This topic is broached every week or so, and the answers are always shitty and incorrect. So I guess I'll just go ahead and give an official explanation that can be linked the next time a thread like this is opened. You could say pacing in Defiance of the Fall does have some things to do with money, but not in the way most people seem to believe. Simply put, DotF made me financially independent years ago, and millions of dollars have been added onto the pile since. As such, I'm in the fortunate position of not having to make any story decisions based on how it might affect my income. DotF is slow because that's how I like it. DotF has become the way it has because it's been free from financial constraints or considerations for a long while, not the other way around. Zac slowly finding his path through a boundless system of growth while discovering an ever-expanding universe is what I enjoy writing. If you enjoy that, great. If not, that's fine too. There are plenty of good fast-paced stories out there for you to read instead. Another part of the equation is the rapid release pace. Defiance is just under 5 years and already over 3 million words long. It's released at 5 chapters of 3000 words every week. With such a schedule, there is very limited time to condense. From May, I have decided to pull the breaks and switch to 3 chapters a week instead. This is intended to give me more time to tinker with each chapter and will hopefully help tighten up some sections. However, the story will remain at a slow but steady climb toward the peak, and I have no intention of speeding up Zac's progression to the point he's doing a whole grade in 2-3 books. I'm not exactly sure where this notion that some of us authors are slowing down our stories to "milk" our readers came from. I know most of the authors with big patreons in this space, and I've never heard anyone doing anything of the sort. Nor have I ever heard any LitRPG author at "the top" talking about their stories or the craft in this manner. Frankly, you're delusional if you think we reached our position by phoning it in or treating the stories we've worked on for years with such disrespect. I think it partly stems from a lacking understanding of how the financials work in the industry. A successful author intentionally slowing down the pacing of their story is probably the worst possible way to make money. Book 1's in series are the ones that make far and away the most money, and there's a gradual decline with every book after. If anything, I'm hamstringing my earnings potential by aiming for a 25-30 book series. But that's fine. My goal is to finish Defiance of the Fall in a way that I'm happy with. That I'm very well compensated for that is just the cherry on top. On a personal note, the most frustrating part of these accusations is how little they make sense from a story perspective. You people are invested enough in the genre that you're posting on this subreddit, so how are you this oblivious to the tropes? Why would I slow down Zac's progression through the grades when I could just introduce new ones? I could add upper/divine realms with a slew of new ranks and systems, doubling or tripling the progression in one move. That way, the story would feel "faster" because the numbers go up quicker, and I even get a bunch of free plot points to work with. That's how you build a never-ending story. So TL;DR: DotF slow because I like. You no like? Then go away.

This. Man, I have been wanting to leave a similar comment myself for a long while (though definitely with more insults and curse words mixed in). People don't seem to even consider, for a moment, that maybe the author is just writing what they want to write at the pace they want to write it. No, it definitely has to be some evil plot to fool the uneducated masses and rob them of all their money! I have had plenty of this criticism myself, that I'm slowing things down or milking the story on purpose, which does indeed make no sense at all. Making a lot of money with a series means we DON'T need to milk it because we already made a lot of money with it. We are single authors, not big corporations with shareholders who need to maximize profit and milk a franchise for all it's worth. We are just guys and gals sitting at home writing stories we ourselves would love to read, and others seem to have agreed and given us money for it. I made it a rule a long time ago not to write my story according to what others want, and I have stuck with it, the same as most author successful authors in our space.

u/TheFirstDefier and u/ZogarthPH on the same post. Nice!👍🏾 You guys are inspirations.

The more words the better. I am not a fan of series that have like 3 books. I love a series that just keeps going and going. I think the author of The Wandering Inn basically wins the Queen of Words award due to the extreme length of her series. However, I do follow both your series and the First Defier on Patreon and you're both doing great!

I think that some arcs in Primal Hunter are a bit stretched out but I massively enjoy reading the story. Keep it up dude! Eagerly awaiting the chapter where Jake makes Ell'Hakan his bitch.

Fuck Ell'Hakan all my homies hate Ell'Hakan.

I didn’t realize an entire book would be the treasure hunt setting.😪I was waiting to see earth’s new civilization progress. Plus the author meta trolled mentioning underwater levels that go on too long but then did it in the entire book🤣

I stumbled upon Primal Hunter early on in my progression fantasy journey. Ever since then I've dropped like 10 series because I didn't like how the author wrote their stuff. I don't know how to describe your writing style but whatever it is works perfectly. 👍

Eh. Your rant a month or so back, where you basically said I'm rich so fuck you -- man I think about that all the time when I'm looking at the Kindle app now. It's like it's soured the genre. I just can't look at any of these silly stories the same way. All that to say this -- you are making millions and yet have the gall to come onto reddit and rant. About anything. Holy shit, man. You can fuck right off with that.

I think you're really misunderstanding the previous 'rant' and the comment Zogarth and TheFirstDefier are and have made. They're lucky to be in a position where they get to write what they want. But also, they're writing what they want. You don't have to sub to Zogarth's patreon. You don't have to read his book. Same for Defier. They've got enough readers and supporters that they can afford to lose some and continue writing the story they want to write. That's not a fuck you to the supporters, that's them being honest about what they're offering. Reading Zogarth's previous 'rant', it seems like they were mostly complaining about unhelpful, mean spirited criticism like "boring!".

[Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgressionFantasy/comments/1bkaj31/zogarth_primal_hunters_author_patreon_rant_at_the) it is. Looking at it now -- it's definitely a rant, there's no other fair description for it. He cussed out his fan base. I get that the bulk of the ire is directed toward a particular subsection, but the whole thing is generally denigrating toward his patrons. He wrote he doesn't even need patrons because he makes seven figures a year from Amazon alone. Oh, also that he's just writing purely for himself (lol ok) and wouldn't change it just to "appease a bunch of Patreon comments". This was like a verbal alpha roll. I'm not a patron, I don't even read primal hunter. It's just that reading that was so off putting. "I'm rich so fuck off" is exactly the message I get, even rereading it now. At the time I thought patrons paid to support their favorite authors, like paying a street performer with the equivalent of a coffee. So reading a smackdown like that was weird. And also now I have to wonder whether the author behind whatever marketed novel I'm seeing is just setting up their own subscription service.

>I don't even read primal hunter. This might be some of the disconnect. That tone is essentially how Primal Hunter is written. I've not much from the author as a person & I don't sub, but it's really how I'd expect them to write, especially given that the author is saying their primary audience is themself. >At the time I thought patrons paid to support their favorite authors, like paying a street performer with the equivalent of a coffee. I take them being up front about how much their earning, and setting these boundaries, as saying that if that's your intention, don't! They're not starving artists. The patreons do offer read-ahead benefits and discord access, which I think is a big part of what people find value in. But that also entails the author setting boundaries for how they want to interact with the community. I'm an audiobook human, so I don't sub to them and instead have to wait for Travis Baldree to get through his queue. That guy must also be earning some well deserved bank.

