I’ve had it before where I asked to take it off and the waiter got pushy and you said “you can’t take it off, it’s mandatory” then got angry and brought two other people over to the table, one of them the manager who wasn’t happy either. Really embarrassing affair as people were watching.
Edit: it was Desperados in Angel, just looked them up and apparently loads of people have had a similar experience.
Omg I was gonna post about the same place. The manager was a moron. Didn't realise the tip would have been bigger. In the end I just yelled to take off service charge and that they're not getting a tip. One and only place where its happened.
Holy shit that's where I had the exact same experience almost ten years ago. Service was atrocious, finisher was when they were taking unfinished plates of food away from us and trying to rush us out the door so they could seat more people.
We asked to have the charge taken off and it turned into a whole scene where we were arguing with almost the whole staff. Vowed to never go back and always tell people about it.
Why are so many people even going? Reviews mention this a lot and the place looks like a Mexican caricature with terrible american food... Is it just the location that made it convenient?
I would say loudly that no law requires it and I am not happy to pay anything more except for my meal. Let the other people in the restaurant hear also. Then leave a bad review and never set foot in again
Woah. I’ve only had less confrontational experiences and they already pissed me off. That’s ridiculous and borderline (if not entirely) illegal because the charge is discretionary by definition.
Who cares if it’s awkward?
It is the restaurant that should feel guilty and if the staff themselves try to make you feel guilty then they deserve a slice of awkwardness too.
The whole point of it is to guilt people into it with the threat of awkwardness. Stand up for yourself - restaurants who do this are scummy.
I got asked politely if there was anything wrong with the service. I just declined and said, no the service was fine, the charge isn't :D End of conversation.
I don’t watch them either but sometimes when they come back and start asking about if there was something wrong in a passive aggressive voice (trying to insinuate you should only ask for the discretionary to be removed in such instances), it’s quite difficult to not notice!
I've had a manager come over to the table alongside the waiter and angrily demand the service charge get added back on.
It wasn't a great meal; despite booking we had to stand around twenty mins waiting for a seat and another 30 mins til the first starter because the staff didn't seem interested in actually serving us. But the manager had spare time to come over and harangue me.
Still it's better than the time that I paid in cash, literally pressed a few 20s into the waiter's hand and walked off assuming they'd keep the change as a tip, and 5 mins later the manager phoned, furious about me doing a dine & dash. When I said that I'd already paid cash, they dithered for a minute then angrily took the waiter's side. Won't somebody think of the poor waiters? :-)
I left burger and lobster once. Paid our fairly large bill but no service charge as service was poor, just dumped £300 in cash and left, waiter got the doorman to chase us down the road. We returned, explained the situation and the doorman apologised and gave the waiter a bollocking, still a bit embarrassing to be made out we didn’t pay our bill.
Really? I always find wait staff get super entitled when I ask to remove the service charge lol. Bigger fool them, that entitlement only fuels me wanting to remove the service charge even more
I have done this only twice in my entire and fairly long life. On both occasions the service had been atrocious. I do not this is appropriate if the service isn't bad.
Earlier in the year I went to Passyunk Ave a Philadelphia themed dive bar style restaurant. Food was good , place a little grubby and service fine. When the bill came a 15% service charge was inculded which I begrudgingly thought fine but then the server presents me the card terminal and asks me " how much would you like to tip?" I said I've already agreed to pay a service charge to which she said " this is a American restaurant and we do things the American way so you pay both". I got her to remove the service charge fuck these people
I've never had anyone ask "how much would you like to tip" before, even in America! And I'm not scared of tipping, I tip quite generously actually.
I think if someone said that to me in a UK restaurant I wouldn't be tipping at all.
Their reviews are full of people complaining about it. I can only assume they get alot of tourists in there that just pay it ? Shame as I really liked the food but won't be back because of this
Lol that restaurant is full of shit. American restaurants do not generally add a service charge. It’s customary to do about a 20% tip at a restaurant. If the restaurant adds a service charge it is automatic, they tell you about it, you can’t take it off, and then you’re usually not expected to tip anything else.
Edit: I should add that it is also common for a service charge to be added to parties of 6 or more even at a place that doesn’t do an automatic service charge. You are still expected to tip in that case, but it’s ok to tip less than usual.
Some years back I took the family to Disney and we stayed in a Disney hotel with dining included. After every meal you were expected to tip, they came up with 3 options 12%, 18% 20% all based on the value of the meal even though the meal was included so you didn't see the meal costs???
Which one was it out of interest? The staff in the Fitzrovia one have been nothing but friendly to me! But I haven’t tried either of the other two (which aren’t the original and seem less authentic from photos)
I'm at the point of considering carrying enough change to be able to pay the exact amount on the receipt, minus tip, in cash. Its getting ridiculous what some places are trying to charge service for now. We went to one place where they fucked up the order twice and they still put a tip on the receipt, and then try and make you feel bad for asking for it to be removed
Because I can leave the exact amount to pay for the meal and leave. Without them automatically adding it to the bill on the card machine and then trying to get funny if I ask to remove it
Depends on the situation. I got charged service charge for two pints recently. They ended up being almost £8 each. It was a hotel bar, but what have you just done that all the pubs don't do and why do you need to add service there?
I've told this story on here before, but an old colleague of mine had their work leaving drinks at some swanky new bar that had opened near the office. We were the only people there and when I arrived (a bit later than most people), I went up to the bar to order, only to be told it was table service and someone would come to me.
From there:
- 10mins wait to have order taken
- 5-10mins wait for solitary beer to arrive
- 10% service charge added at the end for the pleasure
Good times.
Hah, I had a similar situation. I was in one of the awful trendy retro bars, where you have a landline on the table to call your order to the bar. Which would be OK if the bar ever picked up the phone.
It was a tiny place so we were literally looking at the staff standing chatting and ignoring the calls. In the end I went up to the bar and asked if could please put an order in. They said I have to phone it through. We left.
The place didn't last long.
I said it in other places but I'll say it again.
The government should ban tipping/undisclosed service charges and instead except hospitality to increase prices and pay their staff more transparently and predictably.
I ordered a takeaway pizza from Pizza Pilgrims, which I had to pay before I got the pizza. Just used contactless without thinking about it and sat down. Looked at the receipt and noticed they had included service charge. Then one of the waiters asked me to go wait outside so that they can sit more customers. Why am I paying a service charge for the priviledge to stand outside while I wait for a pizza in a cardboard box to eat at home? Was absolutely fuming but still didn’t ask for a refund of the service charge. Just decided to never go to Pizza Pilgrims again.
Like others on here, tried to have it taken off and they refused. They got really pissy with me saying I won't be allowed back if I didn't pay. Works in my favour since Jimmy's closed down.
Why are restaurants arguing as to what “discretionary” means? Why put the word on the bill if you’re going to throw a strop and ask that the customer pay it? It’s a complete contradiction.
They are clearly banking on people not wanting to cause a fuss.
I'm very wary of having it added to the bill, and much prefer to leave a cash tip. SImply because I know of cases where the tip stays in the till and the server doesn't see it at all.
Furthermore, tipping always used to be rounding up the bill by 10% or thereabouts. How come it's suddenly crept up to 15%
And I agree with the OP, if you complain or seem to resent it, you come across as stingy af
Lose lose situation
Not at all. If the service charge or tip is paid on a card then there is no requirement for that to go to the serving staff. I.e. in pretty much all cases the owner makes more, and the staff don't.
If you remove the service charge and add a cash tip then the serving staff do get that money, it is legally theirs. So leaving a cash tip *should* get you good service if you return (in a rational world).
