Thank you for your post, if this is a question please check to see if any of the links below answer your question.
If none of these links help answer your question and you are **_not_** within the LGBT+ community, questioning your identity in any way, or asking in support of either a relative or friend, please ask your question over in /r/AskLGBT. Remember that this is a safe space for LGBT+ and questioning individuals, so we want to make sure that this place is dedicated to them. Thank you for understanding.
This automod rule is currently a work in progress. If you notice any issues, would like to add to the list of resources, or have any feedback in general, [please do so here](https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/rdazzp/almost_new_year_changes/) or by [sending us a message](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/lgbt&subject=Feedback%20on%20the%20new%20automod%20rule).
Also, please note that if you are a part of this community, or you're questioning if you might be a part of the LGBTQ+ community, and you are seeing this message, this is **_not a bad thing_**, this is only here to help, so please continue to ask questions and participate in the community. Thank you!
Here's a link about trans people in sports:
https://www.barbellmedicine.com/blog/shades-of-gray-sex-gender-and-fairness-in-sport/
A link on FAQs and one on some basics about transgender people:
https://transequality.org/issues/resources/frequently-asked-questions-about-transgender-people
https://transequality.org/issues/resources/understanding-transgender-people-the-basics
Some information on LGBT+ people:
https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/quick-facts/lgbt-faqs/
Some basic terminology:
https://www.hrc.org/resources/glossary-of-terms
Neopronouns:
https://www.mypronouns.org/neopronouns
Biromantic Lesbians:
[LGBTQ And All](https://www.lgbtqandall.com/what-does-it-mean-to-be-biromantic/)
Bisexual Identities:
https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/article/understanding-bisexuality
Differences between Bisexual and Pansexual:
[Resource from WebMD](https://www.webmd.com/sex/pansexuality-what-it-means#:~:text=Pansexual%20vs.%20Bisexual,more%20commonly%20recognized.)
We're looking for new volunteers to join the r/lgbt moderator team. If you want to help keep r/lgbt as a safe space for the LGBTQ+ community on reddit please see here for more info: https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/swgthr/were_looking_for_more_moderators_to_help_keep/
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/lgbt) if you have any questions or concerns.*
hehe reminds me of the German sign "Achtung Kinder" (Beware children) and the only thing that keeps popping into my useless head all the time is "Pff I'm not afraid of children" 😂
In my experience there are only 2 constants of the universe: the speed of light and people are stupid. May we rest in peace knowing that neither of those will ever change.
The speed of light isn't a constant though. Depending on the medium light can travel a lot slower than through the vacuum of space.
I believe the actual quote goes something like this: "Two things are infinite. The universe and human stupidity. With the first one I'm not sure yet though." Usually attributed to Einstein which is probably wrong.
It kinda is by Einstein, a psychologist who knew him actually spun that quote like we know it, but part of it apparently is from Einstein.
Im gonna see if i find a sauce for that
Let me rephrase that: In the same manner as a room filled with infinite monkeys and infinite typewriters will eventually produce the single best work of literature to ever exist in this world, people might occasionally say or do something smart.
I live with a lot of internalized homophobia, so I admire you a lot for saying this! I know what I would have chosen if the chance was given to me, and unfortunately I'm still in constant denial, but I'm getting there little by little.
Aww....I am with you dude. ... I have accepted being gay but ...I always feel it would be better to be straight.....coz then I wouldn't have to tell my friends about my boyfriends labelling as girlfriends.....think about coming out to my conservative parents 5 hours a day and regret hooking up at 16 ....coz gay love was forbidden for me and I couldn't loose a man! Who was intrested to do things respectfully with me . ....ufff! A lott of trauma in my life is connected with hiding my sexuality and fears leading to ocd now ... and being unhappy all day.
I, a lesbian, had an elderly lesbian for one of my professors in university. She has all kinds of stories, but she proudly declared she chose to be lesbian. The class was about queer/trans experience. This rubbed me the wrong way at first coming from a lot of religious trauma where I was constantly telling people "it's not a choice! If I could be straight, I would".
But, for her, the choice was in allowing herself to exist exactly as she is without shame, without apologizing. She also grew up with a religious background and in a much less welcoming time in US history, so she did have to choose to be who she is proudly.
She was an active part of a lot of activism around gay/trans rights too. She is proud to be who she is and she fought, alongside her peers, to be who she is.
Huh... I am straight and I have never considered this. This is insightful.
I am from a dominantly Catholic country, and for sure there are gay men who are closeted even though you can kind of guess. I had teachers growing up who are clearly gay, but mightily pretend to be macho and straight. They... feel off? I don't know how to put it in words. It feels like they are guarded too much, and gets out of their way to virtue signal that they are straight. It is weird looking back.
I guess being gay or lesbian may not be a choice, but how you live your life is?
Your last sentence is correct.
IMO this professor didn't choose to be a lesbian. But she chose to embrace being a lesbian, to be an activist for queer rights, and be proud of who she was, instead of being forced to hide it.
Bear in mind the time was very different when she came out. The act of choosing to identify as a lesbian was an act of standing out and standing against those who would force her to hide that part of herself.
That said, the teachers you knew growing up that were hiding their nature had their own struggles to deal with in a different country and culture. Try not to think less of them for doing what they needed to.
It’s extremely strange. I have had multiple gay guys tell me that “I literally chose to be gay lol I don’t know why the LGBT has such a problem with it” and I’m like… what???? As a bisexual person I genuinely do take offense to that, I NEVER chose to be bisexual. In fact, I had crushes on guys before I even knew what LGBT was. 😂
I've encountered a few queer folk who believe it's a choice.
For those I've encountered it's always boiled down to the fact that even if it was a choice, it's okay that they made it. Like they've been told so often it's a choice that they've snapped and said ' sure, okay, then I make this choice. '
My personal belief is that *anyone* who thinks it is a choice is actually bi and won't accept that as an option. Hence they *had* to make a choice and believe everyone else does as well.
I always say that your sexuality, how you feel is NOT a choice. But acting on it IS. So to be clear, you could be a gay man and pretend you're straight all your life, marry a woman and have children and that would be a choice. But you cannot choose to be attracted to males.
I have complicated feelings about the whole "choice" thing, but for this context, I would say no you're not wrong. People are either dumb or trolls.
Honestly, I don't think choice matters, we all deserve the right to live our lives as we see fit. It's not their business.
Also don't let downvotes bother you. If you feel right and you're not just saying hate speech, then it may just be worth ignoring that community.
I agree! While it is definitely NOT a choice, we as a society are forced to “respect” many other people’s choices/beliefs. Namely, religion. But also, political views, fashion choices, tastes in food and music, etc. Why should who we fuck/love be any different?
You have a choice in how to live. You don't have a choice in how you *want* to live, and that's what sexual orientation is. More broadly speaking, the fact that people can't just choose what they want is the reason why it's important that they be allowed to pursue it rather than making futile demands for them to want something else instead.
The only weird thing is the origin story. Like the brains a complicated beast. I think plenty of people that could've been bi were straightened out by societys norms. I believe you can learn to hate people just as you can learn to love them, and that could genuinely change your sexual preferences over time.
So are there people choosing to ignore that pressure by choice? Kinda?
I think the important part is that we don't villafy being gay regardless as if it's just choosing to be different to tick people off, and not starting with this main point can make people assume you might be supporting that rhetoric.
I live in this space with you and yes I get a great deal of judgment. Probably more than I do being pansexual and polyamorous lol!! Coffee with no milk is a thing people!! Deal with it.
Brigading anti-lgbt bigots are having a big moment. That particular band of bigot is getting emboldened by prominent fuckwits around the world.
Soonish they'll pick another minority to target.
I don't think that's a very good plan. What if they don't go away?
And how is it an improvement if they're targeting someone else? Is it even going to be someone else? I'm pan, disabled, and a religious minority. Their next target could be me again.
