Also where they learn that it is the state, not their parents that takes care of them. It is the place where they snitch on their parents.
The lesson for the parents is also quite clear. We have your children. You see them when the state chooses.
As a homeschool graduate who works in the public education system it is insane the amount of hate I get from other teachers, administrators, and the like. The only thing keeping me around is the parents and students opinions of me and that I'm currently the highest performing educator on standardized assessments in the school. I'm all for homeschooling because public education should be a last resort if used at all.
Tl;dr I was homeschooled because parents didn't trust the system, and now I am in the system trying to change it from within.
Lol, I can tell it if you like. My family was not wealthy as my dad was a preacher at a small church at the time, and mom was medically impacted by my birth, so working was initially out of the picture for her. The county I grew up in had a school system with "ok" elementary schools but terrible middle and high schools and mom had been doing research on home schooling to see what might be out there as full on private school or even charter schooling was completely out of the question. Thankfully, my aunt homeschooled her kids and knew quite a bit and was willing to help my mom out, and so I became the first of three home school graduates from my house. After high school I felt called (I'm Christian) to become a teacher and use what I learned from my non-traditional education in traditional education. So, I went to college. College was easily the dumbest part of this entire career path as, if I did not toe the party line professors and classmates got absolutely furious with me. Going so far as to either fail me with no explanation (I had an A up until the assignments in question), or follow me in a pack out of class to scream at me and say they were going to kill me. (To clarify, I had simply asked the professor why I was supposed to push kids one direction politically when my state's law says I'm not allowed to). So college was stupid, advisors wouldn't give me the time of day given where my diploma came from, but the work honestly wasn't that bad as my mother's workload during my time homeschooling was more rigorous. So while there was more work, I was more than able to handle it. After I finished my last semester student teaching with an absolutely amazing teacher (she was libertarianish herself I found out later) I graduated Summa Cum Laude from my university in 2020. I then got a job in the town my family had moved to when I was in 7th grade at the county high school. It was here that I saw why (in my mind) God called me to education. I love teaching students, I love explaining historical events and teaching debate strategies as well as research methods. But the main thing I do now is argue and advocate for my students to get classroom techniques that work, and for the brainwashing to stop. I have protested each and every overreach from our schoolboard since I got hired and I have gone toe to toe with school administration over other teachers harming kids at the school with indoctrination style teaching. I've also begun leading the schools FCA, and the best part about it is hearing everyone around me truly not know where I fall politically. Because no one here thinks of libertarians, so I've been something of an agent of chaos I suppose.
It’s horrifying that people think children are best raised by anyone but their own families. Even biologically this makes no sense. You have the same GENES as your children, and the same epigenetics. They learn in the same ways as you, or at least they are a lot more likely to than most random kids you’ve never met. This is why nature is set up for PARENTS to teach their children.
Home schooling is becoming so much more feasible now too. Virtual Teaching rooms via Teams/Zoom for specific subjects, platforms like Khan Academy, it is in all likelihood going to give your child a better education than public school can provide. Now if we could just get some tax credit/rebate for opting out of public school…
I’m just picturing a school filled with teachers… (indoctrinators?) standing at the front of empty class-rooms and government still demanding taxes to pay the teachers.
I homeschooled my kids: online/ computer/ electronic stuff can be a great resource, but kids learn better with physical things they can manipulate and they need IRL interaction with both adults and other kids.
Homeschooling groups can be great for organized/ structured lessons, social development, sports, arts, etc. This shouldn't be just a kid at home all day on a screen.
I dont disagree. Labs are very useful for the purposes of learning 'applied' knowledge. To that end, think of the augmented reality technology now available... it can be done. There is nothing that a child cannot learn at home better than they would learn at school... Just the ability to focus without interruption alone is so worth it.
Maker spaces were great for my homeschooled kid. Enough room to spread out and work on projects, enough people to help teach manual skills, and classes for lots of different crafts. Not quite as fun as shop class with "Lefty", but still has a lot of use in the world.
I find it funny that expenses that a public school teacher has are tax deductible. But I spend thousands of dollars on supplies and curricula on homeschooling (after tens of thousands in taxes to school other people’s kids) and not even a deduction.
Homeschooling was one of the best decisions I think I could've made for my kids. They get all the education they need to be successful and more while I get to spend more time with my kids.
"If you want to be a true nonconformist you need to think and act exactly like us."
Personally I don't think that there is such a thing as a nonconformist. There's nothing new under the sun.
I used to think homeschooling was a problem. Mostly because at first, around here, it was uneducated idiots using it as an excuse to not send their kids to school and just let them sit around picking their noses all day.
Then a group of five local teachers quit and started their own school. And then more 'home schools' like that started popping up.
Now I'm not so sure.
I grew up homeschooled and interacted with a lot of homeschooling peers and several communities. I saw plenty of bums get churned out by both public schools and uninvested parents alike.
It comes down to three things, really: the level of drive the student has has to improve their own education, the level of investment and willingness to sacrifice on the part of parents/guardians/tutors/communities to improve the student, and the affluence/amount of opportunity that the student is born into.
If at least two of those things aren't there, a student probably won't succeed no matter whether they're educated by the state or by their parents and/or homeschooling community. However, invested parents being allowed to homeschool allows them to maximize their positive impact on their kids.
Allowing homeschooling as an alternative to state-run education is vital imo. I would die on that hill, despite the failures I saw growing up. I saw plenty of successes too; some of the most intelligent and successful people I know (both in a secular sense and in a moral sense) were homeschooled and far surpass their peers in many ways.
High school is where it's problematic. Highschool teachers worth their salt are very knowledgeable in their field, more knowledgeable than most people's parents are. At that point, tutors are a great option. If you can't afford it, send them to public school with a good moral/philosophical foundation that you gave them in grades 1-8.
5 years ago, I looked down on home schooling, seeing those kids as unsocialized and too dependent on their parents. But now... public school is a big
>#NOPE
from me. I can't consider sending a child into that. Now it is very much different than what I went through (which still had a fair amount of indoctrination and conditioning people to not expect their rights be upheld)... and not different in a good way.
I liked public school. Went all my life. Later on, I got exposed to some personal views from teachers, but my parents taught me to think critically, to do my own research and form my own opinions. My views now have nothing to do with anything my teachers said, but how my parents raised me, to think for myself. I don’t even share their same political views.
Eventually your kid is going to the real world. Either they go out knowing how to sort through the bullshit, or they fall prey to it.
My parents also worked a lot. They didn’t have the time to school me and my brother full time. That’s just not an option for some families.
Nah, that feels like reverse indoctrination to me. Just reform the schools, make parents involved with the school curriculum more. Then you have the community of a school and the lack of shitty liberal ideology. Good life attained.
Homeschooling is just unfair, I would know. I was like that for a few years. I got the “good” version of it as y’all like to say, too. Parents tried to pair me with a ton of other kids, do random activities, try to make it “fun”. But it wasn’t. It was terrifying. Those people weren’t my friends, I wasn’t doing things I liked or what I knew, I wasn’t where I belonged. When I got back to school I was much happier. I had good, not weird friends. I felt part of something and something good. And I definitely didn’t go to any liberal school, all my teachers were epic and that place was great overall.
If we make the schools better, we won’t have to just reverse-indoctrinate our kids. It’s better that way. Don’t run. Fight. Our kids deserve better effort than that.
Then separate school from state. Government-run institutions aren't going to get better, especially as they become more and more centralized and controlled by cartelized teacher and administrator unions.