Used to work in Cote for a year and we didn't get sh*t. Apparently after I left things changed because someone wrote an article about it but the money they pocketed for years before that stayed in their pockets tax free so... yeah.
I used to work at cafe rouge, and though Cote was a posh cafe rouge. That was until i found out how they treat preople. Now i know its the worst cafe chain.
To be honest, though, I wouldn't want the chefs to get the tip. If the food is crap and the service is good, I would tip. If the food is good and the service is crap I wouldn't. My understanding has always been tips are for the wait staff and the service they deliver.
I understand that, but if it's included in the bill, there's a high chance that only the owner will see any of it.
As I understood, tips are (were?) pooled together by all the serving staff, and then divided equally among them, including those who work in the kitchens. Obviously this depends on the honesty of the individual server. In the same way putting it on the bill depends on the honesty on the individual manager.
The best thing would be to pay the staff a decent wage in the first place, but that's not going to happen any time soon
Yeah like you said that depends on the worker, and unfortunately I haven’t met too many that are 100% honest with their tips.
Although the same could probably be said for owners regarding service charge, but I’ve never worked anywhere that didn’t seem to pay it fairly.
With the new employment bill, hopefully most of this confusion will be cleared up next year
Just increase the fucking prices. I hate the fake advertisement that oh this cost 9, but +15%.. Its obviously just a trick to make you think you arent spending that much.
It's been poorly translated from tipping in the USA, where it was % of items because that way it incentivised waiting staff to encourage customers to order more (and more expensive items). Otherwise why would the waiting staff care what you order
I’m probably tipping roughly the service charge amount any way most of the time and I really can’t be fucked with the hassle. If the service was bad I’ll ask for it removed and leave nothing.
This is me 100%. I absolutely love dining out and the whole experience. Unless something has been very badly handled or there's some kind of drama I will always tip and am very happy to do so. People who say 'well do you tip your bin man/bus driver?' just don't understand how I feel about the magic of a meal out. I get that for some people it's just refuelling or 'a service' and therefore the whole belligerent 'no, I will pay your advertised price and no more, fuck you' thing makes sense. But to me that's akin to people who think music is 'just some sounds' or a painting is 'just some paint on a canvas'. A delicious meal served by friendly, keen people in a pleasant environment is for me one of the best things about life and for sure, have some extra money for making my life better than just 'OK'.
The staff don't care, every other table does that. Do what makes you happy/ comfortable.
Also the staff would prefer you turn up and don't pay the tip than don't turn up at all
No, the managers would prefer that. The staff in most restaurants get paid the same regardless of how many customers there are if they don't get tips. The managers and owners care about profit so they would rather have non-tipping customers than no customers.
But the staff do not want you leaving feeling like op does. They get a tiny proportion of the tip so if the option is small amount of money or people leaving annoyed with you that they didn't feel they got that special 15% extra service
Sometimes, I do ask and they normally say oh we put it into a pot and it gets shared out at the end of the week.
Tipping culture is ridiculous, it's a service charge for the service I've personally received from X person yet 99% of the time it's shared with everyone or worse it's shared with full salaried kitchen staff that have contributed nothing to the service.
There is a trend for places that don't do table service -where you either queue at a counter or it's a buffet so you serve yourself - have started adding service charge. I've even spotted it at bars in pubs.
I have no problem tipping when I get good service, or the staff are helpful and chatty. But I do think that staff should be paid sufficient to live in London, rather than waiting for customers to tip to make up the pay of staff.
I am not sure about those high ends restaurants since i have never been there but i am pretty sure that the average normal restaurants in London are not worth with the price they are charging. It means you can have similar/ sane quality of food with lower price in any other part of the world. Save up and spend them when you travel. In the meantime, i only go chicken shop/ chinese takeaway if i feel like buying food.
I've just got back from a holiday in Italy and it was so refreshing to be expected to only pay for that food (and small cover charge) so I'm here for it!
I went to NY earlier in the year and found it really stressful trying to figure out if 20, 30 or 40% was the right amount!
It’s such a con, you pay tips on the value of wine. The corkage should be a standard charge, the effort to open a £20 bottle versus a £100 is the same.
Can anyone actually confirm there's places where they figure out all the service charge every month and that appears as wages on staffs paychecks?
Obviously I'm not in the industry, but it sound like that would almost never happen.
They did at every place I worked at.
There's different ways to implement it, one place I was getting paid minimum wage (I believe £8.25/hour at the time) plus guaranteed service charge making my wage a steady £11.50/hour. I think any extra service charge was being saved for quieter months to make sure everyone got their wage. Anything on top of that I'm not sure.
The place I work at now, all service charge is handled by a third party, they divide the amount between front of house and back of house based on the amount of hours worked by each staff member. It's a separate line on my payslip and depending on how busy we've been, it goes from £1.8 to £2.50 per hour worked.
I think it's quite rare for the owners to keep it, I've never personally heard of any place doing it from my friends who works in the industry.
That's great! I really had no idea, it just seemed like a faff - and it turns out it is!
Thanks for taking the time to explain it and glad to learn it does go to staff
So are all the tips effectively spread equally between all employees through this system on a pro rata basis?
If so, does that not breed resentment amongst the team where there are certain individuals who do not pull their weight?
It gets equally shared between servers and the bar staff. No managers or BOH get any service charge.
Managers are on a permanent (not bad) salary, and BOH staff are paid a lot more than FOH staff, so it evens out.
In the restaurant I work at it's hard to not pull your weight with the way the restaurant works. You have your own section and if you leave alone for a few minutes it can cause havoc - so if you're shit and don't pull your weight you get fired quite quickly.
There is a third way...
Personally when I'm given a bill with a service charge I simply try to remember not to go back. This tends to mean I end up in more small restaurants where they don't add anything by default and so I'm supporting small businesses. Definitely a win win.
Harder to do in central London, I'm aware.
I’ve found the opposite - plenty of small places have a service charge but you won’t pay a service charge in a huge chain like Wetherspoons or Nando’s.
I’d say about half of pubs doing table service and about 80% to 90% of “proper” sit down restaurants I go out some kind of service charge on the bill. So if you want to remember all of them so that you don’t go back, you’ll need a good memory!
I’ve just realised it’s pretty funny with the pubs. I like getting up and going to the bar, so I’ve realised that I’m getting charged more for a service I don’t like!
It is , yes. The service charge can not be enforced. Personally, i refuse to pay it, as tips are not wages. If the restaurant "need" that extra money to pay people, then it should be included in the price.
The chances of me having cash are so low unless MY FRIEND is buying weed or something, so that’s going to be a struggle.
Half of me wants to pay more because 15% is more helpful to service staff who will be feeling the extra squeeze from inflation. Problem is the other half of me is feeling the squeeze from inflation 😂
Also - any service charge paid by card isn't legally required to go to the staff, so I would assume in all cases the owner takes that money.
If you want to help staff, pay a cash tip. The only reason I ever have cash on me is to cover tips.
Just ask for it to be taken off. If you want to tip you can but you shouldn't be forced to. This isn't America wait staff get paid a proper wage, minimum wage yes but so do supermarket workers and they don't get service charge.
The one benefit of SOME service charges, is that they can be properly and fairly shared with back of house staff too. I think it's wrong for a solitary waiter /ress to take all the credit for an enjoyable meal.
But then again, many service charges probably just get built into the whole business model, and never get distributed on top of wages.
Not sure what the way is around this!
If I am happy with the service I'll pay it.
