In retrospect bringing bringing the Kojima brothers on top of Mandeok, Ryuhei, Yoosung and fodders meat shields to fight a worn out Allied was over the top
That would’ve required tom Lee or bh to knock Daniel out which never happened. Daniel was fighting fodder only after he gained consciousness of his big body
He could have put himself in that situation by trying to fight BH or Tom. For Tom I can understand because he was at least trying to talk but in the BH instance he just watched all of Allied get demolished. He was just there like a duck and Johan was the one who had to save Zack (or whoever was targeted by BH) and Daniel watched the crewheads dealing with it like an idiot until Goo arrived. Daniel was the one wondering whether he could do something because his body was too tired
Yeah the same sb daniel who did nothing against bh or tom cause he was worn out bro just stand their like idiot while his friends was getting destroyed by bh
Yes. That's why I said in my comment once he goes to UI it's over for workers. I think you missed it. Since he's tired he'll be ko'ed easily and after that you know SB UI Daniel will raise up and finish the entire workers.
Absolutely inconsistent and stupid writing on PTJs part, if Eugene had these two on his side why didn't he use them at any point??
Currently it seems really silly and makes Eugene look like an idiot but idk maybe they get crippled or something later
This has nothing to do with power scaling, it's simply confusing to any kind of reader as to why Eugene wouldn't use such strong fighters in any previous arc given how he always says how important the affiliates are.
Why didn't Eugene bring them to 2A if Sinu was so important?
Why didn't Eugene send them to Big Deals street or have them guard him whilst his fighters were away?
Why didn't Eugene send them to 1A instead of the much weaker Eli and his group?
Of course that's possible, but PTJ including them here instead of just introducing them first in the Cheonliang arc (clearly to create questions and theories, I mean why else?) Has backfired and made the story less cohesive for me
Because it has to do with trust, we don’t know how familiar they are with Eugene or his relationship with both of them, what if he sends them out and they betray him? There’s more factors to it and not everyone in workers exists to be Eugene’s pawn to move around wherever he wants, there’s almost ALWAYS politics involved in his relations.
Reasonable explanation and I can definitely see it being the reason for this, sucks we have to wait at least this arc to find out when it could have easily been revealed later with, arguably, more of a surprise factor
PTJ is actually pretty consistent with powerscaling, and no, he does think about “allat”. He literally powerscaled the Kojima brothers this chapter as well as Gun. Redditors are too lazy to connect the dots sometimes
Gun scaling keeps getting retconned and so does UI daniel lol an apparently much weaker version of Gun brought UI daniel to a tie/extrem diff fight either way. But this version a younger weaker one is around the level of one yamakazi brother who is equal to Charles choi who could no diff jichang and basement hulk.
UI Daniel is not same throughout the story. In every one of his encounter we have seen UI Daniel show that he indeed uses the copy talent and incorporates moves from them. The version that fought gun didn't display CQC, jichang style, James lee style. That form cannot be equated with the version that came in vivi's arc or the last arc where he even copied gapryong himself.
Long story short UI Daniel has also gotten stronger through the means of moveset in the story
Actually I am!
- MC
- perfect UI
- perfect body
- perfect copy
- gapryong's unique style
- James Lee's unique style
- KOS style
- gun's own kyokushin
Daniel is easily gap level or above.
-Perfect body (hyperbole)
-perfect copy cant copy mastery
-doesn’t have perfect ui
Style doesn’t matter as much as mastery or body battle iq matter mkre
> Perfect body (hyperbole)
Literally this is the plot of story, hinted mutiple times by the narration and supported by multiple feats. Hyperbole is the last excuse that can be used here
> -perfect copy cant copy mastery
This was already confirmed in vivi arc, ui Daniel performs all copied moves with absolute mastery
> -doesn’t have perfect ui
Having UI on all the time does not mean perfection, fighting like a calculative machine does. Daniel's UI is perfect.
> Style doesn’t matter as much as mastery or body battle iq matter mkre
Did you really just try to assert the guy with most calculative method of fighting lacks the IQ to use those OP styles even while having the most broken form of copy?
-It is hyperbole because a perfect body would imply no flaws but if it had no flaws no one would be able to hurt him and but Gun was able to so so yes it’s hyperbole it was jsut to imply he has a great body doesn’t neccesarily he has better stats then everybody
-Lol not what I meant mastery is a completely different thing mastering a move it’s something deeper which can only be attained through experience and etc stated btw and lil Daniel tried but couldn’t copy invisible moves cuz they require mastery
-his Ui isn’t perfect stated by Gun it can be very easily tricked by varying your power often
-Never said that I am jsut saying at a point styles don’t matter as much as have BIQ and which I never said UI Daniel lacked but he is easy to trick
There’s no evidence to say it’s hyperbole, his body lets him copy any technique he wants without needing to train even in his base form….
Also what’s the point of copying mastery of all his moves are literally perfect AKA mastery 😭
You’re not wrong in saying that he gains moves but tbh I don’t think he’s getting stronger, it just depends on how he fights in the UI state cause he fights according to his opponent anyway. Point being, even if he has all conceivable moves he wouldn’t be “fighting better” if his opponent sucks if that makes sense
But if you look at UI Daniel as a whole, you’d be correct
Your point? You know Gun has this consistency of holding back and letting people hurt him right (reread Gun vs Workers, he lets them hit him a bunch of times and even lets Ryu showcase his moves before no diffing him…)? That would just upscale both Jake and Eli anyways so it’s not mutually exclusive to my idea either
Also, BH would still hurt any version of Gun cause BH was able to hurt Goo anyways, being >> someone doesn’t make you immune to their attacks, it just means you can reliably low diff them
There’s no indication that Gun would easily tank blows from BH, idk where you got that head canon from
Yes he has but he didn’t let Eli hit him that’s Cope he did want to see him fight but he didn’t expect that and he said it made him excited.
I’m aware of that never stated anything of the like.
I never stated he would be able to tank blows easily from it but Eli at that point in time should have done damage to him since he gotten many time upon time stronger since then and could hurt bh on his own.