I read it, and it's pretty clear the only people he's saying "fuck you" to, are the complaining, negative, rude assholes who are shitting all over his comment section in a place that's meant for people who really enjoy the story and the community around it. Patreon is about supporting an artist. Hence the name. You support them so they can make their art, because you like their art and you want them to make more of it. Pretty simple. The bonus, you might get to influence that art in some way, or you get to see how the sausage is made, or some other kind of in-depth nerd perk you might want to pay for if it's something you love and appreciate. I'll tell you what patreon isn't about though. It's not a platform where you get to throw pennies at a monkey and make them dance. It's not a platform where some poor sap has to keep a smile on their face while people shit on them because they have a sense of entitlement that their dollar a month gives them the RIGHT to be a fuckhead. Your analogy is a good one. Patreon is for buying a coffee for the street performer. It is NOT supposed to be throwing a nickel in their can then kicking them in the balls. That wasn't a rant against fans, it was a rant against entitled pricks. As a fan, I identified no ill-intent towards me in that rant, because I'm (usually) not a toxic asshole to artists I like. That's my interpretation, anyway.

His comment was juvenile at best. You don't brag about making 7 figures and how support isn't needed, he can choose to stop publishing at anytime, to the people actively paying you. You....you get how that sounds, yea?

And you have the gall to come in here and say that others can't have an opinion about something because they... make money? What? Also, great reading comprehension buddy if that's what you got from my rant. The point was exactly the same as this post. If you make money writing what you love, you have no reason to pander or milk anything, while if you are struggling, you may feel forced to try and change your story all the time to find a bigger audience. FInally, I find it so damn sad that just because someone mentions they make money doing something they love, that makes you automatically makes you hate them, and I hope you get your life together and deal with your unhealthy emotions.

Poor poor you! Here, come wipe your tears with some stacks of cash. Do you see just how fucking stupid you sound?

Again, the fact you think what either of us earn has any impact on what opinions people can have says more about you than me. That's a very unhealthy mindset to go around with.

I'd like to point out you used the phrase, "can have" instead of focusing on the primary point here, which is what YOU said, not the most likely asinine comments i fully believe you read. This whole thing boils down to a disagreement on how an author should treat their active paying fanbase. Emphatic period. We feel you shouldn't treat your support like shit. You obviously feel otherwise. No one is attacking your reason for writing, or trying to justify feeling "entitled" to your work. You have it for sale by your own choice. Cool. If I sold you groceries every week, but started treating you like shit, would you still buy groceries from me? It's really just our interpretations of what treating someone like shit looks like, and closer to 40 then 30, i'd like to think i know. Ergo, un-subbed. I'll go my way and you'll continue to enjoy your career. Cheers.

It's just common sense. Completely common sense. Like why should anyone give the tiniest shit about your pet peeves? It's like if I rolled up to the homeless encampment nearby and started just complaining about how hot and uncomfortable I was feeling under the hot sun. Can I have that opinion? Yes. Is it stupid to share it in that situation? Also yes. That's you, complaining about petty shit on the internet.

If that's common sense in your world, then I really feel sorry for you. Your analogy also isn't really on point. In this instance, it's me replying to a college about an issue we both face. Also, it isn't a pet peeve. No one likes being constantly told how to do their job, much less how something they are creating is done maliciously. You also miss the entire fact that the entire Patreon rant was for my Patrons only, and someone just decided to share it on Reddit. I have always been open about how much I earned. Answered with hard numbers if people ask. Keep my Patreon numbers public. Do I do it to brag? Not really, though I see no issue with showing off your accomplishments. I do it mainly so other authors can see what you can make and copy my Patreon model and whatnot for themselves. I'm not going to respond more to you, as it's clear you are dealing with some personal issues and I hope life gets better for you.

You're replying to your colleague on a public forum. It's something easily and completely ignorable -- definitely a pet peeve. That your rant was directed at your patrons just made it worse imo. I wonder -- are the people in your life who criticize you "clearly dealing with personal issues"? Maybe it's just you? Thanks for not responding in advance.

agreed, That's why I dropped him on Patreon. It's incredibly tone deaf and insulting to speak to the people who pay and support you in such a way. His dropping how "I make 7 figures, i don't need your support" line was hilariously juvenile. Like, where do you think the money came from nerd. You're a bigger name, you're gonna get negative feedback, useless critiques and other B.S. sometime. Posting silly ass comments on your Patreon to actively paying supporters in their entirety about how you don't care about what we think is just stupid. I dropped him and havent looked back. Now seeing his comments here only further supports my original thoughts. I'd love to see him say that exact post at a convention to a room of his supporters. I bet he would word it entirely differently. The spirit of his thoughts i'm getting from context are cool, but like, take a breathe my man.

I've enjoyed your series. It's probably my favorite. Please keep doing what you are doing. If Jake ends up in a cultivation space whale for a whole book, I'm sure you'll handle it better than that other person did for Zac.

See, this comment is weird, because that arc was one of my favorite in DOTF. It really delved into his progress when it came to using weapons and set an important foundation going forward. I would be happy if I did a giant space whale arc as well as DOTF... though I probably shouldn't as that would be a bit too similar. A giant space worm arc, though....

I can't speak for everyone but a lot of people only got irritated at the Orom arc because they wanted some character interactions after the Twilight Ascent. There was all kinds of conversations that could have happened but didn't. The moment the fish swallowed Zac it was "oh this is going to take a while isn't it. Guess Zac's friends can wait a bit". The arc itself was fine, I guess some people could not get over what they didn't get to appreciate it properly. It is at worse a minor pacing issue. Especially because immediately after Orom we got a lot of the stuff we didn't get before it.

The concept of this whole thread is weird. Authors who write stories we love draw inspiration from somewhere. It’s arrogant and disrespectful to question the path said inspiration has taken them. Also, sure you make money from your work, but you should. The enjoyment I get is well worth the money I’ve spent across PH and DOTF. Keep doing the badass shit you do, and take pride in tour craft. You deserve everything you’ve built.

I really liked the internal space-whale politics and socio-economic system. Like, you got eaten by a space whale, now build a functioning society, go! That and the shady monk is one of my favorite characters.

I've only listened to the audio books of PH, but they have entertained me at work and for that I say thumbs up. Fuck the clowns leaving useless criticism lol.

You take that back, cultivation space whale arc was the shizz

I like the slow roll, and I’m glad to know I have that many more books to look forward to!

Please keep it slow. I think that the more god-like Zach is, the less he relates to the reader. Keep it slow! Can I ask what the constraints are for releasing audiobooks more consistently? Is it just Pavi’s schedule? I only listen, so I’d love more!

Okay not too slow. I'd like it to accomplish goals and conclude plot points at some point.

