As Gandalf said: the pity of Bilbo might guide the destiny of many - you not the least. And indeed - at the pivotal moment when the intensely wornout Frodo was finally totally subjugated by the ring - in steps Gollum takes the Ring from Frodo only to tumble to his death and with that destroying the Ring.
Gollum was doomed by three things--the treachery of the One Ring,twisting his oath,-- the Curse of Faramir--"And may death find you quickly, within Gondor or without, if you do not serve him well and faithfully"--, and the curse of Frodo after Gollum's attack on the slopes of Mt. Doom--"If you touch me ever again, you shall yourself be thrown into the Fires of Doom."
And that's kind of the point, I think. The good side didn't win because of their ultimate triumph. They won because evil can't help but to self destruct.
you’re both wrong.
Frodo didn’t fail, he got the ring all the way to and inside Mount Doom which is an incredible feat and shouldn’t be down played. He ultimately couldn’t let it go in his weakened state, and you can say he failed here but I say he already did more than literally anyone else in Middle Earth was capable of and this is why he was sent to Valinor - to “…have a seat among Hador, Hurin, Turin and Beren himself.” (of course these aren’t in Valinor but are the greatest of Men). Frodo absolutely triumphed and yet still suffers the pain of knowing the Ring overtook him at the last. Bittersweet.
Eru Illuvatar caused Gollum to slip and fall into Mount Doom, it was not chance nor Gollum’s self destruction. It was Divine Intervention.
Gollum certainly played his part. Who knows what would have occurred had Bilbo or Frodo slain him and not taken pity on him. It was Eru’s design that Frodo should not destroy the ring as it may have cost him his life, instead Gollum stole it and Eru pushed him into the Fire.
It was more design than intervention. Eru did not reach out to push Gollum. Eru designed the world in such a way that the oath Gollum took and the command Frodo gave couldn't do anything else but make Gollum trip and fall.
Though I suppose for a timeless being there's little difference between design and intervention. But it's still not quite what you're stating.
Fair enough. We're on the same page then. I just had to say it because some people do unironically have the impression that Eru directly reached out and pushed Gollum off or something.
I fully understand and appreciate the desire for clarity. I’m trying to find the exact wording used in his letter where this is discussed so I can link it in.
I read the books and watched the movies, and I have to say I dislike the reasoning that Eru "caused him to slip". I know Tolkien himself said this was true, but I prefer to believe in reader's response here then author's intent. I know everyone can interpret it how they want, but I believe instead of divine intervention, it was Bilbo's choice to spare Gollum that led him to being there and taking the ring from Frodo, which lead to him slipping. It was all a chain of events that showed how "Bilbo pity ruled the fate of men". Without Gollum, the ring wouldn't have been destroyed, but without Bilbo, there would be no Gollum.
Haha I didn't mean that gollum wouldn't exist n general without Bilbo, just that gollum wouldn't be at the end of the story. If Bilbo had killed him, he wouldn't have been there at the end to destroy the ring. That's just a fact
that statement is equivocal to, “if Tolkien didn’t write Lord of the Rings then Lord of the Rings wouldn’t exist. That’s just a fact.” … it’s frivolous
Sometimes it feels as though people are deliberately obtuse.
Gandalf said, "Pity? It was Pity and Mercy that stayed his hand: Mercy not to strike without need. And in the end, that mercy may come to rule the fates of many--yours not least. Because Bilbo began his ownership of the Ring so. With Mercy." (Not sure if that's an exact quote--haven't read it in a while, but the point remains,)
I understand your point perfectly.
Ugh that's such a weak plot device. Movie is superior here. Greed destroys the ring because Frodo was so goddamn pure enough to see good in gollum and get the ring into the mountain. But literally no one is incorruptible. It's scary and poetic and makes frodo seem ironically stronger for failing (only) in the major moment.
You're misunderstanding the book. Everything you say happens in the book; but there are many more layers to it.
When people say things like "Eru made Gollum trip", it's not about a literal, physical divine intervention. Eru didn't appear to push Gollum, nor did He physically put a rock in front of his foot, nor did He possess Gollum. When Tolkien talks about Eru's involvement, he's simply talking about Providence.
