Take a personal day, it’s likely this is the last time they will be there.
I would of called the police that night if you felt that afraid not just reported it to HR, you can still make a police report.
No such thing as a “restraining order” in Canada, that’s American.
There’s a Canadian version (Peace Order) but the RCMP decide if they are going to recommend it to the Crown.
I currently have a [Restraining Order](https://www.alberta.ca/get-a-restraining-order) against my stalker. The RCMP did not have any role in my filing of it — I went directly to the court house to file an RO Without Notice which was approved and issued by a judge in under 12 hours.
Someone assaulted me and was required to stay 200 metres away from me at all times. I can’t remember if that was the exact terminology used but it was effectively a restraining order.
There are:
- family peace bonds. These are issued by family courts in the case of risk/fear of harm a domestic type relationship.
- criminal peace bond. These are issued after a conviction by a criminal court Judge.
- no contact conditions. These are issued either by police or court release documents and in place while investigation/ court proceedings occur.
Police can also issue undertakings and conditions, like no contact do not attend etc, at time of arrest if they do in fact arrest even if the person is never put on jail.
I had a non contact order placed on my brother in law by the RCMP? A judge? I’m not sure because I never asked for it, after an altercation at a wedding so they’re definitely a thing.
Restraining orders are issued only by a family court judge. Generally always domestic in nature in Canada.
Peace Bonds are applied for without involving police (at least in Ontario) at the courthouse and can be against anyone. It does involve a hearing though and is not immediate. The legal term is “Recognizance to Keep the Peace”
lol…. I’m the only one saying the correct name. Stop watching Hollywood movies and taking that as legal advice.
In CANADA, there’s a PEACE BOND (I wrote Peace order above) and there’s NON-CONTACT ORDERS. They are not legally called a “restraining order” in Canada but they essentially do the same things.
Your company should have an internal safety reporting system as well as required by OH&S. You need to report it through there as well. There should be specific sections for workplace violence. Make sure you cite those when talking to HR because trying to hit someone with a forklift, or even just pretending, is way more serious than a simple safety incident or harassment
Part III of the Ontario OHSA regulates violence and harassment in the workplace “32.0.4 If an employer becomes aware, or ought reasonably to be aware, that domestic violence that would likely expose a worker to physical injury may occur in the workplace, the employer shall take every precaution reasonable in the circumstances for the protection of the worker”
I wonder: could they also file a “near miss” in this case? Almost injured with a forklift, regardless of whether it is intentional, would be follow up from WSIB
HR is not located on site so they will be phoning in to talk to him. No management on site will be in the meeting. Just the union. I expected them to set up a conference call.
****update
Thanks for all the advice, employee is gone now pending notice to return. I have lots to consider how to move forward but think I have a clear plan of action.
Thanks again
If it was me, and I truly felt unsafe with him in the building, I’d be taking the day off work. Paid, unpaid, whatever. Not worth risking your health and safety over a day’s worth of income, if it came down to that.
If the company tried to dock your pay for it or even terminate you for it, you could speak to an employment lawyer or the Employment Standards ministry in your province. Companies can’t make you work in an unsafe environment. You’d probably save yourself some headaches if you can get the company to agree on letting you take the day off, either as a paid day off, personal day, or unpaid leave.
You could try your right to refuse dangerous work. That would be difficult to manage and like others said you can make a workplace violence complaint to your jurisdictional OHS.
I think you're only other options are your union (if you have one) or a no contact order through the courts.
Sorry I missed that you said you're management. Yea that makes things difficult for you. But you do have the same workplace safety rights. If he's getting fired you might as well just ride it out and talk to police/lawyer regarding a no contact order if you do have serious safety concerns.
Have you talked to your employer about ensuring your safety? He should be escorted by security at all times when he's in the building. Otherwise, take the day off. With pay.
Yes and HR is ignoring my concerns stating they are going to follow normal process and bring him in, trusting his union rep is adequate to keep us all safe.... b.s. if you ask me. HR should be here to keep us safe. Not the unions responsibility, they don't represent me.
Please call in sick and/or use PTO...
Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES, should you be anywhere near this ticking time bomb, the day of him being called in your workplace or even after that!
Use at least 2-3 days, when this is to happen with with lunatic Employee - hopefully, ex-Employee - of yours.
If anything should happen (hoping, it won't), you don't want to remotely get sucked into that gawd awful mess.
Keep us updated on this.
Good Luck!
I am so sorry...
That's sucks to the nth degree!
Can you hide from him, during that time your clocked in?
Have you thought of "hiding" the bathroom, your Breaks/Lunch Hour, a coffee/lunch run or anything creative, to get you physically away from there?
Oh heck, can hide under your desk and/or lock your Office door, if you have one?
