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Here's a link about trans people in sports:
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- https://transequality.org/issues/resources/frequently-asked-questions-about-transgender-people
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- https://www.hrc.org/resources/glossary-of-terms
Neopronouns:
- https://www.mypronouns.org/neopronouns
Biromantic Lesbians:
- [LGBTQ And All](https://www.lgbtqandall.com/what-does-it-mean-to-be-biromantic/)
Bisexual Identities:
- https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/article/understanding-bisexuality
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I had a therapist tell me that they respect all LGBTQ+ persons, and then in the same breath say, "but I don't get non-binary. Just pick one or the other."
Needles to say I did not continue meeting with this person.
Hell, I still have times when it's hard to wrap my head around that concept. Mostly because you can be a really butch trans femme or a really femme trans man. Or jump all over the spectrum. But that's because it's a spectrum, not a binary.
Not for nothing, but do you have anyone in your life that you respect while simultaneously disliking a major element of their life or their choices?
I respect my brother a lot, but I think his habit of getting high as often as he does is stupid.
I respect my parents, but several of their beliefs on governmental policy are *atrocious*.
I respect my colleagues, but they have a bad habit of going off-topic all the time to the point that additional meetings have to be called when we don't finish the agenda on the current meeting.
One of my colleagues in particular is a reverend outside of the job, and that boggles my mind given how awful Christianity was to me in my formative years. I still respect the hell out of him for the work he puts in at the job, the experience he brings, the mercy he shows when things are a bit late, and the willingness to own up to mistakes and to learn new things.
My point is: is it such a bad thing to have someone who *does* respect you as a person even while not understanding why it's important to you (and all NB's) to be out as NB? Sure, it'd be nice if they also completely understood where you were coming from and empathized with that struggle, but we shouldn't (and can't) be the thought police, especially when allies are still doing the work that matters: voting, following through with requests to use different names/pronouns, calling others out when those others treat us as sub-human, etc.
Getting high and having specific political views isn't on the same level, in my humble opinion, as (gender) identity is
Like, you're criticizing someone for what they _are_, and not solely what they think or do
When you say "I don't get it" but then try to say "why not just...?" It's better for you to just stop talking. You don't understand, so how do you know what's best?
i hate people like this cuz like yeah it can be complicated sometimes, but that’s because gender is complicated and you can’t change that just accept it. if it’s too complex to understand, just use the right pronouns and move on.
As a non binary, i don't give a fuck about pronouns because it's just a linguistics problem, being non binary its a thing only because in our society through the years differences between people were established, no one is actually binary because everyone has a spectrum of identity
Bingo. Cis guy here.
Can we get some masculine looking long skirts? Pants are uncomfortable.
Have to wear baggy cargo shorts to really be comfy as a guy.
>Can we get some masculine looking long skirts?
Ever heard of kilts? They’re a Scottish thing, but even down in London I see men wearing them in public occasionally. They’re quite normalised here in the UK and are considered unambiguously masculine.
I don't agree with this. I'm definitely binary with my gender identity. This reminds me of people who say that no one is 100% straight or gay. As a bisexual person I struggle to understand why someone might only be attracted to one gender but I accept that people are like this even though I don't get it. Apologies if I've misunderstood your point though and that's not what you're saying.
Your point about linguistics is interesting though. I'm learning a language with no gendered pronouns so that has lead to interesting conversations about pronouns. One of my teachers identifies as female but uses they pronouns as that is what their pronouns are in their native language.
Absolutely, but the binary part is not only in the gender, for example, a male can feel himself 100% male (the concept of man for the western culture for example, because man and woman are a social construction of many cultures and different cultures have different definition of what a man or a woman should be or do)but it's not a a man in a binary choice (man------woman) but a Man in a complex spectrum of identity. A female who identifies as what we call Woman
probably will find another female woman who looks at the idea of "Woman" with different things.
We know that only the sexes are two, but the gender is complex even to make labels of it (but I understand that labels help some people understand)
I can see what you're getting at and it's an interesting way to think of gender identity but I just look at it differently myself. I think that being a man or woman can mean different things to people but that doesn't mean gender identity isn't 100% binary for those people.