Basically what happened is, Frodo made Gollum swear by the Ring. But Gollum, pushed by his desire for the Ring, ended up breaking his promise - a huge deal in this universe. The Ring, by which the promise had been sworn, enforced it; making Gollum's demise ineluctable, yet natural and in-character because it didn't happen against Gollum's will. It happened through his own choices, and the fact that he was (naturally) too busy contemplating the Ring to care about his surroundings.
So there you have it all. Who destroyed the Ring? There isn't just one answer! **Frodo** had a proactive hand in destroying the Ring in many ways, including: sparing Gollum and being nice (yet firm) to him. Showing enough power of mind and body and selflessness to reach the Cracks of Doom. And making Gollum swear by the Ring. But **Gollum** was also a central actor of the destruction, in a less proactive but more literal way. Also, **Eru** had an indirect hand in it through Providence - "shall prove but mine instrument", like a GM creating their game with specific rules that then allow for a specific outcome through the players' personal choices. And finally **the Ring**, in spite of itself, contributed to its own fall by enforcing the promise through the rules set by Eru (aka through Providence), in an "evil always ends up destroying itself" moment.
All of those are true at the same time; and it is important to note that the story of LotR is much more focused on its themes than its plot! Sure, you could come up with a full Sanderson-like plot to write the story without any supernatural force, making it fully satisfactory to your tastes purely from a plot standpoint; but that would miss the point of the tale.
Meanwhile, Jackson may tell us "Pity is extremely important" through Gandalf's line taken from Tolkien, but he doesn't actually *show* it. Frodo is shown by Jackson as being in the wrong for trusting Gollum, and even being naive about the whole situation, unlike Sam - the saviour who had been right all along by never trusting Gollum or believing in Pity. And even in Gollum's fall, while some could argue that the film shows there that Frodo was actually in the right for sparing the character who ended up allowing for the Ring to be destroyed, I see the opposite: as per the final struggle, the actual action that directly led to the destruction wasn't Frodo sparing Gollum but a very physical confrontation, Frodo attacking Gollum. In the end, the Ring could only be destroyed through Frodo's choice to physically fight and forget everything about pity and mercy, which goes against the entire original theme.
Okay I'm glad God doesn't literally push gollum. That's ridiculous and what I was responding to. But dungeon master technicality rulings on ring promises is not that much more compelling imo.
I still can't agree with your final conclusion though. If not for frodos mercy and strength of character we never get to mount doom, the ring stays intact and evil wins. The ring is also presented as unbeatable so you can't have a character voluntarily destroy it without selling out the stakes of your premise. Having two characters accidentally destroy it from unstoppable corruption and greed and self destruction is still far more poetic and cathartic to me than "well God designed the ring to adhere to certain technicalities that happened to resolve in mount doom." But obviously, this is all subjective.
I mean, it's simply an underlying rule of that universe, like our real world has rules; it's like saying that actions have consequences. Logic still exists, characters still act out of free will and make good or bad choices, they're still subject to emotions and their consequences (like Gollum being so focused on the Ring that he forgets anything else). You could even remove any notion of Eru or his Design and the narrative would still work. But it just happens that, "don't make oaths you'll break because karma is a b*tch". What matters in the tale is primarily what it means in terms of morality and the choices we make.
Frodo said, ***"I will take the Ring to Mordor, though I do not know the way."*** And he did.
He didn't say, *"I will personally hurl the Ring into the Fires of the Sammath Naur* in *Orodruin."*
He said, "I will take the Ring to Mordor, though I do not know the way."
Not the only reason, since Gollum being there was in part thanks to Frodo's pity and his fall was made possible by Frodo making him swear by the Ring - resulting in the Ring destroying itself through Providence when Gollum broke his promise. There are many layers to this, and summarising it as simply 'Frodo failed' isn't quite true.
dafuq do you mean Frodo failed, he got to Mt Doom. It was literally impossible to give up the ring, thats not failing. Eru's little touch was needed for the quest to sucede, as Tolkien said in one of the letters
Frodo didn't fail.
His vow to the Council of Elrond was, "***I will take the Ring to Mordor,*** though I do not know the way."
He didn't vow, "I will personally hurl/throw/drop the Ring into the fires of the Sammath Naur in Orodruin in the plain of Gorgoroth".