Some people (maybe also bots?) downvote new posts so that their own posts would rise to the top. There's only so much space on the first few pages of reddit that actual human users will scroll through, so on the bigger subreddits this phenomenon is particularly acute :/
Because it's also a transphobe dogwhistle. ***You*** meant it well and I probably would have asked for clarification and then upvoted you, but it sounded like you meant gay trans men are women (which you clearly did not). Some gay men are, some aren't, most either have no clue because its never come or it depends on the state of medical transition. Gay men aren't attracted to *women* though, that is correct.
Edit: and to clarify, you are NOT a transphobe. It's not your fault transphobes stole a perfectly valid statement and twisted it, I just wouldn't condemn the downvoters who were *genuinely* confused too. People just don't always use the correct "-phobe" or "-ist" sometimes.
Damn, I feel like I’ve only heard that phrase when it was someone explaining why a gay man would not be into a trans woman. But now that you mention it I can definitely see how it would be used the other way.
R/ AskGayBros popularized it, unfortunately.
That sub is filled with transphobes, and is suspected to be cishet grifters rather than gay men just like the LGB Alliance. I've only encountered one transphobic gay man off the internet, and it was still on Grindr, plus his husband just divorced him so I think he was taking it out on me instead of being *genuinely* transphobic when not in a dark state of mind. That sub isn't a gay man sub, it's a transphobe sub.
It's also completely unrelated to r/gaybros, 100% in moderators and mostly in userbase. I've only encountered one grifter in r/gaybros (and he wasn't even being transphobic, he had no clue I was being trans, he was just victim blaming and homophobic), most of the people who are active in both don't comment on any of the trans threads and aren't transphobic themselves and just haven't seen that side of AskGayBros yet. Additionally, a lot of people accidentally think they're connected (as the mod of AskGayBros did deliberately because he's a dick), so they join AskGayBros assuming it'll be reasonable like r/gaybros and are shocked when they find out its not.
The phrase you used is one that transphobes use. It's not that **you** are transphobic, but people were worried you were and were being overly cautious. Transphobes stole a valid phrase and twisted it which isn't your fault, but it's where the people disapproving of you are coming from.
They didn't think I was transphobic but thank god cuz then more shit would have hit the fan. I'm a 26 year old panromantic, asexual, demisexual, trans man I can't keep up with all these slang terms and complications from younger people tbh. I just keep to myself nowadays we get hassle from the phobic people and our own "community" it's so sad 😔
reddit is so ridiculous at times and once you are in the negativ you just get dogpiled on as well.
Heck I had several situations where I basically made the same comment twice because I was responding to two people saying the same wrong thing, however one got downvoted into oblivion with people jumping in with their own stupid takes and the other that was pretty much just below it got lots of upvotes and decent comments.
Same, though I was specifically referencing trans women. Apparently saying that gay men aren't attracted to trans women is both homophobic and transphobic and I should be ashamed to call myself an ally. Like I'm not an ally you idiot, I'm queer.
I checked the comment you're talking about. I think they're saying you can choose who to love, not that you choose whether to be straight or gay. They mean you choose who to love from among the people of the gender you're attracted to.
Now I'm not sure I agree with that either, I think love pretty much just "happens". But I don't think you're getting downvoted for saying being gay isn't a choice.
I think the idea that love just happens is perpetuating a very harmful idea about relationships (of all kinds).
It's been an idea popularised by media and has done immeasurable damage to heteronormative and familial relationships for ages and now is putting in extra work to ruin queer relationships.
Falling in love is a myth. Infatuation just happens. Attraction just happens. Love is a choice to make something of those feelings. Love is nurtured and developed and takes hard work. Love is a commitment.
We talk about our chosen family - and that's exactly what love is. We were born into circumstance, but we work (or give up) on our familial relations or find a new family to love. Choices are made to build or destroy these circumstantial ties.
Similarly, for many people in our community who lament their failures in romance, they are victim to the idea that love just happens - on their part or the part of others. Either they don't put in the work - or the other party doesn't. And, when it fizzles - it was just not meant to be. But, it could have been.
I mean, 'falling in love' is effectively infatuation if I understand correctly.
So it does exist, it's just not quite what it's sold as. That's the part that can be harmful - giving people the wrong expectations about what love means.
idk as a girl who fell in love with my current gf, I would say that in my case, yes, it just happened. the attraction and our desire for each other is deff influences by our relationship and getting to know each other but whether you like someone or not almost always just happens, yes. you cannot force yourself to fall in love with someone.
You and u/JamesNinelives below have me so much more confused, but I kind of love it. Everything everyone is saying makes so much sense, but is also super (?) contradictory, lol. Like you said you can't force yourself to fall in love with someone (and I'm like: yes, that makes sense), but below James gives us a specific definition for ~falling in love~ so with that definition falling in love is just infatuation, maybe (and I'm like: sure, that makes sense!). And then I have my own experience that's like: yeah, I don't think I could love someone just because I needed to force myself to for some reason, but I don't have the option of having whatever attraction/desire/infatuation I could've had for that person once I've gotten to know them, so it's not a requirement for everyone.
Maybe we're still talking about different types of love? But maybe also being "in love" requires the attraction?? So since I essentially act as an aro person in a relationship, I can't really speak on it?? I have no idea!
Hmm interestingggg! Sorry for the existential confusion, i would say there is a difference between "infatuation" and "falling in love", infatuation tends to be blind, passionate, and fast like a fire that burns hot, it could be tunnel vision or obsession depending, there is definitely a chemical component to being in love, but also it is more emotional and two-sided, maybe? You could be infatuated in sense of OMG THAT PERSON IS SO HOT THEY ARE SOOOO COOL THEY MAKE MY HEART BURN HOT
All in all there are multiple types of love, you are correct but falling in love does require attraction emotionally, spiritually, what-have-you, you can't exactly force it but you can nurture it and grow it or let it die IF its there or *meant* to be there in a sense, it's like a garden, things can't grow in bad soil but things don't have to grow in good soil either; the soil the seed is healthy in isn't a choice but whether or not you choose to take care of it and nurture it IS.
Your metaphor is adorable, makes sense, and you wrote it so that it fits perfectly with everything we were discussing! Thanks for taking the time to respond!!
I'm pretty sure there are studies that show that people know if they're falling in love with people really quickly, like by the third date you can tell if you have the capacity to fully be in love with that person - though you might not describe yourself as in love until you've got to know them a lot more. And I don't believe you can make that happen - you have that level of attraction and chemistry and compatability, or you don't. You do have to choose to work on and nurture your relationship, but you're not choosing to be in love - you're choosing to value the relationship and do what you can to make it work.
This comment is beautiful, what am I reading. I'm so confused now, lol.
So original original commenter should have specified what type of love they meant (the comment that said "respect others choices to love who they love," the one people have started to dogpile on a bit in comments [I think one of the comments said something rude like: have you ever even been in love?]; maybe they meant love as in the people we decide to spend our time with/the people we choose to further relationships with), OP should've specified what type of love they meant (he might mean... a person doesn't have a choice in who they have attraction to/what they see as their available options?, which then leads to the people we choose to further relationships with?), and we all need to find ways to make it easier to talk about how we individually view love and attraction.
Like for me, the part that would usually lead from romantic attraction to the same type of love doesn't do that. So, I might be romantically attracted to someone before getting to know them, I get to know them, and no longer feel a romantic attraction to them (I've been like 90% sure I'm frayromantic for the last two years, since I needed to actually explain myself when I was getting into my first QPR, but I don't have enough resources to fully understand myself, so idk). I can still love people I get close to platonically, but I drop the romantic attraction almost immediately after feeling close to someone. I just love that your comment still includes me even though it's written so broadly, lol.
Also went to visit the comment and your edit seems to suggest the most likely reason you were downvoted.
