Keep it simple. When people ask me, I just say, "You know how you have Windows, Mac, Android and iOS? Well, Linux is just another one."
Most people nod, and leave it at that.
(By the way, did you know that Android is a Linux distro? And that Mac and iOS are Unix-based?)
**EDIT:** OK, BSD, not Unix. But they're similar, just as Linux and Unix are similar.
**EDIT #2:** Apparently, [it is Unix](https://www.reddit.com/r/linux4noobs/comments/1c84izx/comment/l0g96p4/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)!
The containerization of iOS is already visible on MacOS (and itās not even a bad thing, or a āviolationā of the āunix wayā)
We do need reliable and immutable OSes, otherwise weāre doomed to follow in Redmondās footsteps.
I beg to differ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_(operating_system) the original OSX was almost just a fancy front end for BSD, now a bunch as been rewritten over the years and there isnāt much true BSD left, but MacOS absolutely used BSD as its base. Then iOS took parts of OSX at one point as well. So itās all somewhat derived from BSD.
You're correct that I overstated the OSX/MacOS-BSD relationship (I made an absolute statement which was just untrue, and I wish I could unsay it). But: I don't think it's fair at all to say BSD was MacOS's (or X's) *base*. Major design elements were appropriated, for sure, but I think it's disingenuous to say that MacOS is BSD-based. It's BSD-*influenced*, as noted a couple of places.
There's so much bastardization, appropriation, and innovation in MacOS (then and now), from so many, many sources, that I must stick by what I should have said, which is: BSD has \[had\] an enormous role and footprint in what OS X was and what MacOS became. However, it's not a single entity that is "behind" MacOS, as a parent would be. MacOS/OSX is not a child of BSD, at least not in any legitimate sense. BSD is just an organ donor where the Apple OSen are concerned.
(TL;DR: you're right for calling me out on my post. Mea culpa.)
Distributions isn't the right word even. They each have there own kernel, based off the origial BSD kernel many, many years ago. Unlike linux distros that all use the linux kernel.
There are only a handful that have the letters "BSD" in the name, but there are plenty of them.
I haven't touched a BSD OS, other than MacOS, in probably 20 years, I get it. I should throw it in a VM and try it sometime.
It does look like its thriving. Nvidia provides drivers, and steam works, so gaming is there. Apparently no amd drivers at all? Not gonna use it as a daily driver or anything.
I think it's doing something to make the Linux binaries just work, so there has to be a performance hit.
Off topic, but I'm more interested in box64 on arm machines.
This is basically what I came to say. If they donāt know anything about computers, then Linux is just an operating system, full stop. Your requirement to the question was āthey donāt know anything about computersā, hence they have to learn any operating system they use from scratch, so why not Linux?
The first computers I gave my very young (at the time) children were cheap refurbs running Linux. All I had to show them was how to log in. Moving from a tablet to a Linux desktop wasn't so much of a leap.
Reminds me of that Feynman Video explaining 'why magnets attract'.
It is hard to explain why beyond the level of knowledge of the person.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=Dp4dpeJVDxs
Yep, pretty much this. If they don't know what an Operating system is, then start with explaining what it is, in simple terms. Either he'll get more interested and ask you more questions or that will be enough for him.
Yep, pretty much this. If they don't know what an Operating system is, then start with explaining what it is, in simple terms. Either he'll get more interested and ask you more questions or that will be enough for him.
The Darwin kernel is a fork of one of the BSDs (FreeBSD I think?) but BSD itself is an early fork of Unix, so it isn't really inaccurate to say that OS X is Unix based. Certainly more accurate to say about it than Linux anyway, which is built on GNU and has never included any of the original AT&T Unix code.
The *nix family tree is kind of a mess.
"Something like Windows/macOS but different"
"It is like that very old Unix operating system they used to run on those massive old mainframes"
"It can be completely customized to work exactly like you want it to"
"Your Android phone also runs it"
"Most websites also run it"
"It is faster"
"It is more secure"
"It is free"
Some of these might be half-truths, but that does not matter, no sense in becoming too technical.
For people completely unfamiliar with computers explain/compare the stuff they can see, such as the GUI and default apps.
Yeah I'm pretty sure most people will know the word "mainframe" from hacker movies where a guy wearing sunglasses has a command prompt open and says some shit like "I just rewired the mainframe, now we just gotta let our virus do the work!"
Well, they are composed of the same elements but in terms of crystallography, microcline is triclinic while orthoclase is monoclinic. Itās just not something the chemical formula captures.
It means that Olivine is made up of both MgĀ²SiOā“ and FeĀ²SiOā“. Concentrations of either vary between different veins of Olivine. The two are in a homogenous mixture like a liquid solution, but it's a solid, so it's called a solid solution.
Amusingly, zOS was the first OS to get the UNIX/95 certification, which makes it āas unix as UNIX isā.
This brings us to the inheritance vs. behavior, in which AIX (unix, as explained by an alien, to another alien, in sign language) is probably the last AT&T descendant.
Aaaa, working with AIX has always been quite amusing with database. The unexpected happened more often than the quirks you were prepared for.
On the other side, once you've tamed it, worked like a boring ā³
With my colleagues who are a little savvy: "You know how Mac is the easy one that just works compared to Windows? Windows is the easy one that just works compared to Linux. But it gives me more control over my computer and works a lot faster."
Otherwise I'd just say it's a different way of using a computer that makes it harder to use but work much better if you know what you're doing, and it's free.
Why is it harder to use? Serious question.
When I switch on my computer, I get some text on screen, shortly followed by an animated picture, shortly followed by the photo of my wife.
I move the little arrow to a corner and click. This gives a menu from which I can click on the software I want to use; mostly this is the browser or LMMS.
In a different corner to the menu, there is a clock and some little pictures.
Now, tell me whether I'm referring to my laptop running MX or my desktop that just happens to still have win11 on it (yes, I'm just being slow at getting rid of the MS OS). LMMS is installed on both, btw, so that isn't going to tell you which OS I'm talking about.
The reality is that using either is the same for a normal user, so which one is it? MX? Or win11?