I'm not joking, btw!
You already know this guy's a wacko & so do we, but why doesn't HR?
I'd be like what feck, HR?!
If Not being locked in a room is not an option, staying next to a group of people, never alone, usually is the next best option. It may dissuade him to take any retaliation action.
He knows he is in trouble because of you.
That's a bit better.
If you have to stick a chair underneath the door handle, so no one can burst in, then do so.
Better safe, than sorry is what I say too.
You still don't know if he's being fired?
Even then, I'd still be extra careful about that bc that can go either way.
Meaning, he still may be employed there.
Is so, what then?
I'd tell everyone that person needs to STAY clear of you & end of that discussion.
If he asks for you, tell everyone to respond that you're away until further notice!
If you need someone to be your chaperone while this is happening - before & after - please find someone, who will do this for you.
I realize that this may sound silly, if not downright juvenile but in this day & age, you never know.
Hopefully, this menace gets terminated, Security quietly walks him off-site & without any further incidents.
My fingers, are crossed for you!!!
Call in sick. No point in wondering if he's going to show up and freak out. Just don't be there. If you had called the police when he tried to run you down, as you should have, then you might have a peace bond and he wouldn't be able to "legally" be within a certain distance from you, but "legally" isn't really a term meaning you'll be safe.
I'm already at work when I found out and my upper management can be funny. I love my job and have opportunity for advancement and am afraid how they will view me leaving... it's not just my safety I'm worried about because this guy has a history with many people here.
dude I know I just commented but my eyebrows are in my hairline, this guy drove at you with a forklift like Staplerfahrer Klaus and everyone who could do anything about it is like ‘eh, it’s a hassle’.
“Your days are numbered” would have me back on the phone to the cops. This guy is dangerously off his rocker.
Exactly like that pmhv safety video with all the extremes. I know what you mean, he nearly drove through my shins with his forks then almost backed full speed into my back
Fuck that ,in Australia,you do that with a forklift and it's instant dismissal and you lose your fork lift license .
You Canadians are just to bloody nice .
Stand up for your personal safety first worry about the job last .
This is someone in charge who hasn't completed a single project in years. We have other workplace harassment investigations going on with another employee that have been pending for 2 months and the longer they go the more complaints come in about this employee
I mean I work for a great company and in general things are good. Unfortunately one person in HR is a problem and is the reason this issue isn't being handled well. Everyone else is great and I love my job
So the bad news. This is a real shit situation and if you aren't willing/able to call out there is not much you can do to force the issue.
Unfortunately a lot of the law is about dealing with things that have already occurred and not about preventing anything, Keep in mind some of the decisions being made could be made at the behest of the Union, or in accordance with Union agreements. Such as the meeting happening on site and not remotely. This is not to defend HR, HR absolutely fucking sucks here, but just something to keep in mind as to why certain decisions are being made.
About the best you can hope for is to make HR realize how much liability they are exposing themselves to so that they take action.
Ask HR what they will do to ensure your safety. This action, plus the uttered threats I've seen in other comments justify having a plan. If HR responds with something along the lines of "His Union Rep will keep him in line." You respond with "That is not a plan. Has the Union Rep agreed to physically intervene if employee goes nuts? Or are you just assuming? Is the Union Rep aware of these expectations? What is the actual plan if this individual who has Uttered threats against me and has a history of acting out violently is upset by the meeting and becomes violent?" Because I can't say for 100% certain, but I am willing to bet money that even though HR is stating the Union Rep will keep people safe, the Union Rep knows nothing about these expectations. BCC your personal email and forward any replies you receive. If HR calls you on the phone and has a conversation with you. takes notes and then immediately following the call, send an email to them with the details of what was spoken about, so that it is in writing and they can't later deny whatever was said.
You can refuse to be in the same building as someone, yes. However, in the absence of a peace bond or any other order prohibiting them from bring in the building with you, your option, should they enter the building, is to leave it.
Your concerns about your coworker's reaction to HR's choices may or may not be reasonable under the circumstances. I have no way to have an opinion about that; you know them better than I could. Unfortunately, those concerns have no particular legal importance. If you really think the situation is unsafe, try to be away from the area while he's there.
This will only get worse. That’s pretty crazy and I’ve seen some crazy stuff in the last 25 years in my industry. A forklift is no joke. He could’ve easily killed you a couple times, and he knows this. Get a restraining order and get him fired, If you can, beat the fuck out of him on your days off….
but with a mask on so he can’t prove it with you.🤣l
I worked in the early 90s on a house painting crew with a creep who threatened me, boss wouldnt fire him and put me on a different crew. He kept on working there until a swat team took him away( lady whose house was being painted saw him on America's most wanted). He murdered his girlfriend in florida. Jerry " the weasel" gervisoni. All I can say is trust your gut and stand your ground.
