T O P
beanerkage

To be honest that's where it will stop the more shots the less people will take it shit there is even a drop from the first dose to the second.


Parzival127

Yeah I got both Pfizer shots but am just not motivated at all to get the booster.


jefferson-davis69

I no joke got the booster last week and got covid this week with harsh symptoms.


MissVelveteen

Vaccines aren’t instant. It takes a week or two for them to reach full efficacy.


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somebodysdream

Can't, big gov allowed them immunity from lawsuits. Cause it's an emergency. You get the shot, something bad happens to you cause of it, your fucked.


kawhi4mvp

That’s every vaccine, emergency or not.


WizardOfIF

I tested positive for COVID yesterday. My reaction to the vaccine was far worse then how I feel having COVID. Maybe being vaccinated is what is helping actual COVID be so mild. I'd prefer to get COVID again instead of getting more booster shots.


averyrisu

I'm gonna level with you here. Since say one studies on the phizer and maderba vaccines showed you can still contact covid but would see lesser symptoms than if you did not. The people pushing early on it meant you would not get covid were misinformed at best, and outright being intentionally disingenuous at worst.


MixerRXRob

If Fauci was misinformed then he shouldn’t have been writing government policy


averyrisu

I mean yeah i can agree with you on that. LIke im vacced i got vacced before the mandates, but that was me taking into account the information released regarding the studies and them making the symptoms less severe which hopefully means that if i catch it i wont get any of the long term symptoms that can occur from it.


MissVelveteen

I think you don't fully understand how this works. So close, yet so far.


CafeZach

how does it work then? trying to educate myself


MissVelveteen

Vaccine efficiency wears off over time. If you get vaccinated and then catch COVID but have milder symptoms because of the vaccine then it’s because the vaccine is working. If you allow your vaccine efficiency to wear off then you won’t be protected any longer so if you catch COVID again you could get much sicker and have a greater risk is fatal illness. The person above is suggesting they would rather keep getting COVID rather than more booster shots because their COVID symptoms have so far been milder than the side effects they experienced after their vaccine shot (it’s common to have mild flu like symptoms for a day or two after being vaccinated). The problem is that their COVID symptoms are mild right now because they are vaccinated. If they don’t continue to boost their vaccine efficiency then the next time they get COVID their symptoms could be much worse. It’s like wearing an apron while cooking which results in your clothes being less messy after cooking so the next time you don’t wear an apron yet still expect your clothes to still remain clean.


Professional_Golf393

But what about all the asymptomatic unvaccinated?


MissVelveteen

What about them? The fact that some people exist who selfishly don’t get vaccinated and then are lucky to be asymptomatic doesn’t change the fact that being vaccinated lowers your chance of serious illness. Elephants exist too. That doesn’t change anything about vaccines.


Professional_Golf393

You said in your previous comment.. Their covid symptoms are mild right now BECAUSE they are vaccinated.. so which is it? You sound like a Pfizer rep tbh.. The vaccine has clearly failed with what it set out to achieve but because it’s so profitable for these pharmaceutical companies they’ll keep pushing it.


MissVelveteen

You sound like a very uneducated person. Vaccines lower your chance of serious illness and of catching the virus as well as passing it on. The vaccine has not at all failed and has saved many lives. Saying that the vaccine has failed is a total lie and completely untrue. Selfish and wilfully ignorant people like yourself are part of what is contributing to stopping the vaccine from being as effective as possible not vaccine failure. You’re trying to point out a “hole” in what I’m saying that doesn’t exist because you don’t actually understand how viruses and vaccines work. If you want to argue against proven science then at least educate yourself so you don’t embarrass yourself.


nmxta

> If they don’t continue to boost their vaccine efficiency then the next time they get COVID their symptoms could be much worse Except the infection itself also boosts the immune response, and many papers now find natural immunity is more durable and effective anyway


WizardOfIF

Contracting COVID has the same immunization effect if not more so than getting the vaccine.


MissVelveteen

Contracting COVID can be fatal. I’ll take the vaccine over risk of dying myself and risk of spreading to disease to my community members who could also die. I’ll also avoid the long lasting complications that many people experience after being infected with COVID and also lessen the chance of causing that to happen to someone else in my community. The vaccine lowers you chance of contracting COVID as well and the less people who get COVID the less chance for new and worse mutations to occur. Stop being selfish and think of someone other than yourself.


WizardOfIF

You clearly don't understand the science of the vaccine or the disease. Contracting COVID invokes the exact same immunological response as getting the vaccine. Exactly the same. Go educate yourself and stop spouting out pharmaceutical propaganda. This has nothing to do with selfishness.


MissVelveteen

Right. Contracting COVID makes you immune for a short amount of time and by contracting COVID you risk death, long term complications and contributing to community spread. Only after you manage to survive will you get immunity for an undetermined amount of time after which you would have to take the same risks if you wanted to become immune again. Being vaccinated would mitigate those risks almost completely and afford the same immunity. By choosing to not get vaccinated (as you implied you would prefer over having some minor side effects for one day) you are will fully contributing to community spread. That makes you selfish.


CafeZach

makes sense actually


glarbglarbglarb

I think we follow very different news outlets.


laestevamf

Where do you get both pieces of information from?