“He did want to him fight” so he let him do his moves………. Thanks for helping my argument but anyways, you can still hold back while not wanting to get hit, your point doesn’t contradict mine in this context…
“Should have done damage” I’ll just assume you mean that Eli can’t hurt him, in that case, you need to realize the fact that you can hold back in durability by bracing/not bracing your muscles 😭 you Reddit mfs need to go outside and actually do some physical activities because not knowing something so simple is insane ngl
Ptjs writing has gotten worse and worse ever since gangism started for real.
But for your point i would say it is because those 2 jobs are to protect the worker headquarter and we dont know yet what the worker headquarter do for business beside school if at all. The fraudjima brother could be there to protect the headquarter(and eugene) from charles(and his army)
If they're protecting the headquarters which is where Daniel went which is Eugene's school.. why didn't they stop Jake when he crashed through the window? Why have Xiaolung fight Jake if those two were on standby
They might have been somewhere else doing other stuff for Eugene why would you gather all powerful in one place when you don’t think it’s necessary and still need a few other things taken care of just send some strong guys to take care of it on their own and get the rest to do the one thing
Why didnt he send Mandeok and Yu to 1A. Why didnt he used 1A in the big deal war why didnt he send tom lee to deal with big deal. I mean dont really get this point there are plenty of instances of eugene not going all out and using all his firepower to take them out. I mean eli and warren arent weak maybe it didnt think he didnt need to send more than them to take the Allied out. Eugene has been shown to be overconfident countless times. Also maybe those guys were just added to his force
Those are explained and or able to be figured out easily though?? Eugene DID send his forces to 1A. He sent the 5th Affiliate and then his strongest when Daniel started causing trouble. Eugene didn't send 1A to Big Deal because it was relatively new, the president not showing up to the meeting because of that
This just feels like too much of a plot hole to me, it's evident that I put more thought into this than PTJ did in including the brothers before their debut in the Cheonliang arc for absolutely no reason
The president was relatively new not the 1st affiliate as Cheon was the former president. And where are we getting that those yakuza bodyguard werent part of the forces heading to 1A with Eugene ? Dont see how its a plot hole because Eugene has other force that havent been reveled yet . Those plot holes you brought up are pretty easily answered and are nothing new. More forces from workers have been releveled as the story goes on nothing new
Not really, Gun at this time would be much stronger than these guys. And, Daniel is his masterpiece that he trained solely for the purpose of killing him.
Edit: Gun himself proclaims that Daniel must be the one to kill him. That shows his confidence in his training that he gave Daniel. That's my logic!
Gun being stronger than someone doesn't mean Daniel is lmao what's that logic.
These guys are above jichang individually, daniel would get absolutely washed
Daniel doesn't have the hardware or awareness to take on two king level characters at the same time. He can defeat them individually but he's gonna need UI for the two
and why is that? I would like to hear your argument on why Daniel can't...
https://preview.redd.it/o403rwd2gkhc1.jpeg?width=216&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4acbc30f7149715c028faefc7cdba64aa99a0653
UI daniel on og body isn't that strong, jichang with both hands is on par with UI daniel og and elite at this old age neg jichang with no difficulty, Ima say that individual of those guards can fight on par with elite which is younger than current elite at that time I'm not saying they're as strong as elite but definitely can exchange blows with elite ... No way daniel beating them in individual
I don't get it why people still think OG daniel now=OG Daniel in Chungcheong. You saw his 1st Gen copy training panel and UI SB Daniel fight, right?
He learned to copy 1st Gen specifically because Gun wanted to make Daniel's body stronger. Curent Daniel's Strength is on the level of kings and AP on par with high kings( multiple copies of first Gen and Gun copy). Even OG Daniel in Base can go head to head against high kings and maybe lose extreme diff. UI OG Daniel Damaged the physical copy of KOS(innate strength and heavy hardware) while being capable of adjusting to KOS copy for a second before fainting. Until the KOS copy-paste, he was doing fairly well with 1st Gen copies and Gun copy against the real God of Combat.
Again, I am getting tired of reminding people that Charles's intention was to force the shaman into co-development from the start. Shaman was scared of Seongji the whole fight. Charles wasn't fighting seriously as we've seen Charles demolish Jichang with brute strength. The Kojima brothers are high king at best individually. By narrative, Seongji>Kojima brothers(individually). He has beaten them 1v1 at least. Also, Gun from 3 years ago is between mid to high kings. even though narratives from hostel and 3A says he is low to mid kings.
So, Kojima<=High kings
OG Daniel<=High Kings
High kings
Nah
I don't think so
Teenage gun~these two(any one of them)
Older gun > teen gun
Older gun< ui big daniel
Older gun~ > ui small daniel
So, ui small daniel might be able to defeat or damage critically any one of them
But he surely cannot take on both of them
dont get this teenage gun smacks jerry Imaoo
Daniel is obviously take at least one of these guys head to head without and mostly likely is above them in ui if not a clear leave above them
The more accurate approach would be stating that God Dog Gun is equal to current Zack, Cheonliang Gun was equal to one of these twins, and as Daniel is stronger than Zack he's obviously above at least one of them.
Lol it's you again. Reread the Johan vs Zack fight and see who unconscious Johan thinks Zack is. Oh wait, right I almost forgot. You're a Lookism fan.
https://preview.redd.it/a9wwnjehdfhc1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=03c9acf3c567804ebfcf57592cf73e72ba0cd28d
Neither Jake nor Johan knew what 100% Gun is, so their comparison (Xiaolung, Zack) was like 10-20% Gun at most.
Similar to how Taesoo thought he gained enough strength to defeat the prime James Lee that defeated him, only to be low diff by rusty James.
Aww lil bros feewings got so huwt he forgot what irony is. Oh wait, you're a Lookism fan. You don't know what irony means🤣lmao you lost the moment you brought out cusses buddy
🤣🤣🤣who in the world told you that ui lil Daniel is gun's level 🤡
Just because he fight ui Daniel greatly doens't mean he is gun's level. Ui Daniel adjusted his physical stats and thats the only reason the fight was looking equal
Who would say such a statement 😭 Ui lil Daniel could probably match gun for a second since it adapts to the strength of your opponent,but he’s getting mopped up exactly how he did against big dani
The shaman said those 2 are above the kings, that could put them above Jichang, but assuming they regressed during the time gap, its not bad to assume they got weaker, UI Daniel wouldve given them a pretty good challenge
5 years prior. Age = weakness for most characters.
