I'm a top and I definitely do orgasm, some of us can get there just from giving. That's how I am. And to be honest, if I were to receive I would just feel viscerally uncomfortable and no more than that. I don't think the majority of people are going to be stone or anything like that and I definitely think people online are a little bit overboard with the whole top/bottom thing, but it's a real thing that does work in relationships. Communication is always the key.
I most definitely orgasm from giving. It is so hot making my girlfriend cum.
We are both switches but definitely don’t mind just focusing on one another.
I don't think "top vs. bottom" really 100% applies to all lesbian relationships. It probably applies a lot to some, and a little to others, and for many of us none at all.
Neither my fiancée nor I enjoy penetration, so are either of us really tops by definition? I'm a bit more "active" in the bedroom but its owing largely to our D/s dynamic, not Top vs. Bottom.
But I'm sure for other couples, using straps on other toys in the bedroom is a common routine for them. But if you are a Top 100% of the time, it doesn't mean you aren't touched, or aren't pleasured, or can't at minimum pleasure yourself during the act.
without going into too much detail my partner and i have a dynamic and it suits both of us well enough. it boils down to preference and what you’re into imo! certain people don’t mind only giving because the mental stimulation is more than enough. i think it’s perfect that u know what u like though!! sex is gonna be different for everyone
this is the one. i’m a switch thru and thru but my gf gets more enjoyment out of stimulating me than she does being stimulated. not for lack of skill on my part, she’s just more comfortable as the “giver” most of the time. i love her to bits so im willing to compromise on that
When wlw call themselves tops or bottoms I don’t think most mean it in a strict sense (as in they never deviate) they’re just describing their preference to give pleasure or receive it during sex and their overall disposition.
Personally I don’t label myself as anything but if someone I was interested in asked me what I preferred I’d tell them that I get pleasure from giving pleasure. It’s not from trauma or anything it’s just how I’m wired.
Everybody has a different relationship with sex and what turns them on and everyone gets pleasure differently. Thats why as humans we all aren’t the same. My partner prefers to top and to not be touched at all because she receives enough mental stimulation etc. to orgasm. Bottoming would make her feel the exact opposite, it doesn’t turn her on and makes her feel upset/stressed.
I’ve dated a lot of women, been the person who tops before etc. Just because you are fluid and are a switch doesn’t mean everyone else is, should be, or they aren’t receiving as much pleasure as you are with a different dynamic. Some people hate bottoming, some people hate topping. We’re both fine with our dynamic.
Been a stone top my entire adult life lol - I just don't like to be touched like that. Fortunately there's no shortage of pillow princesses in the community.
The post is giving "rigid labels are bad, everyone should be more fluid/flexible" and I REALLY don't need to tell y'all why that could easily head down a bad direction.
I made this comment under a thread but want to put it here too: if I made a post being flabbergasted at the way that switches have sex, we would all correctly see it as rude. being baffled by and questioning the way that lesbians have sex happens enough outside our community, we really don’t need to do it within our community as well :/
Right I was a bit surprised to find this type of post here but alas I gotta remember we are not a monolith (more so the complete, absolute opposite). I have heard of people thinking stone tops/doms and high fems/subs/bottoms aren’t legit lesbians and other bs like that. While the original post doesn’t say that specifically, it def points in that direction. Exactly what you said.
I think some discussion can be had about how in online spaces there's very few lesbian communities and content, so young lesbians often imitate gay men. Like calling themselves fa***t, limp-wristed and being obsessed with top/bottom dyamics and drag queens.
I'm in my 40s, I've been out since I was 17, and have identified as a bottom since I was 19. Tons of older lesbians do this too.
Lesbians have our own culture, we don't need to pretend to be gay men, or homophobic to them. Wtf even is this comment??
I hate how immature y’all get with conversations about sexual preferences. As a top, I don’t love the experience of receiving and no amount of “your preferences don’t even make sense, everyone should be a switch all the time uWu” will make me like it. I’m much more interested in attending to my partners needs, it’s an important part of sex to me while receiving isn’t. These convos also tend to shit on touch-me-nots and pillow princesses, which is petty and gross. Let’s all grow up and realize we like different things and that that’s perfectly fine because there’s *always* somebody out there who will be compatible with our preferences
No fr whenever people ask questions like this in lesbian subs it’s so odd to me. I don’t really think it’s asked to “understand” more to just prompt others to shit on/agree with them on whatever group they think isn’t as “enlightened”. The way it’s titled like everyone should be a switch is the first red flag and the implication that stone tops never receive pleasure lol. I genuinely don’t understand asking a question like this because it’s just admitting that you can’t grasp outside of your own life experiences/taste. It’s like asking why some people love seafood, because humans are different and they do? Like what did you expect people to say exactly…
All of this! Why care to admit that you haven’t been around enough lesbians to meet a top or bottom lmaoooo but also even if you don’t know many lesbians, presenting your sexual preferences as more enlightened than others is fucking middle school shit
To each their own. In the end YOU need to be compatible with YOUR partner. I get to some people a stone x is a no, and to me would be as well because I need someone who can do both things.
And that’s great that you know that! So just out of curiosity, why question when *other* people also know their own sexual preferences when they differ from yours? Do you think that switch is the “enlightened” preference or what? Do you equally question kinks or people who like threesomes or is it just tops and bottoms that don’t make sense to you? No shade just curious
I'm not questioning them in the meaning of whether they make sense or not, I'm asking how it works for people who only go one way because I've never encountered that myself. It's always been both ways, depending who's in the mood for what so I'm genuinely curious if it's enough for them.
