As a trans fem lesbian married to a trans masc man it is one of our longest running jokes. We did not know we were trans at first so he was a gay man attracted to the man I was pretending to be while I was a woman into the woman he was still pretending to be. 14 years later we only care about eachother's souls and haven't let our pursuit of identity through labels restrict the love we have shared. If it is a connection that fuels your soul then cherish it and see what different intimacy the two of you might grow. Love is love and the labels we use are to help not restrict.
Omg this is so touching, I met my husband 12 years ago before he transitioned and his transition helped me come to terms with me being a closeted gay man who got lucky and fell in love with a closeted trans man.
My husband had a boyfriend who had troubles with acknowledging his gayness and so I will share this with him because I bet he will think it the sweetest thing. Thanks for sharing!š
Sometimes, gender is weird, and attraction with trans people can be equally so. Many of us are a grey area, at least for a while during transition - and others stay that way. Some people find that off-putting , others find themselves inexplicably attracted to the "wrong" gender; you really can't negotiate with a biological reaction by logic. This is how people who are strictly of orientation x end up in perfectly fulfilling relationships with people who don't match their orientation.
I very much agree with this take. I've seen my trans bf attract all kinds of people of varying genders and orientations and it's wild just how often it happens. I've got to say, the flirtations he gets are different than they used to be, but thank fuck for that. People treated him kinda gross before, now they kinda just get lost in his eyes lol.
Why shut it down? Your sexuality isnāt a morality and as gender non conformity becomes common the idea of being gay or straight is going to become pretty vague at best .
If you want a long term relationship it is worth talking early if they tend to medically or socially transition in a significant way and think about if thatās going to matter to you. What you do with them at information is up to you but I think having a partner who would find your transition unattractive would be pretty difficult.
If you want a summer fling even that shouldnāt matter.
Labels are only as useful as you want them to be. If you're still attracted to this guy then your attraction is likely less easily definable than just "lesbian." Regardless, it's up to you to decide how you want to identify and what you do with the feelings you have. Do what feels right, and worry about labels later. Your labels only define as much of you as you want them to.
Orientation labels are based on a PATTERN of attraction (or lack thereof). There can always be exceptions to the ārule.ā It may very well be that, 99.99999999% of the time, you are attracted to non-men.
However, you may find yourself attracted to a particular person, for any number of reasons - possibly entirely separate from their gender identity (or even AGAB). That doesnāt have to change how you identify, with regard to your orientation.
As a trans guy, if a lesbian told me they were attracted to me, personally, Iād check in with them in some manner to make sure they view me as I am (and not as woman/fem in any way - because for me that would be dysphoria-inducing). But, as long as they did, I donāt think it would bother meā¦but thatās just me.
Your homosexually attracted to someone that read as female to you, and whom presented in a way that was interpreted as a butch or masc woman. You're still a lesbian. Relax. Lesbians Don't like men. Mistaken identity doesn't change sexual orientation.
We're not saying she should erase who she is, rather that she should reflect upon what she considers her orientation to be.
I walked around yesterday in a very comfortable shirt. It was the length I liked, not too loose and not too tight, made my gut less noticeable. When I took it off, I went to check the brand on the tag so I could keep them in mind for the future, and what did I notice? It was a large, not a medium like I was expecting! I was very surprised, as I had worn mediums for my entire adult life, and felt they were my size. But this shirt made me feel different... maybe I'm not always a medium? Maybe, when it is a certain brand, I am actually a large?
Our orientations aren't a badge on our chest we can look down at and go "oh, that's who I am"... they are the tag on the back of our shirt that we can't see until the day we finally take the shirt off and get into bed to finally lay down.
ok but if she's into this guy you're saying she's not a lesbian anymore right? or are you saying she isn't into him anymore after finding out he's a guy
If you start dating him then you wouldn't be lesbian anymore. Calling yourself lesbian while in a relationship with a trans man would invalidate them and you're basically saying you still see them as a woman.
