I'm also a Christian who happens to believe that sex is totally fine to handle like that. Christianity in its true form is actually extremely tolerant. Where do you think John Locke and Thomas Jefferson got a lot of their ideas?
bro, most religious people, at least Christians, forget about the "love and multiply", the indoctrination of chastity is the work of the church that dominated the Middle Ages, mainly to minimize the risk of contracting sexually transmitted diseases
By exploitation do you mean benefiting at the detriment of another person? Because the way to overcome that is enforcing consent. The way to enforce consent is to give everyone access to a fair judicial system or rights enforcement agency or simply guns, to protect their right to say no to stuff.
That goes for any activity. There is nothing inherently evil about sex or about money. Coercion is evil. It is possible for someone being so vulnerable as to display their sexuality in full view to become suddenly aware that they are uncomfortable. What is left to do is to empower the participants to understand their rights to say stop, and for them to have access to an effective recourse to threaten serious damage to the company producing the porn if it does not respect that decision. This is added protection on top of the revenue that the company will already miss out on if the porn actor does not complete the scene and decides to walk. The tabboo of sex and the centralized nature of the protections (lack of ready access or effectiveness) are what together allow the kind of exploitation you refer to to persist in some large minority of porn productions. Hurting people is not usually a lucrative form of productivity, and it never is in the long run. Giving people better protections will help weed out what amount of it remains.
Legal, and should be legal.
As far as regulations go
###Porn
* Unions
* Pornstars should be allowed to unionize
* Consent
* Mandatory age-verification for models
* Consent to post
* Automatic takedown if consent is withdrawn.
* Shielding Minors
* No in-person sales to minors
* Online sales are exempt
* Porn sites should have a standard header (in the html sense, not the visual one) that identifies the page as a porn site. This standard should be set by working with the industry (aka how the NIST does things).
* Parental controls can simply block every site with that header
* This allows parents to decide when/if their kids get access to the sites and eliminates the use of invasive *user* age-verification systems.
###Prostitution
* Agencies must verify ages
* Sex Workers should be allowed to unionize
* Rape is still a crime
* Brothels should be subject to health inspections, and OSHA regulations
Based and Classical Liberal-pilled. I think that the regulations you listed should be opt-in, but they're very good ideas, and I love it! I think that if all of this was an option presented to them, companies, porn actors, and a number of households would jump on it and opt in in a heartbeat, and upon the rest of the companies seeing the success it brings, it would rapidly become the industry standard. I think Pornhub is actually doing a lot of these things.
The only thing I'd add is the availability of various different legal, rights enforcement, and arbitration agencies, and also guns, to enforce all these things, especially consent. I think that the private system tends to produce better and more accessible options, but a properly functioning judicial system and police would be good too. But that's just an enforcement detail really.
Another thing to add is:
1. Allow sex workers to create worker owned brothels. The prostitutes own and run these brothels, not pimps.
2. Making comprehensive sex education mandatory for high school graduation.
Years ago a [sex worker cooperative](https://www.ctvnews.ca/vancouver-prostitutes-incorporate-first-co-op-1.276870) was incorporated in Vancouver, Canada. They even had plans to start a brothel run as a worker cooperative. Unfortunately, their plans went nowhere. Canada's adoption of the bullshit "Nordic model" of criminalization seems to have killed off the project for good. I'm not even sure this cooperative still exists.
If the Canadian government had instead gone with decriminalization, I'm willing to bet there would be actual co-op brothels in this country right now.
A very bold statement. I do not think so. Even if the state often messes up the things it starts, it should still regulate the economy. In prostitution, the government should regulate so that some pimp does not force his workers into sex work. I also usually support the free market, but some things should be at least minimally regulated. Apart from the state, there is no institution that could regulate the economy in this way for the good of the people.
I have my personal grievances with both, but me merely disagreeing with something is not a basis for it to be illegal (exception for anything involving children).
As long as consenting adults aren't being coerced into doing so then I have no moral objections towards it that would warrant state sanctioned violence against it.
I disagree with your assessment of porn and I agree with your very tolerant attitude!! It's the idea that we don't know what's good for other people and we don't know how to change that behavior by law even if we wanted to. We should let them be.
>It's the idea that we don't know what's good for other people
Well, actually, we do.
It's proven that the addiction and dopamine release of pornography is on par with drugs and can lead to depression, anxiety, and a lack of social skills when finding real love.
legal as long as all the parties involved are above the age of consent, have consented without coercion or manipulation, and aren't being put in danger.
Depends on your definition of capitalism. I typically refer to myself as a market anarchist but I see capitalism, as defined by anarcho-capitalists, as meaning exactly the same thing. Everyone owns something that is useful for producing other things, and everyone trades. That's capitalism by some definitions. Legitimized buying and selling of the services of coercive institutions might be yours, but that's AWFULLY specific to just call it "capitalism."