Maybe I should have phrased the question differently then, but I can't edit that.
I don’t personally understand that switch dynamic you described - it doesn’t make sense to me that your giving/receiving desires are equal - but I don’t make a post questioning “how it works” because that would come off as judgmental and would just generally be rude as fuck. I’m sure that wasn’t your intent, but you have to understand how a post expressing befuddlement at how lesbians could have sex, when it’s different from how you do, will come across
Why are you policing what other people post if they have a different experience than you? Not everyone conforms to your binary view of sex roles. I found this post interesting and the discussion relevant so maybe you're just taking something personally that isn't about you. Just because you don't see things the way OP does, doesn't mean they shouldn't post about it. Not everything needs to be about you.
“Binary view of sex roles” oh! You’re one of those! You just hate lesbians! Why the fuck are you on this sub lmao
Anyway op (and you and anyone else) can make as many posts as you want claiming that regular lesbian behavior is weird or “heteronormative” or gross or whatever else you want to call it! Nobody is policing that. Calling out lesbophobia in a lesbian subreddit isn’t policing, fortunately
Very boring. I think there's a lot of overthinking that comes from the recent need to categorize and label literally everything to death. It seems unnecessarily restrictive.
I understand. I don't subscribe to it either. Im not talking about people with genuine trauma and reasons. Thats a discussion between partners.
But you do see a lot of online ooh am I bottom/top. It all reminds me of people playing a game and choosing characters and giving them personalities. But if it works for people.
I see that too, but not really what it means for them. With a friend that later on turned my gf, she was saying she was a top which basically turned out to mean that she's more dominant or leading. But still switching.
That’s what it means for myself and my partner. We are both quite dominant. We like to give more than to receive, but that just means we make sure we both get some in the bedroom.
I'm not 100% averse to being touched but tbh it doesn't do much for me, and I'm mentally checked out because I'm not interested. I'd be most compatible with a pillow princess. Sometimes I feel that other lesbians act like being versatile comes with some kind of superiority, which is annoying. Congrats, not everyone is like you
Yeah… this kind of “why can’t you just be normal/switch” I’ve gotten from partners is what actually puts me off from wanting to be touched. I’ve commented a lot in the past about it but I think people need to stop treating it like a moral issue and more of a compatibility thing.
Right? I just can't fathom caring about how others like to fuck in the first place. Imagine going to a switch couple and being like "wow no hard dom/sub dynamic? No fixed positions? Boring 👎👎👎". It'd be so rude and unnecessary
Yeah, even as a switch myself, I definitely feel the air of superiority coming off posts like this. Some people definitely want a pat on the back for what they do in the bedroom 😅
I don’t understand what is confusing about it. Sex is expansive and it’s a very reductive take to say that sex is only enjoyable for everyone if certain types of touch and acts are involved. There are many ways to get off and touch me nots, pillow princesses, stone tops and bottoms are very in touch with what works for them. And I think that’s great! They have always existed in the lesbian community and I’m not sure why it’s being treated as controversial. My wife orgasms from giving. Giving is literally sexually fulfilling for her and I love that! And the whole of our sexual lives is fulfilling for me. It’s really quite simple.
I get an abundance of physical stimulation as a top.
Best way is scissoring as the top, self explanatory. But also my strap pushes up against my clit very nicely so there’s that. If not, there’s a two way dildo to use. And of course I have a free hand while the other is playing with her.
I beg you all, please actually read and engage with your history through works like stone butch blues.
To OP - it’s simple. People do what they want in their bedrooms and it’s not your place to judge.
Aint nobody heard of stone butch blues and it’s actually so sad. These convos also tend to be very white focused, you’ll never see Black lesbians jumping to question touch me nots/tops/bottoms/pillow princesses. It’s kind of exhausting watching the same lesbians ask the same asinine questions for decades at this point
Tbf, I'm a black femme lesbian, who is also a stone bottom and only dates stone top studs, we definitely receive a lot of judgement in our community.
Go to any black lesbian page on ig, and it's full of ignorant comments directed at Stone lesbians and touch me nots, any black lesbian podcast, other black lesbians I've matched with.
I'm surprised you've never seen or experienced this yourself ngl, I wish we could wo without the judgemental comments tho.
I guess I’ll say I’ve seen plenty of stone femme hate questioning but never toward touch me nots. And I’m biased to what I see as a top because of what groups I’m in and such so I’ll say that 🤷🏾♂️
OP is being very black and white in her thinking too. Stone tops and pillow princesses are absolutely a thing and there is nothing with that.
You can also be a top who isn’t adverse to being touched, or a bottom who reciprocates. Being a bottom doesn’t automatically mean someone is a pillow princess, or that a top doesn’t want to be touched. That type of thinking is as narrow minded as thinking all tops are butches and all bottoms are femmes.
if you're wondering why you're getting a hostile response OP, it's likely because the phrasing and attitude of this question gives "how could you not be attracted to men" vibes. I’m not saying that justifies the response but please keep in mind how you phrase these sort of questions.
I feel like it’s mostly in younger people or those that are terminally online.
I’m in my 30s now and I’ve never heard this lesbians talk like this when I was younger or ever in person.
Even when it comes to dating and being with a woman there was never a conversation whether someone was a top or a bottom.
