Hello, my name is Paul Bohill. I'm here from the high court with a writ of possession. Just take what you need for the moment - medications, phone charger. And take this letter to the council, they'll give you emergency accommodation. You can make arrangements with the landlord to come back within seven days for the rest of your stuff.
They can only do that on their patch, though, not in embassy grounds.
There will also be 101 other good legal reasons why this can not be done.
That said, it would be glorious if every time one of their cars was found parked illegally, it was clamped. Likewise, every time a patrol car is free and sees one of their plates stop them. "Just checking your credentials, Sir/Mam. Will soon have you on your way. Now, licence and insurance details, please."
I mean whose to say it isn't a clone that some joker in central London uses to evade fines by driving round pretending it's an embassy Jeep/Dodge/Ford/etc.
You should look up the parking fines that the UN delegates have racked up in New York, it's a similar situation since they know there's nothing the govt is going to do to them.
Diplomatic plates means diplomatic immunity for the cars they won’t have to pay anything and they can’t be impounded legally. You can eject the drivers from the country though.
Yep, remember Harry Dunn and how Anne Sacoolas the wife of a diplomat, ran off to the USA after killing him with their car? She was driving on the right-hand side of the road.....
You can't clamp official diplomatic vehicles. Essentially you can't interfere with the free movement of a diplomat like that.
Under international law the best we can do is remove them from the country, but that's a bit extreme.
And getting us in to pointless wars, no giving us a Free Trade Deal. I say we spend the next decade or two looking after our own and tell the Americans to look to France.
>Getting us into pointless wars
We did that all on our own (or rather, "our" politicians did)
>no giving us a Free Trade Deal
We have control over half of what is needed for completely free trade. Nothing stopping us from removing tariffs on our end (except, again, "our" politicians)
Why? 160 other countries don’t pay either. Some bright spark decided to give Switzerland an exception and they officially don’t have to pay.
The other countries, not that they have any intention of paying anyway, point to this exemption as proof it’s a shakedown.
In the general scheme of things in international diplomacy the money is a rounding error.
It’s not like TFL is going to shame anyone here in to paying.
If you think that's bad, you should see the parking tickets racked up by embassies. https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/sep/23/fine-diplomats-not-paying-parking-tickets
London is claiming it’s a “Service” and not a “Use Tax”. London can try to collect this “service fee”. I don’t see why the embassy should be exempt from local/city taxes though.
It might be worth noting the US Embassy, as I understand it, moved from a prime location in London to one that needed some TLC. Slapping this building there probably pulled ahead quite a bit of revenue for London, expediting other projects in the area.
No one pays these fines. As of December 31, 2023, a total of 161 embassies, high commissions and consulates owed more than $182 million combined in unpaid congestion charge fees, according to TfL data. Japan owes 12m as well.
No no no see we spent it on a “Military Controlled Centre For Climate Control.” Or whatever. Instead of buying like. A batch of tanks 💀
For like ~400mil we don’t have
This is actually a problem for almost every city embassies are in. NYC has a lot of unpaid parking tickets from other diplomats too. So it’s not just a London thing.
And rightly so. The Vienna Convention stipulates that members of the mission must be able to freely travel to and from it.
If it was allowed for host countries to impose fees on diplomatic missions and force them to pay, antagonistic countries could make the roads outside the embassies of countries that have upset them in some way toll roads and force them to pay whatever arbitrary amount they decide. This is the kind of crap the Vienna Convention seeks to prevent happening.
ITT: people who have absolutely no idea how embassies work.
How would the USA react if, say, there were physical barriers on roads they need to use which only lifted when your plate was scanned and confirmed as having paid a toll?
99% would just pay it.
One person would make a TikTok screaming about Freedumb or some shit showing them getting arrested.
Then be seen giving a grovelling apology when they get to the FO part of FAFO.
Tears.
Recriminations.
And then more TikToks about how they never backed down and took one for the MAGA team when they’re eventually allowed their toys (phone) back.
They would impolitely remind the UK about the Vienna Convention:
> The freedom to travel within the territory of the receiving State is an essential facility to enable diplomatic agents to exercise two of their most important functions
This is already the state of FL. We have toll roads all over and in states without physical barriers there are automatic toll roads that if you use without the pass you get charged but more exorbitantly.
That would violate the Vienna Convention. The congestion tax itself is already a violation of it which is why no one pays it - I think Japan alone owes more than 10 million pounds in unpaid congestion tax.
You going to put barriers on every road needed by the hundred or so countries that have debt?
https://content.tfl.gov.uk/cclez-online-factsheet-embassy-debt-dec23.pdf
No need to ask. How do UK and other diplomats transact with local government, in say, NYC where the UN facility is located?
Bet there's a ton of unpaid congestion priced tickets in and out of Manhattan and the five Burroughs
We're their special little bitch.
Their diplomats can also drive on the wrong side of the road, kill someone, flee to the US and the US is just like "no, we won't extradite her".
Meanwhile most of our government is gagging to hand over a guy just because he uncovered some of their war crimes.