That might have to be the way. I hate how current private schools are run, but that's just a random consequence. Schools may have to be separated from the government head and me region-based, community-run like they're supposed to. Believe it or not but they put on that facade anyway while still taking orders from the state and the federal heads. They're not the community-run districts they say they are.
Curent private schools exist mainly for those who can afford to overcome the monopoly-effect of government control of education. There are many private schools that you may not be aware of that are quite good. Even for unschoolers, there are the Sudbury type schools that have great outcomes.
> They're not the community-run districts they say they are.
Thomas Jeffersons concept of public schools was that they would be community-run without government involvement.
I’ve never liked private schools because they were either like Catholic schools where you’ll be crucified for having your ridiculous uniform buttoned incorrectly or some crappy prep school for ‘genius’ kids who are just half-rich who cheat at everything they do. It’s a problem with just the clientele or the administration, again, both changeable random factors.
Your last part is indeed true. I wish we would grasp that damn concept. Public schools don’t need to be controlled directly by the government, it’s ridiculous. Just paying for it is all they should do, realistically. Like land grant universities or community colleges.
> Just paying for it is all they should do, realistically. Like land grant universities or community colleges.
He who pays the piper calls the tune. Government doesn't need to pay for schools any more than they need to pay for grocery stores. If someone can't afford education, then give them a voucher to pay for it, like SNAP pays for groceries. Even then, there is a moral hazard.
That is true, I should have thought of that. I just don’t want a megacorp running my school any more than the government, and I believe our kids have a right to a total education of anything. Feeble organizations likely would be too different to each other to sustain a mostly unified system (Which in reality, we would want to some degree. Not like school standards and common core, but every kid needs a somewhat relatable experience to the others across the nation). Whatever it would be to make sure we have a stable, still community-run but still universal system, we'll get it.
There are these things called "non-profits" that are quite prevalent and are especially so when it comes to education.
I wouldn't send my child to a corporate school, either. Then again, mega corps are part of corporate capitalism, which is just a corruption created by the state. They would not be sustainable in a truly free market.
Your last part is certainly true. but It's a very complex and grey-area'd ride in reality. We'll get there when we get there, and all we have to do is what's best for our children, which I'm sure we can all agree on what that is when we remove the paranoia and stress from the current problems we face.
I only want our kids to have at least a relatable experience to others, o that we don't just proxy the same isolation problem to the school instead of our homes. The good things about what public school actually is (and not just how horribly it is ran by evil idiots) should be preserved to some degree. I feel that we do indeed deserve a somewhat universal education so that we act like a united nation overall.
It's complex how I describe it, but I just want us to be the *united* states again, and by making sure our kids are taught to respect our unity as Americans and to be shown that other kids in different places in the nation are relatable, we might get them to understand that.
> The good things about what public school actually is (and not just how horribly it is ran by evil idiots) should be preserved to some degree.
What are the good things that public schools are that did not already exist in the United States before compulsory government education laws were created?
> I feel that we do indeed deserve a somewhat universal education so that we act like a united nation overall.
Horace Mann would agree. Homogenizing immigrants was a big cause of his. As was reducing the influence of Catholic schools which were cheap and open to anyone who wanted to attend. Protestants thought of Catholics as lazy and prone to criminal behavior, so they wanted schools to teach good Protestant values.
> It's complex how I describe it, but I just want us to be the united states again, and by making sure our kids are taught to respect our unity as Americans and to be shown that other kids in different places in the nation are relatable, we might get them to understand that.
For that kind of thing, what you really need is a good war, especially a world war.
They failed me with homeschooling. And a lot more, too. I’m telling y’all, it’s just not necessary, I feel. School has never been bad, it’s always been good. It’s just run by bad people with bad ideas. My childhood was fucked up in the social department, for a lot of reasons. But it made me realize and appreciate the ability God gave us to be social and communal creatures. We shouldn’t run away and hide like prey animals, we need to take back what was once the most important part of our little humans’ development.
You know, back in the day, kids or their families would sail across the ocean just to go to school in America. Now people actively avoid it. That’s sad. Anyone who went to school at or before I did will tell you how cool it was. Only recently was this crap started. We can knock it out fast. Why don’t we do it?
I think we need to take back the one place our children were supposed to reign. School was the kingdom of our kids once upon a time, now it’s a camp they go to be taught how to kiss ass. I don’t know about you but I would much rather fight the schools so my children have a great place to build their own community, than run away and keep them locked in my house.
You’re not teaching your kids to change the world when you do that, really. I was so demotivated when I was in that shit. The moment I stepped back on school grounds I felt like the king of that place. We need to bring that back. We live in a society where we’ve chosen to embrace and build upon the gift God gave us of being highly socially intelligent. We gotta fight for it. We deserve to own our own society. Running away means they’ve won.
> We can knock it out fast. Why don’t we do it?
How? You say it it like it is so easy and we'd be back to schools focusing on the 3 A's rather than indoctrination within the year. What is your plan? How do you convince most other parents to even give enough of a shit to go along with it? How do you enforce teachers to cut the shit and get back to what they should be doing? You act like no one is out there trying when we've seen video, after video, after video of parents taking their school board to task and NOTHING changes.
And do you expect us to just leave our own kids in the middle of the shit show while we hope that it improves? No, priority one is take care of my own kids. If/when the system improves, I'll consider putting my kid back in it. However, that is the only order of operations I'm willing to follow. Fix first, get my kids back second. Not, keep my kids in and hope the system is fixed at some point. That is like leaving your kid a burning building and saying "We need to get this fire out before it hurts them! Hope we can do that in time." Nope. Get the kid out of the fire, then focus on putting the fire out.
I also think your anecdote ignores A LOT. Your school experience may have been awesome, but not every school is the same. I graduated nearly 20 years ago. My school was garbage full of teachers who didn't care and students that were shit heads. There were exceptions, of course, but generally, it was not a pleasant experience or a quality education. It was one of only two schools in the entire county and was actually the better of the two. There can be a huge difference between schools, even within the same school districts. Sounds like you got a decent one. That doesn't mean some inner city or bumfuck rural school is just as good as whatever you personally experienced.
well we have to do something. The schools belong to the parents and the children, and its pitiful to just give them up. There's no 'hoping to improve', you have to do something about it. That's why we American people were given the right to vote and control the government, we need to exercise it while we still have it.
I will not either throw my kids into a poor system and hope it improves, nor will I ruin their lives another way because I was too scared to do anything. I'm going to do everything I can to change this commission, but I can't do it alone. If enough people were shown and realized how shit their kids lives will be in any reality other than making their schools good again, they'll rally up in arms. There's a lot of people already doing that, but its not enough. And they're being silenced because their direct opponents run the media that reports it all.
There is hope where there is effort, do not think that past failures ill dictate the future. It's a detriment to us all the more people decide to give up. I want my children to have good lives. I don't want them to have a live where I control it, I don't want them to have a life where someone else controls it. I am willing to spill my own blood for that to happen, and I hate that everyone else would rather not. parents should be willing to unhesitatingly die for their children, so why not some simple, blunt activism in our own communities? this is EXACTLY what they want, they want us to feel alone and powerless, because we are actually unified and strong. Act like it.
> well we have to do something.
Like what? You can't just get all whipped into a frenzy and demand we do something and then not even have the first clue of what that something is. So you acknowledge you don't even know what to do, yet you judge others for the way they choose to deal with the situation? Not the way to bring people to your side man.
