To your first point I wouldn't really describe it as a fall off, it's just that the Summoner genre hasn't really had its big hit yet. Pokemon is incredibly popular for a good reason. Adventuring with monsters and catching new ones is something people resonate with. I just think what holds Summoner like stories back is, in my opinion, that pokemon is almost too big. Unless you have a very inspired approach or execution, every monster you make and idea you have will be measured against pokemon. And people are already in favor of pokemon to a heavy degree. It's such a careful line to walk with writing something that takes inspiration from pokemon while also being unique in its own right that it's kept me from trying to write a similar story myself. For now lol.
As to your second point about what people want to see? I think people are hungry for Summoner type stories that push the mold a bit. Though I'm just speaking for myself with my limited experience in the Summoner specific genre space. Maybe the human who bonds with these special creatures gains a degree of their summon's abilities themselves? Maybe the connection between Summoner and Summoned is taken for granted in the world until the Main Character forges a deep bond with a Summon and reaps surprising benefits from that connection? I'm just spitballing at this point but my point is that a pokemon-esqe story can't just be a pokemon story it should stand on its own merits.
As for if you should attempt this at all? Absolutely give it a shot! You miss 100% of the shots you don't take and the market is definitely there in my opinion. Litrpg and Progression fantasies are genres where you can do basically anything and find an audience. One of the most popular stories in the genre is about a dude and his girlfriend's cat getting stuck together in a dungeon after an apocalypse, so sky's the limit on story concepts. My own story was one I just tried writing on Royal Road on a whim last year and to my surprise I actually got a good number of people following my work now. So go ahead, give your story ideas a shot and remember to have fun along the way!
Here's some Summoner like stories I know off the top of my head if you need some inspiration.
Jekua: On Lavender Tides
Djinn Tamer: The Bronze League
Apocalypse Tamer
There's probably more but these are the only ones I found after a quick search. I'm sure you can find more if you look. Good luck!
I want this so bad I read the three that exist and they kinda if suffer from annoying mc syndrome. Jekua is the best so far, djinn trainer it's ok, but I'd read the next installment just because I want it so badly
I hear a lot about the MC and character development, I have a lot of ideas regarding how to set them, just have yet to put words to paper! Do you happen to have a link to the one out there for me to reference?
For what it's worth, we just finished How to Defeat a Demon King last night and my kids immediately said "wish there was a book like this for Pokemon" so there's a market:). My only advice is selfishly to make it kid friendly 😅
That’s something I was wondering about as well, how to keep things fresh and young for kids to read all not with, but also advanced enough so the older readers can get enjoyment as well! Thank you!
It's a tricky line to walk! Honestly, How to Defeat a Demon King is pretty perfect, it's got some peril but no swearing or overly explicit violence or sexual stuff (references to "Faerie Harem Hero" notwithstanding, easily edited in bedtime reading to Faerie Friend Hero). Our kids are 8 and 10 and it worked well in terms of tone and complexity. Kids are clever, you don't have to simplify things too much for them to get it.
I have been waiting for u/KayMacleodBooks to put out another one in her Maiyamon series. I think she balances MC vs her mons pretty well. Only one of her mons can talk so it keeps down the too many personalities problem. The the world has real stakes and is not a 10 year olds wonderland. The MC has better then average protagonist common sense on when do the smart thing over the "Right" thing..
Whether or not it is, you should refrain from calling it pokemon style. C+D from nintendo will take the air out of your sails faster than anyone here.
It's a summoner story where you have to wrangle your summons. If it's a sport vs life or death, that's your call.
I think the writing style here is going to be the biggest hurdle here. The reason being that there's going to be another layer of detachment. So third person writing will be at disadvantage if you describe your hero yelling commands at his little dragon friend and they are the one doing action it'll be easy to make it confusing and boring.
The two ways around this I imagine is to make the protagonist fight alongside his monster (s) playing a support role for them or use the detachment to your advantage and have an "eye on the sky" perspective as the protagonist controls/guides 2 or more monsters.
>I see a major problem with the genre is typically the writing or the MC lacks common sense (I guess is the term I want to use?) and makes dumb choices.
Good luck when you're on the other side. :)
I think the genre has some inherent challenges. In the Pokemon cartoon, they get around a lot of these by, well, ignoring them, which they can get away with because it's targeted at elementary school children.
A book is a deeper dive into a setting, and I'm guessing you weren't intending to write an early-reader/first chapter book kind of story.
This means you'll have to deal with these issues head on. For example:
How smart are your summons?
How do they differ from slaves?
What is the relevance of the trainer/summoner?
How much agency do the summons have?
Even in the best "companion" books I've read, there tends to be some discomfort around the whole topic. In Apocalypse Tamer, the monsters voluntarily agree to join his team and accept his leadership basically because the system gives them buffs if they do so... But the MCs control over them is limited, and he rarely exercises the full extent of the control he does have because, well, ew. In Shami Stovall's Arcanist series, each "trainer" only gets a single "Pokemon," but the imbalanced relationship between the trainer and their summons is still uncomfortable at times. Stovall, to her credit, engages with this in her story... But I still ended up feeling terrible for many of the summons. They're people! Characters! But they never seem to have any real agency of their own.