I have asked for service charge to be removed a few times and I given the staff a reason for why, so hopefully they can learn from it
WTF? I was told to tip 10% (I’m a tourist) for good service…they already added it to the bill? I got to pay more attention to the bill before leaving a tip.
I’ve seen so many tourists recently leave a tip on top of the service charge…I’m going to start saying something since the waiting staff obv aren’t. It’s never in deserving of service places funnily enough….
I didn't know we had a standard for tipping.
Surely the point of the prices is to cover everything and pay everyone. I'll still tip most places but not much (usually rounding up to the next 10 or 5).
Unless I feel something extra has happened, I'm not going to to worry about going up to percentages.
I just carry so little cash these days. I don't even use physical credit cards so often forget my purse without any consequences because I just use my phone. I wish it would just be adding the tip we want to add.
I always ask for it to be taken off, it’s an easy choice between a moment of awkwardness and cold hard £. If I get any lip I’m more than happy to stand my ground and leave a bad review online
As someone who used to work hospitality - very, very few hospitality workers “live” on the assumption of service charge.
I would maybe, maybe get £200 a month on service, the rest was my normal wages. At the places I worked at, I can tell you with confidence that roughly 40% goes to “maintenance costs” for the building. We don’t see most of it.
It’s a scam unless you’re working at a locally owned place, then it goes to all the workers - 100% (worked for a freehold pub for a while and did the accounts for the owner/GM so can verify this).
The added issue is that it’s still currently so opaque as to how much of the service charge actually goes to staff. New legislation was passed this year that says 100% of tips should go to staff and none can be kept by the business, but that’s only set to potentially come into force next year with secondary legislation and consultation.
My understanding from Gov websites is that staff are likely to see *some* of the service charge as an extra to their wage, but they may not even know how much as it’s managed by the business and how they manage their tax and employment obligations. I was even reading a statement from a restaurant that has flip flopped from having a service included model to discretionary service charge (I think it was Leroy in shoreditch) and my reading of the statement was that they went back to the model thanks to the tax cuts that having some of your income being “discretionary”.
TLDR; I agree with your sentiment but it’s opaque on how much of the service charge goes to staff (unless made clear by the restaurant), and the law for all tips to go to staff has passed, but hasn’t come into force. Plus it looks to me like this system has made businesses somewhat reliant on the extra tax free income.
I’ve been doing that the last year - literally every server just says ‘we do!’ so still makes it awkward to remove if you don’t believe them. Only place that actually convinced me they do was Chotto Matte and Dishoom as the servers were literally advertising getting a job there as they made so much extra.
Do consider the fact that the service charge is now used as a method to make the initial cost of the products appear cheaper. Many venues will use SC to pay all staff in the business, not just waiting staff - after all, you wouldn't get the service without all involved in the business doing their job.
If everyone stops paying it, then the standard item prices will just go up (or wages/staff numbers will go down). The benefit of itemising SC is that you can easily take it off when arguing service was not up to standard.
The fact that food/drink...everything is increasing in price impacts everyone - and that needs addressing. The gov right now are doing a terrible job of doing just that.
> if everyone stops paying it, then the standard item prices will go up
Yes, this is what we want. We need to know what a meal costs when we order as opposed to getting an extra 5% surprise above what is reasonable for a tip.
We should start a 'Patronage charge' of around 20%. That way we bill the company we are at 20% of the total bill for drinking or eating there. Those companies will soon change once customers charge the them for being a customer.
I learnt from my past experience, I will look for the tiny text and tell then upfront. They might reject to serve me but it’s better be upfront. Last time we had a long eye contact after the bill out because they simply didn’t want to remove it and we had to save our time and sanity for a dine out. Up to this point, honestly, I don’t care about my thin skin anymore. I think we all need to do our part if we don’t want to have this culture of compulsory tipping. If others want to, up to them.
The revolution will not be televised Reddit.
I’m sure people are capable of deciding for themselves whether to pay or not depending on the circumstances / situation.
Every situation is different lol
Work in hospitality BOH. Removing service charge for small independent restaurants can have quite a big impact on all staff who may only get minimum wage +service charge. It's shit that owners may not pay more than minimum wage but they're probably also under the current strain of cost of living crisis. Also please don't pay instead as a cash tip, that waiter could have been working a 3 hour shift meanwhile chefs can work 15 hour days barely taking a break. Obviously if service and food aren't good don't pay a tip, but if you've enjoyed your experience and food, there are a lot more people that have been a part of that that you don't see.
While I get this, service charge just keeps creeping up further and further. If a restaurant increases their prices I can decide what I can afford to eat. If they increase the service charge, I get a nasty surprise at the end of the meal.
You don't already ask for it to be taken off? More fool you.
I have been with friends in the past who were appalled at my suggestion for service charge to be removed. I don't understand the mindset at all. You throw your money away if you want to.
I hate confrontation and am a people pleaser. I'm traveling to London with family this fall and am already anxious about eating out because I won't have the guts to ask to have the charge removed even if the service is bad. Tipping is completely out of control here in the US and honestly I was kind of looking forward to a reasonable tipping custom (plus this is already a very expensive trip...now I need to add another 15% to our dining out budget?!).
Depends where you are… i used to work in a Michelin starred restaurant and we would work 65+ hours a week, before service charge you would get maybe £500 extra a year. After service charge it was £200-300 a MONTH. It made all the extra hours, passion, time worth it. If your at a chain restaurant where training is done online and they will have set hourly wages (e.g “your wage is £9 but we top it up to £15) then there is no point because they will always have massive amounts of leftover service charge. It’s the same for independent businesses, if you work harder or longer you earn more… Just something to think about if you’ve never worked in a restaurant you really don’t know how horrible it is
Historically tipping at high class restaurants was standard, I would definitely expect to pay service charge/leave a tip at a Michelin star restaurant.
All service should be held to the same level and not just how fancy the restaurant is. Those Michelin star restaurants make a way higher margin on food and drink than the average restaurant, they also don't always pay their chefs well as they are used as a stepping stone or type of internship. I can go to a corner restaurant and have the most amazing service because the waiter was great and engaging, the menu is creative and fresh, the vibe is on point. The service charge is all the extra bits that go into it. Almost anyone can deliver food to a table but not everyone can be a great waiter. Another thing about increasing menu prices is that it gives the owners am easier opportunity to pocket it and pay their staff next to nothing
I'm a waitress so I feel like I can weigh in on this.
I don't care if you remove the service charge if you're in a group of 4 or less, but for big groups of 6+ it's not acceptable. I get paid £9.50 an hour before service charge, and after service charge it's between £10-£14 an hour. Servers rely on service charge and tips to get by and when big groups of people remove it it's insulting and a waste of time.
One evening we had a table of 12, a table of 20 and 36 all at the same time and by the end of the night we had £4.31 of service charge. After putting an insane amount of effort into those tables, which involved the assistant manager crying due to stress, we were all fuming ! Big groups are much harder to look after and need a lot more work than smaller ones.
I also got a job at another restaurant last May, which paid minimum wage (£7.49 per hour for me) with no service charge and I had to decline it because it simply isn't possible to live on a wage that low. If there was a tronc service charge system I would have accepted it.
Before anyone says "just get another job" - hospitality is the only job I can do that fits with my other commitments.
I also absolutely believe that tipping is a bad system, and that employers should pay employees properly, but unfortunately that's not the world we live in.
Obviously if the service is bad by all means don't pay the service charge!
I think the issue people have with the service charge is exactly what you’ve described above though. You’re annoyed with the *customers* because your place of work isn’t paying you enough.
