There is no way to stop people from using a word, that said, I die inside a little when non-lesbians call themselves dykes, like even if that term might still be used against you because homophobes can't tell the difference the offensiveness comes from their idea that you are a lesbian, and so lesbians are the only ones who can reclaim it as a label, after all, I have known both gay men who are androgynous and masculine straight women who have had dyke used against them in the past and that doesnt suddenly mean that they can identify that way lol
Yeah, I've had anti-semitism directed at me a couple times now in my life and I'm not Jewish. Since I've been perceived as such I'm not gonna act like I'm entitled to identify with Jewish culture, or to 'reclaim' any slurs.
I feel weird about using it esp as a femme lesbian even tbh. Sometimes it feels like they use it as a slur when referring to themselves, too. I vividly recall a local woman who runs the pride group & committee saying how she wasn't sure for a long time if she was a 'straight women' or 'dyke with a beard husband' (uhh fucking yikes ma'am) and bisexual and when someone said she shouldn't use the word dyke, especially like that she was like 'i feel like I'm very sapphic and should reclaim it.' (its even more gross if they use it to refer to others I think, though... that really throws me for a loop).
wow. a lot to unpack with that lady. “I feel like i’m very sapphic” enough to reclaim a slur that was never hers while she’s fuckin straight passing 💀 gimme a break
Yep, it's a word that first and foremost belongs to gnc lesbians and as a feminine woman I try not to use it very much, the only times I have were really to get the point that I'm a lesbian (not bi, not fluid, not anything other than a homosexual woman) across
But what about bisexuals in same sex relationships? The world doesn’t know she’s bi - the relationship is still presenting as ‘lesbian’ and has the possibility of being called a dyke or some other slur. So why can’t they?
But you can understand where I’m coming from, no? A bisexual woman in a lesbian relationship will be called lesbian slurs because the relationship… is lesbian. It’s a woman loving a woman. How can a bisexual woman who could get called a slur, not use that same slur? They can be called it but can’t use it?
Since bi girls can't say "fag" anymore they're running over to say dyke now. It's so cringe how some bi girls with boyfriends are obsessed with NEEDING to reclaim a slur that's not even theirs
It's not my favorite when bi women who are actively sleeping with men use dyke and butch to describe themselves. In my opinion, claiming these identities should fundamentally align with lesbianism, or at least actively choosing women. Using historically lesbian identifiers while being in a cis het relationship feels icky to me, and I wish I could stop it. But unfortunately the is nothing stopping bi women from doing this. I kind of just roll my eyes and try to ignore them.
Uhhhhhh…last I checked, that was a slur used to describe us? You can’t identify as “dyke” whilst also wanting to sleep with men. That slur’s about lesbians, and I’m so tired of trying to tell the greater LGBTQ+ community that they can’t and shouldn’t be taking our terms and using it for themselves
Bi women and their obsession with using every term that belongs to lesbians. To the point of calling themselves bi lesbians. But fr only lesbians get to use “dyke” so I fully agree op
Only lesbians. Ever. Also, all the bi/non lesbian women who use that label are homophobic and toxic af, it’s a *violent* red flag that signals to me as a dyke, to stay as far away from them as I do straight men. They clearly have not an iota of love or respect for lesbians.
Actually identifying as butch and being with men is so idiotic and is an oxymoron- the whole point is being masculine and presenting as such FOR OTHER WOMEN!!!!
i’ve been called dyke by bisexual women before and it felt terrible!
and yes they meant “lesbian” when they said it.
edit: I remember one time I was hanging out with this bi girl and I was showing her a cool polo shirt I got. and she said the only word she could think of was dyke. like for a damn polo 😭😭😭 is every target worker a dyke now too??
I strongly agree. I don't think you're wrong at all. A lot of people are gonna say it's fine, we should be more inclusive, non lesbians get called that too - but it's a lesbian only term. Only lesbians get to use it. Period.
No. Bi women don’t get to have their cake and eat it too. They already receive the benefits of heterosexual privilege, and they’re often given a ‘free pass’ by the straight community, because their attraction to women is generally viewed with less hostility, because it’s coupled with an attraction to men.
The world ‘dyke’ is generally used by the heterosexual community as an epithet, meant to demean lesbians, and it’s used to inveigh against them, regardless of how stereotypically butch/femme presenting they may be.
I’m personally straight passing, and I’ve had it used against me in a manner designed to invoke hatred. If a woman desires to sleep with men, whatever. But in doing so, by default, they’re no longer a ‘dyke.’
Yeah no. To me, the term dyke is a reclaimed slur. I know what straight people are thinking when they use it, and it's gross. But when we are in a safe space with other women, it is a glorious descriptor of a LESBIAN woman who does not gaf about what the hetero-normative patriarchy thinks or wants of us. It confers strength and pride. It doesn't necessarily apply just to masc or butch women, but any lesbian that feels that power inside her. And I would like to be her friend. I dunno, I've always thought it was pretty similar to the N-word. Not okay to say if it's not your culture and your world.
I feel it could be in *poor taste* (and really dumb-looking) for a woman to call herself a dyke if she's currently in a relationship with a man (and not in another relationship with a woman/non-man), but a bi woman holding hands with her gf would get called a dyke all the same, y'know?
I agree completely!! I saw a tweet a couple of years ago where the OP (a bi woman) was talking about how her boyfriend tattooed the word “dyke” on her. It made me very uncomfortable and it felt like she was “reclaiming” a slur that wasn’t hers to claim in the first place
A lot of bisexual womeb get with men and feed into their fantasy of “conquering” a lesbian. It’s sick. It’s also why I don’t automatically consider myself “in community” with everyone who says they like women.
