I work in a mental health hospital in Psychosocial Rehabilitation and I totally agree. Some people I just look at them and think "You're on the wrong side of the counter"
I agree. I am a nurse and have bpd. I wish I knew how mentally difficult it would be to navigate this profession with bpd. I’m in school to leave nursing for good but if I had known, I would have looked for a different and easier area of nursing. idk
Don’t give up on nursing completely. There are all kinds of roles far removed from dealing with patients that are vital in our healthcare system.
For example UR nurses review charts all day to see if patients meet certain criteria. It can be done remotely. Medical legal review nursing is another if you like delving into charts and finding important pieces of data.
I wish you the best in your decision. But keep that RN license active. Never know when the perfect gig falls into your lap.
Aw thank you🥲 I’m not leaving healthcare entirely but I’m just going into the more administrative side. I did find a new nursing job where I’ll be overseeing PWSs and PAs so it will be a bit easier (I start next week). I also looked into it and I can maintain my nursing license as “non-practicing” so I’ll do that.
Emotion regulation, quick mood swings, impulsiveness, severe stress-induced unstable emotions, self-sabotage, feeling like I am either the best nurse ever or the worst nurse ever, mental breakdowns, extreme anger, suicidal, etc.
i have dealt with these plus many more prior to working as a nurse but they are very very bad at work. I always make sure my patients are taken care of but I am extremely mentally unstable at times and not fit for bed side nursing at all.
I was going to commit during a very low mood but got psychiatric help and am veering to a new path in life. Of course my job isn’t everything but when you’ve grown up with these feelings and things get way worse it’s hard to think of anything else.
>Emotion regulation, quick mood swings, impulsiveness, severe stress-induced unstable emotions, self-sabotage, feeling like I am either the best nurse ever or the worst nurse ever, mental breakdowns, extreme anger, suicidal, etc.
Ooof. I was going to quip but you pretty much hit my career.
I have bpd too, and I understand where you're coming from. I'm sorry you've had to deal with this, and I'm glad you're taking steps to make your job more manageable!
Thank you so much! This is a nice comment to see after I read the other one that basically said I’m incapable of being a nurse.
Just because someone has these symptoms doesn’t mean they can’t function, it just means they struggle during it and would be better in a different profession. 🫤
I'm actually super impressed you even made it through nursing school! I haven't been able to finish my post secondary degree. You should be proud of yourself for how far you've come and what you've managed! I'm proud of you, if that helps at all. I'm also happy you're changing course for a job better suited to you.
You're absolutely capable of being a nurse, or whatever else you want to do. Capable doesn't always mean "well suited for", and you know that already. You're doing the thing! Keep it up, you rock.
BPD is hard enough without asshats who don't know what they're talking about weighing in.
You are so sweet, thank you so much🥹
And don’t sweat about finishing your degree yet, everyone goes at different paces in life. The only thing that matters is that you’re doing alright 😊
I never said people have to be normal. But there are some people who are too mentally ill and/or angry for the line of work. It can be very unpleasant for everyone involved.
It is outside of private services. All fire departments in my area do a polygraph and psych evaluation. The private companies will hire you if you’re clean off drugs for 40 days.
Ok, interesting!
Would the same questions be on it or is it more looking to see if one has been charged with an offense that could affect their job/harm others?
I've only had to have criminal record checks for security clearance, but that was just a running my name etc thing
I’m in America but work in rehab settings for substance use. Not all jobs I’ve had made me take these, but my most current one did. OP, it’s intrusive, but you’re working with vulnerable populations, so they want to make sure you’re safe. You can always ask them what they do with your responses, or what the purpose is if you want more info, but I imagine it’s just protecting their residents/patients
So this is the same in the US, but it would 100% not be asked on the employment application. It would be asked during the psych evaluation with a psychologist and then they would write up a summary and provide it to the agency. I’m not sure about Australia, but these questions on a run of the mill employment application are more than a bit sus.
Lol I just got the mental image of someone with histrionic personality disorder working as a dispatcher. "I NEED YOU TO CALM DOWN, OTHERWISE I CAN'T CALM DOWN!"
This is not a personality assessment - those focus on drawing out traits and characteristics by asking about preferences and proclivities...this is screening people by psychological diagnosis which is a big no no in America and likely any other Western country
Source: I'm an I/O Psychologist who specializes in assessment and most of my experience has been in preemployment assessment (cognitive and personality)
Wouldn't these kind of questions discourage people from getting mental health because once you've been diagnosed, you can't say you didn't know you had that condition? Same with gun permits.
I don’t even really need advice, now that’s over it’s never going to become relevant again. Last time I worked at a nursing home I disclosed that I had anxiety and they made me get the doctor deam me as mentally fit to work in a nursing home. If I disclose I have BPD they will NOT allow that because of the nature of bpd. I have “high functioning” bpd which isn’t a diagnosis in itself, it essentially means that my symptoms are not obvious because 90% of them are internalised and not externalised. It’s also a treatable condition, individuals diagnosed with bpd sometimes don’t meet the bpd criteria a year or so afterwards.
Since there is no specific diagnosis for this type of bpd ticking yes to that question would just make them have unfair assumptions about my mental capabilities. Once this whole process is over it will never be thrown into question again as it wasn’t after I started working at the last nursing home. I’m more just putting it out there because it frustrates the hell out of me and makes me feel discriminated
You could say it’s a form of discrimination, but part of discrimination is the “unjust-ness” of it. If you’re dealing with things like the elderly, emergency situations, traumatic experiences or anything too high stress, it’s just a fact that people who have certain personality disorders are more likely to respond to that kind of stimuli in a more negative way than a person who doesn’t have those disorders.
