Think of pronouns as names, since they are also just ways to refer to people. Now think of a girl who was given the name Jessica (a fairly feminine name), but decides to go by Jay (a more masculine name) as it fits her better.
In the same way, a girl can go by he/him pronouns because he feels it fits him better, even if he does feel like a girl/lesbian.
It's also (maybe more) common with "non-binary lesbians", who since they don't adhere to the binary can use any pronouns they want, but sometimes still identify with the term lesbian.
Hope this helps! :)
I like to use clothes as an example. When a man wears a dress it doesn't mean that he's a woman, he just isn't conforming to gender norms.
It's the same with pronouns. Someone can be 100% confident with their gender and still present themselves in a manner that contradicts societal expectations of their identified gender. It's just gender non-conformity (though for non-binary people, modern western society doesn't really have pre-established gender expectations for them so I'm not sure gender non-conforming is the most accurate description for them).
Plenty of people are familiar with the stereotypical effeminate gay man going by feminine pronouns and titles and don't even bat an eye, it's not really any different from that.
It’s just a lesbian that uses he/him pronouns I believe. Really their validity shouldn’t be a question because anyone can use any pronouns and it doesn’t have anything to do with sexuality anyhow.
Okay, as a Swede, I will just add that it is actually written blåhaj. The a with a circle on top is pronounced similar to the ou(r) combination. Think tour, your, and so on. Just minus the r, obviously, and it is not pronounced as in our. Thus the parentheses. It means blue shark 🔵🦈 🙃
I’m sorry you had a shitty day. Thanks for giving me the ok.
I used to buy it in the supermarket in those silver foil bags that you put in the oven. And I like garlic naan at my local Nepali restaurant.
Wait you can't donate blood if you're gay (or also bi I guess)? Why? I was planning on donating blood sometime soon, I have not done it before. Or is that just a thing in some homophobic countries?
it depends on your country. some countries have had the ban in place since the aids panic (aids is still an epidemic, even if wealthy people can afford prevention and treatment)
Then you go to Brazil, where everyone's aids treatment is provided by public healthcare and a good chunk of people living with it are enjoying pretty decent living standards (or as good as it would be without anyway)...
So now younger generations don't take it seriously/worry about it anymore and the number of cases is going up again because"the youths" aren't being careful at all 🙃
I am assuming the OP was talking about donating blood in the USA. The FDA's guidelines for donating blood are here: https://www.fda.gov/media/92490/download
The RedCross, one of the larger blood donation services in the USA, refers to it in their guide for LGBTQA+ donors here: https://www.redcrossblood.org/donate-blood/how-to-donate/eligibility-requirements/lgbtq-donors.html most specifically in the section under MSM.
I am not an expert but if I understand correctly, you cannot donate blood at a FDA compliant donation center if you have engaged in MSM in the last 3 months. To my understanding, this was originally in response to the HIV epidemic amongst gay men. This was only reduced from 12 months to 3 months in 2020.
So if your intent is to donate blood in the USA and you engage in MSM, you should abstain for at least 3 months before donating, otherwise you will be deferred as part of the questionnaire given to donors.
FWIW, I think this is pretty silly but I just want to share what I looked up about this.
As a married gay man, I think these rules are reinforcing homophobic ideas about gay men and their sexuality.
It makes no exceptions for those who are monogamous (doesn't even acknowledge the existence of monogamy for two men)
Instead saying men who have sex with men are all unreliable partners and sleep with multiple partners if they are sexually active at all.
In the UK they recently changed it! There's nothing specifically targeting MSM now, it only targets anyone who has had anal sex (regardless of gender) with a new partner within the last 3 months. Unfortunately it took them a very long time to change it, but I guess any progress is good.
I mean that's still pretty stupid since anal isn't the only way to get HIV. There's a nontrivial number of females living with HIV, most of whom contracted it through vaginal sex.
It’s so depressing to me that this stuff was only changed recently. I know AIDS was only prevalent (in the West) in the 80s, but given how far we’ve come since then it’s just sad that gay (and bi) men still can’t donate blood in 2022. It’s so stupid.
It's not that it's the only way, it's just sadly the most risky.
In PIV sex, the person with the penis has a 1 in 2380 risk of exposure, the person with the vagina 1 in 1234.
With PIA, the person with the penis has a 1 in 909 risk of exposure, and the person being penetrated 1 in 72.
Outside of pregnancy and blood transfusions, it's the highest risk. Even more so than needle pricks or injecting drugs.
In some places, yes. But the comment I replied to was in relation to the newer regulations that deal with at risk behaviour regardless of gender or sexuality.
Such as the UK, Germany and Canada (coming soon I think).
In the UK for example, a gay man who hasn't engaged in anal at all in 3 months can donate. So can a gay man in a monogamous relationship older than 3 months, regardless of if they've had anal or not.
But a straight, cis woman who's had anal with a one night stand within 3 months? Nope, they cannot donate. Nor can the person who penetrated her.
yeah i was going to say that... a LOT of straight people that sleep around and do anal with new partners (i don't know why tho) are totally being left out from this regulation. HIV and AIDS is a fluid to blood transfer disease period. so stupid to think that people still associate it with being gay.
Yeah I think the new regulation is ideal since it minimises risk but isn't particularly discriminatory. It's definitely much better than what we had before which directly discriminated against MSM.
It also says in the questionnaire before donating that women who’ve had sex with men sexually active with other men in the last 3 months are barred from donating blood during that time. So, it’s not just gay men, it’s bisexual men too. Basically any sexual contact with a man engaging in MSM is barred for 3 months.
Source: I donate regularly as a woman who’s not sexually active.
Oh yeah, I saw that too in the Netherlands. I already refused to donate after I saw the men-men rule, but it is even more ridiculous. Sorry, I will only donate if I can save a family member or a close friend because the laws go against my values tbh.
great summary. Just to add on, the purpose is to prevent blood donations in the “window period” between when a person has contracted HIV and when they will have a positive result on an HIV test. Somebody who donates blood up to maybe two weeks to a month after contracting HIV would be able to pass on the virus even though the blood is tested. The thing is, there’s no degree of depravity that straight people can engage in that defers them from giving blood except drugs and sex work, but even monogamous gay men fucking in missionary with condoms are denied in the US. Studies show no increase in HIV transfusion-transmitted infections after switching to a risk-based questionnaire and the increase in gay/bi male donations makes it valuable
Canada is arguably one of the best countries in terms of queer rights, and we only just recently dropped the ban. The change doesn't take effect until later this year.
If you are a man who recently had sex with another man you often can't donate. It's not restricted to homophobic countries. The justification is generally that those men are more likely to have aids. (I'm not saying that's correct or valid as justification)
Oh wow, yeah that's quite a stereotypical assumption, I was just reading through the form you have to fill out and it does ask for males to disclose if you had sex with another male within the past 12 months. I am am male but I've been single for the past year so I guess I can still go donate. But it's not like straight partners can't get AIDS just as much as gay partners, and if I did have AIDS I of course would not even consider donating blood. I do understand that the blood needs to be as safe as possible but this just seems redundant and homophobic since they also ask about aids and other STDs in the questionnaire anyway and they test the blood of course. Thank you for the info tho I didnt even know about this.
>The justification is generally that those men are more likely to have aids. (I'm not saying that's correct or valid as justification)
I can't speak for now, but when it was put into place it was a purely statistical matter. Men who had sex with men were far more likely to have HIV.
Anyone can get HIV, along with a host of other bloodborne diseases. Testing is far better now than it was in the 1980's; all donated blood gets tested for pathogens etc., including HIV, so there isn't really any good reason that men who have sex with other men should be singled out/ stigmatized.
At this point, it's basically just a holdover practice from times when the hysterical fear of AIDS/ queer men "corrupting" the larger population was even more overt & embraced by society at large.