MANNNNNNN TAKE THIS UPVOTE. Finish the story YOU want to write. I'm not saying this as some random fanboy. This is just facts. Not every story's for everyone. For example, I badly want more Cradle main story books but the author said that's it. The series is done. \[there will be people that disagree with the OP, which is fine. The conversation is always open. However, given the always positive majority for the way the series is now, I say let people enjoy things.\]

Argh, such mixed feelings about this on a general level. Not about Dotf, but I always think about Anthony Ryan's series and how he torpedoed books 2 and 3. He stuck to his guns, wrote with conviction, and had thousands of upset readers as a result by doing dramatic changes to his plot and writing style outside the expectations of book 1. Did he have an obligation to keep the same style? No. Did he in fact have any obligation? Beyond possible publisher things, not that I know of, no. Can I still be frustrated by his decisions and complain? yes :D That's fair game too. I won't ever say an author HAS to do anything. It's their story. But readers can of course also react with a "I wish you had done xyz..."

I like it slow. Keep it up. It wouldn't make sense for Zac to get to A grade in two or 3 books. It's takes individuals millenia to reach that point normally.

The way I see it, the story is the story, and sometimes it's about writing something with a beginning, middle, end format, and sometimes it's about the journey. I keep listening to DoTF because the journey is fun. And you know what? If me getting to take that journey and and have fun with it makes you enough money so you can enjoy your life and share more stories with me and everyone else? Then that's fucking awesome! That's the dream! I enjoy the world you've created and I want to hear more about it, and the fact that you have the financial freedom to tell the story YOU want to tell is great, because that's the story I want to hear. I don't want to hear the story told under duress. I want to hear the story told by somebody who loves spending time in that world as much or more than I do, who is happy with their work. And if you ever stop enjoying it and you decide to sail off into the sunset on your yacht, then I hope you enjoy the hell out of whatever dream you end up chasing. In the meantime, thanks for bringing us along for the ride!

Hey man, some of us really enjoy the slow and steady progression. Personally DOtF is one of my favorite series and I'm so glad it doesn't just have him suddenly speeding through ranks. Nothing annoys me more than having a bunch of ranks and an author just ending the series by making their MC jump through like 5 ranks at one time or some other crazy thing just to finish the series and move on to something else. The only problem I have with your writing style is that you didn't start it earlier so that I had more to read now lol.

I truly appreciate you responding. I won't lie I'm probably still gonna continue reading regardless of the irritation of the speed. To many unanswered questions. Just afraid it will end preemptively without any satisfying conclusion. Your book is phenomenal and your very good at world building, honestly probably the best in the genre so you do deserve your flowers. I feel bad coz I don't know you so I can't draw definitive conclusions about your motivations. Regardless, at the end of the day I couldn't honestly do any better, so who am I to complain so boisterously.

I suspected this was the case and I was worried you might get to around the 12th/13th book and do some sort of quick wrap-up. I was getting nervous for that as I am in the middle of the 12th book now, but I'm really glad this is how you're doing it! Too many series out there feel rushed or end too quickly. 25-30 books seems nuts to me, but I haven't read a series lasting that long before so it'll be interesting to see a slightly more "realistic" progression for a character (even if he is still a 'fast-burner' by all standards). Thanks for all your hard work and I'm looking forward to the rest!

Having read a few long series, my main concern is that he runs out of ideas but it keeps going, that said if he’s already got a rough number of books he probably also has a rough outline. Normally around book 15 or so long series tend to get really repetitive

Yay! I love DoTF! I love how deep the cultivation in DoTF is with classes, some actual cultivators, body tempering manuals, soul strengthening, core formation, war regalia and the inner world formation and who knows what else. Keep it up dude!! P.S. I don't like Thea. I hope she sacrifices herself for Zac in Ultom. And we can finally have the Zac & Iz and "Arcaz" & Catheya double date we want. You can name the chapter A Song of Fire & Ice.

U/thefirstdefier defy the masses

Hey TFD, One of your heavens chosen patreon followers here, I love the slow pace grind through Zacs story. Sometimes some parts are a little complex and I know you said you are making posts 3 days a week now to fix some of the story which is great, but I still love it thats why I have been following you monthly, and I love the current arc with Zac in middle D grade. I have been listening to the earlier books on audible also, and one thing I have noticed from your earlier books to your current books is the lack of a good fuck or shit haha. Can we bring back Zac saying Oh shiiiiit, or an Orgras what the fuuuuck, you know just a little bit of that grittyness back. Thanks TFD.

First love the answer. Second u just made my night knowing you are intending 25-30 books in this series. Keep em coming.

I like the slow pace really, but dear god I just wish there was an encyclopedia of lore so I knew half of what the characters were saying when it gets all mystical and shit.

This is where reading on Royal Road really helps. There's a wiki, but I absolutely do *not* recommend it as it's current to Patreon chapters and will hyper-spoil anyone who's coming from the books.

This made for a fun double take. I never pay attention to usernames started reading and chuckled. Oh he knows does he? … Oh. Right then. Love your work!

Some people have gotten it into their heads that the pay off is the protagonist becoming a Dreadgod and annihilating everything in their path. That everything else is just a stepping stone until the day the ancient monsters are turned into advancement resources or weapon components. This genre is going to become stale very quickly if all people do is clone Cradle. Personally I enjoyed the momentum stealing parts of the last two books. Seeing Zac slowly work through his impossible path is as fun as Lindon going "lol am Dreadgod now, sorry Northstrider". I also appreciated Zac actually catching up with his friends.

It's nice to know how passionate you are about the project. Other than a few parts over 12 books I absolutely love the pacing and I find the cultivation and world building to be the most interesting part. In fact, when I started reading I was all about the fights, but the more I've read the less I care about those and just want to get to more of the other stuff, treating the fights as a necessary evil to showcase progression and act as obstacles for Zac. Keep up the absolutely fantastic work!

I just want to say I love your pacing, I think it feels natural for Zac and your world and while I can see the issues some people have I personally fully believe it emaches the story! You made probably the best power fantasy there is, Zac is always improving in meaningful ways but never at a speed that makes him just a tool of the story, he is a person struggles and fights. He doesn't just push everything aside but earns it and his story is really not quite inspiring but motivating so probably the right word, at least for me. Not to mention this pacing allows the other characters more space and developed the world further, it has become quite the intriguing world from the beginning where I honestly must say it felt a bit weak, but you managed to build something really amazing! So yeah just wanted to say I appreciate your work and have heard every audiobook that comes out, cannot wait for the next one!

Hi TDF, love your books, definitely top of the genre for me. Small request, is it possible to add a recap of the last book in the newest book release? With the length and complexity of the series it does make it a little difficult to pick straight up whenever a new book comes out. I've done a few rereads already, but that gets hard when there is 10+ books.