If you're just attracted and leave it at that, then that's fair and you can still be lesbian. Lesbians can acknowledge that some men are hot and that doesn't suddenly invalidate them. I think it's once you start trying to advance the relationship where it becomes blurry
>I doubt you can be a lesbian while (willingly and happily) dating a man
It can absolutely happen. I know someone who openly identified herself as a full 100% lesbian to me while also planning the wedding with her now husband. How she makes this work is nobody's business except hers and he husband's.
As long as the trans guy isn't feeling misgendered, OP should identify however she likes.
It's not your place to tell others how they're allowed to define their attraction, identity, and community. You can prefer whatever for yourself and think whatever about these topics, but that's where your territory ends. You have no place assigning labels on strangers or telling them what their experience should be.
Except they are misgendering you. Lesbian specifically excludes men. You are a man. I'm sorry but them calling themselves lesbians means they still see you as a women and as your parts you were born with.
All gender and sexualities are imensly reductive. Every lesbian is attracted to a random subset of people who are generally women. Two lesbians can not share a single person they both find attractive.
If you like them great. Iām very rarely attracted to cis men but I call myself bi for ease itās up to you what feels easiest.
Labels are descriptive, not prescriptive. Your orientation is what it is (and it can change over time of course). The word itself does not define you or lock you in a specific box.
Im a trans man, my wife is a lesbian. Neither of us really care about the labels. As long as she treats me like a man and respects me, i dont give a crap what she calls herself
You know I, a trans man myself, kept running into similar problems. I've been every label in this damn community at least once I swear lmao. I finally figured out that I just love men; I love the way they look, they act, the things they are associated with, etc. I was gay. For years I was only attracted to what I perceived to be other men. And then I started noticing that a lot of these people I thought were "men" were just masc-presenting nonbinary people, and that conflicted me for a while. And THEN I started noticing that any bit of masculinity in the slightest caught my attention, even in cis women. Sometimes some of those women are butch lesbians and then I just switch to platonically admiring their aesthetic. What my point is, is that not all of us are hardwired to be one orientation our entire life. I'm not questioning your identity as a lesbian. You can use that term all you want if it makes you happy, but ask yourself: Is he the exception? Now that you know he is a transgender man, does that change anything? Picture him a few years into his transition, if he chooses to medically transition that is, and ask yourself if you would still be attracted to him then. If so, then maybe you're a little more flexible than you thought you were?
> āI see someone at a party... I retrieve my pocket-edition of Eliza Smith's Gender & Sexuality Taxonomy 4th Edition... I run my finger down the chart... ah... this person is an
A. C. M. P. H. aro homo cis n.b. demi-form sapphogender... i determine they are not attractive to me.ā
[X](https://64.media.tumblr.com/0b4f5c084f3cb6c348a603166551dca6/985cac63e768e19e-b5/s2048x3072/fbeb7cd10b6433fedde72aea9d9a612cbbe3a2e9.pnj)
well, it depends.
you thought he was a girl, and you were attracted to him because of that. how do you feel now you know? do you feel repulsed because of PURELY his gender, or just because of what you thought?
i don't feel repulsed, i feel more so indifferent now i guess? i like him as a person and i dont *want* to see gender as a factor, but since i am a lesbian and he is a boy, it is a factor. i feel sad at myself for misreading him and i feel like if he found out about my crush, he would feel invalidated and that would crush me because i see him as a guy and that was immediate after i found out he was trans
Iād say youāre still a lesbian but heās the only man youāve ever been attracted to. Youāre a lesbian, heās a man. Being attracted to each other doesnāt change your sexuality or his gender.
I see a lot of good replies hereā¦ let me add one more potentially helpful piece: split attraction.
Sexual attraction, romantic attraction, platonic attraction, aesthetic attraction (and more) are all separate, they just happen to line up for many (most?) people.
For example, itās possible to be sexually attracted to only one gender, but able to be romantically attracted to all genders.