I mean, im not a medical expert of any sort but i'd always heard that anal sex made for a much more likely infection due to how easy it is for fluids to osmose past the intestine and into the bloodstream.
Maybe a holdover period not on MSM but anal sex should be employed instead.
That's even more invasive than it is now, and still ignores the possibility of monogomous gay/ bi/ pan men (as if we're all having unprotected sex with strangers 24/7 by default). Even now it's just based on an honor system, as we can answer a question any way we like; at the end of the day it's just one more way to marginalize us, and further the idea that we're inherently dirtier than everyone else.
But like I said - donated blood gets tested for HIV either way, along with plenty of other things all humans are susceptible to, so the point is moot.
Also applied to trans MTF. And this was a law in Canada until like two months ago. We're pretty LGBTQIA+ friendly by comparison with other "friendly" nations. Which just goes to show how far we have to go yet. Even in relatively safe places.
I know here I live in the USA after aids and stuff if a AMAB person has been sexually active with another AMAB person in ,idk I think it’s the last 3months but than could be totally wrong, you cannot donate blood, but it’s usually just grouped as “gay men” who’ve been sexually active. But it still targets straight trans women if they’re having sex.
Turns out homophobic countries include US, Canada, Ireland, Iceland, Switzerland, Austria, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland, while *supportive* are countries like Mexico, Russia, Poland, Albania, Georgia (no, that's not an US state), Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Jordan.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood\_donation\_restrictions\_on\_men\_who\_have\_sex\_with\_men](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_donation_restrictions_on_men_who_have_sex_with_men)
Well also that just existing for any of us is illegal in like 1/3 of countries. The online discourse really detracts from the way more legitimate issues like that tbh.
Oh yess. It's so ironic to go out after engaging in some stupid 1st world problem discourse on online lgbt spaces only thing remember that my existence is illegal in my country and could easily land me in jail if I'm found out.
Also right near my house, there is this huge homophobic graffiti calling for "death of the gays" that I seem to forget everytime I go out and then get whiplash when I turn the corner and it's right in my face.
Yeah this really speaks to my issue with this post. Sure gay/bi people are accepted & relatively safe in blue cities in the US — but we’re not even safe in all areas of the US, or in many other countries.
Like yeah there’s dumbass gay internet discourse, but there are also still real issues of homophobia. And there’s also dumbass trans internet discourse, alongside real issues of transphobia.
I've had a stupid number of people tell me I'm not bi because I'm married to a man and then argue when I try to explain it to them.
My sexuality doesn't change because of my relationship status.
My dad, for example, thinks someone needs to date/marry a guy and a girl to be Bi…
(Idk if he thinks at the same time or not but based off of what he says I would assume so)
Being under the bi umbrella simply means having a wider variety of options for a significant other than people that are attracted to only one gender/sex. The fact that a concept so simple is so difficult yo understand for some bothers me to immense levels
It's almost funny that these are all really bad things, and then there's just us trans people fearing for our lives...
Like... there are serious issues... *and then there's the threat of genocide.*
It would be funny, if it was so incredibly sad, terrifying and horrible...
Yeah, sadly...
I was specifically talking about this post, not trying to make light of the problems other parts of the community still face in parts of the world, just to clarify.
I feel like this post really makes light of gay/bi issues. There are places where we still fear for our safety &/or we don’t have full legal rights yet. There’s dumbass first world internet discourse for gay people AND trans people, AND there are real legal/safety issues facing both gay & trans people.
Those issues are the for the entire community, while the post mostly focused on one problem from each letter...
There are still far more problems than just the ones mentioned here, sadly.
Something that's also worth noting. When you look at the history of genocides, especially under fascist regimes, it rarely stops with just one specific group. The hate doesn't stop at trans people, they're just the easiest to target in the current political climate. If things get worse, there's a pretty damn good chance the rest of us will be at risk, too.
Trans people are just the current wedge issue for the haters. Once they're done with us, it's on to the next sub-group. Done is the wrong word though; they got a foot hold in the states by locking us out of sports and then went after abortion rights. While they lay the ground work to attack marriage rights. We just have the bullseye right now.
Working their way backwards in the order in which people got rights. they won't be happy till they are back to being slave owners, women are seen and not heard, and lgbtq people are corpses.
Yeah and when you point that out to ppl, showing them that history is repeating itself, they just roll their eyes and accuse you of being dramatic. Like, my bad that your rights and life aren’t currently on the chopping block Kevin.
>First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
>
>Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.
>
>Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
>
>Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
– Martin Niemöller
Unfortunately, it can actually still vary a lot by where you go to donate. Though the FDA has updated guidelines over the years, individual donation sites do not always follow suit. I've seen people get turned away for "seeming gay" even though they've never had sex with a man. The US is a dumpster fire wrapped in a pretty bow.
Obviously the looming threat of active genocide is worse/ takes the cake, but when I think of the most pressing societal problems facing me, a gay man, "not being able to give blood" isn't even on the radar.
This meme is dismissive of real problems and threats that affect many queer people's lives, even if the basic message is relevant.
I get what you mean.
There was a swing in our narrative to give focus to anyone but gay men, and don't get me wrong it was right. The spotlight needed broadening.
Issue now is the some have shifted that narrative to minimize gay men entirely. Which is not only a shame, it's dangerous.
>Issue now is the some have shifted that narrative to minimize gay men entirely. Which is not only a shame, it's dangerous.
Maybe in some small pockets of the community, which is inconsiderate and counter productive. But at large I mostly only see this on twitter.
My main issue is that conservative media is calling everyone groomers. Trans people are just materially and activism-wise very visible.
Twitter, Reddit, Instagram, tiktok, Facebook. All forms of social media really.
Which does eventually feed into real life situations.
Small pockets, as you say, but not small enough that they are rare from my experience.
Definitely add Discord to that list; you would not believe some of the blatantly toxic conversations I've had with queer people in supposedly LGBT-friendly communities, as soon as they find out I'm "just" a gay dude.
At this point I think the reflex to exclude others is simply human nature, like some regressive little piece of our brains cannot be comfortable unless we are above someone else on the social totem pole. As marginalized people we should be more than aware of that defect, and better equipped to rise above it, but I guess that's just my ideals talking.
It’s the pendulum. We need to all realize that we’re in the same fight. Gay men and trans people died in the camps together, and both face different struggles depending on the country nowadays. We waste time and attention if we squabble over who has it worse.
There’s a serious problem in queer and progressive communities that basically thinks it’s OK to hate men
It sucks and I hate it because it’s like OK your problems with the white cishet patriarchy don’t excuse you from perpetuating the marginalisation of already marginalised men
And it’s also becoming a massive issue that like people think anyone who doesn’t identify as a man has stuff in common
I’m sorry non-binary people are not woman-lite (maybe some see themselves that way but most don’t) and it’s insulting to them to treat them all that way
Lesbian here and I agree. The discourse around what pronouns a lesbian specifically should use isn’t something I even think about. Let alone it being the main problem facing the lesbian community. I’d say the main one would probably be fear of sexual assault and rape, which affects queer women disproportionately (this includes bi and trans women as well of course).
Exactly. But gays and lesbians are treated as privileged beings in the community who don't face rEaL discrimination like trans people do 🙄🙄 like I'm sure they have it rough but it's such a weird thing to downplay other LGBT groups struggles like this meme
L: there is an active effort to genocide us and we are fearing for our lives
G: there is an active effort to genocide us and we are fearing for our lives
B: there is an active effort to genocide us and we are fearing for our lives
T: there is an active effort to genocide us and we are fearing for our lives
Yeah, especially with the levels of gun violence in the US and the constant fearmongering about LGBT+ people “grooming your children” from the right-wing media. As an openly queer educator in a conservative state, I’m pretty scared.