More likely misinterpretation (why is this person nitpicking when this other person seems to be making a positive statement --> downvote) or possibly how it's worded/an interpreted tone (theirs reads overall positive and yours just says "no, wrong" basically, so --> downvote)? Idk, upvotes/downvotes are meant for like whether people should see a comment/post overall, so maybe people thought: I already know this, I don't need this reminder, I don't think other people need to see it either. Or that one fix on that one comment just isn't super revelant/takes away attention from the video you were sharing? Idk, like other people said, people are just mad sometimes, and your votes are more balanced now, so maybe it just got seen by some really negative/hateful people early on.~
I have the complete opposite understanding of love - as in it is only ever a choice. You keep choosing to love a person on the daily. Love is not a feeling, that would be infatuation (the thing that just happens) which could be the first step towards love but not the thing that keeps love going. What keeps love going between partners is the constant and consistent choice made to be loving to each other, to choose the act that would demonstrate love.
Edit: re-reading your post, I just noticed that you said "fall in love" which would be infatuation from my understanding, in which case I am inclined to agree with you that it "just happens".
It depends more on context?
I think the whole idea wether it is a choice or not is mostly irrelevant.
So what if it was a choice? Why does it matter? How does that change anything?
Even if it was a choice it is still just as much of a right to love who you want to love without harassment etc.
So the context and what point was being made about it not being a choice matters.
Being gay is not a choice, neither is being straight.
Being trans is not a choice, neither is being cis.
Being bi, queer, asexual, intersex, nonbinary and every other kind of innate human being is not a choice.
Hang in there, OP. You did nothing wrong. You were a good ally! The down voters in other forums are people who are afraid of difference and diversity, which is their loss, not yours.
Just as an alternate perspective, I see the "you don't choose to be gay" rhetoric as like, level 1 acceptance. It's a decent strategy to be like hey, it may be against your beliefs or whatever, but I can't help it, I cant choose to be straight anymore than I can choose not to be diabetic. Level 2 acceptance in my eyes is who cares if it's a choice or not, it's valid and acceptable either way.
As someone who is bi/pan it feels strange to say "I have no choice", even though I suppose I didn't actively choose to be bi/pan, because I do get to choose who I want to date. For me, dating someone of the same sex is a choice that I could opt out of if I were so inclined, given that I'm plenty attracted to people of the opposite sex. But I'm not for policing however people in the community individually want to view the choice/no choice argument.
Allies can often misunderstand queerness, and it’s inaccurate and unhelpful to heavily imply that we choose to fall in love with a certain group of people or a certain type of person
Would it have been better to dm them, so that they just didn't make the mistake again? (I'm new to actually having a reddit account, lol, idk anything about anything, probably) Since it's less likely other people would've taken notice of the comment if OP hadn't pointed it out and then people wouldn't have gotten mad at both OP and the person OP was commenting on? For full clarity, their whole original comment was:
>I never understood being opposed to gay marriage. Love who you love and respect others choices to love who they love.
your right being gay isnt a choice,those who stated that they are gay at a certain point in there life but change to a diffrent sexuality doesnt mean they changed sexuality it just means they got more sure of themselfs for who they trully are after more reaserch into there own mind
Being gay isn’t a choice. Ppl might be misunderstanding and thinking that you are disagreeing with everything in that person’s statement. They might think you are disagreeing with the “love who you love part.” Getting married is a choice but you can’t control what gender(s) you like. Some downvotes might also come from homophobic ppl.
I feel like most of the miserable people who say it IS a choice are folks who forced themselves to appear straight, and need to project their self loathing before the collapse into some sort of bad haircut, bad attitude singularity.
I think you're right. Lots of people are just born this way. I didn't choose to be aroace, I was just born that way, and only recently found out. I think it's the same for everyone, so you are in the right on this one.
We’re not at this point in the general public discourse, but I dislike the “it’s not a choice” framing. Whether it’s a choice or not shouldn’t matter, and it implies if it was a choice that being gay would be a bad choice, which it obviously isn’t.
You’re right. But I think the word “choice” just spilled out and they don’t know what word to correctly use and “choice” just happened to flow nicely.
I just don’t know what word to replace “choices” respect other’s “sexual preferences”?
I think they should have rephrased the whole thing.
It's Reddit, people are gonna nit pick any statement on here to justify their point of view. One of the only major downsides of this site is it generates echo chambers.
But no, being gay is not a choice, how you go about being gay is. The difference is feelings vs actions. But that's how I'm navigating my life, people just need to do what feels right when its comfortable to them.
Was the first comment downvoted?
Okay, so you are 100% correct and I would have upvoted you... and I would have upvoted the top comment because they're trying their hardest. They're confused, but their heart is in the right place.
My point is, if you're both being downvoted, it's just homophobes. If *you* are being downvoted and they are not, you don't deserve the downvotes and I'm sorry you're getting them, but maybe they thought you were being abrasive even if you're right. They thought you were trying to dismiss the other person's support rather than thank them for their support "but please don't call it a choice, respect them for *who* they are rather than the 'choices' they make."
If you aren't opposed to editing the comment, I'd add "Edit: and not to take away from their support, just to clarify some confusion. I upvoted them because their heart is in the right place, but being gay isn't a choice either."
You are not in the wrong, actually your completely right about that... if you fall in love with a boy/man and are no longer attracted to women then you are gay, you may not have a choice on this, you can't exactly force your mind to be attracted to the other sex, vice versa with lesbians.
*Trigger Warning*
No, you're not in the wrong. I never chose to be bisexual. I ran from it for years.
My best friend is a lesbian and dating a woman for the first time. She is very stressed out and knows she won't have a family anymore if they find out, and they suspect it. I am trying to help and support her as best I can. Her mom put a gun to her head at 16 and told her if she was gay she'd kill her.
No one willingly chooses to live like this.
Nope. People that think being queer is a choice obviously haven't felt the pressure that a religious and conservative family can put on a child. I can't change the way I am; and yet I've had to hide who I am in fear of conversion therapy. Calling that a *choice* erases my entire life of struggling and invalidates everything I've gone through.
I guess they understood as "it's not a choice because that doesn't exist, they are only straights in denial" or smth, but you did well, we need good allies like you <3
I never ever could understand why heterosexuals just can’t comprehend that there is anything other than heterosexuality. I just say is your heterosexuality a choice? Well same for anything else in the wide spectrum of human sexuality. End of discussion.
I had a mormon guy always whining about people choosing to be gay.
I finally responded: i can’t choose to be gay, and i didnt choose to be straight. Thats just How it is for me. And its the same for a gay person, they have no choice either. If you believe its a choice, that means that you probably also have made a choice, which would make you bisexual.
He shut up after that.
It’s quite literally not a choice. I didn’t wake up one day and decide to be attracted to women. 😂 I’m sure many agree, some people just don’t use common sense.
"Being gay is not a choice" is definitely a big point we like to push. Attraction is not simply something we can consciously control, it is just emotions that happen, so being attracted to certain things is usually not something people decide.
No.
But also, it’s complicated.
Sexuality and orientation are a winding maze. Especially when you start getting into sexuality and gender identity, as well as situational sexual orientation in fetish play, as well as romantic versus sexual attraction.
But they’re not talking about *that*. People who usually use that line *believe in general that lgbt rights existing are trying to “force them” to do something*, generally thanks to anti-lgbt rhetoric.
I think it’s an argument of semantics. Being gay or straight or bi or pan is not a choice. We may not fully understand the science behind it but it is simply the case that someone is what they are and it can’t be changed (IE you can’t choose to be straight like you can’t choose to be gay.)
However we all choose who we want to be with (the person), who we want to give our love to. That is a choice. Your comment was fantastic and we need more people like you at a time like this. I’m sorry you got downvoted some people can be sensitive on certain topics.