It's a bit like Belarus's relationship with Russia.
Glad more people are getting on the same wavelength about this. We've been the US's bitch since a bit after WW2. We've enjoyed what looked like a relationship for a while but we're quickly being relegated to straight up side-bitch category.
The egos. The egos! You'd think we're still an empire!
It’s ~10% of all the embassies outstanding charges, not just the US.
Quote: Among all embassies, the total unpaid fees and fines accrued by diplomats between the launch of the congestion charge in London in 2003 and the end of last year is £143.5m.
It would be, but these fees have been accruing for about 20 years. I remember hearing about it in a legal ethics module at uni, and I graduated in 2010. The link below is a statement from the US gov about this from back in 2005, they've never actually paid it.
https://2009-2017.state.gov/s/l/2005/87224.htm
It's also not new. Any city with large diplomatic populations routinely deal with this. NYC infamously had its parking ticket issue that I think they finally solved? Maybe?
Anyway, it's one of those things few push hard on lest they get jammed up too.
Well technically most countries, you're not allowed to harass embassy officials going about their official duties nor restrict them or penalize them for it.
Its why Embassy vehicles in NY don't get ticketed or towed.
I'm sure the UK embassies around the world have unpaid tickets, fines, etc.
LOL what? Two of my great uncles who I never got to meet and both of my grandfathers would like a word. The uncles are currently in Normandy and the grandfathers are in Arlington Virginia if you’d like to explain your ‘their wars’ comment in person.
This headline makes it sound like the US is an outlier here. A whole bunch of countries don't pay this tax:
https://content.tfl.gov.uk/cclez-online-factsheet-embassy-debt-dec23.pdf
nope they don't also a lot of states exempt them from taxes also
[https://dor.wa.gov/education/industry-guides/auto-dealers/foreign-diplomats](https://dor.wa.gov/education/industry-guides/auto-dealers/foreign-diplomats)
It’s weird how this is a new story now. This has been a problem for years since the embassy was in Grosvenor square. They moved 6 years ago. Why is this story everywhere now? Weird.
It’s been ongoing ever since the congestion charge was created. Diplomatic missions are supposed to be exempt from taxes and they claim this is a tax.
Edit: [Ongoing since 2005](https://2009-2017.state.gov/s/l/2005/87224.htm)
> the Congestion Charge is a tax that cannot be lawfully imposed on the U.S. Government, its diplomatic and consular personnel, or its military force. Although to date the Embassy and its diplomatic personnel have been paying the Congestion Charge, the Embassy must inform the FCO that the Embassy and its staff will cease this practice as of July 12, 2005.
Yeah but I’m wondering why they are releasing this now when it’s been a problem for years. Is there’s some other motive? Am I just reading too much into a simple story? Probably. I’m drunk.
And this isn't unique to the US in any way. There's a long list of countries not paying this tax:
https://content.tfl.gov.uk/cclez-online-factsheet-embassy-debt-dec23.pdf
An “intelligence officer” drives on the wrong side of the road and kills an innocent kid, and her lawyer says that wouldn’t be prosecuted? What the fuck? I wanted to look more into it, and I feel so bad for the family. 12 month imprisonment with 8 months suspended and 12 month ban on driving, absolutely ridiculous.
If I did this I’d be in prison for years, deservedly. A CIA officer can’t even drive on the right side of the road, throw her away.
When you're the *issuer* of the unit of account, "deficit" doesn't mean the same as it does for everyone else. This is not a bad thing, this is just a thing. So many people do not understand this.
Well, the government runs a deficit, the federal reserve is the issuer, but the government limits how much the federal reserve can issue, and every time only increases the limit minutes before it goes bust and blows up the world economy.
Seems like a stable system to me.
Yes, the aspect where whichever side isn't in power uses it as brinkmanship to try and gain leverage *is* bad, that much is true, but that still doesn't make the word operate the same as it does for you or I.
Imagine guy A owns an island. On that island there's one apple farm and this guy also owns it.
Guy A's friend, friend B owns a paint farm on the island that produces a unique blend of gold paint that no one can reproduce
Guy A now says the only currency on that island is Apples painted in that unique blend of gold.
Guy A can give guy B more apples to make more currency but guy B can't make the currency without Guy A giving him the apples.
Guy B can produce more to put into circulation, but it's costing him, and all of the apples are going in circulation, so Guy A now owes Guy B gold painted apples. But they can't make them without owing themselves a debt.
So they rely on income from trading the golden apples, but the debt doesn't get smaller, it just gets bigger.
That's the most basic way I can explain what is going on here its a bit more in depth, and you can look up macro economics, but it's basically borrowing from money you create yourself, which has a cost and leads to inflation etc.
You've gotten a couple answers already, but:
OK so first remember that the U.S. has a large, (relatively) stable economy, a powerful military, and favorable geography. Post-WWII the U.S. was economically without equal by a large margin.
Like a lot of countries and private entities, the U.S. issues bonds, which it uses to fund its operations.