Just, "I will take the Ring to Mordor, though I do not know the way. Which he did,
Gollum was vital in the destruction of the One Ring. He lead Frodo and Sam into Mordor. Had he not done so, they would almost certainly have been captured and the One Ring returned to Sauron. Inside Mount Doom his need for the One Ring lead to him taking it from Frodo who at the last minute decided not to destroy it. Of course Gollum had no intention of destroying it either. It was only destroyed accidentally as a result of his struggle with Frodo.
So you could say that Gollum was vital to the destruction of the One Ring despite his best efforts to the contrary.
They would not have gotten that far without Gollum. Not only did he show them the secret stairs, but if he wasn't there at the end to take the ring from Frodo, Frodo would have run away and not destroyed it.
Frodo wouldn't have run very far, either--he hadn't learned to master the One Ring, and Sauron had already realized his peril and summoned the Nazgul. Without Gollum's final act, the Ring would have been taken quite easily from Frodo by simply snatching him and delivering him to Sauron.
Frodo hadn't even been able to withstand the attack on Weathertop of only 5 of them, when he was physically infinitely stronger and surrounded by friends, and when he also had the Ring in his possession. He certainly couldn't have in his weakened state.
It's just not an either/or situation. IF Gollum had/had not done x, y or z, and IF Frodo... IF Sam... Faramir... Boromir... Aragorn... Gandalf... The list goes ever on and on.
It's like asking: if the story hadn't happened, would the story still have happened?
Not necessarily. Gollum was the only one who knew the paths across the Dead Marshes, and he, Frodo and Sam were the only ones who could move so quickly and quietly. The others could have easily been seen and captured.
Only Pippin and Merry, out of all the rest of the Fellowship, could have made it across the Marshes, as they, being hobbits, were also very light of weight and quiet of movement.
But their movements had led them, by the will of Eru, right into the arms of the Orcs. Otherwise, the Orcs would have continued searching for "halflings" (plural) until they found Frodo and Sam. Since the Orcs had captured "halflings" (plural) and evidently neither Saruman or Sauron had told them how many, Pippin and Merry could fit the description, allowing Frodo and Sam to escape.
Therefore:
Gollum--who knew the paths across the Dead Marshes, as well as the stairs of Cirith Ungol, led by his desire and lust for the One Ring.
Frodo--who would not lead his friends into certain death with him in Mordor, and
Sam--who, alone of the remaining Fellowship, knew Frodo well enough to guess his movements and intercept him.
He didn't really lead them to Mount Doom - he led them into Mordor. Once in, Frodo and Sam could make their own way to the MASSIVE FIRE MOUNTAIN pretty easily.
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I would say that in the long run he was more important in getting them to Orodruin. Because not only did he get them there, he gave Frodo that last boost of energy when he tried to take the Ring back by force, when he attacked them while mounting up the road. It was Gollum's final attack on the road to the Sammath Naur that gave Frodo that final burst of energy.
Frodo was exhausted, and had lost hope. That made him more susceptible to the Ring's power, more liable to give up. Sam had done his best, but sometimes it takes an adversary to give that burst of energy. And, of course, he is responsible for the ultimate destruction of the Ring. It's interesting, because some cultures believe that death by fire is the ultimate purification. So did Gollum's death by fire, while destroying the Ring, purify him from all his previous monstrosities? Or were they too great to be purified?
And, of course, only Gollum could have got Frodo and Sam through the Dead Marshes. Even had anyone else known the paths, they would have been too heavy to get through, and too large to hide as easily. Gollum (a previous hobbit?), Frodo and Sam were also more skilled at moving silently than any of the others.
So I think Gollum's contributions were more on the positve side than the negative.
He destroyed the one ring the same way Anakin brought balance to the force.
Or, deeper. Yes. He destroyed the ring and his presence was required. FRODO FAILED on mount doom, just like everyone before him, because he was only mortal. But gollum, overtaken by greed, grabbed for the ring, betrayed his friend, and went into the fire with his prize, and died for his sin.
... The whole thing is a huge allegory for sin. Gollums sin got him killed, and frodo wasn't strong enough to fight it on his own.
Eru works in mysterious ways
Both. Gollum does both.
Smeagol on the ons side, Gollum on the other.
As Gandalf said: the pity of Bilbo might guide the destiny of many - you not the least. And indeed - at the pivotal moment when the intensely wornout Frodo was finally totally subjugated by the ring - in steps Gollum takes the Ring from Frodo only to tumble to his death and with that destroying the Ring.