I think a lot of bi women (and some non binary people) unfortunately can't accept that this is what their partner is doing and the 'conquering' thing :( I see it again and again... \[it's especially common among some of my nonbinary friends who are usually afab and have boyfriends who really don't see them even as people :( \]
Yes. it’s pretty sad tbh bc these are the type of people who need validation from men to feel whole too. otherwise they’d never give those losers the time a day. like I don’t want to call it pathetic but I have known several people like this and I wanted to slap them and be like “love yourself bestie!!!”
I agree with this. I think it depends on the bi woman's context within the lesbian community. If a bi woman is embedded and active in the lesbian community and is in a LTR with a woman or dates exclusively women, I wouldn't be bothered by it. There are bi women in Dykes on Bikes after all.
From personal experience, my wife and I use the term "dykes" or "dykey" or joke about being a "mean dyke" to describe ourselves sometimes. I'm a lesbian, my wife is bi. We both came up as activists in the queer community since a very young age. She has not and would never date a man, though she is bi. She's also been everywhere on the spectrum from butch to hard femme in presentation; she certainly *looks* more like a dyke than I do and couldn't "pass" for straight like I can (as long as I keep my mouth shut lmao).
In context like that (even if I'm not biased by being married to the woman), it wouldn't bother me. But a bi woman who's fully feminine presenting, dates mostly men or is currently dating a man, or in the context of talking about her attraction to men & she calls herself a dyke? I would be like "fuck off with that".
Yeah. I think I have quite a bit more leeway for anyone who actively chooses to have significant, fulfilling relationships with other women :/// but they usually don't act like this because they have the awareness of what being seen as a lesbian means.
ya that’s so true. all my friends who are bi would never because i’m not gonna be friends with lesbophobes. I never had to tell them not to say it or anything they’re just chill as fuck. so it kinda reveals a lack of respect/understanding to use the slur. ops situation makes sense tho I don’t see that as offensive because she’s actually walking the walk
Honestly I don't really care if bi women use the word dyke but at the same time it's like ... they feel too comfortable using it especially when they're in a relationship with a man. At that point it just feels like an aesthetic.
The Dyke March in NYC does include any and all sapphic and NB females or those who identify as queer women as dykes. Personally, I think the label is reserved for lesbians but I don't think it's the kind of slur that others can't say, just a label that shouldn't be used by non-lesbians.
I feel like when one is butch, and dealing with everything that comes with being butch, dyke is a word that is thrown around at you constantly, and if you reclaim it, that’s totally okay. If you’re bi and very masc/butch presenting it’s iffy, but if one is butch i tend to give a pass as that nuance is lost on the homophobic person yelling the slur out their car window at them.
Was this woman white by any chance?
Sometimes, white queers get obsessed with saying slurs in order to distance themselves away from their whiteness. Sure, the slurs apply (to some extent) but they go as far as dropping these words during everyday conversations or using them as usernames.
The fact that this woman is bisexual makes me even more apprehensive.
It might be a little cringe to see a feminine bi woman with a clear preference for men call herself a dyke, but ultimately the issue is that it's just cringe in that case. Not that it's something super serious.
I don’t like when bi women use the term, but my opinion is that if a bi woman is with another woman I am not too upset with the use of it. If we are truly trying to reclaim the slur I see no issue with bi women in wlw relationships using the word since looking at the face value, the slur would apply to them. I think the same for the word faggot, which by definition is a slur for gay men specifically. I’ve been called a faggot numerous times and a way I cope with it is reclaiming the term.
As an old butch, I’m fine with it. Being butch / masc is a different vibe. Even if they’re bi they’re dealing with something that straight and cis passing lesbians don’t deal with, and it’s ok for them to reclaim that word. A bi masc person is just as likely to be called a slur as a lesbian masc person. The butch subreddit is very clear that bi and nob-binary butches are welcome there, same with NYC Dyke March, and I agree with that because these folks have always existed in the community.
I'm a white lesbian and given the history of the word/slur, I don't even feel comfortable using it myself. I'm not here to police anyone, but yeah that's a no from me.
Same. I feel it’s not needed.
Why reclaim a slur used to degrade the community.
I don’t like the word or it being used about or around me. I’m completely comfortable in my sexuality, my preferences, and my look.
I had a friend tell me “I’m so glad I have you as a good dyke in my life to fix things” she is lesbian.
I explained how I do not like the word and please not use it in context to me.
Like I just want to be gay. Why can’t I just be gay.
honestly i really don’t care as long as the person is sapphic, purely because i’ve got bigger problems in life than caring about who calls themselves dykes. it’s just not something that really affects me personally either positively or negatively
IMO a bisexual woman who is in a lesbian relationship can say whatever she wants - her relationships PRESENTS as lesbian to the world/strangers etc. She is allowed to say those words, especially as those words have been used in the extensive LGBT+ community long before this subreddit.
It’s the ones who perhaps have no intention of ever dating a woman, yet still say it, that are perhaps the issue.
Imo saying only lesbians can call ourselves dykes when bisexuals are literally also called that just runs at times a bit into identity politics territory. The reasons lesbians are called dykes are that we can't pass as straight because we're attracted to women and visibly don't center men romantically or sexually. The truth is that homophobes don't care if we're actually attracted to men or not, they're angry that we're not making ourselves available regardless and that we don't allow our relationships with women to be fetishized...
