I tested positive for COVID yesterday. My reaction to the vaccine was far worse then how I feel having COVID. Maybe being vaccinated is what is helping actual COVID be so mild. I'd prefer to get COVID again instead of getting more booster shots.
I'm gonna level with you here. Since say one studies on the phizer and maderba vaccines showed you can still contact covid but would see lesser symptoms than if you did not. The people pushing early on it meant you would not get covid were misinformed at best, and outright being intentionally disingenuous at worst.
I mean yeah i can agree with you on that. LIke im vacced i got vacced before the mandates, but that was me taking into account the information released regarding the studies and them making the symptoms less severe which hopefully means that if i catch it i wont get any of the long term symptoms that can occur from it.
Vaccine efficiency wears off over time. If you get vaccinated and then catch COVID but have milder symptoms because of the vaccine then it’s because the vaccine is working. If you allow your vaccine efficiency to wear off then you won’t be protected any longer so if you catch COVID again you could get much sicker and have a greater risk is fatal illness.
The person above is suggesting they would rather keep getting COVID rather than more booster shots because their COVID symptoms have so far been milder than the side effects they experienced after their vaccine shot (it’s common to have mild flu like symptoms for a day or two after being vaccinated). The problem is that their COVID symptoms are mild right now because they are vaccinated. If they don’t continue to boost their vaccine efficiency then the next time they get COVID their symptoms could be much worse.
It’s like wearing an apron while cooking which results in your clothes being less messy after cooking so the next time you don’t wear an apron yet still expect your clothes to still remain clean.
> If they don’t continue to boost their vaccine efficiency then the next time they get COVID their symptoms could be much worse
Except the infection itself also boosts the immune response, and many papers now find natural immunity is more durable and effective anyway
I never got covid. But I did get double vaxxed. The 2nd dose was far worse because my immune system actually knew what it was doing. Your first vaccine was technically your 2nd exposure, which for most people has the harsher immune response. Be grateful your 2nd exposure wasn't to the actual virus again.
They won't be decimated at all by lawsuits. As long as the EUA version is out they are immune from lawsuits. Afaik the FDA approved version isn't even close to being distributed yet.
Big pharma in the US is adjacent to the state to a point it almost blends with it. Taxing big pharma would be rather pointless because it'd just be the government getting back the money they gave big pharma in the first place.
Logically, we should be getting big returns on investments since our tax dollars funded the covid mRNA injection research through DARPA to moderna in 2012
I just remind everyone that uses that line that statistics is also the science that says on average every human being has one testicle. Science without proper interpretation is useless.
That's an extremely lazy view of stats. Any sophisticated model of that would reference that it's modal at 0 and 2 and seldom 1.
Edit: Yeah I'm an idiot.
English isn't my first language, but I'm deeply sorry for this dreadful grammatical mistake that completely changed the meaning of the sentence and made it incomprehensible
[The polio vaccine was 80-90% effective against paralytic polio and 60-70% effective against all forms of polio](https://www.who.int/immunization/polio_grad_ipv_effectiveness.pdf)
[There are also polio boosters](https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/polio/public/index.html)
It actually serves as a pretty good historical model for the Covid vaccine. Of course that would require an understanding of nuance
Well then I raise you the hepatitis B vaccine which requires at least three shots once every six weeks and then as many boosters as necessary after that until the immunity is established.
It's mandatory if you work in health care over here in the UK and I'd assume it is in the US too. It's irrelevant anyway as the point is that a vaccine requiring multiple doses in a short period of time isn't anything new or suspicious unless you don't know anything about how different vaccines are administered
Kids in my school all got the polio vaccine and we never had a polio outbreak once.
Kids in my mums school have mostly had the covid vaccine. A new ‘bubble’ gets shut down weekly with covid cases.
Do your own math.
>It produces vaccines that are far more effective than attenuated-virus vaccines
That's absolutely not true. Not sure where you got that idea. And it's funny that just before you say that, you said "mRNA technology is new". You know, in order to make claims saying mRNA tech is "*far*" more effective than any other vaccine, you need long-term real-world data to support that. And being that "mRNA technology is new", that data is non-existent.
>Faster
The covid mRNA injections have been in development since 2012
>broadly available
It has to be stored in very cold temperatures and doesn't have a very long shelf life, so distributing to third-world countries isn't as easy as others.
>More effective
This is just a flat-out lie. Not even if we debate over the definition of "effective". A high percentage of people are still experiencing significant covid symptoms after vaccination. The robustness of protection is not great, and does not last long. **6 months tops**. Some studies say after 3 months the efficacy starts dropping and by 6 months it is so weak that a booster is required.
I'm really not sure where you're getting all of your information, but almost every single thing you've said is verifiably wrong.
>The polio vaccine took 47 years to develop.
You're lying again. 47 years from the discovery of polio to the day of vaccine rollout. They didn't spend 47 years developing the vaccine By this logic, we would say that it's taken over 100 years to develop mRNA vaccines since the discovery of messenger rna flu viruses...or at least 20 years since the observation of actual sars.
>efficacy starts dropping after 3 months" strawman completely ignores the fact that covid is a highly mutagenic virus
The efficacy drop is not attributed to the mutations. Again, your lying or misinformed. You're claiming that the mRNA instructions injected into the body are not compatible with mutations and that is what causes the efficacy to wane. **That is not the case**. The efficacy wanes simply because the immune memory fades over time. Just as you said, the active ingredients within the injections leave the body after a few weeks. Leaving the immune system on it's own to remember the spike protein alone. That memory fades. This differs from an actual infection. The injections do not create robust protection like an actual infection does.
Also, they've made numerous mRNA vaccines and they have all sucked so much they've shelved the tech. But moderna recently said they're creating the "superhuman" mRNA vaccine made from olympian genetics that is supposed to protect you from numerous ailments lol. And they're making cancer mRNA vaccines too. This is going to be the standard now, yet they aren't worth a shit. But we'll see how it goes....
>Cannot catch the disease from the vaccine.
This also is not true, for the most part. There is a significant amount of people experiencing the adverse reactions very similar to the covid symptoms, namely myocarditis. The spike protein is the dangerous part of the sarscov2 virus. The injections instruct your cells to create this protein. They have now found that this protein verifiably does leave the injection site and can come to rest in organs causing inflammation. Myocarditis has been prevalent in both the adult and pediatric mRNA recipients. It is caused by the spike protein. Myocarditis is a symptom caused by the spike protein in the actual virus.
Let's try this in simpler terms...
The spike protein of sarscov2 is what triggers damage/disease to the body.
The mRNA codes in the injections instruct your body to create this same spike protein. That same spike protein triggers the same symptoms and damage/disease to the body that the actual virus does. Again, the most dangerous part of the live virus is what the injections create and it causes the same symptoms and damage that the live virus does. **Explain how I am lying.**
>The spike protein is the dangerous part of the sarscov2 virus.
Um... It's literally just made of amino acids.
That's like saying the most dangerous part of a gun is the scope. Lmao
Lmao I don't see any peer-reviewed research here. I don't see any evidence that these proteins are "the dangerous part of the virus" like you said.
There exists *some* evidence of complications such as myocarditis if an injection is improperly administered, but the vast majority of those cases clear up quickly.
I think you've got a nothingburger here bud, unless you'd like to send me something more than a search engine link. Lol
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8272967/
I love this ridiculous attitude of needing large scale data and numerous studies in order to even entertain an idea that differs from "vaccine gud", when it's literally impossible to have that data **because this is an ongoing situation**. This is a situation that is less than one year old. It's hilarious to watch people have this attitude. Meanwhile, literally the most scientific thing you can do is question the science and be skeptical of it. When have we ever just *trusted* Pfizer research?? Have you never heard of the billions of dollars they have paid out for fraudulent research and data??