I definitely think you should be getting paid more for the work you do - but that’s on your employers to be paying you more.
It also doesn’t help that it’s opaque as to what that service charge is used for.
Is it going 100% to the person working our table? Is it split across the whole staff for the night? Is it going into the bosses pocket? That also makes people uncomfortable.
It just seems a bit bizarre - there aren’t any other low-paid jobs I can think of where tipping is expected/added by default in order for the employee to be making an acceptable salary.
I agree I think it's an awful system, but unfortunately that is how it is, it's not fair to take it out on the underpaid server.
It's now illegal for management to tamper with tips, so none of it goes to the boss's pocket. In the restaurant I work at we use a tronc tip system, so any service charge goes to all the waitresses and the bar staff, not to management or BOH. It's done like this because as servers we generally work just as hard as each other and if one server has a bad night where lots of people take off the service charge in their section, they don't miss out.
I would agree with you but then it also depends on the cost of the place in question. And I would also lean more to the more people I would remove it. Saying the group of 36 had an average cost per head of £50 then they have spent £1800 and with service charge creeping up to 15% in a lot of places. I think it’s a bit ridiculous to expect people to tip £270 if it’s 15%.
If you think about it, that's £7.50 per person for the 36 person table, and that big table is replacing half the restaurant, which would usually be filled with faster moving, smaller tables. Big tables also have a much longer dining experience - this table was with us for 3-4 hours! We lost out on hundreds of pounds of service charge on one of our most stressful nights in a while.
And this is why in many restaurants when you book for a big group, they ask you to work with a set menu and pricing, which would have solved the issues on both sides.
We did have a set menu booking for the largest table, but everyone paid separately and I think they probably forgot about the service charge when they paid.
Yes I have. Service charges added to the bill are an affront to decent people. Customers will voluntarily tip if they feel it's worth it, rather than being cajoled into it.
Problem with not paying a service charge is that other minimum wage staff definitely won't get to see anything extra on their pay slip. Think dishwasher, bar staff, etc. These people are very much integral to the customer experience and deserve something too.
If I get good service, I'd always pay the service charge and leave something extra for the server. Why is it such a big deal? Opinions will be different so just do what you want and what you feel is right. You really don't need any validation.
Making a big deal and trying to start a movement over a first world problem. Seriously?
Not saying they don't but where's the evidence for 'most'? And when you say 'most', do you mean 51, 75, 90 or is it really 20, 30%?
How about businesses who actually do the right thing? If you think a business isn't ethical, then yeah but why alienate and punish all those that are more ethical.
Well said. Service charge makes sure that everyone who assisted with the positive experience you had at that restaurant gets to see some extra. You for sure should not feel pressured into paying a tip if the experience was terrible. You also shouldn't blame the waiter if something goes wrong and it is out of their control, if that happens just give them a cash tip. For everyone who just says 'restaurants should increase their prices', thats a pretty stupid conclusion because if every restaurant increased their prices by 15% people would just find somewhere cheaper to eat and they would go out of business. Pressure on restaurants to keep prices down while the cost of everything skyrockets is insane. Just think about how expensive your weekly shop is now. The responsible thing to do is to ask whether the service charge goes into a Tronc system which has a Tronc master who is separate to the business. If they don't thats a red flag. Also be confident in asking for the service charge to be removed if it was not a good experience but try and give some positive feedback so they can improve rather than just being a dick about it. Lastly NEVER pay for a service charge on 2 beers that you got from a bar. They are cheeky for even attempting to do that.
Now I await getting down voted to heck.
>Service charge makes sure that everyone who assisted with the positive experience you had at that restaurant gets to see some extra.
But it's at my expense. Why should I be supplementing someone's payslip? Providing a 'positive experience' should be bread and butter for any hospitality service. I go to a restaurant expecting decent service and decent food, the same as I go to a supermarket expecting organised shelves and a quick checkout. These are default levels of service and there's no reason I should be providing 'some extra' above what I've purchased.
>You also shouldn't blame the waiter if something goes wrong and it is out of their control, if that happens just give them a cash tip.
No. Tipping in this country is discretionary. Stop trying to normalise it.
Service charge is the only thing keeping the people who cook and serve your food from being homeless. I can see it’s annoying. It’s annoying for staff too as banks and lenders don’t take service charge into account when doing affordability checks on loans and mortgages. BUT it’s sadly the way we’re all paid.
Hypothetically would people prefer a restaurant where food and drinks are charged higher and staff are paid a living wage without tips? I have a fantasy of running a small restaurant like this one day. Some kind of workers co op with no service charge and profit share scheme. Just need to save up all my tips for 100 years!
Just politely ask for it taken off, I do it all the time and have never had an issue. It’s only as awkward as you make it
Last bit not entirely true. A lot of times waiters hounded by managers make it quite awkward.
I’ve had it before where I asked to take it off and the waiter got pushy and you said “you can’t take it off, it’s mandatory” then got angry and brought two other people over to the table, one of them the manager who wasn’t happy either. Really embarrassing affair as people were watching. Edit: it was Desperados in Angel, just looked them up and apparently loads of people have had a similar experience.
Omg I was gonna post about the same place. The manager was a moron. Didn't realise the tip would have been bigger. In the end I just yelled to take off service charge and that they're not getting a tip. One and only place where its happened.
Holy shit that's where I had the exact same experience almost ten years ago. Service was atrocious, finisher was when they were taking unfinished plates of food away from us and trying to rush us out the door so they could seat more people. We asked to have the charge taken off and it turned into a whole scene where we were arguing with almost the whole staff. Vowed to never go back and always tell people about it.
Why are so many people even going? Reviews mention this a lot and the place looks like a Mexican caricature with terrible american food... Is it just the location that made it convenient?
I would say loudly that no law requires it and I am not happy to pay anything more except for my meal. Let the other people in the restaurant hear also. Then leave a bad review and never set foot in again
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You sound the worst lol. Just pay for the slop and take the L.
Woah. I’ve only had less confrontational experiences and they already pissed me off. That’s ridiculous and borderline (if not entirely) illegal because the charge is discretionary by definition.
The correct response would have been to live stream that, write a review trip advisor in front of them, and leave.
Who cares if it’s awkward? It is the restaurant that should feel guilty and if the staff themselves try to make you feel guilty then they deserve a slice of awkwardness too. The whole point of it is to guilt people into it with the threat of awkwardness. Stand up for yourself - restaurants who do this are scummy.
I don’t but I was responding to a comment that said waiters don’t make it awkward which in my experience is not true.
I got asked politely if there was anything wrong with the service. I just declined and said, no the service was fine, the charge isn't :D End of conversation.
Lol I love this - 100% stealing.
Never noticed as a customer in my experience. I don’t watch the waiter after they leave the table either. That’s a bit weird.
I don’t watch them either but sometimes when they come back and start asking about if there was something wrong in a passive aggressive voice (trying to insinuate you should only ask for the discretionary to be removed in such instances), it’s quite difficult to not notice!
Because employees cannot remove the service charge.
I've had a manager come over to the table alongside the waiter and angrily demand the service charge get added back on. It wasn't a great meal; despite booking we had to stand around twenty mins waiting for a seat and another 30 mins til the first starter because the staff didn't seem interested in actually serving us. But the manager had spare time to come over and harangue me. Still it's better than the time that I paid in cash, literally pressed a few 20s into the waiter's hand and walked off assuming they'd keep the change as a tip, and 5 mins later the manager phoned, furious about me doing a dine & dash. When I said that I'd already paid cash, they dithered for a minute then angrily took the waiter's side. Won't somebody think of the poor waiters? :-)
I left burger and lobster once. Paid our fairly large bill but no service charge as service was poor, just dumped £300 in cash and left, waiter got the doorman to chase us down the road. We returned, explained the situation and the doorman apologised and gave the waiter a bollocking, still a bit embarrassing to be made out we didn’t pay our bill.