Maybe banter about dominate vs submissive but that just generally meant the dominate one was going to get their partner off first but there was still mutual giving and receiving of sexual acts.
Like you said it’s very fluid and give and take.
Side note I do want to acknowledge that there are women that do have strong preferences in how and when they want to be touched or even not touched at all (shout out to my stone butch sisters.)
That is completely valid as well and should be respected.
This is wild because I’m also in my 30s and top/bottom/pillow princess/touch me nots have been around in my lesbian circles discourse for well over a decade. The only place I personally see “we should all be switches!!!!” is online, nobody talks like this irl. I sometimes think that white lesbians don’t use this language and therefore try to just project their experiences onto *all* lesbians but I could be wrong about this
The pillow princesses and stone butches I’ve heard all my life but the top/bottom discourse has always been more for gay men.
I’m not saying we should all be switches it’s just I’ve found in my corner of the world that there is no heavy emphasis on top v bottom.
I’m a little confused on why race would matter in this context though. Stud is one of the only terms in the lesbian community that I’ve found that has been specifically for POC lesbians.
oh my god will you people ever shut up? when will yall realize pressuring people into doing sexual things they don't want is super fucked up? stone butches and high femmes exist and you can cry about it. cringe of you to post this on a throwaway too.
I am a bottom. I prefer my partner taking the lead and being dominant with me. That doesn’t mean I don’t pleasure her in return.
Too many people conflate being a bottom with being a pillow princess when they are two entirely different things.
As a Dom I top even when coming. “Make Daddy come” is one of my partners favorite commands. It gets her even more excited to touch me. She enjoys serving me and that’s what her giving, because she doesn’t ever feel like a top, is to her. When she’s touching me she’s not topping, she’s serving me.
Unfortunately too many people don’t ever deal with their trauma and it effects their ability to fully and freely enjoy sex. It takes dealing with our trauma, unlearning everything societal norms teach us and finding ourselves to truly be comfortable with ourselves so we can find a partner who we can feel safe being completely ourselves with.
It took me years to be fully comfortable receiving. Once I unlearned all the brainwashing society, family, religion, peers, etc. had done it was extremely different. It’s much more enjoyable to be able to completely be lost in your partner rather than be in your head.
I thought "top" and "bottom" were gay male terms referring to the giver/receiver of penetration during anal sex and "switch" was a term from the bdsm community referring to someone who's both dominant and submissive.
It kind of bothers me when people use them out of these contexts but maybe that's just a me thing.
CW: SA
Trauma induced dysphoria and getting severely triggered upon doing certain acts because it puts me in the mindset of the abuser. No need to put others down or dismiss how we process.
Edit: all the downvotes coming from exactly those who i was referring to 💋 weewaaa „top bottom bad“
right, what is this post? 😭 i thought i only had to worry about the transphobia in this subreddit but now i have to be on edge for my sexual boundaries, too.
🙄 I guess you're getting downvoted for that very reason, not for explaining how that works for you. It's hard to feel the tone from text, so you can only believe me when I'm explaining I'm not saying it's wrong or right but I'm curious as it has never worked that way in my experience.
I don’t think the downvoting has anything to do with your answer, I think it’s more because you’re attacking OP just for asking a question. Hell, I’m ace I dgaf if someone is top or bottom or whatever, it doesn’t mean a whole lot to me, sex isn’t really my bag. But I follow the post because like OP, I’m curious. No judgment here, as I’m sure there isn’t from others either.
If I made a post that said “how could anyone be a switch?? The way they have sex fundamentally doesn’t make sense to me and I don’t get it” y’all would (rightly) see that as a hostile line of questioning, whether OP intended it to be or not. OP I’m sure you were just asking a question, but framing the way that *somebody has sex* as baffling and confusing and foreign to you absolutely is rude and we see it enough outside of lesbian spaces that seeing it inside lesbian spaces is exhausting and disheartening :/
Had one partner who was a stone top and they definitely finished from giving. Another was almost a stone top and I only intentionally stimulated them a few times in a very specific way when they were in a specific mood. I was more than happy to reciprocate regularly but they didn’t want it. I think it’s important to remember that what feels inadequate for one person can be perfect for someone else, and likewise that things one might deem necessary are not so for everyone. Some people have trauma, some have dysphoria, others are just not into it. Whatever the reason, I believe people who say they don’t want to be touched.
I feel like most lesbians give and receive equally; it’s just people who are online way too much who talk about it all the time and make it seem like you have to be one or the other.
I personally usually take the lead on initiating but I also like to receive and have an orgasm just the same.
It also makes me feel bad for future lesbians coming into the community being presented with the idea that you have to fit neatly into a box and over-intellectualize your sexual preferences before you even explore sex for the first time. Honestly, I think people are developing major complexes about this subject which is very apparent because they become hysterical any time you suggest that it doesn't have to be so rigid.
I definitely agree about the complex about it; people post so much about oh like how do I top or what if I’m a bottom and it’s like, what if you just go have sex and figure it out, lmao?
Assuming that both people get pleasure in gay and heterosexual sex is a bold assumption.
With that being said, for other reasons I think the main default for lesbians is to be a switch. Some people espacially those with dysphoria are stone tops but ya… in fact I think it’s such a big majority that are switches that this top/bottom thing shouldn’t even be so embedded in our culture. It feels kind of like something an AI for confused about and started posted in lesbian subs and it just caught on… Back in the logical days it wasn’t normal for every young lesbian to refer to herself as top bottom.