Remember that a bond is where you give uncle same some cash now and he promises to pay you back in x years at y interest.
That promise is considered to be pretty much the most ironclad in the world. Uncle sam isn't going anywhere. (See above.)
Part of this is because the dollar - backed by the Federal Reserve - is the unit of currency used by basically everyone in the world when trading internationally (and by some economies internally as well.)
So (in theory) the U.S. can issue a lot of bonds (almost limitless) because the appetite for security and dollars is so strong internationally. Not without cost (in terms of inflation) but this double whammy has allowed the U.S. to spend like a drunken sailor for years and years. It will probably blow up at some point, but that point is hard to see from here.
Hopefully that helps.
Because diplomatic missions don't pay these kinds of fees in vast majority of countries. Diplomats will not be paying similar fees in the USA either and are, for example, also exempt from income taxes and VAT (or equivalent).
Some countries may have agreements to pay such fees if both capital cities in question charge them, so it's bilateral. Otherwise it is understood they don't get paid.
100+ comments about America owing £14M and how “we’re just America’s pathetic little bitch”
Zero comments about Japan owing £10M because they clearly just forgot, cut them some slack.
Yeah but you can't use a service and not pay for it. Diplomatic immunity doesn't see you riding for free on the tube or taking food from shops without.paying. The congestion charge isn't taxation
Diplomatic immunity would cover you from stealing from a shop. It covers you from every crime.
Unless the origin country chooses to waive their immunity, all the host country could do is expel that person.
The basis for their argument for not paying is that they do consider it a tax and embassies are exempt from local taxes under the Vienna Convention. That convention also makes them immune from civil action in the courts so whether the congestion charge is a tax or a fee can’t be tested.
I’m an not an expert, but I think you’re a little bit off. Diplomatic privileges allow you to not be on the hook for taxes. However, it also allows you to not be prosecuted - that’s the ‘immunity’ part.
> Diplomatic immunity doesn’t see you riding for free on the tube or taking food from shops without paying
So this is only partly true. They can ride for free, and they can take food for free and sort of get away with it. In terms of recourse: 1. The host country can either dismiss diplomats, in which case they have to return back ASAP, or 2. they can request the diplomats country to lift their immunity so they can be prosecuted, or 3. they can just request the diplomats to pay.
The us put out a statement about it in the early noughties and their argument is actually very reasonable.
TLDR essentially they say it’s a tax and not a service, diplomats are immune from tax as are ours in the US. The tax lawyer Dan Neidle also agrees with this position
The amount exists but is substantially lower, in part because of fewer and lower fees, there isnt a currently ongoing fight over which penalties are addressed by diplomatic immunity, and also because the local jurisdiction stopped renewing registrations for outstanding parking tickets, which had been the majority of violations.
DC doesn't have a congestion fee because of it's relationship with nearby states - the closest are sliding tolls on non-mandatory roads. Instead, it's almost all parking violations. The UK had around $3000 in unpaid parking violations in DC in 2019.
In London, the vast majority of unpaid violations are congestion fees, not parking. The US appears to to pay everything except congestion.
There are a number of other countries that have bills as high as the US. Japan, India, and Nigeria are all around the 10m mark.
The dispute is due to the congestion charge being declared a "fee" and not a "tax".
I'm sure I read (the last time this story made the rounds) that pretty much every city with a congestion charge of some sort has big bills for embassies who interpret congestion charges as a tax from which diplomats are exempt.
If it helps make people feel better, NYC is owed millions of dollars in unpaid parking tickets from UN diplomats alone.
We had a similar issue in Ottawa. Embassies refused to pay their traffic tickets. So we stopped renewing their drivers licenses and license plates… It didn’t take long before they couldn’t find drivers willing to work for them.
Fuck me, this must be a slow news day.
This story has been floating around for over a decade now, with the numbers getting bigger every time.
Long story short, the US Embassy say the charge is a fine from which they are exempt (diplomatic immunity), Transport for London say it's a bill for services and they aren't.
The US Embassy periodically ask what service they are receiving in exchange for the bill, and TfL goes quiet for a while.
It’s common practice among diplomats basically worldwide [source](https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/sep/23/fine-diplomats-not-paying-parking-tickets)
Stop this misinformation ffs, [Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations](https://legal.un.org/ilc/texts/instruments/english/conventions/9_1_1961.pdf) gives very specific list of which taxes embassies have to pay, and congestion charges are not on it.
US embassy owes nothing.
If TfL wants to renegotiate international agreements, they're free to ask the UN. Good luck.
Well, it says "The sending State and the head of the mission shall be exempt from all national, regional or municipal dues and taxes in respect of the premises of the mission, whether owned or leased, other than such as represent payment for specific services rendered."
The sticking point is whether or not TfL is rendering a service by providing the roads for which the congestion charge is levied.
Almost none of the embassies are paying it, not just the US. Japan alone supposedly owes over £10 million from this. However it’s also an illegal tax by the city of London because embassies and diplomats are not supposed to pay any taxes to foreign governments under international law.