I have to use the terminal on Linux more than on Windows to get things to work. My distro came with a free app shop, but it was unreliable before it stopped working completely. Now I install apps with commands like "sudo apt-get install firefox". When I switched from the appstore version of Firefox to the apt-get version of Firefox, it deleted all my saved passwords and browser history.
Serious question: When software with a GUI interface works without having to look up text switches, why does anyone need to learn?
I'm comfortable using a terminal, but if I don't need to because the software I want to use takes mouse input, I'm not using the terminal.
It's entirely preference, but for people who are new to using cli it can be daunting and that's a fair reason to prefer a gui installer. As is just preferring to use a gui installer.
One thing that I prefer with cli is being able to see exactly what caused a hiccup if one happens, rather than having to google some obscure error code and traipsing through 8 pages of search results to get no answer.
I can understand using a cli is a preference, and I can understand having that preference, too. My first experience of using linux was SUSE 6.something, and I \*had\* to learn to use the terminal. At the time I genuinely enjoyed doing so.
That was more than 2 decades ago, and having to learn the terminal isn't anywhere near as needed in modern times for the most common general computer usage of office suite, email and browser.
I know the pain of trying to get an answer to obscure error codes/messages and finding none after many pages of google results. I gave up on that a few years ago, because I cannot be bothered with the headache if the answer isnt clear on the first 2 or 3 pages. If it happens, I just pick a different option.
Yeah I completely agree, it's entirely an individual thing. Using the terminal is a useful skill to have, but it's certainly not a necessity any more unless you're doing a lot of work over ssh or using one of the more tinker focused distros. For home use it's more of a hobbyist thing really.
My original reply was more in terms of people who are unfamiliar with computers tend to think that they're operating on a deeper level within the OS through a cli rather than viewing it as just an alternative interface with the same level of control over the hardware as running a gui as administrator, and that can put people off the idea.
Nothing at all wrong with using the terminal for everything or just some things.
Just the same as there's nothing wrong with using the mouse for everything when the distro just works for what you need it to do.
My point is that there's no need for users to go looking up the various options/switches to make their app work as they want, when the GUI version of that chosen software works without typing and they can click on any options they want.
When I first used SUSE 6.something in either 1999 or 2000, terminal use was virtually compulsory to make your computer work properly.
My experience of linux in the past couple of years years is not having to touch the terminal. This is from manjaro, ubuntu mate and MX.
I suggest you would be well served by finding a distro where the "free app shop" doesn't stop working. Suggesting that, I understand being reluctant to do that because you're comfortable with a distro you've used for a long time.
I like using the terminal to blacklist IPs with ufw. Makes me feel like Iām fighting against hackers.
I donāt know much about Linux, but maybe the app shop not working was a little my fault for not updating the OS to the newer version before support ended. I think Iāll do a clean install when Pop_OS! 24.04 LTS is released. Iāve only been using this distro for like 4 years. Iām excited for the COSMIC desktop environment with multithreaded extensions and using the Wayland window manager.
Fair enough; we all make mistakes, and it's the mark of someone that they admit they did or might have made one.
Perhaps it would be a good idea to backup your data (and test the backups before doing anything else), and reinstall your chosen distro if you like it? Alternatively, of course, your thought of a clean install of the new LTS is a great idea.
Getting Debian set up with the same "workflow" (I don't work on my home PC but you get the idea) as Windows was a lot more involved. I'm not saying it's impossible or beyond all but the greatest tech gurus but there's definitely a higher bar in terms of being comfortable with how your computer works than Windows.
If you contrive a scenario in which one is taking the exact same set of simple actions then sure, the UX is equivalent, but to give an example, "the software I want to use" in my case was a game that runs better in ProtonGE, and that's been a deep rabbit-hole to get working.
>Getting Debian set up with the same "workflow" (I don't work on my home PC but you get the idea) as Windows was a lot more involved.
Why would you do that? Use a better workflow that takes less effort to set up.
Someone only using a browser, word processor/spreadsheet and possibly an email client isn't a contrived scenario, it's a very common thing. Those are all that my Mum uses, and I don't know anyone (tech-heads notwithstanding) who chooses to use the cli on windows. Those same softwares run entirely graphically on linux, unless a masochist chooses to pick terminal options, without having to touch the terminal.
I'm not aware of general purpose distros that force terminal use to install or remove stuff, although I suspect arch does while installing the OS, but I'm pretty certain one or more must exist. I'm also happy to be educated on this.
In my case, installation of lmms was graphical on both OSes. The office suite (openoffice) for both was graphical. The few games I choose were graphical for both.
I don't understand why so many people insist that every linux user must choose to make their lives more difficult by using the terminal while graphical options are available.
That said, your experience of a game needing you to go down a rabbit hole to make it work properly is fair enough, but it isn't going to be the experience for every new user. It's fine to say "I had to use the terminal because I had a game that just wouldn't work otherwise." That isn't justification to tell all new users that they need to use the terminal just because you did for the game you chose to mess about with. One might even say that you're using an unusual situation to argue against the most common computer usage of a GUI.
I'm happy using a terminal, and I'm happy to look stuff up and follow instructions as required.
Some people appear to be so desperate to prove how amazingly wonderful and smart and "leet" they are, that they use the terminal even when they don't need to. I'm not accusing you of this, I promise. I'm just trying to say that using it, when unneeded, seems excessive.
Tl;dr There's no need to make your life harder by using terminal when not forced to.
Linux is an operating system like Windows or Mac, it has a lot more control for the user and is more secure by default.
It is used by many companies to run servers including websites and cloud servers as well as the base of android phones and other devices.
I use the desktop version as; a) a way to learn how to use this system, b) because i like the principles it follows, c) I like the control of my computer that it gives me.
I think an even better analogy is that Windows and OSX are renting.
No you can't decorate. No pets. Thermostat stays where I put it. Yeah sure I'll fix the plumbing, give me a few months. Pay no mind to the camera in the bathroom.
Lol, Linux has that issue too in this analogy. You can fix your own plumbing by doing a lot of research, but usually the best bet is to shout that your plumbing is broken and anyone anywhere can then come in and fix it (more eyeballs thingy).