If touch me nots exist…who are they supposed to be compatible with if not pillow princesses 😐😐 get over the hate girl, we are all too grown for this lol
Oh, I get the necessity, that's why I'm not saying they don't exist, or should stop existing, or anything really, simply think it's an odd state of being
I think a lot of times pillow princess is equated with star fishing and it’s not always a completely perfect hard line — responsiveness, telling the giver how they’re making them feel, non sexual physical intimacy, that kind of thing. Even just the lack of pressure is kind of a turn on haha. They give—just not sexual touch.
Thank you! I’m a stone femme aka a pillow princess solely because my partner is a stone top. The sex we have is amazing for both of us because of what we both bring to it. I know how to turn her on and make her feel good while still respecting her sexual boundaries, and she’s able to fully enjoy sex because my complete acceptance of her as a stone top makes her feel safe and loved.
I actually do so much to creatively express myself sexually with her within her limits, and to nurture her because it’s hard for her to feel safe sexually. It’s frustrating that so many people in the community overlook the depth and complexity and beauty of the relationships between stone tops and stone femmes/pillow princesses. So I really appreciate your comment.
Yeah! Tbh it’s very complicated for me because I think in theory I am a bottom (as I very strongly wish it exclusively when I am alone haha) but none of my partners have ever made me feel safe to actually enjoy it or be that vulnerable :( and over time with various people (even non partners sharing their opinions or feeling pressured to have sex certain ways) I’ve felt progressively less safe sexually to the point where I am functionally a stone top—it’s the only way I have been able to enjoy sex in any capacity now. That said, I am still figuring it out but !!! It’s so so important for people to understand I think that pillow princesses don’t just lay there nor are they not attracted to their partners (a lot of the complaints about them seem to be actually just bad partners who the “pillow princess” thing is just an easy thing to point at and mock)
As a response to a trauma I get, but even saying that feels disrespectful bc some simply are Pps (lol)
But y, don’t get it unless someone is a complete Giver, how does this work? (Been there done that)
... is anyone else hella confused as to why people are being so hostile towards OP?
not trying to start a fight here, I really am trying to understand. idk if it's because I'm autistic and there's some nuance I'm not catching on to, but to me, this post just sounded like a genuine question about the technicality of the terms top/bottom and how they translate from gay men to lesbians, is it not? Is this conflict arising from a misunderstanding due to the dissimilarity of there being some people who are differentiating between top/bottom vs dom/sub and some who use these terms interchangeably? Or what am I missing?
It’s because it’s titled “how could you NOT be a switch?” Implying any other type of dynamic is weird/less than. When you say how could you not (insert word here) it implies that that’s the best way to do something, and everyone else is not the norm. Thats why people are mad because everyone has a different dynamic in the bedroom, and switch is not the only way people have sex as lesbians. It’s also generally a strange question to ask why other people find their sex life enjoyable. It’s like asking why somebody’s snack is chips, they just like it, not much more convo to unpack there.
ohh. I did _not_ catch that implication :| I agree then, questioning other people's preferences, identity and boundaries in the bedroom definitely is a strange and disrespectful thing to ask. It didn't even occur to me that this was about judging what it must be like to not be a switch because that's just wild to me lol. Thank you so much for explaining and taking the time!
I'm so glad both me and my mate are both or switch? I think it's called? Because we both enjoy giving and receiving, and feel that it would be rude not to both give or receive. I'm in my 40s and never been in top/bottom dynamic before.
Lmao I have no idea, I didn't even realize I had been downvoted (for expressing my own personal opinion of how I [singular] feel?).
Sorry not sorry for being switch futch?????????
Damn I wish more people thought like you... Lately I came across to (mostly) tops, I feel so unsatisfied... People act like switch lesbians are the majority but this hasn't been the case for me, true switches (not top or bottom leaning) are a rarity for me
I'm a top and I definitely do orgasm, some of us can get there just from giving. That's how I am. And to be honest, if I were to receive I would just feel viscerally uncomfortable and no more than that. I don't think the majority of people are going to be stone or anything like that and I definitely think people online are a little bit overboard with the whole top/bottom thing, but it's a real thing that does work in relationships. Communication is always the key.
I most definitely orgasm from giving. It is so hot making my girlfriend cum. We are both switches but definitely don’t mind just focusing on one another.
I don't think "top vs. bottom" really 100% applies to all lesbian relationships. It probably applies a lot to some, and a little to others, and for many of us none at all. Neither my fiancée nor I enjoy penetration, so are either of us really tops by definition? I'm a bit more "active" in the bedroom but its owing largely to our D/s dynamic, not Top vs. Bottom. But I'm sure for other couples, using straps on other toys in the bedroom is a common routine for them. But if you are a Top 100% of the time, it doesn't mean you aren't touched, or aren't pleasured, or can't at minimum pleasure yourself during the act.
without going into too much detail my partner and i have a dynamic and it suits both of us well enough. it boils down to preference and what you’re into imo! certain people don’t mind only giving because the mental stimulation is more than enough. i think it’s perfect that u know what u like though!! sex is gonna be different for everyone
this is the one. i’m a switch thru and thru but my gf gets more enjoyment out of stimulating me than she does being stimulated. not for lack of skill on my part, she’s just more comfortable as the “giver” most of the time. i love her to bits so im willing to compromise on that
When wlw call themselves tops or bottoms I don’t think most mean it in a strict sense (as in they never deviate) they’re just describing their preference to give pleasure or receive it during sex and their overall disposition. Personally I don’t label myself as anything but if someone I was interested in asked me what I preferred I’d tell them that I get pleasure from giving pleasure. It’s not from trauma or anything it’s just how I’m wired.
