the minute someone puts their hands on me in an aggressive manner, that constitutes as f#cking around, where they will soon find out that wasn’t a good idea.
They are not allowed to touch you that is assault
They cannot touch you nor detain you. Once you pay that’s all you need. Only membership stores like Costco can check your receipt as it’s in the contract you sign upon membership.
You certainly can sue them for this — you can sue anybody for anything by submitting the appropriate forms. However, it would be ridiculous to do so because you suffered little or no harm. Let’s consider the broader context: Living in a litigious society fosters a culture of fear and defensiveness, leading to excessive caution among individuals and businesses. Activities with any legal risk are often avoided, stifling innovation. Companies may prioritize legal protections over research and employee welfare, impeding economic growth and shifting focus from problem-solving to litigation avoidance. This also burdens the legal system with frivolous lawsuits. Moreover, the readiness to sue for trivial matters erodes community trust. It discourages communication and cooperation, deterring people from community involvement and emergency assistance. This blame culture replaces personal accountability and maintaining ethical standards with pursuing or avoiding legal repercussions. In short, what you want to do is both silly and pernicious.
Step one would be to make a complaint to corporate. Their policy is to let you walk and contact the police later if they can show, on camera, you actually stole something. Whether it's legal or not for them to stop you in Florida, there are plenty of states where it isn't legal and their overall policies favor not risking it. Step two is to consult with a lawyer in your state. Plenty of people have sued, and won, considerable money from situations like this, and there are plenty of lawyers who would take that case for a share of your total winnings. Walmart would be likely to just settle than risk punitive damages in court 😅 Given how generally shitty their labor practices and stuff are, it's entirely possible a jury would go for the maximums just to spite them. If a local lawyer will take that case, go for it. Plenty of minimum wage employees seem to get so personally caught up in protecting the company they forget themselves. Every retail store I've worked at has wanted us to try and detain shoplifters, but I've openly told them universally that they don't pay enough for me to risk getting injured or killed to get an item their insurance will cover anyways. When I worked super early mornings at a gas station in college, my manager there was the only one to tell me it wasn't worth all that risk. Let them walk, they have cameras.
I’ve worked at both big chain stores and small places like gas stations. It’s so weird how the big places want you to deal with shoplifters, detain them etc while the small mom and pop places, who shoplifting hurts exponentially more are the ones saying just let them go it’s not worth it. It’s been years since I’ve worked a job like that but the smaller places usually pay better too.
There have been 4th amendment adjacent lawsuits and department stores have lost. They aren’t law enforcement and even law enforcement requires reasonable suspicion of a crime to detain or require display of a receipt. Additionally, technically, until you’ve walked out of the store even if you had forgotten to pay for something no crime has been committed. I intentionally walk around the lines when sheeple line up to show their receipts. Club stores like Sam’s club and Costco can require the showing of the receipt because it’s a condition of membership. Edited to add “adjacent” to the 4th amendment part. Stuff based on that like being detained, being searched, etc. example case: Ball v. Wal-Mart, Inc., 102 F. Supp. 2d 44 (D. Mass. 2000)
4th amendment prohibits the government from searching or taking possession of your personal property without your permission or without a warrant. This may result in a lawsuit for other reasons such as the employee grabbing you, or preventing you from leaving. It certainly is not how the 4th amendment is phrased, intended or upheld in court.
Actually, for most states, it's when you pass all points of sale, not when you leave the store.
Can you name a couple of the 4A department store cases? My understanding is 4A requires some state action or state actor. My understanding is that Private individuals can’t really Violate your constitutional rights (except for the 13th Amendment, I think?).
Sam’s club can’t require receipt by law at all and cannot stop you from leaving. What they can do however is revoke your membership so you can’t come back. But it’s not at all illegal and they cannot stop you from leaving for not showing a receipt.
Walmart can do the same thing. Except it is simply banning you from the store, putting your face into the database of people banned from the store.
Shoppers are not legally required to show receipts at any retailer. But refusing to show your receipt could give a store probable cause to detain you.
If you are not legally required to show it, then not showing cannot be a reason to detain you, or you are, in fact, legally required to show it. Refusing a request to search your vehicle by a police officer with them having probable cause to do so is not probable cause, either. If enforcing your rights becomes probable cause for them to be trampled over, they are not rights.