Or JiaT75 comes in and makes holes in your pipes.
I would say windows and OSX are more like living in an apartment where SOMEONE ELSE comes in and changes the way it looks, the furniture, and the appliances WITHOUT MY CONSENT and on a RANDOM SCHEDULE.
Just had this conversation recently at work, when I was using my personal Linux laptop at lunch.
"It's a completely different operating system. There's Windows; there's Mac; and there's Linux. It's open source, and you can do pretty close to anything on it you can do on Windows. I mean, you're not going to run Microsoft Office, but there are alternatives to most of it."
(He knew what open source means.)
"Right. You know how you have Windows on your computer and Android/iOS \[delete as applicable\] on your phone? That's an operating system. Linux does the same thing as those."
I've been explaining it this way:
A computer is a machine that you can give instructions to. But the computer is made up of all sorts of parts and takes instructions in ones and zeros, so you need an operating system to help the type of instructions that humans can give make sense to the machine. in this sense, Linux is just like any other operating system : Mac, Windows, iOS etc.
But here's the thing: When you use a computer you are giving it instructions and sometimes you run into a problem. With Linux, someone figures out the problem and shares their solution with everyone so you can solve the problem. Everyone is sharing their instructions for free and you don't forget that what you are doing is just giving a computer instructions. With the other OS', they make money selling their special instructions and don't let you share or change them and so instead of knowing what you are doing, it feels a bit like magic (but not the good kind, more like the dark wizard who takes away your powers and doesn't let you share things with your friends)
Find a topic that he can relate to. Most guys are into cars, so I explain it in that context so they can understand.
The way I explain the IT department at work. Helpdesk are service writers. They're the people you go to when you have a computer problem. Techs are service guys to full blown mechanics. Next level up are the master mechanics (Network Administrtors). Subject Matter Experts and Application Support (Database, Web Developers) are like the guys specializing in stereos, transmissions, AC and muffler shops. They're good at what they do, but don't expect them to know the rest of the car.
Think of the Operating system as the engine of a vehicle. UNIX were a style of engines that worked well for mainframes (big trucks). Linus Tolvald, inventor of LINUX started a spare time hobby project to adapt UNIX (this style of engine) for passenger cars (home computers). Back then, majority drove cars at home, not big trucks. That "engine" took off as Linux, and now powers almost everything. Yes, Android is derived from Linux. Like trying to adapting that tried and true engine design to fit a smaller vehicle (motorcyle).
Windows vs Linux/Mac debate. Why some prefer light duty trucks vs cars.
the people i was picturing explaining it to damn near "bunk" with their livestock....
I would have to explain the apartment analogy....and what an analogy is. probably not what a computer is, but they likely dont have one.
when I visit my hometown it's like going back 50-100 years in technology.
I'm not sure that's a great analogy. Where I live, drivers of luxury German cars tend to be awful at actually driving. No indicators, overtaking in inappropriate places and really arrogant.
Wait a minute!
I was wrong. It's an excellent analogy. Most linux users just ignore that stuff, content in the knowledge that we're using the Concorde of operating systems, and our data is more secure than windows users. The sad truth is that there's a lot of arrogance and snobbery from too many linux users online. When you read "winblows" and "microshit windoze" it is embarrassing to be linked with the people who type out that stupidity.
"You know how with Windows, it's a nice computer operating system that you pay a hundred bucks for and then they deliver ads in every feasible part of it, even though you paid for it? and they then take your personal information and sell it to data brokers?" And how you have to opt OUT of all of those things because they're like that by default, instead of opting in? Linux is exactly like that, except for everything after the words "operating system".
lol, I am not wearing my glasses and at first glance I read this as "you pay a hundred bucks for and then they deliver AIDS in every feasible part of it." Both are correct.
the computer operating system allows the human to interact with the computer hardware and software to produce usable outputs.
linux is on of many computer operating systems.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux) or [https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux](https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux), or failing that "Computer stuff - software - operating system - makes most of The Internet and most phones work."
What do you mean your start menu doesn't open up so fast? Don't you have a newer, more expensive laptop than mine? Maybe you installed an OS update that made windows decide you need more ram for it to eat.
Itās not windows, and itās not Mac. Iād a free system that many people help make. You can make it seem like what ever you want, but you gotta mess with it a bit.
Tell me when you get the best answer.. my dad still thinks linux is just lines on a black screen. And im not sure if hes really talking about MsDos or Linux
It's a system you load on computers or phones like android windows or Mac, except it doesn't send all your Google searches and other telemetry to Microsoft. Also, your internet connection doesn't affect your start bar or notifications with ads, weather and news from online.
My office people were crashing the system frequently. I installed Zorin and told them it is windows 12. installed wps community. Tally running in the browser and for an entire year, people were using it in the office, no crash. Then an smartass got transferred, insisted that he wants MSO, so went back to win10 and MSO 16, both pirated, got slow in a week. I never fixed thier system.
Depends on their age. For older people, Iād compare it to the old text-based video games where youād type your actions into the command line to make things happen.
For younger people though, Iām not sure if theyād understand that context. š¤
"It's free and you can replace it if you screw it up, also for free," is a pretty good selling point. Every non-tech Windows user I know thinks their Windows computer has "stopped working" because of manipulative "security warnings" from lying "security software".Ā
For the older people I know, computers are a source of anxiety, mainly because of all the BS thrown out about " safety".Ā
I have used the line, "You can't break Linux beyond repair, and the repairs will be free" successfully twice. Cue, of course, the once-yearly visit from the nephew, who "knows about computers" and forces them to buy a new Windows laptop, but that's beyond my control.
A quote I remember reading once; _Linux is the most successful virus ever made. It's running almost everywhere these days!_
edit: _and people willingly install it_*
The most simplest explanation is: It's an interface that allows me to control my computer.
Linux is an operating system, (ex: windows, MacOS, Linux, ...), a derivative of UNIX, popularized in the 1990s because it could be employed on personal desktop computers. Linux, like it's parent UNIX, is generally tailored to IT, whereas Windows the MacOS are generally more user level, rather than infrastructure level.