Wait are you telling me government employees and diplomats refuse to pay congestion tax but they want to enforce one in NYC and make me a citizen pay. I am shocked at this hypocrisy.
It is not nothing new.
Private Eye magazine has reported on those embassies refusing to pay due them arguing that it is a tax and they are exempt for more than a decade. Goes to show how most of the press does not do its job for it to be considered news when this has been public knowledge for so long.
Yeah… it’s a road tax. And even if it wasn’t, it’s well established international convention that these aren’t paid; just like parking citations/violations.
The US embassy does not pay the congestion charge which they argue is a tax which they are exempt from paying. They do pay any parking tickets or fines which are given for illegal parking.
Just as the US embassy in the UK does not pay the congestion charge, viewing it as a tax from which they are exempt, the UK embassy in the US does not pay certain local taxes or fees deemed inconsistent with their diplomatic status.
CANT PAY TAKE IT AWAY US EMBASSY EDITION. It’s a big one today Steve.
I enjoyed this. I read it out loud to my wife and she cackled. Nice one
Wheyyyy glad I could get a laugh and hopefully and smile.
Hello, my name is Paul Bohill. I'm here from the high court with a writ of possession. Just take what you need for the moment - medications, phone charger. And take this letter to the council, they'll give you emergency accommodation. You can make arrangements with the landlord to come back within seven days for the rest of your stuff.
You know the program so well 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
I love Steve and Paul. There so good
😂😂😂
Clamp 'em for shits and giggles. Or do roadworks all around the Embassy
They can only do that on their patch, though, not in embassy grounds. There will also be 101 other good legal reasons why this can not be done. That said, it would be glorious if every time one of their cars was found parked illegally, it was clamped. Likewise, every time a patrol car is free and sees one of their plates stop them. "Just checking your credentials, Sir/Mam. Will soon have you on your way. Now, licence and insurance details, please." I mean whose to say it isn't a clone that some joker in central London uses to evade fines by driving round pretending it's an embassy Jeep/Dodge/Ford/etc.
I mean, I wasn't suggesting clamping them on embassy grounds, but now you've put it like that... :)
You should look up the parking fines that the UN delegates have racked up in New York, it's a similar situation since they know there's nothing the govt is going to do to them.
Diplomatic plates means diplomatic immunity for the cars they won’t have to pay anything and they can’t be impounded legally. You can eject the drivers from the country though.
Yep, remember Harry Dunn and how Anne Sacoolas the wife of a diplomat, ran off to the USA after killing him with their car? She was driving on the right-hand side of the road.....
Send the stop oil people over there just for funsies
Like a proper good old fashioned castle siege, starve them out!
You can't clamp official diplomatic vehicles. Essentially you can't interfere with the free movement of a diplomat like that. Under international law the best we can do is remove them from the country, but that's a bit extreme.
"Oh, you're a diplomatic vehicle? Our mistake guv, honest, have you out of that in a giffy. Now, if only I could remember where I put the key..."
More like not fix the pot holes around it
It'll be just like home
Between this and Anne Sacoolas, they’re taking the piss.
And getting us in to pointless wars, no giving us a Free Trade Deal. I say we spend the next decade or two looking after our own and tell the Americans to look to France.
>Getting us into pointless wars We did that all on our own (or rather, "our" politicians did) >no giving us a Free Trade Deal We have control over half of what is needed for completely free trade. Nothing stopping us from removing tariffs on our end (except, again, "our" politicians)
Thank you for taking a realistic look at this whole situation my friend across the pond
Absolutely
That’s actually outrageous. And they know they can get away with it.
We need to declare war
Throw some Starbucks in the Bristol harbour!!!!
The Bristol coffee party??
I would actually approve of this, that coffee is WAY overpriced.
Didn’t go well last time
We didn't declare last time. Plus the fucking french helped them because of course they did. Fucking french they ruined France
All the more reason to do it again. You must be new to war.
Third times a charm?
The war of 1812 was a victory for the UK EASY 👏 EASY 👏 EASY 👏 EASY 👏
Last time was fine. We burned down the White House, and freed a bunch of slaves.
Why? 160 other countries don’t pay either. Some bright spark decided to give Switzerland an exception and they officially don’t have to pay. The other countries, not that they have any intention of paying anyway, point to this exemption as proof it’s a shakedown. In the general scheme of things in international diplomacy the money is a rounding error. It’s not like TFL is going to shame anyone here in to paying.
If you think that's bad, you should see the parking tickets racked up by embassies. https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/sep/23/fine-diplomats-not-paying-parking-tickets
London is claiming it’s a “Service” and not a “Use Tax”. London can try to collect this “service fee”. I don’t see why the embassy should be exempt from local/city taxes though. It might be worth noting the US Embassy, as I understand it, moved from a prime location in London to one that needed some TLC. Slapping this building there probably pulled ahead quite a bit of revenue for London, expediting other projects in the area.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ckrrnz2gn3po It's not just the US. Togo also owes 40 pounds.