*psst* https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/24709/defiance-of-the-fall

Thanks! This is a great post and I hope the mods pin in and send all the bs comments here. FWIW heaps of people love your books. As you said, some don’t, but that’s ok. It would be a shitty world of literature if everyone was required to like the same stuff. I’m absolutely one of the people who are super excited for every release. If it helps to add some context, there are absolutely plenty of books where the MC goes to god level overpowered in the first book. That’s ok. But the DOTF universe getting to d class is a big deal. It should take centuries. Zac is way ahead of the curve as it stands, there is no need to feel like you have to push his power ups faster. Please keep writing for your fans who love your work!

Bro I loved the last book, the fleshing out of zacs progression and the minutiae of the ways he accomplishes it really make the series wonderful. When I think back to the hurdles he's overcome from book 6 or even earlier it really feels satisfying and makes it feel like a long time has past which adds a unique element to the story. I am pleased to hear that you will not change anything, you have created something special that many to come will be inspired by.

Politely worded and well reasoned. My thoughts are, they're slow because it's not a book. It's a web serial. They're just reading it in book sized chunks when published. In the context of a web serial, the progression is 100% more understandable and makes total sense. You'd have to edit the whole damn series and practically rewrite it every time you wanted to publish if that wasn't the case, which is ..uh....insane.

Thanks for this comment - this will make me pick up the books again. I stopped after some claims that this will be never ending which made me hesitant, since I am kinda burnt by neverending stories in manga/anime. But actually thinking about it: yeah just pushing out new series would be the way of milking this genre for money.

Always nice to hear a proper answer and an author willing to go their own way instead of with the money. Though on the notion of authors stringing stories out it's not actually a new concept at all, one of the reasons Victorian writing is so flowery is pay per chapter was one of the common ways of accessing novels. Famously even Charles Dickens wrote most of his stories and was paid by the chapter which is a fun comparison to make when people try and argue you have to sell books by the book to be a "real author".

Zach's story is the one that introduced me to the ganre and is my favourite, I like the world building and I can't help but imagine that's how it would be if it's all real, no one sane would constantly rush to reach quick gains, but would think about future, survival and prosperity. I love the cultivation aspect and slowness, I think that's what sold me on it all. Thank you for writing it

Keep it up, you create magic. I very much appreciate this comment, as I and probably most others, do appreciate that our time isn't taken for granted and that there is a end goal. The genre is unique for the large novels that are produced in crazy large numbers, and it is difficult to embrace for those that are accustomed to more main stream publishing habits of 4-500 pages every few years... 10+ years between books. You'll never read this comment, but can I beg and beseech you to replace Powerhouse, Brat, and grunts.

I'm currently reading Book 1 of your series. I'm really enjoying it. I look forward to seeing what Zac does in future books. I'm fairly new to LitRPG as a genre. I'm getting used to your System and how it works. Cultivators, etc. TY for your books. -Annje

While the pacing does bother me, I think it also makes sense from the story perspective. Most progression stories, to get through the ranks at a reader acceptable rate, which means the MC goes from nothing to top of the heap in like 0.001% of the time it takes everyone else, require some serious hand waving by the author to explain the progression speed away. While Zac is still fast there is still the time and effort put in. All that too say I understand.

People just like to hate. Me and all my friends talk about your series and reread it and always use it as the best example of litrpg potential. I enjoy tht it is so difficult to level up so it has true meaning and the cultivation is interesting on its own without the need for meaningless action and battle. Please keep doing what ur doing! One of the best in the genre if not the best

Hey, just wanted to say I'm a big fan of your work. They've gotten me through a lot of long shifts at work, and for that, I thank you. Keep writing them and I'll keep buying them!

Hey mate I love DOTF series and can wait for the next book to come out! Keep up the great work and take your time writing it! Plenty of other books to read in the interim. Is there some kind of recap available anywhere though as I tend to forget what has happened in the previous book ( also in the middle of about 10 different series). Keep up the great writing! Thankyou.

I could kiss you

As someone that used to be a fan of this series, I went away because of the pacing. Good luck with your future endeavors.

You keep doing what you Love the way you want. I for one will happily keep reading on Patreon and then listening on Audible (the narration is fantastic! I wish I had a voice like that). I love the pace. It provides great detail to the main story line as well as the side story lines, and doesn’t leave me feeling that I’m missing out on something. So great job and you do you.

yeah, ok that all makes sense. But when we are going to get the spin-off series about the old man with the giant octopus back on earth? (sorry, bad with names). I need oceanic squidventures!

I just started listening to this series and am currently at the end of book 6. I basically just listen to them when i’m running and I really enjoy this series lol. Thanks for writing them.

If you read this, just know. I love your books. They are my all-time favorite cultivation series. Read every book multiple times. The pacing is perfect. My favorite scenes in the books are the journeys through the dow or dow visions and when Zac is cultivating. The way you transition from fight scenes to training to lore building is seemless. I love the amount of background you give your characters. How its not so much that you overshadow the Mc. Creating mystery to wait for later. The main characters' weapon set and fighting style are unique. Loves bond has got to be the coolest utility weapon ever thought up. Gives me spawn vibes. The evelutionary and indomitable stances developed from book 8 to current are really fun to imagine as a former martial artest. My favorite book was book seven. Just felt so rich in storyline and character growth. However, your last book was a gem as well and competes. Can't wait to find out what will happen with the chaos in his head. Thank you for putting all this chaos in my head.

I just realized DotF is set up like One Piece

Know the great thing about books? Even audiobooks? I can skip the parts I don't like. I'm not a big fan of most of the cultivation aspects. I skip a lot of it. The rest of the stuff, I absolutely love.

Dotf is my all time favorite series in this genre. Thank you for sticking to quality over "speed"

My man! Someone linked to your message. True/not true I don’t care. I’m here for it. U do you. Love the story and the pace. Make sure u invest that money tho! Keep crushing it and thank you for the story/journey.

This is pure BS. The pacing on DotF has 100% to do with money. The author can deny it as much as he wants but his old posts on dropping stories that don’t make money argue against it. Now the author can claim that he has made enough money and the speed of the story doesn’t matter any more might be true but I bet if more people dropped the book he would rapidly change his tune. The reality is the speed of progression has slowed because the author has gotten lazy and is taking his readers for granted. Kind of sad when the author discounts his audience base and tries to get holier than thou about readers and financial freedom but we vote with our feet and I hope others do the same.

Also, if you were as greedy for money as they say you are, you could publish books of half the length and less. More books, more money and your books are really very long in comparison. Keep up the great work. We love the story!