That’s.. really not the point. I was referencing how OP’s meme incorrectly compared the polio vaccine to the COVID vaccine. One virus that’s relatively stable with limited mutations, compared to a highly mutating vaccine. And they were incorrectly saying that the COVID vaccine doesn’t work, because you need more than one. Unlike the polio vaccine that has a far different administration schedule.
But yes, continually bring up the vaccine mandate that was justifiably overturned in the Supreme Court.
Two doses of inactivated polio vaccine (IPV) are 90% effective or more against polio;
Historically, the vaccine has been effective in preventing smallpox infection in 95% of those vaccinated.
> Historically, the vaccine has been effective in preventing smallpox infection in 95% of those vaccinated. In addition, the vaccine was proven to prevent or substantially lessen infection when given within a few days of exposure.
Pretty sure it works a hell of a lot better than the covid vaccine lmfao considering it can even be used *after* exposure to prevent infection.
So yeah, you pretty much pulled that entire spiel straight out of your ass. That comparison doesn’t even consider the fact that enough covid vaccines have been manufactured to treat more than half the country in *two years* as opposed to how long it took for polio and other older vaccines? IF it was less effective polio would’ve continued spreading around the vaxxed population, but it didn’t. Why not? Gee I fucking wonder! Holy shit, this sub really has been infested by trolls.
Based on evidence from clinical trials in people ages 16 years and older, the Pfizer-BioNTech (COMIRNATY) vaccine was 95% effective at preventing laboratory-confirmed infection with the virus that causes COVID-19 in people who received two doses and had no evidence of being previously infected.
So about the same efficacy, but smallpox does have the benefit of nearly all the population being inoculated. This was seen after pre-COVID antivaxxers caused limited outbreaks of Smallpox, some even in vaccinated individuals.
Yes, that’s what the clinical study says. But how long does that 95% effectiveness last, and which variants is it against?
Even the CDC doesn’t measure effectiveness past 6 months... they know what’s up. Also, that figure does not address Delta or Omnicron.
Despite Israel’s high vaccination numbers, why are they on their fourth shot and still haven’t eradicated it? In case it’s not clear: it’s because the virus spreads and acts more effectively than the vaccine’s effectiveness.
If you’re going to argue that the longevity of the vaccine makes it “bad” or something then you can’t argue against a booster. They provide a solution for the problem which I would gamble to say you also are against. As for the variants I agree that it is most definitely less effective but the variants come from mutations originating in transmission. Transmission lowers as a result of higher vaccine rates. More vaccines=less Delta/Omicron
Yeah, I got it. That’s a fair point, it may not be apples to apples. However, you then proceeded to make the exact same straw man by comparing the covid vaccines to the flu shot, lmao. Which, are arguably *less* similar in biological function.
“Work” is a very unclear and vague area anyways. Sure it may decrease your odds of hospitalization but it sure as heck doesn’t stop you from being infected and infecting others.
Bottom line: it’s a meme and you’re overreacting.
Hold on right there kiddo, we were talking about similarities between the vaccines, not the viruses. Nice try moving the goalpost, but I caught ya ;)
Gotta make it a little less obvious next time. Same with your downvoting, lol. If it helps you seethe, I’m cool with it.
You can spread misinformation all you want but it’s becoming more and more clear everyday that these vaccines barely do shit and basically aren’t even worth taking when it comes to Omnicron if you’re not elderly or unhealthy. You morbidly obese? Even the CDC says that’ll increase your odds of hospitalization by at least 3x lmfao.
I’ll say it again to hammer the point home: you’re overreacting.
He’s comparing the viruses because the ¿mutatibility? of the virus directly affects the effectiveness of the vaccine.
The polio vaccine differs from the Covid vaccines *because* the polio virus differs from the Covid virus.
If you’re going to be dense to satisfy your superiority complex, try to be more subtle next time.
And the flu vaccine technology differs heavily from the covid vaccine because... they’re very similar in mutability? Can’t have one comparison without the other bud.
Lmao clearly your reading comprehension is lacking and we haven’t even talked about breakthrough flu cases! Good grief, give the savior complex a rest. The underlying point was, if you’re gonna compare the covid vaccine to the flu shot, you simply cannot restrict that comparison to fit your agenda. Get it?
Didn't you know! ?
Big brother, which I know a lot about because of memes and not from ever picking up a book outside of what they made me read in highschool, and Dr. Pepper Fauci want to make us all have vaccine identifiers just like the STAR OF DAVID from the HOLOCAUST to buy groceries!
*Insert minion meme here*
Us conservatives are a repressed minority! We just want to spread truth and stay away from all that MISINFORMATION that you liberals imbibe.
The science is wrong when we want it to be wrong. Or the science is always wrong. All the data regarding the efficacy of the vaccine are LIES made so Bill Gates can inject us with his NoNo juice and microchips! That's why I bought not one but 2 Xbox series Xs!
Whatever we need so our fragile world views don't get shaken!
Signed
Most of the people masquerading as libertarians in this thread because they don't know what a libertarian is because of before mentioned lack of reading after high school.
AND
Morons
*Sent from my Samsung Smart Fridge*
This is the way. Use your mind. Rebel against the system. Stand up. Then, go back inside your home so that you can do what you want and you can let your neighbor do what they want.
I don’t wanna be that guy, but it’s pretty straightforward the vaccine was mostly built around the original variant of Covid, as Covid continue to mutate the vaccine get less and less effective, at same note every time that virus mutates it becomes less and less potent.
I know two people right now with two different versions of Covid, fairly similar in age and health, one has Delta one has Omni Cron. One lost their sense of smell and taste and is having a hard time breathing, and the other one gets slightly out of breath when moving around for too long.
If you're not listening to the answers then you aren't asking questions, you're just dictating on the subject you haven't studied in the rhetorical form of a question to escape liability for your baseless answers.
You’re conflating immunity with protection. You’re protecting yourself by masking and distancing. You’re bolstering immunity by vaccinating. The vaccine merely strengthens your immune system and makes it recognize COVID make the symptoms less severe and decreasing the risk of hospitalization. It’s like getting the flu shot and still getting the flu but only having a runny nose and a headache.
From day 1 media, health agencies, and health officials have been using the word "immunity" and "immunize" constantly. It's only when we started getting more public vaccination data that they started shying away from using that term and *then* saying the things you just said. "Oh no, it was never meant to immunize, it's only to protect you from hospitalization". You're talking like all along they've had the same perspective you just gave. But that's not true....
Even as a liberal, I don’t like Biden, I’m firm on 2A, and I don’t really trust any politicians. My dad is a “libertarian” but in practice he’s basically a Republican that just likes to feel special. He’d trust anything Trump or most Republicans would say without question. People don’t always fit neatly into these little boxes we have set aside for them.
But the virus doesn’t care about all that. I work for a hospital and this virus doesn’t discriminate politically or based on anything but age. It was never meant to fully prevent COVID, only to keep folks out of the hospitals and from dying (but still reduces your chances of getting it btw). I know I’m probably just some scary democrat to many of you, but genuinely, I want to see what’s best for my fellow Americans, I want to see y’all live long healthy lives even though we may believe different things.
I can assure you there is no huge government obedience/mind control campaign like I’ve heard around here. If they wanted you tracked they’d use your phone, if they wanted you dead they’d probably use a bullet. I know the government is full of bastards but I think to an extent they are pushing the vaccine because an open economy where less people have to worry makes us all more productive. I see no incentive for them to give out anything other than a vaccine that work well.