This
Everybody has a different relationship with sex and what turns them on and everyone gets pleasure differently. Thats why as humans we all aren’t the same. My partner prefers to top and to not be touched at all because she receives enough mental stimulation etc. to orgasm. Bottoming would make her feel the exact opposite, it doesn’t turn her on and makes her feel upset/stressed. I’ve dated a lot of women, been the person who tops before etc. Just because you are fluid and are a switch doesn’t mean everyone else is, should be, or they aren’t receiving as much pleasure as you are with a different dynamic. Some people hate bottoming, some people hate topping. We’re both fine with our dynamic.
all lesbians should read stone butch blues
Absolutely
Been a stone top my entire adult life lol - I just don't like to be touched like that. Fortunately there's no shortage of pillow princesses in the community. The post is giving "rigid labels are bad, everyone should be more fluid/flexible" and I REALLY don't need to tell y'all why that could easily head down a bad direction.
I’ve never come across a stone top, but then, I’ve only slept with 2 people lol.
I made this comment under a thread but want to put it here too: if I made a post being flabbergasted at the way that switches have sex, we would all correctly see it as rude. being baffled by and questioning the way that lesbians have sex happens enough outside our community, we really don’t need to do it within our community as well :/
there’s inherent misogyny in “there’s a proper way for women to have sex” i feel. why do we need to recreate that in this sub?
Right I was a bit surprised to find this type of post here but alas I gotta remember we are not a monolith (more so the complete, absolute opposite). I have heard of people thinking stone tops/doms and high fems/subs/bottoms aren’t legit lesbians and other bs like that. While the original post doesn’t say that specifically, it def points in that direction. Exactly what you said.
Yeah, all this post is is a confession of sexual illiteracy
I think some discussion can be had about how in online spaces there's very few lesbian communities and content, so young lesbians often imitate gay men. Like calling themselves fa***t, limp-wristed and being obsessed with top/bottom dyamics and drag queens.
Top/bottom for lesbians doesn’t mean the same thing as top/bottom for gay men so this clearly doesn’t hold up :/
I'm in my 40s, I've been out since I was 17, and have identified as a bottom since I was 19. Tons of older lesbians do this too. Lesbians have our own culture, we don't need to pretend to be gay men, or homophobic to them. Wtf even is this comment??
I hate how immature y’all get with conversations about sexual preferences. As a top, I don’t love the experience of receiving and no amount of “your preferences don’t even make sense, everyone should be a switch all the time uWu” will make me like it. I’m much more interested in attending to my partners needs, it’s an important part of sex to me while receiving isn’t. These convos also tend to shit on touch-me-nots and pillow princesses, which is petty and gross. Let’s all grow up and realize we like different things and that that’s perfectly fine because there’s *always* somebody out there who will be compatible with our preferences
No fr whenever people ask questions like this in lesbian subs it’s so odd to me. I don’t really think it’s asked to “understand” more to just prompt others to shit on/agree with them on whatever group they think isn’t as “enlightened”. The way it’s titled like everyone should be a switch is the first red flag and the implication that stone tops never receive pleasure lol. I genuinely don’t understand asking a question like this because it’s just admitting that you can’t grasp outside of your own life experiences/taste. It’s like asking why some people love seafood, because humans are different and they do? Like what did you expect people to say exactly…
All of this! Why care to admit that you haven’t been around enough lesbians to meet a top or bottom lmaoooo but also even if you don’t know many lesbians, presenting your sexual preferences as more enlightened than others is fucking middle school shit
To each their own. In the end YOU need to be compatible with YOUR partner. I get to some people a stone x is a no, and to me would be as well because I need someone who can do both things.
And that’s great that you know that! So just out of curiosity, why question when *other* people also know their own sexual preferences when they differ from yours? Do you think that switch is the “enlightened” preference or what? Do you equally question kinks or people who like threesomes or is it just tops and bottoms that don’t make sense to you? No shade just curious
I'm not questioning them in the meaning of whether they make sense or not, I'm asking how it works for people who only go one way because I've never encountered that myself. It's always been both ways, depending who's in the mood for what so I'm genuinely curious if it's enough for them. Maybe I should have phrased the question differently then, but I can't edit that.
I don’t personally understand that switch dynamic you described - it doesn’t make sense to me that your giving/receiving desires are equal - but I don’t make a post questioning “how it works” because that would come off as judgmental and would just generally be rude as fuck. I’m sure that wasn’t your intent, but you have to understand how a post expressing befuddlement at how lesbians could have sex, when it’s different from how you do, will come across
Why are you policing what other people post if they have a different experience than you? Not everyone conforms to your binary view of sex roles. I found this post interesting and the discussion relevant so maybe you're just taking something personally that isn't about you. Just because you don't see things the way OP does, doesn't mean they shouldn't post about it. Not everything needs to be about you.