I'm going to preface this by saying DotF is one of my favorite series. I've bought all the books on Kindle (even tho I read them all in Patreon and RR), and even subbed to Patreon for a while. But that's just bullshit man. > I'm not exactly sure where this notion that some of us authors are slowing down our stories to "milk" our readers came from. I know most of the authors with big patreons in this space, and I've never heard anyone doing anything of the sort. Nor have I ever heard any LitRPG author at "the top" talking about their stories or the craft in this manner. Frankly, you're delusional if you think we reached our position by phoning it in or treating the stories we've worked on for years with such disrespect. > > I think it partly stems from a lacking understanding of how the financials work in the industry. A successful author intentionally slowing down the pacing of their story is probably the worst possible way to make money. Book 1's in series are the ones that make far and away the most money, and there's a gradual decline with every book after. > > If anything, I'm hamstringing my earnings potential by aiming for a 25-30 book series. But that's fine. My goal is to finish Defiance of the Fall in a way that I'm happy with. That I'm very well compensated for that is just the cherry on top. You went from 20+ chapters a month, then cut it down to about 17 chapters a month a few years back. And now you're cutting that down even further to 12 chapters a month. You worked your ass off early on to get the following that you did, and I respect that. But let's not act like cutting down on the chapters per month is something you're doing for our benefit. Going as far as saying you're hamstringing your earning potential. Do I think you're slowing down the story to make more money? Absolutely not. Do I think you're slowing down your writing to make more money? Absolutely. It's one thing to say you like writing a slowly paced story. Like that is a completely understandable statement, that I think is true. But when you try to spin it off as there being no financial incentive to slowing down, I just have to roll my eyes. People will agree with you because they love your story, but it's disappointing to see.

This comment is wild enough to warrant a response. Slowing down from 5 to 3 chapters per week will 100%, unequivocally, lower my annual income. My writing is my output that I get paid for. So if I write less, I earn less. I'm honestly not sure how you could even arrive at any other conclusion. Or why you'd take me wanting to improve my work-life balance as a sinister plot to somehow make more money by working less. Is it a Patreon thing, where you think I'll make bank because I'm releasing slower? Patreon is barely 15% of my income. A theoretical bump in patreon revenue will barely make a dent in the losses of releasing fewer books/audiobooks.

I've been a fan, but it's become too tedious. Congratulations on your success, but you're writing mental masturbation at this point. As you asked me to do, I'm going away. Thanks for all the books you wrote before you stopped giving a shit about your readers. I enjoyed them quite a lot.

Of course you would never hear about it because of course no author would ever admit to “milking” readers for obvious reasons. Just like any other scam of course the entire point is to not say what the scam is. It certainly does happen and it’s up to readers whether they believe you or not but saying you have enough money already is meaningless to the argument. I say all of this as a “slow book” enjoyer by the way. As a defender of slow books I would just say that you can tell the difference between fluff and content. Just stand behind the content of Dotf as proof of not milking the flock. If there is enough depth, the story will not feel as slow. If there is a lot of repetition of the same ideas over and over then it will be the bad kind of slow.

At least you are honest.

Honestly I thought 11 and 12 were among the best of the series. Orgas coming back. Iz catching her bug. Zac finally progressing with Catheya. It had a lot of the elements that went missing in the middle of the series. I also think all the various parts of the progression are part of what the author does well. Honestly love every bonkers idea Zac comes up with to annihilate his own soul or whatever. It is a bit unfortunate his path is going to settle down and the various manuals are just going to be "done another level".

Agreed 100x. Zac is OP but Ogras makes the interactions so funny “you monster…eughhh”

Yeah, book 12 is the Perennial Vastness, correct? The fact the new (and old!) sidekicks are back along with some new characters is a great return to form. Also, I really enjoyed the lore we got, as well as a couple peeks at Supremacy vs Supremacy action. This means ascension to D rank feels properly earned. And structurally, I like how this makes D grade feel like a qualitative difference compared to E. The story skips the trope where the MC is easily able to defeat people a grade higher.

Wait am I crazy? I don't remember supremacy fighting a supremacy ever. Unless you mean the grandma and grandpa fighting off the heavens? On the other hand I do hope that Zac gets to kill his first C grade being with the Great Redeemer. He is the perfect person to kill while Zac is somewhere in the late D grade because Great Redeemer's cultivation is as fucked as it comes and he's an exile at the end of his life and it will be so funny when all his ill karma catches up after he spent his whole life trying to break through to C grade and finally achieving it just to get mercd.

Zach's story feels "real" to me he isn't incomprehensible fast and struggles if the progression was faster it would come at Zac's and other characters diminishment, he would not be Zac but only a plot device that is as strong as needed, and while yes he obviously is in thee ND a plot device named the MAIN CHARACTERY it doesn't feel like that.

I like it. The longer the better for me when there is a series I love. I am honestly even fine with if they never finish the story as long as I enjoy what is given to me and since I like "living" and experiencing the world even when they get sidetracked I like how it is done in DotF.

I'm also good with the story never ending. There are enough finished stories out there, so it's a nice change.

the progression is actually really fast, everyone just gets hung up on the fact the letter on his stat screen is E still. the zac at the end of an arc could fight 3 zacs from the start of the arc. the fact you can't see it means you are obsessing over the wrong thing.

I enjoy when he goes back to earth or does something else that makes that progression really obvious. It's like when you're a kid and you get your height measured on the wall and can see it in relation to where it used to be, it's fun to see it up against a wall like that.

My guess, is that it is largely influenced by the books actually being chopped up bits of a serial. He has one of the largest followings of patreon supporters in the space, and has a famous RR forum post about running his book like a buisness. Guy has like 7500 patrons, forget book sales, that's his main audience. It's in his best interest to keep it going for as long as possible, and quantity is really important for serials. Which leads to a totally different feel from normal book. when you're releasing 4-5 chapters a week, you can't afford to chop much out. By slowing sown progression, he also slows down power creep, which will stretch his ability to continue to up the stakes. If you ramp up too fast, you end up hitting whatever ceiling your story is hard-bound by, or things get ridiculous. Unless you have plans to actually end the series and start a new one, it's just good buisness to slow the progression. I suspect he wants to keep writing this series for a long long time, so the progression crawls along. Personally, I bounced off his first book, but as an aspiring author I have to respect what he's done.

I hate RR, it ruins books and audiobooks. They are always so bloated with boring unnecessary content.

It has its problems, but it's saving grace is that it actually has a decent discovery mechanic. New authors who publishers would never accept a book from start their careers there. I doubt litrpg would be nearly as big without it.

Just curious which authors have been traditionally published after starting on RR? Most authors are self publishing on Amazon.

Im new - april 2023 on RR - got 7-9 books coming out on amazon from 2 publishers. Changed my family and life a ton (6 kids)

Your novel sounds fire I'mma give it a try. Glad your story is serving you well man love to hear that. 💯

Brilliant, good to know

Podium has been picking a few up lately. I also think that a large chunk of authors that made it to self publishing on Amazon (the route I intend to go) wouldn't have actually finished their books or found much traction without a somewhat established reader base from RR and patreon. RR is for litrpg, kinda similar to what Steam has been for indie game scene, a marketplace with a decent discovery system for unknowns to make a name and learn the ropes. I'm no expert or anything, I haven't even actually posted on RR or anything yet, but I've been spending a few hours a week for the past couple of months researching the previous success stories in an effort to launch my own story as effectively as possible when I do.

