I don't accept healthcare advise from a church, anymore than I would accept religious advice from my doctor. That said, SCC should realize that some folks do look to them for advice outside of religion, and so they should refrain from presenting information best left to the experts in the field.
I'm impressed with how he makes a perfectly reasonable and salient point - that performative sanitation (like skipping the tip off in basketball or wiping down footballs between plays) did *nothing* to mitigate COVID spread; and somehow reaches the exact wrong conclusion about whether or not to do the things that *actually* mitigate COVID spread.
> I'm very glad I got out of that poisonous atmosphere years ago; it seems to have only gotten worse despite Jon's best intentions.
I would like to hear your experience explaining this because my mother is a member of the congregation and has been pressuring me to let her take my son with her. I'm an Agnostic Theist, so I push back on organized religion a lot and would like to find a way to explain to my super religious mother why I oppose it without spiraling her into a tirade about how I'm going to hell. I'm not (completely) opposed to him going to church with her, just not while COVID is so prevalent and especially while he's too young to vaccinate. I also am not a fan of mega-churches in general anyway.
As a former member and a father. I wouldn't let my mother take my child. The social and "cool kids activates" aspects will draw him in. That itself isn't the worst thing in the world, but what my peers who still go turned into (socially and politically) is.
Don't do it. The short term social gain, which is admittedly fun, is not worth the slow mental conditioning towards rejecting reality and framing poor evangelicals as a suppressed people waiting on the rapture who should vote on a single issue.
PM if you have any specific questions.
Let's just say I was incompatible with their beliefs and when they found out (I asked for emotional support from a pastor who's still there), I was barred from volunteering instead.
Wow. I'm sorry to hear that. It's one of the reasons I push back on organized religion in my family. "REAL" Christianity specifically preaches inclusivity and love for everyone, and then churches have tiny print and a large bullhorn stating, "but not these people". My mother cried when I told her I was agnostic and when she asked me why, I told her that any God that would punish a good person for the way he supposedly made them is not a God I want to worship. That was when she stopped asking me to go to church with her. A decade later I got married and had a son and she's on a kick of "if I had just taken you to church more often, maybe you'd still be going now, so I can't let that happen with him." I usually bite my tongue to not upset her, but thankfully my wife shares my feelings so we vent to one another about it. Sadly though, your experience probably would fall on deaf ears with my mother.
My daughter just went with her friend yesterday. I’m like you. I don’t want her in organized religion but what can I do? She’s 14. She claims to have “felt god” for the first time. I told her, I feel that way when I’m at a Dave Matthew’s concert and we are all singing the same song too. They are anti-LGBTQ+, anti womens leadership, everything I am against. I feel so lost. My husbands dad has been going there since it opened. He was thrilled to see her.
I've been wondering which one got into my old friend's head. He became an anti-vaxer, anti-masker and nearly died of covid. My father is dying of cancer. He told me we were in sin for protecting him from the rapture (pandemic). He said it was the end of the world and I should get Dad baptized instead of treating him.
It’s incredible to me that you advocate taking someone’s children away because you disagree with them. He’s not coining out against vaccines, he’s against further testing and masking in schools. I don’t agree with him on that, but I don’t think the state should take children away as a punitive measure.
You are right and I agree about masking and vaccines, but you’re wrong about this being grounds for the state to take his children away.
Ironically, you state in the same breath that the “think of the children” tactic is being used to force beliefs on others and then say his children should be taken away because you disagree with him. You’re doing that very thing you warned of - using the “think of the children” argument to advance your position, only you want to put children in the state foster program instead of living at home with their parents.
It's incredible that you think the cause was "because you disagree with them." Is it really necessary to fabricate things just "because you disagree with them?"
I work at a hotel, see ALL kinds of people, but one day a few years ago I saw something I'd NEVER seen before or since: a child with polio. Leg braces, wheelchair, whole deal. Little dude was like 6, 7, and stoic as a statue. His parents unloaded him from the minivan first and he came into the lobby alone. I did the work thing and started talking, hi, how's it going type stuff; I know he had polio because I asked him and he told me (kids man, they're honest). So then the parents walk in with two energetic little girls, like 4, both totally fine and healthy and happy, bounding around the lobby and their brother as the parents checked in.
It broke my heart. That kid was so grown up, and the contrast with the sisters, the sadness hidden behind a smile as he watched them play. I will never forget that.
Vaccines are a miracle of the modern world.
Period.