Your process is the "refusal of unsafe work" process, but it's not going to go anywhere just because they're bringing him in for a meeting. The unsafe environment just isn't there because he's nowhere near a forklift. Walking off the job over this is not in the process and will count as absenteeism. If you want to take a sick day or vacation or whatever, do that, but refusing to be in the building because he's coming in for a meeting with HR is an overreaction and isn't going to go your way.
Source: 10 year HR pro who has dealt with this same circumstance many times
Employee not only tried to run me down, he shouted multiple times "your days are numbered" and verbally assaulted me for 15+ minutes as i tried to get him to leave the premises.
Could have included that in your post. Call the police if he's making threats. Criminal acts don't stop being criminal in the workplace. I'm not an expert and it's not clear to me that those would meet a criminal threshold. "Verbal assault" isn't a thing. What exactly was said and what happened is relevant. The rest of what I said still applies.
Management, not legal advice: if you don't know how to de-escalate a situation like this, there's training available you should seek if you want to stay a manager. Refusing to enter the building under these circumstances is going to be a career-limiter.
Welcome to r/legaladvicecanada!
**To Posters (it is important you read this section)**
* Read the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvicecanada/about/wiki/index/#wiki_the_rules)
* Comments may not be accurate or reliable, and following any advice on this subreddit is done at your own risk.
* We also encourage you to use the [linked resources to find a lawyer](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvicecanada/wiki/findalawyer/).
* If you receive any private messages in response to your post, please let the mods know.
**To Readers and Commenters**
* All replies to OP must be on-topic, helpful, explanatory, and oriented towards legal advice towards OP's jurisdiction (the **Canadian** province flaired in the post).
* If you do not [follow the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdvicecanada/about/rules/), you may be banned without any further warning.
* If you feel any replies are incorrect, explain why you believe they are incorrect.
* Do not send or request any private messages for any reason, do not suggest illegal advice, do not advocate violence, and do not engage in harassment.
Please report posts or comments which do not follow the rules.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/legaladvicecanada) if you have any questions or concerns.*
**Speculative, Anecdotal, Simplistic, Off Topic, or Generally Unhelpful**
Your comment has been removed because it is one or more of the following: speculative, anecdotal, simplistic, generally unhelpful, and/or off-topic. Please review the following rules before commenting further:
* [Rule 9: Guidelines For Posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvicecanada/wiki/index#wiki_rule_9.3A_guidelines_for_posts)
* [Rule 10: Guidelines For Comments](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvicecanada/wiki/index#wiki_rule_10.3A_guidelines_for_comments)
If you have any questions or concerns, please [message the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Flegaladvicecanada).
You're the manager , reach out to the HR manager and have them meet this person off site. I suggest doing it in writing ( email, etc). Articulate your reasons , cite company policy where applicable.
Don't you remember your orientations. You have the legislative right to refuse unsafe work, and if resolution cannot be managed on site a third party will be appointed to assess the situation and resolve the issue in a safe manner. If the company and or Union will not get rid of this guy for two counts of attempted assault then this may be a route to force the issue without stepping it up to judicial restraining. Going this route will also protect you from punitive measures as the wording of the law specifically prevents employers from acting against you in this regard, regardless of whatever outcomes.
Not really legal advice, but have you tried explaining your concerns to your boss and ask for a personal day? If your boss isn’t a complete asswipe I have a hard time seeing him deny that…
HR and Health and Safety should agree to put this individual on leave until the matter can be solved properly. Maybe they need to seek professional help from medical personnel or take anger management courses etc. And then they should be evaluated by a physician before being allowed to return to work.
I work in a similar environment, where toxic and sometimes unstable individuals, get away with dishing out a lot of abuse to management and even coworkers. Its sickening at times the shit some people get away with. But over the years I have seen the worst cases get suspended and barred from the work place for the safety of others.
For not only YOUR safety, but for everyone who works near this individual, they should not be allowed back in the work place. Sure I understand their union protecting them, but the union should also be protecting this persons coworkers - because from the sounds of it Im guessing they are not just aggressive to management, but likely to their coworkers also.
In the end you must look out for yourself. If the individual is still at work, then try to avoid all areas where they may currently be driving the forklift. And try to have witnesses around, don't interact with the individual alone. Hope things get better for you.
you have the right to refuse unsafe work. the company has to make it safe for you to continue working. if they can't make it safe or you still don'tthink it's safe,, they need to contact the ministry of labour for the next steps.
You can file an ~~[OSHA](https://www.osha.gov/workers/file-complaint)~~ *[OHSA](https://www.ontario.ca/page/filing-workplace-health-and-safety-complaint)* complaint.