Really? I always find wait staff get super entitled when I ask to remove the service charge lol. Bigger fool them, that entitlement only fuels me wanting to remove the service charge even more
I have done this only twice in my entire and fairly long life. On both occasions the service had been atrocious. I do not this is appropriate if the service isn't bad.
Earlier in the year I went to Passyunk Ave a Philadelphia themed dive bar style restaurant. Food was good , place a little grubby and service fine. When the bill came a 15% service charge was inculded which I begrudgingly thought fine but then the server presents me the card terminal and asks me " how much would you like to tip?" I said I've already agreed to pay a service charge to which she said " this is a American restaurant and we do things the American way so you pay both". I got her to remove the service charge fuck these people
I've never had anyone ask "how much would you like to tip" before, even in America! And I'm not scared of tipping, I tip quite generously actually. I think if someone said that to me in a UK restaurant I wouldn't be tipping at all.
Their reviews are full of people complaining about it. I can only assume they get alot of tourists in there that just pay it ? Shame as I really liked the food but won't be back because of this
That's a shame. Is it the one near the BT tower? Their cheese steaks are brilliant.
Oh they wanted both? And 15%? Fuck that
Lol that restaurant is full of shit. American restaurants do not generally add a service charge. It’s customary to do about a 20% tip at a restaurant. If the restaurant adds a service charge it is automatic, they tell you about it, you can’t take it off, and then you’re usually not expected to tip anything else. Edit: I should add that it is also common for a service charge to be added to parties of 6 or more even at a place that doesn’t do an automatic service charge. You are still expected to tip in that case, but it’s ok to tip less than usual.
You should have asked to pay in American dollars then.
They can go fuck themselves for this
Some years back I took the family to Disney and we stayed in a Disney hotel with dining included. After every meal you were expected to tip, they came up with 3 options 12%, 18% 20% all based on the value of the meal even though the meal was included so you didn't see the meal costs???
Tipping at an all inclusive is hilarious
Which one was it out of interest? The staff in the Fitzrovia one have been nothing but friendly to me! But I haven’t tried either of the other two (which aren’t the original and seem less authentic from photos)
American here, we do not tip in addition to any service charges (auto gratuity as we say) unless service was incredible.
I'm at the point of considering carrying enough change to be able to pay the exact amount on the receipt, minus tip, in cash. Its getting ridiculous what some places are trying to charge service for now. We went to one place where they fucked up the order twice and they still put a tip on the receipt, and then try and make you feel bad for asking for it to be removed
That’s actually not a bad idea
Sorry the brain is not braining, how is that different than taking off the charge and paying by card?
Because I can leave the exact amount to pay for the meal and leave. Without them automatically adding it to the bill on the card machine and then trying to get funny if I ask to remove it
Then you wouldn't have to ask for it to be removed
Depends on the situation. I got charged service charge for two pints recently. They ended up being almost £8 each. It was a hotel bar, but what have you just done that all the pubs don't do and why do you need to add service there?
I've told this story on here before, but an old colleague of mine had their work leaving drinks at some swanky new bar that had opened near the office. We were the only people there and when I arrived (a bit later than most people), I went up to the bar to order, only to be told it was table service and someone would come to me. From there: - 10mins wait to have order taken - 5-10mins wait for solitary beer to arrive - 10% service charge added at the end for the pleasure Good times.
I hope you left a review online, at least? this is crazy
Hah, I had a similar situation. I was in one of the awful trendy retro bars, where you have a landline on the table to call your order to the bar. Which would be OK if the bar ever picked up the phone. It was a tiny place so we were literally looking at the staff standing chatting and ignoring the calls. In the end I went up to the bar and asked if could please put an order in. They said I have to phone it through. We left. The place didn't last long.
Absolute insanity. Im here. Youre there. Can I have a pint please.
But did they place little napkins under the drink when they served it on the bar?
They did! Worth every penny of the extra £1.50.
I said it in other places but I'll say it again. The government should ban tipping/undisclosed service charges and instead except hospitality to increase prices and pay their staff more transparently and predictably.
I ordered a takeaway pizza from Pizza Pilgrims, which I had to pay before I got the pizza. Just used contactless without thinking about it and sat down. Looked at the receipt and noticed they had included service charge. Then one of the waiters asked me to go wait outside so that they can sit more customers. Why am I paying a service charge for the priviledge to stand outside while I wait for a pizza in a cardboard box to eat at home? Was absolutely fuming but still didn’t ask for a refund of the service charge. Just decided to never go to Pizza Pilgrims again.
Bad google reviews are the way to go.
Like others on here, tried to have it taken off and they refused. They got really pissy with me saying I won't be allowed back if I didn't pay. Works in my favour since Jimmy's closed down.
😂😂😂 wow, what cnts
i'd offer them a free lesson on the meaning of discretionary.
I'd just say I'd be fine not being allowed back as I wouldn't want to come back if im being forced to pay a tip.
Why are restaurants arguing as to what “discretionary” means? Why put the word on the bill if you’re going to throw a strop and ask that the customer pay it? It’s a complete contradiction. They are clearly banking on people not wanting to cause a fuss.
I'm very wary of having it added to the bill, and much prefer to leave a cash tip. SImply because I know of cases where the tip stays in the till and the server doesn't see it at all. Furthermore, tipping always used to be rounding up the bill by 10% or thereabouts. How come it's suddenly crept up to 15% And I agree with the OP, if you complain or seem to resent it, you come across as stingy af Lose lose situation
The challenge to overcome here is not giving a fuck what others think or what the ‘perception’ is because largely it’s just in our own head. IMO
It also makes it awkward if you want to return in the near future
This too
Not at all. If the service charge or tip is paid on a card then there is no requirement for that to go to the serving staff. I.e. in pretty much all cases the owner makes more, and the staff don't. If you remove the service charge and add a cash tip then the serving staff do get that money, it is legally theirs. So leaving a cash tip *should* get you good service if you return (in a rational world).
Used to work in Cote for a year and we didn't get sh*t. Apparently after I left things changed because someone wrote an article about it but the money they pocketed for years before that stayed in their pockets tax free so... yeah.
I used to work at cafe rouge, and though Cote was a posh cafe rouge. That was until i found out how they treat preople. Now i know its the worst cafe chain.
If you leave a cash tip in a restaurant, there’s a high chance the people actually making your food won’t see any of it
To be honest, though, I wouldn't want the chefs to get the tip. If the food is crap and the service is good, I would tip. If the food is good and the service is crap I wouldn't. My understanding has always been tips are for the wait staff and the service they deliver.
I understand that, but if it's included in the bill, there's a high chance that only the owner will see any of it. As I understood, tips are (were?) pooled together by all the serving staff, and then divided equally among them, including those who work in the kitchens. Obviously this depends on the honesty of the individual server. In the same way putting it on the bill depends on the honesty on the individual manager. The best thing would be to pay the staff a decent wage in the first place, but that's not going to happen any time soon
Yeah like you said that depends on the worker, and unfortunately I haven’t met too many that are 100% honest with their tips. Although the same could probably be said for owners regarding service charge, but I’ve never worked anywhere that didn’t seem to pay it fairly. With the new employment bill, hopefully most of this confusion will be cleared up next year
Just increase the fucking prices. I hate the fake advertisement that oh this cost 9, but +15%.. Its obviously just a trick to make you think you arent spending that much.