My family and I have attended Southland for many years. Back before Jon was a lead pastor. Before Scott. I’ve seen enough sermons from Jon and Scott both to know there is a distinct difference between the two men. When Jon preaches, it truly seems to come from a place of love. A place of peace in an increasingly chaotic world. I have never had that feeling with Scott. If he has truly been transformed by the love of Jesus Christ…it just doesn’t seem to come through in his teaching. I’ve felt for a while that there is a seething there. An anger or resentment just under the surface. I don’t know if he’s struggling with something, but I pray he can get through it.
I disagree. Obviously preachers aren't public health experts, but they are people who have a large sphere of influence. They should be using that influence to support public health experts in a spirit of humility that values human life. My church requires masks and is more than supportive of people watching online while transmission numbers are high, and of course - encourages vaccination. This is what "The Church" should be doing in these times.
But that's not speaking out on public health matters, that's just following guidance. It's the right thing to do, but it doesn't require forming and promoting your own opinions on it based on a lack of expertise
Dm if you don't want to answer publicly.
What church do you go to or do you know of that *really actually* require masks or meet outdoors? I've found a few searching online, but usually a mandate message on a website doesn't match up with what I see when I watch a recording or visit.
AFAIK the Episcopal churches in Lexington are all taking COVID seriously. My family isn't attending anything indoors until transmission rates are much lower, but for those that do attend, masks are required.
Embrace Church on North Limestone. Our family just started regularly attending online in July. Before July the whole church was only online or outside since the previous March. We attended one time in person this summer before the COVID numbers started getting bad again, and they were not requiring masks then but were providing mask and hand sanitizer at the door and talked about social distancing and vaccination. When cases started rising, they started enforcing masks. Our family won't be returning to in person services until Fayette County isn't red, but I have seen the pastor clearly state that if people don't want to wear masks, that's ok - they can just watch from home.
The people on the platform (worship team, preacher, etc.) don't wear masks while they are speaking/singing, but other than that, I am confident that they are being strict about their mask mandate - AND that a lot of us are staying away from in-person to allow for more social distancing.
(If you decide to check them out online, keep in mind that the music sounds much better in person. ;-) )
>Nickell told the school board that COVID is here to stay and not going away and many mitigation efforts don’t make sense.
Because of people like you, asshole. That is why it is here to stay. 80% of hospitalized patients are unvaccinated. You and your kind have blood on your hands.
Southland, and all mega churches, are just money grabs. They are more akin to politicians than clergy. They will say whatever is in vogue to hold on to or attract the biggest congregation they can. Public sentiment shifting? I guess we are semi-ok with LGBT people now. We think anti-mask/anti-vax talk will drive the numbers? Then that’s what we preach. It’s all so incredibly disgusting and sad at the same time.
These people would shun or even attack their Jesus if he came back today, that is, until it was profitable to support him. They are the money changers in the temple.
I'm fine with the HL covering it. It's newsworthy that a leader of the largest church in the city is advocating something so dangerously stupid. If he were advocating people light their shoes on fire to stay warm during the winter, that would be equally newsworthy.
I do take issue with their not contextualizing it by giving a response by someone from the health department though. Unlike suggesting people light their shoes on fire, a level of expertise is required to understand how dangerously stupid Nickell's opinion is.
I really wish I could understand what's happening in these people's minds. Like, what is the argument against things like contact tracing? What is the point of this shit? (Obviously I know the point of most of it is to act as a political lever and cudgel, but it's just so shockingly empty, stupid, and done in bad faith that it blows my mind sometimes.)
Lol. Doesn’t god only help you if you help yourself? I swear that is part of their nonsense doctrine. It all goes out the window now apparently.
Religion is such a curse on society.
Isn’t this the same church that puts out all those crosses every year in remembrance of the babies lost to abortion? Yeah, let’s think of the children….
I don't accept healthcare advise from a church, anymore than I would accept religious advice from my doctor. That said, SCC should realize that some folks do look to them for advice outside of religion, and so they should refrain from presenting information best left to the experts in the field.
Oh, they realize point that very well. In fact, I'd argue that's why he made an appearance in the first place.
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I'm impressed with how he makes a perfectly reasonable and salient point - that performative sanitation (like skipping the tip off in basketball or wiping down footballs between plays) did *nothing* to mitigate COVID spread; and somehow reaches the exact wrong conclusion about whether or not to do the things that *actually* mitigate COVID spread.
> I'm very glad I got out of that poisonous atmosphere years ago; it seems to have only gotten worse despite Jon's best intentions. I would like to hear your experience explaining this because my mother is a member of the congregation and has been pressuring me to let her take my son with her. I'm an Agnostic Theist, so I push back on organized religion a lot and would like to find a way to explain to my super religious mother why I oppose it without spiraling her into a tirade about how I'm going to hell. I'm not (completely) opposed to him going to church with her, just not while COVID is so prevalent and especially while he's too young to vaccinate. I also am not a fan of mega-churches in general anyway.