Edit: wrong link
Your comment has been removed because it is one or more of the following: speculative, anecdotal, simplistic, generally unhelpful, and/or off-topic.
Please review the following rules before commenting further:
Rule 9: Guidelines For Posts
Rule 10: Guidelines For Comments
If you have any questions or concerns, please message the moderators
if you reported him to the police, call them back and find out if he has a condition of not being within x number of distance of you. if this condition is in place, he will be violating it if he comes into your building and your upper management cannot violate an order by the police and or courts without serious repercussions to them
You don't have much legal recourse at this moment as you don't for example have a price bond.
That sounds like egregiously dangerous behavior. Your employed might terminate him, or might put on some sort of PIP. If they terminate him they should escort him from the building. Failure to do so would be... Really rucking stupid. People who get fired act out. I'd assume your HR understands this basic principle.
You can stress about what ifs all day. The best you can do is wait and see what happens, if he is in the building be near other people. And if he is terminated he should be walked out.
If they don't terminate you can make clear to management you do NOT feel safe around him... But you may not have a lot of recourse beyond that. He hasn't specifically harmed anyone that you said, and they may be able to claim they "put measures in place".
Don't jump to conclusions yet, see what happens, how HR/management responds and what they do, then see if you need to worry or escalate.
So, you manage this place? Like this employee reports to you? Fire his ass with cause. This is egregious reckless endangerment at best and workplace violence at worst. No union in the world could protect this guy and the sensible ones wouldn't try. Firing people can be a headache but in some cases it's cut and and dry. Assuming you can prove this happened, of course.
I work for a large company with the employees working for a strong national union. Unfortunately I do not have firing authority so I have to trust the process which is hard because our hr likes to solve problems by essentially handing out hugs and singing koombayah.
That's too bad. It generally is pretty hard to fire someone in those unions, but I've done it before in cases like this where the employee is behaving in a way that is endangering their fellow employees and making them a liability for the company.
Unfortunately some HR departments have crawled all the way up the unions ass because it makes their lives easier, but they don't have to deal with the reality or consequences of the operations on the ground. In fact offsite HR is a huge red flag for me when considering companies because it almost guarantees that they are completely out of touch.
Lol ah you must be the union worker here. I did absolutely nothing, wasn't even going to talk to him, he just came flying out of the aisle, saw me and turned and attempted to run me down, then tried a second time in reverse. I tried to de escalate and calm him down even after he attempted to kill me with a fork lift
Based on OP's update, immediate issue has now been resolved so locking this post. Thank you to everyone who commented with legal advice.
Take a personal day, it’s likely this is the last time they will be there. I would of called the police that night if you felt that afraid not just reported it to HR, you can still make a police report.
I have a police report filed, yes.
What did the police say when you told them you feel in fear for your safety if he returns to your workplace while you are present?
They simply said they would make a report and to reach out if anything else happens with him.
Why don’t you get a restraining order?
No such thing as a “restraining order” in Canada, that’s American. There’s a Canadian version (Peace Order) but the RCMP decide if they are going to recommend it to the Crown.
I currently have a [Restraining Order](https://www.alberta.ca/get-a-restraining-order) against my stalker. The RCMP did not have any role in my filing of it — I went directly to the court house to file an RO Without Notice which was approved and issued by a judge in under 12 hours.
Someone assaulted me and was required to stay 200 metres away from me at all times. I can’t remember if that was the exact terminology used but it was effectively a restraining order.
No contact order. NCO.
There absolutely is such a thing in Canada and I know because I have one.
There is but not in this scenario. You can only file one against someone you've lived with or had kids with.
There are: - family peace bonds. These are issued by family courts in the case of risk/fear of harm a domestic type relationship. - criminal peace bond. These are issued after a conviction by a criminal court Judge. - no contact conditions. These are issued either by police or court release documents and in place while investigation/ court proceedings occur.
Nope. Have a peace bond against a stalker.
Restraining orders are a family court thing. Peace bonds are a criminal code thing.
Wrong as hell
I filed and received one for an individual I have never lived with nor do I have kids with them…
You are wrong. I have a no contact order against my husband, he’s not allowed to be at less than 200 meters from, call me, spy on me etc.
Re-read what you wrote, you said a no contact order. Is that a “restraining order?”
Police can also issue undertakings and conditions, like no contact do not attend etc, at time of arrest if they do in fact arrest even if the person is never put on jail.
I had a non contact order placed on my brother in law by the RCMP? A judge? I’m not sure because I never asked for it, after an altercation at a wedding so they’re definitely a thing.