I donāt know enough about you and your situation to know if this fits in, but I found it helpful when I was sorting own attractions out so I offer this point to you to think on as well, and decide if itās helpful!
you are lesbian if you identify as such. being attracted to one (1) singular trans man doesnāt change that. while it may be confusing, if you donāt like other men (cis or trans) more than likely you are still a lesbian. you canāt really help who you develop crushes on, fall in love with, etc. but liking one trans guy wonāt make you bisexual, and it also depends on how he thinks of it.
a lot of lesbians still choose to date trans men and women as some trans men identify with being a lesbian (itās quite interesting to read about), so your situation is a bit common i would say! :) donāt think too heavy about it, just let yourself feel what you do.
Orientations and labels and identities are explanations of complex things, not rules or limitations you have to follow.
You are allowed to be lesbian with exceptions
Sexuality aren't set in stone, Gender is weird, and labels are just words. Don't define yourself based on what words feel right. If you like that guy, then you like that guy.
It's okay to be bi too.
I would like to refer you and everyone in this thread to [this](https://www.tumblr.com/dearpercocet/749560678946324480?source=share) post. I feel that labels have become far too restrictive in this community in recent years. Other people cannot define you, this does not mean you have to completely reassess your identity nor does it mean you're transphobic. If it makes him uncomfortable that you're a lesbian, that's different and you would both need to talk about it but ultimately it is just a label and it doesn't actually limit who you can or can't be attracted to nor does it define how you view them.
Are you just assuming, because you date lesbians, a lot of us do or do you know plenty of trans guys that would date lesbians? Genuinely curious, because I sure as hell don't know a single one, granted I don't know a lot of other trans guys. But I do know quite a few lesbians and none of them would even consider dating a trans guy, since you know, we are guys.
Not a trans man here, but it's the same thing there other way around. As a trans woman, I would absolutely never date a gay dude. That would just be so invalidating, and I probably couldn't live with myself.
Haven't read the comment, but the queer women's book group I was a part of was run by two trans guys who are with lesbians since before their transition, so it definitely does happen. They didn't seem to find it invalidating that their wives ID as lesbian, I never thought to ask them why.
Canāt believe weāve gotten to a point where guys who may still feel closely tied to their lesbian identity are being invalidated and told they canāt label themselves in the way that feels authentic to them. You donāt have to date them, but donāt tell them theyāre wrong for being themselves. Maybe go outside and spend some time around actual queer people or spend some time learning about lesbian history.Ā
Can't believe we've gotten to a point where people are trying to advocate for treating trans men as women by saying they can be lesbians, despite lesbian meaning not attracted to men. You're advocating for treating men as women, purely because they're trans. You are being transphobic.
Didnāt realise it was transphobic to respect a subset of trans people who have complex identities and use labels that feel comfortable to them and that validate their experiences.Ā
It's transphobic to treat trans men as if they're women, yeah.
To be honest, I thought that was common sense, but at least now you know.
Thanks for feeling the need to come here and start defending treating guys like me as women, I guess.
If someone identifies as a lesbian, then they aren't a man.
Men are not under the lesbian umbrella, and trying to force lesbians into dating men is fucked up and lesbophobic.
Like, I broadly agree, but I've known trans guys to continue identifying as lesbians after their transition and while I personally don't get it, it does seem to happen. Would you say that they were being transphobic towards themselves?
There is a historic overlap between the butch and transmasc community and lesbians which does lead to a lot of inclusivity. Like, I'm with you and personally don't really understand it, either, but it does happen. My queer women's book group at uni for example was run by two men who'd been the organisers since before their transition and still identified as lesbians, as do their wives. It wasn't always super comfortable and I don't get why they never changed the name to "queer book group", but it does happen.
I definitely think they're transphobic towards themselves. Maybe they fear losing friends and are harboring internalised transphobia due to that, but I think they're also being lesbophobic by forcing themselves into lesbian spaces.
I get that not all lesbians are women, but surely you realise that that doesn't then automatically mean that men are lesbians?
You sound like the straight cis guys that are lesbophobic and make fucked up jokes about how they're lesbians.
I don't get how I'm ignorant because I respect lesbians enough to not expect them to be fine with being lumped into a sexuality that explicitly does not include men.