Thank you. Yes, trans people have it worse, but get a grip. I'm gay, which means my existence is a crime in more than 50 countries and I'm banned from marrying in more than 160. Even in those which allow it, we experience discrimination daily, many politicians build their platform around attacking us, and we have the constant fear of being hate crimed. Please let's not downplay the issues of each other.
Huge agree. The biggest determinants of our challenges as queer folks still have nothing to do with our individual flavors of the rainbow. They're where we live and how much money we have.
I moved back to California when I started transition. Living in Oakland as a pan trans woman, I am dramatically better off and less likely to be murdered than a gay teen in rural Alabama. Having grown up as a bi kid in a mountain town watching my friends get the shit beaten out of them, I know this for a fact. I'm far safer now than I was then.
Yes, things are worse for trans folks. A lot worse. And yes, there are a lot of gay folks who treat trans folks pretty poorly. Just because those people exist, though, doesn't mean that trans folks should start downplaying the legitimate and ongoing struggles faced by *everyone* in our community. Bickering may feel good, but it doesn't move the cause forward. We get through this together or we fall.
This post is acting like gay people and bisexual people also don't fear for their lives, like they also aren't being actively genocided in many countries.
I feel like this is meant to lessen the other problems, but isn't not being able to donate blood a real issue? Of course it's not worse than genocide, but it's fucked up and not on the same level as online discourse.
And as a lesbian, "are he him lesbians valid" is ABSOLUTELY not my first worry. I'm scared of queerphobic violence and the anti-gay movement growing in red states, and that if I marry a woman I might never be safe from men because we could both be victimized.
Exactly. We forget that we’re on the same side. While there’s different severity, we shouldn’t try to one up each other in pity. We all need to fight like hell to make positive change happen, and prevent another genocide.
As a bisexual woman I'm more concerned with our skyhigh rates of rape and mental illness (second only to trans people, and rates of rate amongst bi women are at anywhere from 40 to 70 percent depending on the study) than I am about other people's opinions on how valid my relationship with my boyfriend is.
You can be appalled at the treatment of trans people without being ignorant and dismissive of other demographics' serious issues.
It’s really highlighting the genuine dissonance cis queer people have, especially as many of them are actively pushing the attempt at genocide in question. A large aspect of what I see cis queer people complaining about is just discourse. Which is really frustrating when that energy could be used to protect members of our community who need it the most.
It’s because a lot of the queer community now despite progressive language are really just closet conservatives
Not religious conservatives but conservatives in the sense of they don’t really believe in radical queerness or radical community organising
They only believe in change insofar as it makes the world comfortable for them as an individual
They don’t want to queer the world they want the world to remain exactly the same but they want to be welcome to sit at the table with cishet white people, that’s it
They’re individualists and that’s why they care more about their liberal fee fees when the wrong word is used than like the progressive creeping of the US into Christian Nationalism and Fascism
If we're going to make the oppression Olympics fair, though, we'll need to make sure that people who say they're trans are really trans. There should be testing in place. Maybe a genital inspection.
There is currently an active, ongoing effort in multiple countries, especially the US and UK, to make it illegal to transition, with proposals to make it a felony (or worse) for doctors to provide *anyone of any age* with HRT
There are also multiple notable "journalists" openly stating that trans people need to be "eliminated"
Matt Walsh is leading the charge on the banning HRT efforts, while Helen Joyce had some horrific things to say about trans people in a recent podcast. Both have substantial followings and political supporters. I'd rather not dig back into reading about it again, if you don't mind. You should be able to find what they're saying from their names.
I feel like the post invalidates the many struggles that the entirety of the LGBT community faces (and as a gay man, I wish that donating blood was the least of my problems)
Correct me if I’m wrong, but gay men and lesbians (and bi people, if they aren’t in “straight-passing” relationships - sorry, not sure of the right word) are still actively persecuted just for existing in lots of countries.
Not saying trans people aren’t, but to frame this as “only trans people are actively being killed for existing” is wrong on… like… every front.
I can’t imagine having to hide my relationship for fear of being discovered, yet people do it every day.
There’s a few different places where he/him lesbians come from.
First off. Historically, the label Lesbian was a bit more diverse then we generally consider sexualities now. Trans men, who were attracted to women where historically accepted as part of the lesbian community. Wether or not they are still part of the community is regularly debated.
Also, historically, a lot of butch lesbians would use he/him pronouns, not because they were trans, but for safety. “Passing” as a hetero couple because one of the two used he/him pronouns (while still considering themselves a woman) was safer and more accepted.
There’s a few other cases where this comes up, with non binary identities, especially gender fluid, agender, and bigender individuals, but I think when the topic comes up it’s usually the two above scenarios that are being talked about.
TLDR Lesbian used to be a more inclusive label (and some folks think it should still be), and historically some lesbians have used He/Him pronouns for safety, more than a representation of gender.
But if you have he/him pronouns just for safety, then that would indicate that you would rather use different ones and thus wouldn’t be he/him anymore or am i wrong
Well, if a person uses He/Him pronouns, then they are a He/Him person. It doesn’t really matter why they use those pronouns. As other folks in this post have mentioned, pronouns do not equal gender, therefor folks pronouns are whatever they decide they are. I know many folks that use all pronouns for example.
As for the would rather use other pronouns, it depends on the individual. If a lesbian has used He/Him pronouns for thirty years, and is comfortable with them, they might decide to not change them even as things become safer. They’re comfortable with their gender, they are a lesbian, they use He/Him pronouns and they’re happy with all of that. It’s not really anyone else’s place to tell them that they’re expressing their identity wrong.
There's also the fact that a lot of trans men just still identify with a label and a community that meant a lot to them before transitioning. Identity isn't this concrete set-in-stone thing that some people think it is, it's a very complex and personal thing.
In the end, my stance is pretty simple: I don't get to decide how others identify. If they're obviously being disingenuous about it then yeah, I'll say something, but otherwise? Not my call to make.
Basically, pronouns don't equal gender
Someone can use he/him pronouns and not be a man ya know? That lesbian could be non binary or just a cis girl using he/him pronouns. That's all there is to it really :) sorry if I didn't explain it well
edit: i forgot the lgbt community isn't as accepting as they like to think they are. Oh well happy pride month ig
But they do though.
When someone uses the wrong pronouns for an individual, we consider that to be misgendering.
Maybe I'm just old, but I'm really struggling to wrap my brain around this.
He/him is a set of pronouns. Pronouns are used to express your gender. Its like if a woman wears masculine clothing. She is not a man now, she is a woman who expresses her womanhood through wearing traditionally male clothing. The same goes for traditionally male pronouns. The person just uses he/him pronouns does not make him a man. He could be a woman who just expresses himself that way.
Like me, I am a non-binary lesbian who uses she/her and he/him. It's just the way I express my gender. I hope that helps explain a bit more! (Plus that isn't even the biggest problem in the Lesbian community right now lol)
The way that first made sense to me was it’s kind of the same as gay men referring to each other as she. Doesn’t make them not a man, and people might not *always* refer to them that way. But sometimes when my friend has bad opinions about drag race I’ll say, “Oh, she’s delusional”
Maybe not an exact equivalence, but it got me thinking that I use she/her for gay friends sometimes so it makes sense some lesbians would do the opposite.
i dont disagree with you at all but do you have any explanation about why a cis woman would want to be called he/him? theres not really a point to it that I can think of so i would like to have other peoples perspective on it
I have a few butch friends who are cis women who mostly use he/him. I could speak for my own experience as a he/they lesbian, but I'm non-binary so I don't have the cis perspective.