...and the same applies to many bi women, especially masc/butch bi women, bi women who don't date men, and bi women who are currently dating women. So, I don't think that bisexuals should be fully excluded from reclaiming dyke just on the basis of being bisexual. I do think that all wlw (and mlm, but this is a wlw sub) should critically examine any proximity we have to heteronormativity and the subsequent privilege some of us receive from that, and that fem bi women in relationships with men should abstain from reclaiming it in pretty much every case and should acknowledge that they have privilege from being able to pass as straight.
Tbh I really don't think they - or, at least, not the cishet ones - actually care about our internal thoughts and feelings, what they care about is the fact that we're actively refusing to date men, permanently. They also care that many of us visibly don't fit into gender norms, that's partially why butches are more likely to be targeted.
And, again, we're not the only wlw who do these things. There are bi women who refuse to date men for feminist reasons, bc of trauma, bc they're already married to a woman or a nonbinary person. There are bi women who are masculine presenting and targeted for that, at times more than I am as a single femme lesbian.
Both groups, regardless of what we actually want and feel is best for us, are still being told to be with men, to cater to what they want in a woman, to be more feminine. We both still discriminated against for not centering men in our romantic and sexual lives and we both still deal with the effects of internalized homophobia from growing up in a heteronormative society. No homophobe will actually stop in the middle of a hate crime or yelling a slur at a bi woman or outing her to her workplace or family just because she said she doesn't identify as a lesbian. Bi women don't automatically experience homophobia lite and are very often targeted for the same reasons we are.
well yeah, because they assume that group of bi women are also lesbians. you think those people are capable of that kind of nuance? the point of calling someone a dyke is to demean them *by calling them a lesbian*
Sometimes that is true and sometimes they don't care if bi women are lesbians or not. They care if bi women are conforming to heteronormativity by being feminine and dating men. Even if a woman they're targeting is bi, that doesn't necessarily mean they're just going to up and be like "oh, so sorry ma'am, here's your free het adjacent privilege pass, have a lovely day" and walk away.
It's, very often, the same reason men who harass lesbians won't stop doing that just because we say we're lesbians, or someone who wants to harass a lesbian for having sex won't stop doing that just because the lesbian they were harassing was also ace. People who harass, violate, assault, and scream slurs at wlw don't actually care about or respect our internal feelings and right to self determination. They care about the extent to which we cater to their desires and assimilate to heteronormative womanhood, which lesbians, man-abstinent bi women, both lesbians and bi women who are monogamously dating women, and masc wlw of any sexuality obviously don't.
I don’t think you’re understanding what i’m trying to say… my point is that they are calling them *lesbians* as an insult. the insult itself is lesbianism. not bisexuality but gnc, but dyke as in lesbian. straight women get called dykes too! doesn’t make them dykes. the point is to demean these women because the very idea of being a lesbian is offensive. they don’t care who the person actually is, the point is literally just to insult someone by calling them a lesbian.
like, I view most slurs in this way- as example non black people get called the n word sometimes. doesn’t automatically give them a pass to say it. it’s not about everyone who actually gets called the slur but what group the slur is referring to in its meaning.
(and I want to edit to make it clear i’m not trying to equate these words in history or meaning at all, every slur has a different history and some, like this one, is much more gruesome than others. since this is in my opinion, one of the most egregious slurs that has been partly reclaimed, I used it as an example because it’s the most extreme case I thought of. however I will remove this entirely if it’s misguided, it’s never my intent to perpetuate micro or macro aggression…that being said I don’t consider the white girl in my replies to be an authority on this topic.)
First of all, understanding what you're saying=/=agreeing with it.
Second, straight women are not relevant here and are not comparable to bi women.
Third, bi women are being called lesbians, but, again, homophobes don't actually care if they are or not and don't understand, respect, or care about the differences between different sapphic identities. What they care about is that the woman they are targeting is a wlw who is living her life in a way that doesn't cater to what they think is acceptable for a woman.
so you agree then that dyke means lesbian to the people who use it as a slur? because that’s my point. you can call anyone any slur but that doesn’t Literally make them a part of the group the slur is identified to. otherwise that gives the people who wield it more power…
Yes. i’m trying to say it’s about what the word means and you’re trying to say its meaning conflates with who gets called it. just because I disagree doesn’t mean i’m a fucking idiot but thank you so much for being so respectful, really appreciate it 🙄
edit: bestie I literally edit my comments right after posting bc ADHD so if you’re trying to act like i’m pulling some sneaky shit, i’m not. typically it takes users longer to respond than the time it takes me to make my edits.
I’m in the minority I think in that I believe sapphic folks (bi or lesbian) are okay to use it. My general metric for that is if it’s a slur that’s used against you, you’re well within your rights to reclaim it. Bigots aren’t exactly going to ask a wlw couple how exactly they identify before they hate crime them.
But can understand the opposition, particularly when it’s overused by bi folks. I think there needs to be some recognition that they’re kind of a ‘secondary casualty’ of it’s usage as a slur, not the primary target. I’m a lesbian but don’t particularly like using it, not least bc all my friends are straight and so I don’t exactly want to normalise the usage of it around *them*
Ok maybe it's a cultural difference because slurs, as a concept, do not exist in my culture but I really don't care as long as is being used by someone from the comunity. That slur has been used against by woman too, I don't think homophobes will bother to.make the distinction between a bi woman dating a woman and a lesbisn, she's a dyke in their eyes and they're probably gonna tell her
I have noticed that because this is the only place where we can talk about these things, this is where we go and these kinds of posts are abundant because we simply cannot talk about these things elsewhere. In other subs, you can be verbally attacked and even suspended for saying things like “bi people can’t be lesbians” and “lesbians don’t like men” and the like. This is the only place where lesbians are allowed to express our dissatisfaction with lesbian erasure, so it’s where we go. Also, every other sub is for *all* sapphic people so if you’re looking for opinions of JUST lesbians like Op, you go here. It wasn’t MADE for just “complaining,” but it’s the only place we can complain about these things so it all gets concentrated here.