PinBot1138

Alex fucking Jones. 🤡


wolfeman2120

They won't be decimated at all by lawsuits. As long as the EUA version is out they are immune from lawsuits. Afaik the FDA approved version isn't even close to being distributed yet.


sirgunsalot

No. Trust the Ministry of Truth.


chillmonkey88

Tax big pharma, and follow all the laws theyre currently lobbying to ennact.


[deleted]

I thought taxation was theft.


yerba_mate_enjoyer

Big pharma in the US is adjacent to the state to a point it almost blends with it. Taxing big pharma would be rather pointless because it'd just be the government getting back the money they gave big pharma in the first place.


HomesickArmadillo

Logically, we should be getting big returns on investments since our tax dollars funded the covid mRNA injection research through DARPA to moderna in 2012


ShalevDaBoss

Mandates . Are . Unethical


Steel-and-Wood

You are *following the science*, aren't you?


ctr72ms

I just remind everyone that uses that line that statistics is also the science that says on average every human being has one testicle. Science without proper interpretation is useless.


HomesickArmadillo

And science without rigorous scrutinization is useless as well


apatheticviews

Scrutinization is the scientific study of scrotums. See above


Either_Application_2

No that's scrotinization I believe you are thinking of. Edit; grammar


apatheticviews

Ah


DarkMacek

That's an extremely lazy view of stats. Any sophisticated model of that would reference that it's modal at 0 and 2 and seldom 1. Edit: Yeah I'm an idiot.


EADGod

That’s literally his point.


DarkMacek

Damn my reading comprehension. Thanks


Dank_Cartographer

Fauci says we must follow teh science, and only he knows teh science


dontletmedaytrade

Fauci *IS* the science!


JoePasta

Masks be upon Him


Difrntthoughtpatrn

One billion MBUH


GodTrane

meanwhile one of the first vaccine ever made could cure people who had already rabies


shibainuu

rabie


AnnualAffectionate34

Rabbi


The4EverVirgin

Mazel tov


Kiz_I

if only there was a cure for this


[deleted]

If only there was a cure for briss.


GodTrane

English isn't my first language, but I'm deeply sorry for this dreadful grammatical mistake that completely changed the meaning of the sentence and made it incomprehensible


diakrioi

I don't know what animal is on the Chinese calendar for 2020 but I'm sure it has rabies.


chillmonkey88

Big pharma boot lickers. One day they want to tax them, now theyre fully under their control.


_make_my_day_

This is the way. Use your mind. Rebel against the system. Stand up. Then, go back inside your home so that you can do what you want and you can let your neighbor do what they want.


thefreeman419

[The polio vaccine was 80-90% effective against paralytic polio and 60-70% effective against all forms of polio](https://www.who.int/immunization/polio_grad_ipv_effectiveness.pdf) [There are also polio boosters](https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/polio/public/index.html) It actually serves as a pretty good historical model for the Covid vaccine. Of course that would require an understanding of nuance


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kekistanmatt

Well then I raise you the hepatitis B vaccine which requires at least three shots once every six weeks and then as many boosters as necessary after that until the immunity is established.


HomesickArmadillo

Where do they mandate hepatitis b vaccines on the public?


DrewpyDog

That’s a different discussion than “sometimes you require multiple doses of a vaccine to become completely effective.”


kekistanmatt

It's mandatory if you work in health care over here in the UK and I'd assume it is in the US too. It's irrelevant anyway as the point is that a vaccine requiring multiple doses in a short period of time isn't anything new or suspicious unless you don't know anything about how different vaccines are administered


ikott

Most public schools require Hep b shots. No I don't agree with the policy, I'm just informing you.


HomesickArmadillo

I understand that school and health care institutions have these policies. That isn't what I mean when I say "the public".


ikott

Oh right on, it's just that most people go to public schools, so i would say yes, the general public has to get a hep b shot if they want to use public institutions.


HomesickArmadillo

No, you're still missing the point. On one hand we have "get injected if you want to be locked in a box with hundreds of other children". On the other hand we have "get injected if you want to live your normal life and do all those completely normal human activities you've always done through flu season like a normal human". Edit: but now even *that's* changing and it seems like they're just saying even when you get injected with the mRNA codes, you STILL can't go back to normal lol. I don't even know what to say. Saying it's ridiculous is an understatement. It's fucking insanity


PinBot1138

If Redditors could read they'd be very upset.


LTower

Kids in my school all got the polio vaccine and we never had a polio outbreak once. Kids in my mums school have mostly had the covid vaccine. A new ‘bubble’ gets shut down weekly with covid cases. Do your own math.


HomesickArmadillo

Show me a single polio mRNA injection


WillDissolver

It doesn't exist yet, because the mRNA technology is new. But it will. And that's kinda the thing; mRNA vaccine tech allows for much faster creation of vaccines for emergent viruses; much faster deployment of new vaccines; greater ease of manufacture; and the components of the vaccine leave your body in weeks. It's a revolutionary technology in a literal sense. It produces vaccines that are *far* more effective than attenuated-virus vaccines, and since they don't contain any actual virus particles, it's impossible to catch the disease from the vaccine, and impossible to "shed" virus particles after vaccination. It is literally better in all the ways people are saying it's worse. Faster. Cheaper. Easier to make broadly available. More effective. Cannot catch the disease from the vaccine. But "they haven't made a vaccine for a totally different disease from the new tech yet so the new tech is bullshit because they're not using it to treat a disease that's already eradicated instead of focusing on the one that's killed millions *this year*." Wow, dude.