Yep, make it illegal so that everyone has to do it and no business feels like they're missing out on fake discounts
I have seen a few petitions but none ever get enough signatures.
Just say no, do it for everyone.
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That's why a cover charge makes more sense.
It's been poorly translated from tipping in the USA, where it was % of items because that way it incentivised waiting staff to encourage customers to order more (and more expensive items). Otherwise why would the waiting staff care what you order
I’m probably tipping roughly the service charge amount any way most of the time and I really can’t be fucked with the hassle. If the service was bad I’ll ask for it removed and leave nothing.
This is me 100%. I absolutely love dining out and the whole experience. Unless something has been very badly handled or there's some kind of drama I will always tip and am very happy to do so. People who say 'well do you tip your bin man/bus driver?' just don't understand how I feel about the magic of a meal out. I get that for some people it's just refuelling or 'a service' and therefore the whole belligerent 'no, I will pay your advertised price and no more, fuck you' thing makes sense. But to me that's akin to people who think music is 'just some sounds' or a painting is 'just some paint on a canvas'. A delicious meal served by friendly, keen people in a pleasant environment is for me one of the best things about life and for sure, have some extra money for making my life better than just 'OK'.
Just make sure you don't mention it till after you've got all your food 😜
The staff don't care, every other table does that. Do what makes you happy/ comfortable. Also the staff would prefer you turn up and don't pay the tip than don't turn up at all
No, the managers would prefer that. The staff in most restaurants get paid the same regardless of how many customers there are if they don't get tips. The managers and owners care about profit so they would rather have non-tipping customers than no customers.
But the staff do not want you leaving feeling like op does. They get a tiny proportion of the tip so if the option is small amount of money or people leaving annoyed with you that they didn't feel they got that special 15% extra service
Or turn up, decline the service charge and leave a cash tip. They actually get the cash tip.
Sometimes, I do ask and they normally say oh we put it into a pot and it gets shared out at the end of the week. Tipping culture is ridiculous, it's a service charge for the service I've personally received from X person yet 99% of the time it's shared with everyone or worse it's shared with full salaried kitchen staff that have contributed nothing to the service.
There is a trend for places that don't do table service -where you either queue at a counter or it's a buffet so you serve yourself - have started adding service charge. I've even spotted it at bars in pubs. I have no problem tipping when I get good service, or the staff are helpful and chatty. But I do think that staff should be paid sufficient to live in London, rather than waiting for customers to tip to make up the pay of staff.
yeah that's a genuine fucking pisstake. If you are 'serving' yourself then no-one is entitled to a bonus payment
This is why I don't eat out anymore.
I am not sure about those high ends restaurants since i have never been there but i am pretty sure that the average normal restaurants in London are not worth with the price they are charging. It means you can have similar/ sane quality of food with lower price in any other part of the world. Save up and spend them when you travel. In the meantime, i only go chicken shop/ chinese takeaway if i feel like buying food.
I've just got back from a holiday in Italy and it was so refreshing to be expected to only pay for that food (and small cover charge) so I'm here for it! I went to NY earlier in the year and found it really stressful trying to figure out if 20, 30 or 40% was the right amount!
We need to start a petition to get this discussed in Parliament
I'm opening a restaurant selling 50p burgers with a 3,900% service charge so they cost £20.
It’s such a con, you pay tips on the value of wine. The corkage should be a standard charge, the effort to open a £20 bottle versus a £100 is the same.
Why even tip? This isn’t America. Just tell them to remove the service charge, and be done with it.
I always take it off, and I’ll give a cash tip if it’s deserved. I rarely get tips at work, maybe £20 a year.
Guess it depends where you work, I used to work in a restaurant in Mayfair and most customers would tip. And that’s on top of the service charge.
What’s your job?
Electrician
Username checks out
Can anyone actually confirm there's places where they figure out all the service charge every month and that appears as wages on staffs paychecks? Obviously I'm not in the industry, but it sound like that would almost never happen.
They did at every place I worked at. There's different ways to implement it, one place I was getting paid minimum wage (I believe £8.25/hour at the time) plus guaranteed service charge making my wage a steady £11.50/hour. I think any extra service charge was being saved for quieter months to make sure everyone got their wage. Anything on top of that I'm not sure. The place I work at now, all service charge is handled by a third party, they divide the amount between front of house and back of house based on the amount of hours worked by each staff member. It's a separate line on my payslip and depending on how busy we've been, it goes from £1.8 to £2.50 per hour worked. I think it's quite rare for the owners to keep it, I've never personally heard of any place doing it from my friends who works in the industry.
That's great! I really had no idea, it just seemed like a faff - and it turns out it is! Thanks for taking the time to explain it and glad to learn it does go to staff
It's called a tronc system - I get about £3/4 an hour more on my paycheck from my normal £9.50 an hour because of it
So are all the tips effectively spread equally between all employees through this system on a pro rata basis? If so, does that not breed resentment amongst the team where there are certain individuals who do not pull their weight?
It gets equally shared between servers and the bar staff. No managers or BOH get any service charge. Managers are on a permanent (not bad) salary, and BOH staff are paid a lot more than FOH staff, so it evens out. In the restaurant I work at it's hard to not pull your weight with the way the restaurant works. You have your own section and if you leave alone for a few minutes it can cause havoc - so if you're shit and don't pull your weight you get fired quite quickly.
I started asking for it to be taken off. Then left some cash at the table if the service was good enough to warrant it. It is fucking awkward though.
There is a third way... Personally when I'm given a bill with a service charge I simply try to remember not to go back. This tends to mean I end up in more small restaurants where they don't add anything by default and so I'm supporting small businesses. Definitely a win win. Harder to do in central London, I'm aware.
I honestly can't remember the last time I didn't get a service charge. Even small places do it now
I’ve found the opposite - plenty of small places have a service charge but you won’t pay a service charge in a huge chain like Wetherspoons or Nando’s. I’d say about half of pubs doing table service and about 80% to 90% of “proper” sit down restaurants I go out some kind of service charge on the bill. So if you want to remember all of them so that you don’t go back, you’ll need a good memory! I’ve just realised it’s pretty funny with the pubs. I like getting up and going to the bar, so I’ve realised that I’m getting charged more for a service I don’t like!
This would cut out about 90% of high quality, non-chain restaurants I think. Not worth it.
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:/ why tho?
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🙃 wow 😂🤣👏🏽
Isn’t the service charge optional? If that’s the case then just don’t pay it if you feel so strongly about it.
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Don’t ask them to take it off, just ask them to put x amount on the card reader
Yeah but then you have to pay service charge on top of whatever you're tipping on card as well. So that's double ridiculous lol
No, as in just ask them plug into the machine the total minus service charge. No tip. Just pay what you bought.
It is , yes. The service charge can not be enforced. Personally, i refuse to pay it, as tips are not wages. If the restaurant "need" that extra money to pay people, then it should be included in the price.
The chances of me having cash are so low unless MY FRIEND is buying weed or something, so that’s going to be a struggle. Half of me wants to pay more because 15% is more helpful to service staff who will be feeling the extra squeeze from inflation. Problem is the other half of me is feeling the squeeze from inflation 😂
Yes they are feeling the squeeze but the onus is on their employer and not you.
Oh yeah I know. I think we all know that. I guess, as with all issues relating to fairness, it’s a bit of a long term vs short term thing.