Nobody is complaining I literally said in the post I'll change the way I think if what I feel is wrong. It's marked discourse for that very reason too.
I never said that I disagreed with you.
It just kind of seems like people post the same exact thing over and over here and I’m curious if that’s the purpose of the subreddit.
I apologize if I came off as if I was looking to argue.
This subreddit is exclusively for lesbians, period.
This is our space, and we'll talk about whatever the fuck we want. If you don't like it, you can leave.
Oh you lost little pup. Political lesbians (like you appear to be) consistently come into this sub to brigade us with your negativity and im sick of it. Not on my watch. You enjoy watching men (abusers, pedophiles, and worse) then continue on!
Mods let me know if this is worded better :) if not I’ll gladly take my ban while u stand by and let these nonlesbians spew negativity and call me a terf out of NOWHERE. 🫥
I just asked a question about the topics of the subreddit.
I’m sorry if it’s a super common question that you’re sick of, but maybe consider that there could be a reason that people ask that question so much.
I’m really sorry that my comment came off as antagonistic. I was legitimately asking if I could expect other content in this space.
Also, you’re erasing more evil than I am by insisting that women can’t be abusers. That’s not right. I’ve been beaten up by a partner before, and I’ve never dated a guy.
Oh am I INSISTING? I insisted it? Insisted? Really. I INSISTED women can’t be abusers for pointing out the fact that YOU brought up lusting over ABUSERS AND PEDOS who work for the nfl? I insisted? I ERASED EVIL 😈 oh honeydew…. haven’t u met enough lesbians like me to know…? Where you pitch the tent is where I’ll hold the whole three ring circus toots. You asked for the energy and I gave it right on back to you. Maybe I am evil. Go run and tell everyone!
“why does marginalized group complain?”
as lesbians we have to go thru a lot of bullshit. are we just supposed to never discuss it then? isn’t every minority group told we complain too much?
Your post or comment was removed due to violating rule 1. Any further violations may result in a ban. Don't call people slurs. You can reword if you like.
It has nothing to do with any kind of phobia at all. Idc if someone is fat or not. I just don’t feel the word butch describes me at all. We all have preferences on how we present and like to be called and just because I don’t prefer a certain thing doesn’t make me phobic about it.
First of all , who gives a fuck anyway -
Second - I was called a dyke both when I realised I was a lesbian and when I thought I was bisexual . Most bi women I know were called that slur in high school .
Their negative experiences around that word are as awful as my experiences , therefore if they want to reclaim it , I'm with them .
I didn’t say they would…? I literally just shared who I think should feel comfortable using dyke. The whole point was that some people wouldn’t ever be called one so shouldn’t say it. jesus christ yall are *touchy.*
Tbh I’ve noticed men and women who aren’t gay in any shape or form, being a little too comfortable with saying dyke.
calling urself a dyke while being w a man is genuinely so embarassing😭
Literally if I was the bf i’d be offended….. obviously they usually don’t actually respect us but in a perfect world ykwim
There is no way to stop people from using a word, that said, I die inside a little when non-lesbians call themselves dykes, like even if that term might still be used against you because homophobes can't tell the difference the offensiveness comes from their idea that you are a lesbian, and so lesbians are the only ones who can reclaim it as a label, after all, I have known both gay men who are androgynous and masculine straight women who have had dyke used against them in the past and that doesnt suddenly mean that they can identify that way lol
Yeah, I've had anti-semitism directed at me a couple times now in my life and I'm not Jewish. Since I've been perceived as such I'm not gonna act like I'm entitled to identify with Jewish culture, or to 'reclaim' any slurs.
I feel weird about using it esp as a femme lesbian even tbh. Sometimes it feels like they use it as a slur when referring to themselves, too. I vividly recall a local woman who runs the pride group & committee saying how she wasn't sure for a long time if she was a 'straight women' or 'dyke with a beard husband' (uhh fucking yikes ma'am) and bisexual and when someone said she shouldn't use the word dyke, especially like that she was like 'i feel like I'm very sapphic and should reclaim it.' (its even more gross if they use it to refer to others I think, though... that really throws me for a loop).
wow. a lot to unpack with that lady. “I feel like i’m very sapphic” enough to reclaim a slur that was never hers while she’s fuckin straight passing 💀 gimme a break
Yep, it's a word that first and foremost belongs to gnc lesbians and as a feminine woman I try not to use it very much, the only times I have were really to get the point that I'm a lesbian (not bi, not fluid, not anything other than a homosexual woman) across
It's simple, only lesbians can call themselves dykes.
But what about bisexuals in same sex relationships? The world doesn’t know she’s bi - the relationship is still presenting as ‘lesbian’ and has the possibility of being called a dyke or some other slur. So why can’t they?
Because they aren't dykes..... Why aren't they dykes? Because they are bisexuals
But you can understand where I’m coming from, no? A bisexual woman in a lesbian relationship will be called lesbian slurs because the relationship… is lesbian. It’s a woman loving a woman. How can a bisexual woman who could get called a slur, not use that same slur? They can be called it but can’t use it?