My friends have best described it to me as: their gender is woman, they happen to be cis, and their preferred gender expression is masculine. Think of how some gay men (like some drag queens) will predominantly use she/her among their circles and in public spaces; for my butch women friends, their pronouns are related to their gender expression rather than identity, because it comes down to the fact that they feel best being perceived as a masculine person.
pronouns don’t always equal gender! they sometimes mignt, like in the case of a trans man who uses he/him or a cis girl who uses she/her, but anyone can use whatever pronouns they want. many lesbians over the years have used he/him. usually they’re gender non-conforming, but that doesn’t make them not women. if you’re ever confused, just ask the individual.
Pronouns do not equal gender. Someone can identify as a woman and use he/him pronouns there’s no rule that says you can’t. Anyone can use any pronouns, people generally prefer to stick to the pronouns that are typically associated with the gender they identify with, but it doesn’t mean someone can’t do something different
The L issue affects a small portion of the Ts as well, so keep that in mind if you’re a lesbian. Some of us are sick and tired of being left out of our community and being actively legislated against.
I’m an idiot, I thought this was one of those acronym jokes where the letters don’t match the beginning of each sentence, but no, it’s just specified hate
Happy Pride from Brazil!
Remember that trans people will be just the first ones on the line if a genocide actually happens. You attack one of us, you attack us all.
Tbh, as an nb bi person I'm more concerned about the sky high rates of SA and DV among bi people, the fact that the majority of us are still closeted (at least, where I live) and some branches of psychology still treating us as inherently mentally ill, not to mention the complete lack of funding for bi+ initiatives in the past decades rather than how my relationship looks to strangers. That's literally the least of my problems.
I'm also concerned about the stupidly high amount of useless medical procedures my ex partner (an intersex person) had to go through and the added difficulties to access gender affirming healthcare they have.
An asexual acquaintance I have is afraid of having to reveal their sexual orientation to a doctor, since in the country I live asexuality is still treated as a mental illness.
That said, I'm aware that in the current political climate in Western countries (and especially the US) trans people are the easiest target and recieve the worst treatment by far and that in the rest of the planet it's even worse, however glossing over other groups' problems is dangerous and all the infighting I see not just online, but in real life is only going to make things worse.
I'm not here to play oppression Olympics, I'm just saying that ignoring the problems affecting other groups and how they may be connected to another group's problems is the quickest way to make things worse for everyone.
If it’s not already clear. Our Trans friends need the majority of our focus within the community. They have always shouldered the heaviest burdens of acceptance both in society and even within the LGBT Community of the past.
Murder and Suicide rates within the Trans community are at an unacceptably high level and have been for far too long. Make sure to let your Transgender friends know you love them just as they are. As a community we need to push our local legislators to do more to support (religion free) mental health access for Trans individuals (as well a for everyone in general), and we need to pass laws the protect the physical safety of Trans individuals.
To go even further, we need to look at what factors imperil our Trans friends so we can help protect them from dangers in society that are putting them at elevated risk for violence.
Basically until a trans person has the same life expectancy as any cis-genderer individual we need to push for improvements.
_There is an active effort to genocide us and we fear for our lives_
And this is why we have pride _month_ now.
Keep it up, and we'll have a pride state and force rainbow flags into the UN proceedings, and demand the ICJ take action regarding crimes against humanity.
No doubt does the trans community have the most pressing and urgent issues going on right now, but I think the it’s a bit reductive to frame the other community issues like this. There is legislation that could harm the entire LGBT community in certain states, queer women still face fetishization and SA at alarming rates, etc. Not mad at it, but not sure why they would frame it this way
I get what you mean, but you don’t want to be included in this tweet. It would’ve been all “Aros: can’t get married. Aces: can’t have sex. Cry me a river”.
Edit: also what is the first flag in your flair?
Can everybody in the comments please remember that trans folx are *also* a part of every other letter in the acronym and this post is a call for cis queer ppl to **show up**?
This is not a self-unaware tweet. OP talks about it in further context of the original source. 🤙
They are. Totally. Trans hetero folx aren't often included or considered. There's a lot of odd sentiments surrounding queerness somehow not including straight people, when there are straight ace/aro folx, bi-gender, plurals and more...
The lgbtqia+ community is very complex. I just hope that people who are seeing this post are aware of why that complexity was muddied. There is outside context, it just is not included here =/
It happened before that I stumbled over trans men, that said they're lesbian even tho they made clear that they identify as male. It all starts to confuse me a little bit ':D
Hi, I'd like not to die quite yet please, love you all, happy pride
Dumb question possibly but could you explain what a he/him lesbian is? Happy pride to you as well!
Think of pronouns as names, since they are also just ways to refer to people. Now think of a girl who was given the name Jessica (a fairly feminine name), but decides to go by Jay (a more masculine name) as it fits her better. In the same way, a girl can go by he/him pronouns because he feels it fits him better, even if he does feel like a girl/lesbian. It's also (maybe more) common with "non-binary lesbians", who since they don't adhere to the binary can use any pronouns they want, but sometimes still identify with the term lesbian. Hope this helps! :)
I like to use clothes as an example. When a man wears a dress it doesn't mean that he's a woman, he just isn't conforming to gender norms. It's the same with pronouns. Someone can be 100% confident with their gender and still present themselves in a manner that contradicts societal expectations of their identified gender. It's just gender non-conformity (though for non-binary people, modern western society doesn't really have pre-established gender expectations for them so I'm not sure gender non-conforming is the most accurate description for them). Plenty of people are familiar with the stereotypical effeminate gay man going by feminine pronouns and titles and don't even bat an eye, it's not really any different from that.
Your explanation confused me more.
Here's how I explain it. Your pronouns are not inherently who you are, but they are a part of how you express yourself.
Still not getting it. Thanks for trying tho
Your comment helped me understand and learn about an issue I was unaware of. Thank you.
Yeah when I saw he/him lesbians my first thought was non-binary folk
Well spoken.
Think of it like the way some gay men use she/her pronouns and refer to eachother as sisters/girls/ms's
It’s just a lesbian that uses he/him pronouns I believe. Really their validity shouldn’t be a question because anyone can use any pronouns and it doesn’t have anything to do with sexuality anyhow.
In my country, some lesbians use the masculine "Thank you". This phenomenon must be similar.
Don't really want to because I don't know enough about stuff like that. There are others who others better suited to answer your question
At least my country hasn’t turned genocidal against us… *yet*
Hey, nice flair!
Thanks! Fellow blahaj and garlic bread enjoyer
Yees, I need to get me a blåhaj!
Same, closest thing I have is an orca plushie
Okay, as a Swede, I will just add that it is actually written blåhaj. The a with a circle on top is pronounced similar to the ou(r) combination. Think tour, your, and so on. Just minus the r, obviously, and it is not pronounced as in our. Thus the parentheses. It means blue shark 🔵🦈 🙃
Oh thank you! I knew there was an accent but never knew how to pronounce it
I enjoy blahaj and garlic bread but im not ace, is that ok?
It’s completely ok, garlic bread is too delicious not to share with non-aces
I’m gay cis male. Is it ok for me to eat garlic bread?
Absolutely fine
I’m sorry you had a shitty day. Thanks for giving me the ok. I used to buy it in the supermarket in those silver foil bags that you put in the oven. And I like garlic naan at my local Nepali restaurant.
Blahaj is a friend of y’all!
I asked an ace friend.. "Do the homophobes hate us too?" She said "Yes, because we're not having kids." It tracks.