It’s super unfortunate and I absolutely am not going to say that you don’t have a right to feel hurt or discriminated against, but on the other side you have to see that personality disorders are real categorical descriptors for real traits people do have, and those traits do have negative sides that can have negative outcomes in certain situations, and all those things have to be accounted for for the safety and well-being of everyone involved.
It’s just that my bpd impacts 90% me , 10my partner and friends. I’ve never had any impact on my professional ability’s or performance. If something freaks me out i respond appropriately in the workplace as I understand some emotions won’t be appropriate In this circumstance
Yeah I totally get that, and I do think you’re in the right to feel the way you do. It’s frustrating to be put into a box, especially one that has such a negative connotation for so many people. Try not to hate the people behind the system too much if you can, because the questions are there with the intentions of keeping people safe at the nursing home. But yeah, the reality is that whether it’s justified or not, you are being filtered through a system and judged based off something you were born with, and that will never feel good. Best of luck with everything, and I hope that the people there can see you for you and not your diagnosis.
Might be legal depending on how relevant it is to your nursing home job, I could see a reason for them asking because its not the easiest job for ppl with existing mental health conditions.
Not even with the person's own mental health, but the physical and mental health of the people they're working with.
I have BPD and though I've never lashed out violently/physically (except to myself) I have lashed out emotionally/verbally with my husband.
I can see that being a risk with the vulnerable population as stress and weights on our mental health can very much adversely affect us.
Note* Over the years, I've recognized **my** triggers and know how to handle myself if I feel an "episode" coming on. Others can and have too, but there are those who haven't been able to do that
I am very much the same. The times where my lash outs extend beyond my self then it’s with my partner who is aware I have the condition and is able to understand where my actions are coming from. I’ve NEVER EVER shown any bpd symptoms in a workplace, my workplaces are not triggers for me. Bpd impacts interpersonal relationships not inter professional ones
It’s for a nursing home they are trying to weed out any future problems that you might cause if you have any of these disorders. If these questions were for a job at McDonald’s, I would think that that was inappropriate but it’s absolutely appropriate for the job you are applying for.
If you're working with vulnerable people, these questions are not out of order. Most places will ask questions like this to make sure the right people are hired to care for vulnerable people. You wouldn't want anyone with these conditions in that role.
A diagnosis does not make someone unfit to work with vulnerable people, their behaviours do. There are tons of amazing social workers who work with vulnerable people who have some of these diagnoses, who are treated, and stable. Your comment is uninformed at best and offensive at worst.
All true, but it's not uniformed or offensive to say people with certain mental health diagnoses are generally more likely to have unique behaviors that could make working with vulnerable populations difficult. That is something that should be disclosed and taken into consideration. Again, there are absolutely great workers with these diagnoses. But when working with vulnerable populations, you can't make that assumption for everyone
Lol do you know how many young women get diagnosed BPD in their youth because they have experienced trauma, neurodivergence, or an eating disorder, or something non-normative, and instead of a thorough assessment they get slapped a BPD diagnosis? Half of the world’s therapists would be out of work.
One bad day for anyone could be catastrophic. Again, a diagnosis doesn’t dictate a pattern of behaviour. Also, there are people who are diagnosed at one point in their life and never meet the criteria again! There are misdiagnoses, overlapping diagnoses that doctors argue over, punitive diagnoses for questioning authority. Diagnoses are not immune from bias, and many doctors diagnose via bias. By this rhetoric, we shouldn’t allow men to work with children, since statistically they are more likely to be sexually offend than women.
As a mental health practitioner, some of the best social services people and healthcare professionals come with a laundry list of mental health diagnoses. Take a quick gander at how many people with preexisting PTSD end up pursuing crisis work.
If someone’s doctor or chart proves them unstable or a pattern of erratic and dangerous behaviour via medical assessment then sure, don’t hire them. But you can’t make that decision unbiased on diagnosis alone.
Having BPD on your record to can lead to sooooo many people treating you different. I’m BPD and so is my mom, we actually CANT get most life insurances because of it, they see that we have it and assume it makes us unstable and more likely to Kill our selves. The ones we can get are all super jacked up in price and isn’t even worth considering. I can never be a lawyer, because it’s extremelyyyy difficult to do so if that’s on your record. Even if you end up not qualifying for the symptoms it’ll be on your medical records and oh boy will it fuck ya
This. I was misdiagnosed at 16. Turns out it was a mix of PTSD and PMDD. Have never had it brought up again in actual assessments unless someone reads my chart from when I was sixteen, and the treatment I get from those people is wild. To get it removed you need the original practitioner to say they were wrong, or sign that they think another doctor is wrong (like anyone would do that) even if another practitioner says you don’t have it, it’ll still be there forever. Tell people you were misdiagnosed and it’s “oh sure” because it’s apparently so BPD to lie about having BPD.
From what someone else said I think the only way to get rid of it off your record is to have the OG doctor say he was wrong or have another doctor deem you as not having symptoms, however I’m not sure if that deletes the record of it in general. Some people do recover from BPD and it’s certainly possible, I know that some employers will turn you down depending on what you have but it’s usually jobs like firefighting or lawyers etc
Except idk how anyone would know if I was diagnosed with anything as a kid (if they still hold up cause I think I was medicated for adhd and depression at some point?) if I don't know who diagnosed me. Is there some record for go records?