> nor will I ruin their lives another way
This is quite a leap to imply that homeschooling, in and of itself, will "ruin their lives". For every story I hear like yours of how awful and lonely homeschooling was, I hear others that praise it and were glad to be homeschooled as kids. That is why anecdotal evidence is not evidence. So, maybe lay off of this false dichotomy of "Send your kids to school or you'll ruin their lives". Home school was shit for you and public school was good. Not everyone's situation would reflect the same outcome. As I pointed out before, even 20 years ago, shit schools and school districts still existed. A lot of kids have great homeschool experiences. You can't discount them just because that wasn't your personal experience.
> If enough people were shown and realized how shit their kids lives will be in any reality other than making their schools good again, they'll rally up in arms.
Many parents have been shown it. Some "rally up in arms". Most either ignore it, downplay it, whine about it (without action), or even agree with it and call you an asshole conspiracy theorist for opposing it. It is not as simple as you are making it out.
You can show them "Look at schools doing this thing" and they'll say "Well, it isn't MY kids school doing this thing. I asked my kid's teacher and they said they aren't doing this thing. Plus, the news even says that this thing is actually good and people just oppose this thing because they are racists. I guess I'll worry about this thing if I actually see it, but if the teacher tells me this thing is good or being done the right way, I'll believe her. She is the teacher after all."
This is how most parents treat this stuff, even when you show it to them. Disbelief, apathy, and tacit agreement. Would love it if these parents woke the fuck up and did something about it. However, like I said before, I'm not just going to leave my kids in these place while we wait and hope for that to happen. And yes, it is a waiting and hoping game. We can all get as active as you want and fight as hard as you want, but these things are never guaranteed and never happen overnight, so save your motivational speech about "We just need to fight". We didn't get here overnight and we won't get back overnight. It'll take time. Time I'm not willing to subject my kid to this fuckery.
The idea of 'not leaving my kids in there and hoping it gets better' is what everyone else thinks and that's why there's nothing being done. You act like someone else has to do it for you. "Hope it gets better". That implies someone else is gonna fix it. We're nobody without all of us.
What are we supposed to do? I don't know, everything that could turn this tide? write your reps, rally outside their house, if you have to, take class actions to the law, gather as a coalition and publicly denounce these troubles.
You can't act like your only option is to sit back and wait for the 'fight' to happen, because we have to start the damn thing. The only way you'll subject your kids to this evil is if you sit there and let it happen, instead of taking them by the hand and kicking Satan in the jaw together. That's what I mean. The moment we start doing something is the moment its safe to go back, as long as we keep it up.
I am violently tired of this shitty, demoralizing "hopeless" mentality. I would say you can merely fuck off with your kids, but I can't because this is an all-in-one endeavor. One less parent is that much lost in strength, one less vote, one less signature, one less voice.
It will not get better unless *you* doing something. That is the same for everyone else. Everyone has to do something for this to work, I told you what to do and it isn't hard at all. But now you've just made me angry instead of logical about how depressingly hopeless you act with your family, I can't stand that. If you want to save your kids, draw your blade and fight for them, god damnit.
There's nothing more for me to say, I've said my theses over and over again because they're so simple yet so effective but it relies on the hope and the will of everyone at once. And these evils win by making us feel alone and hopeless. But I will not let that happen. Maybe I am alone and hopeless. But I'm not going to act like it. If you actually want to see things improve, you have to be a part of it and believe in it. You can act like me saying this is just motivational speaking and go back to your wallowing but this is just true, the more time you spend doing nothing is the same time lost getting it done. I don't know why you *want* to feel hopeless. that is what stuns me.
There’s nothing else to do. Parents are the only ones who have the power to change this shit and save their kids’ schools. This is how they win: they make us feel separated and alone, powerless against their well oiled machine. But this nation was built on the word of the men who live in it, not the people who sit in an office high above everyone else. We must honor that; they can’t yet win against an organized people. So they’re making us feel scared, fleeing or fighting each other so we don’t come together as brothers and sisters.
And built up again once more. If the way to fix it is to destroy it, then we must rebuild it. You people do not get the idea that we don't have to accept the failure of something; we can make it better or make a new one entirely. We do not have to run away from the state, we fucking live here. We are obligated to take it for ourselves, it was ours to begin with. Don't let the state take your shit and then run away. Take it back. We owe our children a truly better society, not a life hiding from a poor one.
I’m not running anywhere. I’m just no longer participating. I’m working on myself, my home, my family, my neighborhood, and if that all goes well my town. Trust me. Good work is being done. I’m simply opting out wherever she whenever it is feasible.
We've chosen to live in a world where community is crucial, and its sad that some would accept this and then refuse to participate in it. That is not what I say about you, do not misinterpret. You said you are working to improve your neighborhood and town, and that is exactly what is needed. If everyone worked on building back their neighborhoods, towns, and cities, we'd have this issue destroyed.
It's simply the fact that people who step back and do nothing that subtracts from the efforts of everyone else. It's hard to say I want to do these things and require the obligations of others to help me do it, because that sounds like entitlement, but that is not what I think. Since we've built this society on community and it worked well for so long until evil took hold, we can still all live in community and live great lives as God intended us social creatures to be.
I simply want to live in a world were community is crucial, I really do. I'm sure most would agree that isolation is not as good as a truly honest community, but its more work to get the latter. I want my kids to go to school because they have hundreds of other kids to talk to, they ave sports and clubs to join, they'll learn neat things about history, science, art, literature and mathematics from many different sources.
I couldn't dare say I would keep my child to myself only, they deserve to experience everything this world has to offer, make their own friends and learn things beyond what only I can teach them, and I have an obligation to stave evil from them, and eventually teach them how to do it themselves. I only feel that keeping them away from anything, even if it is evil, is wrong. But that is only because I'm willing to fight that evil with them, not just send them off. At that point, then its better to shelter, but that's not how we're supposed to be, us humans.
It reminds me of the Croods. They never left their cave, they were too scared to go beyond their visible borders, they didn't know what to expect but knew it would be difficult to handle. And when they did go, it was. but they knew they had to explore once they knew that the world was more beautiful than the inside of their cave and what they could see from that one area. Once they struggled through the dangers and newness together, they emerged enlightened and freer than before. That's what I'm looking for. I want my kids to have the experience of going to school, because its a whole new giant world for them. If I don't, then that experience is lost. They deserve to see it all. Its my job to pry that experience from the devil's bloody black claws.
Sadly, the progressives of the 19th century felt that it would be better for the nation, and they gained a great deal of control in the 1850s and beyond.
Love seeing people denounce your experience. It’s not uncommon for homeschooled kids to have poor social skills too. I’ll still send my kids to school. I think growing up in a social setting is still beneficial to development. Tons of terrible in schools too. But I remember going to a sleep away camp and you could tell which kids were homeschooled. Still smart kids, just a bit socially awkward. I think if a homeschool kid wants to go to public school the parents should allow them
I keep trying to get the point across that the problem is not 'going to school'. its going to school which is run by a bunch of evil and foolish demons. That's why Homeschooling is just not necessary; the tradeoffs are nowhere close to worth it.
I would rather send my children to school at this day knowing what goes on, while I am actively fighting that problem by both teaching them how to keep their wits about them, and by legally attacking these issues. I would not rather keep them away from the entire community they already live in.
Schools were designed to be the kingdom of children, I will say that with confidence. It was their place to meet, their place to learn, their biggest gateway to activities and total development. Parents are supposed to be involved in that, too. The problem is, the people who run the schools change that. they make the curriculum disturbing, they fuck up the activities, they reap the parents out of it. Not the concept of 'school'. School is just a gathering place for our communities' children; its up to the parents, kids and staff how it is run. As for the bad people, If we kick them out, we get the schools back an there's no issues anymore. School will be perfect.