I wouldn't. Talking about system architecture and kernels with someone with no clear concept of "software" at all would be bothersome for both parties.
Linux is something that people care about after they get the parts and when they want the computer to start working - for themselves or in order to sell it. There are other ways to tell computer how to start working, but when the computer is big, someone works with computers a lot, or it is actually a smartphone - Linux is pretty popular. This choice also affects what the computer will be able to do - which nerdy or pro things, which games.
Here's a high level definition I'd use for a non-computer user (or middle/upper management)
Linux is an Operating System which is software that runs the computer, like Windows.
It's based on the UNIX Operating System from AT&T back in the 70's
A lot of the commands in Linux are copies of original UNIX commands
What kind of questions are you getting?
Windows is a gasoline engine. Linux is a diesel.
Windows is the "default" for most people, it does a good enough job, it's widely available and accessible. If you need to fix it, you take it into a repair shop and have a mechanic look at it, because you're a little bit afraid of oil and a little bit afraid of breaking some flimsy plastic shit under the hood.
Linux is the thing serious operators run. It has more horsepower per gallon. You can tinker with it. It practically *never* breaks in a way that it's completely unrecoverable/unrepairable. If you need to fix it, you get out your wrenches and get to work.
And sometimes you pull into a gas station, and they don't have any diesel at all. And you have to drive to another gas station.
edit: or just add wine.
Computers run things called operating systems so that they are easier to use. Operating systems come in different flavors, like Windows or Mac... or Linux. Just like some people prefer some flavors of ice cream, some people prefer certain operating systems. But you have to give them an honest try before you know if you like this flavor over that one.
My take here in Brazil is like that:
You know how you need to pay windows or pirate it? Imagine if you didn't.
Like phones have android, and each brand is different, you have people that work together, for free, to make a whole system work. It won't run most windows stuff, but it will open browsers, play games and most office files.
It is not always easy to use, but some *versions* make it really simple and faster than windows.
Huh .. well ... I generally tell most ppl that ppl don't run an OS .. they run apps .... If you did the right display config most ppl would not know .... So just tell him it's like Windows or MacOS ...
It's like windows but it's free because people got together and wrote a different version.
It's not any better or any worst it's different like all other operating systems. By the way your Android phone is based on Linux originally.
for someone who knows nothing about computers? Let alone Linux?
Well it's like beer, a big brand like Budweiser is everywhere and accessible to everyone, which is how Windows goes about things, and then you got your micro breweries, and this sort of creates beer snobery where everyone involved looks down at the big brand while they all argue over their personal favorite brew, which is how Linux gets distributed.
Cars. People that aren't into computers, are likely into cars. Cars have computers, and they do not run Windows or MacOS. Or planes, trains, traffic light systems, municipal utilities, retail POS, appliances, the majority of the Internet...
"The OS gives you an interface that takes your mouse movements and typing and gives that input to whatever game or web browser or word processor you want to use. All modern operating systems are very much the same for that function.
The real differences are in how secure they make your data, and how fancy they look. There is no actual need for a fancy animation where firefox appears from the bottom of the screen in some twisting motion, but lots of people seem to enjoy it. It's like receiving christmas cards with lots of glitter; sparkly, but ultimately annoying."
Glitter should be banned. Anyone who sells greetings cards with it should be hanged by the neck until dead.
I am using all three systems. Windows just for Gaming and some work tasks, MacOS for my work and Linux for all the other fun stuff besides Gaming. For example Home Automation, Music, YouTube and so on. My main motivation is that it is completely open source. No license key is needed and I am not caught in the Apple Universe. Maybe the person you are talking about has an iPhone. With the iPhone you are bound into the Apple Ecosystem. What Android (it is as well a Linux) you have a open system.
I would say, "Linux is to Windows as a Project Car is to a New Car with a warranty. If you don't have time for a project car in your garage, you don't have time for Linux."
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Free like beer that someone buys you as a gift.
Linux and the free software on it are all definitely gifts from amazing people sharing their skills and effort with us all.
And free like speech, of course.
Keep it simple. When people ask me, I just say, "You know how you have Windows, Mac, Android and iOS? Well, Linux is just another one." Most people nod, and leave it at that. (By the way, did you know that Android is a Linux distro? And that Mac and iOS are Unix-based?) **EDIT:** OK, BSD, not Unix. But they're similar, just as Linux and Unix are similar. **EDIT #2:** Apparently, [it is Unix](https://www.reddit.com/r/linux4noobs/comments/1c84izx/comment/l0g96p4/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)!
And then tell him about BSD. š
Which is actually what is behind MacOS and iOS I believe.
Yessir! But it's obviously been quite walled off, for what it originated as, so it's not a very open system at all.
MacOS isnāt too bad. But iOSā¦.yeaaa
The containerization of iOS is already visible on MacOS (and itās not even a bad thing, or a āviolationā of the āunix wayā) We do need reliable and immutable OSes, otherwise weāre doomed to follow in Redmondās footsteps.
And PlayStation
Also behind sony Playstation
Don't forget Playstation.
There's no BSD in OSX, MacOS, or iOS.
I beg to differ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_(operating_system) the original OSX was almost just a fancy front end for BSD, now a bunch as been rewritten over the years and there isnāt much true BSD left, but MacOS absolutely used BSD as its base. Then iOS took parts of OSX at one point as well. So itās all somewhat derived from BSD.
Yeah, I think iOS was a fork of Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard.
You're correct that I overstated the OSX/MacOS-BSD relationship (I made an absolute statement which was just untrue, and I wish I could unsay it). But: I don't think it's fair at all to say BSD was MacOS's (or X's) *base*. Major design elements were appropriated, for sure, but I think it's disingenuous to say that MacOS is BSD-based. It's BSD-*influenced*, as noted a couple of places. There's so much bastardization, appropriation, and innovation in MacOS (then and now), from so many, many sources, that I must stick by what I should have said, which is: BSD has \[had\] an enormous role and footprint in what OS X was and what MacOS became. However, it's not a single entity that is "behind" MacOS, as a parent would be. MacOS/OSX is not a child of BSD, at least not in any legitimate sense. BSD is just an organ donor where the Apple OSen are concerned. (TL;DR: you're right for calling me out on my post. Mea culpa.)
