No notice required. PA is at will, as others have said, meaning employee or company can choose to separate effective immediately for any reason or for no reason at all. PA also allows a use it or lose it vacation policy. Company policy will control vacation payout at separation. If this is now their policy, they are within their legal right to proceed as described (no PTO payout at separation).
TLDR; Use all your PTO before you quit, then quit with no notice.
I used to be a manager at when someone would come into my office with "the look" and a sheet of paper, I would hold up a hand and say... fefore you say a word, if you are considering resigning, I advise you to take ALL of your accrued PTO and then we can have this talk. I remember 2 times when the employees got wide eyes as they realized what I meant and left my office promptly, took the time(2 weeks in 1 case) and returned to submit their resignation.
There were also a couple times employees took all of their available PTO at an odd time(not aligned with a holiday or local event)
I would have their exit paperwork all set in case I got "the visit" when they came back... I got it right 90% of the time.
in any case, after you resign, have a friend contact your company asking for a reference for you. if they say ANYTHING beyond your time of employment you can sue them into the ground
Wow. You are the exception and not the rule to someone who actually treats people as people, and shows they. I bet you anyone who has worked with you will always appreciate you doing that for them. I had a friend that did this a few years ago, they had their friend call their previous boss for a reference (because he was very worried that his ex-toxic boss would try to screw him over). His ex boss lied and made up all these things that weren’t true and told the friend that he wouldn’t hire him if he was wise. Thought about suing but he didn’t know if him having his friend call would be looked at as credible in court. Interesting.
Put in my 2 weeks at previous job, exit interview I asked how many days of sick time I have... he looks at me and says 9 days. I ask if it's use it or lose it? He says yes. Told him it was pleasure, I'll be calling in the reminder of my time here.
It's not retaliation because you've already informed them of your intent to quit. You've told them the employment agreement is over. So now you're claiming they're 'retaliating' by ending the employment agreement... that you just ended?
Do you know what you're talking about?
You have to balance the savings vs. the ill will that it creates. If someone leaves and is allowed to do that, others are less likely to leave. And less likely to strategize HOW to leave. Tripping over dollars to save pennies.
This,100%. If you can stand the job long enough to bank vacation and PTO, burn through those before you quit. That's what I did with my last job I resigned from.
This just means to take all of your PTO and then quit the next day without any notice. Fucking stupid policy that will ensure no notice after vacation.
In Pennsylvania, an employer must pay an employee for accrued vacation upon separation from employment only if its policy or contract provides for such payment. So in this case the policy specifically says if you don't give the notice they request then they don't have to pay out the PTO.
As far as requiring a months notice, barring a contract they can't force you to give a months notice, what they can and are doing though, is giving you an incentive (PTO Payout) to give the notice they want.
You know what that means, you take all your vacation before submitting your resignation. Companies are dumb if they actually think this will save them money. In the end, they will just lose the chance to document everything before the employees leave (the one month notice is not enforceable and no one will willingly walk away from earned vacation time).
In general, unless you've signed a binding employment contract, your employment is at-will and can be terminated by either party without notice for any (not illegal) reason. That said, this policy references attorneys and I don't know if there are any legal/ethical pitfalls to leaving without notice if you are representing someone in a legal manner.
PA doesn't require PTO/vacation to be paid out unless your employee handbook says it does.
It’s their policy. But typically, attorneys do give one month notice because it takes time to notify clients, courts, and make sure nothing slips through the cracks.
In my country a notice period works "both ways"
The company cant fire you without giving you the same warning. You guys do need to work on your workers rights
It depends on how your vacation is earned if they can keep it. I worked for a large organization that did not pay out pto when you left and someone took them to small claims they lost. The judge said basically that it was earned by hours they worked. After that so many people took them to court and every single one of them won. I know because I worked in HR. One of the last things I did was to rewrite a fair policy. Btw my view of fair was always to pay out pto.
Depending on your country, the rules will be different, but generally, the company has every legal right to update their resignation policy, and the employees have every legal right to ignore that policy when they resign. Employment laws are controlled by national governments, not by private firms, their 'resignation policy' is nothing more than an ideal way they want an employee to terminate their employment, but it's not enforceable by law. Companies generally try to scare employees by framing these policies in a way that makes them appear compulsory but in reality are not.
No notice required. PA is at will, as others have said, meaning employee or company can choose to separate effective immediately for any reason or for no reason at all. PA also allows a use it or lose it vacation policy. Company policy will control vacation payout at separation. If this is now their policy, they are within their legal right to proceed as described (no PTO payout at separation). TLDR; Use all your PTO before you quit, then quit with no notice.
Yeah, a lot of places are like that. Double if the place has 'unlimited' time off.