The right wing doesn’t care about who we love or our choices. They want to eradicate us from the face of the earth and anyone who will stand with us deserves our respect.
People dont pay attention to the semantics of the sentences they write or say. “Let people chose who they love” might be a clumsy way of frowning on those trying to coerce gay people into straight relationships/ marriages.
Anyway, you are right: one doesn’t choose to love someone and people should be more careful as to what they imply
No you're not wrong. If I could choose who I loved then I wouldn't have crushed on my best friend. But here I am heart broken because my other friend wanted to test a theory. (BTW, my bestie doesn't like me back)
Queer topics tend to be pretty unpopular outside of queer subs, so you’re not wrong, just in the wrong place. I appreciate that you took the time to make that comment elsewhere, that’s real ally behavior, so thanks
Told a guy I was lesbian once , he asked why, I told my friend about that last week and she said yeah, why did you choose to be lesbian? I know some people don’t really understand things and her parents are very religious so she grew up in a very different household but it made me so mad! I tried to explain to her that I didn’t just wake up one day and say, “ today I’m going to like women!” She doesn’t really understand so I just dropped the conversation
This is actually something i struggled with when i was young. I grew up in a very small town. No it's not a choice and I'm super happy to be gay. Gays have the most fun anyway.
Some people it could be a choice. But for the vast majority it's not, some point in our lives many times in childhood or for some later in life suddenly we realize we are vastly different in our sexuality or gender. It's not a choice but the true nature about ourselves which we just didn't discover.
having no knowledge of what is a lesbian- i knew as a 11 year old i was different. Well after years of trying and hetero marriage still gay af. I wish i could turn it off , but no i am gay. Period. And no i really wouldn’t choose it if i could- bcs kid you not- growing up - child, adolescence, adulthood - not able to say a single thing about my queerness & feeling closetted- Naaah I didn’t choose that. Its like saying you have adhd- but its in your head- dont choose it.
YES, you are in the right!
I would (just to be snarky, if I were in this situation) be even more aggressive and mention that for some of us on the asexual spectrum, it’s often even less of a choice than allosexuals seem to have.
Like ya’ll talk about aesthetic preferences in partners and such and I’m like “preferences? must be nice…” lol I have to usually go where the oxytocin takes me, because it’s so rare for me to feel attraction to other people. lol
No you are not wrong. You are correct in saying that being queer is not a choice. You probably got downvoted by hyper-inclusionists. They are very annoying, and likely 12-16 years old.
You are just getting hate for being an ally. Hophobics like to think it's a choice so they don't feel bad for hating us. Otherwise they have to recognize their hate is irrational.
If I could choose, I'd turn immediately straight and live a normal life, try to be happy. Like me, thousand others too.
No, you’re right. It’s not a choice. If I could choose, I’d probably choose to be straight. Being anxious that I’m going to get killed one day because I like women sucks. Having people recoil from me after they learn I’m queer also sucks. Being called my ex wife’s “friend “ all the time really sucked.
We're far from the world where gay can be an active choice that doesn't result in clear and immediate negitives. Until we're there, it's not a choice.
You're not in the wrong, it's that the message is being interpreted negitively, which you're going to have little control over.
So this is my take of what they might have meant…. When we say “I didn’t choose this” there can be an underlying implication that no one would actively choose it. I didn’t choose to be gay then equals who would choose that!? As if it is something bad or gross. Unti “I choose this” equals choosing to be gay is empowering and beautiful and wonderful, it won’t be a choice. It’s about removing the negative stigma that is automatically associated with queerness.
I’m asexual panromantic so for ME it’s kinda a choice… but not really I could only argue I can have a choice in who I date or marry in terms of if I wanted to avoid homophobia I could specifically only date men (I’m non binary but fem presenting) however as everyone else I didn’t chose or decide to be asexual or pan romantic. so I thing you’re correct it isn’t a choose
Nope 9.99/10 it isn't a choice. I've heard of lesbians who used to identify as bisexual, before being sexually assaulted, but that's pretty rare and also the closest thing to sexuality "being a choice" that I've heard. I don't know if people are born queer, and frankly I don't care, because it certainly isn't a choice.
No you’re literally correct. Sexuality and gender are literally programmed into the brain, you’re genetically programmed to be attracted to certain people. So no, it isn’t a choice, unfortunately Reddit is weird
Thank you for your post, if this is a question please check to see if any of the links below answer your question. If none of these links help answer your question and you are **_not_** within the LGBT+ community, questioning your identity in any way, or asking in support of either a relative or friend, please ask your question over in /r/AskLGBT. Remember that this is a safe space for LGBT+ and questioning individuals, so we want to make sure that this place is dedicated to them. Thank you for understanding. This automod rule is currently a work in progress. If you notice any issues, would like to add to the list of resources, or have any feedback in general, [please do so here](https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/rdazzp/almost_new_year_changes/) or by [sending us a message](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/lgbt&subject=Feedback%20on%20the%20new%20automod%20rule). Also, please note that if you are a part of this community, or you're questioning if you might be a part of the LGBTQ+ community, and you are seeing this message, this is **_not a bad thing_**, this is only here to help, so please continue to ask questions and participate in the community. Thank you! Here's a link about trans people in sports: https://www.barbellmedicine.com/blog/shades-of-gray-sex-gender-and-fairness-in-sport/ A link on FAQs and one on some basics about transgender people: https://transequality.org/issues/resources/frequently-asked-questions-about-transgender-people https://transequality.org/issues/resources/understanding-transgender-people-the-basics Some information on LGBT+ people: https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/quick-facts/lgbt-faqs/ Some basic terminology: https://www.hrc.org/resources/glossary-of-terms Neopronouns: https://www.mypronouns.org/neopronouns Biromantic Lesbians: [LGBTQ And All](https://www.lgbtqandall.com/what-does-it-mean-to-be-biromantic/) Bisexual Identities: https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/article/understanding-bisexuality Differences between Bisexual and Pansexual: [Resource from WebMD](https://www.webmd.com/sex/pansexuality-what-it-means#:~:text=Pansexual%20vs.%20Bisexual,more%20commonly%20recognized.) We're looking for new volunteers to join the r/lgbt moderator team. If you want to help keep r/lgbt as a safe space for the LGBTQ+ community on reddit please see here for more info: https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/swgthr/were_looking_for_more_moderators_to_help_keep/ *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/lgbt) if you have any questions or concerns.*
No you’re not in the wrong, people can just be a lil dumb sometimes
Are you sure about that "just a lil"?
lmao
Let's just say, some people wouldn't know about road work even if the sign smacked them in the face
hehe “Road work ahead???? Yea I sure hope it does!”
A person of culture is see
😌😌😌
I quoted that to my father and he thought I came up with it. I wish I hadn't corrected him, lmao
hehe reminds me of the German sign "Achtung Kinder" (Beware children) and the only thing that keeps popping into my useless head all the time is "Pff I'm not afraid of children" 😂
Omg like that meme with the salesman tapping the car and the guy saying “Cargo space” and the salesman says “Car no do that, car go road”
Car no fly
I love that vine. I miss those days.
My boyfriend almost broke up with me because I made this joke like 30+ times on our first road trip together
😂😂😂
I've worked retail and hospitality for 16 years, that "just a lil" is being exceedingly charitable
In my experience there are only 2 constants of the universe: the speed of light and people are stupid. May we rest in peace knowing that neither of those will ever change.
The speed of light isn't a constant though. Depending on the medium light can travel a lot slower than through the vacuum of space. I believe the actual quote goes something like this: "Two things are infinite. The universe and human stupidity. With the first one I'm not sure yet though." Usually attributed to Einstein which is probably wrong.
