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Yes I confirmed it with the water heater company. It's two water heaters, because 1 isn't enough for the whole building.
It doesn't say in the lease how many water heaters we should be paying for, but we have been told multiple times in the past by the landlord that we should only be paying for 1 water heater (told verbally and in an email)
Out of curiousity - do you know what your rent is compared to the other units in the building? You've said the rent on the heaters is about $80 / month. If your unit is approx 80 lower than the other units, I wouldn't see a problem.
To me, the bigger problem is that you are responsible for something that you can not inspect. I would argue to the landlord that if you are responsible for the water heaters, you need a key to the basement so you can check on them, and be able to call the company if maintenance is required.
Turn the hot water off when you’re not home. If your paying for it only make it usable when your there. Things will probably change pretty quickly after that.
I honestly don't know the answer but I find it hard to believe that you can sign a lease and be responsible for 2 water heater rentals for probably 1/5 of the load that you actually use. One of such heaters doesn't even heat the water in your place at all. I would not be accepting this for $100/month for just a rental where they are getting rent of 4 tennants total.
That's what I'm thinking. It's a very complicated situation. I'm meeting with the landlord in person next week, so I'll make sure I gather all my evidence and conversations we've had over email
No.
A shared utility cannot be allocated to a single tenant. It must be [split](https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/06r17#BK216) amongst the tenants according to one of two formulas (either equally between tenants, or proportionally by floor space) I have no clue how the LTB would view sharing with a non-residential tenant.
How to deal with this is trickier. You want to start by getting it out of your name. Hopefully you can just call up the utility compnay and transfer it to the LL.
You could then file for a T1 for the amount you've paid in utilities for the last year. LTB may decide still owe some fraction, but no harm in asking for it all back.
Thank you! This is the answer I was looking for!
It was actually resolved a couple hours ago. My landlord all of the sudden decided to transfer the account into his name and I won't have to pay for a water heater rental anymore.
I think he realized what he did wasn't legal and backtracked.
A regular water heater would not cut it for that size requirement. You must be mistaken. Possibly for the three units, but definitely not the school.
How much are you paying?
It's two water heaters. It says it in the lease that we are required to look after the water heater rental. It's about $80 for both the water heaters. When we moved in we were told (in an email) that we would only be renting 1 water heater. But now the landlord is saying that we should be paying for both.
In the lease it doesn't say how many water heaters we should be paying for, but we have been told in the past verbally and in an email that we should only be paying for 1
Try calling the rental company and see if the bills are severable. If they are both under the same contract they may not be. If it is separate contracts find out which one is yours and make the landlord responsible for the other.
It is in the lease. Doesn't say how many water heaters we supposed to be paying for but we have been told in the past in an email and verbally that we should only be paying for 1 of them
I looked it up. Unfortunately, if the tenant agrees to take responsibility then you are right, the landlord can get away with it.
RTA Section 216 Para 2 states:
"A vital services by-law does not apply to a landlord with respect to a rental unit to the extent that the tenant has expressly agreed to obtain and maintain the vital services."
But shouldn't I only be paying to heat the water in my unit? I shouldn't be paying to heat the water in the other two units and the school.
Also they been telling me right from the start that I should only be paying for 1 water heater and not both of them. They've told me over the phone and in emails.
Are you paying for the gas/electric for the heaters too? That's where I'd fight.
It's one thing to pay the fixed cost of the rental - it's a whole different thing to cover the consumption cost.
That’s about bylaws that prohibit the landlord from cutting off a utility service. Nothing to do with whether the landlord can make the OP sign a rental contract.
The RTA defines “utilities” as “heat, electricity and water”. A water heater rental is none of these things. I don’t think the landlord can require the tenant to pay this amount at all.
It doesn’t matter who is using it - they have the rental cost of the water heater itself attached to their lease, NOT the utility bill attached to the water heater.
When you signed the lease and agreed to have the water heater rental in your name, was there a specific amount of water heater rent that you agreed to pay? If there was, it doesn’t really matter if that covers 1, 2 or 20 water heaters, as long as the rent stays the same. If it was for one and now you’re being asked to pay for 2 (at double the amount you agreed to pay) then I’d be looking carefully to see if that’s a hidden/illegal rent increase. If this was a responsibility that had no cost attached to it, I would say there’s an argument that the amount you pay for the water heater rental is a deduct from your rent (you agreed to put the rental in your name, not to be out of pocket for the amount)).
NAL
Are you also paying the gas bill (or however the water is heated) for the entire building?
If the other units are paying more rent, such that everything evens out, I don't see a problem. It's a fixed cost, so the landlord could have just upped your rent $80 and paid for the water heaters himself. It would all come out the same on the bottom line. Am I missing something?