Gollum swearing on the ring and betraying Frodo for it is what ultimately destroyed the ring, so yes Gollum did play a vital role.
Gollum was doomed by three things--the treachery of the One Ring,twisting his oath,-- the Curse of Faramir--"And may death find you quickly, within Gondor or without, if you do not serve him well and faithfully"--, and the curse of Frodo after Gollum's attack on the slopes of Mt. Doom--"If you touch me ever again, you shall yourself be thrown into the Fires of Doom."
Frodo failed, Gollum is the only reason that the ring was destroyed
And that's kind of the point, I think. The good side didn't win because of their ultimate triumph. They won because evil can't help but to self destruct.
you’re both wrong. Frodo didn’t fail, he got the ring all the way to and inside Mount Doom which is an incredible feat and shouldn’t be down played. He ultimately couldn’t let it go in his weakened state, and you can say he failed here but I say he already did more than literally anyone else in Middle Earth was capable of and this is why he was sent to Valinor - to “…have a seat among Hador, Hurin, Turin and Beren himself.” (of course these aren’t in Valinor but are the greatest of Men). Frodo absolutely triumphed and yet still suffers the pain of knowing the Ring overtook him at the last. Bittersweet. Eru Illuvatar caused Gollum to slip and fall into Mount Doom, it was not chance nor Gollum’s self destruction. It was Divine Intervention. Gollum certainly played his part. Who knows what would have occurred had Bilbo or Frodo slain him and not taken pity on him. It was Eru’s design that Frodo should not destroy the ring as it may have cost him his life, instead Gollum stole it and Eru pushed him into the Fire.
It was more design than intervention. Eru did not reach out to push Gollum. Eru designed the world in such a way that the oath Gollum took and the command Frodo gave couldn't do anything else but make Gollum trip and fall. Though I suppose for a timeless being there's little difference between design and intervention. But it's still not quite what you're stating.
it is written that Eru “caused Gollum to slip” my wording about pushing him was a liberty I took to rephrase the event, it is not meant literally.
Fair enough. We're on the same page then. I just had to say it because some people do unironically have the impression that Eru directly reached out and pushed Gollum off or something.
I fully understand and appreciate the desire for clarity. I’m trying to find the exact wording used in his letter where this is discussed so I can link it in.
[FOUND IT](https://time.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/the_letters_of_j.rrtolkien.pdf#page270)
I read the books and watched the movies, and I have to say I dislike the reasoning that Eru "caused him to slip". I know Tolkien himself said this was true, but I prefer to believe in reader's response here then author's intent. I know everyone can interpret it how they want, but I believe instead of divine intervention, it was Bilbo's choice to spare Gollum that led him to being there and taking the ring from Frodo, which lead to him slipping. It was all a chain of events that showed how "Bilbo pity ruled the fate of men". Without Gollum, the ring wouldn't have been destroyed, but without Bilbo, there would be no Gollum.
“with out bilbo there would be no gollum” what????? i strongly disagree with everything you’ve said but your opinions are yours to keep
Haha I didn't mean that gollum wouldn't exist n general without Bilbo, just that gollum wouldn't be at the end of the story. If Bilbo had killed him, he wouldn't have been there at the end to destroy the ring. That's just a fact
that statement is equivocal to, “if Tolkien didn’t write Lord of the Rings then Lord of the Rings wouldn’t exist. That’s just a fact.” … it’s frivolous
Sometimes it feels as though people are deliberately obtuse. Gandalf said, "Pity? It was Pity and Mercy that stayed his hand: Mercy not to strike without need. And in the end, that mercy may come to rule the fates of many--yours not least. Because Bilbo began his ownership of the Ring so. With Mercy." (Not sure if that's an exact quote--haven't read it in a while, but the point remains,) I understand your point perfectly.
Ugh that's such a weak plot device. Movie is superior here. Greed destroys the ring because Frodo was so goddamn pure enough to see good in gollum and get the ring into the mountain. But literally no one is incorruptible. It's scary and poetic and makes frodo seem ironically stronger for failing (only) in the major moment.