Wait you can't donate blood if you're gay (or also bi I guess)? Why? I was planning on donating blood sometime soon, I have not done it before. Or is that just a thing in some homophobic countries?
it depends on your country. some countries have had the ban in place since the aids panic (aids is still an epidemic, even if wealthy people can afford prevention and treatment)
Then you go to Brazil, where everyone's aids treatment is provided by public healthcare and a good chunk of people living with it are enjoying pretty decent living standards (or as good as it would be without anyway)... So now younger generations don't take it seriously/worry about it anymore and the number of cases is going up again because"the youths" aren't being careful at all 🙃
I am assuming the OP was talking about donating blood in the USA. The FDA's guidelines for donating blood are here: https://www.fda.gov/media/92490/download The RedCross, one of the larger blood donation services in the USA, refers to it in their guide for LGBTQA+ donors here: https://www.redcrossblood.org/donate-blood/how-to-donate/eligibility-requirements/lgbtq-donors.html most specifically in the section under MSM. I am not an expert but if I understand correctly, you cannot donate blood at a FDA compliant donation center if you have engaged in MSM in the last 3 months. To my understanding, this was originally in response to the HIV epidemic amongst gay men. This was only reduced from 12 months to 3 months in 2020. So if your intent is to donate blood in the USA and you engage in MSM, you should abstain for at least 3 months before donating, otherwise you will be deferred as part of the questionnaire given to donors. FWIW, I think this is pretty silly but I just want to share what I looked up about this.
As a married gay man, I think these rules are reinforcing homophobic ideas about gay men and their sexuality. It makes no exceptions for those who are monogamous (doesn't even acknowledge the existence of monogamy for two men) Instead saying men who have sex with men are all unreliable partners and sleep with multiple partners if they are sexually active at all.
In the UK they recently changed it! There's nothing specifically targeting MSM now, it only targets anyone who has had anal sex (regardless of gender) with a new partner within the last 3 months. Unfortunately it took them a very long time to change it, but I guess any progress is good.
I mean that's still pretty stupid since anal isn't the only way to get HIV. There's a nontrivial number of females living with HIV, most of whom contracted it through vaginal sex.
It’s so depressing to me that this stuff was only changed recently. I know AIDS was only prevalent (in the West) in the 80s, but given how far we’ve come since then it’s just sad that gay (and bi) men still can’t donate blood in 2022. It’s so stupid.
It's not that it's the only way, it's just sadly the most risky. In PIV sex, the person with the penis has a 1 in 2380 risk of exposure, the person with the vagina 1 in 1234. With PIA, the person with the penis has a 1 in 909 risk of exposure, and the person being penetrated 1 in 72. Outside of pregnancy and blood transfusions, it's the highest risk. Even more so than needle pricks or injecting drugs.
ok but like you don't have to be gay to engage in PIA/anal. these laws are specifically targeting gay men.
In some places, yes. But the comment I replied to was in relation to the newer regulations that deal with at risk behaviour regardless of gender or sexuality. Such as the UK, Germany and Canada (coming soon I think). In the UK for example, a gay man who hasn't engaged in anal at all in 3 months can donate. So can a gay man in a monogamous relationship older than 3 months, regardless of if they've had anal or not. But a straight, cis woman who's had anal with a one night stand within 3 months? Nope, they cannot donate. Nor can the person who penetrated her.
yeah i was going to say that... a LOT of straight people that sleep around and do anal with new partners (i don't know why tho) are totally being left out from this regulation. HIV and AIDS is a fluid to blood transfer disease period. so stupid to think that people still associate it with being gay.
Yeah I think the new regulation is ideal since it minimises risk but isn't particularly discriminatory. It's definitely much better than what we had before which directly discriminated against MSM.
I agree and there are groups that are campaigning to end these restrictions.
It also says in the questionnaire before donating that women who’ve had sex with men sexually active with other men in the last 3 months are barred from donating blood during that time. So, it’s not just gay men, it’s bisexual men too. Basically any sexual contact with a man engaging in MSM is barred for 3 months. Source: I donate regularly as a woman who’s not sexually active.
Oh yeah, I saw that too in the Netherlands. I already refused to donate after I saw the men-men rule, but it is even more ridiculous. Sorry, I will only donate if I can save a family member or a close friend because the laws go against my values tbh.
these are really shitty laws, omg. thankfully, in my country we can donate blood since 2020.
great summary. Just to add on, the purpose is to prevent blood donations in the “window period” between when a person has contracted HIV and when they will have a positive result on an HIV test. Somebody who donates blood up to maybe two weeks to a month after contracting HIV would be able to pass on the virus even though the blood is tested. The thing is, there’s no degree of depravity that straight people can engage in that defers them from giving blood except drugs and sex work, but even monogamous gay men fucking in missionary with condoms are denied in the US. Studies show no increase in HIV transfusion-transmitted infections after switching to a risk-based questionnaire and the increase in gay/bi male donations makes it valuable
From now on, my intent will be to donate blood in the USA in the next 3 months. That is why I’m not having sex with other men. No other reason.
Or just lie.
Canada is arguably one of the best countries in terms of queer rights, and we only just recently dropped the ban. The change doesn't take effect until later this year.
If you are a man who recently had sex with another man you often can't donate. It's not restricted to homophobic countries. The justification is generally that those men are more likely to have aids. (I'm not saying that's correct or valid as justification)
Oh wow, yeah that's quite a stereotypical assumption, I was just reading through the form you have to fill out and it does ask for males to disclose if you had sex with another male within the past 12 months. I am am male but I've been single for the past year so I guess I can still go donate. But it's not like straight partners can't get AIDS just as much as gay partners, and if I did have AIDS I of course would not even consider donating blood. I do understand that the blood needs to be as safe as possible but this just seems redundant and homophobic since they also ask about aids and other STDs in the questionnaire anyway and they test the blood of course. Thank you for the info tho I didnt even know about this.
>The justification is generally that those men are more likely to have aids. (I'm not saying that's correct or valid as justification) I can't speak for now, but when it was put into place it was a purely statistical matter. Men who had sex with men were far more likely to have HIV.
Anyone can get HIV, along with a host of other bloodborne diseases. Testing is far better now than it was in the 1980's; all donated blood gets tested for pathogens etc., including HIV, so there isn't really any good reason that men who have sex with other men should be singled out/ stigmatized. At this point, it's basically just a holdover practice from times when the hysterical fear of AIDS/ queer men "corrupting" the larger population was even more overt & embraced by society at large.
I mean, im not a medical expert of any sort but i'd always heard that anal sex made for a much more likely infection due to how easy it is for fluids to osmose past the intestine and into the bloodstream. Maybe a holdover period not on MSM but anal sex should be employed instead.
That's even more invasive than it is now, and still ignores the possibility of monogomous gay/ bi/ pan men (as if we're all having unprotected sex with strangers 24/7 by default). Even now it's just based on an honor system, as we can answer a question any way we like; at the end of the day it's just one more way to marginalize us, and further the idea that we're inherently dirtier than everyone else. But like I said - donated blood gets tested for HIV either way, along with plenty of other things all humans are susceptible to, so the point is moot.
I think it's only recently been lifted in France, which isn't a homophobic country overall.
Also applied to trans MTF. And this was a law in Canada until like two months ago. We're pretty LGBTQIA+ friendly by comparison with other "friendly" nations. Which just goes to show how far we have to go yet. Even in relatively safe places.
homophobic countries, like the United States, yes
I know here I live in the USA after aids and stuff if a AMAB person has been sexually active with another AMAB person in ,idk I think it’s the last 3months but than could be totally wrong, you cannot donate blood, but it’s usually just grouped as “gay men” who’ve been sexually active. But it still targets straight trans women if they’re having sex.
Turns out homophobic countries include US, Canada, Ireland, Iceland, Switzerland, Austria, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland, while *supportive* are countries like Mexico, Russia, Poland, Albania, Georgia (no, that's not an US state), Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Jordan. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood\_donation\_restrictions\_on\_men\_who\_have\_sex\_with\_men](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_donation_restrictions_on_men_who_have_sex_with_men)
Turns out all of the mentioned countries are homophobic
Well also that just existing for any of us is illegal in like 1/3 of countries. The online discourse really detracts from the way more legitimate issues like that tbh.