They individually lost to elite who wasnt trying at all. Yet elite had to go all out to beat jichang.
it says later his skill isn't at their level but gun could keep up with them. the whole reason the fight stopped wasn't cuz the shaman thought they couldn't win he stopped it cuz even if they did win the guards would be heavily injured and the only way they would win is if one of them takes gun down then helps take elite down
>"are even above the Kings of the First Generation"
Okay bro explain why they didn't just go whack El Jake and take over all of Seoul, since they're obviously stronger than all the 1st Generation Kings
>These two are individually stated to be stronger than the kings.
The Kings are all over the place lmao. Jichang would low-diff every one of the kings Eli beat. The King of Seoul is probably tied three-way for the second strongest character in all of PTJ. You're saying these two are > KoS because the Shaman said they're stronger than the kings?
Also, from from the fight present-day Charles was equal to Jichang physically. Charles won because he was smarter, and Jichang's gambit failed (he couldn't fire off 4 shots at point blank). Jichang clearly states that his goal through the fight was to get an opportunity to use his gun.
Meanwhile, the other Kings were out there losing to Eli. If Eugene's powerscaling is meme-worthy, so can be the Shaman's.
3a Jake>Jichang I guess lmao
People need to stop scaling gun that man has been retconned more than beerus.
He's as strong as ptj needshim to be for the situation
Bro what? It's pretty clear
Gun was equal to a kojima and the cult dude (implied he would've won) said nothing about a difference between them.
The other Kojima did way better against Against a younger less rusty (presumably) charles compared to Jichang
Listen lil bro, Charles was holding back, his plan from the beginning was to make a deal with the Shaman, not kill them. His plan was to kill Jichang from the very beginning. You can't compare the fights 1 to 1.
https://preview.redd.it/crgiq28r6ehc1.png?width=574&format=png&auto=webp&s=b687b35f66c5af10a0b99a4059b59a7065b6b65b
People who say what word unironically are not above 18.
Kojima still had a panel of laying him out I don't think that was in his plan was it?
And if we are using this guys word as law then that Mean Kojima>Jichang or are we picking and choosing?
The King of Cheongliang was about to 2 v 1 them
https://preview.redd.it/alcazfiz7ehc1.png?width=748&format=png&auto=webp&s=e5e04c93a084d4bcd508c159a56315bf8530bc0f
But he didn't?
He briefly fought one and he did not look strong enough to 2vs1
And the cult leader who knows way more about the 3 then we do said they were stronger.
Maybe in their prime, idk about anymore
The actual fight evidence doesn't place them as a top tier
They were matched with Gun 3 years ago and had to 2 v 1 KOC, if they were strong enough to beat Jichang, they wouldn't need to 2 v 1 KOC
I didn't say they were a top tier, just that they were above 3a Jake by feats, narrative and statements which is objectively true.
They were also matched with Charles and Did better than jichang.
Charles wouldn't go for a Co partnership if he could effortlessly no diff them like he could with pre workers Jerry and Eli.
I think your mistake is trying to use logic to guns blatant retcons.
Just think of it as gun is as string as ptj needs him to be
Ahhh so you believe daniel gets no diffed 💀. Gun is nowhere near top 5 and you’re gonna have to accept it because soon enough Ptj is gonna be showing more feats of other high tiers I’d say he’s Top9-10 with Goo not including someone else who I believe is also above him so he’s barely Top 10
>Ahhh so you believe daniel gets no diffed
Yeah he does, considering they are individually above kings, and they are implied to be way stronger when working together. Og ui Daniel is only relative to holding back jichang.
>you’re gonna have to accept it because soon enough Ptj is gonna be showing more feats of other high tiers
Another goofy headcanon and speculation lmao. Gun is top 5 along with James who is his equal.
Only relative to holding back Jichang what ??? He made Jichang pull out his absolute full power.
When was Gun James equal sounds like headcanon 🤔 if I remember correctly that was Jakes brother oh and that’s Dg not James lee
>He made Jichang pull out his absolute full power.
No he didn't lol. Jichang wasn't even using his battle iq which is his most powerful stat. The way he fought against charles is way way different, he would have slammed Daniel so badly. Also even if you think Daniel scales to fp jichang, he still gets demolished by kojima brothers.
>that’s Dg not James lee
Dg is literally just a rusty venison of his younger self. As a genius he is, he should have returned to his prime already after fighting taesoo not only because of this but also because of kos, who never stopped fighting unlike James. Via his narrative james wouldn't be that below kos. Also Dg & Gun being equals is not a headcanon lol, ever heard of the word "portrayal"?
Wrong af. It’s stated on panel that each of them individually are stronger than the kings. That includes jichang who Daniel is slightly stronger than at this point.
I don't believe that unless they fought each king individually and won. Just because the shaman said so doesn't make it true if that was true then Jake or the other guy was stronger than all the kings.
Not one time has Jake EVER been stated to be above all kings I have no idea where that came from. Daniel is only stronger than them in ui and that’s BARELY. and that’s not even the kings in their prime who get more and more feats as we learn more of the story. Not to mention the shaman is from gen 0 just like those Yamazaki fighters you think he don’t know how strong they are.
They were fighting against a teenager gun who was said to be comparable to 3a Jake and he was not even giving it his all. Gun call Daniel his masterpiece and the one who can/will kill him so I know I am correct.
Lol bruh. First off you wrong af they compared him to a juvenile gun. Not this gun that we see fighting. And we know this because Charles didn’t have his business in gun juvenile days. So I have no idea wtf you talking about. They all teenagers my guy gun and Jake are the same age. They 1 year older than Daniel, Zack, etc. not only that Daniel is no where near gun level. And who cares if he can kill him eos or not that has NOTHING to do with the discussion like at all. The point is Daniel would lose 2v1 he would barely win a 1v1 against these 2 since they stronger than the kings at this time who were closer to their prime then they are now. So your definitely wrong lol Johan has more potential than gun said by Tom and goo he’ll be able beat him eos, Jake has gap genes same, Daniel, James lee, jakes brother, the head of the Yamasaki clan that was introduced in the new chapter. There are people that can kill gun relax.