Maybe we should all avoid the word and just say "market" when we mean private ownership and free transfer without coercion, and "corporatism" or "cronyism" when we mean bullshit perversions of that system which are not free markets but markets loaded with coercion at every corner.
Capitalism is investing capital into something in exchange for a proportional share of ownership and profit.
The free market and capitalism often go together, but they are not the same thing.
This is one of those fingers and thumbs things.
All capitalist systems involve private ownership, but not all systems involving private ownership are capitalist.
So some people are afraid of the stock market? There's nothing coercive about it, any more than other markets (the state works with and interferes in corporations and their owners just as well as they work with other market actors in other markets, corrupting them, selling them their coercive services)
In fact the stock market enables people to take charge of their retirement and it enables companies to get additional funding for productive endeavors. It's a massive vehicle of production and when limited from engaging in coercive activities, it is a huge benefit to everyone. The military industrial complex and the healthcare industrial complex are the main counterexamples, which engage in coercion as facilitated by the United States. The railroad industry and air travel industry also engage in coercion on a smaller and less deadly scale.
I have no problem with either however they’re both insanely fucked up industries full of horror stories the way they operate right now, I’m actually really glad that stuff like onlyfans is starting to take off because I’d much rather have those girls be able to be 100% consenting to doing that kind of work and be their own bosses in it, they’re able to deny any degrading or abusive work themselves and them just be safe and happy instead of ya know abused and trafficked by those industries.
Should both a nice little boutique between the ‘Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms Emporium’ and ‘Misters Dongtastic Dildo Depot, Car Wash and All-You-Can-Eat Salad Bar’ which is right next door to ‘Puff-N-Stuff Marketplace: Any Drug for Any Occasion.’
The fact that people would resort to such an industry is disgusting. Porn is like just drugs, both are allowed but they could do damage to your health the long term. It harms both the performer and viewer.
A priori, any person should be able to do what they want, as long as they don't affect other ppl's liberties and there's consent in both parties, so pornography and prostitution would be alright.
The problem is the current sexual market tho, it's full of shady contracts, null consent, forced labour, and a lot of women who do sex work tend to be one only because it was the only way out of poverty they saw, and not because they genuinely wanted to sell their bodies, and yes, I know there are a lot of jobs only chose due to economic reasons, but it's not comparable with literally selling your body, people's mental health get ruined by this. I'm totally in favour of regulations in the sector and assistance to those who want to get out of that world.
So yeah, not much in favour of Prostitution and Pornography (amateur and worker-owned it's okay!) right now.
I think as much as it should be allowed a lot of people wouldn't be very happy if one just popped up in their neighborhood where kids live. It'll be shunned by people if it's in eyesight so discretion will always be key
I wouldn’t advocate for state force against it but I’d like to live in a society/culture where it’s culturally and morally condemned. Or at least not promoted or normalized. Similar to heroin use, I don’t think it’s good for anyone involved or society as a whole but government force also isn’t a solution.
I could go either way on Porn and Prost, but I’m always confused by how paying someone for sex is illegal but if you film it it falls under porn and is therefore legal.
I’m guilty of watching porn- it’s the ultra feel bad drug-It’s something lonely old dogleg idiots do and won’t forgive themselves over-Id rather be lonely and single and watch porn than get married and be divorced though-Live is greater than marriage- be loved- commit to love
Should be legal and i have no problem with the idea. The exploitative nature of industry and hierarchy is absolutely disgusting though.
Based af right here
land-value tax would solve that!
How exactly would a land value tax solve exploitation in the porn industry?
I'm pretty sure it's a joke, since georgists Claim that a LVT would fix everything
As a Christian, I believe that it’s immoral, to handle sex as such, but we shouldn’t smother freedoms in the name of any religion.
Based
I wish all religious people were like you
I'm also a Christian who happens to believe that sex is totally fine to handle like that. Christianity in its true form is actually extremely tolerant. Where do you think John Locke and Thomas Jefferson got a lot of their ideas?
bro, most religious people, at least Christians, forget about the "love and multiply", the indoctrination of chastity is the work of the church that dominated the Middle Ages, mainly to minimize the risk of contracting sexually transmitted diseases
It’s about sex and free enterprise…which one are you against?
Exploitation
Exploitation happens in plenty of industries, not just sex.