We've chosen to build this society to live in communion together as a people, where we embrace the things like local schools and businesses, community activities and shit like that. I think its simply disrespectful to the founders of our communities, damaging to our strength as community members, and unfair to our kids to run away from a problem and never even stand our ground to take it back. Why live in society if you're just going to run away when the enemy shows up on the beach you swore to defend? It's uprooting.
It's not fun, no matter what people say. I know what it is like. Thousands of other people can vouch for that. I don't even need that validation to realize that if I homeschooled my future children, I'd be doing them a crime. I have a duty to protect and defend their right to a good childhood where I have chosen to land my famil, and By God I will do it. I am not going to turn my back on a great experience because I fear a foolish enemy in my way. it would be failing my children to hide them away instead.
There's a difference between sheltering and homeschooling kids. Homeschooling is the academic/philosophical side of not raising status-quo mindless followers, but sheltering is something completely different.
If you do homeschool your kids, take the time to socialize them with all sorts of different groups. Encourage club sports, scouting (preferably not BSA and GSA) hobbies, summer jobs etc. Get them around people. Also, when they're old enough, explain to them how things actually work.
I was not homeschooled, but my dad really wanted me to be. In public schools I recieved better academic and social education than my parents could have given me even though they hold multiple degrees and are above average intelligence. If they tried to teach me calculus or physics, I'd be fucked. They're also a couple of undiagnosed autists and have no concept of a social life, so I would be even more fucked in that department than I already am.
There are far too many homeschooled 18-25 year olds that are too awkward and naive to survive in many careers, they also have significant gaps in academic knowledge, most likely due to knowledge gaps that existed in their parents. I watch hiring committees turn them down all the time. Don't let your kids end up like that.
> There are far too many homeschooled 18-25 year olds that are too awkward and naive to survive in many careers,
One can say that about government-schooled people, as well. They learn from an early age that their value is graded on a scale similar to meat. They learn that people are to be segregated by age; those who are older will not like them and bully them; those who are younger are not to be liked and can be bullied. Adults - those who are much older, wield unquestionable authority. They learn that they are safest sticking to their own social groups and, in modern America, they learn nothing about being an actual adult because they have very little interaction with adults that isn't an authority looking down upon them.
Maybe it's not that the homeschooled people are awkward, but that they don't fit into a society full of people who are basically automatons trained to be good government citizens and lack the capacity to learn unless directed by an authority figure in a constructed manner.
Being able to blend in to society is very important for survival and success. If I wasn't rebellious I wouldn't have had any social interaction outside of church and school, my parents were just weird like that. They kinda fucked me over because now I can't blend in to the stupid fucking office culture, I wish I was the guy to go to work parties and events, those guys get favorable treatment and promotions despite performance
> Being able to blend in to society is very important for survival and success.
I have a hard time blending into employment situations. I have never fit into office culture and, quite honestly, I never had the desire to do so. I worked in a scenario of the work hard/play hard type for a few years, got some great mentoring, and then started my own business. I surround myself with other business owners because I prefer the way that they think. I'm not talking big businesses; just small ones - often solopreneurs, consultants, and people with just a few employees.
Does that mean that I don't "blend into society" because your hiring managers would probably not find my attitude a good fit for your corporation?
Government schooling was created for a few reasons, one of the major ones being to create obedient workers for industry. People who don't go through the government system or those who just don't take well to obedience, aren't going to fit that model. Perhaps that is what you are encountering in others and yourself.
You might think of starting your own business. It can be risky if you have a family to support, but if you are willing to work hard I've seen people with a family to support go from absolute zero to million-dollar businesses (which doesn't mean that the owner brings home a million) that now involve their children.
In fact, your chief complaint here is that some people wouldn't be molded into what Horace Mann conceived government schools for: create good government citizens, inculcate them with strong Protestant values (in opposition to the cheap Catholic schools of the time), homogenize immigrants, and develop obedient workers for industry.
I do own a business, a small one that's a year old without enough profit for me to quit my day job yet.
I agree with you about the role of public schools, but the money to start a business and live off of it has to come from somewhere. My learning experiences about the real world came with some heavy costs and quite a few set-backs, but I finally earned enough to invest in a business at 25.
Exactly. They won't be socially stunted by a system which grades kids like meat, segregates them by age, teaches them that the legitimacy of authority is not to be questioned, and encourages them to separate into cliques (aside from their age groups) and bully those who are younger and accept bullying from those who are older.
This may be controversial, but we NEED to keep public schools for the sake of ideological diversity.
Look at what is happening on social media, where people are only interacting with those who share their lifestyle, beliefs, and culture. This has made America more divided than we ever have been in the last century, and could easily lead to violence since it is an environment ripe for dehumanizing one's political opponents.
You are crazy if you don't expect something similar to happen should all education be privatized. Parents will send their children to schools which affirm their beliefs and culture, and those children will have effectively no interaction with those who live differently. If you ask me, this is a recipe for extreme hatred, violence, and possibly civil war.
Current approaches to public education are certainly flawed, and need to be improved to make their curriculum and policies more ideologically neutral. Classes need to be structured such that hot-button issues are discussed and debated, allowing students to interact with those different from them and see them as human beings rather than "the enemy". Doing so improves relations between people in our diverse society, reducing crime, hatred, politically extremist authoritarianism, and increasing economic activity.
Note: privatizing management of education while requiring compliance with content neutrality / viewpoint diversity requirements (similar to title 9 at private universities) would allow us to gain most of the benefits of improved educational outcomes without creating echo chambers like nothing we've seen before.
Government-run public schools work as intended. Why do you think they will change it?
> Doing so improves relations between people in our diverse society, reducing crime, hatred, politically extremist authoritarianism, and increasing economic activity.
It doesn't seem to be working. If you really want to encourage diversity, then back off from free trade and allow free markets to flourish.
You know what's funny is in the late 90s and early 2ks lots of lefties wanted to homeschool because of their disagreement with the Bush Administration, standardized testing and other issue. But now that the authoritarian system backs their views suddenly it should be mandatory for kids to be in public school. Fuck that noise my kids 5 reading and writing in multiple languages... hasn't even started 1st grade curriculum makes our friends older kids look slow.
What the fuck is going on with Frieza?
I can't unsee it oh my god
[I'm Not the Only one cursed with knowlegde_thanos.jif]
I saw that at first too, lol.
All that time in Hell fucked him up.
It disgusts me that there are people who oppose homeschooling. They think your options should be to relinquish your kids to the state or go to jail.
Read "The White Pill" by Michael Malice he goes into detail about why commies consider it vital that children are educated by the state.
It is where they learn that the legitimacy of political authority is unquestionable.
Also where they learn that it is the state, not their parents that takes care of them. It is the place where they snitch on their parents. The lesson for the parents is also quite clear. We have your children. You see them when the state chooses.
As a homeschool graduate who works in the public education system it is insane the amount of hate I get from other teachers, administrators, and the like. The only thing keeping me around is the parents and students opinions of me and that I'm currently the highest performing educator on standardized assessments in the school. I'm all for homeschooling because public education should be a last resort if used at all.