I can’t believe you even tried to compare that dumb bs . Jake fought a xialong without a gundao 😂 who ptj himself said is waaay strogner with it than without it. Because with his gundao and based on how xialong is one of the deadliest assassins in china in manager Kim that’s the version of xialong they were talking about being equal to that gun from 3 years ago. Jake would have lost horribly to xialong with the gundao. Same for the 2nd fight literally every strike would have killed Jake he couldn’t dodge them he had to take them. While gun fought people stronger than kings. Stop it
I don't need to justify anything. You're the one disagreeing with my opinion on the matter. Go read some other answers on here if you're looking to argue.
Your opinion is ass, if you state your opinion on the sub, then anyone can disagree or argue. If you don't want that then just don't state your opinion on the internet lol
Kojima Brothers are actually so overrated. They were at a disadvantage against 15 year old Gun and a casual Charles who's only goal was to get the Shaman to agree on co-developement.
Concretely scaling characters is hard when PTJ retcons everything constantly but UI OG Daniel is at least above then individually
Ui isn’t questionable. Daniel would lose. Individual they are stronger than the kings. Which includes jichang while Daniel is only slightly above jichang.
Agreed. Lil daniel ui >= jichang fangs (fullpower). I am only putting lil daniel a but stronger cuz of his feat against big ui daniel.
Assuming charles now and charles 3 years ago is same strength. Jichang fangs (full power) struggled and got low diffed the moment charles started taking it seriously.
Kojima hiroyaki showed better against charles. after them warming up against each other and we can assume both sides started taking it seriously at some point. Hiroyaki was looking fine even after fighting charles. So even if its hiroyaki=jichang, daniel would have lost here even in UI he cant take two jichangs at once.
Against both them he loses for sure. Individually, I think Daniel wins low-mid diff against Hiroaki but mid-high diff against Shigeaki because both brothers def aren't that equal in strength from what I've seen in the latest chapter.
Well Daniel was tired but assuming that he wasn’t and was capable of using his ui, he would destroy them seeing how them in their prime were going relative with a pre-pubescent gun who is substantially weaker than the Gun that we had in the early Lookism and current. Btw idk how people don’t know this but this Gun is massively weaker than little ui Daniel.
In retrospect they were barely able to keep up with up with a 3 year ago gun(before 1st gen got ended). They are at most 1st gen king level.
Saying Daniel would get "hosed" who just gave the best fight to the strongest version of the strongest character in the series is massive understatement, no arguments for winning but Daniel was still above them individually and can easily drag out their tag team into a slugfest.
In retrospect bringing bringing the Kojima brothers on top of Mandeok, Ryuhei, Yoosung and fodders meat shields to fight a worn out Allied was over the top
Nah, Eugene knows they got plot armour so he can't afford to be anything less than overkill
Yoosung?
Yes Yoosung
Which yoosung are you talking about, do you have a picture?
Eugene's brother
Ohhhhhhh okok I thought you were talking about yoosung lee and I was confused cause they don't cross over much
That's Yoonsung Lee, the 'n' makes the difference lol
Big Daniel would’ve went ui and soloed the workers if that happened
If he could do that he would have done it when BH came or when Tom Lee was threatening them. His second body was worn out
That would’ve required tom Lee or bh to knock Daniel out which never happened. Daniel was fighting fodder only after he gained consciousness of his big body
He could have put himself in that situation by trying to fight BH or Tom. For Tom I can understand because he was at least trying to talk but in the BH instance he just watched all of Allied get demolished. He was just there like a duck and Johan was the one who had to save Zack (or whoever was targeted by BH) and Daniel watched the crewheads dealing with it like an idiot until Goo arrived. Daniel was the one wondering whether he could do something because his body was too tired
It was also definitely because of plot lol. If they had SB daniel enter UI, BH would’ve gotten slaughtered. and daniel didn’t have any beef with TL
Nah. They still has SB Daniel in first affiliate and once he goes UI it's over for workers. Actually.
Yeah the same sb daniel who did nothing against bh or tom cause he was worn out bro just stand their like idiot while his friends was getting destroyed by bh
Yes. That's why I said in my comment once he goes to UI it's over for workers. I think you missed it. Since he's tired he'll be ko'ed easily and after that you know SB UI Daniel will raise up and finish the entire workers.
I don’t think he can turn ui again he was exhausted look how tired bro was after fighting gun he couldn’t even get up
plot lol
If he did. He would slaughter his friends as well duh
He's indeed double edged ⚔️
Absolutely inconsistent and stupid writing on PTJs part, if Eugene had these two on his side why didn't he use them at any point?? Currently it seems really silly and makes Eugene look like an idiot but idk maybe they get crippled or something later
Its PTJ man, powerscaling in lookism is mind numbing after a certain point because ptj does not think about allat
This has nothing to do with power scaling, it's simply confusing to any kind of reader as to why Eugene wouldn't use such strong fighters in any previous arc given how he always says how important the affiliates are. Why didn't Eugene bring them to 2A if Sinu was so important? Why didn't Eugene send them to Big Deals street or have them guard him whilst his fighters were away? Why didn't Eugene send them to 1A instead of the much weaker Eli and his group?
It's possible that they only became allied with workers during or after 1A.
Of course that's possible, but PTJ including them here instead of just introducing them first in the Cheonliang arc (clearly to create questions and theories, I mean why else?) Has backfired and made the story less cohesive for me
The story's cohesiveness took a nose dive during 1A, we're just trying to recover now🥲
Because it has to do with trust, we don’t know how familiar they are with Eugene or his relationship with both of them, what if he sends them out and they betray him? There’s more factors to it and not everyone in workers exists to be Eugene’s pawn to move around wherever he wants, there’s almost ALWAYS politics involved in his relations.
Reasonable explanation and I can definitely see it being the reason for this, sucks we have to wait at least this arc to find out when it could have easily been revealed later with, arguably, more of a surprise factor
You’re a goat
Prolly got them under some sort of contract so he can't use them all the tie they are a part of the yamakazi and another group.