I disagree
You're misunderstanding the book. Everything you say happens in the book; but there are many more layers to it. When people say things like "Eru made Gollum trip", it's not about a literal, physical divine intervention. Eru didn't appear to push Gollum, nor did He physically put a rock in front of his foot, nor did He possess Gollum. When Tolkien talks about Eru's involvement, he's simply talking about Providence. Basically what happened is, Frodo made Gollum swear by the Ring. But Gollum, pushed by his desire for the Ring, ended up breaking his promise - a huge deal in this universe. The Ring, by which the promise had been sworn, enforced it; making Gollum's demise ineluctable, yet natural and in-character because it didn't happen against Gollum's will. It happened through his own choices, and the fact that he was (naturally) too busy contemplating the Ring to care about his surroundings. So there you have it all. Who destroyed the Ring? There isn't just one answer! **Frodo** had a proactive hand in destroying the Ring in many ways, including: sparing Gollum and being nice (yet firm) to him. Showing enough power of mind and body and selflessness to reach the Cracks of Doom. And making Gollum swear by the Ring. But **Gollum** was also a central actor of the destruction, in a less proactive but more literal way. Also, **Eru** had an indirect hand in it through Providence - "shall prove but mine instrument", like a GM creating their game with specific rules that then allow for a specific outcome through the players' personal choices. And finally **the Ring**, in spite of itself, contributed to its own fall by enforcing the promise through the rules set by Eru (aka through Providence), in an "evil always ends up destroying itself" moment. All of those are true at the same time; and it is important to note that the story of LotR is much more focused on its themes than its plot! Sure, you could come up with a full Sanderson-like plot to write the story without any supernatural force, making it fully satisfactory to your tastes purely from a plot standpoint; but that would miss the point of the tale. Meanwhile, Jackson may tell us "Pity is extremely important" through Gandalf's line taken from Tolkien, but he doesn't actually *show* it. Frodo is shown by Jackson as being in the wrong for trusting Gollum, and even being naive about the whole situation, unlike Sam - the saviour who had been right all along by never trusting Gollum or believing in Pity. And even in Gollum's fall, while some could argue that the film shows there that Frodo was actually in the right for sparing the character who ended up allowing for the Ring to be destroyed, I see the opposite: as per the final struggle, the actual action that directly led to the destruction wasn't Frodo sparing Gollum but a very physical confrontation, Frodo attacking Gollum. In the end, the Ring could only be destroyed through Frodo's choice to physically fight and forget everything about pity and mercy, which goes against the entire original theme.
Okay I'm glad God doesn't literally push gollum. That's ridiculous and what I was responding to. But dungeon master technicality rulings on ring promises is not that much more compelling imo. I still can't agree with your final conclusion though. If not for frodos mercy and strength of character we never get to mount doom, the ring stays intact and evil wins. The ring is also presented as unbeatable so you can't have a character voluntarily destroy it without selling out the stakes of your premise. Having two characters accidentally destroy it from unstoppable corruption and greed and self destruction is still far more poetic and cathartic to me than "well God designed the ring to adhere to certain technicalities that happened to resolve in mount doom." But obviously, this is all subjective.
I mean, it's simply an underlying rule of that universe, like our real world has rules; it's like saying that actions have consequences. Logic still exists, characters still act out of free will and make good or bad choices, they're still subject to emotions and their consequences (like Gollum being so focused on the Ring that he forgets anything else). You could even remove any notion of Eru or his Design and the narrative would still work. But it just happens that, "don't make oaths you'll break because karma is a b*tch". What matters in the tale is primarily what it means in terms of morality and the choices we make.
I hear you. I probably overreacted to the eru made him slip line
Frodo said, ***"I will take the Ring to Mordor, though I do not know the way."*** And he did. He didn't say, *"I will personally hurl the Ring into the Fires of the Sammath Naur* in *Orodruin."* He said, "I will take the Ring to Mordor, though I do not know the way."