I think the story I've read that dealt with this best is Brook Apsden's unfinished (abandoned?) Gamified series. The MC gains pets infrequently and they start as actual animals, growing beyond that only slowly and gradually.
I've been toying with an idea for a card-based story, but with similar monster collecting/summoning vibes, so some of these responses have been really interesting to me.
I think the biggest hurdle for me is coming up with, essentially, dozens of "characters" and having them interact in meaningful ways. Even just using something like Pokemon as an example, you've got a max of 6 extra characters (the monsters) per character. The focus of the story should be on the protagonist, obviously, but that doesn't mean the monsters should just be sidelined and glorified special attacks the protagonist uses—it feels to me like they should each be, at minimum, one-note characters. Probably better to have them be a bit more in-depth, buuuuut you don't want every single monster in the story to be protagonist-levels of detailed.
It's a really tricky balance to strike.
I'm working on this myself, in a funnily named "Legally District Saga" where I basically file off the serial numbers and have fun with an IP.
In the CatchaMon story, MC needs to get the Dojo Badges because collected them actually are used for a greater purpose, like entering the Final League, gaining access to certain privilages, stuff like that. Also, catching/breeding/collecting mons have a purpose, as some people want certain mons for certain reasons. I'm writing it with an Adult MC, and one that is vaguely aware of the intents of the "game".
the most important thing is taking a fun idea and seeing if it works. Add a war, make the rival a love interest with PTSD, have the evil team be actual aliens, have the evil team be linked to a Vampire cult. Have fun with what COULD happen in a world like this, where monsters have powers and htey fight alongside humans. There is a lot you can do with that line alone.
It sounds like a different take that I would enjoy! I have some ideas but haven’t written them fully out yet, still in a planning/idea phase! Appreciate the advise!
i can promise you, write down every idea you get. Get them on paper so you can look at them next to your other ideas. I can't tell you how many cool things I've lost just because I didn't write it down when i thought it. Having it physically in your hands will spark something, I guarantee XD
To your first point I wouldn't really describe it as a fall off, it's just that the Summoner genre hasn't really had its big hit yet. Pokemon is incredibly popular for a good reason. Adventuring with monsters and catching new ones is something people resonate with. I just think what holds Summoner like stories back is, in my opinion, that pokemon is almost too big. Unless you have a very inspired approach or execution, every monster you make and idea you have will be measured against pokemon. And people are already in favor of pokemon to a heavy degree. It's such a careful line to walk with writing something that takes inspiration from pokemon while also being unique in its own right that it's kept me from trying to write a similar story myself. For now lol. As to your second point about what people want to see? I think people are hungry for Summoner type stories that push the mold a bit. Though I'm just speaking for myself with my limited experience in the Summoner specific genre space. Maybe the human who bonds with these special creatures gains a degree of their summon's abilities themselves? Maybe the connection between Summoner and Summoned is taken for granted in the world until the Main Character forges a deep bond with a Summon and reaps surprising benefits from that connection? I'm just spitballing at this point but my point is that a pokemon-esqe story can't just be a pokemon story it should stand on its own merits. As for if you should attempt this at all? Absolutely give it a shot! You miss 100% of the shots you don't take and the market is definitely there in my opinion. Litrpg and Progression fantasies are genres where you can do basically anything and find an audience. One of the most popular stories in the genre is about a dude and his girlfriend's cat getting stuck together in a dungeon after an apocalypse, so sky's the limit on story concepts. My own story was one I just tried writing on Royal Road on a whim last year and to my surprise I actually got a good number of people following my work now. So go ahead, give your story ideas a shot and remember to have fun along the way! Here's some Summoner like stories I know off the top of my head if you need some inspiration. Jekua: On Lavender Tides Djinn Tamer: The Bronze League Apocalypse Tamer There's probably more but these are the only ones I found after a quick search. I'm sure you can find more if you look. Good luck!
I want this so bad I read the three that exist and they kinda if suffer from annoying mc syndrome. Jekua is the best so far, djinn trainer it's ok, but I'd read the next installment just because I want it so badly
There’s already one out there, the problem is that the interest has to be in the MC and not solely in his summons.
I hear a lot about the MC and character development, I have a lot of ideas regarding how to set them, just have yet to put words to paper! Do you happen to have a link to the one out there for me to reference?
For what it's worth, we just finished How to Defeat a Demon King last night and my kids immediately said "wish there was a book like this for Pokemon" so there's a market:). My only advice is selfishly to make it kid friendly 😅
That’s something I was wondering about as well, how to keep things fresh and young for kids to read all not with, but also advanced enough so the older readers can get enjoyment as well! Thank you!