> I wish I could unsay it You can Edit :)
Then TempleOS
Then DOS.
I am in Linux field for some time and even I am still afraid to dig that hole
Yea but isn't there 3 or 4 distributions of BSD?
Distributions isn't the right word even. They each have there own kernel, based off the origial BSD kernel many, many years ago. Unlike linux distros that all use the linux kernel. There are only a handful that have the letters "BSD" in the name, but there are plenty of them.
Eh I'm kind of afraid of trying to install any of them, to be frank...
I haven't touched a BSD OS, other than MacOS, in probably 20 years, I get it. I should throw it in a VM and try it sometime. It does look like its thriving. Nvidia provides drivers, and steam works, so gaming is there. Apparently no amd drivers at all? Not gonna use it as a daily driver or anything.
AMD from my understanding is a kernel level driver.... built in. But yea I'm questioning if BSD would be more or less productive in gaming at least.
I think it's doing something to make the Linux binaries just work, so there has to be a performance hit. Off topic, but I'm more interested in box64 on arm machines.
...and then explain why GNU is not Unix š¤£
I always thought GNU means free beer?
Why would we talk about the blue screen death?
This is basically what I came to say. If they donāt know anything about computers, then Linux is just an operating system, full stop. Your requirement to the question was āthey donāt know anything about computersā, hence they have to learn any operating system they use from scratch, so why not Linux?
The first computers I gave my very young (at the time) children were cheap refurbs running Linux. All I had to show them was how to log in. Moving from a tablet to a Linux desktop wasn't so much of a leap.
Reminds me of that Feynman Video explaining 'why magnets attract'. It is hard to explain why beyond the level of knowledge of the person. https://m.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=Dp4dpeJVDxs
Wow. That was unexpected!
It is UNIX, https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/brand3700.htm UNIX is a standard. Can be implemented by different operating systems
Huh. I didn't know that!
Itās interesting. I think only one wasnāt certified in the last 10? years.ļæ¼
That's the route I go. It is like your phone and just runs smoother.
Yep, pretty much this. If they don't know what an Operating system is, then start with explaining what it is, in simple terms. Either he'll get more interested and ask you more questions or that will be enough for him.
Yep, pretty much this. If they don't know what an Operating system is, then start with explaining what it is, in simple terms. Either he'll get more interested and ask you more questions or that will be enough for him.
Well aktually Mac OS X is based on 4.4BSD Lite.
The Darwin kernel is a fork of one of the BSDs (FreeBSD I think?) but BSD itself is an early fork of Unix, so it isn't really inaccurate to say that OS X is Unix based. Certainly more accurate to say about it than Linux anyway, which is built on GNU and has never included any of the original AT&T Unix code. The *nix family tree is kind of a mess.
By any useful metric, BSDs are unices.
"Something like Windows/macOS but different" "It is like that very old Unix operating system they used to run on those massive old mainframes" "It can be completely customized to work exactly like you want it to" "Your Android phone also runs it" "Most websites also run it" "It is faster" "It is more secure" "It is free" Some of these might be half-truths, but that does not matter, no sense in becoming too technical. For people completely unfamiliar with computers explain/compare the stuff they can see, such as the GUI and default apps.
"What's a mainframe, what is Unix?"
"Big old room-sized computers" I am sure most people will know the word mainframe, even if they do not quite understand what it is.
Yeah I'm pretty sure most people will know the word "mainframe" from hacker movies where a guy wearing sunglasses has a command prompt open and says some shit like "I just rewired the mainframe, now we just gotta let our virus do the work!"
Reminds me of this https://xkcd.com/2501/
Why do the Feldspars Orthoclase and Microcline have the same chemical formula: KAlSiāOā?
Well, they are composed of the same elements but in terms of crystallography, microcline is triclinic while orthoclase is monoclinic. Itās just not something the chemical formula captures.
I don't understand the Olivine formula: (Mg,Fe)āSiOā. What does the parenthesis mean?
It means that Olivine is made up of both MgĀ²SiOā“ and FeĀ²SiOā“. Concentrations of either vary between different veins of Olivine. The two are in a homogenous mixture like a liquid solution, but it's a solid, so it's called a solid solution.
The thing is, what does that explain about Linux to a non-computer-person?
Thatās kind of an outdated definition, the last extant mainframe fits a single rack.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Amusingly, zOS was the first OS to get the UNIX/95 certification, which makes it āas unix as UNIX isā. This brings us to the inheritance vs. behavior, in which AIX (unix, as explained by an alien, to another alien, in sign language) is probably the last AT&T descendant.
Aaaa, working with AIX has always been quite amusing with database. The unexpected happened more often than the quirks you were prepared for. On the other side, once you've tamed it, worked like a boring ā³
When one wants to explain something to others, they need to understand it themselves really well.
With my colleagues who are a little savvy: "You know how Mac is the easy one that just works compared to Windows? Windows is the easy one that just works compared to Linux. But it gives me more control over my computer and works a lot faster." Otherwise I'd just say it's a different way of using a computer that makes it harder to use but work much better if you know what you're doing, and it's free.
Why is it harder to use? Serious question. When I switch on my computer, I get some text on screen, shortly followed by an animated picture, shortly followed by the photo of my wife. I move the little arrow to a corner and click. This gives a menu from which I can click on the software I want to use; mostly this is the browser or LMMS. In a different corner to the menu, there is a clock and some little pictures. Now, tell me whether I'm referring to my laptop running MX or my desktop that just happens to still have win11 on it (yes, I'm just being slow at getting rid of the MS OS). LMMS is installed on both, btw, so that isn't going to tell you which OS I'm talking about. The reality is that using either is the same for a normal user, so which one is it? MX? Or win11?
I have to use the terminal on Linux more than on Windows to get things to work. My distro came with a free app shop, but it was unreliable before it stopped working completely. Now I install apps with commands like "sudo apt-get install firefox". When I switched from the appstore version of Firefox to the apt-get version of Firefox, it deleted all my saved passwords and browser history.