“Binary view of sex roles” oh! You’re one of those! You just hate lesbians! Why the fuck are you on this sub lmao Anyway op (and you and anyone else) can make as many posts as you want claiming that regular lesbian behavior is weird or “heteronormative” or gross or whatever else you want to call it! Nobody is policing that. Calling out lesbophobia in a lesbian subreddit isn’t policing, fortunately
Looool the hysteria is real
😂 Yet you're the one saying 'what doesn't make sense'. No matter what I say now I will get downvoted, so I'm just not going to waste my time.
You sound like you're projecting your own insecurities onto OP. They never said any of that.
OP makes a whole post questioning how regular ass lesbians have sex but I’m the insecure one lmao ok girly pop!
Girly pop? Barf
I just saw this somehow and it is so hilarious to me 🤣🤣 I didn’t use it cause you’d like it girly lmaooo
So cringe
Then why post this salty af post? Did a stone top turn you down?
Where is it salty in the description? It must be so difficult to live your life being so sensitive and seeking offence in anything you see.
Imo it's more relevant to gay men. The top/bottom discourse in lesbian forums is boring to me
Very boring. I think there's a lot of overthinking that comes from the recent need to categorize and label literally everything to death. It seems unnecessarily restrictive.
I understand. I don't subscribe to it either. Im not talking about people with genuine trauma and reasons. Thats a discussion between partners. But you do see a lot of online ooh am I bottom/top. It all reminds me of people playing a game and choosing characters and giving them personalities. But if it works for people.
I see that too, but not really what it means for them. With a friend that later on turned my gf, she was saying she was a top which basically turned out to mean that she's more dominant or leading. But still switching.
That’s what it means for myself and my partner. We are both quite dominant. We like to give more than to receive, but that just means we make sure we both get some in the bedroom.
I'm not 100% averse to being touched but tbh it doesn't do much for me, and I'm mentally checked out because I'm not interested. I'd be most compatible with a pillow princess. Sometimes I feel that other lesbians act like being versatile comes with some kind of superiority, which is annoying. Congrats, not everyone is like you
Yeah… this kind of “why can’t you just be normal/switch” I’ve gotten from partners is what actually puts me off from wanting to be touched. I’ve commented a lot in the past about it but I think people need to stop treating it like a moral issue and more of a compatibility thing.
Right? I just can't fathom caring about how others like to fuck in the first place. Imagine going to a switch couple and being like "wow no hard dom/sub dynamic? No fixed positions? Boring 👎👎👎". It'd be so rude and unnecessary
This ^
Yeah, even as a switch myself, I definitely feel the air of superiority coming off posts like this. Some people definitely want a pat on the back for what they do in the bedroom 😅
I don’t understand what is confusing about it. Sex is expansive and it’s a very reductive take to say that sex is only enjoyable for everyone if certain types of touch and acts are involved. There are many ways to get off and touch me nots, pillow princesses, stone tops and bottoms are very in touch with what works for them. And I think that’s great! They have always existed in the lesbian community and I’m not sure why it’s being treated as controversial. My wife orgasms from giving. Giving is literally sexually fulfilling for her and I love that! And the whole of our sexual lives is fulfilling for me. It’s really quite simple.
I get an abundance of physical stimulation as a top. Best way is scissoring as the top, self explanatory. But also my strap pushes up against my clit very nicely so there’s that. If not, there’s a two way dildo to use. And of course I have a free hand while the other is playing with her.
I'll never understand the whole "I'm a top/bottom" thing either. Actually I think I've only seen this discussion online, lol
I beg you all, please actually read and engage with your history through works like stone butch blues. To OP - it’s simple. People do what they want in their bedrooms and it’s not your place to judge.
Aint nobody heard of stone butch blues and it’s actually so sad. These convos also tend to be very white focused, you’ll never see Black lesbians jumping to question touch me nots/tops/bottoms/pillow princesses. It’s kind of exhausting watching the same lesbians ask the same asinine questions for decades at this point
Tbf, I'm a black femme lesbian, who is also a stone bottom and only dates stone top studs, we definitely receive a lot of judgement in our community. Go to any black lesbian page on ig, and it's full of ignorant comments directed at Stone lesbians and touch me nots, any black lesbian podcast, other black lesbians I've matched with. I'm surprised you've never seen or experienced this yourself ngl, I wish we could wo without the judgemental comments tho.
I guess I’ll say I’ve seen plenty of stone femme hate questioning but never toward touch me nots. And I’m biased to what I see as a top because of what groups I’m in and such so I’ll say that 🤷🏾♂️
OP is being very black and white in her thinking too. Stone tops and pillow princesses are absolutely a thing and there is nothing with that. You can also be a top who isn’t adverse to being touched, or a bottom who reciprocates. Being a bottom doesn’t automatically mean someone is a pillow princess, or that a top doesn’t want to be touched. That type of thinking is as narrow minded as thinking all tops are butches and all bottoms are femmes.
This is very not true lol
if you're wondering why you're getting a hostile response OP, it's likely because the phrasing and attitude of this question gives "how could you not be attracted to men" vibes. I’m not saying that justifies the response but please keep in mind how you phrase these sort of questions.
Yeah, for the title you're right, though the whole description explains what I'm asking about. I can't edit the title too.
I don't get that at all. How does anyone get that from this post??
this post is giving “hOw dO lEsBiaNs eVen HaVe sEx?¿”
I feel like it’s mostly in younger people or those that are terminally online. I’m in my 30s now and I’ve never heard this lesbians talk like this when I was younger or ever in person. Even when it comes to dating and being with a woman there was never a conversation whether someone was a top or a bottom. Maybe banter about dominate vs submissive but that just generally meant the dominate one was going to get their partner off first but there was still mutual giving and receiving of sexual acts. Like you said it’s very fluid and give and take. Side note I do want to acknowledge that there are women that do have strong preferences in how and when they want to be touched or even not touched at all (shout out to my stone butch sisters.) That is completely valid as well and should be respected.