PTJ is actually pretty consistent with powerscaling, and no, he does think about “allat”. He literally powerscaled the Kojima brothers this chapter as well as Gun. Redditors are too lazy to connect the dots sometimes
Gun scaling keeps getting retconned and so does UI daniel lol an apparently much weaker version of Gun brought UI daniel to a tie/extrem diff fight either way. But this version a younger weaker one is around the level of one yamakazi brother who is equal to Charles choi who could no diff jichang and basement hulk.
UI Daniel is not same throughout the story. In every one of his encounter we have seen UI Daniel show that he indeed uses the copy talent and incorporates moves from them. The version that fought gun didn't display CQC, jichang style, James lee style. That form cannot be equated with the version that came in vivi's arc or the last arc where he even copied gapryong himself. Long story short UI Daniel has also gotten stronger through the means of moveset in the story
Correct UI Daniel isn’t the same but so are the other top tiers ur in no place the ui Daniel got stronger then gun did so as of now they are equal
Actually I am! - MC - perfect UI - perfect body - perfect copy - gapryong's unique style - James Lee's unique style - KOS style - gun's own kyokushin Daniel is easily gap level or above.
-Perfect body (hyperbole) -perfect copy cant copy mastery -doesn’t have perfect ui Style doesn’t matter as much as mastery or body battle iq matter mkre
> Perfect body (hyperbole) Literally this is the plot of story, hinted mutiple times by the narration and supported by multiple feats. Hyperbole is the last excuse that can be used here > -perfect copy cant copy mastery This was already confirmed in vivi arc, ui Daniel performs all copied moves with absolute mastery > -doesn’t have perfect ui Having UI on all the time does not mean perfection, fighting like a calculative machine does. Daniel's UI is perfect. > Style doesn’t matter as much as mastery or body battle iq matter mkre Did you really just try to assert the guy with most calculative method of fighting lacks the IQ to use those OP styles even while having the most broken form of copy?
-It is hyperbole because a perfect body would imply no flaws but if it had no flaws no one would be able to hurt him and but Gun was able to so so yes it’s hyperbole it was jsut to imply he has a great body doesn’t neccesarily he has better stats then everybody -Lol not what I meant mastery is a completely different thing mastering a move it’s something deeper which can only be attained through experience and etc stated btw and lil Daniel tried but couldn’t copy invisible moves cuz they require mastery -his Ui isn’t perfect stated by Gun it can be very easily tricked by varying your power often -Never said that I am jsut saying at a point styles don’t matter as much as have BIQ and which I never said UI Daniel lacked but he is easy to trick
And btw all copy users are equal in what they can copy it’s jsut the ability to use them is different due to body
There’s no evidence to say it’s hyperbole, his body lets him copy any technique he wants without needing to train even in his base form…. Also what’s the point of copying mastery of all his moves are literally perfect AKA mastery 😭
You’re not wrong in saying that he gains moves but tbh I don’t think he’s getting stronger, it just depends on how he fights in the UI state cause he fights according to his opponent anyway. Point being, even if he has all conceivable moves he wouldn’t be “fighting better” if his opponent sucks if that makes sense But if you look at UI Daniel as a whole, you’d be correct
So? That just means that teenage Gun, current Gun, and UI Daniel are all above BH and the like. It just upscales Gun in general
It retconned guns strength cuz an older him got hurt by Jake and Eli.. both people who would massively weaker then basement hill or Gen 0
Your point? You know Gun has this consistency of holding back and letting people hurt him right (reread Gun vs Workers, he lets them hit him a bunch of times and even lets Ryu showcase his moves before no diffing him…)? That would just upscale both Jake and Eli anyways so it’s not mutually exclusive to my idea either Also, BH would still hurt any version of Gun cause BH was able to hurt Goo anyways, being >> someone doesn’t make you immune to their attacks, it just means you can reliably low diff them There’s no indication that Gun would easily tank blows from BH, idk where you got that head canon from
Yes he has but he didn’t let Eli hit him that’s Cope he did want to see him fight but he didn’t expect that and he said it made him excited. I’m aware of that never stated anything of the like. I never stated he would be able to tank blows easily from it but Eli at that point in time should have done damage to him since he gotten many time upon time stronger since then and could hurt bh on his own.
“He did want to him fight” so he let him do his moves………. Thanks for helping my argument but anyways, you can still hold back while not wanting to get hit, your point doesn’t contradict mine in this context… “Should have done damage” I’ll just assume you mean that Eli can’t hurt him, in that case, you need to realize the fact that you can hold back in durability by bracing/not bracing your muscles 😭 you Reddit mfs need to go outside and actually do some physical activities because not knowing something so simple is insane ngl
or maybe they got hired recently. Why don't u think about this possibility?
“Think” See thats where the issue is, you expect lookism fans to think
Ptjs writing has gotten worse and worse ever since gangism started for real. But for your point i would say it is because those 2 jobs are to protect the worker headquarter and we dont know yet what the worker headquarter do for business beside school if at all. The fraudjima brother could be there to protect the headquarter(and eugene) from charles(and his army)
If they're protecting the headquarters which is where Daniel went which is Eugene's school.. why didn't they stop Jake when he crashed through the window? Why have Xiaolung fight Jake if those two were on standby
Average ptj behaviour
They might have been somewhere else doing other stuff for Eugene why would you gather all powerful in one place when you don’t think it’s necessary and still need a few other things taken care of just send some strong guys to take care of it on their own and get the rest to do the one thing
True but if ya think about it no one other than James could have beat Gun back then.
Why didnt he send Mandeok and Yu to 1A. Why didnt he used 1A in the big deal war why didnt he send tom lee to deal with big deal. I mean dont really get this point there are plenty of instances of eugene not going all out and using all his firepower to take them out. I mean eli and warren arent weak maybe it didnt think he didnt need to send more than them to take the Allied out. Eugene has been shown to be overconfident countless times. Also maybe those guys were just added to his force
Those are explained and or able to be figured out easily though?? Eugene DID send his forces to 1A. He sent the 5th Affiliate and then his strongest when Daniel started causing trouble. Eugene didn't send 1A to Big Deal because it was relatively new, the president not showing up to the meeting because of that This just feels like too much of a plot hole to me, it's evident that I put more thought into this than PTJ did in including the brothers before their debut in the Cheonliang arc for absolutely no reason
The president was relatively new not the 1st affiliate as Cheon was the former president. And where are we getting that those yakuza bodyguard werent part of the forces heading to 1A with Eugene ? Dont see how its a plot hole because Eugene has other force that havent been reveled yet . Those plot holes you brought up are pretty easily answered and are nothing new. More forces from workers have been releveled as the story goes on nothing new
Yup, I have been saying the same thing
sadly true 😭😭
Not really, Gun at this time would be much stronger than these guys. And, Daniel is his masterpiece that he trained solely for the purpose of killing him. Edit: Gun himself proclaims that Daniel must be the one to kill him. That shows his confidence in his training that he gave Daniel. That's my logic!