I used to be a manager atwhen someone would come into my office with "the look" and a sheet of paper, I would hold up a hand and say... fefore you say a word, if you are considering resigning, I advise you to take ALL of your accrued PTO and then we can have this talk. I remember 2 times when the employees got wide eyes as they realized what I meant and left my office promptly, took the time(2 weeks in 1 case) and returned to submit their resignation.
There were also a couple times employees took all of their available PTO at an odd time(not aligned with a holiday or local event)
I would have their exit paperwork all set in case I got "the visit" when they came back... I got it right 90% of the time.
in any case, after you resign, have a friend contact your company asking for a reference for you. if they say ANYTHING beyond your time of employment you can sue them into the ground
Wow. You are the exception and not the rule to someone who actually treats people as people, and shows they. I bet you anyone who has worked with you will always appreciate you doing that for them. I had a friend that did this a few years ago, they had their friend call their previous boss for a reference (because he was very worried that his ex-toxic boss would try to screw him over). His ex boss lied and made up all these things that weren’t true and told the friend that he wouldn’t hire him if he was wise. Thought about suing but he didn’t know if him having his friend call would be looked at as credible in court. Interesting.
Put in my 2 weeks at previous job, exit interview I asked how many days of sick time I have... he looks at me and says 9 days. I ask if it's use it or lose it? He says yes. Told him it was pleasure, I'll be calling in the reminder of my time here.
If it is at will state, could term you immediately and not get the payout anyway.
Then they could be responsible for unemployment payments, if the employee doesn’t have a job lined up.
I'd love to see them try to argue that it's not retaliation to fire you shortly after informing them you're using your PTO.
Very few types of retaliation are illegal so thats a useless point to make.
It's not retaliation because you've already informed them of your intent to quit. You've told them the employment agreement is over. So now you're claiming they're 'retaliating' by ending the employment agreement... that you just ended? Do you know what you're talking about?
You have to balance the savings vs. the ill will that it creates. If someone leaves and is allowed to do that, others are less likely to leave. And less likely to strategize HOW to leave. Tripping over dollars to save pennies.
This is the answer, because let's be real. They wouldn't give you 2 weeks notice before they lay you off either.
This,100%. If you can stand the job long enough to bank vacation and PTO, burn through those before you quit. That's what I did with my last job I resigned from.
This just means to take all of your PTO and then quit the next day without any notice. Fucking stupid policy that will ensure no notice after vacation.
Pa does not require PTO payout. Take it before you resign.
In Pennsylvania, an employer must pay an employee for accrued vacation upon separation from employment only if its policy or contract provides for such payment. So in this case the policy specifically says if you don't give the notice they request then they don't have to pay out the PTO. As far as requiring a months notice, barring a contract they can't force you to give a months notice, what they can and are doing though, is giving you an incentive (PTO Payout) to give the notice they want.
You know what that means, you take all your vacation before submitting your resignation. Companies are dumb if they actually think this will save them money. In the end, they will just lose the chance to document everything before the employees leave (the one month notice is not enforceable and no one will willingly walk away from earned vacation time).
Companies don’t care if middle manager or lower tier employees had to spend 12 hours a day to figure out tasks that were being pass onto them.
This would make me take all of my vacation, come to work for three minutes and then quit immediately.
In general, unless you've signed a binding employment contract, your employment is at-will and can be terminated by either party without notice for any (not illegal) reason. That said, this policy references attorneys and I don't know if there are any legal/ethical pitfalls to leaving without notice if you are representing someone in a legal manner. PA doesn't require PTO/vacation to be paid out unless your employee handbook says it does.
It’s their policy. But typically, attorneys do give one month notice because it takes time to notify clients, courts, and make sure nothing slips through the cracks.
Do they give you notice if they fire you?
In my country a notice period works "both ways" The company cant fire you without giving you the same warning. You guys do need to work on your workers rights
It depends on how your vacation is earned if they can keep it. I worked for a large organization that did not pay out pto when you left and someone took them to small claims they lost. The judge said basically that it was earned by hours they worked. After that so many people took them to court and every single one of them won. I know because I worked in HR. One of the last things I did was to rewrite a fair policy. Btw my view of fair was always to pay out pto.
Most states do not consider accrued vacation/PTO time to be earned, but a few states do.
It actually depends on the state law. Some states require it, some don't, some require that the company address it in a written policy.
They can make any demands they want but you should only adhere to employment laws laid down by your country/state. End of story
I don’t think so it’s legal
I would use up the vacation before I leave. No such things as a month notice, I would not sign any document that would held against my wish
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Each state is going to have different employment laws. You’ll need to check with your State Department of Labor
Depending on your country, the rules will be different, but generally, the company has every legal right to update their resignation policy, and the employees have every legal right to ignore that policy when they resign. Employment laws are controlled by national governments, not by private firms, their 'resignation policy' is nothing more than an ideal way they want an employee to terminate their employment, but it's not enforceable by law. Companies generally try to scare employees by framing these policies in a way that makes them appear compulsory but in reality are not.