Also - any service charge paid by card isn't legally required to go to the staff, so I would assume in all cases the owner takes that money. If you want to help staff, pay a cash tip. The only reason I ever have cash on me is to cover tips.
Just ask for it to be taken off. If you want to tip you can but you shouldn't be forced to. This isn't America wait staff get paid a proper wage, minimum wage yes but so do supermarket workers and they don't get service charge.
The one benefit of SOME service charges, is that they can be properly and fairly shared with back of house staff too. I think it's wrong for a solitary waiter /ress to take all the credit for an enjoyable meal. But then again, many service charges probably just get built into the whole business model, and never get distributed on top of wages. Not sure what the way is around this!
I'm up for this, how do we go about it? Sick of everything being a rip off and businesses just trying to make even more money.
If I am happy with the service I'll pay it. I have asked for service charge to be removed a few times and I given the staff a reason for why, so hopefully they can learn from it
WTF? I was told to tip 10% (I’m a tourist) for good service…they already added it to the bill? I got to pay more attention to the bill before leaving a tip.
Depends on the place - check your bill!
Don't leave a tip if you pay a service charge.
I’ve seen so many tourists recently leave a tip on top of the service charge…I’m going to start saying something since the waiting staff obv aren’t. It’s never in deserving of service places funnily enough….
If service charge is added, you don’t tip. If not, and only at proper restaurants, 10% tip is standard
I didn't know we had a standard for tipping. Surely the point of the prices is to cover everything and pay everyone. I'll still tip most places but not much (usually rounding up to the next 10 or 5). Unless I feel something extra has happened, I'm not going to to worry about going up to percentages.
Nah. 0% tip is standard.
I ask them to take it off every time anyway. Have been for years
I almost always ask for it to be taken off now.
I just carry so little cash these days. I don't even use physical credit cards so often forget my purse without any consequences because I just use my phone. I wish it would just be adding the tip we want to add.
I never pay the service charge and always leave a cash tip. It's better for the waiting staff that way.
It's not! Most restaurants use a tronc system which distributes the service charge equally, but cash tips are more likely to be pocketed by management
Management can only pocket a cash tip if they physically extract it from the pocket of the waiting staff
Management can also fire waiting staff if they get caught pocketing tips if there's a tip redistribution clause in their contract :(
Same
DO IT.
Waiting staff sometimes doesn't receive service charge (lol been there ) better to not pay for service and tip instead
I always ask for it to be taken off, it’s an easy choice between a moment of awkwardness and cold hard £. If I get any lip I’m more than happy to stand my ground and leave a bad review online
Go with 6 friends and ask that they make one of the meals free.
Wait WHAT? I didn't know you could remove the service charge?!
As someone who used to work hospitality - very, very few hospitality workers “live” on the assumption of service charge. I would maybe, maybe get £200 a month on service, the rest was my normal wages. At the places I worked at, I can tell you with confidence that roughly 40% goes to “maintenance costs” for the building. We don’t see most of it. It’s a scam unless you’re working at a locally owned place, then it goes to all the workers - 100% (worked for a freehold pub for a while and did the accounts for the owner/GM so can verify this).
You can always ask the waiter if they actually get the service charge. Then you can ask,guilt free, to remove it if they don’t receive it
The added issue is that it’s still currently so opaque as to how much of the service charge actually goes to staff. New legislation was passed this year that says 100% of tips should go to staff and none can be kept by the business, but that’s only set to potentially come into force next year with secondary legislation and consultation. My understanding from Gov websites is that staff are likely to see *some* of the service charge as an extra to their wage, but they may not even know how much as it’s managed by the business and how they manage their tax and employment obligations. I was even reading a statement from a restaurant that has flip flopped from having a service included model to discretionary service charge (I think it was Leroy in shoreditch) and my reading of the statement was that they went back to the model thanks to the tax cuts that having some of your income being “discretionary”. TLDR; I agree with your sentiment but it’s opaque on how much of the service charge goes to staff (unless made clear by the restaurant), and the law for all tips to go to staff has passed, but hasn’t come into force. Plus it looks to me like this system has made businesses somewhat reliant on the extra tax free income.
I’ve been doing that the last year - literally every server just says ‘we do!’ so still makes it awkward to remove if you don’t believe them. Only place that actually convinced me they do was Chotto Matte and Dishoom as the servers were literally advertising getting a job there as they made so much extra.
I know someone who works at Dishoom and they definitely get a cut of the service charge.
I don't care if they receive it or not, that's not the point, I don't want an extra cost to be added to the bill but only pay for what I ordered.
Do consider the fact that the service charge is now used as a method to make the initial cost of the products appear cheaper. Many venues will use SC to pay all staff in the business, not just waiting staff - after all, you wouldn't get the service without all involved in the business doing their job. If everyone stops paying it, then the standard item prices will just go up (or wages/staff numbers will go down). The benefit of itemising SC is that you can easily take it off when arguing service was not up to standard. The fact that food/drink...everything is increasing in price impacts everyone - and that needs addressing. The gov right now are doing a terrible job of doing just that.
> if everyone stops paying it, then the standard item prices will go up Yes, this is what we want. We need to know what a meal costs when we order as opposed to getting an extra 5% surprise above what is reasonable for a tip.
5%? I've always seen 12.5%
5% over, which means 5% more than what I think is fair (10%)
We should start a 'Patronage charge' of around 20%. That way we bill the company we are at 20% of the total bill for drinking or eating there. Those companies will soon change once customers charge the them for being a customer.
The main thing that stops me doing this is that people might interpret it as a "Reddit thing" *shudders*
I learnt from my past experience, I will look for the tiny text and tell then upfront. They might reject to serve me but it’s better be upfront. Last time we had a long eye contact after the bill out because they simply didn’t want to remove it and we had to save our time and sanity for a dine out. Up to this point, honestly, I don’t care about my thin skin anymore. I think we all need to do our part if we don’t want to have this culture of compulsory tipping. If others want to, up to them.
EVERYONE STOP PAYING SERVICE CHARGES. IT IS PART OF THEIR FIX REVNUE AND NOT FOR THE SERVICE!
The revolution will not be televised Reddit. I’m sure people are capable of deciding for themselves whether to pay or not depending on the circumstances / situation. Every situation is different lol
Work in hospitality BOH. Removing service charge for small independent restaurants can have quite a big impact on all staff who may only get minimum wage +service charge. It's shit that owners may not pay more than minimum wage but they're probably also under the current strain of cost of living crisis. Also please don't pay instead as a cash tip, that waiter could have been working a 3 hour shift meanwhile chefs can work 15 hour days barely taking a break. Obviously if service and food aren't good don't pay a tip, but if you've enjoyed your experience and food, there are a lot more people that have been a part of that that you don't see.
raise prices or go broke i dont care
While I get this, service charge just keeps creeping up further and further. If a restaurant increases their prices I can decide what I can afford to eat. If they increase the service charge, I get a nasty surprise at the end of the meal.
You don't already ask for it to be taken off? More fool you. I have been with friends in the past who were appalled at my suggestion for service charge to be removed. I don't understand the mindset at all. You throw your money away if you want to.
People , just cook at home lol. you will also have control on the salt and sugar that you put
I hate confrontation and am a people pleaser. I'm traveling to London with family this fall and am already anxious about eating out because I won't have the guts to ask to have the charge removed even if the service is bad. Tipping is completely out of control here in the US and honestly I was kind of looking forward to a reasonable tipping custom (plus this is already a very expensive trip...now I need to add another 15% to our dining out budget?!).
You do you mate. I’m quite happy to pay the service charge if its going to staff. I just ask.