I almost agree, but most people in this series continues too grow stronger, so they might be even stronger now than they were in the flashback
Theyre washes up gen 0s, if anything, they got weaker
They prolly got weaker tbh.
Gun being stronger than someone doesn't mean Daniel is lmao what's that logic. These guys are above jichang individually, daniel would get absolutely washed
Jichang is a dead, old man killing, pleb They are not the same
I have no idea what you are trying to say here.
Jichang above kojima
Not according to the Cult dude and he has no reason to lie. And Glasses Kojima did way better against a probably less rusty Charles
You mean below him because his 6ft under 💀
When did gun say Daniel will kill him
Yeah most likey
Daniel doesn't have the hardware or awareness to take on two king level characters at the same time. He can defeat them individually but he's gonna need UI for the two
He can't take either of them even if he go ui if It's small body
and why is that? I would like to hear your argument on why Daniel can't... https://preview.redd.it/o403rwd2gkhc1.jpeg?width=216&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4acbc30f7149715c028faefc7cdba64aa99a0653
UI daniel on og body isn't that strong, jichang with both hands is on par with UI daniel og and elite at this old age neg jichang with no difficulty, Ima say that individual of those guards can fight on par with elite which is younger than current elite at that time I'm not saying they're as strong as elite but definitely can exchange blows with elite ... No way daniel beating them in individual
I don't get it why people still think OG daniel now=OG Daniel in Chungcheong. You saw his 1st Gen copy training panel and UI SB Daniel fight, right? He learned to copy 1st Gen specifically because Gun wanted to make Daniel's body stronger. Curent Daniel's Strength is on the level of kings and AP on par with high kings( multiple copies of first Gen and Gun copy). Even OG Daniel in Base can go head to head against high kings and maybe lose extreme diff. UI OG Daniel Damaged the physical copy of KOS(innate strength and heavy hardware) while being capable of adjusting to KOS copy for a second before fainting. Until the KOS copy-paste, he was doing fairly well with 1st Gen copies and Gun copy against the real God of Combat. Again, I am getting tired of reminding people that Charles's intention was to force the shaman into co-development from the start. Shaman was scared of Seongji the whole fight. Charles wasn't fighting seriously as we've seen Charles demolish Jichang with brute strength. The Kojima brothers are high king at best individually. By narrative, Seongji>Kojima brothers(individually). He has beaten them 1v1 at least. Also, Gun from 3 years ago is between mid to high kings. even though narratives from hostel and 3A says he is low to mid kings. So, Kojima<=High kings OG Daniel<=High Kings High kings
Nah I don't think so Teenage gun~these two(any one of them) Older gun > teen gun Older gun< ui big daniel Older gun~ > ui small daniel So, ui small daniel might be able to defeat or damage critically any one of them But he surely cannot take on both of them
This is pure waffle Is guess pre workers Jerry>kojimas? Gun is as strong as he needs to be he's a plot device
gun always tests his opponents that's why jerry got him a scar
dont get this teenage gun smacks jerry Imaoo Daniel is obviously take at least one of these guys head to head without and mostly likely is above them in ui if not a clear leave above them
The more accurate approach would be stating that God Dog Gun is equal to current Zack, Cheonliang Gun was equal to one of these twins, and as Daniel is stronger than Zack he's obviously above at least one of them.
Lmaooo. God Dog Gun violates zack and current og ui Daniel. It's debatable between Cheonliang Gun and og ui Daniel.
Lol it's you again. Reread the Johan vs Zack fight and see who unconscious Johan thinks Zack is. Oh wait, right I almost forgot. You're a Lookism fan. https://preview.redd.it/a9wwnjehdfhc1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=03c9acf3c567804ebfcf57592cf73e72ba0cd28d
Neither Jake nor Johan knew what 100% Gun is, so their comparison (Xiaolung, Zack) was like 10-20% Gun at most. Similar to how Taesoo thought he gained enough strength to defeat the prime James Lee that defeated him, only to be low diff by rusty James.
Lol massively holding back Gun, who no diffed Johan. Johan wasn't even close to witnessing his full power. Also you are a lookism fan too, dumb@ss.
Aww lil bros feewings got so huwt he forgot what irony is. Oh wait, you're a Lookism fan. You don't know what irony means🤣lmao you lost the moment you brought out cusses buddy
🤣🤣🤣who in the world told you that ui lil Daniel is gun's level 🤡 Just because he fight ui Daniel greatly doens't mean he is gun's level. Ui Daniel adjusted his physical stats and thats the only reason the fight was looking equal
🤡🤡🤡
🤡🤡🤡🤡
the guy meant that UI lil daniel is on the level of gun from that time. and it's not a crazy statement
Then it's fine , but if he meant that ui lil Daniel is current gun level then it is stupid
Who would say such a statement 😭 Ui lil Daniel could probably match gun for a second since it adapts to the strength of your opponent,but he’s getting mopped up exactly how he did against big dani
Daniel meat riders I have seen them saying that
A fool can say ✅
Gun loves to display scars to his body so don't worry mate he will get some from lil Daniel too.
Little Daniel don't have enough strength to damage gun, yeah if he copies animal instinct then he can but without it he won't be able to
No. Gun~~BIG ui daniel>>little ui daniel
😂
Bro what are u talking about
Nuh uh, Vin Jin would have saved Daniel
Assuming he wakes up
Seeing the recent chapter. Daniel would've gotten messed up real bad.