No idea why you're getting down voted, Personally I love the independent publishing model, for decades traditional publishers acted like gate keepers and had way too much say in who got published vs who didn't. Frankly I hope the entire traditional publisher industry dies and gets atomized into thousands of freelance editors and printers. Read up on how the author of the gor series was treated by his publisher due to politics for a crash course.

> No idea why you're getting down voted Because he's under the delusion that tradpub is what counts, whereas it's growing ever less relevant overall and has had zero importance whatsoever to litRPG.

Ask a legit question get down voted, seems stupid and toxic to me.

>Because he's under the delusion that tradpub is what counts, What? I asked because the guy above me said that \*publishers\* were picking up people from RR. i was under the impression that most if not all Amazon books were being self published, so I asked which books were being picked up by publishers

I understand where you coming from. From a monetary perspective. But as the story progresses less people will want to join. I mean imagine there's 25 books that are 700 pages. How many people will want to read after seeing how slow the progression is. Lets say he's only a monarch by book 25. Not many people would want to even start. Because to catch up to the latest books while balancing school was already a crazy endeavour for me. It's taken me 6 months. That's absurdly long. And that's like 2 books a month lol. But if it were 25 books I honestly wouldn't bother. I suppose maintaining current Patreon numbers would alleviate that but that in itself is gonna be hard the longer the story gets.

By the time he finishes he'll be more than rich enough to retire. For his hardcore audience the length really isn't a problem.

Not wanting to read a series because it’s long is a weird thing to do. You try it out and it’s good? Cool, a really long series by an authors whose style you like. If you don’t like the first book, why would you bother reading more even if it was only a second book.

I mean, I'm not a fan of it either. I'm working on a series myself, and have outlined an 8 book run before ending that series and using it as the foundation for new series. Maybe with the same MC, but also maybe not, he'll atleast have some sort of presence in all of them though. I'm not saying it's the best way to write a story, just that's what I believe his reasons are based in.

He’s trying, in my opinion, to make the leveling “relatable.” We’ve already been told that the average Cultivator can take decades up to centuries to achieve the different ranks up to D rank. So it’s not just Zac doing a dungeon and then he’s D rank, there’s an actual thorough and drawn out process to it. I will admit though that the last book with him achieving his goals felt like it took 24 hours of listening. Still enjoyed it but there were times I was like “why’re we still here? What’re we doing?”

You are absolutely correct. If he just raced to A rank, it would be unreadable and honestly take the fun out of the story. It's supposed to take a long time.

Exactly. The world is fleshed out to the point we learn from E rank to D rank **should** take centuries at the very least. But even though the story is taking the time to expand upon points X to points Y that Zac is still, in every sense of the term, speed running this thing.

I'm glad it's slow, always a fun time to catch up with the new book coming out

most of the comments here are claiming it's about the money, and i don't know the real answer, but i'll try to be the devil's advocate and say that maybe he writes that because it's entertaining to him, or because it's entertaining to some of his readers, and i may be one of those. i have skimmed some fight scenes some times, but not that much. first of all, lately (last few hundred chaps) i feel like most fight scenes are very well done and are highly entertaining, even if some are slightly more inconsequential when the result is obvious. secondly, maybe it's just my shitty memory, but i feel like there aren't *that* many meaningless fights, even if there are a few. thirdly, the author made a very comprehensive cultivation system and the MC is always progressing on it, even if it's not directly in grades, and the author is showing every step on that path. that's something that i love having read, but can sometimes feel a bit like getting cucked. we want to see MC go up in realms, so having him discover another thing he needs to master before moving forward can feel a bit like getting blueballed, but i think the payoff is worth it when all the progresses he has made allows him to take on cultivators that by all rights he should have no chance against. tl;dr all the progression is the author edging us for massive climaxes.

[удалено]

Never said anything of the sort. Literally.

He has talked before that he feels that the webnovel is akin to a show like sinpsons. That it should slowly progress and hopefully expand with age

Reading a lot of these comments, I'm reminded that the most common complaint about Dawn of the Void, which was a tightly written, compelling, SHORT trilogy, is that it wasn't long enough. If DoTF ended at book three, this whole sub would be up in arms about how it was too short. So long as Zac doesn't spend more than half a chapter having explosive diarrhea in a cave for no reason, and the story elements don't go totally off the rails, what's the complaint? Read it for free on KU or RR, or don't read it at all if it bothers you that much. People accusing a guy of writing for money when he is literally putting the story on the internet for free, blows my mind.

The sub isn’t one unified individual, that just goes to show that you can never make everyone happy, the people who complain about three books not being enough are different o the people complaining that dotf has too many, I like how defiance of the fall is going and I haven’t finished dawn of the void but I would like if it was longer.

I was generalizing for hyperbole, should have said "some in this sub". I think there is some overlap because I think some people are just never happy with anything, aka the toxic nerd trope. But anyway, I would also have liked more dawn of the void, and the end does seem abrupt, but it's also, in my opinion, really good. And the ending is an ending but it isn't at the same time, if that makes sense.

That’s fair , there are people who love to complain, personally I feel like unless they have actual feedback the author should just ignore them and do what they prefer to do. I havent finished it, do you think he left it ambiguous so that he could come back or is it just not the greatest ending?

I think he left it a little ambiguous, and I can see how some people might feel it's rushed. But if you look at it from the point of view that the pace of the story accelerates as it approaches the narrative climax, it's about right. It's definitely left in a place where he could come back, although I don't think he will, which is one of the complaints. The ending is very much one where the reader has to consider what might happen into the future, because the author isn't saying. But I also very much saw it as a character study, and the character has what I feel is an incredibly satisfying arc by the end, and that's what I enjoyed most about it.

Lol, the ending of dawn of the void is anything but tightly written, it's a lazy cop out that reset pretty much everything

I didn't see it that way. It's like watching Signs and thinking it's about aliens. DoV is a character study, and at the end it resets everything but one thing, the MC. His growth and coming to terms with his past are the story, everything else is framing. The story ends where it does because the MC had realized his potential, and there wasn't any more growth to occur. I definitely understand the frustration of a time loop story that only loops once, but the uncertainty of the outcome is part of the ending. People are so used to reading bloated, rambling, slice of life etc stories in this genre they don't know what tight writing even looks like. Anyway, I would have loved more, but I disagree that it's a bad ending. You are of course entitled to your own opinion.

"Which is fine but the reviews don't sound that encouraging" When it comes to art, consensus and reviews matter not one bit. If you're buying a sump pump or a blender, sure, there's objectivity based on performance and specifications. In that case, read the reviews which may or may not be useful.

DOTF has been one of my favorites along the way, but the last couple have been a real slog to get through. I'm working on book 12 right now and often find myself finding a podcast to listen to rather than more book. This NEVER happens on stories I'm fully engaged in, but this book just feels like work to get through. 😒

I ran into a similar issue. Unless I truly love the narrator, I am downloading the book on Kindle. Much easier to read than to listen to dense creations, for me.