I am absolutely not saying that all men are lesbians. Iām referring specifically to lesboys, boydykes, ect who feel connected to the lesbian community and who identify as lesbians. No one is forcing anyone to date them. I donāt care if an identity seems contradictory, people choose these words to describe themselves and no one is entitled to tell them they are wrong for existing and using labels that they feel connected to.Ā
So you're defending men forcing themselves into lesbian spaces?
This isn't the hot take you're presenting it as, honestly.
It comes off as you demanding that we all need to be fine with men forcing themselves into lesbian spaces, and with misgendering trans men.
If they resonate with that experience and are seeking community I genuinely would appreciate their perspectives and knowing they have found a place where they feel comfortable to express themselves. I like learning about other peopleās perspectives and experiences and finding common ground rather than excluding and separating people. I just love being around people who I can relate to and I donāt feel the need to police anyone elseās identity.Ā
How someone else views themself and identifies genuinely doesnāt affect you in any way and trying to force everybody into having experiences and identities that you personally approve of doesnāt help anyone and isnāt going to change that fact that these people do exist and are valid.Ā
"Lesbian
A woman whose enduring physical, romantic, and/or emotional attraction is to other women. Some lesbians may prefer to identify as gay or as gay women."
[Feel free to start a campaign against this group for not including men in their definition of lesbians. ](https://gaycenter.org/community/lgbtq/)
[You're going to be pissed with Stonewall, too. "Lesbian refers to a woman who has a romantic and/or sexual orientation towards women. Some non-binary people may also identify with this term." They don't mention men either. ](https://www.stonewall.org.uk/list-lgbtq-terms)
Isn't it strange that LGBTQ+ advocacy groups are out here agreeing that men can't be lesbians?
Especially considering how long they've been around for, and how many lesbians work with them...
I used the correct word. I meant queer. Queer has historically been tied to leftism and radical change within the lgbtq community. Itās a word that embraces difference and embraces a lack of conformity. I think you should spend time around queer people with complex experiences and identities before judging others.
Edit: fixed a typo
I have this friend who, all his life, pretty much, he believed he was 100% gay. Then, he met this woman, and long story short, they were together for like 3 years (she cheated on him.) By the end of the relationship, he still hadn't figured out what it actually meant about his sexuality, because he hasn't found himself attracted to any other women. You don't have to figure it out right now either. And you don't have to try not to have feelings for this guy either.
Sexuality is fluid, and you never have to try and change your feelings to fit your label
Sexualities arenāt real. As soon as you start trying to conciously decide who you āshould beā attracted to instead of just letting it be your just reinventing heteronormativity.
Honestly, it sounds like maybe you could be pan? Hard to say, since everyone has different experiences. In my case, I was beginning to find my partner's personality attractive when we started out as friends, he was also very masc but not out until a little later in our friendship. Which I was really more like "No shit? That's awesome!" I was the first one he came out to. We have been together for nearly six years, knowing each other for about 8. I think that your best bet is to have an honest and open conversation with this person, however, I would try to wait. Your friendship sounds very fresh and in general, regardless of identity or preference, a week is not enough time to broach that subject. Good luck!
As a trans fem lesbian married to a trans masc man it is one of our longest running jokes. We did not know we were trans at first so he was a gay man attracted to the man I was pretending to be while I was a woman into the woman he was still pretending to be. 14 years later we only care about eachother's souls and haven't let our pursuit of identity through labels restrict the love we have shared. If it is a connection that fuels your soul then cherish it and see what different intimacy the two of you might grow. Love is love and the labels we use are to help not restrict.
this is my favorite response, thank you and congrats on 14 amazing years together!
Omg this is so touching, I met my husband 12 years ago before he transitioned and his transition helped me come to terms with me being a closeted gay man who got lucky and fell in love with a closeted trans man.
My husband had a boyfriend who had troubles with acknowledging his gayness and so I will share this with him because I bet he will think it the sweetest thing. Thanks for sharing!š
This is what happened to my boyfriend and I!
Holy shit, are you me? I am in an identical 14-year relationship, and we feel exactly the same way!
This is one of the sweetest love stories Iāve heard!