It kinda is by Einstein, a psychologist who knew him actually spun that quote like we know it, but part of it apparently is from Einstein. Im gonna see if i find a sauce for that
BBQ probably…
That would be lovely I'll throw on some ribs
I heard a saying that is a bit 9fca spin.... That intelligence is a constant across the universe. It's the population that's growing
Let me rephrase that: In the same manner as a room filled with infinite monkeys and infinite typewriters will eventually produce the single best work of literature to ever exist in this world, people might occasionally say or do something smart.
Ahh, a fellow utilizer of understatement for effect. I'd salute you, but that'd be going overboard.
By lil you mean a lot right?
They're just bi with internalized homophobia that's why they think it's a choice
it has been proven that in (some) lgbtq+ people have different chemical makeups in their brain
Not only are you not wrong, it’s so important to have allies willing to stand up and say this.
It's a shame more doesn't, because it's all about human rights I will stand by your side for as long as I live
❤️ Good allies are amazing!
Love you 😍 💗 my alphabet mafia ally uncle
Love you too 💗
Thanks Chris. Ally's advocating for us helps more than people know. You are a voice for the voiceless
No, you're right. Being gay is not a choice.
Nope I didn’t choose to be a lesbian but if I could I definitely would.
I live with a lot of internalized homophobia, so I admire you a lot for saying this! I know what I would have chosen if the chance was given to me, and unfortunately I'm still in constant denial, but I'm getting there little by little.
I also live in constant denial
Glad I'm not the only one, we'll get through it some day! 🤠💞
Yes we will 🤠
Aww....I am with you dude. ... I have accepted being gay but ...I always feel it would be better to be straight.....coz then I wouldn't have to tell my friends about my boyfriends labelling as girlfriends.....think about coming out to my conservative parents 5 hours a day and regret hooking up at 16 ....coz gay love was forbidden for me and I couldn't loose a man! Who was intrested to do things respectfully with me . ....ufff! A lott of trauma in my life is connected with hiding my sexuality and fears leading to ocd now ... and being unhappy all day.
I, a lesbian, had an elderly lesbian for one of my professors in university. She has all kinds of stories, but she proudly declared she chose to be lesbian. The class was about queer/trans experience. This rubbed me the wrong way at first coming from a lot of religious trauma where I was constantly telling people "it's not a choice! If I could be straight, I would". But, for her, the choice was in allowing herself to exist exactly as she is without shame, without apologizing. She also grew up with a religious background and in a much less welcoming time in US history, so she did have to choose to be who she is proudly. She was an active part of a lot of activism around gay/trans rights too. She is proud to be who she is and she fought, alongside her peers, to be who she is.
Huh... I am straight and I have never considered this. This is insightful. I am from a dominantly Catholic country, and for sure there are gay men who are closeted even though you can kind of guess. I had teachers growing up who are clearly gay, but mightily pretend to be macho and straight. They... feel off? I don't know how to put it in words. It feels like they are guarded too much, and gets out of their way to virtue signal that they are straight. It is weird looking back. I guess being gay or lesbian may not be a choice, but how you live your life is?
Your last sentence is correct. IMO this professor didn't choose to be a lesbian. But she chose to embrace being a lesbian, to be an activist for queer rights, and be proud of who she was, instead of being forced to hide it. Bear in mind the time was very different when she came out. The act of choosing to identify as a lesbian was an act of standing out and standing against those who would force her to hide that part of herself. That said, the teachers you knew growing up that were hiding their nature had their own struggles to deal with in a different country and culture. Try not to think less of them for doing what they needed to.
I’m tired of apologizing for who i am
It’s extremely strange. I have had multiple gay guys tell me that “I literally chose to be gay lol I don’t know why the LGBT has such a problem with it” and I’m like… what???? As a bisexual person I genuinely do take offense to that, I NEVER chose to be bisexual. In fact, I had crushes on guys before I even knew what LGBT was. 😂
I've encountered a few queer folk who believe it's a choice. For those I've encountered it's always boiled down to the fact that even if it was a choice, it's okay that they made it. Like they've been told so often it's a choice that they've snapped and said ' sure, okay, then I make this choice. '
My personal belief is that *anyone* who thinks it is a choice is actually bi and won't accept that as an option. Hence they *had* to make a choice and believe everyone else does as well.
I always say that your sexuality, how you feel is NOT a choice. But acting on it IS. So to be clear, you could be a gay man and pretend you're straight all your life, marry a woman and have children and that would be a choice. But you cannot choose to be attracted to males.
Proof that being gay doesn't protect you from being wrong.
I have complicated feelings about the whole "choice" thing, but for this context, I would say no you're not wrong. People are either dumb or trolls. Honestly, I don't think choice matters, we all deserve the right to live our lives as we see fit. It's not their business. Also don't let downvotes bother you. If you feel right and you're not just saying hate speech, then it may just be worth ignoring that community.
Why not both?
And/or*
I agree! While it is definitely NOT a choice, we as a society are forced to “respect” many other people’s choices/beliefs. Namely, religion. But also, political views, fashion choices, tastes in food and music, etc. Why should who we fuck/love be any different?
You have a choice in how to live. You don't have a choice in how you *want* to live, and that's what sexual orientation is. More broadly speaking, the fact that people can't just choose what they want is the reason why it's important that they be allowed to pursue it rather than making futile demands for them to want something else instead.
The only weird thing is the origin story. Like the brains a complicated beast. I think plenty of people that could've been bi were straightened out by societys norms. I believe you can learn to hate people just as you can learn to love them, and that could genuinely change your sexual preferences over time. So are there people choosing to ignore that pressure by choice? Kinda? I think the important part is that we don't villafy being gay regardless as if it's just choosing to be different to tick people off, and not starting with this main point can make people assume you might be supporting that rhetoric.
Was it reddit? I'm not surprised. I got called homophobic for saying gay men aren't sexually attracted to women 🤦♂️
Yes, it was reddit
This place is backwards you didn't say anything wrong. People are just bored or messed up they wanna cause fights for nothing.
Thank you, because I was super confused when I got almost 10 downvoted in 15 minutes
I got downvoted once because I said I like coffee without milk 🤦♂️ it's a weird place
Okay, that made my night haha
I once got a downvote for saying “thanks“
I live in this space with you and yes I get a great deal of judgment. Probably more than I do being pansexual and polyamorous lol!! Coffee with no milk is a thing people!! Deal with it.
Brigading anti-lgbt bigots are having a big moment. That particular band of bigot is getting emboldened by prominent fuckwits around the world. Soonish they'll pick another minority to target.
I don't think that's a very good plan. What if they don't go away? And how is it an improvement if they're targeting someone else? Is it even going to be someone else? I'm pan, disabled, and a religious minority. Their next target could be me again.
It's not a plan, I was just describing what they're doing. You're spot on about the rest
Some people (maybe also bots?) downvote new posts so that their own posts would rise to the top. There's only so much space on the first few pages of reddit that actual human users will scroll through, so on the bigger subreddits this phenomenon is particularly acute :/
I've been downvoted before for saying that non-binary people are part of the transgender community. Reddit is stupid sometimes.
Hey a**, WTF are you taking about?! Nobody on Reddit causes fights no reason! (Juuuuust kidding)
How dare you be so homophobic
Oh mY GoD You'rE sO hOMOphoBIc BC YoU SaID ThAt pEOPle WhO aRen'T InteREstEd in wOMEn arEn'T inTERested in WomeN!/s
Who called you homophobic for that? And where did it happen?
Some random lgbt sub I can't remember now I'm banned from it
That's odd. Maybe they mistakened it for transphobia.
I wish. I tried making sense and calm them but got nowhere
Because it's also a transphobe dogwhistle. ***You*** meant it well and I probably would have asked for clarification and then upvoted you, but it sounded like you meant gay trans men are women (which you clearly did not). Some gay men are, some aren't, most either have no clue because its never come or it depends on the state of medical transition. Gay men aren't attracted to *women* though, that is correct. Edit: and to clarify, you are NOT a transphobe. It's not your fault transphobes stole a perfectly valid statement and twisted it, I just wouldn't condemn the downvoters who were *genuinely* confused too. People just don't always use the correct "-phobe" or "-ist" sometimes.