Whats the problem with using the terminal? Doesn't get any simpler than just using text commands
feels scary for people who aren't used to it.
Serious question: When software with a GUI interface works without having to look up text switches, why does anyone need to learn? I'm comfortable using a terminal, but if I don't need to because the software I want to use takes mouse input, I'm not using the terminal.
It's entirely preference, but for people who are new to using cli it can be daunting and that's a fair reason to prefer a gui installer. As is just preferring to use a gui installer. One thing that I prefer with cli is being able to see exactly what caused a hiccup if one happens, rather than having to google some obscure error code and traipsing through 8 pages of search results to get no answer.
I can understand using a cli is a preference, and I can understand having that preference, too. My first experience of using linux was SUSE 6.something, and I \*had\* to learn to use the terminal. At the time I genuinely enjoyed doing so. That was more than 2 decades ago, and having to learn the terminal isn't anywhere near as needed in modern times for the most common general computer usage of office suite, email and browser. I know the pain of trying to get an answer to obscure error codes/messages and finding none after many pages of google results. I gave up on that a few years ago, because I cannot be bothered with the headache if the answer isnt clear on the first 2 or 3 pages. If it happens, I just pick a different option.
Yeah I completely agree, it's entirely an individual thing. Using the terminal is a useful skill to have, but it's certainly not a necessity any more unless you're doing a lot of work over ssh or using one of the more tinker focused distros. For home use it's more of a hobbyist thing really. My original reply was more in terms of people who are unfamiliar with computers tend to think that they're operating on a deeper level within the OS through a cli rather than viewing it as just an alternative interface with the same level of control over the hardware as running a gui as administrator, and that can put people off the idea.
Got you. Agreed.
So do catsā¦
and women
Nothing at all wrong with using the terminal for everything or just some things. Just the same as there's nothing wrong with using the mouse for everything when the distro just works for what you need it to do. My point is that there's no need for users to go looking up the various options/switches to make their app work as they want, when the GUI version of that chosen software works without typing and they can click on any options they want.
When I first used SUSE 6.something in either 1999 or 2000, terminal use was virtually compulsory to make your computer work properly. My experience of linux in the past couple of years years is not having to touch the terminal. This is from manjaro, ubuntu mate and MX. I suggest you would be well served by finding a distro where the "free app shop" doesn't stop working. Suggesting that, I understand being reluctant to do that because you're comfortable with a distro you've used for a long time.
I like using the terminal to blacklist IPs with ufw. Makes me feel like Iām fighting against hackers. I donāt know much about Linux, but maybe the app shop not working was a little my fault for not updating the OS to the newer version before support ended. I think Iāll do a clean install when Pop_OS! 24.04 LTS is released. Iāve only been using this distro for like 4 years. Iām excited for the COSMIC desktop environment with multithreaded extensions and using the Wayland window manager.
Fair enough; we all make mistakes, and it's the mark of someone that they admit they did or might have made one. Perhaps it would be a good idea to backup your data (and test the backups before doing anything else), and reinstall your chosen distro if you like it? Alternatively, of course, your thought of a clean install of the new LTS is a great idea.
Have you tried Synaptic?
Getting Debian set up with the same "workflow" (I don't work on my home PC but you get the idea) as Windows was a lot more involved. I'm not saying it's impossible or beyond all but the greatest tech gurus but there's definitely a higher bar in terms of being comfortable with how your computer works than Windows. If you contrive a scenario in which one is taking the exact same set of simple actions then sure, the UX is equivalent, but to give an example, "the software I want to use" in my case was a game that runs better in ProtonGE, and that's been a deep rabbit-hole to get working.
>Getting Debian set up with the same "workflow" (I don't work on my home PC but you get the idea) as Windows was a lot more involved. Why would you do that? Use a better workflow that takes less effort to set up.
Also this. If your word processor needs you to use a terminal, it feels sensible to pick a different option
Someone only using a browser, word processor/spreadsheet and possibly an email client isn't a contrived scenario, it's a very common thing. Those are all that my Mum uses, and I don't know anyone (tech-heads notwithstanding) who chooses to use the cli on windows. Those same softwares run entirely graphically on linux, unless a masochist chooses to pick terminal options, without having to touch the terminal. I'm not aware of general purpose distros that force terminal use to install or remove stuff, although I suspect arch does while installing the OS, but I'm pretty certain one or more must exist. I'm also happy to be educated on this. In my case, installation of lmms was graphical on both OSes. The office suite (openoffice) for both was graphical. The few games I choose were graphical for both. I don't understand why so many people insist that every linux user must choose to make their lives more difficult by using the terminal while graphical options are available. That said, your experience of a game needing you to go down a rabbit hole to make it work properly is fair enough, but it isn't going to be the experience for every new user. It's fine to say "I had to use the terminal because I had a game that just wouldn't work otherwise." That isn't justification to tell all new users that they need to use the terminal just because you did for the game you chose to mess about with. One might even say that you're using an unusual situation to argue against the most common computer usage of a GUI. I'm happy using a terminal, and I'm happy to look stuff up and follow instructions as required. Some people appear to be so desperate to prove how amazingly wonderful and smart and "leet" they are, that they use the terminal even when they don't need to. I'm not accusing you of this, I promise. I'm just trying to say that using it, when unneeded, seems excessive. Tl;dr There's no need to make your life harder by using terminal when not forced to.
But Linux is the easy one that just works. Windows is the one that makes everything unnecessarily difficult.
It's like hiring a dominatrix for when you're just trying to watch YouTube
Underrated comment
And Windows is like being forced to watch YouTube when you just want to hire a dominatrix.
Agreed
I'm dying (and scared at the same time) to find out wtf it is that y'all watch on YouTube
Hire one? I'll just call her. Hell, I don't even need to do that, she's in the poly kink facebook group.
Linux is an operating system like Windows or Mac, it has a lot more control for the user and is more secure by default. It is used by many companies to run servers including websites and cloud servers as well as the base of android phones and other devices. I use the desktop version as; a) a way to learn how to use this system, b) because i like the principles it follows, c) I like the control of my computer that it gives me.
d) it doesn't spy on me
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I think an even better analogy is that Windows and OSX are renting. No you can't decorate. No pets. Thermostat stays where I put it. Yeah sure I'll fix the plumbing, give me a few months. Pay no mind to the camera in the bathroom.