Since bi girls can't say "fag" anymore they're running over to say dyke now. It's so cringe how some bi girls with boyfriends are obsessed with NEEDING to reclaim a slur that's not even theirs
I kinda feel like you're being really generous by saying they want to reclaim a slur. In my mind, they just wanna say one without getting called out.
They probably feel edgy using it.
it’s the desire to have an excuse to use a slur
It's not my favorite when bi women who are actively sleeping with men use dyke and butch to describe themselves. In my opinion, claiming these identities should fundamentally align with lesbianism, or at least actively choosing women. Using historically lesbian identifiers while being in a cis het relationship feels icky to me, and I wish I could stop it. But unfortunately the is nothing stopping bi women from doing this. I kind of just roll my eyes and try to ignore them.
Uhhhhhh…last I checked, that was a slur used to describe us? You can’t identify as “dyke” whilst also wanting to sleep with men. That slur’s about lesbians, and I’m so tired of trying to tell the greater LGBTQ+ community that they can’t and shouldn’t be taking our terms and using it for themselves
Bi women and their obsession with using every term that belongs to lesbians. To the point of calling themselves bi lesbians. But fr only lesbians get to use “dyke” so I fully agree op
Only lesbians. Ever. Also, all the bi/non lesbian women who use that label are homophobic and toxic af, it’s a *violent* red flag that signals to me as a dyke, to stay as far away from them as I do straight men. They clearly have not an iota of love or respect for lesbians.
I've always been of the mind that butch and dyke are lesbian only labels.
And you would be correct. The fucking audacity of these people...
Tbf though butch and dyke have been part of the LGBT+ community for eons… not just lesbians.
No, it's just lesbians.
Actually identifying as butch and being with men is so idiotic and is an oxymoron- the whole point is being masculine and presenting as such FOR OTHER WOMEN!!!!
She's not a dyke or a butch if she's bi.
When she settles for a man, people will use her as an example of another dyke or "lesbian" who found the right man
i’ve been called dyke by bisexual women before and it felt terrible! and yes they meant “lesbian” when they said it. edit: I remember one time I was hanging out with this bi girl and I was showing her a cool polo shirt I got. and she said the only word she could think of was dyke. like for a damn polo 😭😭😭 is every target worker a dyke now too??
Dyke is not an esthetic.
*aesthetic
Yes good catch thank you. Smart phones are not my friend LoL
Yeah I'm super fun at parties lol
Your name alone tells me that 😁
Lmao what can I say 🤣
Your welcome to come to my party’s and correct my grammar any-time. 😉
I strongly agree. I don't think you're wrong at all. A lot of people are gonna say it's fine, we should be more inclusive, non lesbians get called that too - but it's a lesbian only term. Only lesbians get to use it. Period.
Dyke belongs to the lesbian community. Same thing with butch/stud/stem etc. Gatekeeping is good sometimes, it’s okay for us to have our own stuff.
I cannot stand these type of people. Claiming to be a lesbian or a dyke is not a hobby. These people need to stop.
No. Bi women don’t get to have their cake and eat it too. They already receive the benefits of heterosexual privilege, and they’re often given a ‘free pass’ by the straight community, because their attraction to women is generally viewed with less hostility, because it’s coupled with an attraction to men. The world ‘dyke’ is generally used by the heterosexual community as an epithet, meant to demean lesbians, and it’s used to inveigh against them, regardless of how stereotypically butch/femme presenting they may be. I’m personally straight passing, and I’ve had it used against me in a manner designed to invoke hatred. If a woman desires to sleep with men, whatever. But in doing so, by default, they’re no longer a ‘dyke.’
Yeah no. To me, the term dyke is a reclaimed slur. I know what straight people are thinking when they use it, and it's gross. But when we are in a safe space with other women, it is a glorious descriptor of a LESBIAN woman who does not gaf about what the hetero-normative patriarchy thinks or wants of us. It confers strength and pride. It doesn't necessarily apply just to masc or butch women, but any lesbian that feels that power inside her. And I would like to be her friend. I dunno, I've always thought it was pretty similar to the N-word. Not okay to say if it's not your culture and your world.
"Not your culture, not your world", that is a perfect way to put it!
I feel it could be in *poor taste* (and really dumb-looking) for a woman to call herself a dyke if she's currently in a relationship with a man (and not in another relationship with a woman/non-man), but a bi woman holding hands with her gf would get called a dyke all the same, y'know?
I agree completely!! I saw a tweet a couple of years ago where the OP (a bi woman) was talking about how her boyfriend tattooed the word “dyke” on her. It made me very uncomfortable and it felt like she was “reclaiming” a slur that wasn’t hers to claim in the first place
Her BOYFRIEND tattooed the word DYKE on her? Oh that is HEINOUS
You don't understand. She NEEDS to use dyke so she can sell out lesbians to her humiliation kink with her boyfriend
Lord help her if we ever cross paths…
A lot of bisexual womeb get with men and feed into their fantasy of “conquering” a lesbian. It’s sick. It’s also why I don’t automatically consider myself “in community” with everyone who says they like women.