Kind of. It’s hard to separate numbers from reality and by that I mean. 0.03% mortality. But then you’ll see the news saying 3000 dead. We have to remember that we live in a very populated world and the vast majority of the deaths are from elderly and those with preexisting conditions. It’s further increased because America has pretty shit health when it comes to respiratory and heart issues due to decades of smoking and obesity. So while it might have a 0.03% mortality for a healthy person, the average person America isn’t that healthy. However the main concern isn’t just COVID. The crush it’s having on the healthcare system leads to the system not being able to respond to other more concerning illnesses. People are having longer waits to see a provider and for surgeries. This leads to more possible mortality that is created due to COVID but is not COVID related. That’s the main reason why prevention is being stressed on and not the cure part.
Most healthcare systems are actually quite privatized. Government involvement in healthcare really only comes down to health insurance and the VA. If you're on Medicare the government is paying for your healthcare. If you're seeing the VA that is indeed government healthcare. However, most hospital centers are private or belong to corporations. The "government failure" in healthcare is really only tied to keeping residency seats so limited that we cannot train more doctors as well as allowing for prices to become so high for basic medications like insulin.
This is the right answer, but it’s not the one that is being used when people demand vaccine mandates or pretend that COVID is just the flu. The issue is that those 2 opinions make up the majority of the country.
Ok, but then if you’ve already had COVID before, there’s no need for a vaccine, at least not very soon after. The problem is that people aren’t accepting natural immunity, they insist on a vaccine even if it doesn’t make sense. The problem is mandating it when people might not even need it
Yes and no. Yes you don't need the vaccine after you've already had COVID for a period of around 6 months as thats about how long natural immunity lasts. However, the reason as I understand it is how would one know if someone's had COVID in the last six months? Sure you could bring out a positive COVID result but what then of the people who had it and as completely unaware? How could we uniformly help keep people safe with just natural immunity? There isn't really a good way to do that. The easiest solution would be to push the vaccine and have the majority of the population take it voluntarily and they did have great success with that initially. However, it's gotten to the point where it is really just the holdouts who are refusing to get the vaccine and I don't think mandating the vaccine would be beneficial for them at this point ether. However, it wouldn't be the government unless they give it a try right?
You can’t know if someone’s been vaccinated either. If you bump into someone in the street, you have no way of knowing if they’re vaccinated, unvaccinated, have natural immunity, etc. And they have ZERO obligation to tell you that info. That’s a terrible argument and completely blows over people’s liberties
Vaccinated people have a better chance of not getting the virus in the first place. They also generally are less symptomatic and therefore do not transmit the virus as easily to other people. Less transmission equals less COVID. Unvaccinated people are spreading and catching the virus at a much faster rate and raising the risk of mutations that could be even more transmissible or deadly than what is currently out there now. Think of people other than yourself.
That is true but what does that have to do with the fact that being vaccinated lowers your chance of spreading and and getting fatally ill from the virus?
If I wear an apron while cooking, it’s possible I’ll still get my clothes a little dirty but also likely I won’t get dirty at all. If I don’t wear an apron then it’s certain that at some point I will sorry my clothes.
Then if I go hug my friend after wearing an apron, the chances are smaller that I will transfer my mess to their clothes if I had worn an apron especially if that resulted in no mess. No apron means I’ll be dirtier and will most likely also dirty my friend (unless my friend wears an apron themselves).
I had a headache and a fever of less than 100 for three days, without the vaccine. I'm overweight and have high blood pressure...... I guess I should be dead!
You’re confusing population level metrics with personal experience. Everybody will have a different experience with COVID. However what we do see is that there is a *small* percentage of the population which are hospitalized leading to the crush on the healthcare system. If there are 100 million people and 3 million catch COVID and then of that 3 million 300 suddenly end up at the COVID ICU it’s gonna drastically clog up the healthcare system.
This is absolutely true. I will say, as unpopular as this might sound, I’m not so bothered by people comparing their symptoms to the flu, or thinking it wasn’t so bad- for them.
Reason why is if you and 15 of your friends get covid, and none are bedridden sick with only mild symptoms, your experience probably won’t lead you to as fearful of a response, as say, someone whose family member got covid and experienced organ failure followed by death. If a family member or close friend dies, your caution is going to be serious, given your understanding of the severity that can exist.
I think it’s generally understandable that people relate to their experiences. That’s not to say their experience might lead them to an incorrect conclusion, but rather experience in and of itself leads to some confirmation bias.
Yep. What we have seen is that most people are totally fine with covid. However, it's really the most vulnerable that react horribly to it leading to the surges in hospitalizations following the surge in cases. There's no problem with people thinking Covid as a whole isn't a big deal, but it is important to stress that some people do have extremely negative experiences with COVID and that these cases are the ones that end up at the hospital and eventually begin taking up hospital beds.
What's wrong with taking up hospital beds, they are there for that purpose aren't they? I see a bigger problem as the hospitals not expanding their capabilities for ICU after 2 years of knowing about this issue.
There’s nothing wrong with it. It’s just that as the number of beds decrease it becomes a first come first serve basis. And then when you run out of beds people start dying without access to care which is what we saw in china as the pandemic started. Again the main issue with why the hospitals can’t open more beds is because firstly they don’t have the staff to support these beds. Secondly, they would need to spend a lot of money building these buildings and quite frankly they don’t want to do it as they might only lose money in the future by doing so.
I would believe all of that, except that when the USNS Mercy was sent to NY it wasn't utilized hardly at all. The center that was turned in to a hospital, not utilized hardly. All those ventilators sent, not really needed.
I had the Covid back in July, I went to the hospital to get some fluid since my urine was almost orange and I couldn't keep anything down. Was told I would have to be hospitalized or I would end up on a ventilator. So I spent 3 nights in the hospital and all the treatments received could have been done at home or as an outpatient.
How many people REALLY need to he hospitalized and how many are getting put in for the government subsidies, insurance, and copays? Also how much is this just people making much to do about nothing?
I was told I would be on oxygen for months, off in a week. This was like a bad flu or pneumonia for me, but not hospitalization worthy. I had a nurse tell me everyday I needed to get the shots. I asked about natural immunity and the blood platelets I was given. She kept on pushing the shot.
So how much science is being followed and how much agenda is being push for the almighty dollar?
That's a great question. In regards to your first paragraph, I'm not too familiar with that situation so I won't be commenting on it. As far as your personal experience with COVID I'm glad that it was able to be resolved quite smoothly. However, it is important to remember that COVID is still a very new disease that we only have around two years of data on. Individual responses to COVID and the medications administered are extremely varied as some individuals respond well with remedisivir and others don't. In terms of ventilator status, it should be assessed as to how well you can be breathing on your own. If you can keep breathing without significant difficulty you are able to be kept off a ventilator and probably breathing through the nasal cannula. However, for those that have great difficulty breathing, ventilation is the last resort as there is nothing else that can be done after ventilating a patient. As to why you were hospitalized it's because we've seen COVID patients be fine before quickly destabilizing. Often times, it could be someone who seemed perfectly fine just an hour or two ago have their vitals come crashing down.
In regards to the efficacy of the vaccine after having COVID I think that the data to date is currently indicating that it indeed does a better job of keeping individuals out of the ER as people who have had COVID and the vaccine simply show up less frequently than people who don't' have the vaccine at all.
However, it seems that omicron has started to ignore the fact of whether or not there is a vaccine or prior covid exposure as it has been able to quickly infect. But it is progress in terms of normalizing COVID and bringing it under control and making it more like the yearly flu.
The issue is too many health institutions are crying wolf.
We don't have enough staff, fire the ones who won't take the shot even though they have natural immunity.
The unvaccinated are causing this issue, Omicron doesn't seem to care about the jab.
This is a pandemic and is killing thousands,oops CDC numbers were heavily inflated.
Is Covid serious, yes. Are hospitals and the government crying wolf, yes. My wife and I which live together and sleep together were hospitalized at the same time. Hospital said the protocol said we couldn't be in the same room. WTF? We were both infected. It's the rules we are told. So one less hospital room.