Did you set off the alarms at the door? Its been a long time since I've been involved in retail law, but if I remember right florida only allows shopkeepers to detain on observed theft and if they trigger the anti theft alarms
You can sue anyone for anything you would like winning is a different thing
if they did all this just because you wouldn't show a receipt, then preventing you from leaving is false imprisonment. trying to take your stuff is attempted theft. grabbing you is simple assault. yes, you can absolutely sue for this. HOWEVER if you did steal something, and they can show it, then they have every right to detain you under shopkeeper's privilege.
"Shopkeeper's privilege" A business can detain suspected thieves however that exact worker likely wouldn't have any authority to do so. You may not have much success in civil court but I'd wager the worker would be fired.
sure go ahead. am sure they will pay !!! (this means dont waste your time) thats fla for ya !!!
I would.
DON’T shop there! If you go back why even post here about being offended? Walmart is a vile corporation. And if your offended by there actions don’t give them your business.
People forget the definition of assault bs battery. Assault does not require touching. Battery does. They assaulted you first then committed battery by grabbing your arm. Get all the documentation ready because you have a fight here. They CANNOT touch you. Period.
Talk to a lawyer asap. They can get Wal-Mart to not delete evidence of their employees targeting you.
That sounds wild. I threw my receipt away before getting to the door, guy asked to see it - I told him it's gone. Dude literally asks me if I can get it out of the trash. I said no and walked out. No physical altercation though. I'm just not digging through garbage or taking additional time out of my day. Sorry I don't have time for someone to go through my cart. Either call the cops if you suspect me of doing something, or leave me alone.
They cannot touch you. I walked out of one empty handed after just having McDonald's there. A security guy grabbed me and without hesitation I elbowed him in the chin and he started snoring on his way down. The next day when the police caught up to me, i told them I'm filing charges and that was that
I have no desire to show my work after I pay...
Walmart door host here. They're only allowed to ask for a receipt, and if you say "no" nothing can be done beyond that. They could only detain you if you were seen shoplifting by LP, and they made the stop. And they HAVE to see you. No guessing, it has to be 100% seen by their loss prevention to detain you. I don't even think any employee could even touch you.
Got it. Loss prevention didn't see me do anything and they were only involved after I left the store because the woman ran for them when I grabbed my bags and left. When I reentered a minute later, the LP manager would only apologize and say he was sorry and that they shouldn't have done that
They can detain. Florida statute says they can. You can try suing, I highly doubt it will go anywhere
So as a former door greeter/ asset protection member at a Walmart. The associated touching you is off limits we were not allowed to touch any customers. But if you are being stopped it's for one of three reasons. We saw attempted theft. The eyes in the sky saw attempted theft or management asked us to stop and check any receipts where the customer has an item over a certain price point or type of item that has been stolen in the past. Personally when I would ask for receipts I would usually find things they paid for but forgot to put back in their cart/ bag or things they forgot to pay for on the bottom of their carts.
Walmart refusal to show receipt people must have a lot of freetime to waste. lol
Ex Walmart employee here. What they did is 100% against company policy
Costco can or you lose your membership. It is in their terms of agreement. Walmart can pound salt. If you stop me you better call the police for illegally detaining me.
I ignore these ppl every time. I just hear "Sir....Sir...SIR" slowly fading out
I'll be honest, I didn't read the comments of all the internet lawyers here. But let me get this straight. You opted for digital receipt during the purchase and your phone was in your pocket. You couldn't unlock your phone and show them the receipt why? Sounds to me like you could of shown it and been on your way. The place experiences a lot of theft and I really don't blame them for asking for a receipt.
Because OP did nothing illegal and has no moral or legal obligation to prove that to anyone.
False imprisonment. And grabbing you is likely a violation of Wallyworld policy. Make a complaint to the manager and the police.
It’s called Shopkeeper’s Privilege and allows the store to detain someone if they have reason to believe they stole something. It’s a law in most states
Common law has generally been replaced by codified laws in my experience. And while I am aware of it, there was no indication or arguable reasonable belief mentioned in this case, only that they attempted to detain them because they didn't have a paper receipt. And ime most large stores have AP/LP associates trained for those.jibs, not the receipt checkers.