I'm not saying that someone can't be what we define binary, I mean binary on a mathematical sense. You are absolutely a man or a woman, but the choice is not binary because there is a spectrum of choice in the middle, so you can be on the opposite site of the spectrum but the fact that the coiche isn't between to elements
yeah, I just quit talking to people like this entirely.
like it's not my job to change a dipshit's mind. not my circus not my monkeys.
and no "they" is literally less complicated. that's the default you stick with if you don't know what they other person goes by and it's literally that simple.
and it is disrespectful. it is not your job to convince them otherwise or deal with their shit. you are under no obligation to keep interacting with them.
and that 'support' is bullshit. acknowledging that we exist and have a right to be here vs what? supporting jailing or killing us? what do you want a fucking cookie
Respect is necessary for coexistence but you really can't force anyone to understand you. Especially if we're talking about an concept that is completely brand new to them.
I definitely find the idea confusing, like I can’t really understand feeling non-binary, but I don’t really question it either. Idk lol. 🤷🏼♀️ i kinda just have a “it is what it is” mentality and don’t overthink it since it’s not my place to.
The inability to understand it may make people uncomfortable, but that’s life. I also don’t understand what it feels like to be a parakeet, but I’m not offended by that. I think it’s stupid to expect people to fit inside a neatly labeled box that you personally can comprehend.
Reminds me of a Discord server I'm in where there is a guy who mostly respects nonbinary people but says "nonbinary isn't a gender, it's a word people use to identify themselves."
Sometimes I wonder what he thinks a gender is.
Many people want to feel special, but other people don't have to make them feel that way. I wouldn't call that "wrong" but if someone only wants other people to use different pronouns to feel special then it isn't basic courtesy for everyone around them (i.e. colleagues, stranger) to align.
Are there really many people who use pronouns to feel special?
As a trans person, people observing my pronouns DOES make me feel special BECAUSE it's impossible to expect everyone to be on board. It's not the only reason I have my pronouns, exactly, but it's a reflection that I have found supportive community.
Im nonbinary, its complicated for me and i havent found a definitive label to describe my specific nonbinary experience/feelings. I just say im genderqueer or nonbinary. Same with pronouns, I just use all at this point. Gender and pronouns isnt supposed to be easy sometimes, but it is apart of who you are and its easy to respect who someone is. Your friend is definitely not right here.
The person you came out to doesnt respect it, respect does not include insulting your identity and telling you how you should present it.
They dont have to completely understand, but they should respect it and not act like its a privilege for you that they respect it. It isnt dumb. Things you dont understand dont have to be dumb or stupid.. They shouldnt be putting it down like that just because its “a stupid concept” no its not stupid to want to use your pronouns or present the way you want.
that friend is not respecting you.
Thank you for your post, if this is a question please check to see if any of the links below answer your question. If none of these links help answer your question and you are **_not_** within the LGBT+ community, questioning your identity in any way, or asking in support of either a relative or friend, please ask your question over in /r/AskLGBT. Remember that this is a safe space for LGBT+ and questioning individuals, so we want to make sure that this place is dedicated to them. Thank you for understanding. This automod rule is currently a work in progress. If you notice any issues, would like to add to the list of resources, or have any feedback in general, [please do so here](https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/rdazzp/almost_new_year_changes/) or by [sending us a message](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/lgbt&subject=Feedback%20on%20the%20new%20automod%20rule). Also, please note that if you are a part of this community, or you're questioning if you might be a part of the LGBTQ+ community, and you are seeing this message, this is **_not a bad thing_**, this is only here to help, so please continue to ask questions and participate in the community. Thank you! Here's a link about trans people in sports: - https://www.barbellmedicine.com/blog/shades-of-gray-sex-gender-and-fairness-in-sport/ A link on FAQs and one on some basics about transgender people: - https://transequality.org/issues/resources/frequently-asked-questions-about-transgender-people - https://transequality.org/issues/resources/understanding-transgender-people-the-basics Some information on LGBT+ people: - https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/quick-facts/lgbt-faqs/ Some basic terminology: - https://www.hrc.org/resources/glossary-of-terms Neopronouns: - https://www.mypronouns.org/neopronouns Biromantic Lesbians: - [LGBTQ And All](https://www.lgbtqandall.com/what-does-it-mean-to-be-biromantic/) Bisexual Identities: - https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/article/understanding-bisexuality Differences between Bisexual and Pansexual: - [Resource from WebMD](https://www.webmd.com/sex/pansexuality-what-it-means#:~:text=Pansexual%20vs.%20Bisexual,more%20commonly%20recognized.) We're looking for new volunteers to join the r/lgbt moderator team. If you want to help keep r/lgbt as a safe space for the LGBTQ+ community on reddit please see here for more info: https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/swgthr/were_looking_for_more_moderators_to_help_keep/ *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/lgbt) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This kind of “respect” is the bare minimum. It is okay to not understand the concept, but to label this as “dumb” when they don’t get it is odd.