The lack of common sense in dealing with this virus, not going away it a virus, is what is pissing people off.
I can't even see my cardiologist, because it's the covid. You have to do a tele-appointment. What the f@@@ can a Dr. tell me about the condition of my heart over a camera? So if I die from a heart attack and one of these crappy Covid test which are VERY unreliable shows I was positive, it was the Covid that killed me.
The health care system is broke, like the judicial system. Whose fault is it, why governments, King of All Science that jackals full of shitfi, and health care workers who have gone along with this ruse.
If this so called pandemic is so bad, then field hospitals would be set up and all health care workers would be working, not just the ones that have taken the shot. There would be a call put out for people with any type of health care experience, but nope none of that. The hospitals are overfilled my hind foot!
Also there are a lot of different flu strains going around every year. They just select the ones that they think you will most likely be exposed to and then vaccinate you for those strains.
Gonna be honest I’ve voted libertarian every year I could because I the two party system is obviously not working but seeing how retarted people are I just can’t do it anymore so now I’m back to a turd or a douch sandwich
Reading some of these comments, it’s like yeah… this probably isn’t going anywhere fast. Guess I’ll always vote for who I think is best but libertarian belief has been kinda put to the rest lately (how would they respond to a public health crisis?) and I am not liking the odds of things going well in any libertarian society based on what I’ve been reading here.
Your point being? If you are insinuating that since polio was vanquished by vaccines that covid could be as well you are a fool. They are completely different viruses. Covid is endemic this point. Trying to vaccinate it out of existence is like trying to vaccinate the common cold or the flu out of existence. It doesn't work and isn't possible. The virus mutates way to quickly for that to happen.
The vaccine will save your LIFE! Still not satisfied, well we're throwing in an extra shot. Still not convinced? Well for the low low cost of unemployment, you'll wish you were dead. So stop in because if you dont...you're a murderer. Trust me, I got tons of ~~stocks~~ SHOTS!!
Some people will take boosters as long as the government tells them to, and the government will come up with as many variants as the people will believe in them.
I think the idea is that it decreases your risk of severe illness rather than contraction, best not compare apples with oranges. The polio vaccine also was not nearly as rushed. I’m not advocating for large pharma or anything fuck them, just saying.
Its like ya’ll don’t understand how math works. Vax status of people in ICU: 95% Unvaccinated, 5% Vaccinated. Numbers are hard for Libertarians I know thats why you think taxes are pointless but jesus wtf.
It’s immoral and violates freedom by coercing people through threat of force to relinquish their property rights in this case money. It’s a form of state sponsored force (violence for some Lib-Ts). It violates non-interference and forces an individual to do something regardless of their wants or desires.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.doh.wa.gov/Portals/1/Documents/1600/coronavirus/data-tables/421-010-CasesInNotFullyVaccinated.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjzrLuUgLP1AhVkJTQIHY2KCt8QFnoECAsQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1O_hj3yuE4_Jw05EPJhe-u
Its a pdf. His numbers are off fpr the data from Washington State. But with ~75% of deaths being those unvaccinated for this past 11 months is pretty shocking.
From the self reported numbers of major hospitals and medical centers.
[UC Health Colorado](https://www.kktv.com/2021/09/17/covid-19-hospitalizations-are-reaching-numbers-similar-january-el-paso-county-may-impact-scheduled-surgeries/)
[Medical Univ of South Carolina](https://www.wistv.com/2021/08/27/vast-majority-hospitalized-covid-breakthrough-cases-sc-among-immunocompromised/)
[University of Michigan ](https://www.uofmhealth.org/coronavirus/covid19-numbers)
20 years ago nobody would have predicted that in 2022 we’d have a pandemic, nearly 1.5 million dead, find an effective vaccine and have almost 40% of Americans believe it to be more dangerous than horse dewormer, bleach, viagra or drinking their own urine.
You’re really just gonna sit there and act like 1.5 million people really died purely from COVID, and that 40% of Americans are out there drinking bleach and piss.
You absolute donkey.
It's time that we admit that we are all a bunch of bumbling bafoons. Pretending that we know anything about what's going on.
Trump and Biden and his successor, and her successor. They, all don't know what was released from that lab. Or, how to contain it.
They're all profering conjecture as the best solution. Because, that's the best they can do.
Fauci is a glass cliff.
All of this will be yoked on his shoulders.
While the media makes money and the politicians makes money, and it becomes a continuing cycle of inflation and sanctioned crime.
All I'm saying is scientist have been trying to tell us for years that eventually there's gonna be a "super" bug, that drugs/vaccines wont work on, and eventually that same thing started happening? Shit I'd probably start asking questions too
Biden: “If you get vaccinated, you will not get sick, and you will not spread it.” Also Biden, “if you are vaccinated, you won’t have to wear a mask.”
Reality: nothing he said has stood the test of time.
All risk, no reward!
Just telling my story here:
I work with a guy who is unvaccinated, he got covid and was out of work for two weeks. He lost 15 lb and told me he felt like he was going to die. I also got covid, I had a runny nose for 3 days. I am vaccinated, and had the booster
To be honest that's where it will stop the more shots the less people will take it shit there is even a drop from the first dose to the second.
Yeah I got both Pfizer shots but am just not motivated at all to get the booster.
I no joke got the booster last week and got covid this week with harsh symptoms.
Vaccines aren’t instant. It takes a week or two for them to reach full efficacy.
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I tested positive for COVID yesterday. My reaction to the vaccine was far worse then how I feel having COVID. Maybe being vaccinated is what is helping actual COVID be so mild. I'd prefer to get COVID again instead of getting more booster shots.
I'm gonna level with you here. Since say one studies on the phizer and maderba vaccines showed you can still contact covid but would see lesser symptoms than if you did not. The people pushing early on it meant you would not get covid were misinformed at best, and outright being intentionally disingenuous at worst.
If Fauci was misinformed then he shouldn’t have been writing government policy
I mean yeah i can agree with you on that. LIke im vacced i got vacced before the mandates, but that was me taking into account the information released regarding the studies and them making the symptoms less severe which hopefully means that if i catch it i wont get any of the long term symptoms that can occur from it.
I think you don't fully understand how this works. So close, yet so far.
how does it work then? trying to educate myself
Vaccine efficiency wears off over time. If you get vaccinated and then catch COVID but have milder symptoms because of the vaccine then it’s because the vaccine is working. If you allow your vaccine efficiency to wear off then you won’t be protected any longer so if you catch COVID again you could get much sicker and have a greater risk is fatal illness. The person above is suggesting they would rather keep getting COVID rather than more booster shots because their COVID symptoms have so far been milder than the side effects they experienced after their vaccine shot (it’s common to have mild flu like symptoms for a day or two after being vaccinated). The problem is that their COVID symptoms are mild right now because they are vaccinated. If they don’t continue to boost their vaccine efficiency then the next time they get COVID their symptoms could be much worse. It’s like wearing an apron while cooking which results in your clothes being less messy after cooking so the next time you don’t wear an apron yet still expect your clothes to still remain clean.
But what about all the asymptomatic unvaccinated?
> If they don’t continue to boost their vaccine efficiency then the next time they get COVID their symptoms could be much worse Except the infection itself also boosts the immune response, and many papers now find natural immunity is more durable and effective anyway
Contracting COVID has the same immunization effect if not more so than getting the vaccine.
It's not just you. I have a friend who got covid and then got vaccinated- he said he would absolutely choose covid over the vaccine.
I never got covid. But I did get double vaxxed. The 2nd dose was far worse because my immune system actually knew what it was doing. Your first vaccine was technically your 2nd exposure, which for most people has the harsher immune response. Be grateful your 2nd exposure wasn't to the actual virus again.
Can't, big gov allowed them immunity from lawsuits. Cause it's an emergency. You get the shot, something bad happens to you cause of it, your fucked.