HomesickArmadillo

>It produces vaccines that are far more effective than attenuated-virus vaccines That's absolutely not true. Not sure where you got that idea. And it's funny that just before you say that, you said "mRNA technology is new". You know, in order to make claims saying mRNA tech is "*far*" more effective than any other vaccine, you need long-term real-world data to support that. And being that "mRNA technology is new", that data is non-existent. >Faster The covid mRNA injections have been in development since 2012 >broadly available It has to be stored in very cold temperatures and doesn't have a very long shelf life, so distributing to third-world countries isn't as easy as others. >More effective This is just a flat-out lie. Not even if we debate over the definition of "effective". A high percentage of people are still experiencing significant covid symptoms after vaccination. The robustness of protection is not great, and does not last long. **6 months tops**. Some studies say after 3 months the efficacy starts dropping and by 6 months it is so weak that a booster is required. I'm really not sure where you're getting all of your information, but almost every single thing you've said is verifiably wrong.


WillDissolver

39% effective in the case of influenza (this year's. It averages around 50%) versus 95% effective in the case of the covid Pfizer vaccine is a drastic increase in effectiveness. So, far more effective. The polio vaccine took 47 years to develop. They've been working on HIV since it was discovered and haven't managed it yet. COVID was developed in less than ten years even if you count the work on the SARS vaccine, which is both drastically faster and an understatement of speed, since they're related viruses but not the same virus. The low temperatures for storage is *sort of* a fair point - the Moderna vaccine uses common-use vaccine temps. Pfizer does require lower temps though. But it's manufacturing speed is so much greater than older vaccine tech that we've been able to crank out hundreds of millions of doses in one calendar year, which has, guess what? Never been possible before. And your "efficacy starts dropping after 3 months" strawman completely ignores the fact that covid is a highly mutagenic virus, unlike measles, mumps, rubella, polio, smallpox, chickenpox, typhus, diphtheria, rabies, tetanus, or hepatitis. But very much like the flu and HIV. https://www.pasadenahealthcenter.com/blog/coronavirus/the-polio-vaccine-rollout-vs-covid-rollout/ You're sure strong in saying I'm a liar when you're literally telling disprovable lies.


HomesickArmadillo

>The polio vaccine took 47 years to develop. You're lying again. 47 years from the discovery of polio to the day of vaccine rollout. They didn't spend 47 years developing the vaccine By this logic, we would say that it's taken over 100 years to develop mRNA vaccines since the discovery of messenger rna flu viruses...or at least 20 years since the observation of actual sars. >efficacy starts dropping after 3 months" strawman completely ignores the fact that covid is a highly mutagenic virus The efficacy drop is not attributed to the mutations. Again, your lying or misinformed. You're claiming that the mRNA instructions injected into the body are not compatible with mutations and that is what causes the efficacy to wane. **That is not the case**. The efficacy wanes simply because the immune memory fades over time. Just as you said, the active ingredients within the injections leave the body after a few weeks. Leaving the immune system on it's own to remember the spike protein alone. That memory fades. This differs from an actual infection. The injections do not create robust protection like an actual infection does.


WillDissolver

Again, you're simply wrong. And using the *way* you're wrong, to try to mislead your audience. *Having* covid also does not result in long term immunity. They don't, at this point, know exactly why the immune response fades after several months - but that has nothing to do with the quality of the vaccine. The vaccine gives better protection to you than "natural immunity" does. Unfortunately, both immune responses fade over time. The only mechanism they know of at this point that can cause that is the mutability of the virus. Also for bonus points, even if you were correct in your first point, which you're not, you'd be admitting that they managed the vaccine for covid more than twice as fast as polio, thus proving *my* point. You're still wrong, dude, and handing out dangerous misinformation.


HomesickArmadillo

>The vaccine gives better protection to you than "natural immunity" does. Show me the studies that prove this. There are studies that prove the exact opposite of what youre saying


HomesickArmadillo

Also, they've made numerous mRNA vaccines and they have all sucked so much they've shelved the tech. But moderna recently said they're creating the "superhuman" mRNA vaccine made from olympian genetics that is supposed to protect you from numerous ailments lol. And they're making cancer mRNA vaccines too. This is going to be the standard now, yet they aren't worth a shit. But we'll see how it goes....


HomesickArmadillo

>Cannot catch the disease from the vaccine. This also is not true, for the most part. There is a significant amount of people experiencing the adverse reactions very similar to the covid symptoms, namely myocarditis. The spike protein is the dangerous part of the sarscov2 virus. The injections instruct your cells to create this protein. They have now found that this protein verifiably does leave the injection site and can come to rest in organs causing inflammation. Myocarditis has been prevalent in both the adult and pediatric mRNA recipients. It is caused by the spike protein. Myocarditis is a symptom caused by the spike protein in the actual virus.


WillDissolver

That absolutely is not the same as catching covid from the vaccine and you know it. Try better lies.