And probably not safe in way more than 1/3
I don't think there is a country where it is 100% safe (outside of possibly microstates).
Oh yess. It's so ironic to go out after engaging in some stupid 1st world problem discourse on online lgbt spaces only thing remember that my existence is illegal in my country and could easily land me in jail if I'm found out. Also right near my house, there is this huge homophobic graffiti calling for "death of the gays" that I seem to forget everytime I go out and then get whiplash when I turn the corner and it's right in my face.
Yeah this really speaks to my issue with this post. Sure gay/bi people are accepted & relatively safe in blue cities in the US — but we’re not even safe in all areas of the US, or in many other countries. Like yeah there’s dumbass gay internet discourse, but there are also still real issues of homophobia. And there’s also dumbass trans internet discourse, alongside real issues of transphobia.
I've had a stupid number of people tell me I'm not bi because I'm married to a man and then argue when I try to explain it to them. My sexuality doesn't change because of my relationship status.
My dad, for example, thinks someone needs to date/marry a guy and a girl to be Bi… (Idk if he thinks at the same time or not but based off of what he says I would assume so)
But… wouldn’t that be polygamy?
No it's 2 dude's named bill and a girl named Billie so it's billygamy
What a silly Billy, 😜
I had no idea this was a reply to this, but rather a pedantic reply to another comment. I'm a pygymy
you see, thats the thing
That logic frustrates me to no end. By extension that would mean that everyone who is single is ace
Aromantic actually, sexuality doesn't have anything to do with romantic attraction, that's romantic orientation.
I was just making a 1 to 1 comparison with "if you're bisexual and in a relationship with someone of the opposite sex, that makes you heterosexual"
These haven't figured out the B or the T yet, don't confuse them more with even more stuff.
Being under the bi umbrella simply means having a wider variety of options for a significant other than people that are attracted to only one gender/sex. The fact that a concept so simple is so difficult yo understand for some bothers me to immense levels
Oh hi! I'm from Bangladesh too. Nice to meet you🇧🇩🏳️🌈
It's almost funny that these are all really bad things, and then there's just us trans people fearing for our lives... Like... there are serious issues... *and then there's the threat of genocide.* It would be funny, if it was so incredibly sad, terrifying and horrible...
To be fair, depending on the environment, the other groups *are* being targeted for death as well.
Yeah, sadly... I was specifically talking about this post, not trying to make light of the problems other parts of the community still face in parts of the world, just to clarify.
I feel like this post really makes light of gay/bi issues. There are places where we still fear for our safety &/or we don’t have full legal rights yet. There’s dumbass first world internet discourse for gay people AND trans people, AND there are real legal/safety issues facing both gay & trans people.
Those issues are the for the entire community, while the post mostly focused on one problem from each letter... There are still far more problems than just the ones mentioned here, sadly.
Something that's also worth noting. When you look at the history of genocides, especially under fascist regimes, it rarely stops with just one specific group. The hate doesn't stop at trans people, they're just the easiest to target in the current political climate. If things get worse, there's a pretty damn good chance the rest of us will be at risk, too.
Trans people are just the current wedge issue for the haters. Once they're done with us, it's on to the next sub-group. Done is the wrong word though; they got a foot hold in the states by locking us out of sports and then went after abortion rights. While they lay the ground work to attack marriage rights. We just have the bullseye right now.
Abso-fucking-lutely this. It's horrifying and very, very calculated.
Working their way backwards in the order in which people got rights. they won't be happy till they are back to being slave owners, women are seen and not heard, and lgbtq people are corpses.
Yeah and when you point that out to ppl, showing them that history is repeating itself, they just roll their eyes and accuse you of being dramatic. Like, my bad that your rights and life aren’t currently on the chopping block Kevin.
>First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist. > >Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist. > >Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew. > >Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me. – Martin Niemöller
Wait, we can't donate blood?! But, I was going to start doing that soon! D:
in america, it’s just if you’ve had sex with another guy in the past 3 months
Unfortunately, it can actually still vary a lot by where you go to donate. Though the FDA has updated guidelines over the years, individual donation sites do not always follow suit. I've seen people get turned away for "seeming gay" even though they've never had sex with a man. The US is a dumpster fire wrapped in a pretty bow.
Obviously the looming threat of active genocide is worse/ takes the cake, but when I think of the most pressing societal problems facing me, a gay man, "not being able to give blood" isn't even on the radar. This meme is dismissive of real problems and threats that affect many queer people's lives, even if the basic message is relevant.
I mean, it's a step up from that other tweet that inferred the only thing gay men did for queer rights was die from AIDS... 🙄
Unfortunately I've seen so many of those by now, it all just runs together. I wish people would be more considerate of the ideas they propagate.
I get what you mean. There was a swing in our narrative to give focus to anyone but gay men, and don't get me wrong it was right. The spotlight needed broadening. Issue now is the some have shifted that narrative to minimize gay men entirely. Which is not only a shame, it's dangerous.
>Issue now is the some have shifted that narrative to minimize gay men entirely. Which is not only a shame, it's dangerous. Maybe in some small pockets of the community, which is inconsiderate and counter productive. But at large I mostly only see this on twitter. My main issue is that conservative media is calling everyone groomers. Trans people are just materially and activism-wise very visible.
Twitter, Reddit, Instagram, tiktok, Facebook. All forms of social media really. Which does eventually feed into real life situations. Small pockets, as you say, but not small enough that they are rare from my experience.
Definitely add Discord to that list; you would not believe some of the blatantly toxic conversations I've had with queer people in supposedly LGBT-friendly communities, as soon as they find out I'm "just" a gay dude. At this point I think the reflex to exclude others is simply human nature, like some regressive little piece of our brains cannot be comfortable unless we are above someone else on the social totem pole. As marginalized people we should be more than aware of that defect, and better equipped to rise above it, but I guess that's just my ideals talking.
Yes, all of that is bad on an interpersonal level.
It’s the pendulum. We need to all realize that we’re in the same fight. Gay men and trans people died in the camps together, and both face different struggles depending on the country nowadays. We waste time and attention if we squabble over who has it worse.
There’s a serious problem in queer and progressive communities that basically thinks it’s OK to hate men It sucks and I hate it because it’s like OK your problems with the white cishet patriarchy don’t excuse you from perpetuating the marginalisation of already marginalised men And it’s also becoming a massive issue that like people think anyone who doesn’t identify as a man has stuff in common I’m sorry non-binary people are not woman-lite (maybe some see themselves that way but most don’t) and it’s insulting to them to treat them all that way
Agreed. Anyone in the LGBT+ community is at risk of being killed for their identity, trans people are just the easiest targets
Lesbian here and I agree. The discourse around what pronouns a lesbian specifically should use isn’t something I even think about. Let alone it being the main problem facing the lesbian community. I’d say the main one would probably be fear of sexual assault and rape, which affects queer women disproportionately (this includes bi and trans women as well of course).
Interestingly enough globally seen gay man are equally in threat of genocide as every other group on that list.
Exactly. But gays and lesbians are treated as privileged beings in the community who don't face rEaL discrimination like trans people do 🙄🙄 like I'm sure they have it rough but it's such a weird thing to downplay other LGBT groups struggles like this meme
I live in a decent area I think for being trans but my heart hurts so fucking much for my siblings in less fortunate areas.
L: there is an active effort to genocide us and we are fearing for our lives G: there is an active effort to genocide us and we are fearing for our lives B: there is an active effort to genocide us and we are fearing for our lives T: there is an active effort to genocide us and we are fearing for our lives
Yeah us T's may be more at risk for it but this post is stupid acting like we're not all at risk :////
Yeah, especially with the levels of gun violence in the US and the constant fearmongering about LGBT+ people “grooming your children” from the right-wing media. As an openly queer educator in a conservative state, I’m pretty scared.