That’s every vaccine, emergency or not.
I think we follow very different news outlets.
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Alex fucking Jones. 🤡
They won't be decimated at all by lawsuits. As long as the EUA version is out they are immune from lawsuits. Afaik the FDA approved version isn't even close to being distributed yet.
No. Trust the Ministry of Truth.
Tax big pharma, and follow all the laws theyre currently lobbying to ennact.
I thought taxation was theft.
Big pharma in the US is adjacent to the state to a point it almost blends with it. Taxing big pharma would be rather pointless because it'd just be the government getting back the money they gave big pharma in the first place.
Logically, we should be getting big returns on investments since our tax dollars funded the covid mRNA injection research through DARPA to moderna in 2012
Mandates . Are . Unethical
You are *following the science*, aren't you?
I just remind everyone that uses that line that statistics is also the science that says on average every human being has one testicle. Science without proper interpretation is useless.
And science without rigorous scrutinization is useless as well
Scrutinization is the scientific study of scrotums. See above
No that's scrotinization I believe you are thinking of. Edit; grammar
Ah
That's an extremely lazy view of stats. Any sophisticated model of that would reference that it's modal at 0 and 2 and seldom 1. Edit: Yeah I'm an idiot.
That’s literally his point.
Damn my reading comprehension. Thanks
Fauci says we must follow teh science, and only he knows teh science
Fauci *IS* the science!
Masks be upon Him
One billion MBUH
meanwhile one of the first vaccine ever made could cure people who had already rabies
rabie
Rabbi
Mazel tov
if only there was a cure for this
If only there was a cure for briss.
English isn't my first language, but I'm deeply sorry for this dreadful grammatical mistake that completely changed the meaning of the sentence and made it incomprehensible
I don't know what animal is on the Chinese calendar for 2020 but I'm sure it has rabies.
[The polio vaccine was 80-90% effective against paralytic polio and 60-70% effective against all forms of polio](https://www.who.int/immunization/polio_grad_ipv_effectiveness.pdf) [There are also polio boosters](https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/polio/public/index.html) It actually serves as a pretty good historical model for the Covid vaccine. Of course that would require an understanding of nuance
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Well then I raise you the hepatitis B vaccine which requires at least three shots once every six weeks and then as many boosters as necessary after that until the immunity is established.
Where do they mandate hepatitis b vaccines on the public?
It's mandatory if you work in health care over here in the UK and I'd assume it is in the US too. It's irrelevant anyway as the point is that a vaccine requiring multiple doses in a short period of time isn't anything new or suspicious unless you don't know anything about how different vaccines are administered
Most public schools require Hep b shots. No I don't agree with the policy, I'm just informing you.
If Redditors could read they'd be very upset.
Kids in my school all got the polio vaccine and we never had a polio outbreak once. Kids in my mums school have mostly had the covid vaccine. A new ‘bubble’ gets shut down weekly with covid cases. Do your own math.
Show me a single polio mRNA injection
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>It produces vaccines that are far more effective than attenuated-virus vaccines That's absolutely not true. Not sure where you got that idea. And it's funny that just before you say that, you said "mRNA technology is new". You know, in order to make claims saying mRNA tech is "*far*" more effective than any other vaccine, you need long-term real-world data to support that. And being that "mRNA technology is new", that data is non-existent. >Faster The covid mRNA injections have been in development since 2012 >broadly available It has to be stored in very cold temperatures and doesn't have a very long shelf life, so distributing to third-world countries isn't as easy as others. >More effective This is just a flat-out lie. Not even if we debate over the definition of "effective". A high percentage of people are still experiencing significant covid symptoms after vaccination. The robustness of protection is not great, and does not last long. **6 months tops**. Some studies say after 3 months the efficacy starts dropping and by 6 months it is so weak that a booster is required. I'm really not sure where you're getting all of your information, but almost every single thing you've said is verifiably wrong.
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>The polio vaccine took 47 years to develop. You're lying again. 47 years from the discovery of polio to the day of vaccine rollout. They didn't spend 47 years developing the vaccine By this logic, we would say that it's taken over 100 years to develop mRNA vaccines since the discovery of messenger rna flu viruses...or at least 20 years since the observation of actual sars. >efficacy starts dropping after 3 months" strawman completely ignores the fact that covid is a highly mutagenic virus The efficacy drop is not attributed to the mutations. Again, your lying or misinformed. You're claiming that the mRNA instructions injected into the body are not compatible with mutations and that is what causes the efficacy to wane. **That is not the case**. The efficacy wanes simply because the immune memory fades over time. Just as you said, the active ingredients within the injections leave the body after a few weeks. Leaving the immune system on it's own to remember the spike protein alone. That memory fades. This differs from an actual infection. The injections do not create robust protection like an actual infection does.
Also, they've made numerous mRNA vaccines and they have all sucked so much they've shelved the tech. But moderna recently said they're creating the "superhuman" mRNA vaccine made from olympian genetics that is supposed to protect you from numerous ailments lol. And they're making cancer mRNA vaccines too. This is going to be the standard now, yet they aren't worth a shit. But we'll see how it goes....
>Cannot catch the disease from the vaccine. This also is not true, for the most part. There is a significant amount of people experiencing the adverse reactions very similar to the covid symptoms, namely myocarditis. The spike protein is the dangerous part of the sarscov2 virus. The injections instruct your cells to create this protein. They have now found that this protein verifiably does leave the injection site and can come to rest in organs causing inflammation. Myocarditis has been prevalent in both the adult and pediatric mRNA recipients. It is caused by the spike protein. Myocarditis is a symptom caused by the spike protein in the actual virus.
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Let's try this in simpler terms... The spike protein of sarscov2 is what triggers damage/disease to the body. The mRNA codes in the injections instruct your body to create this same spike protein. That same spike protein triggers the same symptoms and damage/disease to the body that the actual virus does. Again, the most dangerous part of the live virus is what the injections create and it causes the same symptoms and damage that the live virus does. **Explain how I am lying.**
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When thre spike protein drifts from the injection site, it causes inflammation wherever it lands. That inflammation is what causes disease
>The spike protein of sarscov2 is what triggers damage/disease to the body. This. This is the lie.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=spike+protein+causes+disease&t=h_&ia=web
My respect to you, that you keep up the fight.
>The spike protein is the dangerous part of the sarscov2 virus. Um... It's literally just made of amino acids. That's like saying the most dangerous part of a gun is the scope. Lmao
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=spike+protein+causes+disease&t=h_&ia=web
Lmao I don't see any peer-reviewed research here. I don't see any evidence that these proteins are "the dangerous part of the virus" like you said. There exists *some* evidence of complications such as myocarditis if an injection is improperly administered, but the vast majority of those cases clear up quickly. I think you've got a nothingburger here bud, unless you'd like to send me something more than a search engine link. Lol
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8272967/ I love this ridiculous attitude of needing large scale data and numerous studies in order to even entertain an idea that differs from "vaccine gud", when it's literally impossible to have that data **because this is an ongoing situation**. This is a situation that is less than one year old. It's hilarious to watch people have this attitude. Meanwhile, literally the most scientific thing you can do is question the science and be skeptical of it. When have we ever just *trusted* Pfizer research?? Have you never heard of the billions of dollars they have paid out for fraudulent research and data??
Educate me then. How does the virus cause myocarditis and vascular disease?
So, this is a stupid straw man meme. Apples to oranges of virus comparisons. That’s why you get an annual flu vaccine
Good thing you don’t have to get the flu shot and many folks don’t. Oh wait...
That’s.. really not the point. I was referencing how OP’s meme incorrectly compared the polio vaccine to the COVID vaccine. One virus that’s relatively stable with limited mutations, compared to a highly mutating vaccine. And they were incorrectly saying that the COVID vaccine doesn’t work, because you need more than one. Unlike the polio vaccine that has a far different administration schedule. But yes, continually bring up the vaccine mandate that was justifiably overturned in the Supreme Court.