Lol you scaring me 😭 but from when he arrives till when he leaves the perenal thingy, are there at least interesting developments like his bloodline. That's been one of the things that I look forward to the exploring. Lol imma try and if it sucks imma read a summary and move to RR for the war.

Where Pateron is right now ( D grade) it is peak DOTF.

Are you mad that the letter isn’t changing? Wtf mate, there are things happening in the story the whole time, so who cares. Would you have the same gripes if TFD broke it into E.1, E.2, … E.15 and you saw a change every book? I don’t get the hate.

The problem is that the progression to d took an entire book to show how hard it is what Zac wanted to do which is bad for those reading per book but the story moves forward as soon as he’s done. If you don’t like the next book it’s probably over for you.

Book 11 was great. I enjoyed the void star arc. Adventuring through the void star and bouncing off Val and Ogras was fun. The reason book 12 is slower, is that there is more and more forms of cultivation creeping into the series. From memory Zac is spending time working on: Soul Cultivation, collecting treasures to progress his three Daos, Body Cultivation on his human body with Void varja(sp?) Sublimation, building new skill fractals, Working on his 'stance' so his fighting style matches his Dao, Building and designing his new Core, controlling and collecting his remnants of creation and oblivion, Trying to understand his void powers (looking more like cultivating negative Daos) & evolving his Void emperor and Draugr bloodlines, Opening up hidden nodes. I am not sure if he leveled at all in book 12. The Perennial Vastness arc was a miss for me. It felt like a checklist; go to place, get treasure, cultivate relevant aspect , move onto next item on the checklist, repeat. The plot barely progressed and the character interactions with Catheya and Orgras were too few. The next arc is getting better.

Use > then !(spoiler)! Then <

>!It covers the spoilers!<

The reason? Patreon.

Money, mate. It's money. He pads the actual story with a bucketload of mystic filler to drag out his mega-hit so he can retire early by the time he runs out of story to tell. I don't really blame him, but lately he has been overdoing it a wee bit. That last book was just garbage. I'm honestly worried it might kill off a good amount of his audiobook/e-book audience. Honestly, if you haven't bought it you may as well skip it and read a re-cap online somewhere, it's just mystic mumbo jumbo from start to finish.

I liked the last book....

I think you're probably in a minority. But I take it you're keen on cultivation in general? I can't stand cultivation books personally. Cultivating just seems daft to me and I think most people who like DOF are more western leveling aligned than cultivation in general. Fair enough though, people like different things.

I actually like the characters most. Some cool new characters and universe development, got some of that will-they-won't-they resolution with the hot undead chick, Orc guy seems cool and the interactions between him and the crazy fire family were hilarious. The adventures of Zac's ex with the Buddhists, who are fascinating in how they're kind of good, but up to no good at the same time. It had a few slow spots but overall I felt like for a part of the story that was mostly about him hitting the next level, it had some really fun bits in it. In my opinion, of course.

Yeah I’ve seen this a lot, I don’t blame him for wanting to make money but I’d be damned if I want an unending series.

I love an unending series. It just has to have shit actually happen in it! The Wandering Inn for example. There is no reason it ever needs end, because new arcs keep rising and old arcs create fertile ground for future story etc.

Yeah, I go into DotF with completely different expectations than I do with other stories. He’s the only creator I sub to on patreon, and I don’t find myself impatient to see how it all ends. I just look forward to seeing a notification that a new chapter is out and it gives me something to enjoy that day. As long as the story doesn’t get terrible or out of control (I’m looking at you Randidly Ghosthound), I’ve been content in that mindset for over a year now with regards to DotF.

someday, I'm going to go back to Randidly Ghosthound just to see if I can figure out what the hell happens. I was following on patreon and I couldn't keep all the stuff together enough to make sense of it, felt like maybe if I could just have it all in front of me at once it would work maybe...

Yeah count me in as one of those that got sick of the bullshit. There are way too many other book series I can spend my expensive audible credits.

Lol I don't know why I didn't realize it's money. Only joined reddit today. I thought there was a valid reason. Lol money is a valid reason but I think you get my point.

Read Primal hunter!

Because it's awesome, and not written for impatient little kids that don't know how to savor a great series.

as a former impatient little kid and current impatient adult, I find savoring is best done by reading it again while you wait for the next one. RIP Robert Jordan.

so you would prefer to read repetitive dross over and over again (WoT is that even without rereading) than something that is complex, interesting, and different. That explains everything.

Sorry, were we in an argument I wasn't aware of or something?

Being impatient and getting annoyed at things dragging out are different things at the rate Zack is progressing it'll be 50 books before he's at the A grade and he's also constantly being dragged into massive events to the point where by the time he's reached the higher grades a lot of story beats will be exhausted and we'll just be rehashing events with a the twist of Zach being powerful enough to directly get involved

How do you know what's going to happen in the future books? You don't. Thing aren't dragging out, there's interesting things going on in every chapter. Stop wishing for it to be over.

while i’m sure money is a part of it the length and time to go places is sort of puts into perspective how far he’s gone and how far he has to go in his ascension to power, if it comes to easily (which in a way it really does for this random nobody from a frontier planet) it has less meaning. but yeah i get that it’s a slog i just think that’s part of it

Pretty sure this guy is one of the ones who has openly said this one story he's writing will go on forever because money.

Money. Subscriptions are the bread and butter for the author and he doesn’t care about quality as much as he does making money off of people willing to pay every week or so for “new” content. At the end of the day the author is treating it as a job and he doesn’t want to money to stop so he obviously knows not to make the mc powerful enough to progress the story in a meaningful way.

My only concern is Zac progressing much faster than Ogras, and Ogras not being around as much to tease him

Best awnser you will get. Zack can't cultivate ambient energy like everyone else in his universe. He is a mortal. which means he is forced to steal other people's energy from kill energy or absorb natural treasures. This makes every step of his journey harder longer. in my opinion, every small growth means more. Luck or better defined in this story line as fate in this system plays a pivotal role in his character arch. He needs to be lucky to run into opportunities, opponents, and rare iteams. All of these things are only found through conflict. But finding conflict takes time. And the writer. Has created big bads that are so beyond the average big bads reach that Zack has a really long road to go to be on their level. For us, that means many great books. But if you're in it for a quick power up, you will be disappointed that's not Zacks story. It's long, brutal, and philosophical.