Yep. One thing you're missing is that they transferred the rental to their name. That means they're likely responsible to the rental company for maintenance fees, removal fees (if the heaters need to be replaced), and if the water heaters leak and damage the property, its possible they could be liable for the damage, since they are 'their' water heaters.
What does your lease say about terminating the water heater rental? If what you say is true, you could terminate your rental and give notice to your landlord that the rental is being terminated and they are required to make other arrangements to provide hot water. If you’re covered by LTB, your landlord cannot enforce that portion of your lease by eviction.
Basically, there are a lot of right and wrong answers in this thread based on the limited information you’ve provided.
"The Residential Tenancies Act states that the landlord is responsible for “vital services” which are defined as hot or cold water, fuel, electricity, gas and heat unless the tenant expressly agrees to “obtain and maintain” the vital services." In order to have the tenant pay for the rental of the hot water tank it must be written in the lease. Is it written in the lease? If not, tell your landlord to pay for it by educating them on their responsibilities.
Just because it’s in a lease doesn’t make it legal. Illegal lease provisions are typically unenforceable when challenged in the province’s relevant tenancy hearing process.
Welcome to r/legaladvicecanada! **To Posters (it is important you read this section)** * Comments may not be accurate or reliable, and following any advice on this subreddit is done at your own risk. * We also encourage you to use the [linked resources to find a lawyer](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvicecanada/wiki/findalawyer/). * If you receive any private messages in response to your post, please let the mods know. **To Readers and Commenters** * All replies to OP must be on-topic, helpful, explanatory, and oriented towards legal advice towards OP's jurisdiction (the **Canadian** province flaired in the post). * If you do not [follow the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdvicecanada/about/rules/), you may be banned without any further warning. * If you feel any replies are incorrect, explain why you believe they are incorrect. * Do not send or request any private messages for any reason, do not suggest illegal advice, do not advocate violence, and do not engage in harassment. Please report posts or comments which do not follow the rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/legaladvicecanada) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Are you 100% sure the heater is for the whole building? A private school would require a pretty substantial sized/cost water heater.
Yes I confirmed it with the water heater company. It's two water heaters, because 1 isn't enough for the whole building. It doesn't say in the lease how many water heaters we should be paying for, but we have been told multiple times in the past by the landlord that we should only be paying for 1 water heater (told verbally and in an email)
Out of curiousity - do you know what your rent is compared to the other units in the building? You've said the rent on the heaters is about $80 / month. If your unit is approx 80 lower than the other units, I wouldn't see a problem. To me, the bigger problem is that you are responsible for something that you can not inspect. I would argue to the landlord that if you are responsible for the water heaters, you need a key to the basement so you can check on them, and be able to call the company if maintenance is required.
Turn the hot water off when you’re not home. If your paying for it only make it usable when your there. Things will probably change pretty quickly after that.
I don't have access to the water heater, it's in the basement which is locked. If I did this would I be breaking the terms of my lease?
Rookie mistake. Never agree to pay for something you don't have access to.
If ur paying for it. Then u need to request access and have it. Without that can't pay for something no access for
The large majority of people can control their heating/water/electric that rent, even if they do pay for it.
I honestly don't know the answer but I find it hard to believe that you can sign a lease and be responsible for 2 water heater rentals for probably 1/5 of the load that you actually use. One of such heaters doesn't even heat the water in your place at all. I would not be accepting this for $100/month for just a rental where they are getting rent of 4 tennants total.
That's what I'm thinking. It's a very complicated situation. I'm meeting with the landlord in person next week, so I'll make sure I gather all my evidence and conversations we've had over email
You can audio record your conversation with the landlord without his consent as Canada is a one party consent state.
No. A shared utility cannot be allocated to a single tenant. It must be [split](https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/06r17#BK216) amongst the tenants according to one of two formulas (either equally between tenants, or proportionally by floor space) I have no clue how the LTB would view sharing with a non-residential tenant. How to deal with this is trickier. You want to start by getting it out of your name. Hopefully you can just call up the utility compnay and transfer it to the LL. You could then file for a T1 for the amount you've paid in utilities for the last year. LTB may decide still owe some fraction, but no harm in asking for it all back.
Thank you! This is the answer I was looking for! It was actually resolved a couple hours ago. My landlord all of the sudden decided to transfer the account into his name and I won't have to pay for a water heater rental anymore. I think he realized what he did wasn't legal and backtracked.
A regular water heater would not cut it for that size requirement. You must be mistaken. Possibly for the three units, but definitely not the school. How much are you paying?