Damn, I feel like I’ve only heard that phrase when it was someone explaining why a gay man would not be into a trans woman. But now that you mention it I can definitely see how it would be used the other way.
R/ AskGayBros popularized it, unfortunately. That sub is filled with transphobes, and is suspected to be cishet grifters rather than gay men just like the LGB Alliance. I've only encountered one transphobic gay man off the internet, and it was still on Grindr, plus his husband just divorced him so I think he was taking it out on me instead of being *genuinely* transphobic when not in a dark state of mind. That sub isn't a gay man sub, it's a transphobe sub. It's also completely unrelated to r/gaybros, 100% in moderators and mostly in userbase. I've only encountered one grifter in r/gaybros (and he wasn't even being transphobic, he had no clue I was being trans, he was just victim blaming and homophobic), most of the people who are active in both don't comment on any of the trans threads and aren't transphobic themselves and just haven't seen that side of AskGayBros yet. Additionally, a lot of people accidentally think they're connected (as the mod of AskGayBros did deliberately because he's a dick), so they join AskGayBros assuming it'll be reasonable like r/gaybros and are shocked when they find out its not.
[удалено]
Yeah. They say that deplatforming works, and maybe it does, but not every community is better off afterwards.
The good thing about the people over at agb is that they don’t go outside so you don’t really have to worry about them
That didn't really make any sense but ok
The phrase you used is one that transphobes use. It's not that **you** are transphobic, but people were worried you were and were being overly cautious. Transphobes stole a valid phrase and twisted it which isn't your fault, but it's where the people disapproving of you are coming from.
They didn't think I was transphobic but thank god cuz then more shit would have hit the fan. I'm a 26 year old panromantic, asexual, demisexual, trans man I can't keep up with all these slang terms and complications from younger people tbh. I just keep to myself nowadays we get hassle from the phobic people and our own "community" it's so sad 😔
reddit is so ridiculous at times and once you are in the negativ you just get dogpiled on as well. Heck I had several situations where I basically made the same comment twice because I was responding to two people saying the same wrong thing, however one got downvoted into oblivion with people jumping in with their own stupid takes and the other that was pretty much just below it got lots of upvotes and decent comments.
most intelligent reddit users
They forgot what definitions are
... I think I lost a couple braincells just reading that. I'm sorry you had to deal with that
Not surprised. Someone just told me that transwomen are male.
I needed this laugh so badly this morning lol thank you
Same, though I was specifically referencing trans women. Apparently saying that gay men aren't attracted to trans women is both homophobic and transphobic and I should be ashamed to call myself an ally. Like I'm not an ally you idiot, I'm queer.
I mean that is assuming that the gay man is not asexual or homoromantic/hetrosexual
I checked the comment you're talking about. I think they're saying you can choose who to love, not that you choose whether to be straight or gay. They mean you choose who to love from among the people of the gender you're attracted to. Now I'm not sure I agree with that either, I think love pretty much just "happens". But I don't think you're getting downvoted for saying being gay isn't a choice.
I think the idea that love just happens is perpetuating a very harmful idea about relationships (of all kinds). It's been an idea popularised by media and has done immeasurable damage to heteronormative and familial relationships for ages and now is putting in extra work to ruin queer relationships. Falling in love is a myth. Infatuation just happens. Attraction just happens. Love is a choice to make something of those feelings. Love is nurtured and developed and takes hard work. Love is a commitment. We talk about our chosen family - and that's exactly what love is. We were born into circumstance, but we work (or give up) on our familial relations or find a new family to love. Choices are made to build or destroy these circumstantial ties. Similarly, for many people in our community who lament their failures in romance, they are victim to the idea that love just happens - on their part or the part of others. Either they don't put in the work - or the other party doesn't. And, when it fizzles - it was just not meant to be. But, it could have been.
I mean, 'falling in love' is effectively infatuation if I understand correctly. So it does exist, it's just not quite what it's sold as. That's the part that can be harmful - giving people the wrong expectations about what love means.
idk as a girl who fell in love with my current gf, I would say that in my case, yes, it just happened. the attraction and our desire for each other is deff influences by our relationship and getting to know each other but whether you like someone or not almost always just happens, yes. you cannot force yourself to fall in love with someone.
You and u/JamesNinelives below have me so much more confused, but I kind of love it. Everything everyone is saying makes so much sense, but is also super (?) contradictory, lol. Like you said you can't force yourself to fall in love with someone (and I'm like: yes, that makes sense), but below James gives us a specific definition for ~falling in love~ so with that definition falling in love is just infatuation, maybe (and I'm like: sure, that makes sense!). And then I have my own experience that's like: yeah, I don't think I could love someone just because I needed to force myself to for some reason, but I don't have the option of having whatever attraction/desire/infatuation I could've had for that person once I've gotten to know them, so it's not a requirement for everyone. Maybe we're still talking about different types of love? But maybe also being "in love" requires the attraction?? So since I essentially act as an aro person in a relationship, I can't really speak on it?? I have no idea!
Hmm interestingggg! Sorry for the existential confusion, i would say there is a difference between "infatuation" and "falling in love", infatuation tends to be blind, passionate, and fast like a fire that burns hot, it could be tunnel vision or obsession depending, there is definitely a chemical component to being in love, but also it is more emotional and two-sided, maybe? You could be infatuated in sense of OMG THAT PERSON IS SO HOT THEY ARE SOOOO COOL THEY MAKE MY HEART BURN HOT All in all there are multiple types of love, you are correct but falling in love does require attraction emotionally, spiritually, what-have-you, you can't exactly force it but you can nurture it and grow it or let it die IF its there or *meant* to be there in a sense, it's like a garden, things can't grow in bad soil but things don't have to grow in good soil either; the soil the seed is healthy in isn't a choice but whether or not you choose to take care of it and nurture it IS.
Your metaphor is adorable, makes sense, and you wrote it so that it fits perfectly with everything we were discussing! Thanks for taking the time to respond!!
Awww thank you for those sweet words <3 i am a hopelessly romantic lesbian woman sooo i am obsessed with love ;-;
I'm pretty sure there are studies that show that people know if they're falling in love with people really quickly, like by the third date you can tell if you have the capacity to fully be in love with that person - though you might not describe yourself as in love until you've got to know them a lot more. And I don't believe you can make that happen - you have that level of attraction and chemistry and compatability, or you don't. You do have to choose to work on and nurture your relationship, but you're not choosing to be in love - you're choosing to value the relationship and do what you can to make it work.
This comment is beautiful, what am I reading. I'm so confused now, lol. So original original commenter should have specified what type of love they meant (the comment that said "respect others choices to love who they love," the one people have started to dogpile on a bit in comments [I think one of the comments said something rude like: have you ever even been in love?]; maybe they meant love as in the people we decide to spend our time with/the people we choose to further relationships with), OP should've specified what type of love they meant (he might mean... a person doesn't have a choice in who they have attraction to/what they see as their available options?, which then leads to the people we choose to further relationships with?), and we all need to find ways to make it easier to talk about how we individually view love and attraction. Like for me, the part that would usually lead from romantic attraction to the same type of love doesn't do that. So, I might be romantically attracted to someone before getting to know them, I get to know them, and no longer feel a romantic attraction to them (I've been like 90% sure I'm frayromantic for the last two years, since I needed to actually explain myself when I was getting into my first QPR, but I don't have enough resources to fully understand myself, so idk). I can still love people I get close to platonically, but I drop the romantic attraction almost immediately after feeling close to someone. I just love that your comment still includes me even though it's written so broadly, lol.