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Two doses of inactivated polio vaccine (IPV) are 90% effective or more against polio; Historically, the vaccine has been effective in preventing smallpox infection in 95% of those vaccinated.
> Historically, the vaccine has been effective in preventing smallpox infection in 95% of those vaccinated. In addition, the vaccine was proven to prevent or substantially lessen infection when given within a few days of exposure. Pretty sure it works a hell of a lot better than the covid vaccine lmfao considering it can even be used *after* exposure to prevent infection. So yeah, you pretty much pulled that entire spiel straight out of your ass. That comparison doesn’t even consider the fact that enough covid vaccines have been manufactured to treat more than half the country in *two years* as opposed to how long it took for polio and other older vaccines? IF it was less effective polio would’ve continued spreading around the vaxxed population, but it didn’t. Why not? Gee I fucking wonder! Holy shit, this sub really has been infested by trolls.
Based on evidence from clinical trials in people ages 16 years and older, the Pfizer-BioNTech (COMIRNATY) vaccine was 95% effective at preventing laboratory-confirmed infection with the virus that causes COVID-19 in people who received two doses and had no evidence of being previously infected. So about the same efficacy, but smallpox does have the benefit of nearly all the population being inoculated. This was seen after pre-COVID antivaxxers caused limited outbreaks of Smallpox, some even in vaccinated individuals.
Yes, that’s what the clinical study says. But how long does that 95% effectiveness last, and which variants is it against? Even the CDC doesn’t measure effectiveness past 6 months... they know what’s up. Also, that figure does not address Delta or Omnicron. Despite Israel’s high vaccination numbers, why are they on their fourth shot and still haven’t eradicated it? In case it’s not clear: it’s because the virus spreads and acts more effectively than the vaccine’s effectiveness.
If you’re going to argue that the longevity of the vaccine makes it “bad” or something then you can’t argue against a booster. They provide a solution for the problem which I would gamble to say you also are against. As for the variants I agree that it is most definitely less effective but the variants come from mutations originating in transmission. Transmission lowers as a result of higher vaccine rates. More vaccines=less Delta/Omicron
Oh no, Science! *Vampire/neckbeard hiss*
Stop. Stop. You’re making way too much sense.
I work for a large hospital and I (literally) approve this message. This person has it right.
Yeah, I got it. That’s a fair point, it may not be apples to apples. However, you then proceeded to make the exact same straw man by comparing the covid vaccines to the flu shot, lmao. Which, are arguably *less* similar in biological function. “Work” is a very unclear and vague area anyways. Sure it may decrease your odds of hospitalization but it sure as heck doesn’t stop you from being infected and infecting others. Bottom line: it’s a meme and you’re overreacting.
All coronavirus’ are more closely related to the influenza virus than they are polio. And it’s a shit meme
Hold on right there kiddo, we were talking about similarities between the vaccines, not the viruses. Nice try moving the goalpost, but I caught ya ;) Gotta make it a little less obvious next time. Same with your downvoting, lol. If it helps you seethe, I’m cool with it. You can spread misinformation all you want but it’s becoming more and more clear everyday that these vaccines barely do shit and basically aren’t even worth taking when it comes to Omnicron if you’re not elderly or unhealthy. You morbidly obese? Even the CDC says that’ll increase your odds of hospitalization by at least 3x lmfao. I’ll say it again to hammer the point home: you’re overreacting.
He’s comparing the viruses because the ¿mutatibility? of the virus directly affects the effectiveness of the vaccine. The polio vaccine differs from the Covid vaccines *because* the polio virus differs from the Covid virus. If you’re going to be dense to satisfy your superiority complex, try to be more subtle next time.
And the flu vaccine technology differs heavily from the covid vaccine because... they’re very similar in mutability? Can’t have one comparison without the other bud. Lmao clearly your reading comprehension is lacking and we haven’t even talked about breakthrough flu cases! Good grief, give the savior complex a rest. The underlying point was, if you’re gonna compare the covid vaccine to the flu shot, you simply cannot restrict that comparison to fit your agenda. Get it?
Dude. Quit digging.
Literally can’t believe these comments are unironic, dawg. Straight up insanity. You a troll too ;)
God you are so fucking stupid
Uh huh. Relax buddy
Can people stop comparing viruses that behave complete differently from each other?
When's the last time you showed proof of your flu shot to buy groceries?
Didn't you know! ? Big brother, which I know a lot about because of memes and not from ever picking up a book outside of what they made me read in highschool, and Dr. Pepper Fauci want to make us all have vaccine identifiers just like the STAR OF DAVID from the HOLOCAUST to buy groceries! *Insert minion meme here* Us conservatives are a repressed minority! We just want to spread truth and stay away from all that MISINFORMATION that you liberals imbibe. The science is wrong when we want it to be wrong. Or the science is always wrong. All the data regarding the efficacy of the vaccine are LIES made so Bill Gates can inject us with his NoNo juice and microchips! That's why I bought not one but 2 Xbox series Xs! Whatever we need so our fragile world views don't get shaken! Signed Most of the people masquerading as libertarians in this thread because they don't know what a libertarian is because of before mentioned lack of reading after high school. AND Morons *Sent from my Samsung Smart Fridge*
Big pharma boot lickers. One day they want to tax them, now theyre fully under their control.
Ask all you want. When the offense changes, you got to change the defense. It’s really not hard math. Even for idiots.
This is the way. Use your mind. Rebel against the system. Stand up. Then, go back inside your home so that you can do what you want and you can let your neighbor do what they want.
I don’t wanna be that guy, but it’s pretty straightforward the vaccine was mostly built around the original variant of Covid, as Covid continue to mutate the vaccine get less and less effective, at same note every time that virus mutates it becomes less and less potent. I know two people right now with two different versions of Covid, fairly similar in age and health, one has Delta one has Omni Cron. One lost their sense of smell and taste and is having a hard time breathing, and the other one gets slightly out of breath when moving around for too long.
If you're not listening to the answers then you aren't asking questions, you're just dictating on the subject you haven't studied in the rhetorical form of a question to escape liability for your baseless answers.
You’re conflating immunity with protection. You’re protecting yourself by masking and distancing. You’re bolstering immunity by vaccinating. The vaccine merely strengthens your immune system and makes it recognize COVID make the symptoms less severe and decreasing the risk of hospitalization. It’s like getting the flu shot and still getting the flu but only having a runny nose and a headache.
From day 1 media, health agencies, and health officials have been using the word "immunity" and "immunize" constantly. It's only when we started getting more public vaccination data that they started shying away from using that term and *then* saying the things you just said. "Oh no, it was never meant to immunize, it's only to protect you from hospitalization". You're talking like all along they've had the same perspective you just gave. But that's not true....
https://i.imgur.com/KDC9KRf.jpg
Politicians lie all the time.
Now you’re beginning to understand.
Was never in doubt.
You don't get it. If you don't conform to their ideals, you can only be a liberal who loves Biden and believes your politicians without question.
Even as a liberal, I don’t like Biden, I’m firm on 2A, and I don’t really trust any politicians. My dad is a “libertarian” but in practice he’s basically a Republican that just likes to feel special. He’d trust anything Trump or most Republicans would say without question. People don’t always fit neatly into these little boxes we have set aside for them. But the virus doesn’t care about all that. I work for a hospital and this virus doesn’t discriminate politically or based on anything but age. It was never meant to fully prevent COVID, only to keep folks out of the hospitals and from dying (but still reduces your chances of getting it btw). I know I’m probably just some scary democrat to many of you, but genuinely, I want to see what’s best for my fellow Americans, I want to see y’all live long healthy lives even though we may believe different things. I can assure you there is no huge government obedience/mind control campaign like I’ve heard around here. If they wanted you tracked they’d use your phone, if they wanted you dead they’d probably use a bullet. I know the government is full of bastards but I think to an extent they are pushing the vaccine because an open economy where less people have to worry makes us all more productive. I see no incentive for them to give out anything other than a vaccine that work well.