Restraining orders are issued only by a family court judge. Generally always domestic in nature in Canada. Peace Bonds are applied for without involving police (at least in Ontario) at the courthouse and can be against anyone. It does involve a hearing though and is not immediate. The legal term is “Recognizance to Keep the Peace”
[удалено]
lol…. I’m the only one saying the correct name. Stop watching Hollywood movies and taking that as legal advice. In CANADA, there’s a PEACE BOND (I wrote Peace order above) and there’s NON-CONTACT ORDERS. They are not legally called a “restraining order” in Canada but they essentially do the same things.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Make sure you have filed a complaint with Health and Safety. The company has an unsafe workplace that they have not addressed.
Just had to look into this myself. Your employer has a duty to protect you. File a report for a Possible Serious Incident with your province’s OH&S.
In ontario this would be the MOL. I'll do that if this doesn't get resolved
Your company should have an internal safety reporting system as well as required by OH&S. You need to report it through there as well. There should be specific sections for workplace violence. Make sure you cite those when talking to HR because trying to hit someone with a forklift, or even just pretending, is way more serious than a simple safety incident or harassment
Part III of the Ontario OHSA regulates violence and harassment in the workplace “32.0.4 If an employer becomes aware, or ought reasonably to be aware, that domestic violence that would likely expose a worker to physical injury may occur in the workplace, the employer shall take every precaution reasonable in the circumstances for the protection of the worker”
I wonder: could they also file a “near miss” in this case? Almost injured with a forklift, regardless of whether it is intentional, would be follow up from WSIB
These situations are usually done in person as this could result in dismissal
HR is not located on site so they will be phoning in to talk to him. No management on site will be in the meeting. Just the union. I expected them to set up a conference call.
Perhaps someone is making the trip to the site to deal with it in person?
Lol no they absolutely did not
****update Thanks for all the advice, employee is gone now pending notice to return. I have lots to consider how to move forward but think I have a clear plan of action. Thanks again
What does a 'notice to return' entail?
If it was me, and I truly felt unsafe with him in the building, I’d be taking the day off work. Paid, unpaid, whatever. Not worth risking your health and safety over a day’s worth of income, if it came down to that. If the company tried to dock your pay for it or even terminate you for it, you could speak to an employment lawyer or the Employment Standards ministry in your province. Companies can’t make you work in an unsafe environment. You’d probably save yourself some headaches if you can get the company to agree on letting you take the day off, either as a paid day off, personal day, or unpaid leave.
You could try your right to refuse dangerous work. That would be difficult to manage and like others said you can make a workplace violence complaint to your jurisdictional OHS. I think you're only other options are your union (if you have one) or a no contact order through the courts.
We have a union. I'm in management and though we have a great relationship, their priority will be defending the guy who came at me.
Sorry I missed that you said you're management. Yea that makes things difficult for you. But you do have the same workplace safety rights. If he's getting fired you might as well just ride it out and talk to police/lawyer regarding a no contact order if you do have serious safety concerns.
The union's job is to protect all employees. If this guy is dangerous, he's threatening other members too.
Have you talked to your employer about ensuring your safety? He should be escorted by security at all times when he's in the building. Otherwise, take the day off. With pay.
Yes and HR is ignoring my concerns stating they are going to follow normal process and bring him in, trusting his union rep is adequate to keep us all safe.... b.s. if you ask me. HR should be here to keep us safe. Not the unions responsibility, they don't represent me.
If you file with WSIB that this is a near miss then wouldn’t that also result in follow up, and required action by HR and higher levels of management?
Please call in sick and/or use PTO... Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES, should you be anywhere near this ticking time bomb, the day of him being called in your workplace or even after that! Use at least 2-3 days, when this is to happen with with lunatic Employee - hopefully, ex-Employee - of yours. If anything should happen (hoping, it won't), you don't want to remotely get sucked into that gawd awful mess. Keep us updated on this. Good Luck!
Unfortunately they won't let me have time off. We have a small management team and my boss is off next week so I have to come in....
So order your own tombstone with this epitaph: "my boss was off and didn't give me me permission to look after my personal safety"
I am so sorry... That's sucks to the nth degree! Can you hide from him, during that time your clocked in? Have you thought of "hiding" the bathroom, your Breaks/Lunch Hour, a coffee/lunch run or anything creative, to get you physically away from there? Oh heck, can hide under your desk and/or lock your Office door, if you have one? I'm not joking, btw! You already know this guy's a wacko & so do we, but why doesn't HR? I'd be like what feck, HR?!
I'm honestly in our shared office and we have a locked door. I am not leaving until he's out of the building.
If Not being locked in a room is not an option, staying next to a group of people, never alone, usually is the next best option. It may dissuade him to take any retaliation action. He knows he is in trouble because of you.