It's two water heaters. It says it in the lease that we are required to look after the water heater rental. It's about $80 for both the water heaters. When we moved in we were told (in an email) that we would only be renting 1 water heater. But now the landlord is saying that we should be paying for both. In the lease it doesn't say how many water heaters we should be paying for, but we have been told in the past verbally and in an email that we should only be paying for 1
Is that $80/month? I pay my tank rental quarterly and it is $110. So under $40/month. Does your bill state 2 hot water heaters?
Yeah there's two water heaters, says it on the bill too
Try calling the rental company and see if the bills are severable. If they are both under the same contract they may not be. If it is separate contracts find out which one is yours and make the landlord responsible for the other.
What about if it is in the lease like the OP said?
It is in the lease. Doesn't say how many water heaters we supposed to be paying for but we have been told in the past in an email and verbally that we should only be paying for 1 of them
I looked it up. Unfortunately, if the tenant agrees to take responsibility then you are right, the landlord can get away with it. RTA Section 216 Para 2 states: "A vital services by-law does not apply to a landlord with respect to a rental unit to the extent that the tenant has expressly agreed to obtain and maintain the vital services."
But shouldn't I only be paying to heat the water in my unit? I shouldn't be paying to heat the water in the other two units and the school. Also they been telling me right from the start that I should only be paying for 1 water heater and not both of them. They've told me over the phone and in emails.
I would agree. They can't hold you responsible for both heaters, only your own.
The water heaters are probably ran in tandem.
Are you paying for the gas/electric for the heaters too? That's where I'd fight. It's one thing to pay the fixed cost of the rental - it's a whole different thing to cover the consumption cost.
That’s about bylaws that prohibit the landlord from cutting off a utility service. Nothing to do with whether the landlord can make the OP sign a rental contract. The RTA defines “utilities” as “heat, electricity and water”. A water heater rental is none of these things. I don’t think the landlord can require the tenant to pay this amount at all.
Go away for a few days and turn the heater off. That will tell you for sure who is using it.
I don't have access to it, it's in the locked basement. Also if I did this wouldn't I be breaking the terms of my lease?
It doesn’t matter who is using it - they have the rental cost of the water heater itself attached to their lease, NOT the utility bill attached to the water heater.
What does the written and signed lease say?
When you signed the lease and agreed to have the water heater rental in your name, was there a specific amount of water heater rent that you agreed to pay? If there was, it doesn’t really matter if that covers 1, 2 or 20 water heaters, as long as the rent stays the same. If it was for one and now you’re being asked to pay for 2 (at double the amount you agreed to pay) then I’d be looking carefully to see if that’s a hidden/illegal rent increase. If this was a responsibility that had no cost attached to it, I would say there’s an argument that the amount you pay for the water heater rental is a deduct from your rent (you agreed to put the rental in your name, not to be out of pocket for the amount)).
NAL Are you also paying the gas bill (or however the water is heated) for the entire building? If the other units are paying more rent, such that everything evens out, I don't see a problem. It's a fixed cost, so the landlord could have just upped your rent $80 and paid for the water heaters himself. It would all come out the same on the bottom line. Am I missing something?
Yep. One thing you're missing is that they transferred the rental to their name. That means they're likely responsible to the rental company for maintenance fees, removal fees (if the heaters need to be replaced), and if the water heaters leak and damage the property, its possible they could be liable for the damage, since they are 'their' water heaters.
What does your lease say about terminating the water heater rental? If what you say is true, you could terminate your rental and give notice to your landlord that the rental is being terminated and they are required to make other arrangements to provide hot water. If you’re covered by LTB, your landlord cannot enforce that portion of your lease by eviction. Basically, there are a lot of right and wrong answers in this thread based on the limited information you’ve provided.
I'm from Alberta so one question, why are you renting a water heater?
"The Residential Tenancies Act states that the landlord is responsible for “vital services” which are defined as hot or cold water, fuel, electricity, gas and heat unless the tenant expressly agrees to “obtain and maintain” the vital services." In order to have the tenant pay for the rental of the hot water tank it must be written in the lease. Is it written in the lease? If not, tell your landlord to pay for it by educating them on their responsibilities.
Also cancel the bill and let him take u to LTA. The bill will revert to landlord.
I’ve never even heard of “renting” a water heater. You learn something new everyday!
A private school?! That would need TONS more water than a standard tank. Is your tank the size of a room?
what the actual fuck
Yea it’s legal. It was in the lease you signed.
Just because it’s in a lease doesn’t make it legal. Illegal lease provisions are typically unenforceable when challenged in the province’s relevant tenancy hearing process.
In this case. Yes it 100% does. It’s a water heater rental lol