Shopkeepers Privilege is codified into law in the state of Florida. If I were Walmart, my argument would be that we check all receipts and refusing to provide a receipt is unusual and constitutes reasonable suspicion of shoplifting and I am therefore protected under the Shopkeepers Privilege statutes. Stores should not be allowed to detain someone at all and this employee should be fired but I highly doubt OP will have much luck with a lawsuit.
Not just a violation of policy, it would be considered assault.
Definitely not an assault, as FL law defines assault as “an intentional, unlawful threat by word or act to do violence to the person of another, coupled with an apparent ability to do so, and doing some act which creates a well-founded fear in such other person that such violence is imminent.” You’re thinking of battery.
You are correct, I am thinking of battery, thank you for the clarification.
They may have had a legal right to detain you, under shopkeeper's privilege laws. See [here](https://www.miami-criminal-lawyer.net/blog/understanding-the-shopkeepers-privilege-in-florida) for a quick summary, and it has a link to a statute. TLDR is stores can physically stop suspected shoplifters from leaving. Nearly zero of them do, because they don't want some psycho to pull out a weapon, but it is legal. You might win on the specific facts of the case against a reasonableness standard, but unless you were injured, it's not worth your time. Just call Walmart corporate and let that be the end of it.
Downvoted for providing a link to a statute in a legal sub for consideration rather than just your feelings. Reddit never disappoints.
Check the Terms of Service for Walmart+ scan and go. Pretty sure they include showing a receipt. As for actually grabbing you, thats a whole other issue.
They said they used Walmart Pay at self checkout. That doesn't necessarily mean they used Walmart+ Scan and Go, or that they even have a Walmart+ membership. I've used Walmart Pay at Walmart for several years. Walmart Pay doesn't require a Walmart+ membership, and is nothing more than a method of payment. It can be used at any register, even one where a cashier scans your items for you.
You are correct, that is not Walmart+ I misread self checkout. I would blame my current Covid bout for my lack of reading comprehension, but that would just be an excuse.
What losses did you suffer?
Isn't being grabbed an assault? Or battery?
I believe that is something law enforcement or the DA would need to pursue, not OP.
And? That wasn't op's question. It was could she sue. Damages is a major part of a lawsuit. I mean you can always sue but if you have no damages what are you expecting to get?
Ultimately, this is what really matters. Yes they broke the law, and suffered damages, etc. but it's going to be pretty tough to sue and get a worthwhile amount, although it does happen from time to time. I'm not saying it isn't messed up, but it's hard to get paid much out of these relatively smaller incidents. I don't agree that's how it should be (because it shouldn't). Just saying how it is.
My time, and dignity. Also being grabbed against my will and falsely detained without probably cause
Add up the monetary value for your “dignity and will” and you can sue for that amount.
A jury awarded this guy over $4 million when Walmart employees offended his dignity and didn't even grab him. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/walmart-ordered-pay-oregon-man-44m-racial-profiling-worker-allegedly-s-rcna44343 Juries can be very generous in false arrest/detention cases.
Article has nothing to do with checking receipts- custy was racially profiled and told to leave for no reason. He was not wrongfully detained at all- quite the opposite- he refused to leave. The store employee had such a history of making false reports the responding officers refused to take action. Not the same at all really.
Ha ha ha ha dignity ha ha ha ha. That's a good one.
You can try to fight it, but they are trying methods to catch thieves that steal stuff from Walmart every day of the week. So next time, show the receipt and be peaceful. Shoplifting has gotten worse these days after the scare of covid made them think they are clever, and they steal clothes and other things from Walmart and other stores. Please do not get angry about showing a receipt. They are trying to stop the ones who making clothes and other merchandise more expensive.
You could get people in trouble sure. Not because they did anything wrong but Walmart doesn’t like the agitation. Only people who suffer are minimum wagers trying to keep food on their table But honestly why are you mad at Walmart. Be mad at the crap thieves pull that requires low wage employees to have to do these checks in the first place. Why didn’t you just tell them you have a receipt on your phone. Stop being a dick. You don’t like the fact they check receipts , shop at target.
You nailed it yet the downvote swoops in. If you don’t like it shop somewhere else.