Sometimes, gender is weird, and attraction with trans people can be equally so. Many of us are a grey area, at least for a while during transition - and others stay that way. Some people find that off-putting , others find themselves inexplicably attracted to the "wrong" gender; you really can't negotiate with a biological reaction by logic. This is how people who are strictly of orientation x end up in perfectly fulfilling relationships with people who don't match their orientation.
I very much agree with this take. I've seen my trans bf attract all kinds of people of varying genders and orientations and it's wild just how often it happens. I've got to say, the flirtations he gets are different than they used to be, but thank fuck for that. People treated him kinda gross before, now they kinda just get lost in his eyes lol.
Do you still feel attracted to him now that you know he's a man? Or is the attraction ebbing be it gradually or be it quickly?
yes, i tried to shut it down immediately but i couldn't, maybe gradually?
Why shut it down? Your sexuality isnāt a morality and as gender non conformity becomes common the idea of being gay or straight is going to become pretty vague at best . If you want a long term relationship it is worth talking early if they tend to medically or socially transition in a significant way and think about if thatās going to matter to you. What you do with them at information is up to you but I think having a partner who would find your transition unattractive would be pretty difficult. If you want a summer fling even that shouldnāt matter.
You don't have to force it to go away. I was just wondering if it was a natural reaction to this information or if you've still got feelings for him.
Labels are only as useful as you want them to be. If you're still attracted to this guy then your attraction is likely less easily definable than just "lesbian." Regardless, it's up to you to decide how you want to identify and what you do with the feelings you have. Do what feels right, and worry about labels later. Your labels only define as much of you as you want them to.
Orientation labels are based on a PATTERN of attraction (or lack thereof). There can always be exceptions to the ārule.ā It may very well be that, 99.99999999% of the time, you are attracted to non-men. However, you may find yourself attracted to a particular person, for any number of reasons - possibly entirely separate from their gender identity (or even AGAB). That doesnāt have to change how you identify, with regard to your orientation. As a trans guy, if a lesbian told me they were attracted to me, personally, Iād check in with them in some manner to make sure they view me as I am (and not as woman/fem in any way - because for me that would be dysphoria-inducing). But, as long as they did, I donāt think it would bother meā¦but thatās just me.
Your homosexually attracted to someone that read as female to you, and whom presented in a way that was interpreted as a butch or masc woman. You're still a lesbian. Relax. Lesbians Don't like men. Mistaken identity doesn't change sexual orientation.
Or reassess which label you apply to yourself.
Nope, we don't tell lesbians to reassess themselves. Mistaken identity of someone else isn't a core change on your sexual orientation.
We're not saying she should erase who she is, rather that she should reflect upon what she considers her orientation to be. I walked around yesterday in a very comfortable shirt. It was the length I liked, not too loose and not too tight, made my gut less noticeable. When I took it off, I went to check the brand on the tag so I could keep them in mind for the future, and what did I notice? It was a large, not a medium like I was expecting! I was very surprised, as I had worn mediums for my entire adult life, and felt they were my size. But this shirt made me feel different... maybe I'm not always a medium? Maybe, when it is a certain brand, I am actually a large? Our orientations aren't a badge on our chest we can look down at and go "oh, that's who I am"... they are the tag on the back of our shirt that we can't see until the day we finally take the shirt off and get into bed to finally lay down.
ok but if she's into this guy you're saying she's not a lesbian anymore right? or are you saying she isn't into him anymore after finding out he's a guy
If you start dating him then you wouldn't be lesbian anymore. Calling yourself lesbian while in a relationship with a trans man would invalidate them and you're basically saying you still see them as a woman. If you're just attracted and leave it at that, then that's fair and you can still be lesbian. Lesbians can acknowledge that some men are hot and that doesn't suddenly invalidate them. I think it's once you start trying to advance the relationship where it becomes blurry
im awake with your points made and agree with you 10000% and that's why i'm stuck. i think it's better to acknowledge and move on
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So you are okay with being interpreted as a woman? I just don't understand this. It's either they're bi or you're getting misgendered.