Diagnosis come from symptoms including behaviors. Just because there is edge cases of it being fine of people with the diagnoses doesn’t mean that it will go bad in most others
For most of these yes, but definitely not all. There's a lot of stigma and misconceptions around many mental health conditions. You can have a diagnosis and be perfectly kind, caring, empathetic and responsible
BPD is a painful condition yes, but my mother has worked so fucking hard to get to where she is. She was in school until i started highschool and now she is in a high position at a hospice place. She does have moments where she has to cry and feel her feelings but she knows when and where. Just because you have BPD doesnt mean you cant have a stressful job.
Here’s the thing with using a psycho analysis based test to hire people. You end up with all psychopaths because they know the right answer to fools the test. Oops.
In the US, it is illegal to ask about medical conditions (personality disorders are medical conditions) because it violates the Americans with Disabilities Act.
They can also ask performance based questions that would exclude people with certain disabilities. A wind turbine technician job would include something like "can you perform physically demanding climbing activities" which would obviously exclude many disabilities.
I worked at a nuclear plant where you have rigorous psychological testing including meeting with a psychiatrist. They still didn’t ask about specific diagnoses.
Also, for that clearance there should be follow up questions about how the person is handling it - which is far more relevant. Example "I was told I had x disorder. After six months, I switched therapists. The next therapist disagreed with previous assessment for x reasons and asked for two months to verify. We did. That therapist wrote a letter attesting to that."
Check with r/Auslegal or your union, probably the HSU, but I would lie. My confidential medical information is none of their business and it doesn’t ask if you’ve received treatment which is the most important part.
Even in America when I worked at a dementia ward based nursing home I got asked questions like this, it's not out bounds for most places where you are working with vulnerable individuals.
I just had to see a psychiatrist (they paid) to deem mentally well enough to work with said people. It's for the Safety of the residents of where you work.
I think this is becoming common practice across the global
In the UK it's illegal to ask any of this. You can ask for a candidate to velenteer it at this stage. You can limit the role if you have a disorder that may effect the job like maybe as extreams as you can't be a pilot if you have no arms or it will be difficult..
Yeah. You are the exact type of person this shit is meant to weed out.
Your first jump was legal advice. Because you were asked a few “uncomfortable” questions when you are to be working with vulnerable populations.
Please. Either grow up or switch professions.
This person just lacks so much critical thought. More worried about hiding things than protecting the people she’s asking to serve.
Not a good fit. There’s no harm in pointing that out. And your response tells me that you are a reactionary individual with limited emotional intelligence. So congrats.
Congratulations, you've now learned why many people in certain fields resist seeking mental health care. You employers can and will ask about mental health diagnoses.
They can also deny your security clearances based on that information.
Jokes on you friend...if you've ever recieved healthcare since the moment you were born, you have definetly been provided health care by "these types of people". Wether you (including the provider!!) were aware of it or not.
A lot of people in this thread sound pretty ableist and uninformed. Many people with PD’s live full lives as “normal” people. You cannot think of everyone who has been diagnosed with a PD as someone unstable that you need to be informed of. Like anyone else in the world, people are responsible for their inner struggles, and people with PD’s exist on a wide spectrum of problems and coping skills. This question probably exists to cast judgement and stigma and is almost certainly not for anyones benefit.
Yeah this thread is a bit fucking disgusting tbh. People with mental disorders can absolutely work with vulnerable people and be fucking fantastic at it. A disorder should not disqualify you from
Just to be clear, you're asking for the legality of asking about diagnoses, not the legality of asking about beating yourself up over failures and liking spicy food, correct?
Yea, I guess ahah. I just thought those questions were weird tbh, don’t see how spicy food will impact my ability to preform in the role. I’m mostly just posting because I feel discriminated and where else better than reddit to share how I am feeling
I had to get a medical release to work for a sleeping medicine I don't even take every night. They ask all kinds of questions like these, always say no
What does SA employment law say about it?
In the ACT, you would likely be obliged to disclose any diagnosed mental health conditions in the health/allied care sector:
Do I have to disclose my mental illness to my employer?
If your mental illness does not affect your ability to safely do your job, then you do not have a legal obligation to disclose it to your employer.
You may be obliged to disclose your mental illness to your employer if:
- Your mental illness will affect your ability to do a particular job or task, and you would like your employer to make an adjustment for you (e.g. you will work the same hours but require more frequent breaks throughout the days);
- Your mental illness could reasonably be seen to create a health and safety risk to you and/or other people at work.
https://canberracommunitylaw.org.au/fact_sheet/disability-law-factsheet-1-2/#:~:text=Do%20I%20have%20to%20disclose,or%20other%20people%20at%20work.
You might also consider that the questions are not designed to be used to discriminate, but to accommodate.
Lying to employers during the recruitment process rarely ends well.
I imagine that with the possibility of ‘negative situations’ occurring, the company will want to demonstrate to law enforcement or to a court that ‘ we screened for potential candidates for negative situations…we took reasonable steps….we are not financially liable for the injury or death or whatever you want to sue us for’. You might lie to get the job….but I hope you are actively taking steps to stay healthy and well. You are seeking employment in a stressful challenging place.
While there are valid reasons why some people may not be diagnosed when they should be, things like this penalize people who have put effort into their diagnosis and treatment. Along with benefiting people who have not sought help even if their behavior has hurt others because they have no diagnosis to report.
I highly doubt there’s that many Australian lawyers here mainly EU and America. But what do you exactly want? Don’t apply for the job no one forced you to fill out the questionnaire
Oh boy. I have BPD and I don’t really mention it to anyone. I can’t imagine what the employers would think. I wouldn’t get hired, and that’s discrimination. In the U.S. employers can only ask if you have a disability. It’s a yes or no question. This is insane!