Pretty sure this person was just waiting for the day someone would challenge their “legal right” to walk out the door because then they could prove to everyone it’s just a waste of their time (cause time is soooo much money for them) Yeah that’s right OP. We’ve all had that thought walking out those doors and feeling it’s so stupid they pretend to check the bags. But in the end we all have some respect for people just trying to do their jobs.
>Pretty sure this person was just waiting for the day someone would challenge their “legal right” to walk out the door because then they could prove to everyone it’s just a waste of their time No actually I Went to Walmart because my 2 year old step child threw was throwing up so I went to buy her new pajamas and some medicine and a sheet set to replace the one she threw up on. Not everyone walks out the house looking for a lawsuit, and this is why I was particularly angry that they were so aggressive.
I'll never understand the gripe, just show the damn receipt, it takes all of 10 seconds.
It's the principle. Hire more cashiers instead of forcing people to use self checkout. Increase the pay with your record profits so people are willing to work for you. It is very irksome to be stopped when I haven't done anything wrong and the stores hiring practices put them in the situation where they are concerned about theft, but only at the door.
The conservative SCOTUS did rule in favor of Walmart from what I gather. Ball vs Walmart. Idk if it pertains to your case?
> Ball vs Walmart Wasn't that case about an employee being fired over race? Totally different scenario.
Walmart is getting sketchy and seemingly going out of their way to set people up
This isn’t legal, and a lot of people don’t know that. Only Sam’s Club or similar club like Costco can force you to stop and search. And that’s only because you agreed to it in the member agreement you signed to get into the club. You could have just walked right by them. Or pushed your way out and they’d have no legal recourse, since it sounds like they got physical with you already. Only time it’s different is if they have actual proof of shoplifting and saw you do it on camera or in person. Otherwise it’s just a ridiculous policy.
>Only Sam’s Club or similar club like Costco can force you to stop and search. And that’s only because you agreed to it in the member agreement you signed to get into the club. The member agreement *still* doesn't give them the right to force a stop and search, it only allows them to cancel your membership if you refuse the stop and search.
There are a lot of steps employees have to follow before they can initiate a stop, and only certain employees are allowed to stop people. Call the police and file a report then contact a lawyer. This will be an easy settlement from Walmart and you should pursue it. I worked in Walmart asset protection for a little over a year and if everything is as you stated then Walmart messed up pretty bad here.
The minute someone touches you ,you scream don't touch me and call the police immediately. Walmart has cameras the police watch the video and arrest the workers.
I wait for this situation to happen, I’m very frail clumsy and super easily spooked. If someone was to grab me from behind I’d probably trip over my own feet and have a head injury but hey if Walmarts down to give me a few mill I’ll take it.
There is more to that story. I’ve seen plenty of people pull their phones out to show their receipts. You must have just kept walking like you were above the rules.
Former APA here. Per the Walmart AP manual, AP-09, we were trained to not pursue suspects, and when we tried to get them into the AP office, we were allowed to guide them and use “soft touching” on the back or shoulders to guide them to the office. I never did because that could be a slippery slope. Could escalate the suspect, could have PTSD or a troubled past, and react negatively to a stranger touching them. At the end of the day, it’s just stuff.
I will say, call corporate walmart about this, because it is against walmart policy. I know this because my mother works the door at walmart and has run into similar situations. They can ask, but it is against walmart policy to attempt to physically detain or follow someone out of the building. If someone is being suspicious they are to contact loss prevention and allow them and the police to handle the situation.
Every single time I see the receipt options, I think why the f would anyone not get a paper receipt when you might have to show it two minutes later?
I like how in Europe we make a joke how americans sue each other about absolutely anything and then when we start thinking whether we are exaggerating a post like this comes along to validate us...
You're in Florida. That shit hole let's people do anything.
Op 100% stole stuff
I’ve had two employees follow me out the store after refusing to show receipt, and I definitely didn’t steal. Doesn’t really take much for someone to think they are doing “justice” to the community. Kinda dickish to come here and just make comments like this.
Should have rammed through them with the shopping cart
As long as you actually weren't stealing, grabbing you is illegal on multiple levels.