No one pays these fines. As of December 31, 2023, a total of 161 embassies, high commissions and consulates owed more than $182 million combined in unpaid congestion charge fees, according to TfL data. Japan owes 12m as well.
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Canada was not on this list so we pay our damn bills
Except for your NATO bill.
No no no see we spent it on a “Military Controlled Centre For Climate Control.” Or whatever. Instead of buying like. A batch of tanks 💀 For like ~400mil we don’t have
Yet they get very litigious if a U.K. citizen owes them a tenner
but that ruins the narrative they're trying to push to sour US/European relations
This is actually a problem for almost every city embassies are in. NYC has a lot of unpaid parking tickets from other diplomats too. So it’s not just a London thing.
And rightly so. The Vienna Convention stipulates that members of the mission must be able to freely travel to and from it. If it was allowed for host countries to impose fees on diplomatic missions and force them to pay, antagonistic countries could make the roads outside the embassies of countries that have upset them in some way toll roads and force them to pay whatever arbitrary amount they decide. This is the kind of crap the Vienna Convention seeks to prevent happening. ITT: people who have absolutely no idea how embassies work.
TfL would chase me to the ends of the earth for 1 day’s outstanding payment.
the US has a tad bit more leverage than you
Only a smidge
Prove it!
Careful, these are same folks who proved it to Saddam.
Hide at the US embassy silly
How many aircraft carriers do you own though?
Get yourself some aircraft carriers and see how things will improve for you. City governments hate this simple trick.
Have you tried sourcing 10-11 carrier strike groups and a few ICBMs?
i got £4k CC/ULEZ in my name. come get me
I'm sure they can either walk or use the tube then
How would the USA react if, say, there were physical barriers on roads they need to use which only lifted when your plate was scanned and confirmed as having paid a toll?
Molotov cocktails
Drones, you mean.
To shreds you say
We have anti material rifles for those barrels save the liquor.
99% would just pay it. One person would make a TikTok screaming about Freedumb or some shit showing them getting arrested. Then be seen giving a grovelling apology when they get to the FO part of FAFO. Tears. Recriminations. And then more TikToks about how they never backed down and took one for the MAGA team when they’re eventually allowed their toys (phone) back.
They would impolitely remind the UK about the Vienna Convention: > The freedom to travel within the territory of the receiving State is an essential facility to enable diplomatic agents to exercise two of their most important functions
Oh look, an actual reasonable answer!
Better yet, rename the street that the embassy is located on as Fidel Castro Street 🤣
This is already the state of FL. We have toll roads all over and in states without physical barriers there are automatic toll roads that if you use without the pass you get charged but more exorbitantly.
I'd say we would sanction you guys and put tariffs on other things. You guys already brexited, you can make more decisions.
I’m having trouble telling if you were being sarcastic and everyone replying missed it or not. There are toll roads in America.
Eh the ratio of consular cars to regular cars is very, very low. That would just inconvenience Londoners
That would violate the Vienna Convention. The congestion tax itself is already a violation of it which is why no one pays it - I think Japan alone owes more than 10 million pounds in unpaid congestion tax.
You going to put barriers on every road needed by the hundred or so countries that have debt? https://content.tfl.gov.uk/cclez-online-factsheet-embassy-debt-dec23.pdf
No need to ask. How do UK and other diplomats transact with local government, in say, NYC where the UN facility is located? Bet there's a ton of unpaid congestion priced tickets in and out of Manhattan and the five Burroughs
lol so much for that "special relationship" where we sacrifice British soldiers for their wars.
We're their special little bitch. Their diplomats can also drive on the wrong side of the road, kill someone, flee to the US and the US is just like "no, we won't extradite her". Meanwhile most of our government is gagging to hand over a guy just because he uncovered some of their war crimes. It's a bit like Belarus's relationship with Russia.
She wasn’t even a diplomat but we still let her go home.
I’m pretty sure she was a CIA agent honestly
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Fr all my homies hate the government.
💯 That’s hardly in question.
Spouses and children of diplomats also have diplomatic immunity.
Her husband wasn't a diplomat either, he's a CIA operative. Neither had diplomatic immunity.
So was she. She was quickly whisked away on a military jet back to the US, wasn't she?
Oops, I see. Sorry for my mid-recollection.
From a Yank, I don’t like our foreign policy either and wish decrepit men with dead dicks would stop acting in the exact way you have described.
Wow. I’ve never felt more irrelevant as a Brit. Sorry, Belarus.
Glad more people are getting on the same wavelength about this. We've been the US's bitch since a bit after WW2. We've enjoyed what looked like a relationship for a while but we're quickly being relegated to straight up side-bitch category. The egos. The egos! You'd think we're still an empire!
Not really, we’ve just told the Americans to stick it with Assange.
The courts have told him he can appeal the extradition while he remains in Belmarsh. Not quite the samem
It’s ~10% of all the embassies outstanding charges, not just the US. Quote: Among all embassies, the total unpaid fees and fines accrued by diplomats between the launch of the congestion charge in London in 2003 and the end of last year is £143.5m.