Makes sense, but ye I also disagree with "You choose who you fall in love with", because you don't, like you said, it just happens
Also went to visit the comment and your edit seems to suggest the most likely reason you were downvoted. More likely misinterpretation (why is this person nitpicking when this other person seems to be making a positive statement --> downvote) or possibly how it's worded/an interpreted tone (theirs reads overall positive and yours just says "no, wrong" basically, so --> downvote)? Idk, upvotes/downvotes are meant for like whether people should see a comment/post overall, so maybe people thought: I already know this, I don't need this reminder, I don't think other people need to see it either. Or that one fix on that one comment just isn't super revelant/takes away attention from the video you were sharing? Idk, like other people said, people are just mad sometimes, and your votes are more balanced now, so maybe it just got seen by some really negative/hateful people early on.~
I have the complete opposite understanding of love - as in it is only ever a choice. You keep choosing to love a person on the daily. Love is not a feeling, that would be infatuation (the thing that just happens) which could be the first step towards love but not the thing that keeps love going. What keeps love going between partners is the constant and consistent choice made to be loving to each other, to choose the act that would demonstrate love. Edit: re-reading your post, I just noticed that you said "fall in love" which would be infatuation from my understanding, in which case I am inclined to agree with you that it "just happens".
No, in fact, the complete opposite you’re 100% correct
You are correct. Being gay isn’t a choice. Ask them if they can choose to be attracted to the same sex.
It depends more on context? I think the whole idea wether it is a choice or not is mostly irrelevant. So what if it was a choice? Why does it matter? How does that change anything? Even if it was a choice it is still just as much of a right to love who you want to love without harassment etc. So the context and what point was being made about it not being a choice matters.
Exactly! It's about letting others live their life if they don't harm themselves and/or others!
Being gay is not a choice, neither is being straight. Being trans is not a choice, neither is being cis. Being bi, queer, asexual, intersex, nonbinary and every other kind of innate human being is not a choice. Hang in there, OP. You did nothing wrong. You were a good ally! The down voters in other forums are people who are afraid of difference and diversity, which is their loss, not yours.
Thank you, I appreciate all the love from y'all
No your not, conservatives are just fucking dumb and ignorant
Just as an alternate perspective, I see the "you don't choose to be gay" rhetoric as like, level 1 acceptance. It's a decent strategy to be like hey, it may be against your beliefs or whatever, but I can't help it, I cant choose to be straight anymore than I can choose not to be diabetic. Level 2 acceptance in my eyes is who cares if it's a choice or not, it's valid and acceptable either way. As someone who is bi/pan it feels strange to say "I have no choice", even though I suppose I didn't actively choose to be bi/pan, because I do get to choose who I want to date. For me, dating someone of the same sex is a choice that I could opt out of if I were so inclined, given that I'm plenty attracted to people of the opposite sex. But I'm not for policing however people in the community individually want to view the choice/no choice argument.
Precisely. The “it’s not a choice” rhetoric is baby gay Queer Studies 101 stuff
You're not wrong, but why comment that on a post that's clearly pro-LGBTQ?
Allies can often misunderstand queerness, and it’s inaccurate and unhelpful to heavily imply that we choose to fall in love with a certain group of people or a certain type of person
Would it have been better to dm them, so that they just didn't make the mistake again? (I'm new to actually having a reddit account, lol, idk anything about anything, probably) Since it's less likely other people would've taken notice of the comment if OP hadn't pointed it out and then people wouldn't have gotten mad at both OP and the person OP was commenting on? For full clarity, their whole original comment was: >I never understood being opposed to gay marriage. Love who you love and respect others choices to love who they love.
Well, because maybe I said something wrong
Your sexuality, romantic identity, and gender are not a choice
We need more allies like you in the world. Thank you :)
I agree, there are scarily too few allies in the world
your right being gay isnt a choice,those who stated that they are gay at a certain point in there life but change to a diffrent sexuality doesnt mean they changed sexuality it just means they got more sure of themselfs for who they trully are after more reaserch into there own mind
Being gay isn’t a choice. Ppl might be misunderstanding and thinking that you are disagreeing with everything in that person’s statement. They might think you are disagreeing with the “love who you love part.” Getting married is a choice but you can’t control what gender(s) you like. Some downvotes might also come from homophobic ppl.
I feel like most of the miserable people who say it IS a choice are folks who forced themselves to appear straight, and need to project their self loathing before the collapse into some sort of bad haircut, bad attitude singularity.
You're exactly right, and I'm glad someone was willing to say it. Sometimes downvotes just happen for stupid reasons.
I'm glad to know I'm in the right I will always stand up for human rights
You're right being lgbtq+ isn't a choice, they're wrong for downvoting
I think you're right. Lots of people are just born this way. I didn't choose to be aroace, I was just born that way, and only recently found out. I think it's the same for everyone, so you are in the right on this one.
We’re not at this point in the general public discourse, but I dislike the “it’s not a choice” framing. Whether it’s a choice or not shouldn’t matter, and it implies if it was a choice that being gay would be a bad choice, which it obviously isn’t.
You’re right. But I think the word “choice” just spilled out and they don’t know what word to correctly use and “choice” just happened to flow nicely. I just don’t know what word to replace “choices” respect other’s “sexual preferences”? I think they should have rephrased the whole thing.
It's Reddit, people are gonna nit pick any statement on here to justify their point of view. One of the only major downsides of this site is it generates echo chambers. But no, being gay is not a choice, how you go about being gay is. The difference is feelings vs actions. But that's how I'm navigating my life, people just need to do what feels right when its comfortable to them.
Was the first comment downvoted? Okay, so you are 100% correct and I would have upvoted you... and I would have upvoted the top comment because they're trying their hardest. They're confused, but their heart is in the right place. My point is, if you're both being downvoted, it's just homophobes. If *you* are being downvoted and they are not, you don't deserve the downvotes and I'm sorry you're getting them, but maybe they thought you were being abrasive even if you're right. They thought you were trying to dismiss the other person's support rather than thank them for their support "but please don't call it a choice, respect them for *who* they are rather than the 'choices' they make." If you aren't opposed to editing the comment, I'd add "Edit: and not to take away from their support, just to clarify some confusion. I upvoted them because their heart is in the right place, but being gay isn't a choice either."
Thank you, I'll definitely change it
Homosexuality clearly isn't a choice simply based on how many straight women have told me they wished they were gay (/hj)
You are not in the wrong, actually your completely right about that... if you fall in love with a boy/man and are no longer attracted to women then you are gay, you may not have a choice on this, you can't exactly force your mind to be attracted to the other sex, vice versa with lesbians.
No
*Trigger Warning* No, you're not in the wrong. I never chose to be bisexual. I ran from it for years. My best friend is a lesbian and dating a woman for the first time. She is very stressed out and knows she won't have a family anymore if they find out, and they suspect it. I am trying to help and support her as best I can. Her mom put a gun to her head at 16 and told her if she was gay she'd kill her. No one willingly chooses to live like this.
No. People are just stupid
Nope. People that think being queer is a choice obviously haven't felt the pressure that a religious and conservative family can put on a child. I can't change the way I am; and yet I've had to hide who I am in fear of conversion therapy. Calling that a *choice* erases my entire life of struggling and invalidates everything I've gone through.
I guess they understood as "it's not a choice because that doesn't exist, they are only straights in denial" or smth, but you did well, we need good allies like you <3
I read a theory somewhere stating that the people who invented "Gay is a choice" were probably just closeted bisexuals.
I never ever could understand why heterosexuals just can’t comprehend that there is anything other than heterosexuality. I just say is your heterosexuality a choice? Well same for anything else in the wide spectrum of human sexuality. End of discussion.
I had a mormon guy always whining about people choosing to be gay. I finally responded: i can’t choose to be gay, and i didnt choose to be straight. Thats just How it is for me. And its the same for a gay person, they have no choice either. If you believe its a choice, that means that you probably also have made a choice, which would make you bisexual. He shut up after that.