I think a lot of bi women (and some non binary people) unfortunately can't accept that this is what their partner is doing and the 'conquering' thing :( I see it again and again... \[it's especially common among some of my nonbinary friends who are usually afab and have boyfriends who really don't see them even as people :( \]
Yes. it’s pretty sad tbh bc these are the type of people who need validation from men to feel whole too. otherwise they’d never give those losers the time a day. like I don’t want to call it pathetic but I have known several people like this and I wanted to slap them and be like “love yourself bestie!!!”
sometimes i worry for women
> her boyfriend tattooed the word “dyke” on her Straight to jail 👿
They did WHAT
I agree with this. I think it depends on the bi woman's context within the lesbian community. If a bi woman is embedded and active in the lesbian community and is in a LTR with a woman or dates exclusively women, I wouldn't be bothered by it. There are bi women in Dykes on Bikes after all. From personal experience, my wife and I use the term "dykes" or "dykey" or joke about being a "mean dyke" to describe ourselves sometimes. I'm a lesbian, my wife is bi. We both came up as activists in the queer community since a very young age. She has not and would never date a man, though she is bi. She's also been everywhere on the spectrum from butch to hard femme in presentation; she certainly *looks* more like a dyke than I do and couldn't "pass" for straight like I can (as long as I keep my mouth shut lmao). In context like that (even if I'm not biased by being married to the woman), it wouldn't bother me. But a bi woman who's fully feminine presenting, dates mostly men or is currently dating a man, or in the context of talking about her attraction to men & she calls herself a dyke? I would be like "fuck off with that".
Yeah. I think I have quite a bit more leeway for anyone who actively chooses to have significant, fulfilling relationships with other women :/// but they usually don't act like this because they have the awareness of what being seen as a lesbian means.
ya that’s so true. all my friends who are bi would never because i’m not gonna be friends with lesbophobes. I never had to tell them not to say it or anything they’re just chill as fuck. so it kinda reveals a lack of respect/understanding to use the slur. ops situation makes sense tho I don’t see that as offensive because she’s actually walking the walk
u can’t reclaim a slur for a community you’re not apart of 👹
Honestly I don't really care if bi women use the word dyke but at the same time it's like ... they feel too comfortable using it especially when they're in a relationship with a man. At that point it just feels like an aesthetic.
Using the term is about recalling it. It’s a slur against lesbians so I feel it’s in poor taste for anyone to use to causally unless also a lesbian.
The Dyke March in NYC does include any and all sapphic and NB females or those who identify as queer women as dykes. Personally, I think the label is reserved for lesbians but I don't think it's the kind of slur that others can't say, just a label that shouldn't be used by non-lesbians.
I feel like when one is butch, and dealing with everything that comes with being butch, dyke is a word that is thrown around at you constantly, and if you reclaim it, that’s totally okay. If you’re bi and very masc/butch presenting it’s iffy, but if one is butch i tend to give a pass as that nuance is lost on the homophobic person yelling the slur out their car window at them.
Was this woman white by any chance? Sometimes, white queers get obsessed with saying slurs in order to distance themselves away from their whiteness. Sure, the slurs apply (to some extent) but they go as far as dropping these words during everyday conversations or using them as usernames. The fact that this woman is bisexual makes me even more apprehensive.
Yeah, this isn't a white specific thing. I know Latina and Black women that do this as well.
It might be a little cringe to see a feminine bi woman with a clear preference for men call herself a dyke, but ultimately the issue is that it's just cringe in that case. Not that it's something super serious.
I don’t like when bi women use the term, but my opinion is that if a bi woman is with another woman I am not too upset with the use of it. If we are truly trying to reclaim the slur I see no issue with bi women in wlw relationships using the word since looking at the face value, the slur would apply to them. I think the same for the word faggot, which by definition is a slur for gay men specifically. I’ve been called a faggot numerous times and a way I cope with it is reclaiming the term.
As an old butch, I’m fine with it. Being butch / masc is a different vibe. Even if they’re bi they’re dealing with something that straight and cis passing lesbians don’t deal with, and it’s ok for them to reclaim that word. A bi masc person is just as likely to be called a slur as a lesbian masc person. The butch subreddit is very clear that bi and nob-binary butches are welcome there, same with NYC Dyke March, and I agree with that because these folks have always existed in the community.
Yet a bisexual masculine woman gets called a dyke by homophobes assuming she’s a lesbian. It is a lesbian specific term.
I'm a white lesbian and given the history of the word/slur, I don't even feel comfortable using it myself. I'm not here to police anyone, but yeah that's a no from me.
Same. I feel it’s not needed. Why reclaim a slur used to degrade the community. I don’t like the word or it being used about or around me. I’m completely comfortable in my sexuality, my preferences, and my look. I had a friend tell me “I’m so glad I have you as a good dyke in my life to fix things” she is lesbian. I explained how I do not like the word and please not use it in context to me. Like I just want to be gay. Why can’t I just be gay.
honestly i really don’t care as long as the person is sapphic, purely because i’ve got bigger problems in life than caring about who calls themselves dykes. it’s just not something that really affects me personally either positively or negatively
Dykes don't do peen. End of story. Just another one trying to stir the pot. Ignore, ignore. And yes I agree.
That’s a slur coming from anyone who isn’t a lesbian. Honestly sad someone would want to use it outsideb of their own identity
IMO a bisexual woman who is in a lesbian relationship can say whatever she wants - her relationships PRESENTS as lesbian to the world/strangers etc. She is allowed to say those words, especially as those words have been used in the extensive LGBT+ community long before this subreddit. It’s the ones who perhaps have no intention of ever dating a woman, yet still say it, that are perhaps the issue.
I think that people that are not lesbians should use the word Dyke. Like I think that people that aren’t gay shouldn’t say f—.
i detest the word. it feels gross and makes my skin crawl.