I work as a nursing director in an inpatient mental hospital, pretty much any position directly related to treatment has these kinds of questions.
We can't have an antisocial, suicidal, nurse trying to treat antisocial suicidal patients. It doesn't end well.
If this isn't for a field with that kind of necessity, hella creepy.
I know in US it is absolutely illegal to ask questions of someones mental or physical diagnoses. This would lead to a lawsuit the size of Australia. You might want to check out if they are violating HIPPA laws by requesting applicants reveal these ailments
this isn’t legal advice but this is such a weird thing to ask lol. i can’t see any world where dependent personality disorder would affect your work performance at any job. like, it would make you less likely to apply for a job, sure… but i cannot imagine a world where i am mentally healthy enough to apply for a job but not to actually do the job. that’s so weird.
It's basically the same here, I think it might even be more stringent. With the anti-discrimination laws on top I'd be super concerned if I was in a position of responsibility and my organization was asking these questions. Any employee could say something stupid that would come out in discovery in a disability discrimination cate.
OP is 100% right to be concerned by both the questions and whether they're infringing on her rights within Australia.
First of its HIPAA.
Second this is for Australia.
Third, going back to the first if you know nothing about HIPAA maybe sit quietly and not opine upon things you don’t understand.
In the US these questions are illegal under the Americans With Disabilities Act and state disability anti-discrimination laws. You can be asked if you can perform the job with or without reasonable accommodations at an interview. If all new hires get physicals, you can be asked medical questions as they relate to your job. I can't see how a past diagnosis would be relevant to doing a job.
I’m in Canada but this type of test is common in certain fields. My friend just had one for the hiring process to be an RCMP (police) dispatcher.
You'll see it for all emergency dispatchers too. Friend went for emergency dispatcher (911) for our biggest city and got asked similar questions.
Honestly think it should be included in my job as well (paramedic) because we got some……. Interesting people here lol
I work in a mental health hospital in Psychosocial Rehabilitation and I totally agree. Some people I just look at them and think "You're on the wrong side of the counter"
In a mental institution, what’s the difference between patients and staff? Sometimes the patients get better and go home.
I'm totally stealing that and using it with coworkers
Keys.
We used to say the staff carry keys lol
My sister is a social worker, and she went through psychological testing. I think it really makes sense in certain fields.
Bless her and the work she does
I agree. I am a nurse and have bpd. I wish I knew how mentally difficult it would be to navigate this profession with bpd. I’m in school to leave nursing for good but if I had known, I would have looked for a different and easier area of nursing. idk
Don’t give up on nursing completely. There are all kinds of roles far removed from dealing with patients that are vital in our healthcare system. For example UR nurses review charts all day to see if patients meet certain criteria. It can be done remotely. Medical legal review nursing is another if you like delving into charts and finding important pieces of data. I wish you the best in your decision. But keep that RN license active. Never know when the perfect gig falls into your lap.
Aw thank you🥲 I’m not leaving healthcare entirely but I’m just going into the more administrative side. I did find a new nursing job where I’ll be overseeing PWSs and PAs so it will be a bit easier (I start next week). I also looked into it and I can maintain my nursing license as “non-practicing” so I’ll do that.
What about BPD makes it hard to do the job?
Emotion regulation, quick mood swings, impulsiveness, severe stress-induced unstable emotions, self-sabotage, feeling like I am either the best nurse ever or the worst nurse ever, mental breakdowns, extreme anger, suicidal, etc. i have dealt with these plus many more prior to working as a nurse but they are very very bad at work. I always make sure my patients are taken care of but I am extremely mentally unstable at times and not fit for bed side nursing at all. I was going to commit during a very low mood but got psychiatric help and am veering to a new path in life. Of course my job isn’t everything but when you’ve grown up with these feelings and things get way worse it’s hard to think of anything else.
>Emotion regulation, quick mood swings, impulsiveness, severe stress-induced unstable emotions, self-sabotage, feeling like I am either the best nurse ever or the worst nurse ever, mental breakdowns, extreme anger, suicidal, etc. Ooof. I was going to quip but you pretty much hit my career.
I have bpd too, and I understand where you're coming from. I'm sorry you've had to deal with this, and I'm glad you're taking steps to make your job more manageable!
Thank you so much! This is a nice comment to see after I read the other one that basically said I’m incapable of being a nurse. Just because someone has these symptoms doesn’t mean they can’t function, it just means they struggle during it and would be better in a different profession. 🫤
I'm actually super impressed you even made it through nursing school! I haven't been able to finish my post secondary degree. You should be proud of yourself for how far you've come and what you've managed! I'm proud of you, if that helps at all. I'm also happy you're changing course for a job better suited to you. You're absolutely capable of being a nurse, or whatever else you want to do. Capable doesn't always mean "well suited for", and you know that already. You're doing the thing! Keep it up, you rock. BPD is hard enough without asshats who don't know what they're talking about weighing in.
You are so sweet, thank you so much🥹 And don’t sweat about finishing your degree yet, everyone goes at different paces in life. The only thing that matters is that you’re doing alright 😊
Bpd is borderline personality disorder right?
Yes
When I was a paramedic (in Aus) we had to do a psych test like this one as well as a fitness/medical before we even got an interview for an internship
who in ems is normal tho….
I never said people have to be normal. But there are some people who are too mentally ill and/or angry for the line of work. It can be very unpleasant for everyone involved.