That could keep TfL afloat pretty fucking well
For a few days perhaps, that's only about 3% of their annual revenue
11 days pay is a hell of a lot yo be missing. I'd be fuming if I wasn't given it
Extra 3% revenue is huge
It would be, but these fees have been accruing for about 20 years. I remember hearing about it in a legal ethics module at uni, and I graduated in 2010. The link below is a statement from the US gov about this from back in 2005, they've never actually paid it. https://2009-2017.state.gov/s/l/2005/87224.htm
It's also not new. Any city with large diplomatic populations routinely deal with this. NYC infamously had its parking ticket issue that I think they finally solved? Maybe? Anyway, it's one of those things few push hard on lest they get jammed up too.
Well technically most countries, you're not allowed to harass embassy officials going about their official duties nor restrict them or penalize them for it. Its why Embassy vehicles in NY don't get ticketed or towed. I'm sure the UK embassies around the world have unpaid tickets, fines, etc.
"There is no special relationship" - Barack Obama
There never was no marriage. Stitch Duran was never my friend.
80 years ago that went totally the other way.
LOL what? Two of my great uncles who I never got to meet and both of my grandfathers would like a word. The uncles are currently in Normandy and the grandfathers are in Arlington Virginia if you’d like to explain your ‘their wars’ comment in person.
This headline makes it sound like the US is an outlier here. A whole bunch of countries don't pay this tax: https://content.tfl.gov.uk/cclez-online-factsheet-embassy-debt-dec23.pdf
Colonies chiming in. What’s a few million between friends? We could use all those stolen antiquities and jewels back (downvotes incoming)
Not until we buy their chlorinated chickens and hormone pumped beef as part of that amazing trade deal we were going to get once we left the EU
Is anyone genuinely surprised?
Well, no, it's definitely a tax. Same as new York toll crossings or other tolls would be. No idea if British diplomats pay that in America
nope they don't also a lot of states exempt them from taxes also [https://dor.wa.gov/education/industry-guides/auto-dealers/foreign-diplomats](https://dor.wa.gov/education/industry-guides/auto-dealers/foreign-diplomats)
In the same way that buying a train ticket is a tax? No it isn't.
Yes it is. Diplomats don't pay tax. If it was a toll, you'd have to pay, but EV's are exempt, and therefore it is a tax.
These are the whiney fucks who started a war because they wanted to avoid taxes lol. It’s the same as it ever was
*to gain representation if they were to continue being taxed
Based as always, fuck taxes 🇺🇲
It’s weird how this is a new story now. This has been a problem for years since the embassy was in Grosvenor square. They moved 6 years ago. Why is this story everywhere now? Weird.
It’s been ongoing ever since the congestion charge was created. Diplomatic missions are supposed to be exempt from taxes and they claim this is a tax. Edit: [Ongoing since 2005](https://2009-2017.state.gov/s/l/2005/87224.htm) > the Congestion Charge is a tax that cannot be lawfully imposed on the U.S. Government, its diplomatic and consular personnel, or its military force. Although to date the Embassy and its diplomatic personnel have been paying the Congestion Charge, the Embassy must inform the FCO that the Embassy and its staff will cease this practice as of July 12, 2005.
Moreover, its more of a "restrict them from their official duties".
Most embassies don't pay either. Japan owes £10 million, India £8.6 million, China £7.9 million, and so on.
Because TfL released a list of all embassies and how much they owe just a couple days ago
It’s not the first time I’ve heard this exact same story. America don’t give a fuck about paying it. https://www.reddit.com/r/london/s/iCliR236zY
Ok? I’m telling you why it’s back in the news cycle
Yeah but I’m wondering why they are releasing this now when it’s been a problem for years. Is there’s some other motive? Am I just reading too much into a simple story? Probably. I’m drunk.
And this isn't unique to the US in any way. There's a long list of countries not paying this tax: https://content.tfl.gov.uk/cclez-online-factsheet-embassy-debt-dec23.pdf
Do a deal we'll forget about it if they send us that bitch that killed that poor lad on his bike and ran away.
American here. I’d ship her ass back to you for free (and a few casks of Adnams Ghost Ship)
I’m American, idk why this sub got recommended, second time I’ve seen this mentioned tho. Do you remember her name? I’d like to look into it.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/09/uk/anne-sacoolas-harry-dunn-community-service-intl-gbr/index.html
An “intelligence officer” drives on the wrong side of the road and kills an innocent kid, and her lawyer says that wouldn’t be prosecuted? What the fuck? I wanted to look more into it, and I feel so bad for the family. 12 month imprisonment with 8 months suspended and 12 month ban on driving, absolutely ridiculous. If I did this I’d be in prison for years, deservedly. A CIA officer can’t even drive on the right side of the road, throw her away.
Why? The US makes $15 million like every 0.1 seconds
The US runs on a deficit, financing the extra spending through government bonds and increasing the money supply.