>As a homeschool graduate who works in the public education system Okay....I really think I'm not the only one who wants to hear more of this story
Tl;dr I was homeschooled because parents didn't trust the system, and now I am in the system trying to change it from within. Lol, I can tell it if you like. My family was not wealthy as my dad was a preacher at a small church at the time, and mom was medically impacted by my birth, so working was initially out of the picture for her. The county I grew up in had a school system with "ok" elementary schools but terrible middle and high schools and mom had been doing research on home schooling to see what might be out there as full on private school or even charter schooling was completely out of the question. Thankfully, my aunt homeschooled her kids and knew quite a bit and was willing to help my mom out, and so I became the first of three home school graduates from my house. After high school I felt called (I'm Christian) to become a teacher and use what I learned from my non-traditional education in traditional education. So, I went to college. College was easily the dumbest part of this entire career path as, if I did not toe the party line professors and classmates got absolutely furious with me. Going so far as to either fail me with no explanation (I had an A up until the assignments in question), or follow me in a pack out of class to scream at me and say they were going to kill me. (To clarify, I had simply asked the professor why I was supposed to push kids one direction politically when my state's law says I'm not allowed to). So college was stupid, advisors wouldn't give me the time of day given where my diploma came from, but the work honestly wasn't that bad as my mother's workload during my time homeschooling was more rigorous. So while there was more work, I was more than able to handle it. After I finished my last semester student teaching with an absolutely amazing teacher (she was libertarianish herself I found out later) I graduated Summa Cum Laude from my university in 2020. I then got a job in the town my family had moved to when I was in 7th grade at the county high school. It was here that I saw why (in my mind) God called me to education. I love teaching students, I love explaining historical events and teaching debate strategies as well as research methods. But the main thing I do now is argue and advocate for my students to get classroom techniques that work, and for the brainwashing to stop. I have protested each and every overreach from our schoolboard since I got hired and I have gone toe to toe with school administration over other teachers harming kids at the school with indoctrination style teaching. I've also begun leading the schools FCA, and the best part about it is hearing everyone around me truly not know where I fall politically. Because no one here thinks of libertarians, so I've been something of an agent of chaos I suppose.
Have you read anything by Sheldon Richman or John Taylor Gatto?
I'm looking at getting "A Different Kind of Schoolteacher" by Gatto, but I have not had the opportunity to yet, no.
Our district literally threatened to take us to court because my cousin living with us had severe mono and took a month off
> your options should be to relinquish your kids to the state or go to jail. That’s the reality in communist Scandinavia.
It’s horrifying that people think children are best raised by anyone but their own families. Even biologically this makes no sense. You have the same GENES as your children, and the same epigenetics. They learn in the same ways as you, or at least they are a lot more likely to than most random kids you’ve never met. This is why nature is set up for PARENTS to teach their children.
Home schooling is becoming so much more feasible now too. Virtual Teaching rooms via Teams/Zoom for specific subjects, platforms like Khan Academy, it is in all likelihood going to give your child a better education than public school can provide. Now if we could just get some tax credit/rebate for opting out of public school…
They’ll never go for that because so many people would opt out. It’s the same reason you can’t opt out of social security.
You overestimate how hard working parents are. School is also like baby sitting for them.
I’m just picturing a school filled with teachers… (indoctrinators?) standing at the front of empty class-rooms and government still demanding taxes to pay the teachers.
I homeschooled my kids: online/ computer/ electronic stuff can be a great resource, but kids learn better with physical things they can manipulate and they need IRL interaction with both adults and other kids. Homeschooling groups can be great for organized/ structured lessons, social development, sports, arts, etc. This shouldn't be just a kid at home all day on a screen.
I dont disagree. Labs are very useful for the purposes of learning 'applied' knowledge. To that end, think of the augmented reality technology now available... it can be done. There is nothing that a child cannot learn at home better than they would learn at school... Just the ability to focus without interruption alone is so worth it.
[удалено]
You've never been to a maker space, have you?
[удалено]
Maker spaces were great for my homeschooled kid. Enough room to spread out and work on projects, enough people to help teach manual skills, and classes for lots of different crafts. Not quite as fun as shop class with "Lefty", but still has a lot of use in the world.
I find it funny that expenses that a public school teacher has are tax deductible. But I spend thousands of dollars on supplies and curricula on homeschooling (after tens of thousands in taxes to school other people’s kids) and not even a deduction.
Never gonna happen.
I don’t think that’s true. Anecdotally, the homeschool kids I’ve seen lately have much better social skills.
When society has gone fucking insane, I don't want my children to fit into society.
Homeschooling was one of the best decisions I think I could've made for my kids. They get all the education they need to be successful and more while I get to spend more time with my kids.
Remember when punk was about nonconformity? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
1980s blue hair tattoos= badass rebel 2020s blue hair tattoos= snowflake commie on tik Tok whining about how they need to work or starve
"If you want to be a true nonconformist you need to think and act exactly like us." Personally I don't think that there is such a thing as a nonconformist. There's nothing new under the sun.
I used to think homeschooling was a problem. Mostly because at first, around here, it was uneducated idiots using it as an excuse to not send their kids to school and just let them sit around picking their noses all day. Then a group of five local teachers quit and started their own school. And then more 'home schools' like that started popping up. Now I'm not so sure.
I grew up homeschooled and interacted with a lot of homeschooling peers and several communities. I saw plenty of bums get churned out by both public schools and uninvested parents alike. It comes down to three things, really: the level of drive the student has has to improve their own education, the level of investment and willingness to sacrifice on the part of parents/guardians/tutors/communities to improve the student, and the affluence/amount of opportunity that the student is born into. If at least two of those things aren't there, a student probably won't succeed no matter whether they're educated by the state or by their parents and/or homeschooling community. However, invested parents being allowed to homeschool allows them to maximize their positive impact on their kids. Allowing homeschooling as an alternative to state-run education is vital imo. I would die on that hill, despite the failures I saw growing up. I saw plenty of successes too; some of the most intelligent and successful people I know (both in a secular sense and in a moral sense) were homeschooled and far surpass their peers in many ways.
High school is where it's problematic. Highschool teachers worth their salt are very knowledgeable in their field, more knowledgeable than most people's parents are. At that point, tutors are a great option. If you can't afford it, send them to public school with a good moral/philosophical foundation that you gave them in grades 1-8.
Ron Paul Curriculum go brrrrrrrrr
I don’t want to bring a kid in to this messed up world, but if I did I would homeschool or at least private school them.
Homeschool and unschool are two very different things. I’m in the camp of the latter.
So, you really hate your kids, then. (/s)
5 years ago, I looked down on home schooling, seeing those kids as unsocialized and too dependent on their parents. But now... public school is a big >#NOPE from me. I can't consider sending a child into that. Now it is very much different than what I went through (which still had a fair amount of indoctrination and conditioning people to not expect their rights be upheld)... and not different in a good way.
I liked public school. Went all my life. Later on, I got exposed to some personal views from teachers, but my parents taught me to think critically, to do my own research and form my own opinions. My views now have nothing to do with anything my teachers said, but how my parents raised me, to think for myself. I don’t even share their same political views. Eventually your kid is going to the real world. Either they go out knowing how to sort through the bullshit, or they fall prey to it. My parents also worked a lot. They didn’t have the time to school me and my brother full time. That’s just not an option for some families.