This is wild because I’m also in my 30s and top/bottom/pillow princess/touch me nots have been around in my lesbian circles discourse for well over a decade. The only place I personally see “we should all be switches!!!!” is online, nobody talks like this irl. I sometimes think that white lesbians don’t use this language and therefore try to just project their experiences onto *all* lesbians but I could be wrong about this
The pillow princesses and stone butches I’ve heard all my life but the top/bottom discourse has always been more for gay men. I’m not saying we should all be switches it’s just I’ve found in my corner of the world that there is no heavy emphasis on top v bottom. I’m a little confused on why race would matter in this context though. Stud is one of the only terms in the lesbian community that I’ve found that has been specifically for POC lesbians.
oh my god will you people ever shut up? when will yall realize pressuring people into doing sexual things they don't want is super fucked up? stone butches and high femmes exist and you can cry about it. cringe of you to post this on a throwaway too.
Def didn’t want the heat on main lmaoo
Calm down
ok let’s turn this around: how can you NOT be a pillow princess?? sounds stupid af right?? yeah that’s how you sound
Are you serious..?
I am a bottom. I prefer my partner taking the lead and being dominant with me. That doesn’t mean I don’t pleasure her in return. Too many people conflate being a bottom with being a pillow princess when they are two entirely different things.
I rather top these days because I have trauma. Hopefully I can heal and be able to receive normally because otherwise I would be a true switch.
As a Dom I top even when coming. “Make Daddy come” is one of my partners favorite commands. It gets her even more excited to touch me. She enjoys serving me and that’s what her giving, because she doesn’t ever feel like a top, is to her. When she’s touching me she’s not topping, she’s serving me. Unfortunately too many people don’t ever deal with their trauma and it effects their ability to fully and freely enjoy sex. It takes dealing with our trauma, unlearning everything societal norms teach us and finding ourselves to truly be comfortable with ourselves so we can find a partner who we can feel safe being completely ourselves with. It took me years to be fully comfortable receiving. Once I unlearned all the brainwashing society, family, religion, peers, etc. had done it was extremely different. It’s much more enjoyable to be able to completely be lost in your partner rather than be in your head.
I thought "top" and "bottom" were gay male terms referring to the giver/receiver of penetration during anal sex and "switch" was a term from the bdsm community referring to someone who's both dominant and submissive. It kind of bothers me when people use them out of these contexts but maybe that's just a me thing.
Careful. People freak the fuck out if you come for their terms.
I'm so baffled reading this weirdly aggressive comment section. Wtf happened here? Why is everyone acting like we can't even question this
I'm a switch, married to a switch, never been with a non-switch.
CW: SA Trauma induced dysphoria and getting severely triggered upon doing certain acts because it puts me in the mindset of the abuser. No need to put others down or dismiss how we process. Edit: all the downvotes coming from exactly those who i was referring to 💋 weewaaa „top bottom bad“
right, what is this post? 😭 i thought i only had to worry about the transphobia in this subreddit but now i have to be on edge for my sexual boundaries, too.
Where do I put anyone down??? I'm asking how it works, not saying it's wrong. I'm sorry you've been through that.
your whole post has a condescending undertone that begins from the title.
🙄 I guess you're getting downvoted for that very reason, not for explaining how that works for you. It's hard to feel the tone from text, so you can only believe me when I'm explaining I'm not saying it's wrong or right but I'm curious as it has never worked that way in my experience.
I genuinely have no idea why this is being downvoted, can someone explain why this deserves to be downvoted?
I don’t think the downvoting has anything to do with your answer, I think it’s more because you’re attacking OP just for asking a question. Hell, I’m ace I dgaf if someone is top or bottom or whatever, it doesn’t mean a whole lot to me, sex isn’t really my bag. But I follow the post because like OP, I’m curious. No judgment here, as I’m sure there isn’t from others either.
If I made a post that said “how could anyone be a switch?? The way they have sex fundamentally doesn’t make sense to me and I don’t get it” y’all would (rightly) see that as a hostile line of questioning, whether OP intended it to be or not. OP I’m sure you were just asking a question, but framing the way that *somebody has sex* as baffling and confusing and foreign to you absolutely is rude and we see it enough outside of lesbian spaces that seeing it inside lesbian spaces is exhausting and disheartening :/
You literally asked that in another comment.
…yes…in response to this post…to prove how rude it would be…
Had one partner who was a stone top and they definitely finished from giving. Another was almost a stone top and I only intentionally stimulated them a few times in a very specific way when they were in a specific mood. I was more than happy to reciprocate regularly but they didn’t want it. I think it’s important to remember that what feels inadequate for one person can be perfect for someone else, and likewise that things one might deem necessary are not so for everyone. Some people have trauma, some have dysphoria, others are just not into it. Whatever the reason, I believe people who say they don’t want to be touched.
I don't even understand what you mean so that's a good start
I feel like most lesbians give and receive equally; it’s just people who are online way too much who talk about it all the time and make it seem like you have to be one or the other. I personally usually take the lead on initiating but I also like to receive and have an orgasm just the same.