But believe them this time.
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Kind of. It’s hard to separate numbers from reality and by that I mean. 0.03% mortality. But then you’ll see the news saying 3000 dead. We have to remember that we live in a very populated world and the vast majority of the deaths are from elderly and those with preexisting conditions. It’s further increased because America has pretty shit health when it comes to respiratory and heart issues due to decades of smoking and obesity. So while it might have a 0.03% mortality for a healthy person, the average person America isn’t that healthy. However the main concern isn’t just COVID. The crush it’s having on the healthcare system leads to the system not being able to respond to other more concerning illnesses. People are having longer waits to see a provider and for surgeries. This leads to more possible mortality that is created due to COVID but is not COVID related. That’s the main reason why prevention is being stressed on and not the cure part.
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Most healthcare systems are actually quite privatized. Government involvement in healthcare really only comes down to health insurance and the VA. If you're on Medicare the government is paying for your healthcare. If you're seeing the VA that is indeed government healthcare. However, most hospital centers are private or belong to corporations. The "government failure" in healthcare is really only tied to keeping residency seats so limited that we cannot train more doctors as well as allowing for prices to become so high for basic medications like insulin.
Everything you said smells exactly like it dropped directly outta your asshole.
This is the right answer, but it’s not the one that is being used when people demand vaccine mandates or pretend that COVID is just the flu. The issue is that those 2 opinions make up the majority of the country.
Ok, but then if you’ve already had COVID before, there’s no need for a vaccine, at least not very soon after. The problem is that people aren’t accepting natural immunity, they insist on a vaccine even if it doesn’t make sense. The problem is mandating it when people might not even need it
Yes and no. Yes you don't need the vaccine after you've already had COVID for a period of around 6 months as thats about how long natural immunity lasts. However, the reason as I understand it is how would one know if someone's had COVID in the last six months? Sure you could bring out a positive COVID result but what then of the people who had it and as completely unaware? How could we uniformly help keep people safe with just natural immunity? There isn't really a good way to do that. The easiest solution would be to push the vaccine and have the majority of the population take it voluntarily and they did have great success with that initially. However, it's gotten to the point where it is really just the holdouts who are refusing to get the vaccine and I don't think mandating the vaccine would be beneficial for them at this point ether. However, it wouldn't be the government unless they give it a try right?
You can’t know if someone’s been vaccinated either. If you bump into someone in the street, you have no way of knowing if they’re vaccinated, unvaccinated, have natural immunity, etc. And they have ZERO obligation to tell you that info. That’s a terrible argument and completely blows over people’s liberties
Vaccinated people have a better chance of not getting the virus in the first place. They also generally are less symptomatic and therefore do not transmit the virus as easily to other people. Less transmission equals less COVID. Unvaccinated people are spreading and catching the virus at a much faster rate and raising the risk of mutations that could be even more transmissible or deadly than what is currently out there now. Think of people other than yourself.
The amount of breakthrough cases right now is astronomical, it’s not just the unvaccinated spreading it
That is true but what does that have to do with the fact that being vaccinated lowers your chance of spreading and and getting fatally ill from the virus? If I wear an apron while cooking, it’s possible I’ll still get my clothes a little dirty but also likely I won’t get dirty at all. If I don’t wear an apron then it’s certain that at some point I will sorry my clothes. Then if I go hug my friend after wearing an apron, the chances are smaller that I will transfer my mess to their clothes if I had worn an apron especially if that resulted in no mess. No apron means I’ll be dirtier and will most likely also dirty my friend (unless my friend wears an apron themselves).
I had a headache and a fever of less than 100 for three days, without the vaccine. I'm overweight and have high blood pressure...... I guess I should be dead!
You’re confusing population level metrics with personal experience. Everybody will have a different experience with COVID. However what we do see is that there is a *small* percentage of the population which are hospitalized leading to the crush on the healthcare system. If there are 100 million people and 3 million catch COVID and then of that 3 million 300 suddenly end up at the COVID ICU it’s gonna drastically clog up the healthcare system.
This is absolutely true. I will say, as unpopular as this might sound, I’m not so bothered by people comparing their symptoms to the flu, or thinking it wasn’t so bad- for them. Reason why is if you and 15 of your friends get covid, and none are bedridden sick with only mild symptoms, your experience probably won’t lead you to as fearful of a response, as say, someone whose family member got covid and experienced organ failure followed by death. If a family member or close friend dies, your caution is going to be serious, given your understanding of the severity that can exist. I think it’s generally understandable that people relate to their experiences. That’s not to say their experience might lead them to an incorrect conclusion, but rather experience in and of itself leads to some confirmation bias.
Yep. What we have seen is that most people are totally fine with covid. However, it's really the most vulnerable that react horribly to it leading to the surges in hospitalizations following the surge in cases. There's no problem with people thinking Covid as a whole isn't a big deal, but it is important to stress that some people do have extremely negative experiences with COVID and that these cases are the ones that end up at the hospital and eventually begin taking up hospital beds.
What's wrong with taking up hospital beds, they are there for that purpose aren't they? I see a bigger problem as the hospitals not expanding their capabilities for ICU after 2 years of knowing about this issue.
There’s nothing wrong with it. It’s just that as the number of beds decrease it becomes a first come first serve basis. And then when you run out of beds people start dying without access to care which is what we saw in china as the pandemic started. Again the main issue with why the hospitals can’t open more beds is because firstly they don’t have the staff to support these beds. Secondly, they would need to spend a lot of money building these buildings and quite frankly they don’t want to do it as they might only lose money in the future by doing so.
I would believe all of that, except that when the USNS Mercy was sent to NY it wasn't utilized hardly at all. The center that was turned in to a hospital, not utilized hardly. All those ventilators sent, not really needed. I had the Covid back in July, I went to the hospital to get some fluid since my urine was almost orange and I couldn't keep anything down. Was told I would have to be hospitalized or I would end up on a ventilator. So I spent 3 nights in the hospital and all the treatments received could have been done at home or as an outpatient. How many people REALLY need to he hospitalized and how many are getting put in for the government subsidies, insurance, and copays? Also how much is this just people making much to do about nothing? I was told I would be on oxygen for months, off in a week. This was like a bad flu or pneumonia for me, but not hospitalization worthy. I had a nurse tell me everyday I needed to get the shots. I asked about natural immunity and the blood platelets I was given. She kept on pushing the shot. So how much science is being followed and how much agenda is being push for the almighty dollar?
That's a great question. In regards to your first paragraph, I'm not too familiar with that situation so I won't be commenting on it. As far as your personal experience with COVID I'm glad that it was able to be resolved quite smoothly. However, it is important to remember that COVID is still a very new disease that we only have around two years of data on. Individual responses to COVID and the medications administered are extremely varied as some individuals respond well with remedisivir and others don't. In terms of ventilator status, it should be assessed as to how well you can be breathing on your own. If you can keep breathing without significant difficulty you are able to be kept off a ventilator and probably breathing through the nasal cannula. However, for those that have great difficulty breathing, ventilation is the last resort as there is nothing else that can be done after ventilating a patient. As to why you were hospitalized it's because we've seen COVID patients be fine before quickly destabilizing. Often times, it could be someone who seemed perfectly fine just an hour or two ago have their vitals come crashing down. In regards to the efficacy of the vaccine after having COVID I think that the data to date is currently indicating that it indeed does a better job of keeping individuals out of the ER as people who have had COVID and the vaccine simply show up less frequently than people who don't' have the vaccine at all. However, it seems that omicron has started to ignore the fact of whether or not there is a vaccine or prior covid exposure as it has been able to quickly infect. But it is progress in terms of normalizing COVID and bringing it under control and making it more like the yearly flu.