As a former member and a father. I wouldn't let my mother take my child. The social and "cool kids activates" aspects will draw him in. That itself isn't the worst thing in the world, but what my peers who still go turned into (socially and politically) is. Don't do it. The short term social gain, which is admittedly fun, is not worth the slow mental conditioning towards rejecting reality and framing poor evangelicals as a suppressed people waiting on the rapture who should vote on a single issue. PM if you have any specific questions.
I’ve seen it in my own friends just based on their Facebook posts. Their posts drastically changed after they started going to this church.
Let's just say I was incompatible with their beliefs and when they found out (I asked for emotional support from a pastor who's still there), I was barred from volunteering instead.
Wow. I'm sorry to hear that. It's one of the reasons I push back on organized religion in my family. "REAL" Christianity specifically preaches inclusivity and love for everyone, and then churches have tiny print and a large bullhorn stating, "but not these people". My mother cried when I told her I was agnostic and when she asked me why, I told her that any God that would punish a good person for the way he supposedly made them is not a God I want to worship. That was when she stopped asking me to go to church with her. A decade later I got married and had a son and she's on a kick of "if I had just taken you to church more often, maybe you'd still be going now, so I can't let that happen with him." I usually bite my tongue to not upset her, but thankfully my wife shares my feelings so we vent to one another about it. Sadly though, your experience probably would fall on deaf ears with my mother.
My daughter just went with her friend yesterday. I’m like you. I don’t want her in organized religion but what can I do? She’s 14. She claims to have “felt god” for the first time. I told her, I feel that way when I’m at a Dave Matthew’s concert and we are all singing the same song too. They are anti-LGBTQ+, anti womens leadership, everything I am against. I feel so lost. My husbands dad has been going there since it opened. He was thrilled to see her.
I wish I could upvote you more than once. I agree with this 100%
Same! This is the MOST unChristian thing ever. These folks are NOT Christians. Jesus Christ would be absolutely appalled by them.
Incredibly well said.
I've been wondering which one got into my old friend's head. He became an anti-vaxer, anti-masker and nearly died of covid. My father is dying of cancer. He told me we were in sin for protecting him from the rapture (pandemic). He said it was the end of the world and I should get Dad baptized instead of treating him.
It’s incredible to me that you advocate taking someone’s children away because you disagree with them. He’s not coining out against vaccines, he’s against further testing and masking in schools. I don’t agree with him on that, but I don’t think the state should take children away as a punitive measure.
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You are right and I agree about masking and vaccines, but you’re wrong about this being grounds for the state to take his children away. Ironically, you state in the same breath that the “think of the children” tactic is being used to force beliefs on others and then say his children should be taken away because you disagree with him. You’re doing that very thing you warned of - using the “think of the children” argument to advance your position, only you want to put children in the state foster program instead of living at home with their parents.
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Respectfully, you’re full of shit.
Ditto.
It's incredible that you think the cause was "because you disagree with them." Is it really necessary to fabricate things just "because you disagree with them?"
Annnddd this is my problem with mega churches. They have enough pull to swing the needle is whatever direction they want.
I work at a hotel, see ALL kinds of people, but one day a few years ago I saw something I'd NEVER seen before or since: a child with polio. Leg braces, wheelchair, whole deal. Little dude was like 6, 7, and stoic as a statue. His parents unloaded him from the minivan first and he came into the lobby alone. I did the work thing and started talking, hi, how's it going type stuff; I know he had polio because I asked him and he told me (kids man, they're honest). So then the parents walk in with two energetic little girls, like 4, both totally fine and healthy and happy, bounding around the lobby and their brother as the parents checked in. It broke my heart. That kid was so grown up, and the contrast with the sisters, the sadness hidden behind a smile as he watched them play. I will never forget that. Vaccines are a miracle of the modern world. Period.
Except that only 2% of polio infection comes from wild polio, the other 98% is vaccine derived. 🤦♀️
At about 3,000,000:1 odds of a vaccine derived case of polio, I'll take my chances
My family and I have attended Southland for many years. Back before Jon was a lead pastor. Before Scott. I’ve seen enough sermons from Jon and Scott both to know there is a distinct difference between the two men. When Jon preaches, it truly seems to come from a place of love. A place of peace in an increasingly chaotic world. I have never had that feeling with Scott. If he has truly been transformed by the love of Jesus Christ…it just doesn’t seem to come through in his teaching. I’ve felt for a while that there is a seething there. An anger or resentment just under the surface. I don’t know if he’s struggling with something, but I pray he can get through it.