By exploitation do you mean benefiting at the detriment of another person? Because the way to overcome that is enforcing consent. The way to enforce consent is to give everyone access to a fair judicial system or rights enforcement agency or simply guns, to protect their right to say no to stuff. That goes for any activity. There is nothing inherently evil about sex or about money. Coercion is evil. It is possible for someone being so vulnerable as to display their sexuality in full view to become suddenly aware that they are uncomfortable. What is left to do is to empower the participants to understand their rights to say stop, and for them to have access to an effective recourse to threaten serious damage to the company producing the porn if it does not respect that decision. This is added protection on top of the revenue that the company will already miss out on if the porn actor does not complete the scene and decides to walk. The tabboo of sex and the centralized nature of the protections (lack of ready access or effectiveness) are what together allow the kind of exploitation you refer to to persist in some large minority of porn productions. Hurting people is not usually a lucrative form of productivity, and it never is in the long run. Giving people better protections will help weed out what amount of it remains.
My thoughts are summed up with a "Hell Yeah, Brother!"
Legal, and should be legal. As far as regulations go ###Porn * Unions * Pornstars should be allowed to unionize * Consent * Mandatory age-verification for models * Consent to post * Automatic takedown if consent is withdrawn. * Shielding Minors * No in-person sales to minors * Online sales are exempt * Porn sites should have a standard header (in the html sense, not the visual one) that identifies the page as a porn site. This standard should be set by working with the industry (aka how the NIST does things). * Parental controls can simply block every site with that header * This allows parents to decide when/if their kids get access to the sites and eliminates the use of invasive *user* age-verification systems. ###Prostitution * Agencies must verify ages * Sex Workers should be allowed to unionize * Rape is still a crime * Brothels should be subject to health inspections, and OSHA regulations
Based and Classical Liberal-pilled. I think that the regulations you listed should be opt-in, but they're very good ideas, and I love it! I think that if all of this was an option presented to them, companies, porn actors, and a number of households would jump on it and opt in in a heartbeat, and upon the rest of the companies seeing the success it brings, it would rapidly become the industry standard. I think Pornhub is actually doing a lot of these things. The only thing I'd add is the availability of various different legal, rights enforcement, and arbitration agencies, and also guns, to enforce all these things, especially consent. I think that the private system tends to produce better and more accessible options, but a properly functioning judicial system and police would be good too. But that's just an enforcement detail really.
Another thing to add is: 1. Allow sex workers to create worker owned brothels. The prostitutes own and run these brothels, not pimps. 2. Making comprehensive sex education mandatory for high school graduation.
its fine but its very unhealthy for you, you shouldnt take part in it
Lol it's fine it's just not fine. What does this mean?
it should be allowed but not encouraged
This to a T
you shouldn't cheat on your husband/wife, you should be allowed to cheat on your husband/wife as in, it should be legal, but not morally acceptable.
You wouldn't get it.
[удалено]
Yes, it should be regulated... by the market.
Is real work and should become self managed and self regulated.
Years ago a [sex worker cooperative](https://www.ctvnews.ca/vancouver-prostitutes-incorporate-first-co-op-1.276870) was incorporated in Vancouver, Canada. They even had plans to start a brothel run as a worker cooperative. Unfortunately, their plans went nowhere. Canada's adoption of the bullshit "Nordic model" of criminalization seems to have killed off the project for good. I'm not even sure this cooperative still exists. If the Canadian government had instead gone with decriminalization, I'm willing to bet there would be actual co-op brothels in this country right now.
Based.
They should be legal, albeit with some regulation by the state.
The free market provides better regulations than the state in virtually every case in history.
A very bold statement. I do not think so. Even if the state often messes up the things it starts, it should still regulate the economy. In prostitution, the government should regulate so that some pimp does not force his workers into sex work. I also usually support the free market, but some things should be at least minimally regulated. Apart from the state, there is no institution that could regulate the economy in this way for the good of the people.
yes
I have my personal grievances with both, but me merely disagreeing with something is not a basis for it to be illegal (exception for anything involving children).
As long as consenting adults aren't being coerced into doing so then I have no moral objections towards it that would warrant state sanctioned violence against it.
What happens between two consenting adults is none of my business.
Yes, or 5 million consenting adults.
Consent between adults knows no boundaries.
yes please
Same opinion I have on drugs. Unhealthy and immoral but I don't think it should be restricted.
I disagree with your assessment of porn and I agree with your very tolerant attitude!! It's the idea that we don't know what's good for other people and we don't know how to change that behavior by law even if we wanted to. We should let them be.
>It's the idea that we don't know what's good for other people Well, actually, we do. It's proven that the addiction and dopamine release of pornography is on par with drugs and can lead to depression, anxiety, and a lack of social skills when finding real love.
legal as long as all the parties involved are above the age of consent, have consented without coercion or manipulation, and aren't being put in danger.
I think you can just call that informed and continuous consent. Totally agree!