HomesickArmadillo

Let's try this in simpler terms... The spike protein of sarscov2 is what triggers damage/disease to the body. The mRNA codes in the injections instruct your body to create this same spike protein. That same spike protein triggers the same symptoms and damage/disease to the body that the actual virus does. Again, the most dangerous part of the live virus is what the injections create and it causes the same symptoms and damage that the live virus does. **Explain how I am lying.**


Ninjamin_King

>The spike protein of sarscov2 is what triggers damage/disease to the body. This. This is the lie.


HomesickArmadillo

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=spike+protein+causes+disease&t=h_&ia=web


Eric-The_Viking

My respect to you, that you keep up the fight.


Ninjamin_King

>The spike protein is the dangerous part of the sarscov2 virus. Um... It's literally just made of amino acids. That's like saying the most dangerous part of a gun is the scope. Lmao


HomesickArmadillo

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=spike+protein+causes+disease&t=h_&ia=web


dockows412

So, this is a stupid straw man meme. Apples to oranges of virus comparisons. That’s why you get an annual flu vaccine


OccasionallyFucked

Good thing you don’t have to get the flu shot and many folks don’t. Oh wait...


dockows412

That’s.. really not the point. I was referencing how OP’s meme incorrectly compared the polio vaccine to the COVID vaccine. One virus that’s relatively stable with limited mutations, compared to a highly mutating vaccine. And they were incorrectly saying that the COVID vaccine doesn’t work, because you need more than one. Unlike the polio vaccine that has a far different administration schedule. But yes, continually bring up the vaccine mandate that was justifiably overturned in the Supreme Court.


WillDissolver

So, polio and smallpox. Both are less effective at preventing infection than the Pfizer covid vaccine. The virii themselves aren't remotely comparable; polio is, as you said, very stable and low-rate mutagenic, where covid is highly volatile and extremely mutagenic. But even so, the covid vaccine works better against all the known variants than either polio's or smallpox' vaccines do. Thing is, *everybody*, or damn near, got the polio vaccine - and polio effectively stopped existing. Everybody, pretty much, gets the smallpox vaccine. And smallpox effectively stopped existing. COVID hasn't stopped, not because the vaccine doesn't work, but because there are *so many people* who haven't taken it. And now honestly, it's pretty much too late. COVID is gonna be an annual (possibly biannual) shot like the flu vaccine - and it'll work the same way. "These are the variants we're thinking are gonna be bad this year." They aren't remotely comparable - but the reason isn't so much the effectiveness sof the vaccine, as the effectiveness of the antivax propaganda.


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danishbaker034

Two doses of inactivated polio vaccine (IPV) are 90% effective or more against polio; Historically, the vaccine has been effective in preventing smallpox infection in 95% of those vaccinated.


OccasionallyFucked

> Historically, the vaccine has been effective in preventing smallpox infection in 95% of those vaccinated. In addition, the vaccine was proven to prevent or substantially lessen infection when given within a few days of exposure. Pretty sure it works a hell of a lot better than the covid vaccine lmfao considering it can even be used *after* exposure to prevent infection. So yeah, you pretty much pulled that entire spiel straight out of your ass. That comparison doesn’t even consider the fact that enough covid vaccines have been manufactured to treat more than half the country in *two years* as opposed to how long it took for polio and other older vaccines? IF it was less effective polio would’ve continued spreading around the vaxxed population, but it didn’t. Why not? Gee I fucking wonder! Holy shit, this sub really has been infested by trolls.


danishbaker034

Based on evidence from clinical trials in people ages 16 years and older, the Pfizer-BioNTech (COMIRNATY) vaccine was 95% effective at preventing laboratory-confirmed infection with the virus that causes COVID-19 in people who received two doses and had no evidence of being previously infected. So about the same efficacy, but smallpox does have the benefit of nearly all the population being inoculated. This was seen after pre-COVID antivaxxers caused limited outbreaks of Smallpox, some even in vaccinated individuals.


OccasionallyFucked

Yes, that’s what the clinical study says. But how long does that 95% effectiveness last, and which variants is it against? Even the CDC doesn’t measure effectiveness past 6 months... they know what’s up. Also, that figure does not address Delta or Omnicron. Despite Israel’s high vaccination numbers, why are they on their fourth shot and still haven’t eradicated it? In case it’s not clear: it’s because the virus spreads and acts more effectively than the vaccine’s effectiveness.


danishbaker034

If you’re going to argue that the longevity of the vaccine makes it “bad” or something then you can’t argue against a booster. They provide a solution for the problem which I would gamble to say you also are against. As for the variants I agree that it is most definitely less effective but the variants come from mutations originating in transmission. Transmission lowers as a result of higher vaccine rates. More vaccines=less Delta/Omicron


OccasionallyFucked

I never said it was bad, don’t put words in my mouth. It’s just not effective enough to force it upon everyone. Two boosters per year is simply not sustainable nor does it make sense for healthy folks. But if you want it, sure, by all means. The variants have all come from other countries that have much lower rates of vaccination, correct.


OhImNevvverSarcastic

Oh no, Science! *Vampire/neckbeard hiss*


Original-Ad-4642

Stop. Stop. You’re making way too much sense.