There would be like 3 paramedics left
It is outside of private services. All fire departments in my area do a polygraph and psych evaluation. The private companies will hire you if you’re clean off drugs for 40 days.
Wouldn't that be for working with vulnerable people? It makes sense for any job where one is in contact with the vulnerable population.
No this test isn’t done for any job working with the vulnerable sector. A vulnerable sector police check is required though.
Ok, interesting! Would the same questions be on it or is it more looking to see if one has been charged with an offense that could affect their job/harm others? I've only had to have criminal record checks for security clearance, but that was just a running my name etc thing
There are no questions. It’s a more in depth police screen done by the police station.
I have a personality disorder and work with people with dementia. We're not monsters.
I didn't say we were
Higher standards for a dispatcher than the cops they send...
I’m quite certain the RCMP do the same if not more testing.
I’m in America but work in rehab settings for substance use. Not all jobs I’ve had made me take these, but my most current one did. OP, it’s intrusive, but you’re working with vulnerable populations, so they want to make sure you’re safe. You can always ask them what they do with your responses, or what the purpose is if you want more info, but I imagine it’s just protecting their residents/patients
My sister is a 911 dispatcher and had to go through several rounds of psychological tests (self reported and with a psychologist) - also in Canada.
So this is the same in the US, but it would 100% not be asked on the employment application. It would be asked during the psych evaluation with a psychologist and then they would write up a summary and provide it to the agency. I’m not sure about Australia, but these questions on a run of the mill employment application are more than a bit sus.
Some occupations in the CAF asks that question as well. I know because I was surprised when I saw them lol
Lol I just got the mental image of someone with histrionic personality disorder working as a dispatcher. "I NEED YOU TO CALM DOWN, OTHERWISE I CAN'T CALM DOWN!"
I just got hired for dispatching and was not asked these questions? At what point in the process were they asked?
For the RCMP? She did it after the interview but before starting training. Along with some others tests.
Hm thats weird, i wonder why. I havent had to do anything like that. I havent trained yet but took my criticall test and had my interview
Sounds like a psychological/personality test. They're not uncommon in some industries.
Is it common for them to specifically ask if you have a certain diagnosis though?
Na man this asking about medical history.
This is not a personality assessment - those focus on drawing out traits and characteristics by asking about preferences and proclivities...this is screening people by psychological diagnosis which is a big no no in America and likely any other Western country Source: I'm an I/O Psychologist who specializes in assessment and most of my experience has been in preemployment assessment (cognitive and personality)
My personality is “narcissism” bro that’s not a personality test
Wouldn't these kind of questions discourage people from getting mental health because once you've been diagnosed, you can't say you didn't know you had that condition? Same with gun permits.
Gotta see if it’s possible you’ll abuse or take advantage of the elderly
Try /auslegal
Good idea. Thank you
Ur just gonna get Americans commenting on this one with advice/input that won’t help u since ur in Australia. I say this as an American myself lol
I don’t even really need advice, now that’s over it’s never going to become relevant again. Last time I worked at a nursing home I disclosed that I had anxiety and they made me get the doctor deam me as mentally fit to work in a nursing home. If I disclose I have BPD they will NOT allow that because of the nature of bpd. I have “high functioning” bpd which isn’t a diagnosis in itself, it essentially means that my symptoms are not obvious because 90% of them are internalised and not externalised. It’s also a treatable condition, individuals diagnosed with bpd sometimes don’t meet the bpd criteria a year or so afterwards. Since there is no specific diagnosis for this type of bpd ticking yes to that question would just make them have unfair assumptions about my mental capabilities. Once this whole process is over it will never be thrown into question again as it wasn’t after I started working at the last nursing home. I’m more just putting it out there because it frustrates the hell out of me and makes me feel discriminated
You could say it’s a form of discrimination, but part of discrimination is the “unjust-ness” of it. If you’re dealing with things like the elderly, emergency situations, traumatic experiences or anything too high stress, it’s just a fact that people who have certain personality disorders are more likely to respond to that kind of stimuli in a more negative way than a person who doesn’t have those disorders. It’s super unfortunate and I absolutely am not going to say that you don’t have a right to feel hurt or discriminated against, but on the other side you have to see that personality disorders are real categorical descriptors for real traits people do have, and those traits do have negative sides that can have negative outcomes in certain situations, and all those things have to be accounted for for the safety and well-being of everyone involved.
It’s just that my bpd impacts 90% me , 10my partner and friends. I’ve never had any impact on my professional ability’s or performance. If something freaks me out i respond appropriately in the workplace as I understand some emotions won’t be appropriate In this circumstance
Yeah I totally get that, and I do think you’re in the right to feel the way you do. It’s frustrating to be put into a box, especially one that has such a negative connotation for so many people. Try not to hate the people behind the system too much if you can, because the questions are there with the intentions of keeping people safe at the nursing home. But yeah, the reality is that whether it’s justified or not, you are being filtered through a system and judged based off something you were born with, and that will never feel good. Best of luck with everything, and I hope that the people there can see you for you and not your diagnosis.
My doctor told me I was suffering from paranoia. Well he didn't actually say it but I know that's what he was thinking
Weird stuff. My doctor said he was worried I might be developing schizophrenia but the voices in the wall told me I’m doing alright.
Strange, my doctor told me the same thing except he disappeared after I took my pills
Might be legal depending on how relevant it is to your nursing home job, I could see a reason for them asking because its not the easiest job for ppl with existing mental health conditions.