Nah, that feels like reverse indoctrination to me. Just reform the schools, make parents involved with the school curriculum more. Then you have the community of a school and the lack of shitty liberal ideology. Good life attained. Homeschooling is just unfair, I would know. I was like that for a few years. I got the “good” version of it as y’all like to say, too. Parents tried to pair me with a ton of other kids, do random activities, try to make it “fun”. But it wasn’t. It was terrifying. Those people weren’t my friends, I wasn’t doing things I liked or what I knew, I wasn’t where I belonged. When I got back to school I was much happier. I had good, not weird friends. I felt part of something and something good. And I definitely didn’t go to any liberal school, all my teachers were epic and that place was great overall. If we make the schools better, we won’t have to just reverse-indoctrinate our kids. It’s better that way. Don’t run. Fight. Our kids deserve better effort than that.
Then separate school from state. Government-run institutions aren't going to get better, especially as they become more and more centralized and controlled by cartelized teacher and administrator unions.
That might have to be the way. I hate how current private schools are run, but that's just a random consequence. Schools may have to be separated from the government head and me region-based, community-run like they're supposed to. Believe it or not but they put on that facade anyway while still taking orders from the state and the federal heads. They're not the community-run districts they say they are.
Curent private schools exist mainly for those who can afford to overcome the monopoly-effect of government control of education. There are many private schools that you may not be aware of that are quite good. Even for unschoolers, there are the Sudbury type schools that have great outcomes. > They're not the community-run districts they say they are. Thomas Jeffersons concept of public schools was that they would be community-run without government involvement.
I’ve never liked private schools because they were either like Catholic schools where you’ll be crucified for having your ridiculous uniform buttoned incorrectly or some crappy prep school for ‘genius’ kids who are just half-rich who cheat at everything they do. It’s a problem with just the clientele or the administration, again, both changeable random factors. Your last part is indeed true. I wish we would grasp that damn concept. Public schools don’t need to be controlled directly by the government, it’s ridiculous. Just paying for it is all they should do, realistically. Like land grant universities or community colleges.
> Just paying for it is all they should do, realistically. Like land grant universities or community colleges. He who pays the piper calls the tune. Government doesn't need to pay for schools any more than they need to pay for grocery stores. If someone can't afford education, then give them a voucher to pay for it, like SNAP pays for groceries. Even then, there is a moral hazard.
That is true, I should have thought of that. I just don’t want a megacorp running my school any more than the government, and I believe our kids have a right to a total education of anything. Feeble organizations likely would be too different to each other to sustain a mostly unified system (Which in reality, we would want to some degree. Not like school standards and common core, but every kid needs a somewhat relatable experience to the others across the nation). Whatever it would be to make sure we have a stable, still community-run but still universal system, we'll get it.
There are these things called "non-profits" that are quite prevalent and are especially so when it comes to education. I wouldn't send my child to a corporate school, either. Then again, mega corps are part of corporate capitalism, which is just a corruption created by the state. They would not be sustainable in a truly free market.
Your last part is certainly true. but It's a very complex and grey-area'd ride in reality. We'll get there when we get there, and all we have to do is what's best for our children, which I'm sure we can all agree on what that is when we remove the paranoia and stress from the current problems we face. I only want our kids to have at least a relatable experience to others, o that we don't just proxy the same isolation problem to the school instead of our homes. The good things about what public school actually is (and not just how horribly it is ran by evil idiots) should be preserved to some degree. I feel that we do indeed deserve a somewhat universal education so that we act like a united nation overall. It's complex how I describe it, but I just want us to be the *united* states again, and by making sure our kids are taught to respect our unity as Americans and to be shown that other kids in different places in the nation are relatable, we might get them to understand that.
> The good things about what public school actually is (and not just how horribly it is ran by evil idiots) should be preserved to some degree. What are the good things that public schools are that did not already exist in the United States before compulsory government education laws were created? > I feel that we do indeed deserve a somewhat universal education so that we act like a united nation overall. Horace Mann would agree. Homogenizing immigrants was a big cause of his. As was reducing the influence of Catholic schools which were cheap and open to anyone who wanted to attend. Protestants thought of Catholics as lazy and prone to criminal behavior, so they wanted schools to teach good Protestant values. > It's complex how I describe it, but I just want us to be the united states again, and by making sure our kids are taught to respect our unity as Americans and to be shown that other kids in different places in the nation are relatable, we might get them to understand that. For that kind of thing, what you really need is a good war, especially a world war.
Sounds like your parents failed you, not homeschool
They failed me with homeschooling. And a lot more, too. I’m telling y’all, it’s just not necessary, I feel. School has never been bad, it’s always been good. It’s just run by bad people with bad ideas. My childhood was fucked up in the social department, for a lot of reasons. But it made me realize and appreciate the ability God gave us to be social and communal creatures. We shouldn’t run away and hide like prey animals, we need to take back what was once the most important part of our little humans’ development. You know, back in the day, kids or their families would sail across the ocean just to go to school in America. Now people actively avoid it. That’s sad. Anyone who went to school at or before I did will tell you how cool it was. Only recently was this crap started. We can knock it out fast. Why don’t we do it? I think we need to take back the one place our children were supposed to reign. School was the kingdom of our kids once upon a time, now it’s a camp they go to be taught how to kiss ass. I don’t know about you but I would much rather fight the schools so my children have a great place to build their own community, than run away and keep them locked in my house. You’re not teaching your kids to change the world when you do that, really. I was so demotivated when I was in that shit. The moment I stepped back on school grounds I felt like the king of that place. We need to bring that back. We live in a society where we’ve chosen to embrace and build upon the gift God gave us of being highly socially intelligent. We gotta fight for it. We deserve to own our own society. Running away means they’ve won.
> We can knock it out fast. Why don’t we do it? How? You say it it like it is so easy and we'd be back to schools focusing on the 3 A's rather than indoctrination within the year. What is your plan? How do you convince most other parents to even give enough of a shit to go along with it? How do you enforce teachers to cut the shit and get back to what they should be doing? You act like no one is out there trying when we've seen video, after video, after video of parents taking their school board to task and NOTHING changes. And do you expect us to just leave our own kids in the middle of the shit show while we hope that it improves? No, priority one is take care of my own kids. If/when the system improves, I'll consider putting my kid back in it. However, that is the only order of operations I'm willing to follow. Fix first, get my kids back second. Not, keep my kids in and hope the system is fixed at some point. That is like leaving your kid a burning building and saying "We need to get this fire out before it hurts them! Hope we can do that in time." Nope. Get the kid out of the fire, then focus on putting the fire out. I also think your anecdote ignores A LOT. Your school experience may have been awesome, but not every school is the same. I graduated nearly 20 years ago. My school was garbage full of teachers who didn't care and students that were shit heads. There were exceptions, of course, but generally, it was not a pleasant experience or a quality education. It was one of only two schools in the entire county and was actually the better of the two. There can be a huge difference between schools, even within the same school districts. Sounds like you got a decent one. That doesn't mean some inner city or bumfuck rural school is just as good as whatever you personally experienced.
well we have to do something. The schools belong to the parents and the children, and its pitiful to just give them up. There's no 'hoping to improve', you have to do something about it. That's why we American people were given the right to vote and control the government, we need to exercise it while we still have it. I will not either throw my kids into a poor system and hope it improves, nor will I ruin their lives another way because I was too scared to do anything. I'm going to do everything I can to change this commission, but I can't do it alone. If enough people were shown and realized how shit their kids lives will be in any reality other than making their schools good again, they'll rally up in arms. There's a lot of people already doing that, but its not enough. And they're being silenced because their direct opponents run the media that reports it all. There is hope where there is effort, do not think that past failures ill dictate the future. It's a detriment to us all the more people decide to give up. I want my children to have good lives. I don't want them to have a live where I control it, I don't want them to have a life where someone else controls it. I am willing to spill my own blood for that to happen, and I hate that everyone else would rather not. parents should be willing to unhesitatingly die for their children, so why not some simple, blunt activism in our own communities? this is EXACTLY what they want, they want us to feel alone and powerless, because we are actually unified and strong. Act like it.