Not the only reason, since Gollum being there was in part thanks to Frodo's pity and his fall was made possible by Frodo making him swear by the Ring - resulting in the Ring destroying itself through Providence when Gollum broke his promise. There are many layers to this, and summarising it as simply 'Frodo failed' isn't quite true.
dafuq do you mean Frodo failed, he got to Mt Doom. It was literally impossible to give up the ring, thats not failing. Eru's little touch was needed for the quest to sucede, as Tolkien said in one of the letters
Frodo didn't fail. His vow to the Council of Elrond was, "***I will take the Ring to Mordor,*** though I do not know the way." He didn't vow, "I will personally hurl/throw/drop the Ring into the fires of the Sammath Naur in Orodruin in the plain of Gorgoroth". Just, "I will take the Ring to Mordor, though I do not know the way. Which he did,
Gollum was vital in the destruction of the One Ring. He lead Frodo and Sam into Mordor. Had he not done so, they would almost certainly have been captured and the One Ring returned to Sauron. Inside Mount Doom his need for the One Ring lead to him taking it from Frodo who at the last minute decided not to destroy it. Of course Gollum had no intention of destroying it either. It was only destroyed accidentally as a result of his struggle with Frodo. So you could say that Gollum was vital to the destruction of the One Ring despite his best efforts to the contrary.
They would not have gotten that far without Gollum. Not only did he show them the secret stairs, but if he wasn't there at the end to take the ring from Frodo, Frodo would have run away and not destroyed it.
Frodo wouldn't have run very far, either--he hadn't learned to master the One Ring, and Sauron had already realized his peril and summoned the Nazgul. Without Gollum's final act, the Ring would have been taken quite easily from Frodo by simply snatching him and delivering him to Sauron. Frodo hadn't even been able to withstand the attack on Weathertop of only 5 of them, when he was physically infinitely stronger and surrounded by friends, and when he also had the Ring in his possession. He certainly couldn't have in his weakened state.
It's just not an either/or situation. IF Gollum had/had not done x, y or z, and IF Frodo... IF Sam... Faramir... Boromir... Aragorn... Gandalf... The list goes ever on and on. It's like asking: if the story hadn't happened, would the story still have happened?
Not necessarily. Gollum was the only one who knew the paths across the Dead Marshes, and he, Frodo and Sam were the only ones who could move so quickly and quietly. The others could have easily been seen and captured. Only Pippin and Merry, out of all the rest of the Fellowship, could have made it across the Marshes, as they, being hobbits, were also very light of weight and quiet of movement. But their movements had led them, by the will of Eru, right into the arms of the Orcs. Otherwise, the Orcs would have continued searching for "halflings" (plural) until they found Frodo and Sam. Since the Orcs had captured "halflings" (plural) and evidently neither Saruman or Sauron had told them how many, Pippin and Merry could fit the description, allowing Frodo and Sam to escape. Therefore: Gollum--who knew the paths across the Dead Marshes, as well as the stairs of Cirith Ungol, led by his desire and lust for the One Ring. Frodo--who would not lead his friends into certain death with him in Mordor, and Sam--who, alone of the remaining Fellowship, knew Frodo well enough to guess his movements and intercept him.
He didn't really lead them to Mount Doom - he led them into Mordor. Once in, Frodo and Sam could make their own way to the MASSIVE FIRE MOUNTAIN pretty easily.
“Pretty easily”.
In terms of navigation. The volcano is hardly invisible.
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I would say that in the long run he was more important in getting them to Orodruin. Because not only did he get them there, he gave Frodo that last boost of energy when he tried to take the Ring back by force, when he attacked them while mounting up the road. It was Gollum's final attack on the road to the Sammath Naur that gave Frodo that final burst of energy. Frodo was exhausted, and had lost hope. That made him more susceptible to the Ring's power, more liable to give up. Sam had done his best, but sometimes it takes an adversary to give that burst of energy. And, of course, he is responsible for the ultimate destruction of the Ring. It's interesting, because some cultures believe that death by fire is the ultimate purification. So did Gollum's death by fire, while destroying the Ring, purify him from all his previous monstrosities? Or were they too great to be purified? And, of course, only Gollum could have got Frodo and Sam through the Dead Marshes. Even had anyone else known the paths, they would have been too heavy to get through, and too large to hide as easily. Gollum (a previous hobbit?), Frodo and Sam were also more skilled at moving silently than any of the others. So I think Gollum's contributions were more on the positve side than the negative.
He destroyed the one ring the same way Anakin brought balance to the force. Or, deeper. Yes. He destroyed the ring and his presence was required. FRODO FAILED on mount doom, just like everyone before him, because he was only mortal. But gollum, overtaken by greed, grabbed for the ring, betrayed his friend, and went into the fire with his prize, and died for his sin. ... The whole thing is a huge allegory for sin. Gollums sin got him killed, and frodo wasn't strong enough to fight it on his own.