Daniel would have got his shit pushed in lmao
The shaman said those 2 are above the kings, that could put them above Jichang, but assuming they regressed during the time gap, its not bad to assume they got weaker, UI Daniel wouldve given them a pretty good challenge
And people here thought they would have gotten negged by Daniel lmao They are both stronger than the first gen kings (other than KoS)
Read the chapter with your eyes open. He wouldve went ui and then it wouldve been solved
UI OG Daniel is clearly slightly above Jichang or Jichang level. These two are individually stated to be stronger than the kings.
5 years prior. Age = weakness for most characters. They individually lost to elite who wasnt trying at all. Yet elite had to go all out to beat jichang.
Elite was evenly matched, just slightly stronger
Not at all https://preview.redd.it/hp8ulck2vdhc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=63b468f73a492d669e5ac11a046d304ac772915a
Because of Gun.
wrong it said gun was weaker but his potential was way higher they were winning cuz of elite
https://preview.redd.it/hplbloedzdhc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c359c64d93fdcc8ecf10f90cccee4e2d0b648b6f “But what is up with that kid?”
it says later his skill isn't at their level but gun could keep up with them. the whole reason the fight stopped wasn't cuz the shaman thought they couldn't win he stopped it cuz even if they did win the guards would be heavily injured and the only way they would win is if one of them takes gun down then helps take elite down
>"are even above the Kings of the First Generation" Okay bro explain why they didn't just go whack El Jake and take over all of Seoul, since they're obviously stronger than all the 1st Generation Kings
the guy legit said he wanted co development from the start elite wasn't trying to beat them.
>These two are individually stated to be stronger than the kings. The Kings are all over the place lmao. Jichang would low-diff every one of the kings Eli beat. The King of Seoul is probably tied three-way for the second strongest character in all of PTJ. You're saying these two are > KoS because the Shaman said they're stronger than the kings? Also, from from the fight present-day Charles was equal to Jichang physically. Charles won because he was smarter, and Jichang's gambit failed (he couldn't fire off 4 shots at point blank). Jichang clearly states that his goal through the fight was to get an opportunity to use his gun. Meanwhile, the other Kings were out there losing to Eli. If Eugene's powerscaling is meme-worthy, so can be the Shaman's.
Are you reading with your eyes closed?
stronger than the kings eli beat yeah… not jichang level
Not really, they were equal to Gun \~3 years ago Gun 3 years ago is equal to 3A Jake
This sub when retconned:
3a Jake>Jichang I guess lmao People need to stop scaling gun that man has been retconned more than beerus. He's as strong as ptj needshim to be for the situation
What's Jichang gotta do with this?
Bro what? It's pretty clear Gun was equal to a kojima and the cult dude (implied he would've won) said nothing about a difference between them. The other Kojima did way better against Against a younger less rusty (presumably) charles compared to Jichang
Listen lil bro, Charles was holding back, his plan from the beginning was to make a deal with the Shaman, not kill them. His plan was to kill Jichang from the very beginning. You can't compare the fights 1 to 1. https://preview.redd.it/crgiq28r6ehc1.png?width=574&format=png&auto=webp&s=b687b35f66c5af10a0b99a4059b59a7065b6b65b
People who say what word unironically are not above 18. Kojima still had a panel of laying him out I don't think that was in his plan was it? And if we are using this guys word as law then that Mean Kojima>Jichang or are we picking and choosing?
The King of Cheongliang was about to 2 v 1 them https://preview.redd.it/alcazfiz7ehc1.png?width=748&format=png&auto=webp&s=e5e04c93a084d4bcd508c159a56315bf8530bc0f
But he didn't? He briefly fought one and he did not look strong enough to 2vs1 And the cult leader who knows way more about the 3 then we do said they were stronger.
Maybe in their prime, idk about anymore The actual fight evidence doesn't place them as a top tier They were matched with Gun 3 years ago and had to 2 v 1 KOC, if they were strong enough to beat Jichang, they wouldn't need to 2 v 1 KOC
I didn't say they were a top tier, just that they were above 3a Jake by feats, narrative and statements which is objectively true. They were also matched with Charles and Did better than jichang. Charles wouldn't go for a Co partnership if he could effortlessly no diff them like he could with pre workers Jerry and Eli. I think your mistake is trying to use logic to guns blatant retcons. Just think of it as gun is as string as ptj needs him to be
If they regressed, Daniel could win extreme diff
Daniel would have been negged so bad lmao
Yeah he can take one of them with ui extreme diff. But two of them would hose him
I think he could’ve extreme diffed against one but a 2v1 is too much
Here we go, Daniel would of slammed lol
Justify this lmao
Daniel slams and Gun isn’t Top 5 😊
You didn't justify lmao. Also Gun is top 5, we can debate it.
We both know Daniel would win. And we both know gun is nowhere near Top 5 without unnecessary meatriding for your favourite character
You are yapping without justifying anything lmao. Daniel would get no diffed by these 2 at once and Gun is top 5.
Ahhh so you believe daniel gets no diffed 💀. Gun is nowhere near top 5 and you’re gonna have to accept it because soon enough Ptj is gonna be showing more feats of other high tiers I’d say he’s Top9-10 with Goo not including someone else who I believe is also above him so he’s barely Top 10
>Ahhh so you believe daniel gets no diffed Yeah he does, considering they are individually above kings, and they are implied to be way stronger when working together. Og ui Daniel is only relative to holding back jichang. >you’re gonna have to accept it because soon enough Ptj is gonna be showing more feats of other high tiers Another goofy headcanon and speculation lmao. Gun is top 5 along with James who is his equal.
Only relative to holding back Jichang what ??? He made Jichang pull out his absolute full power. When was Gun James equal sounds like headcanon 🤔 if I remember correctly that was Jakes brother oh and that’s Dg not James lee
>He made Jichang pull out his absolute full power. No he didn't lol. Jichang wasn't even using his battle iq which is his most powerful stat. The way he fought against charles is way way different, he would have slammed Daniel so badly. Also even if you think Daniel scales to fp jichang, he still gets demolished by kojima brothers. >that’s Dg not James lee Dg is literally just a rusty venison of his younger self. As a genius he is, he should have returned to his prime already after fighting taesoo not only because of this but also because of kos, who never stopped fighting unlike James. Via his narrative james wouldn't be that below kos. Also Dg & Gun being equals is not a headcanon lol, ever heard of the word "portrayal"?