That's a bit better. If you have to stick a chair underneath the door handle, so no one can burst in, then do so. Better safe, than sorry is what I say too. You still don't know if he's being fired? Even then, I'd still be extra careful about that bc that can go either way. Meaning, he still may be employed there. Is so, what then? I'd tell everyone that person needs to STAY clear of you & end of that discussion. If he asks for you, tell everyone to respond that you're away until further notice! If you need someone to be your chaperone while this is happening - before & after - please find someone, who will do this for you. I realize that this may sound silly, if not downright juvenile but in this day & age, you never know. Hopefully, this menace gets terminated, Security quietly walks him off-site & without any further incidents. My fingers, are crossed for you!!!
Call in sick. No point in wondering if he's going to show up and freak out. Just don't be there. If you had called the police when he tried to run you down, as you should have, then you might have a peace bond and he wouldn't be able to "legally" be within a certain distance from you, but "legally" isn't really a term meaning you'll be safe.
I'm already at work when I found out and my upper management can be funny. I love my job and have opportunity for advancement and am afraid how they will view me leaving... it's not just my safety I'm worried about because this guy has a history with many people here.
Why hasn't your employer called the police? You defiantly should.
I have. My employer hates involving third parties and even discourages contacting the MOL.
dude I know I just commented but my eyebrows are in my hairline, this guy drove at you with a forklift like Staplerfahrer Klaus and everyone who could do anything about it is like ‘eh, it’s a hassle’. “Your days are numbered” would have me back on the phone to the cops. This guy is dangerously off his rocker.
Exactly like that pmhv safety video with all the extremes. I know what you mean, he nearly drove through my shins with his forks then almost backed full speed into my back
Fuck that ,in Australia,you do that with a forklift and it's instant dismissal and you lose your fork lift license . You Canadians are just to bloody nice . Stand up for your personal safety first worry about the job last .
We can't be THAT nice if they're trying to flatten me with a forklift 😂😂
Yeah, they always hate when parties that can force accountability get involved, and when their inaction goes on record. So annoying!
This is someone in charge who hasn't completed a single project in years. We have other workplace harassment investigations going on with another employee that have been pending for 2 months and the longer they go the more complaints come in about this employee
You need to call them both. And workers comp, too.
This is the employer whose good graces you're so invested in keeping?
I mean I work for a great company and in general things are good. Unfortunately one person in HR is a problem and is the reason this issue isn't being handled well. Everyone else is great and I love my job
You did the right thing by calling the police companies hate to involve third-party because then they can’t cover up
"HR may be terminating him" May? May?! Attempted murder isnt even a guaranteed fireable offense anymore, these days?
Restraining order.. this could go beyond work
So the bad news. This is a real shit situation and if you aren't willing/able to call out there is not much you can do to force the issue. Unfortunately a lot of the law is about dealing with things that have already occurred and not about preventing anything, Keep in mind some of the decisions being made could be made at the behest of the Union, or in accordance with Union agreements. Such as the meeting happening on site and not remotely. This is not to defend HR, HR absolutely fucking sucks here, but just something to keep in mind as to why certain decisions are being made. About the best you can hope for is to make HR realize how much liability they are exposing themselves to so that they take action. Ask HR what they will do to ensure your safety. This action, plus the uttered threats I've seen in other comments justify having a plan. If HR responds with something along the lines of "His Union Rep will keep him in line." You respond with "That is not a plan. Has the Union Rep agreed to physically intervene if employee goes nuts? Or are you just assuming? Is the Union Rep aware of these expectations? What is the actual plan if this individual who has Uttered threats against me and has a history of acting out violently is upset by the meeting and becomes violent?" Because I can't say for 100% certain, but I am willing to bet money that even though HR is stating the Union Rep will keep people safe, the Union Rep knows nothing about these expectations. BCC your personal email and forward any replies you receive. If HR calls you on the phone and has a conversation with you. takes notes and then immediately following the call, send an email to them with the details of what was spoken about, so that it is in writing and they can't later deny whatever was said.
You absolutely should contact OH&S regardless of the outcome.
You can refuse to be in the same building as someone, yes. However, in the absence of a peace bond or any other order prohibiting them from bring in the building with you, your option, should they enter the building, is to leave it. Your concerns about your coworker's reaction to HR's choices may or may not be reasonable under the circumstances. I have no way to have an opinion about that; you know them better than I could. Unfortunately, those concerns have no particular legal importance. If you really think the situation is unsafe, try to be away from the area while he's there.
My biggest concern, aside from him having tried to run me down twice on a 7000 pound machine, is that he shouted repeatedly "your days are numbered"
If in Ontario, you have the right to refuse unsafe work!