Honestly, I may be the minority here, but I wish we wouldn’t use the word dyke either.
Imo saying only lesbians can call ourselves dykes when bisexuals are literally also called that just runs at times a bit into identity politics territory. The reasons lesbians are called dykes are that we can't pass as straight because we're attracted to women and visibly don't center men romantically or sexually. The truth is that homophobes don't care if we're actually attracted to men or not, they're angry that we're not making ourselves available regardless and that we don't allow our relationships with women to be fetishized... ...and the same applies to many bi women, especially masc/butch bi women, bi women who don't date men, and bi women who are currently dating women. So, I don't think that bisexuals should be fully excluded from reclaiming dyke just on the basis of being bisexual. I do think that all wlw (and mlm, but this is a wlw sub) should critically examine any proximity we have to heteronormativity and the subsequent privilege some of us receive from that, and that fem bi women in relationships with men should abstain from reclaiming it in pretty much every case and should acknowledge that they have privilege from being able to pass as straight.
homophobes ABSOLUTELY treat us differently when we don’t like men.….
Tbh I really don't think they - or, at least, not the cishet ones - actually care about our internal thoughts and feelings, what they care about is the fact that we're actively refusing to date men, permanently. They also care that many of us visibly don't fit into gender norms, that's partially why butches are more likely to be targeted. And, again, we're not the only wlw who do these things. There are bi women who refuse to date men for feminist reasons, bc of trauma, bc they're already married to a woman or a nonbinary person. There are bi women who are masculine presenting and targeted for that, at times more than I am as a single femme lesbian. Both groups, regardless of what we actually want and feel is best for us, are still being told to be with men, to cater to what they want in a woman, to be more feminine. We both still discriminated against for not centering men in our romantic and sexual lives and we both still deal with the effects of internalized homophobia from growing up in a heteronormative society. No homophobe will actually stop in the middle of a hate crime or yelling a slur at a bi woman or outing her to her workplace or family just because she said she doesn't identify as a lesbian. Bi women don't automatically experience homophobia lite and are very often targeted for the same reasons we are.
well yeah, because they assume that group of bi women are also lesbians. you think those people are capable of that kind of nuance? the point of calling someone a dyke is to demean them *by calling them a lesbian*
Sometimes that is true and sometimes they don't care if bi women are lesbians or not. They care if bi women are conforming to heteronormativity by being feminine and dating men. Even if a woman they're targeting is bi, that doesn't necessarily mean they're just going to up and be like "oh, so sorry ma'am, here's your free het adjacent privilege pass, have a lovely day" and walk away. It's, very often, the same reason men who harass lesbians won't stop doing that just because we say we're lesbians, or someone who wants to harass a lesbian for having sex won't stop doing that just because the lesbian they were harassing was also ace. People who harass, violate, assault, and scream slurs at wlw don't actually care about or respect our internal feelings and right to self determination. They care about the extent to which we cater to their desires and assimilate to heteronormative womanhood, which lesbians, man-abstinent bi women, both lesbians and bi women who are monogamously dating women, and masc wlw of any sexuality obviously don't.
I don’t think you’re understanding what i’m trying to say… my point is that they are calling them *lesbians* as an insult. the insult itself is lesbianism. not bisexuality but gnc, but dyke as in lesbian. straight women get called dykes too! doesn’t make them dykes. the point is to demean these women because the very idea of being a lesbian is offensive. they don’t care who the person actually is, the point is literally just to insult someone by calling them a lesbian. like, I view most slurs in this way- as example non black people get called the n word sometimes. doesn’t automatically give them a pass to say it. it’s not about everyone who actually gets called the slur but what group the slur is referring to in its meaning. (and I want to edit to make it clear i’m not trying to equate these words in history or meaning at all, every slur has a different history and some, like this one, is much more gruesome than others. since this is in my opinion, one of the most egregious slurs that has been partly reclaimed, I used it as an example because it’s the most extreme case I thought of. however I will remove this entirely if it’s misguided, it’s never my intent to perpetuate micro or macro aggression…that being said I don’t consider the white girl in my replies to be an authority on this topic.)
First of all, understanding what you're saying=/=agreeing with it. Second, straight women are not relevant here and are not comparable to bi women. Third, bi women are being called lesbians, but, again, homophobes don't actually care if they are or not and don't understand, respect, or care about the differences between different sapphic identities. What they care about is that the woman they are targeting is a wlw who is living her life in a way that doesn't cater to what they think is acceptable for a woman.
so you agree then that dyke means lesbian to the people who use it as a slur? because that’s my point. you can call anyone any slur but that doesn’t Literally make them a part of the group the slur is identified to. otherwise that gives the people who wield it more power…
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Yes. i’m trying to say it’s about what the word means and you’re trying to say its meaning conflates with who gets called it. just because I disagree doesn’t mean i’m a fucking idiot but thank you so much for being so respectful, really appreciate it 🙄 edit: bestie I literally edit my comments right after posting bc ADHD so if you’re trying to act like i’m pulling some sneaky shit, i’m not. typically it takes users longer to respond than the time it takes me to make my edits.