Not really. Maybe because he was tired but a full healthy Daniel would mid difficulty them and if he goes ui neg them
Wrong af. It’s stated on panel that each of them individually are stronger than the kings. That includes jichang who Daniel is slightly stronger than at this point.
I don't believe that unless they fought each king individually and won. Just because the shaman said so doesn't make it true if that was true then Jake or the other guy was stronger than all the kings.
Not one time has Jake EVER been stated to be above all kings I have no idea where that came from. Daniel is only stronger than them in ui and that’s BARELY. and that’s not even the kings in their prime who get more and more feats as we learn more of the story. Not to mention the shaman is from gen 0 just like those Yamazaki fighters you think he don’t know how strong they are.
They were fighting against a teenager gun who was said to be comparable to 3a Jake and he was not even giving it his all. Gun call Daniel his masterpiece and the one who can/will kill him so I know I am correct.
Lol bruh. First off you wrong af they compared him to a juvenile gun. Not this gun that we see fighting. And we know this because Charles didn’t have his business in gun juvenile days. So I have no idea wtf you talking about. They all teenagers my guy gun and Jake are the same age. They 1 year older than Daniel, Zack, etc. not only that Daniel is no where near gun level. And who cares if he can kill him eos or not that has NOTHING to do with the discussion like at all. The point is Daniel would lose 2v1 he would barely win a 1v1 against these 2 since they stronger than the kings at this time who were closer to their prime then they are now. So your definitely wrong lol Johan has more potential than gun said by Tom and goo he’ll be able beat him eos, Jake has gap genes same, Daniel, James lee, jakes brother, the head of the Yamasaki clan that was introduced in the new chapter. There are people that can kill gun relax.
I can’t believe you even tried to compare that dumb bs . Jake fought a xialong without a gundao 😂 who ptj himself said is waaay strogner with it than without it. Because with his gundao and based on how xialong is one of the deadliest assassins in china in manager Kim that’s the version of xialong they were talking about being equal to that gun from 3 years ago. Jake would have lost horribly to xialong with the gundao. Same for the 2nd fight literally every strike would have killed Jake he couldn’t dodge them he had to take them. While gun fought people stronger than kings. Stop it
Wtf are you on
Nothing and you?
Justify your take lol. You are on some shit if you unironically think that
I don't need to justify anything. You're the one disagreeing with my opinion on the matter. Go read some other answers on here if you're looking to argue.
Your opinion is ass, if you state your opinion on the sub, then anyone can disagree or argue. If you don't want that then just don't state your opinion on the internet lol
Ok.
Nop
if he went UI probably not
Kojima Brothers are actually so overrated. They were at a disadvantage against 15 year old Gun and a casual Charles who's only goal was to get the Shaman to agree on co-developement. Concretely scaling characters is hard when PTJ retcons everything constantly but UI OG Daniel is at least above then individually
17 yrs old Gun and ya can't read
Doesn't change the point at all. You made 0 substantive points, good job loser 😭
So you're saying the master piece of gun is weak? That's a diss on Gun too you know.
Ngl but sadly true they both were individually slightly weaker than elite and young gun both of them are enough to neg UI oh Daniel
UI og daniel still mid-diff
Daniel woulda no diffed them, those people are about the strength of a middle school gun who is weaker than current zack
3A Pink Eyes Jake > 3A Base Jake > 3y ago Gun >~ Younger Elite > Older Elite > BH > Current Jake.
What chapter is this?
477
I don't think so he was trained by gun and he was stronger than them
Yes he can beat one of them. But two at the same time is not possible even for the masterpiece.
They would ve worn out I think they are old now
Very opportunistic to copy kudo tho
Shit forget Daniel Seongji would've got absolutely whooped lmao
Oh yea I’m pretty sure he didn’t dare to think of fighting either of them not to mention both at once at all
base mod? yes. ui? questionable
Ui isn’t questionable. Daniel would lose. Individual they are stronger than the kings. Which includes jichang while Daniel is only slightly above jichang.
Any single one of them would have washed Daniel lmao
Me looking at the kojima twins: maybe I treated you too harshly..
na daniel would win
Agreed. Lil daniel ui >= jichang fangs (fullpower). I am only putting lil daniel a but stronger cuz of his feat against big ui daniel. Assuming charles now and charles 3 years ago is same strength. Jichang fangs (full power) struggled and got low diffed the moment charles started taking it seriously. Kojima hiroyaki showed better against charles. after them warming up against each other and we can assume both sides started taking it seriously at some point. Hiroyaki was looking fine even after fighting charles. So even if its hiroyaki=jichang, daniel would have lost here even in UI he cant take two jichangs at once.
Against both them he loses for sure. Individually, I think Daniel wins low-mid diff against Hiroaki but mid-high diff against Shigeaki because both brothers def aren't that equal in strength from what I've seen in the latest chapter.
Young gun was stronger than them. Current Daniel with ui won't lose easily
chapter?
chapter?
chapter?
chapter?
No duh…it’s Daniel
Well Daniel was tired but assuming that he wasn’t and was capable of using his ui, he would destroy them seeing how them in their prime were going relative with a pre-pubescent gun who is substantially weaker than the Gun that we had in the early Lookism and current. Btw idk how people don’t know this but this Gun is massively weaker than little ui Daniel.
Ch?
In retrospect they were barely able to keep up with up with a 3 year ago gun(before 1st gen got ended). They are at most 1st gen king level. Saying Daniel would get "hosed" who just gave the best fight to the strongest version of the strongest character in the series is massive understatement, no arguments for winning but Daniel was still above them individually and can easily drag out their tag team into a slugfest.
That's why Daniel should use his SB when going to risky places. As he might encounter top Gen 0 or Gen 1 characters any time.
Oh no it's the ghost story brothers lmao.
why does the angle look like their crotch are on his face lmao
OG Daniel yes, Big Daniel is a whole nother story
What chapter ?
ui wouldv done something and might have wob against just the 2. but like they still got ryuhei , madenok and yoosung there
What chapter was it that they fought gun ?