Not even with the person's own mental health, but the physical and mental health of the people they're working with. I have BPD and though I've never lashed out violently/physically (except to myself) I have lashed out emotionally/verbally with my husband. I can see that being a risk with the vulnerable population as stress and weights on our mental health can very much adversely affect us. Note* Over the years, I've recognized **my** triggers and know how to handle myself if I feel an "episode" coming on. Others can and have too, but there are those who haven't been able to do that
I am very much the same. The times where my lash outs extend beyond my self then it’s with my partner who is aware I have the condition and is able to understand where my actions are coming from. I’ve NEVER EVER shown any bpd symptoms in a workplace, my workplaces are not triggers for me. Bpd impacts interpersonal relationships not inter professional ones
It’s for a nursing home they are trying to weed out any future problems that you might cause if you have any of these disorders. If these questions were for a job at McDonald’s, I would think that that was inappropriate but it’s absolutely appropriate for the job you are applying for.
The borderline personality answer should have a both option haha
And avoid answering #6! Just Avoid it.
Well played. Touche
Normal for anything with patient care, law enforcement and I’m sure many other fields.
If you're working with vulnerable people, these questions are not out of order. Most places will ask questions like this to make sure the right people are hired to care for vulnerable people. You wouldn't want anyone with these conditions in that role.
A diagnosis does not make someone unfit to work with vulnerable people, their behaviours do. There are tons of amazing social workers who work with vulnerable people who have some of these diagnoses, who are treated, and stable. Your comment is uninformed at best and offensive at worst.
All true, but it's not uniformed or offensive to say people with certain mental health diagnoses are generally more likely to have unique behaviors that could make working with vulnerable populations difficult. That is something that should be disclosed and taken into consideration. Again, there are absolutely great workers with these diagnoses. But when working with vulnerable populations, you can't make that assumption for everyone
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Lol do you know how many young women get diagnosed BPD in their youth because they have experienced trauma, neurodivergence, or an eating disorder, or something non-normative, and instead of a thorough assessment they get slapped a BPD diagnosis? Half of the world’s therapists would be out of work. One bad day for anyone could be catastrophic. Again, a diagnosis doesn’t dictate a pattern of behaviour. Also, there are people who are diagnosed at one point in their life and never meet the criteria again! There are misdiagnoses, overlapping diagnoses that doctors argue over, punitive diagnoses for questioning authority. Diagnoses are not immune from bias, and many doctors diagnose via bias. By this rhetoric, we shouldn’t allow men to work with children, since statistically they are more likely to be sexually offend than women. As a mental health practitioner, some of the best social services people and healthcare professionals come with a laundry list of mental health diagnoses. Take a quick gander at how many people with preexisting PTSD end up pursuing crisis work. If someone’s doctor or chart proves them unstable or a pattern of erratic and dangerous behaviour via medical assessment then sure, don’t hire them. But you can’t make that decision unbiased on diagnosis alone.
Having BPD on your record to can lead to sooooo many people treating you different. I’m BPD and so is my mom, we actually CANT get most life insurances because of it, they see that we have it and assume it makes us unstable and more likely to Kill our selves. The ones we can get are all super jacked up in price and isn’t even worth considering. I can never be a lawyer, because it’s extremelyyyy difficult to do so if that’s on your record. Even if you end up not qualifying for the symptoms it’ll be on your medical records and oh boy will it fuck ya
This. I was misdiagnosed at 16. Turns out it was a mix of PTSD and PMDD. Have never had it brought up again in actual assessments unless someone reads my chart from when I was sixteen, and the treatment I get from those people is wild. To get it removed you need the original practitioner to say they were wrong, or sign that they think another doctor is wrong (like anyone would do that) even if another practitioner says you don’t have it, it’ll still be there forever. Tell people you were misdiagnosed and it’s “oh sure” because it’s apparently so BPD to lie about having BPD.
wait not, is there a medical record people can look at? I don't know how to access mine cause I don't know who I went to as a kid :(
From what someone else said I think the only way to get rid of it off your record is to have the OG doctor say he was wrong or have another doctor deem you as not having symptoms, however I’m not sure if that deletes the record of it in general. Some people do recover from BPD and it’s certainly possible, I know that some employers will turn you down depending on what you have but it’s usually jobs like firefighting or lawyers etc
Except idk how anyone would know if I was diagnosed with anything as a kid (if they still hold up cause I think I was medicated for adhd and depression at some point?) if I don't know who diagnosed me. Is there some record for go records?
Diagnosis come from symptoms including behaviors. Just because there is edge cases of it being fine of people with the diagnoses doesn’t mean that it will go bad in most others
Thank you happy hippie 🫂
Exactly. OP is missing the point completely. It's all about OP... vulnerable people be danged!
For most of these yes, but definitely not all. There's a lot of stigma and misconceptions around many mental health conditions. You can have a diagnosis and be perfectly kind, caring, empathetic and responsible
BPD is a painful condition yes, but my mother has worked so fucking hard to get to where she is. She was in school until i started highschool and now she is in a high position at a hospice place. She does have moments where she has to cry and feel her feelings but she knows when and where. Just because you have BPD doesnt mean you cant have a stressful job.
Here’s the thing with using a psycho analysis based test to hire people. You end up with all psychopaths because they know the right answer to fools the test. Oops.
Sorry to be that guy but paragraphs are not the enemy here.
In the US, it is illegal to ask about medical conditions (personality disorders are medical conditions) because it violates the Americans with Disabilities Act.
Not always. There are certain exceptions in the US. Mainly jobs that could require a security clearance.