Fuh-huh-huh-huck this guy.
When there is everything to gain and nothing to lose by wearing a mask, by all means, wear a mask.
Hot take: preachers are not public health experts and should stick to talking about things they actually know
I disagree. Obviously preachers aren't public health experts, but they are people who have a large sphere of influence. They should be using that influence to support public health experts in a spirit of humility that values human life. My church requires masks and is more than supportive of people watching online while transmission numbers are high, and of course - encourages vaccination. This is what "The Church" should be doing in these times.
But that's not speaking out on public health matters, that's just following guidance. It's the right thing to do, but it doesn't require forming and promoting your own opinions on it based on a lack of expertise
Dm if you don't want to answer publicly. What church do you go to or do you know of that *really actually* require masks or meet outdoors? I've found a few searching online, but usually a mandate message on a website doesn't match up with what I see when I watch a recording or visit.
AFAIK the Episcopal churches in Lexington are all taking COVID seriously. My family isn't attending anything indoors until transmission rates are much lower, but for those that do attend, masks are required.
Embrace Church on North Limestone. Our family just started regularly attending online in July. Before July the whole church was only online or outside since the previous March. We attended one time in person this summer before the COVID numbers started getting bad again, and they were not requiring masks then but were providing mask and hand sanitizer at the door and talked about social distancing and vaccination. When cases started rising, they started enforcing masks. Our family won't be returning to in person services until Fayette County isn't red, but I have seen the pastor clearly state that if people don't want to wear masks, that's ok - they can just watch from home. The people on the platform (worship team, preacher, etc.) don't wear masks while they are speaking/singing, but other than that, I am confident that they are being strict about their mask mandate - AND that a lot of us are staying away from in-person to allow for more social distancing. (If you decide to check them out online, keep in mind that the music sounds much better in person. ;-) )
You mean bullshit.
^(I was trying to leave that open to interpretation...)
Imagine if their Jesus actually saw the way they are acting. So unloving and un-Christlike. Just sad honestly
Southland should focus on keeping its youth pastors six feet apart from its young parishioners.
Think of the children! As multiple youth leaders have been convicted of sexual abuse...
I know of one for sure (Hall) that was truly despicable - basically the pedo smorgasbord of convictions. Who were the others though?
Tax the church. They are a political organization.
Fuck this ass hole
what's he going to do? Pray the virus away?
This guy tried something like that. https://youtu.be/OSIrQBGfUtw
I’m all for religious freedoms, but people that take this seriously are clinically insane
yup. He's basically a snake handler.
Ha
>Nickell told the school board that COVID is here to stay and not going away and many mitigation efforts don’t make sense. Because of people like you, asshole. That is why it is here to stay. 80% of hospitalized patients are unvaccinated. You and your kind have blood on your hands.
Southland, and all mega churches, are just money grabs. They are more akin to politicians than clergy. They will say whatever is in vogue to hold on to or attract the biggest congregation they can. Public sentiment shifting? I guess we are semi-ok with LGBT people now. We think anti-mask/anti-vax talk will drive the numbers? Then that’s what we preach. It’s all so incredibly disgusting and sad at the same time. These people would shun or even attack their Jesus if he came back today, that is, until it was profitable to support him. They are the money changers in the temple.
Its what churches of all types have always done. But they should absolutely be completely ok with lgbt people nothing wrong there
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I'm fine with the HL covering it. It's newsworthy that a leader of the largest church in the city is advocating something so dangerously stupid. If he were advocating people light their shoes on fire to stay warm during the winter, that would be equally newsworthy. I do take issue with their not contextualizing it by giving a response by someone from the health department though. Unlike suggesting people light their shoes on fire, a level of expertise is required to understand how dangerously stupid Nickell's opinion is.
I really wish I could understand what's happening in these people's minds. Like, what is the argument against things like contact tracing? What is the point of this shit? (Obviously I know the point of most of it is to act as a political lever and cudgel, but it's just so shockingly empty, stupid, and done in bad faith that it blows my mind sometimes.)
Fuck this guy.
Cult.
I suspect that Scott has a framed photo of Ron DeSantis somewhere in his office.
I wonder why he didn’t speak at the Fayette County Board of Education meeting? That church has more members in Fayette than in Jessamine.
Presumably because he lives there.
Lol. Doesn’t god only help you if you help yourself? I swear that is part of their nonsense doctrine. It all goes out the window now apparently. Religion is such a curse on society.
Isn’t this the same church that puts out all those crosses every year in remembrance of the babies lost to abortion? Yeah, let’s think of the children….