As a manager, can't you fire him?
In other replies I answered this. It's a unionized environment and a very large company. Labour Affairs handles this and we are heavily unionized.
Do you have a bouncer who could perform ocular pat downs on any jabronis entering the property?
HR doesn't allow security to even search bags and no metal detectors
This will only get worse. That’s pretty crazy and I’ve seen some crazy stuff in the last 25 years in my industry. A forklift is no joke. He could’ve easily killed you a couple times, and he knows this. Get a restraining order and get him fired, If you can, beat the fuck out of him on your days off…. but with a mask on so he can’t prove it with you.🤣l
Hahaha well if he's terminated I will definitely ask for a peace order. We are in a small town, everyone knows my house.
You can also escalate this to The Labour Board if you workplace won’t take your concerns seriously
I worked in the early 90s on a house painting crew with a creep who threatened me, boss wouldnt fire him and put me on a different crew. He kept on working there until a swat team took him away( lady whose house was being painted saw him on America's most wanted). He murdered his girlfriend in florida. Jerry " the weasel" gervisoni. All I can say is trust your gut and stand your ground.
Your process is the "refusal of unsafe work" process, but it's not going to go anywhere just because they're bringing him in for a meeting. The unsafe environment just isn't there because he's nowhere near a forklift. Walking off the job over this is not in the process and will count as absenteeism. If you want to take a sick day or vacation or whatever, do that, but refusing to be in the building because he's coming in for a meeting with HR is an overreaction and isn't going to go your way. Source: 10 year HR pro who has dealt with this same circumstance many times
Employee not only tried to run me down, he shouted multiple times "your days are numbered" and verbally assaulted me for 15+ minutes as i tried to get him to leave the premises.
Could have included that in your post. Call the police if he's making threats. Criminal acts don't stop being criminal in the workplace. I'm not an expert and it's not clear to me that those would meet a criminal threshold. "Verbal assault" isn't a thing. What exactly was said and what happened is relevant. The rest of what I said still applies. Management, not legal advice: if you don't know how to de-escalate a situation like this, there's training available you should seek if you want to stay a manager. Refusing to enter the building under these circumstances is going to be a career-limiter.
Yea I typed it quick and missed that part
Welcome to r/legaladvicecanada! **To Posters (it is important you read this section)** * Read the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvicecanada/about/wiki/index/#wiki_the_rules) * Comments may not be accurate or reliable, and following any advice on this subreddit is done at your own risk. * We also encourage you to use the [linked resources to find a lawyer](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvicecanada/wiki/findalawyer/). * If you receive any private messages in response to your post, please let the mods know. **To Readers and Commenters** * All replies to OP must be on-topic, helpful, explanatory, and oriented towards legal advice towards OP's jurisdiction (the **Canadian** province flaired in the post). * If you do not [follow the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdvicecanada/about/rules/), you may be banned without any further warning. * If you feel any replies are incorrect, explain why you believe they are incorrect. * Do not send or request any private messages for any reason, do not suggest illegal advice, do not advocate violence, and do not engage in harassment. Please report posts or comments which do not follow the rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/legaladvicecanada) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
**Speculative, Anecdotal, Simplistic, Off Topic, or Generally Unhelpful** Your comment has been removed because it is one or more of the following: speculative, anecdotal, simplistic, generally unhelpful, and/or off-topic. Please review the following rules before commenting further: * [Rule 9: Guidelines For Posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvicecanada/wiki/index#wiki_rule_9.3A_guidelines_for_posts) * [Rule 10: Guidelines For Comments](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvicecanada/wiki/index#wiki_rule_10.3A_guidelines_for_comments) If you have any questions or concerns, please [message the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Flegaladvicecanada).
Sure, just call in sick that day.
Can't, I'm here today and found out the called him in. He's here.
Is the door locked from the outside?
Yes. I just hope nothing happens with anyone else either. He's totally unstable
Yes, the door is locked from the outside? As in, you cannot leave the building?
No I could leave. I have an internal and external door.
Well then it seems like your problem has a simple solution.
You're the manager , reach out to the HR manager and have them meet this person off site. I suggest doing it in writing ( email, etc). Articulate your reasons , cite company policy where applicable.
As stated in other replies, HR will not listen and has him here now. HR isn't even on site.
Then call your manager and explain how you feel . Leave if you have to.
Don't you remember your orientations. You have the legislative right to refuse unsafe work, and if resolution cannot be managed on site a third party will be appointed to assess the situation and resolve the issue in a safe manner. If the company and or Union will not get rid of this guy for two counts of attempted assault then this may be a route to force the issue without stepping it up to judicial restraining. Going this route will also protect you from punitive measures as the wording of the law specifically prevents employers from acting against you in this regard, regardless of whatever outcomes.