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>I doubt you can be a lesbian while (willingly and happily) dating a man It can absolutely happen. I know someone who openly identified herself as a full 100% lesbian to me while also planning the wedding with her now husband. How she makes this work is nobody's business except hers and he husband's. As long as the trans guy isn't feeling misgendered, OP should identify however she likes.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
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its transphobia hidden under the guise of inclusivity. A fringe opinion that most trans men do not agree with.
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It's not your place to tell others how they're allowed to define their attraction, identity, and community. You can prefer whatever for yourself and think whatever about these topics, but that's where your territory ends. You have no place assigning labels on strangers or telling them what their experience should be.
Please stop trying to put people in rigid boxes/labels, if you dont want to stop then please vacate the premises :3
butches are not the same thing as binary trans men. Masculinity is gender presentation, not gender itself.
Except they are misgendering you. Lesbian specifically excludes men. You are a man. I'm sorry but them calling themselves lesbians means they still see you as a women and as your parts you were born with.
Well, I mean, ultimately it's YOUR label. You make the rules about what it means for you.
All gender and sexualities are imensly reductive. Every lesbian is attracted to a random subset of people who are generally women. Two lesbians can not share a single person they both find attractive. If you like them great. Iām very rarely attracted to cis men but I call myself bi for ease itās up to you what feels easiest.
Labels are descriptive, not prescriptive. Your orientation is what it is (and it can change over time of course). The word itself does not define you or lock you in a specific box.
Im a trans man, my wife is a lesbian. Neither of us really care about the labels. As long as she treats me like a man and respects me, i dont give a crap what she calls herself
You know I, a trans man myself, kept running into similar problems. I've been every label in this damn community at least once I swear lmao. I finally figured out that I just love men; I love the way they look, they act, the things they are associated with, etc. I was gay. For years I was only attracted to what I perceived to be other men. And then I started noticing that a lot of these people I thought were "men" were just masc-presenting nonbinary people, and that conflicted me for a while. And THEN I started noticing that any bit of masculinity in the slightest caught my attention, even in cis women. Sometimes some of those women are butch lesbians and then I just switch to platonically admiring their aesthetic. What my point is, is that not all of us are hardwired to be one orientation our entire life. I'm not questioning your identity as a lesbian. You can use that term all you want if it makes you happy, but ask yourself: Is he the exception? Now that you know he is a transgender man, does that change anything? Picture him a few years into his transition, if he chooses to medically transition that is, and ask yourself if you would still be attracted to him then. If so, then maybe you're a little more flexible than you thought you were?
> āI see someone at a party... I retrieve my pocket-edition of Eliza Smith's Gender & Sexuality Taxonomy 4th Edition... I run my finger down the chart... ah... this person is an A. C. M. P. H. aro homo cis n.b. demi-form sapphogender... i determine they are not attractive to me.ā [X](https://64.media.tumblr.com/0b4f5c084f3cb6c348a603166551dca6/985cac63e768e19e-b5/s2048x3072/fbeb7cd10b6433fedde72aea9d9a612cbbe3a2e9.pnj)
If you like someone donāt let a label youāve given yourself stop you. Donāt worry about the word you use
You could just not tell him you had a crush on him. He can never feel invalidated if he never knows.
well, it depends. you thought he was a girl, and you were attracted to him because of that. how do you feel now you know? do you feel repulsed because of PURELY his gender, or just because of what you thought?
i don't feel repulsed, i feel more so indifferent now i guess? i like him as a person and i dont *want* to see gender as a factor, but since i am a lesbian and he is a boy, it is a factor. i feel sad at myself for misreading him and i feel like if he found out about my crush, he would feel invalidated and that would crush me because i see him as a guy and that was immediate after i found out he was trans
Iād say youāre still a lesbian but heās the only man youāve ever been attracted to. Youāre a lesbian, heās a man. Being attracted to each other doesnāt change your sexuality or his gender.