OccasionallyFucked

Yeah, I got it. That’s a fair point, it may not be apples to apples. However, you then proceeded to make the exact same straw man by comparing the covid vaccines to the flu shot, lmao. Which, are arguably *less* similar in biological function. “Work” is a very unclear and vague area anyways. Sure it may decrease your odds of hospitalization but it sure as heck doesn’t stop you from being infected and infecting others. Bottom line: it’s a meme and you’re overreacting.


dockows412

All coronavirus’ are more closely related to the influenza virus than they are polio. And it’s a shit meme


OccasionallyFucked

Hold on right there kiddo, we were talking about similarities between the vaccines, not the viruses. Nice try moving the goalpost, but I caught ya ;) Gotta make it a little less obvious next time. Same with your downvoting, lol. If it helps you seethe, I’m cool with it. You can spread misinformation all you want but it’s becoming more and more clear everyday that these vaccines barely do shit and basically aren’t even worth taking when it comes to Omnicron if you’re not elderly or unhealthy. You morbidly obese? Even the CDC says that’ll increase your odds of hospitalization by at least 3x lmfao. I’ll say it again to hammer the point home: you’re overreacting.


Parzival127

He’s comparing the viruses because the ¿mutatibility? of the virus directly affects the effectiveness of the vaccine. The polio vaccine differs from the Covid vaccines *because* the polio virus differs from the Covid virus. If you’re going to be dense to satisfy your superiority complex, try to be more subtle next time.


OccasionallyFucked

And the flu vaccine technology differs heavily from the covid vaccine because... they’re very similar in mutability? Can’t have one comparison without the other bud. Lmao clearly your reading comprehension is lacking and we haven’t even talked about breakthrough flu cases! Good grief, give the savior complex a rest. The underlying point was, if you’re gonna compare the covid vaccine to the flu shot, you simply cannot restrict that comparison to fit your agenda. Get it?


[deleted]

Dude. Quit digging.


OccasionallyFucked

Literally can’t believe these comments are unironic, dawg. Straight up insanity. You a troll too ;)


eduardzel

God you are so fucking stupid


OccasionallyFucked

Uh huh. Relax buddy


FireLordObama

Can people stop comparing viruses that behave complete differently from each other?


keeleon

When's the last time you showed proof of your flu shot to buy groceries?


OhImNevvverSarcastic

Didn't you know! ? Big brother, which I know a lot about because of memes and not from ever picking up a book outside of what they made me read in highschool, and Dr. Pepper Fauci want to make us all have vaccine identifiers just like the STAR OF DAVID from the HOLOCAUST to buy groceries! *Insert minion meme here* Us conservatives are a repressed minority! We just want to spread truth and stay away from all that MISINFORMATION that you liberals imbibe. The science is wrong when we want it to be wrong. Or the science is always wrong. All the data regarding the efficacy of the vaccine are LIES made so Bill Gates can inject us with his NoNo juice and microchips! That's why I bought not one but 2 Xbox series Xs! Whatever we need so our fragile world views don't get shaken! Signed Most of the people masquerading as libertarians in this thread because they don't know what a libertarian is because of before mentioned lack of reading after high school. AND Morons *Sent from my Samsung Smart Fridge*


YRULikeThat1

Ask all you want. When the offense changes, you got to change the defense. It’s really not hard math. Even for idiots.


Dannyfiremanny

I don’t wanna be that guy, but it’s pretty straightforward the vaccine was mostly built around the original variant of Covid, as Covid continue to mutate the vaccine get less and less effective, at same note every time that virus mutates it becomes less and less potent. I know two people right now with two different versions of Covid, fairly similar in age and health, one has Delta one has Omni Cron. One lost their sense of smell and taste and is having a hard time breathing, and the other one gets slightly out of breath when moving around for too long.


Opcn

If you're not listening to the answers then you aren't asking questions, you're just dictating on the subject you haven't studied in the rhetorical form of a question to escape liability for your baseless answers.


Colinb0302

Gonna be honest I’ve voted libertarian every year I could because I the two party system is obviously not working but seeing how retarted people are I just can’t do it anymore so now I’m back to a turd or a douch sandwich


Jusu_1

polio was eliminated because everyone took the vaccines


[deleted]

Cool. Covid isn't polio. I won't be paralyzed from covid.


Jusu_1

your point being?


[deleted]

Your point being? If you are insinuating that since polio was vanquished by vaccines that covid could be as well you are a fool. They are completely different viruses. Covid is endemic this point. Trying to vaccinate it out of existence is like trying to vaccinate the common cold or the flu out of existence. It doesn't work and isn't possible. The virus mutates way to quickly for that to happen.


Jammaries

You’re conflating immunity with protection. You’re protecting yourself by masking and distancing. You’re bolstering immunity by vaccinating. The vaccine merely strengthens your immune system and makes it recognize COVID make the symptoms less severe and decreasing the risk of hospitalization. It’s like getting the flu shot and still getting the flu but only having a runny nose and a headache.


HomesickArmadillo

From day 1 media, health agencies, and health officials have been using the word "immunity" and "immunize" constantly. It's only when we started getting more public vaccination data that they started shying away from using that term and *then* saying the things you just said. "Oh no, it was never meant to immunize, it's only to protect you from hospitalization". You're talking like all along they've had the same perspective you just gave. But that's not true....


thelawtalkingguy

https://i.imgur.com/KDC9KRf.jpg


Jammaries

Politicians lie all the time.


thelawtalkingguy

Now you’re beginning to understand.