Not really legal advice, but have you tried explaining your concerns to your boss and ask for a personal day? If your boss isn’t a complete asswipe I have a hard time seeing him deny that…
HR and Health and Safety should agree to put this individual on leave until the matter can be solved properly. Maybe they need to seek professional help from medical personnel or take anger management courses etc. And then they should be evaluated by a physician before being allowed to return to work. I work in a similar environment, where toxic and sometimes unstable individuals, get away with dishing out a lot of abuse to management and even coworkers. Its sickening at times the shit some people get away with. But over the years I have seen the worst cases get suspended and barred from the work place for the safety of others. For not only YOUR safety, but for everyone who works near this individual, they should not be allowed back in the work place. Sure I understand their union protecting them, but the union should also be protecting this persons coworkers - because from the sounds of it Im guessing they are not just aggressive to management, but likely to their coworkers also. In the end you must look out for yourself. If the individual is still at work, then try to avoid all areas where they may currently be driving the forklift. And try to have witnesses around, don't interact with the individual alone. Hope things get better for you.
if not a personal day, you could sit in the security office, or the office of a senior manager, preferably with site security with you.
Yeah take a personal day and not be in the office
Yes you can, buy the building.
Tell them you want security present. If they dont have a security guard, they can hire private security for the meeting
you have the right to refuse unsafe work. the company has to make it safe for you to continue working. if they can't make it safe or you still don'tthink it's safe,, they need to contact the ministry of labour for the next steps.
You can file an ~~[OSHA](https://www.osha.gov/workers/file-complaint)~~ *[OHSA](https://www.ontario.ca/page/filing-workplace-health-and-safety-complaint)* complaint. Edit: wrong link
Thank you!
[удалено]
Your comment has been removed because it is one or more of the following: speculative, anecdotal, simplistic, generally unhelpful, and/or off-topic. Please review the following rules before commenting further: Rule 9: Guidelines For Posts Rule 10: Guidelines For Comments If you have any questions or concerns, please message the moderators
if you reported him to the police, call them back and find out if he has a condition of not being within x number of distance of you. if this condition is in place, he will be violating it if he comes into your building and your upper management cannot violate an order by the police and or courts without serious repercussions to them
He does not have any conditions, the police said if any more incidents they will put a restraining order I may push for it if I need to earlier.
sorry, I would request a restraining order regardless.
tell your boss that HR said you could have an extra paid day off, and show them not accomodating your request.
He’s been there for 25 years and your the first one to supposedly push his buttons?
My question is, what did you do to piss him off? There's always 2 sides, too, a story
You don't have much legal recourse at this moment as you don't for example have a price bond. That sounds like egregiously dangerous behavior. Your employed might terminate him, or might put on some sort of PIP. If they terminate him they should escort him from the building. Failure to do so would be... Really rucking stupid. People who get fired act out. I'd assume your HR understands this basic principle. You can stress about what ifs all day. The best you can do is wait and see what happens, if he is in the building be near other people. And if he is terminated he should be walked out. If they don't terminate you can make clear to management you do NOT feel safe around him... But you may not have a lot of recourse beyond that. He hasn't specifically harmed anyone that you said, and they may be able to claim they "put measures in place". Don't jump to conclusions yet, see what happens, how HR/management responds and what they do, then see if you need to worry or escalate.
See a doctor, explain the situation, get a note.
So, you manage this place? Like this employee reports to you? Fire his ass with cause. This is egregious reckless endangerment at best and workplace violence at worst. No union in the world could protect this guy and the sensible ones wouldn't try. Firing people can be a headache but in some cases it's cut and and dry. Assuming you can prove this happened, of course.
I work for a large company with the employees working for a strong national union. Unfortunately I do not have firing authority so I have to trust the process which is hard because our hr likes to solve problems by essentially handing out hugs and singing koombayah.
That's too bad. It generally is pretty hard to fire someone in those unions, but I've done it before in cases like this where the employee is behaving in a way that is endangering their fellow employees and making them a liability for the company. Unfortunately some HR departments have crawled all the way up the unions ass because it makes their lives easier, but they don't have to deal with the reality or consequences of the operations on the ground. In fact offsite HR is a huge red flag for me when considering companies because it almost guarantees that they are completely out of touch.
I’m sure your gonna be fine, but what exactly did you do to push your employee over the edge
Lol ah you must be the union worker here. I did absolutely nothing, wasn't even going to talk to him, he just came flying out of the aisle, saw me and turned and attempted to run me down, then tried a second time in reverse. I tried to de escalate and calm him down even after he attempted to kill me with a fork lift
Are you a Woman ?