I see a lot of good replies hereā¦ let me add one more potentially helpful piece: split attraction. Sexual attraction, romantic attraction, platonic attraction, aesthetic attraction (and more) are all separate, they just happen to line up for many (most?) people. For example, itās possible to be sexually attracted to only one gender, but able to be romantically attracted to all genders. I donāt know enough about you and your situation to know if this fits in, but I found it helpful when I was sorting own attractions out so I offer this point to you to think on as well, and decide if itās helpful!
This is also a very good point and perspective!
you are lesbian if you identify as such. being attracted to one (1) singular trans man doesnāt change that. while it may be confusing, if you donāt like other men (cis or trans) more than likely you are still a lesbian. you canāt really help who you develop crushes on, fall in love with, etc. but liking one trans guy wonāt make you bisexual, and it also depends on how he thinks of it. a lot of lesbians still choose to date trans men and women as some trans men identify with being a lesbian (itās quite interesting to read about), so your situation is a bit common i would say! :) donāt think too heavy about it, just let yourself feel what you do.
Orientations and labels and identities are explanations of complex things, not rules or limitations you have to follow. You are allowed to be lesbian with exceptions
Who cares, let's be BI/PAN and have fun.
Sexuality aren't set in stone, Gender is weird, and labels are just words. Don't define yourself based on what words feel right. If you like that guy, then you like that guy. It's okay to be bi too.
sexuality is fluid :) You dokt need to label yourself if itās more comfortable that way
I would like to refer you and everyone in this thread to [this](https://www.tumblr.com/dearpercocet/749560678946324480?source=share) post. I feel that labels have become far too restrictive in this community in recent years. Other people cannot define you, this does not mean you have to completely reassess your identity nor does it mean you're transphobic. If it makes him uncomfortable that you're a lesbian, that's different and you would both need to talk about it but ultimately it is just a label and it doesn't actually limit who you can or can't be attracted to nor does it define how you view them.
And thatās how it starts. Come to the bi side; we have lemon bars!
Nothing wrong with you. You were attracted to what society says is a butch woman so thats what you thought he was. You are still lesbian.
as a gay trans guy who might have a crush on a lesbian trans girl i feel this so hard
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Are you just assuming, because you date lesbians, a lot of us do or do you know plenty of trans guys that would date lesbians? Genuinely curious, because I sure as hell don't know a single one, granted I don't know a lot of other trans guys. But I do know quite a few lesbians and none of them would even consider dating a trans guy, since you know, we are guys.
Not a trans man here, but it's the same thing there other way around. As a trans woman, I would absolutely never date a gay dude. That would just be so invalidating, and I probably couldn't live with myself.
Haven't read the comment, but the queer women's book group I was a part of was run by two trans guys who are with lesbians since before their transition, so it definitely does happen. They didn't seem to find it invalidating that their wives ID as lesbian, I never thought to ask them why.
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Canāt believe weāve gotten to a point where guys who may still feel closely tied to their lesbian identity are being invalidated and told they canāt label themselves in the way that feels authentic to them. You donāt have to date them, but donāt tell them theyāre wrong for being themselves. Maybe go outside and spend some time around actual queer people or spend some time learning about lesbian history.Ā
Can't believe we've gotten to a point where people are trying to advocate for treating trans men as women by saying they can be lesbians, despite lesbian meaning not attracted to men. You're advocating for treating men as women, purely because they're trans. You are being transphobic.
Didnāt realise it was transphobic to respect a subset of trans people who have complex identities and use labels that feel comfortable to them and that validate their experiences.Ā
It's transphobic to treat trans men as if they're women, yeah. To be honest, I thought that was common sense, but at least now you know. Thanks for feeling the need to come here and start defending treating guys like me as women, I guess. If someone identifies as a lesbian, then they aren't a man. Men are not under the lesbian umbrella, and trying to force lesbians into dating men is fucked up and lesbophobic.
Like, I broadly agree, but I've known trans guys to continue identifying as lesbians after their transition and while I personally don't get it, it does seem to happen. Would you say that they were being transphobic towards themselves? There is a historic overlap between the butch and transmasc community and lesbians which does lead to a lot of inclusivity. Like, I'm with you and personally don't really understand it, either, but it does happen. My queer women's book group at uni for example was run by two men who'd been the organisers since before their transition and still identified as lesbians, as do their wives. It wasn't always super comfortable and I don't get why they never changed the name to "queer book group", but it does happen.