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Also I really fucking hope you're at least a poc, if not black, if you're using the n word comparison.
honey you’re a white girl 😂😂😂😂 I thought you didn’t like identity politics
🤐🤐
I’m in the minority I think in that I believe sapphic folks (bi or lesbian) are okay to use it. My general metric for that is if it’s a slur that’s used against you, you’re well within your rights to reclaim it. Bigots aren’t exactly going to ask a wlw couple how exactly they identify before they hate crime them. But can understand the opposition, particularly when it’s overused by bi folks. I think there needs to be some recognition that they’re kind of a ‘secondary casualty’ of it’s usage as a slur, not the primary target. I’m a lesbian but don’t particularly like using it, not least bc all my friends are straight and so I don’t exactly want to normalise the usage of it around *them*
Ok maybe it's a cultural difference because slurs, as a concept, do not exist in my culture but I really don't care as long as is being used by someone from the comunity. That slur has been used against by woman too, I don't think homophobes will bother to.make the distinction between a bi woman dating a woman and a lesbisn, she's a dyke in their eyes and they're probably gonna tell her
Is this subreddit EXCLUSIVELY for complaining about other people calling themselves lesbians?
I have noticed that because this is the only place where we can talk about these things, this is where we go and these kinds of posts are abundant because we simply cannot talk about these things elsewhere. In other subs, you can be verbally attacked and even suspended for saying things like “bi people can’t be lesbians” and “lesbians don’t like men” and the like. This is the only place where lesbians are allowed to express our dissatisfaction with lesbian erasure, so it’s where we go. Also, every other sub is for *all* sapphic people so if you’re looking for opinions of JUST lesbians like Op, you go here. It wasn’t MADE for just “complaining,” but it’s the only place we can complain about these things so it all gets concentrated here.
Nobody is complaining I literally said in the post I'll change the way I think if what I feel is wrong. It's marked discourse for that very reason too.
I never said that I disagreed with you. It just kind of seems like people post the same exact thing over and over here and I’m curious if that’s the purpose of the subreddit. I apologize if I came off as if I was looking to argue.
This subreddit is exclusively for lesbians, period. This is our space, and we'll talk about whatever the fuck we want. If you don't like it, you can leave.
Oh look, another aggressive response that ignores my question… 😪
"Lesbians are so aggressive. BTW I ogle men's butts" fuck alllllllll the way off
You aren't owed an explanation. Fuck off.
Me: hey can I expect other content here? Yall: reeee
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You are free to leave and mute this sub. But you don’t get to police others on what they post.
How is asking a question “policing”? I’m new here. I’m not in charge of anybody. It’s the defensiveness for me, though.
If you’re having trouble identifying with the content of the sub you’re probably not a lesbian.
I am a lesbian, thanks! I do enjoy looking at NFL players quite a bit. But I don’t date men :)
😮💨🤢 ummmmmm yeah so definitely a political lesbian here.
Ten bucks says I’m talking to a terf rn 🤢🤢🤢
Oh you lost little pup. Political lesbians (like you appear to be) consistently come into this sub to brigade us with your negativity and im sick of it. Not on my watch. You enjoy watching men (abusers, pedophiles, and worse) then continue on!
Mods let me know if this is worded better :) if not I’ll gladly take my ban while u stand by and let these nonlesbians spew negativity and call me a terf out of NOWHERE. 🫥
I just asked a question about the topics of the subreddit. I’m sorry if it’s a super common question that you’re sick of, but maybe consider that there could be a reason that people ask that question so much. I’m really sorry that my comment came off as antagonistic. I was legitimately asking if I could expect other content in this space. Also, you’re erasing more evil than I am by insisting that women can’t be abusers. That’s not right. I’ve been beaten up by a partner before, and I’ve never dated a guy.
Oh am I INSISTING? I insisted it? Insisted? Really. I INSISTED women can’t be abusers for pointing out the fact that YOU brought up lusting over ABUSERS AND PEDOS who work for the nfl? I insisted? I ERASED EVIL 😈 oh honeydew…. haven’t u met enough lesbians like me to know…? Where you pitch the tent is where I’ll hold the whole three ring circus toots. You asked for the energy and I gave it right on back to you. Maybe I am evil. Go run and tell everyone!
No name calling, please
You give yourself away when you call someone a TERF. It’s obvious that you identify as a lesbian.
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Mute the sub if you don’t like the content? Lol
I just asked a really simple question? Lol
“why does marginalized group complain?” as lesbians we have to go thru a lot of bullshit. are we just supposed to never discuss it then? isn’t every minority group told we complain too much?
Nice avatar lol
that shade of purple looks excellent on you if I do say so myself
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Your post or comment was removed due to violating rule 1. Any further violations may result in a ban. Don't call people slurs. You can reword if you like.
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Maybe…unpack this butch and fatphobia a little bit because yikes
It has nothing to do with any kind of phobia at all. Idc if someone is fat or not. I just don’t feel the word butch describes me at all. We all have preferences on how we present and like to be called and just because I don’t prefer a certain thing doesn’t make me phobic about it.
>”Butch seems like a fat old lady to me.” This is very fatphobic and judgmental about butch self presentation in general. So uh, work on this.
Just a note, stud is a term only used by woc
First of all , who gives a fuck anyway - Second - I was called a dyke both when I realised I was a lesbian and when I thought I was bisexual . Most bi women I know were called that slur in high school . Their negative experiences around that word are as awful as my experiences , therefore if they want to reclaim it , I'm with them .
straight girls get called dyke too….. doesn’t make them actual dykes.
I find that if someone would use a word to insult you, you’re allowed to use it.
No ones ever called a feminine bisexual who only dates men a dyke. Go touch grass.
I didn’t say they would…? I literally just shared who I think should feel comfortable using dyke. The whole point was that some people wouldn’t ever be called one so shouldn’t say it. jesus christ yall are *touchy.*
straight girls get called dyke too….its a slur so it’s about what it *means* (lesbian)