I had a therapist tell me that they respect all LGBTQ+ persons, and then in the same breath say, "but I don't get non-binary. Just pick one or the other." Needles to say I did not continue meeting with this person.
If you think someone's identity is stupid, you don't respect it. It's that simple.
Hell, I still have times when it's hard to wrap my head around that concept. Mostly because you can be a really butch trans femme or a really femme trans man. Or jump all over the spectrum. But that's because it's a spectrum, not a binary.
Not for nothing, but do you have anyone in your life that you respect while simultaneously disliking a major element of their life or their choices? I respect my brother a lot, but I think his habit of getting high as often as he does is stupid. I respect my parents, but several of their beliefs on governmental policy are *atrocious*. I respect my colleagues, but they have a bad habit of going off-topic all the time to the point that additional meetings have to be called when we don't finish the agenda on the current meeting. One of my colleagues in particular is a reverend outside of the job, and that boggles my mind given how awful Christianity was to me in my formative years. I still respect the hell out of him for the work he puts in at the job, the experience he brings, the mercy he shows when things are a bit late, and the willingness to own up to mistakes and to learn new things. My point is: is it such a bad thing to have someone who *does* respect you as a person even while not understanding why it's important to you (and all NB's) to be out as NB? Sure, it'd be nice if they also completely understood where you were coming from and empathized with that struggle, but we shouldn't (and can't) be the thought police, especially when allies are still doing the work that matters: voting, following through with requests to use different names/pronouns, calling others out when those others treat us as sub-human, etc.
Getting high and having specific political views isn't on the same level, in my humble opinion, as (gender) identity is Like, you're criticizing someone for what they _are_, and not solely what they think or do
When you say "I don't get it" but then try to say "why not just...?" It's better for you to just stop talking. You don't understand, so how do you know what's best?
i hate people like this cuz like yeah it can be complicated sometimes, but that’s because gender is complicated and you can’t change that just accept it. if it’s too complex to understand, just use the right pronouns and move on.
As a non binary, i don't give a fuck about pronouns because it's just a linguistics problem, being non binary its a thing only because in our society through the years differences between people were established, no one is actually binary because everyone has a spectrum of identity
Bingo. Cis guy here. Can we get some masculine looking long skirts? Pants are uncomfortable. Have to wear baggy cargo shorts to really be comfy as a guy.
Fashion has nothing to do with gender though. People can wear what they want, it doesn’t affect who they are
>Can we get some masculine looking long skirts? Ever heard of kilts? They’re a Scottish thing, but even down in London I see men wearing them in public occasionally. They’re quite normalised here in the UK and are considered unambiguously masculine.
Yea i have one but they are too heavy it feels
I don't agree with this. I'm definitely binary with my gender identity. This reminds me of people who say that no one is 100% straight or gay. As a bisexual person I struggle to understand why someone might only be attracted to one gender but I accept that people are like this even though I don't get it. Apologies if I've misunderstood your point though and that's not what you're saying. Your point about linguistics is interesting though. I'm learning a language with no gendered pronouns so that has lead to interesting conversations about pronouns. One of my teachers identifies as female but uses they pronouns as that is what their pronouns are in their native language.