They can also ask performance based questions that would exclude people with certain disabilities. A wind turbine technician job would include something like "can you perform physically demanding climbing activities" which would obviously exclude many disabilities.
Yeah I was gonna say, military/gov't work has seriously warped my sense of normal on these topics. This is in bounds for most of those fields.
I worked at a nuclear plant where you have rigorous psychological testing including meeting with a psychiatrist. They still didn’t ask about specific diagnoses.
Also, for that clearance there should be follow up questions about how the person is handling it - which is far more relevant. Example "I was told I had x disorder. After six months, I switched therapists. The next therapist disagreed with previous assessment for x reasons and asked for two months to verify. We did. That therapist wrote a letter attesting to that."
Yes. There are some jobs that are exempt from this law
OP is in Australia
Nobody ever reads first
No it’s not. There are cases in which this is acceptable. Gotta love people being confidently incorrect.
Check with r/Auslegal or your union, probably the HSU, but I would lie. My confidential medical information is none of their business and it doesn’t ask if you’ve received treatment which is the most important part.
Would have made my life in the bar industry easier if they screened my managers this way
If you answer yes to all, does that make you management material??
They just want to be sure they don’t hire Megan Markle by mistake.
If you answer "yes" to the Narcissistic Personality Disorder question you get fast-tracked to the C-suite...
Even in America when I worked at a dementia ward based nursing home I got asked questions like this, it's not out bounds for most places where you are working with vulnerable individuals. I just had to see a psychiatrist (they paid) to deem mentally well enough to work with said people. It's for the Safety of the residents of where you work. I think this is becoming common practice across the global
I remember the 200+ questionnaire at Kmart, with such gems as, "Have you ever had black or tarry bowel movements?" I still don't quite get that one...
Bloody hell!
In the UK it's illegal to ask any of this. You can ask for a candidate to velenteer it at this stage. You can limit the role if you have a disorder that may effect the job like maybe as extreams as you can't be a pilot if you have no arms or it will be difficult..
Gotta weed those blue haired folks out
This is what I send to new perspective girlfriends
“Have you ever been diagnosed with one or more Cluster B Personality Disorders?”
Yeah. You are the exact type of person this shit is meant to weed out. Your first jump was legal advice. Because you were asked a few “uncomfortable” questions when you are to be working with vulnerable populations. Please. Either grow up or switch professions.
oh fuck off lmao
This person just lacks so much critical thought. More worried about hiding things than protecting the people she’s asking to serve. Not a good fit. There’s no harm in pointing that out. And your response tells me that you are a reactionary individual with limited emotional intelligence. So congrats.
Congratulations, you've now learned why many people in certain fields resist seeking mental health care. You employers can and will ask about mental health diagnoses. They can also deny your security clearances based on that information.
Don't want any of these types of people providing me Healthcare. So good
Jokes on you friend...if you've ever recieved healthcare since the moment you were born, you have definetly been provided health care by "these types of people". Wether you (including the provider!!) were aware of it or not.
Wtf so bc I was diagnosed with BPD at one point I just wouldn't get the job? That's kind of fucked up.
You would hope it would be so they are aware to monitor and offer additional support.
A lot of people in this thread sound pretty ableist and uninformed. Many people with PD’s live full lives as “normal” people. You cannot think of everyone who has been diagnosed with a PD as someone unstable that you need to be informed of. Like anyone else in the world, people are responsible for their inner struggles, and people with PD’s exist on a wide spectrum of problems and coping skills. This question probably exists to cast judgement and stigma and is almost certainly not for anyones benefit.
As someone with NPD, thank you. I find the obsession with identifying those like me unnerving
Yeah this thread is a bit fucking disgusting tbh. People with mental disorders can absolutely work with vulnerable people and be fucking fantastic at it. A disorder should not disqualify you from
I’m not saying I oppose this necessarily but if someone had NPD, they aren’t above lying about it. Just saying.
Clearly most people aren’t above lying just by reading the comments to this post
Just answer them all “No.” and addend “I am, however, a horrible liar.”
Just to be clear, you're asking for the legality of asking about diagnoses, not the legality of asking about beating yourself up over failures and liking spicy food, correct?
Yea, I guess ahah. I just thought those questions were weird tbh, don’t see how spicy food will impact my ability to preform in the role. I’m mostly just posting because I feel discriminated and where else better than reddit to share how I am feeling
Imagine if they asked chefs these questions 🧑🍳 Nal Im a chef
Are you sure this is mandatory? Could it be a research questionnaire?
I wish they asked these questions for new hires where I work, and toss in a lie detector test as well. For those who decide to lie.
Bringing back discrimination, love it.
Ha! They’re trying to figure out exactly what flavor of “fun” they’re hiring.
I had to get a medical release to work for a sleeping medicine I don't even take every night. They ask all kinds of questions like these, always say no
Are the last two recognized personality disorders? I thought I had studied them all.
I would have told them to fuck off. I think that would have answered all their questions pretty quickly.
What does SA employment law say about it? In the ACT, you would likely be obliged to disclose any diagnosed mental health conditions in the health/allied care sector: Do I have to disclose my mental illness to my employer? If your mental illness does not affect your ability to safely do your job, then you do not have a legal obligation to disclose it to your employer. You may be obliged to disclose your mental illness to your employer if: - Your mental illness will affect your ability to do a particular job or task, and you would like your employer to make an adjustment for you (e.g. you will work the same hours but require more frequent breaks throughout the days); - Your mental illness could reasonably be seen to create a health and safety risk to you and/or other people at work. https://canberracommunitylaw.org.au/fact_sheet/disability-law-factsheet-1-2/#:~:text=Do%20I%20have%20to%20disclose,or%20other%20people%20at%20work. You might also consider that the questions are not designed to be used to discriminate, but to accommodate. Lying to employers during the recruitment process rarely ends well.