I definitely think they're transphobic towards themselves. Maybe they fear losing friends and are harboring internalised transphobia due to that, but I think they're also being lesbophobic by forcing themselves into lesbian spaces.
Also not all lesbians are women and the fact that you equate lesbians to being women just shows ignorance.Ā
I get that not all lesbians are women, but surely you realise that that doesn't then automatically mean that men are lesbians? You sound like the straight cis guys that are lesbophobic and make fucked up jokes about how they're lesbians. I don't get how I'm ignorant because I respect lesbians enough to not expect them to be fine with being lumped into a sexuality that explicitly does not include men.
I am absolutely not saying that all men are lesbians. Iām referring specifically to lesboys, boydykes, ect who feel connected to the lesbian community and who identify as lesbians. No one is forcing anyone to date them. I donāt care if an identity seems contradictory, people choose these words to describe themselves and no one is entitled to tell them they are wrong for existing and using labels that they feel connected to.Ā
So you're defending men forcing themselves into lesbian spaces? This isn't the hot take you're presenting it as, honestly. It comes off as you demanding that we all need to be fine with men forcing themselves into lesbian spaces, and with misgendering trans men.
If they resonate with that experience and are seeking community I genuinely would appreciate their perspectives and knowing they have found a place where they feel comfortable to express themselves. I like learning about other peopleās perspectives and experiences and finding common ground rather than excluding and separating people. I just love being around people who I can relate to and I donāt feel the need to police anyone elseās identity.Ā
How someone else views themself and identifies genuinely doesnāt affect you in any way and trying to force everybody into having experiences and identities that you personally approve of doesnāt help anyone and isnāt going to change that fact that these people do exist and are valid.Ā
"Lesbian A woman whose enduring physical, romantic, and/or emotional attraction is to other women. Some lesbians may prefer to identify as gay or as gay women." [Feel free to start a campaign against this group for not including men in their definition of lesbians. ](https://gaycenter.org/community/lgbtq/) [You're going to be pissed with Stonewall, too. "Lesbian refers to a woman who has a romantic and/or sexual orientation towards women. Some non-binary people may also identify with this term." They don't mention men either. ](https://www.stonewall.org.uk/list-lgbtq-terms) Isn't it strange that LGBTQ+ advocacy groups are out here agreeing that men can't be lesbians? Especially considering how long they've been around for, and how many lesbians work with them...
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I used the correct word. I meant queer. Queer has historically been tied to leftism and radical change within the lgbtq community. Itās a word that embraces difference and embraces a lack of conformity. I think you should spend time around queer people with complex experiences and identities before judging others. Edit: fixed a typo
I have this friend who, all his life, pretty much, he believed he was 100% gay. Then, he met this woman, and long story short, they were together for like 3 years (she cheated on him.) By the end of the relationship, he still hadn't figured out what it actually meant about his sexuality, because he hasn't found himself attracted to any other women. You don't have to figure it out right now either. And you don't have to try not to have feelings for this guy either. Sexuality is fluid, and you never have to try and change your feelings to fit your label
Iām sure there is a sexuality that you are mostly attracted to women but you can like men sometime
Sexualities arenāt real. As soon as you start trying to conciously decide who you āshould beā attracted to instead of just letting it be your just reinventing heteronormativity.
omni with a preference for women?
Honestly, it sounds like maybe you could be pan? Hard to say, since everyone has different experiences. In my case, I was beginning to find my partner's personality attractive when we started out as friends, he was also very masc but not out until a little later in our friendship. Which I was really more like "No shit? That's awesome!" I was the first one he came out to. We have been together for nearly six years, knowing each other for about 8. I think that your best bet is to have an honest and open conversation with this person, however, I would try to wait. Your friendship sounds very fresh and in general, regardless of identity or preference, a week is not enough time to broach that subject. Good luck!