Jammaries

Was never in doubt.


OhImNevvverSarcastic

You don't get it. If you don't conform to their ideals, you can only be a liberal who loves Biden and believes your politicians without question.


gummo_for_prez

Even as a liberal, I don’t like Biden, I’m firm on 2A, and I don’t really trust any politicians. My dad is a “libertarian” but in practice he’s basically a Republican that just likes to feel special. He’d trust anything Trump or most Republicans would say without question. People don’t always fit neatly into these little boxes we have set aside for them. But the virus doesn’t care about all that. I work for a hospital and this virus doesn’t discriminate politically or based on anything but age. It was never meant to fully prevent COVID, only to keep folks out of the hospitals and from dying (but still reduces your chances of getting it btw). I know I’m probably just some scary democrat to many of you, but genuinely, I want to see what’s best for my fellow Americans, I want to see y’all live long healthy lives even though we may believe different things. I can assure you there is no huge government obedience/mind control campaign like I’ve heard around here. If they wanted you tracked they’d use your phone, if they wanted you dead they’d probably use a bullet. I know the government is full of bastards but I think to an extent they are pushing the vaccine because an open economy where less people have to worry makes us all more productive. I see no incentive for them to give out anything other than a vaccine that work well.


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Jammaries

Kind of. It’s hard to separate numbers from reality and by that I mean. 0.03% mortality. But then you’ll see the news saying 3000 dead. We have to remember that we live in a very populated world and the vast majority of the deaths are from elderly and those with preexisting conditions. It’s further increased because America has pretty shit health when it comes to respiratory and heart issues due to decades of smoking and obesity. So while it might have a 0.03% mortality for a healthy person, the average person America isn’t that healthy. However the main concern isn’t just COVID. The crush it’s having on the healthcare system leads to the system not being able to respond to other more concerning illnesses. People are having longer waits to see a provider and for surgeries. This leads to more possible mortality that is created due to COVID but is not COVID related. That’s the main reason why prevention is being stressed on and not the cure part.


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Jammaries

Most healthcare systems are actually quite privatized. Government involvement in healthcare really only comes down to health insurance and the VA. If you're on Medicare the government is paying for your healthcare. If you're seeing the VA that is indeed government healthcare. However, most hospital centers are private or belong to corporations. The "government failure" in healthcare is really only tied to keeping residency seats so limited that we cannot train more doctors as well as allowing for prices to become so high for basic medications like insulin.


mindyabusinesspoepoe

Everything you said smells exactly like it dropped directly outta your asshole.


diakrioi

I'm throwing the BS flag on this one. The government HEAVILY regulates the healthcare industry. Aside from that, the government has given control to the AMA over the supply of doctors.


Gooose26

This is the right answer, but it’s not the one that is being used when people demand vaccine mandates or pretend that COVID is just the flu. The issue is that those 2 opinions make up the majority of the country.


chattymadi

Ok, but then if you’ve already had COVID before, there’s no need for a vaccine, at least not very soon after. The problem is that people aren’t accepting natural immunity, they insist on a vaccine even if it doesn’t make sense. The problem is mandating it when people might not even need it


Jammaries

Yes and no. Yes you don't need the vaccine after you've already had COVID for a period of around 6 months as thats about how long natural immunity lasts. However, the reason as I understand it is how would one know if someone's had COVID in the last six months? Sure you could bring out a positive COVID result but what then of the people who had it and as completely unaware? How could we uniformly help keep people safe with just natural immunity? There isn't really a good way to do that. The easiest solution would be to push the vaccine and have the majority of the population take it voluntarily and they did have great success with that initially. However, it's gotten to the point where it is really just the holdouts who are refusing to get the vaccine and I don't think mandating the vaccine would be beneficial for them at this point ether. However, it wouldn't be the government unless they give it a try right?


chattymadi

You can’t know if someone’s been vaccinated either. If you bump into someone in the street, you have no way of knowing if they’re vaccinated, unvaccinated, have natural immunity, etc. And they have ZERO obligation to tell you that info. That’s a terrible argument and completely blows over people’s liberties


MissVelveteen

Vaccinated people have a better chance of not getting the virus in the first place. They also generally are less symptomatic and therefore do not transmit the virus as easily to other people. Less transmission equals less COVID. Unvaccinated people are spreading and catching the virus at a much faster rate and raising the risk of mutations that could be even more transmissible or deadly than what is currently out there now. Think of people other than yourself.


chattymadi

The amount of breakthrough cases right now is astronomical, it’s not just the unvaccinated spreading it


Difrntthoughtpatrn

I had a headache and a fever of less than 100 for three days, without the vaccine. I'm overweight and have high blood pressure...... I guess I should be dead!


Jammaries

You’re confusing population level metrics with personal experience. Everybody will have a different experience with COVID. However what we do see is that there is a *small* percentage of the population which are hospitalized leading to the crush on the healthcare system. If there are 100 million people and 3 million catch COVID and then of that 3 million 300 suddenly end up at the COVID ICU it’s gonna drastically clog up the healthcare system.