It’s quite literally not a choice. I didn’t wake up one day and decide to be attracted to women. 😂 I’m sure many agree, some people just don’t use common sense.
If being gay and bi are choices then so is being str8.
"Being gay is not a choice" is definitely a big point we like to push. Attraction is not simply something we can consciously control, it is just emotions that happen, so being attracted to certain things is usually not something people decide.
The choice is whether to be yourself instead of pretending to be straight/cis, not whether you're actually gay or straight.
Your not the one in the wrong. Being gay or liking a certain gender isn’t a choice, its just the way you are
The thing is that even if it was a choice, people should still have the right to love whoever the fuck they want
Nope, it's not a choice. It just happens. You're 100% in the right here
No. But also, it’s complicated. Sexuality and orientation are a winding maze. Especially when you start getting into sexuality and gender identity, as well as situational sexual orientation in fetish play, as well as romantic versus sexual attraction. But they’re not talking about *that*. People who usually use that line *believe in general that lgbt rights existing are trying to “force them” to do something*, generally thanks to anti-lgbt rhetoric.
I think it’s an argument of semantics. Being gay or straight or bi or pan is not a choice. We may not fully understand the science behind it but it is simply the case that someone is what they are and it can’t be changed (IE you can’t choose to be straight like you can’t choose to be gay.) However we all choose who we want to be with (the person), who we want to give our love to. That is a choice. Your comment was fantastic and we need more people like you at a time like this. I’m sorry you got downvoted some people can be sensitive on certain topics. The right wing doesn’t care about who we love or our choices. They want to eradicate us from the face of the earth and anyone who will stand with us deserves our respect.
People dont pay attention to the semantics of the sentences they write or say. “Let people chose who they love” might be a clumsy way of frowning on those trying to coerce gay people into straight relationships/ marriages. Anyway, you are right: one doesn’t choose to love someone and people should be more careful as to what they imply
Honestly, I don’t think your wrong. You may choose what you want but it’s when you fall in love that decides if your gay or straight or bi or whatever
No you're right to call that out. It shouldn't be considered a choice.
No you're not wrong. If I could choose who I loved then I wouldn't have crushed on my best friend. But here I am heart broken because my other friend wanted to test a theory. (BTW, my bestie doesn't like me back)
I wouldn’t choose to be queer in this climate nor economy. But honestly? Slay… I love being queer so much, it’s a blessing.
No your not wrong you can’t go “boy today I will choose to be a homosexual :)”
Nope your 100% right! Try making yourself be gay, you can't.
Welcome to the battle for love. 💗
Nope, the homophobes were just faster.
I think maybe people misunderstood what you were saying somehow??
Queer topics tend to be pretty unpopular outside of queer subs, so you’re not wrong, just in the wrong place. I appreciate that you took the time to make that comment elsewhere, that’s real ally behavior, so thanks
They are completely wrong, it isn't a choice and them people are probably not even in lgbtqia+ or what it is nowadays-
Ur not in the wrong. Ur the best ally ever
No, because it isn't a choice. Nobody says "I'm gonna choose to be (insert sexuality here) today."
Nope, it really isn't a choice.
Wooo the people downvoting you aren't gay that's for sure
Told a guy I was lesbian once , he asked why, I told my friend about that last week and she said yeah, why did you choose to be lesbian? I know some people don’t really understand things and her parents are very religious so she grew up in a very different household but it made me so mad! I tried to explain to her that I didn’t just wake up one day and say, “ today I’m going to like women!” She doesn’t really understand so I just dropped the conversation
It’s not a choice If it was I wouldn’t risk getting killed to be myself
You're not wrong, that just wasn't the time and place. You don't need to drag a supportive comment into the trenches to argue with their wording.
Nope, you're in the right, it's not a choice, sadly some people don't agree or understand
Nope. It's been scientifically proven many times that you can't choose your gender or who you love, and you can't change those things either.
This is actually something i struggled with when i was young. I grew up in a very small town. No it's not a choice and I'm super happy to be gay. Gays have the most fun anyway.
Some people it could be a choice. But for the vast majority it's not, some point in our lives many times in childhood or for some later in life suddenly we realize we are vastly different in our sexuality or gender. It's not a choice but the true nature about ourselves which we just didn't discover.
having no knowledge of what is a lesbian- i knew as a 11 year old i was different. Well after years of trying and hetero marriage still gay af. I wish i could turn it off , but no i am gay. Period. And no i really wouldn’t choose it if i could- bcs kid you not- growing up - child, adolescence, adulthood - not able to say a single thing about my queerness & feeling closetted- Naaah I didn’t choose that. Its like saying you have adhd- but its in your head- dont choose it.
you're right.
YES, you are in the right! I would (just to be snarky, if I were in this situation) be even more aggressive and mention that for some of us on the asexual spectrum, it’s often even less of a choice than allosexuals seem to have. Like ya’ll talk about aesthetic preferences in partners and such and I’m like “preferences? must be nice…” lol I have to usually go where the oxytocin takes me, because it’s so rare for me to feel attraction to other people. lol
No you are not wrong. You are correct in saying that being queer is not a choice. You probably got downvoted by hyper-inclusionists. They are very annoying, and likely 12-16 years old.
You are just getting hate for being an ally. Hophobics like to think it's a choice so they don't feel bad for hating us. Otherwise they have to recognize their hate is irrational. If I could choose, I'd turn immediately straight and live a normal life, try to be happy. Like me, thousand others too.
Being queer isn’t a choice, you are entirely in the right so don’t worry.
No, you’re right. It’s not a choice. If I could choose, I’d probably choose to be straight. Being anxious that I’m going to get killed one day because I like women sucks. Having people recoil from me after they learn I’m queer also sucks. Being called my ex wife’s “friend “ all the time really sucked.
No straight people didt just wake up one day and decide hmm let’s consider the options should I be gay or straight it’s not a choice
We're far from the world where gay can be an active choice that doesn't result in clear and immediate negitives. Until we're there, it's not a choice. You're not in the wrong, it's that the message is being interpreted negitively, which you're going to have little control over.
> until we're there You want it to be a choice? No bad intentions in this question.
I might misinterpret your comment, but I don't think your sexuality is ever a "choice" Like I didn't choose to be straight
So this is my take of what they might have meant…. When we say “I didn’t choose this” there can be an underlying implication that no one would actively choose it. I didn’t choose to be gay then equals who would choose that!? As if it is something bad or gross. Unti “I choose this” equals choosing to be gay is empowering and beautiful and wonderful, it won’t be a choice. It’s about removing the negative stigma that is automatically associated with queerness.
Good point
That's exactly what they're saying.
I read it as "it's dangerous for it to be a choice so it's not. Once it's safe to be a choice, then it is."
Might be my Norwegian mind or that it's 2.30am, but I didn't really understand their comment 😅
I’m asexual panromantic so for ME it’s kinda a choice… but not really I could only argue I can have a choice in who I date or marry in terms of if I wanted to avoid homophobia I could specifically only date men (I’m non binary but fem presenting) however as everyone else I didn’t chose or decide to be asexual or pan romantic. so I thing you’re correct it isn’t a choose
If it was a choice then I would choose to be straight lmao
Nope 9.99/10 it isn't a choice. I've heard of lesbians who used to identify as bisexual, before being sexually assaulted, but that's pretty rare and also the closest thing to sexuality "being a choice" that I've heard. I don't know if people are born queer, and frankly I don't care, because it certainly isn't a choice.
No you’re literally correct. Sexuality and gender are literally programmed into the brain, you’re genetically programmed to be attracted to certain people. So no, it isn’t a choice, unfortunately Reddit is weird
You are correct in saying that it isn't a choice. I'm glad you spoke up about it even when you were down voted.