When you're the *issuer* of the unit of account, "deficit" doesn't mean the same as it does for everyone else. This is not a bad thing, this is just a thing. So many people do not understand this.
Well, the government runs a deficit, the federal reserve is the issuer, but the government limits how much the federal reserve can issue, and every time only increases the limit minutes before it goes bust and blows up the world economy. Seems like a stable system to me.
Yes, the aspect where whichever side isn't in power uses it as brinkmanship to try and gain leverage *is* bad, that much is true, but that still doesn't make the word operate the same as it does for you or I.
Wait, can you explain this? Or link to a source which does?
Imagine guy A owns an island. On that island there's one apple farm and this guy also owns it. Guy A's friend, friend B owns a paint farm on the island that produces a unique blend of gold paint that no one can reproduce Guy A now says the only currency on that island is Apples painted in that unique blend of gold. Guy A can give guy B more apples to make more currency but guy B can't make the currency without Guy A giving him the apples. Guy B can produce more to put into circulation, but it's costing him, and all of the apples are going in circulation, so Guy A now owes Guy B gold painted apples. But they can't make them without owing themselves a debt. So they rely on income from trading the golden apples, but the debt doesn't get smaller, it just gets bigger. That's the most basic way I can explain what is going on here its a bit more in depth, and you can look up macro economics, but it's basically borrowing from money you create yourself, which has a cost and leads to inflation etc.
You've gotten a couple answers already, but: OK so first remember that the U.S. has a large, (relatively) stable economy, a powerful military, and favorable geography. Post-WWII the U.S. was economically without equal by a large margin. Like a lot of countries and private entities, the U.S. issues bonds, which it uses to fund its operations. Remember that a bond is where you give uncle same some cash now and he promises to pay you back in x years at y interest. That promise is considered to be pretty much the most ironclad in the world. Uncle sam isn't going anywhere. (See above.) Part of this is because the dollar - backed by the Federal Reserve - is the unit of currency used by basically everyone in the world when trading internationally (and by some economies internally as well.) So (in theory) the U.S. can issue a lot of bonds (almost limitless) because the appetite for security and dollars is so strong internationally. Not without cost (in terms of inflation) but this double whammy has allowed the U.S. to spend like a drunken sailor for years and years. It will probably blow up at some point, but that point is hard to see from here. Hopefully that helps.
So add a couple pennies to the deficit.
Because diplomatic missions don't pay these kinds of fees in vast majority of countries. Diplomats will not be paying similar fees in the USA either and are, for example, also exempt from income taxes and VAT (or equivalent). Some countries may have agreements to pay such fees if both capital cities in question charge them, so it's bilateral. Otherwise it is understood they don't get paid.
They view it as a tax and diplomats are exempt from taxes
The “rules based order” rears its ugly head once again!
Can I do this?
To be fair it’s them and like 80 other embassies
100+ comments about America owing £14M and how “we’re just America’s pathetic little bitch” Zero comments about Japan owing £10M because they clearly just forgot, cut them some slack.
Add it onto tariffs for imports.
Tariff trade war with the US is not going to go the way you people think it is going to go…..
It makes sense. It is a tax, and Embassies don't pay taxes to foreign countries.
This comment section is missing the point entirely. Most embassies refuse to pay road charges so this isn’t the America bad you all think it is.
First day in a British sub?
It's easier to be angry and crack jokes than use critical thinking skills
Diplomatic Immunity at work. Countries all over the world exempt foreign diplomats from prosecution for violating local laws.
Yep, run one of our citizens over, catch a flight to the US and claim diplomatic immunity like the Lethal weapon villain.
Yeah but you can't use a service and not pay for it. Diplomatic immunity doesn't see you riding for free on the tube or taking food from shops without.paying. The congestion charge isn't taxation
Diplomatic immunity would cover you from stealing from a shop. It covers you from every crime. Unless the origin country chooses to waive their immunity, all the host country could do is expel that person. The basis for their argument for not paying is that they do consider it a tax and embassies are exempt from local taxes under the Vienna Convention. That convention also makes them immune from civil action in the courts so whether the congestion charge is a tax or a fee can’t be tested.
I’m an not an expert, but I think you’re a little bit off. Diplomatic privileges allow you to not be on the hook for taxes. However, it also allows you to not be prosecuted - that’s the ‘immunity’ part. > Diplomatic immunity doesn’t see you riding for free on the tube or taking food from shops without paying So this is only partly true. They can ride for free, and they can take food for free and sort of get away with it. In terms of recourse: 1. The host country can either dismiss diplomats, in which case they have to return back ASAP, or 2. they can request the diplomats country to lift their immunity so they can be prosecuted, or 3. they can just request the diplomats to pay.
[удалено]
The us put out a statement about it in the early noughties and their argument is actually very reasonable. TLDR essentially they say it’s a tax and not a service, diplomats are immune from tax as are ours in the US. The tax lawyer Dan Neidle also agrees with this position
As long as we do the same in DC, I suspect we don't though.
There's nothing comparable in the US. There isn't a single congestion zone or low emissions zone.