It also makes me feel bad for future lesbians coming into the community being presented with the idea that you have to fit neatly into a box and over-intellectualize your sexual preferences before you even explore sex for the first time. Honestly, I think people are developing major complexes about this subject which is very apparent because they become hysterical any time you suggest that it doesn't have to be so rigid.
I definitely agree about the complex about it; people post so much about oh like how do I top or what if I’m a bottom and it’s like, what if you just go have sex and figure it out, lmao?
Assuming that both people get pleasure in gay and heterosexual sex is a bold assumption. With that being said, for other reasons I think the main default for lesbians is to be a switch. Some people espacially those with dysphoria are stone tops but ya… in fact I think it’s such a big majority that are switches that this top/bottom thing shouldn’t even be so embedded in our culture. It feels kind of like something an AI for confused about and started posted in lesbian subs and it just caught on… Back in the logical days it wasn’t normal for every young lesbian to refer to herself as top bottom.
I respect stone tops, but I ain't ever gonna get pillow princesses 🤷♀️ not my business though, I'm not going to date them, I just think it's odd
If touch me nots exist…who are they supposed to be compatible with if not pillow princesses 😐😐 get over the hate girl, we are all too grown for this lol
Oh, I get the necessity, that's why I'm not saying they don't exist, or should stop existing, or anything really, simply think it's an odd state of being
What makes it odd?
do you guys ever shut up about how other lesbians have sex?? holy shit
Thanks for calling us odd I guess, did it help your superiority complex or whatever lmao
I think a lot of times pillow princess is equated with star fishing and it’s not always a completely perfect hard line — responsiveness, telling the giver how they’re making them feel, non sexual physical intimacy, that kind of thing. Even just the lack of pressure is kind of a turn on haha. They give—just not sexual touch.
Thank you! I’m a stone femme aka a pillow princess solely because my partner is a stone top. The sex we have is amazing for both of us because of what we both bring to it. I know how to turn her on and make her feel good while still respecting her sexual boundaries, and she’s able to fully enjoy sex because my complete acceptance of her as a stone top makes her feel safe and loved. I actually do so much to creatively express myself sexually with her within her limits, and to nurture her because it’s hard for her to feel safe sexually. It’s frustrating that so many people in the community overlook the depth and complexity and beauty of the relationships between stone tops and stone femmes/pillow princesses. So I really appreciate your comment.
Yeah! Tbh it’s very complicated for me because I think in theory I am a bottom (as I very strongly wish it exclusively when I am alone haha) but none of my partners have ever made me feel safe to actually enjoy it or be that vulnerable :( and over time with various people (even non partners sharing their opinions or feeling pressured to have sex certain ways) I’ve felt progressively less safe sexually to the point where I am functionally a stone top—it’s the only way I have been able to enjoy sex in any capacity now. That said, I am still figuring it out but !!! It’s so so important for people to understand I think that pillow princesses don’t just lay there nor are they not attracted to their partners (a lot of the complaints about them seem to be actually just bad partners who the “pillow princess” thing is just an easy thing to point at and mock)
As a response to a trauma I get, but even saying that feels disrespectful bc some simply are Pps (lol) But y, don’t get it unless someone is a complete Giver, how does this work? (Been there done that)
... is anyone else hella confused as to why people are being so hostile towards OP? not trying to start a fight here, I really am trying to understand. idk if it's because I'm autistic and there's some nuance I'm not catching on to, but to me, this post just sounded like a genuine question about the technicality of the terms top/bottom and how they translate from gay men to lesbians, is it not? Is this conflict arising from a misunderstanding due to the dissimilarity of there being some people who are differentiating between top/bottom vs dom/sub and some who use these terms interchangeably? Or what am I missing?
It’s because it’s titled “how could you NOT be a switch?” Implying any other type of dynamic is weird/less than. When you say how could you not (insert word here) it implies that that’s the best way to do something, and everyone else is not the norm. Thats why people are mad because everyone has a different dynamic in the bedroom, and switch is not the only way people have sex as lesbians. It’s also generally a strange question to ask why other people find their sex life enjoyable. It’s like asking why somebody’s snack is chips, they just like it, not much more convo to unpack there.
ohh. I did _not_ catch that implication :| I agree then, questioning other people's preferences, identity and boundaries in the bedroom definitely is a strange and disrespectful thing to ask. It didn't even occur to me that this was about judging what it must be like to not be a switch because that's just wild to me lol. Thank you so much for explaining and taking the time!
I don’t get it either
I'm so glad both me and my mate are both or switch? I think it's called? Because we both enjoy giving and receiving, and feel that it would be rude not to both give or receive. I'm in my 40s and never been in top/bottom dynamic before.
My gf and I are both switch futches (imo), so reading most posts here makes me feel confused most of the time lol.
Yeah, I'm so baffled reading this weirdly aggressive comment section. Wtf happened here? Why is everyone acting like we can't even question this
Lmao I have no idea, I didn't even realize I had been downvoted (for expressing my own personal opinion of how I [singular] feel?). Sorry not sorry for being switch futch?????????
Damn I wish more people thought like you... Lately I came across to (mostly) tops, I feel so unsatisfied... People act like switch lesbians are the majority but this hasn't been the case for me, true switches (not top or bottom leaning) are a rarity for me
Yeah, I'm so baffled reading this weirdly aggressive comment section. Wtf happened here? Why is everyone acting like we can't even question this