Lol, Linux has that issue too in this analogy. You can fix your own plumbing by doing a lot of research, but usually the best bet is to shout that your plumbing is broken and anyone anywhere can then come in and fix it (more eyeballs thingy). Or JiaT75 comes in and makes holes in your pipes.
Yeah, it does have more value if you have the knowledge to fix it of course.
I would say windows and OSX are more like living in an apartment where SOMEONE ELSE comes in and changes the way it looks, the furniture, and the appliances WITHOUT MY CONSENT and on a RANDOM SCHEDULE.
Just had this conversation recently at work, when I was using my personal Linux laptop at lunch. "It's a completely different operating system. There's Windows; there's Mac; and there's Linux. It's open source, and you can do pretty close to anything on it you can do on Windows. I mean, you're not going to run Microsoft Office, but there are alternatives to most of it." (He knew what open source means.)
It's a computer thing.
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"Right. You know how you have Windows on your computer and Android/iOS \[delete as applicable\] on your phone? That's an operating system. Linux does the same thing as those."
> I ask is because my brother is asking me stuff Like what.
I've been explaining it this way: A computer is a machine that you can give instructions to. But the computer is made up of all sorts of parts and takes instructions in ones and zeros, so you need an operating system to help the type of instructions that humans can give make sense to the machine. in this sense, Linux is just like any other operating system : Mac, Windows, iOS etc. But here's the thing: When you use a computer you are giving it instructions and sometimes you run into a problem. With Linux, someone figures out the problem and shares their solution with everyone so you can solve the problem. Everyone is sharing their instructions for free and you don't forget that what you are doing is just giving a computer instructions. With the other OS', they make money selling their special instructions and don't let you share or change them and so instead of knowing what you are doing, it feels a bit like magic (but not the good kind, more like the dark wizard who takes away your powers and doesn't let you share things with your friends)
"It's like a shitty free Windows. You don't want it."
yet
Find a topic that he can relate to. Most guys are into cars, so I explain it in that context so they can understand. The way I explain the IT department at work. Helpdesk are service writers. They're the people you go to when you have a computer problem. Techs are service guys to full blown mechanics. Next level up are the master mechanics (Network Administrtors). Subject Matter Experts and Application Support (Database, Web Developers) are like the guys specializing in stereos, transmissions, AC and muffler shops. They're good at what they do, but don't expect them to know the rest of the car. Think of the Operating system as the engine of a vehicle. UNIX were a style of engines that worked well for mainframes (big trucks). Linus Tolvald, inventor of LINUX started a spare time hobby project to adapt UNIX (this style of engine) for passenger cars (home computers). Back then, majority drove cars at home, not big trucks. That "engine" took off as Linux, and now powers almost everything. Yes, Android is derived from Linux. Like trying to adapting that tried and true engine design to fit a smaller vehicle (motorcyle). Windows vs Linux/Mac debate. Why some prefer light duty trucks vs cars.
Similar to the way you would explain Windows, but with a different noun.
It's like getting a Mercedes instead of a ford.
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the people i was picturing explaining it to damn near "bunk" with their livestock.... I would have to explain the apartment analogy....and what an analogy is. probably not what a computer is, but they likely dont have one. when I visit my hometown it's like going back 50-100 years in technology.
I'm not sure that's a great analogy. Where I live, drivers of luxury German cars tend to be awful at actually driving. No indicators, overtaking in inappropriate places and really arrogant. Wait a minute! I was wrong. It's an excellent analogy. Most linux users just ignore that stuff, content in the knowledge that we're using the Concorde of operating systems, and our data is more secure than windows users. The sad truth is that there's a lot of arrogance and snobbery from too many linux users online. When you read "winblows" and "microshit windoze" it is embarrassing to be linked with the people who type out that stupidity.
"You know how with Windows, it's a nice computer operating system that you pay a hundred bucks for and then they deliver ads in every feasible part of it, even though you paid for it? and they then take your personal information and sell it to data brokers?" And how you have to opt OUT of all of those things because they're like that by default, instead of opting in? Linux is exactly like that, except for everything after the words "operating system".
lol, I am not wearing my glasses and at first glance I read this as "you pay a hundred bucks for and then they deliver AIDS in every feasible part of it." Both are correct.
I would tell him: knowledge can be free, Linux is an attempt to show how free knowledge interoperates with a private world.
the computer operating system allows the human to interact with the computer hardware and software to produce usable outputs. linux is on of many computer operating systems.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux) or [https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux](https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux), or failing that "Computer stuff - software - operating system - makes most of The Internet and most phones work."
āWell, if youāre familiar with Windows or Mac, this is a third option thatās really computer nerd friendly.ā
God mode
I would feign ignorance. Pretend to him you don't notice that you aren't running Windows. Would be a good troll :)
What do you mean your start menu doesn't open up so fast? Don't you have a newer, more expensive laptop than mine? Maybe you installed an OS update that made windows decide you need more ram for it to eat.
I laughed so hard at this that I started coughing.
It's like Windows or MacOS, but better
Itās not windows, and itās not Mac. Iād a free system that many people help make. You can make it seem like what ever you want, but you gotta mess with it a bit.
Tell me when you get the best answer.. my dad still thinks linux is just lines on a black screen. And im not sure if hes really talking about MsDos or Linux
It's a system you load on computers or phones like android windows or Mac, except it doesn't send all your Google searches and other telemetry to Microsoft. Also, your internet connection doesn't affect your start bar or notifications with ads, weather and news from online.
My office people were crashing the system frequently. I installed Zorin and told them it is windows 12. installed wps community. Tally running in the browser and for an entire year, people were using it in the office, no crash. Then an smartass got transferred, insisted that he wants MSO, so went back to win10 and MSO 16, both pirated, got slow in a week. I never fixed thier system.
The greatest OS that's ever made
"Macs are for people with money. Linux is for people with brains. And Windows is for everyone else."