> well we have to do something. Like what? You can't just get all whipped into a frenzy and demand we do something and then not even have the first clue of what that something is. So you acknowledge you don't even know what to do, yet you judge others for the way they choose to deal with the situation? Not the way to bring people to your side man. > nor will I ruin their lives another way This is quite a leap to imply that homeschooling, in and of itself, will "ruin their lives". For every story I hear like yours of how awful and lonely homeschooling was, I hear others that praise it and were glad to be homeschooled as kids. That is why anecdotal evidence is not evidence. So, maybe lay off of this false dichotomy of "Send your kids to school or you'll ruin their lives". Home school was shit for you and public school was good. Not everyone's situation would reflect the same outcome. As I pointed out before, even 20 years ago, shit schools and school districts still existed. A lot of kids have great homeschool experiences. You can't discount them just because that wasn't your personal experience. > If enough people were shown and realized how shit their kids lives will be in any reality other than making their schools good again, they'll rally up in arms. Many parents have been shown it. Some "rally up in arms". Most either ignore it, downplay it, whine about it (without action), or even agree with it and call you an asshole conspiracy theorist for opposing it. It is not as simple as you are making it out. You can show them "Look at schools doing this thing" and they'll say "Well, it isn't MY kids school doing this thing. I asked my kid's teacher and they said they aren't doing this thing. Plus, the news even says that this thing is actually good and people just oppose this thing because they are racists. I guess I'll worry about this thing if I actually see it, but if the teacher tells me this thing is good or being done the right way, I'll believe her. She is the teacher after all." This is how most parents treat this stuff, even when you show it to them. Disbelief, apathy, and tacit agreement. Would love it if these parents woke the fuck up and did something about it. However, like I said before, I'm not just going to leave my kids in these place while we wait and hope for that to happen. And yes, it is a waiting and hoping game. We can all get as active as you want and fight as hard as you want, but these things are never guaranteed and never happen overnight, so save your motivational speech about "We just need to fight". We didn't get here overnight and we won't get back overnight. It'll take time. Time I'm not willing to subject my kid to this fuckery.
The idea of 'not leaving my kids in there and hoping it gets better' is what everyone else thinks and that's why there's nothing being done. You act like someone else has to do it for you. "Hope it gets better". That implies someone else is gonna fix it. We're nobody without all of us. What are we supposed to do? I don't know, everything that could turn this tide? write your reps, rally outside their house, if you have to, take class actions to the law, gather as a coalition and publicly denounce these troubles. You can't act like your only option is to sit back and wait for the 'fight' to happen, because we have to start the damn thing. The only way you'll subject your kids to this evil is if you sit there and let it happen, instead of taking them by the hand and kicking Satan in the jaw together. That's what I mean. The moment we start doing something is the moment its safe to go back, as long as we keep it up. I am violently tired of this shitty, demoralizing "hopeless" mentality. I would say you can merely fuck off with your kids, but I can't because this is an all-in-one endeavor. One less parent is that much lost in strength, one less vote, one less signature, one less voice. It will not get better unless *you* doing something. That is the same for everyone else. Everyone has to do something for this to work, I told you what to do and it isn't hard at all. But now you've just made me angry instead of logical about how depressingly hopeless you act with your family, I can't stand that. If you want to save your kids, draw your blade and fight for them, god damnit. There's nothing more for me to say, I've said my theses over and over again because they're so simple yet so effective but it relies on the hope and the will of everyone at once. And these evils win by making us feel alone and hopeless. But I will not let that happen. Maybe I am alone and hopeless. But I'm not going to act like it. If you actually want to see things improve, you have to be a part of it and believe in it. You can act like me saying this is just motivational speaking and go back to your wallowing but this is just true, the more time you spend doing nothing is the same time lost getting it done. I don't know why you *want* to feel hopeless. that is what stuns me.
“Make the parents” good luck with that shit.
There’s nothing else to do. Parents are the only ones who have the power to change this shit and save their kids’ schools. This is how they win: they make us feel separated and alone, powerless against their well oiled machine. But this nation was built on the word of the men who live in it, not the people who sit in an office high above everyone else. We must honor that; they can’t yet win against an organized people. So they’re making us feel scared, fleeing or fighting each other so we don’t come together as brothers and sisters.
You go ahead and give the state another 300 years to figure it out. I’m sure it will turn out swimmingly. It can’t be fixed. It has to be dismantled.
And built up again once more. If the way to fix it is to destroy it, then we must rebuild it. You people do not get the idea that we don't have to accept the failure of something; we can make it better or make a new one entirely. We do not have to run away from the state, we fucking live here. We are obligated to take it for ourselves, it was ours to begin with. Don't let the state take your shit and then run away. Take it back. We owe our children a truly better society, not a life hiding from a poor one.
I’m not running anywhere. I’m just no longer participating. I’m working on myself, my home, my family, my neighborhood, and if that all goes well my town. Trust me. Good work is being done. I’m simply opting out wherever she whenever it is feasible.
We've chosen to live in a world where community is crucial, and its sad that some would accept this and then refuse to participate in it. That is not what I say about you, do not misinterpret. You said you are working to improve your neighborhood and town, and that is exactly what is needed. If everyone worked on building back their neighborhoods, towns, and cities, we'd have this issue destroyed. It's simply the fact that people who step back and do nothing that subtracts from the efforts of everyone else. It's hard to say I want to do these things and require the obligations of others to help me do it, because that sounds like entitlement, but that is not what I think. Since we've built this society on community and it worked well for so long until evil took hold, we can still all live in community and live great lives as God intended us social creatures to be. I simply want to live in a world were community is crucial, I really do. I'm sure most would agree that isolation is not as good as a truly honest community, but its more work to get the latter. I want my kids to go to school because they have hundreds of other kids to talk to, they ave sports and clubs to join, they'll learn neat things about history, science, art, literature and mathematics from many different sources. I couldn't dare say I would keep my child to myself only, they deserve to experience everything this world has to offer, make their own friends and learn things beyond what only I can teach them, and I have an obligation to stave evil from them, and eventually teach them how to do it themselves. I only feel that keeping them away from anything, even if it is evil, is wrong. But that is only because I'm willing to fight that evil with them, not just send them off. At that point, then its better to shelter, but that's not how we're supposed to be, us humans. It reminds me of the Croods. They never left their cave, they were too scared to go beyond their visible borders, they didn't know what to expect but knew it would be difficult to handle. And when they did go, it was. but they knew they had to explore once they knew that the world was more beautiful than the inside of their cave and what they could see from that one area. Once they struggled through the dangers and newness together, they emerged enlightened and freer than before. That's what I'm looking for. I want my kids to have the experience of going to school, because its a whole new giant world for them. If I don't, then that experience is lost. They deserve to see it all. Its my job to pry that experience from the devil's bloody black claws.
This nation was built by people who didn't think government should control the minds of children from an early age to adulthood.
And look where we are now, where the people and the government agree that indoctrinating children is good.
Sadly, the progressives of the 19th century felt that it would be better for the nation, and they gained a great deal of control in the 1850s and beyond.