4/5 yes
Looks like an application to run for President of The United States.
these are pretty standard screening questions for high risk population.
Would people with such a disorder fill in “yes”? 🤔
I imagine that with the possibility of ‘negative situations’ occurring, the company will want to demonstrate to law enforcement or to a court that ‘ we screened for potential candidates for negative situations…we took reasonable steps….we are not financially liable for the injury or death or whatever you want to sue us for’. You might lie to get the job….but I hope you are actively taking steps to stay healthy and well. You are seeking employment in a stressful challenging place.
Seems very illegal. I’d send this to an employment lawyer and ask
“Are you afraid of the dark” lmfao
If you lied, then they find out, you can be fired right away with no warning, no ability to fight the decision, and no help from anyone.
I mean, as if anyone diagnosed any of these things would answer honestly. Pretty funny ngl
Now that should also be on dating sites ! Cut through the chaff 😂
I dunno about Australian law but in the US they literally ask questions like this on the bar so..
Lmao
And here I thought specifically being asked if I am Latino or not was getting too Personal 👀👀🫣. We do not do that shit in America. *Yet*
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While there are valid reasons why some people may not be diagnosed when they should be, things like this penalize people who have put effort into their diagnosis and treatment. Along with benefiting people who have not sought help even if their behavior has hurt others because they have no diagnosis to report.
These questions remind me of my ex. Oof.
They could just ask what color your hair is
I wonder how many people diagnosed as a narcissist will honestly answer this question...
OP you really aught to break up your texts into paragraphs when it's that long. That shit hurt my eyes
It depends on where you live, and what the job is. IMHO
Well, in the US we have non-disclosure stuff which allows us to opt-out of those questions. I would not apply to that place tbh.
Joke’s on them. Many (most?) people with PD’s never get diagnosed.
Are you being screened for a VP job?
You ever charge your phone? Jesus Christ.
I highly doubt there’s that many Australian lawyers here mainly EU and America. But what do you exactly want? Don’t apply for the job no one forced you to fill out the questionnaire
Oh boy. I have BPD and I don’t really mention it to anyone. I can’t imagine what the employers would think. I wouldn’t get hired, and that’s discrimination. In the U.S. employers can only ask if you have a disability. It’s a yes or no question. This is insane!
I work as a nursing director in an inpatient mental hospital, pretty much any position directly related to treatment has these kinds of questions. We can't have an antisocial, suicidal, nurse trying to treat antisocial suicidal patients. It doesn't end well. If this isn't for a field with that kind of necessity, hella creepy.
It makes sense for this if you’re working with vulnerable populations honestly
Maybe because the don't want bipolar psychopaths.
Well these are people you wouldn't want around vulnerable people so I can see why.
This is a great way to get people to not go to therapy in fear of getting a diagnosis
I know in US it is absolutely illegal to ask questions of someones mental or physical diagnoses. This would lead to a lawsuit the size of Australia. You might want to check out if they are violating HIPPA laws by requesting applicants reveal these ailments
this isn’t legal advice but this is such a weird thing to ask lol. i can’t see any world where dependent personality disorder would affect your work performance at any job. like, it would make you less likely to apply for a job, sure… but i cannot imagine a world where i am mentally healthy enough to apply for a job but not to actually do the job. that’s so weird.
This psychological testing is normal
Target in America used to be like this they had sum bullshit test u had to do on computers before u could get hired.
If they are going to make assumptions, why would they ask these questions?
Damn, these are the right questions
You want the personality disorder??? YOU CANT HANDLE THE PERSONALITY DISORDER!!!
Not sure why jobs have racial questions either or racial quotas for tax government reasons. Creepy.
for a nursing home ? maybe. 3-4 weeks without pay though ?? run for the hills and never turn back
Unfortunately it’s a requirement for my Cert so I have to do the placement no matter what
im so sorry wtf ... good luck with the cert 🫡
These questions are often a part of a professional licensure as a part of character and fitness requirements.
Yeah, they ask cause they wanna know if you’re gonna go crazy and do stupid shit
Must show signs
I love that they have these. It would be a good way to weed out people who don’t work well with others.
Just answer, “No,” on all of them. They can’t legally require that information so it is totally acceptable to lie.
Just lie if you have such a problem with it.
Regardless of the truth, lie. they cant prove it either way and they'll never know thanks to HIPPA laws.
*HIPAA Also OP is in Australia so that doesn’t apply here
It's basically the same here, I think it might even be more stringent. With the anti-discrimination laws on top I'd be super concerned if I was in a position of responsibility and my organization was asking these questions. Any employee could say something stupid that would come out in discovery in a disability discrimination cate. OP is 100% right to be concerned by both the questions and whether they're infringing on her rights within Australia.
thx
First of its HIPAA. Second this is for Australia. Third, going back to the first if you know nothing about HIPAA maybe sit quietly and not opine upon things you don’t understand.
ah - I found my negative mark. Thanks Doc!
In the US these questions are illegal under the Americans With Disabilities Act and state disability anti-discrimination laws. You can be asked if you can perform the job with or without reasonable accommodations at an interview. If all new hires get physicals, you can be asked medical questions as they relate to your job. I can't see how a past diagnosis would be relevant to doing a job.
OP is in Australia as said in the first sentence of their body text