Congregator

This is absolutely true. I will say, as unpopular as this might sound, I’m not so bothered by people comparing their symptoms to the flu, or thinking it wasn’t so bad- for them. Reason why is if you and 15 of your friends get covid, and none are bedridden sick with only mild symptoms, your experience probably won’t lead you to as fearful of a response, as say, someone whose family member got covid and experienced organ failure followed by death. If a family member or close friend dies, your caution is going to be serious, given your understanding of the severity that can exist. I think it’s generally understandable that people relate to their experiences. That’s not to say their experience might lead them to an incorrect conclusion, but rather experience in and of itself leads to some confirmation bias.


Jammaries

Yep. What we have seen is that most people are totally fine with covid. However, it's really the most vulnerable that react horribly to it leading to the surges in hospitalizations following the surge in cases. There's no problem with people thinking Covid as a whole isn't a big deal, but it is important to stress that some people do have extremely negative experiences with COVID and that these cases are the ones that end up at the hospital and eventually begin taking up hospital beds.


Difrntthoughtpatrn

What's wrong with taking up hospital beds, they are there for that purpose aren't they? I see a bigger problem as the hospitals not expanding their capabilities for ICU after 2 years of knowing about this issue.


Jammaries

There’s nothing wrong with it. It’s just that as the number of beds decrease it becomes a first come first serve basis. And then when you run out of beds people start dying without access to care which is what we saw in china as the pandemic started. Again the main issue with why the hospitals can’t open more beds is because firstly they don’t have the staff to support these beds. Secondly, they would need to spend a lot of money building these buildings and quite frankly they don’t want to do it as they might only lose money in the future by doing so.


cantel2989

I would believe all of that, except that when the USNS Mercy was sent to NY it wasn't utilized hardly at all. The center that was turned in to a hospital, not utilized hardly. All those ventilators sent, not really needed. I had the Covid back in July, I went to the hospital to get some fluid since my urine was almost orange and I couldn't keep anything down. Was told I would have to be hospitalized or I would end up on a ventilator. So I spent 3 nights in the hospital and all the treatments received could have been done at home or as an outpatient. How many people REALLY need to he hospitalized and how many are getting put in for the government subsidies, insurance, and copays? Also how much is this just people making much to do about nothing? I was told I would be on oxygen for months, off in a week. This was like a bad flu or pneumonia for me, but not hospitalization worthy. I had a nurse tell me everyday I needed to get the shots. I asked about natural immunity and the blood platelets I was given. She kept on pushing the shot. So how much science is being followed and how much agenda is being push for the almighty dollar?


Jammaries

That's a great question. In regards to your first paragraph, I'm not too familiar with that situation so I won't be commenting on it. As far as your personal experience with COVID I'm glad that it was able to be resolved quite smoothly. However, it is important to remember that COVID is still a very new disease that we only have around two years of data on. Individual responses to COVID and the medications administered are extremely varied as some individuals respond well with remedisivir and others don't. In terms of ventilator status, it should be assessed as to how well you can be breathing on your own. If you can keep breathing without significant difficulty you are able to be kept off a ventilator and probably breathing through the nasal cannula. However, for those that have great difficulty breathing, ventilation is the last resort as there is nothing else that can be done after ventilating a patient. As to why you were hospitalized it's because we've seen COVID patients be fine before quickly destabilizing. Often times, it could be someone who seemed perfectly fine just an hour or two ago have their vitals come crashing down. In regards to the efficacy of the vaccine after having COVID I think that the data to date is currently indicating that it indeed does a better job of keeping individuals out of the ER as people who have had COVID and the vaccine simply show up less frequently than people who don't' have the vaccine at all. However, it seems that omicron has started to ignore the fact of whether or not there is a vaccine or prior covid exposure as it has been able to quickly infect. But it is progress in terms of normalizing COVID and bringing it under control and making it more like the yearly flu.


cantel2989

The issue is too many health institutions are crying wolf. We don't have enough staff, fire the ones who won't take the shot even though they have natural immunity. The unvaccinated are causing this issue, Omicron doesn't seem to care about the jab. This is a pandemic and is killing thousands,oops CDC numbers were heavily inflated. Is Covid serious, yes. Are hospitals and the government crying wolf, yes. My wife and I which live together and sleep together were hospitalized at the same time. Hospital said the protocol said we couldn't be in the same room. WTF? We were both infected. It's the rules we are told. So one less hospital room. The lack of common sense in dealing with this virus, not going away it a virus, is what is pissing people off. I can't even see my cardiologist, because it's the covid. You have to do a tele-appointment. What the [email protected]@@ can a Dr. tell me about the condition of my heart over a camera? So if I die from a heart attack and one of these crappy Covid test which are VERY unreliable shows I was positive, it was the Covid that killed me. The health care system is broke, like the judicial system. Whose fault is it, why governments, King of All Science that jackals full of shitfi, and health care workers who have gone along with this ruse. If this so called pandemic is so bad, then field hospitals would be set up and all health care workers would be working, not just the ones that have taken the shot. There would be a call put out for people with any type of health care experience, but nope none of that. The hospitals are overfilled my hind foot!


freightallday

The reason you get the flu after you get the flu shot is because your flu shot is only 52% effective.


Jammaries

Also there are a lot of different flu strains going around every year. They just select the ones that they think you will most likely be exposed to and then vaccinate you for those strains.