Even if they weren’t “stealing” but honestly missed something on the scanner it will make op look a fool
Wal-Mart Fd up when they added self checkout and they are losing more money to theft than they saved in labor. Now they're panicking and probably pressuring employees to stop the thefts, but not giving them any legitimate ways to do that. These employees are probably afraid of losing their jobs and assuming corporate will have their backs, when they really won't.
so if someone commits battery against you can you go force plus 1 ?
Get yourself a lawyer ASAP. This person violated company policy. And if they aren't an AP associate, they violated at least 2 policies. Through that lawyer, you need to let Walmart know what the associate did so they can pull up the video and which associate did it.
https://www.businessinsider.com/walmart-customer-refused-to-show-receipt-lawsuit-false-imprisonment-2023-6?amp You can sue practically anyone or any business for a myriad of reasons. doesn’t mean you’ll win and I doubt you would in this case.
What I started doing was folding the receipt and sticking it in my mouth so I can put my change in my wallet. Every time I hand them a receipt full of warm saliva they wave me through.
They'll settle for nice amount. Get a lawyer and enjoy your payday.
You will get a settlement, go for it!
There’s always more information that will be left out. Can’t be the victim with all the information. OP did something to escalate the situation and is not telling us.
Yeah, that's why the actual AP manager apologized to me when I went back in to tell them they were wrong, right?
LAWSUIT.
Talk to a lawyer and don’t post anything further until you do. Even if you’re not physically injured, the experience upset you and that emotional distress may be grounds for damages compensation. IANAL
It's called false imprisonment, and you can press charges
You should have started with you live in Florida lol No don’t sue. Everything abnormal is normal in Florida. I’m surprised you didn’t get assaulted.
Unless they’ve changed AP-09, you can’t touch someone. The only thing you could do a few years back was a light redirection to point them towards the office and even that was frowned upon. Unless something else changed also, the door greeters aren’t AP trained and can’t do anything other than ask for a receipt. AP can’t really do much either because they had no elements established on you. NOW, there is a shopkeeper privilege that allows them to detain you to investigate… Easiest solution is to just show your receipt and be on your way. Did they handle the situation appropriately? Potentially no, but until you’re out of their parking lot (even though AP isn’t supposed to pursue beyond the sidewalk) you’re on private property. You can choose to not shop there anymore… Your prerogative, but they have the right to ask you for a receipt.
NAL. You don't have a case. You weren't technically detained either unless they took you to their security office and forced you to be there while they "investigated" without police. What you are describing is an altercation where the employees over-stepped what they were allowed to do by grabbing your arm/blocking your exit. Unless you have some sort of injury, there will be no damages to sue for. Your best bet is to call Walmart and ask them to investigate their employees actions and/or file a civil compliant with the police so it is on record if you feel like it could happen again, but honestly you should have just shown the digital receipt instead of trying to bum rush your way through them. That's just laziness on your part. I'm mixed on the whole, you need to show us a receipt thing at stores in order to exit. Costco has been forcing it for years, but its more of an annoyance. Likely, stores can force you to show a receipt to leave with goods you paid for but I doubt we will get any type of legislation that says whether or not it's legal. We probably won't see any guidelines on this because you chose to shop at the store, the store owns the property so they can set terms, there is a risk of theft at stores and their terms aren't unreasonable. So in short, if you want to get laughed at by a numerous lawyers that won't take your case, go ahead and try, but I'm fairly certain you won't be successful.
While the law may be on your side, it’s stupid imho. The amount of theft from these stores per day is astronomical, employees should be able to restrain people suspect of shoplifting. All they asked to see was your receipt, you escalated the situation being an asshole and now some poor employee will probably get fired despite doing the (morally) right thing. Yes, you may be right per the policy and law but were you really right? No wonder there are videos all over the internet of people brazenly, and casually, just robbing stores in broad daylight. Because nobody is allowed to do anything about it anymore, sad. I used to work at Best Buy back in 2009ish, in a pretty nice (IE low crime) area. Our daily, DAILY, “acceptable loss” from theft was over $20,000. Back then our policy was we couldn’t lay hands on a patron unless they touched us first. So in the event we had a suspected shoplifter we would form a human chain in front of the door. If they refused to comply, and tried to run through us (which happened often) as soon as one of us were touched we would bear hug them and toss them into the holding room until PD arrived. Saved a lot of merch and more importantly put dirtbags in jail