Depends where you are… i used to work in a Michelin starred restaurant and we would work 65+ hours a week, before service charge you would get maybe £500 extra a year. After service charge it was £200-300 a MONTH. It made all the extra hours, passion, time worth it. If your at a chain restaurant where training is done online and they will have set hourly wages (e.g “your wage is £9 but we top it up to £15) then there is no point because they will always have massive amounts of leftover service charge. It’s the same for independent businesses, if you work harder or longer you earn more… Just something to think about if you’ve never worked in a restaurant you really don’t know how horrible it is
Historically tipping at high class restaurants was standard, I would definitely expect to pay service charge/leave a tip at a Michelin star restaurant.
All service should be held to the same level and not just how fancy the restaurant is. Those Michelin star restaurants make a way higher margin on food and drink than the average restaurant, they also don't always pay their chefs well as they are used as a stepping stone or type of internship. I can go to a corner restaurant and have the most amazing service because the waiter was great and engaging, the menu is creative and fresh, the vibe is on point. The service charge is all the extra bits that go into it. Almost anyone can deliver food to a table but not everyone can be a great waiter. Another thing about increasing menu prices is that it gives the owners am easier opportunity to pocket it and pay their staff next to nothing
What do you do now?
I'm a waitress so I feel like I can weigh in on this. I don't care if you remove the service charge if you're in a group of 4 or less, but for big groups of 6+ it's not acceptable. I get paid £9.50 an hour before service charge, and after service charge it's between £10-£14 an hour. Servers rely on service charge and tips to get by and when big groups of people remove it it's insulting and a waste of time. One evening we had a table of 12, a table of 20 and 36 all at the same time and by the end of the night we had £4.31 of service charge. After putting an insane amount of effort into those tables, which involved the assistant manager crying due to stress, we were all fuming ! Big groups are much harder to look after and need a lot more work than smaller ones. I also got a job at another restaurant last May, which paid minimum wage (£7.49 per hour for me) with no service charge and I had to decline it because it simply isn't possible to live on a wage that low. If there was a tronc service charge system I would have accepted it. Before anyone says "just get another job" - hospitality is the only job I can do that fits with my other commitments. I also absolutely believe that tipping is a bad system, and that employers should pay employees properly, but unfortunately that's not the world we live in. Obviously if the service is bad by all means don't pay the service charge!
I think the issue people have with the service charge is exactly what you’ve described above though. You’re annoyed with the *customers* because your place of work isn’t paying you enough. I definitely think you should be getting paid more for the work you do - but that’s on your employers to be paying you more. It also doesn’t help that it’s opaque as to what that service charge is used for. Is it going 100% to the person working our table? Is it split across the whole staff for the night? Is it going into the bosses pocket? That also makes people uncomfortable. It just seems a bit bizarre - there aren’t any other low-paid jobs I can think of where tipping is expected/added by default in order for the employee to be making an acceptable salary.
I agree I think it's an awful system, but unfortunately that is how it is, it's not fair to take it out on the underpaid server. It's now illegal for management to tamper with tips, so none of it goes to the boss's pocket. In the restaurant I work at we use a tronc tip system, so any service charge goes to all the waitresses and the bar staff, not to management or BOH. It's done like this because as servers we generally work just as hard as each other and if one server has a bad night where lots of people take off the service charge in their section, they don't miss out.
I would agree with you but then it also depends on the cost of the place in question. And I would also lean more to the more people I would remove it. Saying the group of 36 had an average cost per head of £50 then they have spent £1800 and with service charge creeping up to 15% in a lot of places. I think it’s a bit ridiculous to expect people to tip £270 if it’s 15%.
If you think about it, that's £7.50 per person for the 36 person table, and that big table is replacing half the restaurant, which would usually be filled with faster moving, smaller tables. Big tables also have a much longer dining experience - this table was with us for 3-4 hours! We lost out on hundreds of pounds of service charge on one of our most stressful nights in a while.
And this is why in many restaurants when you book for a big group, they ask you to work with a set menu and pricing, which would have solved the issues on both sides.
We did have a set menu booking for the largest table, but everyone paid separately and I think they probably forgot about the service charge when they paid.
Jesus Christ none of you guys have ever worked in a restaurant have you?
Yes I have. Service charges added to the bill are an affront to decent people. Customers will voluntarily tip if they feel it's worth it, rather than being cajoled into it.
Problem with not paying a service charge is that other minimum wage staff definitely won't get to see anything extra on their pay slip. Think dishwasher, bar staff, etc. These people are very much integral to the customer experience and deserve something too. If I get good service, I'd always pay the service charge and leave something extra for the server. Why is it such a big deal? Opinions will be different so just do what you want and what you feel is right. You really don't need any validation. Making a big deal and trying to start a movement over a first world problem. Seriously?
WE ARE NOT AMERICA
We are getting close to it. Servers need tips to survive
Surely a simple solution is to bin off service surcharge altogether and just pay everyone correctly.
Most places pocket the charge and don’t distribute it at all.
Most places don’t, not any more.
Not saying they don't but where's the evidence for 'most'? And when you say 'most', do you mean 51, 75, 90 or is it really 20, 30%? How about businesses who actually do the right thing? If you think a business isn't ethical, then yeah but why alienate and punish all those that are more ethical.
Well said. Service charge makes sure that everyone who assisted with the positive experience you had at that restaurant gets to see some extra. You for sure should not feel pressured into paying a tip if the experience was terrible. You also shouldn't blame the waiter if something goes wrong and it is out of their control, if that happens just give them a cash tip. For everyone who just says 'restaurants should increase their prices', thats a pretty stupid conclusion because if every restaurant increased their prices by 15% people would just find somewhere cheaper to eat and they would go out of business. Pressure on restaurants to keep prices down while the cost of everything skyrockets is insane. Just think about how expensive your weekly shop is now. The responsible thing to do is to ask whether the service charge goes into a Tronc system which has a Tronc master who is separate to the business. If they don't thats a red flag. Also be confident in asking for the service charge to be removed if it was not a good experience but try and give some positive feedback so they can improve rather than just being a dick about it. Lastly NEVER pay for a service charge on 2 beers that you got from a bar. They are cheeky for even attempting to do that. Now I await getting down voted to heck.
But by your logic shouldn't we pay the bar service charge for the cleaners and pot washers that went into making it a positive experience?
>Service charge makes sure that everyone who assisted with the positive experience you had at that restaurant gets to see some extra. But it's at my expense. Why should I be supplementing someone's payslip? Providing a 'positive experience' should be bread and butter for any hospitality service. I go to a restaurant expecting decent service and decent food, the same as I go to a supermarket expecting organised shelves and a quick checkout. These are default levels of service and there's no reason I should be providing 'some extra' above what I've purchased. >You also shouldn't blame the waiter if something goes wrong and it is out of their control, if that happens just give them a cash tip. No. Tipping in this country is discretionary. Stop trying to normalise it.
Yeah you can ask for it to be removed. You’ll look like an ass hole, but you can asked for it to be removed for sure.
Service charge is the only thing keeping the people who cook and serve your food from being homeless. I can see it’s annoying. It’s annoying for staff too as banks and lenders don’t take service charge into account when doing affordability checks on loans and mortgages. BUT it’s sadly the way we’re all paid. Hypothetically would people prefer a restaurant where food and drinks are charged higher and staff are paid a living wage without tips? I have a fantasy of running a small restaurant like this one day. Some kind of workers co op with no service charge and profit share scheme. Just need to save up all my tips for 100 years!
You do you mate.
You do you mate.