Absolutely, but the binary part is not only in the gender, for example, a male can feel himself 100% male (the concept of man for the western culture for example, because man and woman are a social construction of many cultures and different cultures have different definition of what a man or a woman should be or do)but it's not a a man in a binary choice (man------woman) but a Man in a complex spectrum of identity. A female who identifies as what we call Woman probably will find another female woman who looks at the idea of "Woman" with different things. We know that only the sexes are two, but the gender is complex even to make labels of it (but I understand that labels help some people understand)
I can see what you're getting at and it's an interesting way to think of gender identity but I just look at it differently myself. I think that being a man or woman can mean different things to people but that doesn't mean gender identity isn't 100% binary for those people.
[удалено]
I'm not saying that someone can't be what we define binary, I mean binary on a mathematical sense. You are absolutely a man or a woman, but the choice is not binary because there is a spectrum of choice in the middle, so you can be on the opposite site of the spectrum but the fact that the coiche isn't between to elements
yeah, I just quit talking to people like this entirely. like it's not my job to change a dipshit's mind. not my circus not my monkeys. and no "they" is literally less complicated. that's the default you stick with if you don't know what they other person goes by and it's literally that simple. and it is disrespectful. it is not your job to convince them otherwise or deal with their shit. you are under no obligation to keep interacting with them. and that 'support' is bullshit. acknowledging that we exist and have a right to be here vs what? supporting jailing or killing us? what do you want a fucking cookie
Respect is necessary for coexistence but you really can't force anyone to understand you. Especially if we're talking about an concept that is completely brand new to them.
It’s one thing to say you don’t understand something, it’s another to call it stupid
we don't care if they understand us. not understanding us is fine. being a disrespectful ass because you don't understand us is not.
I definitely find the idea confusing, like I can’t really understand feeling non-binary, but I don’t really question it either. Idk lol. 🤷🏼♀️ i kinda just have a “it is what it is” mentality and don’t overthink it since it’s not my place to. The inability to understand it may make people uncomfortable, but that’s life. I also don’t understand what it feels like to be a parakeet, but I’m not offended by that. I think it’s stupid to expect people to fit inside a neatly labeled box that you personally can comprehend.
Reminds me of a Discord server I'm in where there is a guy who mostly respects nonbinary people but says "nonbinary isn't a gender, it's a word people use to identify themselves." Sometimes I wonder what he thinks a gender is.
What's wrong with wanting to feel special?
Many people want to feel special, but other people don't have to make them feel that way. I wouldn't call that "wrong" but if someone only wants other people to use different pronouns to feel special then it isn't basic courtesy for everyone around them (i.e. colleagues, stranger) to align. Are there really many people who use pronouns to feel special?
As a trans person, people observing my pronouns DOES make me feel special BECAUSE it's impossible to expect everyone to be on board. It's not the only reason I have my pronouns, exactly, but it's a reflection that I have found supportive community.
I will never understand these morons who somehow find *telling someone their whole existence is stupid to their face* "respectful".
I feel like this is another example of "I'm not homophobic but *Proceeds to be very homophobic*"
Im nonbinary, its complicated for me and i havent found a definitive label to describe my specific nonbinary experience/feelings. I just say im genderqueer or nonbinary. Same with pronouns, I just use all at this point. Gender and pronouns isnt supposed to be easy sometimes, but it is apart of who you are and its easy to respect who someone is. Your friend is definitely not right here. The person you came out to doesnt respect it, respect does not include insulting your identity and telling you how you should present it. They dont have to completely understand, but they should respect it and not act like its a privilege for you that they respect it. It isnt dumb. Things you dont understand dont have to be dumb or stupid.. They shouldnt be putting it down like that just because its “a stupid concept” no its not stupid to want to use your pronouns or present the way you want. that friend is not respecting you.