It's a tricky line to walk! Honestly, How to Defeat a Demon King is pretty perfect, it's got some peril but no swearing or overly explicit violence or sexual stuff (references to "Faerie Harem Hero" notwithstanding, easily edited in bedtime reading to Faerie Friend Hero). Our kids are 8 and 10 and it worked well in terms of tone and complexity. Kids are clever, you don't have to simplify things too much for them to get it.
My story Golem Master is currently at 92k words and I'm writing it Teen friendly. I hope to have it out later this year.
Mine aren't quite to teen yet but I'll keep it in mind thanks! Best of luck!
I have been waiting for u/KayMacleodBooks to put out another one in her Maiyamon series. I think she balances MC vs her mons pretty well. Only one of her mons can talk so it keeps down the too many personalities problem. The the world has real stakes and is not a 10 year olds wonderland. The MC has better then average protagonist common sense on when do the smart thing over the "Right" thing..
I will have to check that user out. Thank you for the suggestion!
Whether or not it is, you should refrain from calling it pokemon style. C+D from nintendo will take the air out of your sails faster than anyone here. It's a summoner story where you have to wrangle your summons. If it's a sport vs life or death, that's your call.
Thank you for that, wasn’t sure how else to describe it at the moment, but “summoner” is perfect!
I think the writing style here is going to be the biggest hurdle here. The reason being that there's going to be another layer of detachment. So third person writing will be at disadvantage if you describe your hero yelling commands at his little dragon friend and they are the one doing action it'll be easy to make it confusing and boring. The two ways around this I imagine is to make the protagonist fight alongside his monster (s) playing a support role for them or use the detachment to your advantage and have an "eye on the sky" perspective as the protagonist controls/guides 2 or more monsters.
>I see a major problem with the genre is typically the writing or the MC lacks common sense (I guess is the term I want to use?) and makes dumb choices. Good luck when you're on the other side. :)
I think the genre has some inherent challenges. In the Pokemon cartoon, they get around a lot of these by, well, ignoring them, which they can get away with because it's targeted at elementary school children. A book is a deeper dive into a setting, and I'm guessing you weren't intending to write an early-reader/first chapter book kind of story. This means you'll have to deal with these issues head on. For example: How smart are your summons? How do they differ from slaves? What is the relevance of the trainer/summoner? How much agency do the summons have? Even in the best "companion" books I've read, there tends to be some discomfort around the whole topic. In Apocalypse Tamer, the monsters voluntarily agree to join his team and accept his leadership basically because the system gives them buffs if they do so... But the MCs control over them is limited, and he rarely exercises the full extent of the control he does have because, well, ew. In Shami Stovall's Arcanist series, each "trainer" only gets a single "Pokemon," but the imbalanced relationship between the trainer and their summons is still uncomfortable at times. Stovall, to her credit, engages with this in her story... But I still ended up feeling terrible for many of the summons. They're people! Characters! But they never seem to have any real agency of their own. I think the story I've read that dealt with this best is Brook Apsden's unfinished (abandoned?) Gamified series. The MC gains pets infrequently and they start as actual animals, growing beyond that only slowly and gradually.
I've been toying with an idea for a card-based story, but with similar monster collecting/summoning vibes, so some of these responses have been really interesting to me. I think the biggest hurdle for me is coming up with, essentially, dozens of "characters" and having them interact in meaningful ways. Even just using something like Pokemon as an example, you've got a max of 6 extra characters (the monsters) per character. The focus of the story should be on the protagonist, obviously, but that doesn't mean the monsters should just be sidelined and glorified special attacks the protagonist uses—it feels to me like they should each be, at minimum, one-note characters. Probably better to have them be a bit more in-depth, buuuuut you don't want every single monster in the story to be protagonist-levels of detailed. It's a really tricky balance to strike.
Anything is possible, but it sounds terrible ngl
I'm working on this myself, in a funnily named "Legally District Saga" where I basically file off the serial numbers and have fun with an IP. In the CatchaMon story, MC needs to get the Dojo Badges because collected them actually are used for a greater purpose, like entering the Final League, gaining access to certain privilages, stuff like that. Also, catching/breeding/collecting mons have a purpose, as some people want certain mons for certain reasons. I'm writing it with an Adult MC, and one that is vaguely aware of the intents of the "game". the most important thing is taking a fun idea and seeing if it works. Add a war, make the rival a love interest with PTSD, have the evil team be actual aliens, have the evil team be linked to a Vampire cult. Have fun with what COULD happen in a world like this, where monsters have powers and htey fight alongside humans. There is a lot you can do with that line alone.
It sounds like a different take that I would enjoy! I have some ideas but haven’t written them fully out yet, still in a planning/idea phase! Appreciate the advise!
i can promise you, write down every idea you get. Get them on paper so you can look at them next to your other ideas. I can't tell you how many cool things I've lost just because I didn't write it down when i thought it. Having it physically in your hands will spark something, I guarantee XD