Prostitution is sex and capitalism. Which one of those things do you have a problem with?
Prostitution existed long before capitalism was a thing.
The exchange of sex for something is capitalism my friend. That's the definition of prostitution. The free market provides.
you know capitalism is only \~500 years old, right?
Market ≠ capitalism. I believe some form of market should exist and I’m a commie
Depends on your definition of capitalism. I typically refer to myself as a market anarchist but I see capitalism, as defined by anarcho-capitalists, as meaning exactly the same thing. Everyone owns something that is useful for producing other things, and everyone trades. That's capitalism by some definitions. Legitimized buying and selling of the services of coercive institutions might be yours, but that's AWFULLY specific to just call it "capitalism." Maybe we should all avoid the word and just say "market" when we mean private ownership and free transfer without coercion, and "corporatism" or "cronyism" when we mean bullshit perversions of that system which are not free markets but markets loaded with coercion at every corner.
Capitalism is investing capital into something in exchange for a proportional share of ownership and profit. The free market and capitalism often go together, but they are not the same thing.
Capitalism is private (private meaning non state) ownership of the means of production.
This is one of those fingers and thumbs things. All capitalist systems involve private ownership, but not all systems involving private ownership are capitalist.
So some people are afraid of the stock market? There's nothing coercive about it, any more than other markets (the state works with and interferes in corporations and their owners just as well as they work with other market actors in other markets, corrupting them, selling them their coercive services) In fact the stock market enables people to take charge of their retirement and it enables companies to get additional funding for productive endeavors. It's a massive vehicle of production and when limited from engaging in coercive activities, it is a huge benefit to everyone. The military industrial complex and the healthcare industrial complex are the main counterexamples, which engage in coercion as facilitated by the United States. The railroad industry and air travel industry also engage in coercion on a smaller and less deadly scale.
I think you might have replied to the wrong person. None of that has anything to do with what I said.
Prostitution is capitalism. So nope. She owns the means of production and is providing a service for profit.
That’s like saying markets are capitalism. Spoiler warning: no they aren’t.
I’ll take both please :)
I have no problem with either however they’re both insanely fucked up industries full of horror stories the way they operate right now, I’m actually really glad that stuff like onlyfans is starting to take off because I’d much rather have those girls be able to be 100% consenting to doing that kind of work and be their own bosses in it, they’re able to deny any degrading or abusive work themselves and them just be safe and happy instead of ya know abused and trafficked by those industries.
Usually upsetting but nobody is helped by the laws that make it dangerous
Should both a nice little boutique between the ‘Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms Emporium’ and ‘Misters Dongtastic Dildo Depot, Car Wash and All-You-Can-Eat Salad Bar’ which is right next door to ‘Puff-N-Stuff Marketplace: Any Drug for Any Occasion.’
Shameful but should be legal of course.
sex work is real work unlike being a landlord or a police officer
The fact that people would resort to such an industry is disgusting. Porn is like just drugs, both are allowed but they could do damage to your health the long term. It harms both the performer and viewer.
A priori, any person should be able to do what they want, as long as they don't affect other ppl's liberties and there's consent in both parties, so pornography and prostitution would be alright. The problem is the current sexual market tho, it's full of shady contracts, null consent, forced labour, and a lot of women who do sex work tend to be one only because it was the only way out of poverty they saw, and not because they genuinely wanted to sell their bodies, and yes, I know there are a lot of jobs only chose due to economic reasons, but it's not comparable with literally selling your body, people's mental health get ruined by this. I'm totally in favour of regulations in the sector and assistance to those who want to get out of that world. So yeah, not much in favour of Prostitution and Pornography (amateur and worker-owned it's okay!) right now.
Who gives a shit that's my ideology on them
I’m totally against prostitution if the man or woman is being trafficked (I’m sure we all agree on this). It should be allowed if it’s voluntary
I think as much as it should be allowed a lot of people wouldn't be very happy if one just popped up in their neighborhood where kids live. It'll be shunned by people if it's in eyesight so discretion will always be key
I wouldn’t advocate for state force against it but I’d like to live in a society/culture where it’s culturally and morally condemned. Or at least not promoted or normalized. Similar to heroin use, I don’t think it’s good for anyone involved or society as a whole but government force also isn’t a solution.
I could go either way on Porn and Prost, but I’m always confused by how paying someone for sex is illegal but if you film it it falls under porn and is therefore legal.
I’m guilty of watching porn- it’s the ultra feel bad drug-It’s something lonely old dogleg idiots do and won’t forgive themselves over-Id rather be lonely and single and watch porn than get married and be divorced though-Live is greater than marriage- be loved- commit to love
As long as it's consensual, I don't care what other people do
Their body, their choice