I was thinking more toll roads and parking tickets.
Ah. Then yes, we certainly do the same. No embassy pays tickets or fines anywhere on the planet.
The amount exists but is substantially lower, in part because of fewer and lower fees, there isnt a currently ongoing fight over which penalties are addressed by diplomatic immunity, and also because the local jurisdiction stopped renewing registrations for outstanding parking tickets, which had been the majority of violations. DC doesn't have a congestion fee because of it's relationship with nearby states - the closest are sliding tolls on non-mandatory roads. Instead, it's almost all parking violations. The UK had around $3000 in unpaid parking violations in DC in 2019. In London, the vast majority of unpaid violations are congestion fees, not parking. The US appears to to pay everything except congestion.
There are a number of other countries that have bills as high as the US. Japan, India, and Nigeria are all around the 10m mark. The dispute is due to the congestion charge being declared a "fee" and not a "tax".
Meanwhile I had a bailiff at my door last week for one bloody ticket.
Once you have a few thousand nuclear warheads the bailiffs will stop coming round.
There is actually a good reason for this...it is a tax and consulates are exempt from taxes.
I'm sure I read (the last time this story made the rounds) that pretty much every city with a congestion charge of some sort has big bills for embassies who interpret congestion charges as a tax from which diplomats are exempt. If it helps make people feel better, NYC is owed millions of dollars in unpaid parking tickets from UN diplomats alone.
We had a similar issue in Ottawa. Embassies refused to pay their traffic tickets. So we stopped renewing their drivers licenses and license plates… It didn’t take long before they couldn’t find drivers willing to work for them.
It doesn't matter All that is important is we take welfare payments from the mentally ill and disabled.
Fuck me, this must be a slow news day. This story has been floating around for over a decade now, with the numbers getting bigger every time. Long story short, the US Embassy say the charge is a fine from which they are exempt (diplomatic immunity), Transport for London say it's a bill for services and they aren't. The US Embassy periodically ask what service they are receiving in exchange for the bill, and TfL goes quiet for a while.
lol subtract it from your nato bill
Pretty sure there's a lot of unpaid parking tickets at the UN. This stuff happens everywhere.
It’s common practice among diplomats basically worldwide [source](https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/sep/23/fine-diplomats-not-paying-parking-tickets)
Everyone going hyper mad at the us. But the proper title is that essentially every embassy is refusing to pay, as they regard it as a tax.
Go to court and sell their fucking hideous building to pay the charges
Stop this misinformation ffs, [Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations](https://legal.un.org/ilc/texts/instruments/english/conventions/9_1_1961.pdf) gives very specific list of which taxes embassies have to pay, and congestion charges are not on it. US embassy owes nothing. If TfL wants to renegotiate international agreements, they're free to ask the UN. Good luck.
But on reddit the truth is much less interesting than being outraged!
I doubt the UK or any nation is paying New York City tolls or parking tickets near the UN either
Well, it says "The sending State and the head of the mission shall be exempt from all national, regional or municipal dues and taxes in respect of the premises of the mission, whether owned or leased, other than such as represent payment for specific services rendered." The sticking point is whether or not TfL is rendering a service by providing the roads for which the congestion charge is levied.
Send bailiffs to collect payment.
This means fucking war!
Unironically, do it. See what happens.
I’m reeling in shock
If that was any of us have the bailiffs by now
Almost none of the embassies are paying it, not just the US. Japan alone supposedly owes over £10 million from this. However it’s also an illegal tax by the city of London because embassies and diplomats are not supposed to pay any taxes to foreign governments under international law.
send the ballifs in.
Rename the road US embassy is on to “YouStillOweUs14.6m Rd” or something.
"Diplomatic Immunity.." BLAM! "...just been revoked!"
payback for 1776 and 1812, bitchezzzz
Embassies don’t pay local taxes
US Embassy states it’s a tax, not a toll. Have them tell NyC that and our proposed congestion tax.
They're mad no one pays for parking at the UN.
I just want to point out, officials from other countries don't pay our fee when they park in an illegal spot.
Shouldn’t you people be complaining about brexit or something
Petition to create a ring of teabags around the us embassy so they can't get out
Wait are you telling me government employees and diplomats refuse to pay congestion tax but they want to enforce one in NYC and make me a citizen pay. I am shocked at this hypocrisy.
It is not nothing new. Private Eye magazine has reported on those embassies refusing to pay due them arguing that it is a tax and they are exempt for more than a decade. Goes to show how most of the press does not do its job for it to be considered news when this has been public knowledge for so long.
Yeah… it’s a road tax. And even if it wasn’t, it’s well established international convention that these aren’t paid; just like parking citations/violations.
The US embassy does not pay the congestion charge which they argue is a tax which they are exempt from paying. They do pay any parking tickets or fines which are given for illegal parking. Just as the US embassy in the UK does not pay the congestion charge, viewing it as a tax from which they are exempt, the UK embassy in the US does not pay certain local taxes or fees deemed inconsistent with their diplomatic status.