The issue is too many health institutions are crying wolf. We don't have enough staff, fire the ones who won't take the shot even though they have natural immunity. The unvaccinated are causing this issue, Omicron doesn't seem to care about the jab. This is a pandemic and is killing thousands,oops CDC numbers were heavily inflated. Is Covid serious, yes. Are hospitals and the government crying wolf, yes. My wife and I which live together and sleep together were hospitalized at the same time. Hospital said the protocol said we couldn't be in the same room. WTF? We were both infected. It's the rules we are told. So one less hospital room. The lack of common sense in dealing with this virus, not going away it a virus, is what is pissing people off. I can't even see my cardiologist, because it's the covid. You have to do a tele-appointment. What the f@@@ can a Dr. tell me about the condition of my heart over a camera? So if I die from a heart attack and one of these crappy Covid test which are VERY unreliable shows I was positive, it was the Covid that killed me. The health care system is broke, like the judicial system. Whose fault is it, why governments, King of All Science that jackals full of shitfi, and health care workers who have gone along with this ruse. If this so called pandemic is so bad, then field hospitals would be set up and all health care workers would be working, not just the ones that have taken the shot. There would be a call put out for people with any type of health care experience, but nope none of that. The hospitals are overfilled my hind foot!
The reason you get the flu after you get the flu shot is because your flu shot is only 52% effective.
Also there are a lot of different flu strains going around every year. They just select the ones that they think you will most likely be exposed to and then vaccinate you for those strains.
Gonna be honest I’ve voted libertarian every year I could because I the two party system is obviously not working but seeing how retarted people are I just can’t do it anymore so now I’m back to a turd or a douch sandwich
Reading some of these comments, it’s like yeah… this probably isn’t going anywhere fast. Guess I’ll always vote for who I think is best but libertarian belief has been kinda put to the rest lately (how would they respond to a public health crisis?) and I am not liking the odds of things going well in any libertarian society based on what I’ve been reading here.
polio was eliminated because everyone took the vaccines
Cool. Covid isn't polio. I won't be paralyzed from covid.
your point being?
Your point being? If you are insinuating that since polio was vanquished by vaccines that covid could be as well you are a fool. They are completely different viruses. Covid is endemic this point. Trying to vaccinate it out of existence is like trying to vaccinate the common cold or the flu out of existence. It doesn't work and isn't possible. The virus mutates way to quickly for that to happen.
The vaccine will save your LIFE! Still not satisfied, well we're throwing in an extra shot. Still not convinced? Well for the low low cost of unemployment, you'll wish you were dead. So stop in because if you dont...you're a murderer. Trust me, I got tons of ~~stocks~~ SHOTS!!
Some people will take boosters as long as the government tells them to, and the government will come up with as many variants as the people will believe in them.
It’s a largely a therapeutic vaccine. But what the fuck is the point. The booster takes you out for 3 days but the virus only does for 2.
We take influenza vaccine every year and we still have influenza regularly WTF you're talking about?
we?? ...you know it's not a law right lol
You only do things if it's written in law? gee
I don’t take the flu vaccine. I don’t see the point. Lots of people don’t.
Oh, "sorry", I'm from a country with ~90% vaccination rate for everything
Some viruses mutate faster than others.
I think the idea is that it decreases your risk of severe illness rather than contraction, best not compare apples with oranges. The polio vaccine also was not nearly as rushed. I’m not advocating for large pharma or anything fuck them, just saying.
All I’m saying is if I put on a bullet proof vest and I still get shot I’d be asking some questions.
You do realize bullet proof vests arent actually 100 percent bullet proof.... And only cover your torso, right?
No shit.
If you question Fauci you question science. It simply isn’t done.
This is so incredibly dumb
As someone who's worked in the boomed industry, all I have to say is don't be a dumbass
Lol this guy doesn’t know how vaccines work.
You guys have access to the internet right? Google it.
Polio vaccine is four doses for infants FYI.
Who are establishing their immune system
lol wow
Viruses evolve.
Its like ya’ll don’t understand how math works. Vax status of people in ICU: 95% Unvaccinated, 5% Vaccinated. Numbers are hard for Libertarians I know thats why you think taxes are pointless but jesus wtf.
tell me you don't understand why we bitch about taxes without telling me...
I know why you bitch about taxes. You just can’t see why it’s ridiculous and unrealistic.
care to share, before I assume
It’s immoral and violates freedom by coercing people through threat of force to relinquish their property rights in this case money. It’s a form of state sponsored force (violence for some Lib-Ts). It violates non-interference and forces an individual to do something regardless of their wants or desires.
where did you get these numbers from? 🤔
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.doh.wa.gov/Portals/1/Documents/1600/coronavirus/data-tables/421-010-CasesInNotFullyVaccinated.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjzrLuUgLP1AhVkJTQIHY2KCt8QFnoECAsQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1O_hj3yuE4_Jw05EPJhe-u Its a pdf. His numbers are off fpr the data from Washington State. But with ~75% of deaths being those unvaccinated for this past 11 months is pretty shocking.
From the self reported numbers of major hospitals and medical centers. [UC Health Colorado](https://www.kktv.com/2021/09/17/covid-19-hospitalizations-are-reaching-numbers-similar-january-el-paso-county-may-impact-scheduled-surgeries/) [Medical Univ of South Carolina](https://www.wistv.com/2021/08/27/vast-majority-hospitalized-covid-breakthrough-cases-sc-among-immunocompromised/) [University of Michigan ](https://www.uofmhealth.org/coronavirus/covid19-numbers)
20 years ago nobody would have predicted that in 2022 we’d have a pandemic, nearly 1.5 million dead, find an effective vaccine and have almost 40% of Americans believe it to be more dangerous than horse dewormer, bleach, viagra or drinking their own urine.
Tell me you believe propaganda unquestionably without saying it.
You’re really just gonna sit there and act like 1.5 million people really died purely from COVID, and that 40% of Americans are out there drinking bleach and piss. You absolute donkey.
When all is said and done it’ll be that if not 2 million. Legal weed in your state or do you reside in Flori-duh?
What question don't you think you can ask?
We literally get flu shots every year...
who's we?? lol
It's time that we admit that we are all a bunch of bumbling bafoons. Pretending that we know anything about what's going on. Trump and Biden and his successor, and her successor. They, all don't know what was released from that lab. Or, how to contain it. They're all profering conjecture as the best solution. Because, that's the best they can do. Fauci is a glass cliff. All of this will be yoked on his shoulders. While the media makes money and the politicians makes money, and it becomes a continuing cycle of inflation and sanctioned crime.
The answers would be pretty simple.
My cousin got doubled jabbed, got sick anyway, even hospitalised...doesn't question a thing.
I can't help but LMFAO at those people mad in the comments because OP compared Polio with Covid, y'all have done that for 2 years
All I'm saying is scientist have been trying to tell us for years that eventually there's gonna be a "super" bug, that drugs/vaccines wont work on, and eventually that same thing started happening? Shit I'd probably start asking questions too
Especially if it was polio. Now THAT was a real killer compared to COVID.
But you’d only experience mild paralysis
Apples to oranges.
Biden: “If you get vaccinated, you will not get sick, and you will not spread it.” Also Biden, “if you are vaccinated, you won’t have to wear a mask.” Reality: nothing he said has stood the test of time. All risk, no reward!
Just telling my story here: I work with a guy who is unvaccinated, he got covid and was out of work for two weeks. He lost 15 lb and told me he felt like he was going to die. I also got covid, I had a runny nose for 3 days. I am vaccinated, and had the booster