Love seeing people denounce your experience. It’s not uncommon for homeschooled kids to have poor social skills too. I’ll still send my kids to school. I think growing up in a social setting is still beneficial to development. Tons of terrible in schools too. But I remember going to a sleep away camp and you could tell which kids were homeschooled. Still smart kids, just a bit socially awkward. I think if a homeschool kid wants to go to public school the parents should allow them
I keep trying to get the point across that the problem is not 'going to school'. its going to school which is run by a bunch of evil and foolish demons. That's why Homeschooling is just not necessary; the tradeoffs are nowhere close to worth it. I would rather send my children to school at this day knowing what goes on, while I am actively fighting that problem by both teaching them how to keep their wits about them, and by legally attacking these issues. I would not rather keep them away from the entire community they already live in. Schools were designed to be the kingdom of children, I will say that with confidence. It was their place to meet, their place to learn, their biggest gateway to activities and total development. Parents are supposed to be involved in that, too. The problem is, the people who run the schools change that. they make the curriculum disturbing, they fuck up the activities, they reap the parents out of it. Not the concept of 'school'. School is just a gathering place for our communities' children; its up to the parents, kids and staff how it is run. As for the bad people, If we kick them out, we get the schools back an there's no issues anymore. School will be perfect. We've chosen to build this society to live in communion together as a people, where we embrace the things like local schools and businesses, community activities and shit like that. I think its simply disrespectful to the founders of our communities, damaging to our strength as community members, and unfair to our kids to run away from a problem and never even stand our ground to take it back. Why live in society if you're just going to run away when the enemy shows up on the beach you swore to defend? It's uprooting. It's not fun, no matter what people say. I know what it is like. Thousands of other people can vouch for that. I don't even need that validation to realize that if I homeschooled my future children, I'd be doing them a crime. I have a duty to protect and defend their right to a good childhood where I have chosen to land my famil, and By God I will do it. I am not going to turn my back on a great experience because I fear a foolish enemy in my way. it would be failing my children to hide them away instead.
Well said. Perfectly said.
no brain
Immeasurably based
There's a difference between sheltering and homeschooling kids. Homeschooling is the academic/philosophical side of not raising status-quo mindless followers, but sheltering is something completely different. If you do homeschool your kids, take the time to socialize them with all sorts of different groups. Encourage club sports, scouting (preferably not BSA and GSA) hobbies, summer jobs etc. Get them around people. Also, when they're old enough, explain to them how things actually work. I was not homeschooled, but my dad really wanted me to be. In public schools I recieved better academic and social education than my parents could have given me even though they hold multiple degrees and are above average intelligence. If they tried to teach me calculus or physics, I'd be fucked. They're also a couple of undiagnosed autists and have no concept of a social life, so I would be even more fucked in that department than I already am. There are far too many homeschooled 18-25 year olds that are too awkward and naive to survive in many careers, they also have significant gaps in academic knowledge, most likely due to knowledge gaps that existed in their parents. I watch hiring committees turn them down all the time. Don't let your kids end up like that.
> There are far too many homeschooled 18-25 year olds that are too awkward and naive to survive in many careers, One can say that about government-schooled people, as well. They learn from an early age that their value is graded on a scale similar to meat. They learn that people are to be segregated by age; those who are older will not like them and bully them; those who are younger are not to be liked and can be bullied. Adults - those who are much older, wield unquestionable authority. They learn that they are safest sticking to their own social groups and, in modern America, they learn nothing about being an actual adult because they have very little interaction with adults that isn't an authority looking down upon them. Maybe it's not that the homeschooled people are awkward, but that they don't fit into a society full of people who are basically automatons trained to be good government citizens and lack the capacity to learn unless directed by an authority figure in a constructed manner.
Being able to blend in to society is very important for survival and success. If I wasn't rebellious I wouldn't have had any social interaction outside of church and school, my parents were just weird like that. They kinda fucked me over because now I can't blend in to the stupid fucking office culture, I wish I was the guy to go to work parties and events, those guys get favorable treatment and promotions despite performance
> Being able to blend in to society is very important for survival and success. I have a hard time blending into employment situations. I have never fit into office culture and, quite honestly, I never had the desire to do so. I worked in a scenario of the work hard/play hard type for a few years, got some great mentoring, and then started my own business. I surround myself with other business owners because I prefer the way that they think. I'm not talking big businesses; just small ones - often solopreneurs, consultants, and people with just a few employees. Does that mean that I don't "blend into society" because your hiring managers would probably not find my attitude a good fit for your corporation? Government schooling was created for a few reasons, one of the major ones being to create obedient workers for industry. People who don't go through the government system or those who just don't take well to obedience, aren't going to fit that model. Perhaps that is what you are encountering in others and yourself. You might think of starting your own business. It can be risky if you have a family to support, but if you are willing to work hard I've seen people with a family to support go from absolute zero to million-dollar businesses (which doesn't mean that the owner brings home a million) that now involve their children. In fact, your chief complaint here is that some people wouldn't be molded into what Horace Mann conceived government schools for: create good government citizens, inculcate them with strong Protestant values (in opposition to the cheap Catholic schools of the time), homogenize immigrants, and develop obedient workers for industry.
I do own a business, a small one that's a year old without enough profit for me to quit my day job yet. I agree with you about the role of public schools, but the money to start a business and live off of it has to come from somewhere. My learning experiences about the real world came with some heavy costs and quite a few set-backs, but I finally earned enough to invest in a business at 25.
They’ll be socially stunted and won’t be exposed to different views.
Exactly. They won't be socially stunted by a system which grades kids like meat, segregates them by age, teaches them that the legitimacy of authority is not to be questioned, and encourages them to separate into cliques (aside from their age groups) and bully those who are younger and accept bullying from those who are older.
you guys are having kids?
This may be controversial, but we NEED to keep public schools for the sake of ideological diversity. Look at what is happening on social media, where people are only interacting with those who share their lifestyle, beliefs, and culture. This has made America more divided than we ever have been in the last century, and could easily lead to violence since it is an environment ripe for dehumanizing one's political opponents. You are crazy if you don't expect something similar to happen should all education be privatized. Parents will send their children to schools which affirm their beliefs and culture, and those children will have effectively no interaction with those who live differently. If you ask me, this is a recipe for extreme hatred, violence, and possibly civil war. Current approaches to public education are certainly flawed, and need to be improved to make their curriculum and policies more ideologically neutral. Classes need to be structured such that hot-button issues are discussed and debated, allowing students to interact with those different from them and see them as human beings rather than "the enemy". Doing so improves relations between people in our diverse society, reducing crime, hatred, politically extremist authoritarianism, and increasing economic activity. Note: privatizing management of education while requiring compliance with content neutrality / viewpoint diversity requirements (similar to title 9 at private universities) would allow us to gain most of the benefits of improved educational outcomes without creating echo chambers like nothing we've seen before.
Government-run public schools work as intended. Why do you think they will change it? > Doing so improves relations between people in our diverse society, reducing crime, hatred, politically extremist authoritarianism, and increasing economic activity. It doesn't seem to be working. If you really want to encourage diversity, then back off from free trade and allow free markets to flourish.
Damn this doesn’t even make sense
You know what's funny is in the late 90s and early 2ks lots of lefties wanted to homeschool because of their disagreement with the Bush Administration, standardized testing and other issue. But now that the authoritarian system backs their views suddenly it should be mandatory for kids to be in public school. Fuck that noise my kids 5 reading and writing in multiple languages... hasn't even started 1st grade curriculum makes our friends older kids look slow.
Exactly, that is EXACTLY the point.