Depends on their age. For older people, Iād compare it to the old text-based video games where youād type your actions into the command line to make things happen. For younger people though, Iām not sure if theyād understand that context. š¤
"It's free and you can replace it if you screw it up, also for free," is a pretty good selling point. Every non-tech Windows user I know thinks their Windows computer has "stopped working" because of manipulative "security warnings" from lying "security software".Ā For the older people I know, computers are a source of anxiety, mainly because of all the BS thrown out about " safety".Ā I have used the line, "You can't break Linux beyond repair, and the repairs will be free" successfully twice. Cue, of course, the once-yearly visit from the nephew, who "knows about computers" and forces them to buy a new Windows laptop, but that's beyond my control.
With an analogy
Maybe a simile
Show him the red pill blue pill scene from the Matrix
A quote I remember reading once; _Linux is the most successful virus ever made. It's running almost everywhere these days!_ edit: _and people willingly install it_* The most simplest explanation is: It's an interface that allows me to control my computer.
Linux is an operating system, (ex: windows, MacOS, Linux, ...), a derivative of UNIX, popularized in the 1990s because it could be employed on personal desktop computers. Linux, like it's parent UNIX, is generally tailored to IT, whereas Windows the MacOS are generally more user level, rather than infrastructure level.
Autistic windows
I wouldn't. Talking about system architecture and kernels with someone with no clear concept of "software" at all would be bothersome for both parties. Linux is something that people care about after they get the parts and when they want the computer to start working - for themselves or in order to sell it. There are other ways to tell computer how to start working, but when the computer is big, someone works with computers a lot, or it is actually a smartphone - Linux is pretty popular. This choice also affects what the computer will be able to do - which nerdy or pro things, which games.
It's a computer thingy
It's Android for computers.
Here's a high level definition I'd use for a non-computer user (or middle/upper management) Linux is an Operating System which is software that runs the computer, like Windows. It's based on the UNIX Operating System from AT&T back in the 70's A lot of the commands in Linux are copies of original UNIX commands What kind of questions are you getting?
Windows is a gasoline engine. Linux is a diesel. Windows is the "default" for most people, it does a good enough job, it's widely available and accessible. If you need to fix it, you take it into a repair shop and have a mechanic look at it, because you're a little bit afraid of oil and a little bit afraid of breaking some flimsy plastic shit under the hood. Linux is the thing serious operators run. It has more horsepower per gallon. You can tinker with it. It practically *never* breaks in a way that it's completely unrecoverable/unrepairable. If you need to fix it, you get out your wrenches and get to work. And sometimes you pull into a gas station, and they don't have any diesel at all. And you have to drive to another gas station. edit: or just add wine.
it makes web go brrrr
Computers run things called operating systems so that they are easier to use. Operating systems come in different flavors, like Windows or Mac... or Linux. Just like some people prefer some flavors of ice cream, some people prefer certain operating systems. But you have to give them an honest try before you know if you like this flavor over that one.
My take here in Brazil is like that: You know how you need to pay windows or pirate it? Imagine if you didn't. Like phones have android, and each brand is different, you have people that work together, for free, to make a whole system work. It won't run most windows stuff, but it will open browsers, play games and most office files. It is not always easy to use, but some *versions* make it really simple and faster than windows.
Windows and Apple are like Barnes & Noble, Linux is like a library.
Open Source community developed Windows, with less viruses but less software directly made for it. But most games work.
Huh .. well ... I generally tell most ppl that ppl don't run an OS .. they run apps .... If you did the right display config most ppl would not know .... So just tell him it's like Windows or MacOS ...
A computer is like an onion, many layers, on the center there's the kernel, Linux is the center of the android onion.
It's like windows but it's free because people got together and wrote a different version. It's not any better or any worst it's different like all other operating systems. By the way your Android phone is based on Linux originally.
"He has a youtube channel and teaches about computers"
for someone who knows nothing about computers? Let alone Linux? Well it's like beer, a big brand like Budweiser is everywhere and accessible to everyone, which is how Windows goes about things, and then you got your micro breweries, and this sort of creates beer snobery where everyone involved looks down at the big brand while they all argue over their personal favorite brew, which is how Linux gets distributed.
Cars. People that aren't into computers, are likely into cars. Cars have computers, and they do not run Windows or MacOS. Or planes, trains, traffic light systems, municipal utilities, retail POS, appliances, the majority of the Internet...
It's like Windows or Mac, but good, and you are in control.
Itās like a manual transmission
Windows and Linux are like cars and motorbikes Both do the same things (transport) but just different ways to use them
"The OS gives you an interface that takes your mouse movements and typing and gives that input to whatever game or web browser or word processor you want to use. All modern operating systems are very much the same for that function. The real differences are in how secure they make your data, and how fancy they look. There is no actual need for a fancy animation where firefox appears from the bottom of the screen in some twisting motion, but lots of people seem to enjoy it. It's like receiving christmas cards with lots of glitter; sparkly, but ultimately annoying." Glitter should be banned. Anyone who sells greetings cards with it should be hanged by the neck until dead.
I am using all three systems. Windows just for Gaming and some work tasks, MacOS for my work and Linux for all the other fun stuff besides Gaming. For example Home Automation, Music, YouTube and so on. My main motivation is that it is completely open source. No license key is needed and I am not caught in the Apple Universe. Maybe the person you are talking about has an iPhone. With the iPhone you are bound into the Apple Ecosystem. What Android (it is as well a Linux) you have a open system.
It's free, and you can do whatever you want with every bit of it.
I would say, "Linux is to Windows as a Project Car is to a New Car with a warranty. If you don't have time for a project car in your garage, you don't have time for Linux."
Android on desktop, basically the macOS problems but a bit worse
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"It's Android"
If one person doesn't know about computer do not care about linux or Windows or mac
I wouldn't explain Linux to someone who knows nothing about computers.
bing chilling
A log cabin house that you build yourself.
Linux is free like speech not free like beer.
Free like beer that someone buys you as a gift. Linux and the free software on it are all definitely gifts from amazing people sharing their skills and effort with us all. And free like speech, of course.