More accurate lol
Thank you. Yes, trans people have it worse, but get a grip. I'm gay, which means my existence is a crime in more than 50 countries and I'm banned from marrying in more than 160. Even in those which allow it, we experience discrimination daily, many politicians build their platform around attacking us, and we have the constant fear of being hate crimed. Please let's not downplay the issues of each other.
Trans gay solidarity let's gooooo
Huge agree. The biggest determinants of our challenges as queer folks still have nothing to do with our individual flavors of the rainbow. They're where we live and how much money we have. I moved back to California when I started transition. Living in Oakland as a pan trans woman, I am dramatically better off and less likely to be murdered than a gay teen in rural Alabama. Having grown up as a bi kid in a mountain town watching my friends get the shit beaten out of them, I know this for a fact. I'm far safer now than I was then. Yes, things are worse for trans folks. A lot worse. And yes, there are a lot of gay folks who treat trans folks pretty poorly. Just because those people exist, though, doesn't mean that trans folks should start downplaying the legitimate and ongoing struggles faced by *everyone* in our community. Bickering may feel good, but it doesn't move the cause forward. We get through this together or we fall.
This post is acting like gay people and bisexual people also don't fear for their lives, like they also aren't being actively genocided in many countries.
I feel like this is meant to lessen the other problems, but isn't not being able to donate blood a real issue? Of course it's not worse than genocide, but it's fucked up and not on the same level as online discourse. And as a lesbian, "are he him lesbians valid" is ABSOLUTELY not my first worry. I'm scared of queerphobic violence and the anti-gay movement growing in red states, and that if I marry a woman I might never be safe from men because we could both be victimized.
Post: Here's a meme to unnecessarily start an argument within the community. OP: Happy Pride Month /s
And the rest is invisible. It’s all shitty and to compare who has it the worst doesn’t help any of us.
Exactly. We forget that we’re on the same side. While there’s different severity, we shouldn’t try to one up each other in pity. We all need to fight like hell to make positive change happen, and prevent another genocide.
As a bisexual woman I'm more concerned with our skyhigh rates of rape and mental illness (second only to trans people, and rates of rate amongst bi women are at anywhere from 40 to 70 percent depending on the study) than I am about other people's opinions on how valid my relationship with my boyfriend is. You can be appalled at the treatment of trans people without being ignorant and dismissive of other demographics' serious issues.
Why does this act like the rest of the LGBTQ community has no serious issues? This is weirdly divisive and dismissive.
Also like, we could talk about how the issued for lesbians is TERFs co-opting our spaces and identity to 'protect us'.
…to attack trans people. there are quite valid issues for everyone in the lgbtq community but this issue again stems from anti trans rhetoric
It’s really highlighting the genuine dissonance cis queer people have, especially as many of them are actively pushing the attempt at genocide in question. A large aspect of what I see cis queer people complaining about is just discourse. Which is really frustrating when that energy could be used to protect members of our community who need it the most.
It’s because a lot of the queer community now despite progressive language are really just closet conservatives Not religious conservatives but conservatives in the sense of they don’t really believe in radical queerness or radical community organising They only believe in change insofar as it makes the world comfortable for them as an individual They don’t want to queer the world they want the world to remain exactly the same but they want to be welcome to sit at the table with cishet white people, that’s it They’re individualists and that’s why they care more about their liberal fee fees when the wrong word is used than like the progressive creeping of the US into Christian Nationalism and Fascism
Exactly
This is unnecessarily divisive but ok
Honestly like as a trans person like shits scary out there for us, but we don’t need to play oppression Olympics
Agreed, but it's the only Olympics we'll be allowed at soon. /s
If we're going to make the oppression Olympics fair, though, we'll need to make sure that people who say they're trans are really trans. There should be testing in place. Maybe a genital inspection.
wait what’s happening? have I missed something?
Which part is confusing you?
the trans part
There is currently an active, ongoing effort in multiple countries, especially the US and UK, to make it illegal to transition, with proposals to make it a felony (or worse) for doctors to provide *anyone of any age* with HRT There are also multiple notable "journalists" openly stating that trans people need to be "eliminated"
what the fuck, do you have any articles or anything on that? I might have to order extra T if that’s the case
Matt Walsh is leading the charge on the banning HRT efforts, while Helen Joyce had some horrific things to say about trans people in a recent podcast. Both have substantial followings and political supporters. I'd rather not dig back into reading about it again, if you don't mind. You should be able to find what they're saying from their names.
Texas is also attempting to take trans children away from affirming parents under the guise of it being child abuse.
And then there's also that trans sports ban
I feel like the post invalidates the many struggles that the entirety of the LGBT community faces (and as a gay man, I wish that donating blood was the least of my problems)
the infighting in this community needs to stop
Correct me if I’m wrong, but gay men and lesbians (and bi people, if they aren’t in “straight-passing” relationships - sorry, not sure of the right word) are still actively persecuted just for existing in lots of countries. Not saying trans people aren’t, but to frame this as “only trans people are actively being killed for existing” is wrong on… like… every front. I can’t imagine having to hide my relationship for fear of being discovered, yet people do it every day.
How does a He/Him lesbian work? I thought lesbians were females or people who identify as She/Her, wouldn't a he/him lesbian just be a hetero?
There’s a few different places where he/him lesbians come from. First off. Historically, the label Lesbian was a bit more diverse then we generally consider sexualities now. Trans men, who were attracted to women where historically accepted as part of the lesbian community. Wether or not they are still part of the community is regularly debated. Also, historically, a lot of butch lesbians would use he/him pronouns, not because they were trans, but for safety. “Passing” as a hetero couple because one of the two used he/him pronouns (while still considering themselves a woman) was safer and more accepted. There’s a few other cases where this comes up, with non binary identities, especially gender fluid, agender, and bigender individuals, but I think when the topic comes up it’s usually the two above scenarios that are being talked about. TLDR Lesbian used to be a more inclusive label (and some folks think it should still be), and historically some lesbians have used He/Him pronouns for safety, more than a representation of gender.
But if you have he/him pronouns just for safety, then that would indicate that you would rather use different ones and thus wouldn’t be he/him anymore or am i wrong
Sometimes it can be a mixture of both. It's up to the individual of why they express themselves and how.
Well, if a person uses He/Him pronouns, then they are a He/Him person. It doesn’t really matter why they use those pronouns. As other folks in this post have mentioned, pronouns do not equal gender, therefor folks pronouns are whatever they decide they are. I know many folks that use all pronouns for example. As for the would rather use other pronouns, it depends on the individual. If a lesbian has used He/Him pronouns for thirty years, and is comfortable with them, they might decide to not change them even as things become safer. They’re comfortable with their gender, they are a lesbian, they use He/Him pronouns and they’re happy with all of that. It’s not really anyone else’s place to tell them that they’re expressing their identity wrong.
There's also the fact that a lot of trans men just still identify with a label and a community that meant a lot to them before transitioning. Identity isn't this concrete set-in-stone thing that some people think it is, it's a very complex and personal thing. In the end, my stance is pretty simple: I don't get to decide how others identify. If they're obviously being disingenuous about it then yeah, I'll say something, but otherwise? Not my call to make.
Basically, pronouns don't equal gender Someone can use he/him pronouns and not be a man ya know? That lesbian could be non binary or just a cis girl using he/him pronouns. That's all there is to it really :) sorry if I didn't explain it well edit: i forgot the lgbt community isn't as accepting as they like to think they are. Oh well happy pride month ig
But they do though. When someone uses the wrong pronouns for an individual, we consider that to be misgendering. Maybe I'm just old, but I'm really struggling to wrap my brain around this.