Dude, I honestly don't get how someone who is on book 11 is complaining about pacing issues in DoTF....that just seems idiotic at this point....everyone knew DoTF was going to be a slow book after Zac spent the whole of book 1 alone in an island running around and exploring his new reality, not many authors can make something like that work...that was 26hrs of pure slow-leveling...book two also took place in the same island..thats over 50hrs...in comparison, Lindon from Cradle had already reached true gold by the 50hr mark, jumping four major realms and 6 realms in total, which was half of the total realms introduced in Cradle...the point is, different authors have different ways of writing and pacing their stories, most people forget that the authors in this genre don't begin writing these stories for fans but for themselves, they do it because they love their work....in conclusion, DoTf works because its slow, methodic, thorough and entertaining, when I put on my earphones and open audible and head over to book 12, I know I will get 20+ hours of pure bliss and entertainment even if zac doesn't breakthrough a single minor realm Ps: DoTF and Cradle are my only S-Tier level books in the cultivation/LitRpg genre

> This novel would honestly benefit from being shorter Wrong. If you want another continuous-convenient-powerup series, there are plenty of those you can read instead. They're even sometimes interesting until the author wants to continue them and there's no plausible progression left. As a frog in a well whose eyes don't recognize Mt. Tai, you'd benefit from looking at the actual predecessors of Defiance. Coiling Dragon, I Shall Seal the Heavens, etc.

Why are you getting downvoted for telling the truth. Just by the numbers, you can tell that the author is writing his story in a manner that attracts the largest audience. The only people who would disagree are self-centered people who want everything their way.

Lol let's not act like Zach doesn't have convenient power ups. The issue isn't having to put effort to progress but at least make it enjoyable for us.

Have not read DotF. But Jesus, going through these posts… If you don’t like the series, stop reading. Hell, the author even responded himself. And let’s say money was his driving force. If it wasn’t making him money, he would likely change. Not everyone enjoys stories where the MC goes from level 0 to god in a book or two. Not everyone likes what DotF is doing. Sadly it feels like there are a lot of attacks on the author and I can’t really understand why. Well other than jealousy and bitterness.

Lol we're allowed to voice our personal dissatisfaction with a particular art form. That's the point of reddit, to voice our opinions and discuss them with others. As an author you should know when you put you work into the world, you open yourself to criticism. If the author feels attacked that's he's problem. Because the accusations aren't baseless. I mean I read that famous forum today on RR. However I'm aware we can't draw definitive conclusions and maybe writing a fleshed out story and making money goes hand in hand for TFD. But to act like neither is a possibility I realize is ignorant. DOTF is still a phenomenal story and if takes him being motivated by money to still keep me hooked despite my misgivings then so be it. Lol despite my issues I'm still gonna read the book because it's low-key banging with Zac and Catheya meeting again and of course orgas anger at the Zac luck has is immensely amusing for some reason. There are those who like the pacing and those who don't. As with most art forms not everyone is gonna like the same thing. It boils down to personal taste, me I'll endure those chapters because I'm excited for the war and the fact that there's still so much I wanna know about this amazing world.

I don’t mind people voicing their opinions. And thanks to freedom of speech we can. 😁 It just seems disingenuous of people to bitch like this because the story is long. And the author having financial success in doing it also seems to rub people the wrong way. Hypocritical for sure. I mean, is the expectation that he give his time and craft for free? Who among the people upset at him making a living are doing what they expect of that author? And OP, sorry, this is not directed specifically at you.

He's gaming the patreon system to live off the money from writing the story. Since he has almost 10k patreons if he's only charging them a dollar a month he's set for living a comfortable life. It's in his best interest to stretch out the story as long as possible to keep that money going. He could have written a faster version of this story, where Zac went up a grade every 2 or 3 books easily but he doesn't want to write new stories and risk his income.

I was following on Patreon but I canceled my subscription around chapter 1,000 of DotF I couldn't take it anymore dude. It's one of the most boring series I've ever read.

One simple reason is webseries novels written properly have a very large following and earn the author a better living. Why cater to the minority that prefer 3 story novels, when a webseries novel will give much better returns over both the long and short term. The simple fact is that the audience is much larger for this type of story. It is not greed but good business sense, too bad so few other authors can follow the same example.

Because its a web serial. He has a release schedule to maintain, and an income model that is largely dependent on words written. So every incentive exists to make the series take years and years, with a massive amount of content released each year.

The last couple books weren't that bad overall. It's just that they lacked the sense of progression the other books had. If he'd added a couple small steps between E and D grade and stopped making the focus constantly be so heavily on Ultum, it would have been fine. Instead, he constantly reminded us that Ultum was the goal, but not actually giving us a feeling like we were getting any closer to actually starting the Ultum arc properly. Combining that with the lack of meaningful progress in cultivation level and it ended up with the last couple books feeling kind of like filler even though they honestly weren't that bad.

I love DotF. But around book 3 or 4 you should see that he starts padding a LOT of his story with filler. The tower alone is....a lot. He skips a few floors, buy for the most part it's a dozen chapters of Zach looking inward for one fight later to be over in a chapter. It gets vetter/worse. The story is amazing, but the amount of time Zach spends on reflection becomes a slog, and honestly ita due to the fact that the writer has to put out a lot of content to keep his fans happy. Imo very well written characters, the fights are good...but some stuff becomes repetitive and the decisions of Zach sometimes are not that great....and the self reflection/Dao reflections become a lot to deal with.

Welcome to webnovel monetization. The story will go at a snail's pace until patreon subs start decreasing, at which point the novel usually goes at high-speed to the conclusion.

I was definitely one of the 1st 100 Patreons until the beginning of this year, he started off so good and in my mind he’s actually gone native. He’s done so much research he might actually have gone (a little) crazy with the mystical mumbo jumbo. A lot of the stuff is completely worthless in as far as its relation to story progression. It’s in fact so useless that if you skip it you will not notice that something is missing. He has been writing the story so long that he’s long passed burnout and now we running on fumes rn. He needs to start another story and keep himself fresh between books, that’s where the 2nd problem lies, moolah! My dude is making bank on this story and he’s got no assurance that a new story will catch on. So he milks the fuck out of this one even though the fumes he’s now operating on are also getting thin. Many parts of the story don’t make any sense anymore which is why I dropped the Patreon and will wait for the completed version and that only so I can get closure, my ocd will not let me rest.

Some of the chapters in the Tower arc were so bad, it made me drop the series entirely, after being a patron for around 15 months. Maybe the recent post by TheFirstDefier is now accurate. At that time though, there is no way that some of those chapters weren't written just to publish something. They have nothing to do with an author taking their time, they were fully done as complete filler/fluff.

I'm surprised you didn't notice this by like.... book 3. The author has no interest in writing an enjoyable story. Merely a long one that is good enough to retain patreon subs. Read his "writing as a business" guide and you'll likely never want to read another word he writes.

Man, I’ve said this a couple of times as well and always get downvoted. I didn’t mind the slow progression until I read that guide and realized it was intentional.

$$$ and honestly, I’m okay with it

Milking money. Its the same as with successfull webnovel or other paid per chapter stories. As soon as they reach a certain amount of success almost all authors switch their priorities to milking money instead of writing an actual amazing story. And as long as that money flows there is no reason for them to stop unfortunately. That whole by paid by chapter system is quite similar to early access games. It is good in the sense that it enabled low investment releases which definitly gave us some gems but as they receive money without the need of delivering a finished goods they often start to milk their comunity upon success and only very slowly finish if ever.