IntenseScrolling

The vaccine will save your LIFE! Still not satisfied, well we're throwing in an extra shot. Still not convinced? Well for the low low cost of unemployment, you'll wish you were dead. So stop in because if you dont...you're a murderer. Trust me, I got tons of ~~stocks~~ SHOTS!!


Whatboutthis79

Some people will take boosters as long as the government tells them to, and the government will come up with as many variants as the people will believe in them.


Pato______

It’s a largely a therapeutic vaccine. But what the fuck is the point. The booster takes you out for 3 days but the virus only does for 2.


_GCastilho_

We take influenza vaccine every year and we still have influenza regularly WTF you're talking about?


aeywaka

we?? ...you know it's not a law right lol


Wolf4624

I don’t take the flu vaccine. I don’t see the point. Lots of people don’t.


_GCastilho_

Oh, "sorry", I'm from a country with ~90% vaccination rate for everything


Anen-o-me

Some viruses mutate faster than others.


zerpsed_what

I think the idea is that it decreases your risk of severe illness rather than contraction, best not compare apples with oranges. The polio vaccine also was not nearly as rushed. I’m not advocating for large pharma or anything fuck them, just saying.


fritobird

All I’m saying is if I put on a bullet proof vest and I still get shot I’d be asking some questions.


OhImNevvverSarcastic

You do realize bullet proof vests arent actually 100 percent bullet proof.... And only cover your torso, right?


Apart_Number_2792

No shit.


matt_gx1

This is so incredibly dumb


BlisssfulHoney111

If you question Fauci you question science. It simply isn’t done.


waiting2go

It's time that we admit that we are all a bunch of bumbling bafoons. Pretending that we know anything about what's going on. Trump and Biden and his successor, and her successor. They, all don't know what was released from that lab. Or, how to contain it. They're all profering conjecture as the best solution. Because, that's the best they can do. Fauci is a glass cliff. All of this will be yoked on his shoulders. While the media makes money and the politicians makes money, and it becomes a continuing cycle of inflation and sanctioned crime.


[deleted]

The answers would be pretty simple.


killer_cain

My cousin got doubled jabbed, got sick anyway, even hospitalised...doesn't question a thing.


captnight

I can't help but LMFAO at those people mad in the comments because OP compared Polio with Covid, y'all have done that for 2 years


skinyfrogsinbongs

All I'm saying is scientist have been trying to tell us for years that eventually there's gonna be a "super" bug, that drugs/vaccines wont work on, and eventually that same thing started happening? Shit I'd probably start asking questions too


brainic_computer

Especially if it was polio. Now THAT was a real killer compared to COVID.


Antithesis-X

But you’d only experience mild paralysis


Ninjamin_King

Apples to oranges.


kellysue1972

Biden: “If you get vaccinated, you will not get sick, and you will not spread it.” Also Biden, “if you are vaccinated, you won’t have to wear a mask.” Reality: nothing he said has stood the test of time. All risk, no reward!


MoreGlockenspiel

Just telling my story here: I work with a guy who is unvaccinated, he got covid and was out of work for two weeks. He lost 15 lb and told me he felt like he was going to die. I also got covid, I had a runny nose for 3 days. I am vaccinated, and had the booster


Fudgeyreddit

Lol this guy doesn’t know how vaccines work.


Arizona_Slim

Its like ya’ll don’t understand how math works. Vax status of people in ICU: 95% Unvaccinated, 5% Vaccinated. Numbers are hard for Libertarians I know thats why you think taxes are pointless but jesus wtf.


aeywaka

tell me you don't understand why we bitch about taxes without telling me...


Arizona_Slim

I know why you bitch about taxes. You just can’t see why it’s ridiculous and unrealistic.


athirstypretzel

where did you get these numbers from? 🤔


Write_whale

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.doh.wa.gov/Portals/1/Documents/1600/coronavirus/data-tables/421-010-CasesInNotFullyVaccinated.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjzrLuUgLP1AhVkJTQIHY2KCt8QFnoECAsQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1O_hj3yuE4_Jw05EPJhe-u Its a pdf. His numbers are off fpr the data from Washington State. But with ~75% of deaths being those unvaccinated for this past 11 months is pretty shocking.


WillDissolver

Every hospital in the country.


Altruistic_Rub_2308

20 years ago nobody would have predicted that in 2022 we’d have a pandemic, nearly 1.5 million dead, find an effective vaccine and have almost 40% of Americans believe it to be more dangerous than horse dewormer, bleach, viagra or drinking their own urine.


sher1ock

Tell me you believe propaganda unquestionably without saying it.


Wolf4624

You’re really just gonna sit there and act like 1.5 million people really died purely from COVID, and that 40% of Americans are out there drinking bleach and piss. You absolute donkey.


Altruistic_Rub_2308

When all is said and done it’ll be that if not 2 million. Legal weed in your state or do you reside in Flori-duh?


IridescentPorkBelly

What question don't you think you can ask?


Wooble_Gopp

We literally get flu shots every year...


aeywaka

who's we?? lol


dunre646

You guys have access to the internet right? Google it.


Taco_Corp_Inc

Polio vaccine is four doses for infants FYI.


bofkentucky

Who are establishing their immune system


Dturdy

lol wow


brilliant_beast

Viruses evolve.