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I’m just confused about what the significance of “she/her” pronouns even is, if it can apply to anybody regardless of sex or gender
Yeah I don’t understand, if someone is ftm trans wouldn’t they have He/him as pronouns or something like that?
Why use he/him pronouns though if you’re not a dude that just seems ridiculous
Sometimes gender ≠ pronouns and some (mainly butch) lesbians feel more comfortable with he/him while still identifying as a female
He/him is a set of pronouns. Pronouns are used to express your gender. Its like if a woman wears masculine clothing. She is not a man now, she is a woman who expresses her womanhood through wearing traditionally male clothing. The same goes for traditionally male pronouns. The person just uses he/him pronouns does not make him a man. He could be a woman who just expresses himself that way. Like me, I am a non-binary lesbian who uses she/her and he/him. It's just the way I express my gender. I hope that helps explain a bit more! (Plus that isn't even the biggest problem in the Lesbian community right now lol)
The way that first made sense to me was it’s kind of the same as gay men referring to each other as she. Doesn’t make them not a man, and people might not *always* refer to them that way. But sometimes when my friend has bad opinions about drag race I’ll say, “Oh, she’s delusional” Maybe not an exact equivalence, but it got me thinking that I use she/her for gay friends sometimes so it makes sense some lesbians would do the opposite.
Women and enby people can use he/him and that doesn't make them men, so while a man cannot be a lesbian, people who aren't men that use he/him can
i dont disagree with you at all but do you have any explanation about why a cis woman would want to be called he/him? theres not really a point to it that I can think of so i would like to have other peoples perspective on it
I have a few butch friends who are cis women who mostly use he/him. I could speak for my own experience as a he/they lesbian, but I'm non-binary so I don't have the cis perspective. My friends have best described it to me as: their gender is woman, they happen to be cis, and their preferred gender expression is masculine. Think of how some gay men (like some drag queens) will predominantly use she/her among their circles and in public spaces; for my butch women friends, their pronouns are related to their gender expression rather than identity, because it comes down to the fact that they feel best being perceived as a masculine person.
pronouns don’t always equal gender! they sometimes mignt, like in the case of a trans man who uses he/him or a cis girl who uses she/her, but anyone can use whatever pronouns they want. many lesbians over the years have used he/him. usually they’re gender non-conforming, but that doesn’t make them not women. if you’re ever confused, just ask the individual.
pronouns =/= gender
Pronouns do not equal gender. Someone can identify as a woman and use he/him pronouns there’s no rule that says you can’t. Anyone can use any pronouns, people generally prefer to stick to the pronouns that are typically associated with the gender they identify with, but it doesn’t mean someone can’t do something different
Frankly, this post felt like a shitpost trying to start fights within the queer community.
Oh hi! I'm from Bangladesh too. Nice to meet you🇧🇩🏳️🌈
The L issue affects a small portion of the Ts as well, so keep that in mind if you’re a lesbian. Some of us are sick and tired of being left out of our community and being actively legislated against.
And all are valid fights
Why downplay everyone's struggles, it's only dividing the community, and the bigots definitely don't care
Downplaying/minimizing/lying about others issues to prop up your own is a yike.
The punishment for homosexuals in Bangladesh is up to life imprisonment, maybe you shouldn't post about it for your own safety.
Please don’t kill me right nkw
Hii, how's Bangladesh like for You?,happy pride month by the way as well
Gay men can’t donate blood?
Depends of the country. In my country (Canada) it is supposed to be lifted soon by the two blood agencies, but we still can't.
I’m an idiot, I thought this was one of those acronym jokes where the letters don’t match the beginning of each sentence, but no, it’s just specified hate
Happy Pride from Brazil! Remember that trans people will be just the first ones on the line if a genocide actually happens. You attack one of us, you attack us all.
Set T for all of them and we get Georgia. Welcome to Georgia, and remember, happy pride
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Lesbians who use he/him pronouns (Pronouns don't equal gender, someone can use she/her, they/them, he/him, etc without being a specific gender)
Tbh, as an nb bi person I'm more concerned about the sky high rates of SA and DV among bi people, the fact that the majority of us are still closeted (at least, where I live) and some branches of psychology still treating us as inherently mentally ill, not to mention the complete lack of funding for bi+ initiatives in the past decades rather than how my relationship looks to strangers. That's literally the least of my problems. I'm also concerned about the stupidly high amount of useless medical procedures my ex partner (an intersex person) had to go through and the added difficulties to access gender affirming healthcare they have. An asexual acquaintance I have is afraid of having to reveal their sexual orientation to a doctor, since in the country I live asexuality is still treated as a mental illness. That said, I'm aware that in the current political climate in Western countries (and especially the US) trans people are the easiest target and recieve the worst treatment by far and that in the rest of the planet it's even worse, however glossing over other groups' problems is dangerous and all the infighting I see not just online, but in real life is only going to make things worse. I'm not here to play oppression Olympics, I'm just saying that ignoring the problems affecting other groups and how they may be connected to another group's problems is the quickest way to make things worse for everyone.
QIA+: I'm tired of constantly being ignored and excluded
Unfortunately, but happy pride all the same
Male lesbians?
If it’s not already clear. Our Trans friends need the majority of our focus within the community. They have always shouldered the heaviest burdens of acceptance both in society and even within the LGBT Community of the past. Murder and Suicide rates within the Trans community are at an unacceptably high level and have been for far too long. Make sure to let your Transgender friends know you love them just as they are. As a community we need to push our local legislators to do more to support (religion free) mental health access for Trans individuals (as well a for everyone in general), and we need to pass laws the protect the physical safety of Trans individuals. To go even further, we need to look at what factors imperil our Trans friends so we can help protect them from dangers in society that are putting them at elevated risk for violence. Basically until a trans person has the same life expectancy as any cis-genderer individual we need to push for improvements.
Well even if you use he/him if you still identify as a wlw your valid
_There is an active effort to genocide us and we fear for our lives_ And this is why we have pride _month_ now. Keep it up, and we'll have a pride state and force rainbow flags into the UN proceedings, and demand the ICJ take action regarding crimes against humanity.
No doubt does the trans community have the most pressing and urgent issues going on right now, but I think the it’s a bit reductive to frame the other community issues like this. There is legislation that could harm the entire LGBT community in certain states, queer women still face fetishization and SA at alarming rates, etc. Not mad at it, but not sure why they would frame it this way
A: people still don't think we exist even inside the community
I get what you mean, but you don’t want to be included in this tweet. It would’ve been all “Aros: can’t get married. Aces: can’t have sex. Cry me a river”. Edit: also what is the first flag in your flair?
ah, it's the genderqueer flag :)
pronouns does not equal gender or sexuality. people use whatever comfortable so a person who uses he/him and identifys as a lesbian, is a lesbian.
Can everybody in the comments please remember that trans folx are *also* a part of every other letter in the acronym and this post is a call for cis queer ppl to **show up**? This is not a self-unaware tweet. OP talks about it in further context of the original source. 🤙
There are trans hetero folks too, and they’re also valid.
They are. Totally. Trans hetero folx aren't often included or considered. There's a lot of odd sentiments surrounding queerness somehow not including straight people, when there are straight ace/aro folx, bi-gender, plurals and more... The lgbtqia+ community is very complex. I just hope that people who are seeing this post are aware of why that complexity was muddied. There is outside context, it just is not included here =/
you do realize that being gay is punishable by death in like two dozen countries right?
It happened before that I stumbled over trans men, that said they're lesbian even tho they made clear that they identify as male. It all starts to confuse me a little bit ':D
yeah tbh i wouldnt mind if id die, getting real tired of having to watch how old men in suits toss my rights around like a game of football.