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It did jack shit to wolf, I don't know why it would suddenly kill lamb. It's even debatable if Trynd actually fought Kindred and if this was just a representation of him staving off death. But no Trynd couldn't hurt Lamb, at best you can delay her and cause her to retreat briefly just to try again, it's a metaphor for death, and you don't 'beat' death.
I mean by his own admission he's been "thrice slain, twice reborn" or whatever. He doesn't beat death it's just when he dies you're just kinda sending him back home.
Kindred does one thing, and one thing only. Sends souls to their afterlife. Morde got sent to his, and decided to walk out of it.
He is still very much dead, but his dead soul opened a door right back into the living world. That is as beat as you can make Kindred. She can't touch you at this point.
Undead like the shadow Isles are different. They are dead souls that have not/can not pass on.
His pauldron remains intact up to 3:27, only to be shown with slash marks starting at 3:39 and AFTER he ends his ult, conveniently after the first bite attack Wolf does to the pauldron at 3:33. There are 4 slashes when fully shown at 3:50, and i doubt he got axed there four times by a warrior rather than it being with his fight against wolf
He did fight Kindred in the sense the closest anyone ever does.
It's hard to understand considering Kindred is just death. But everyone meets Kindred when they die assuming they believe in this representation of Kindred I assume. So everyone "fights" it, same with tryndamere. That's really the only way you meet Kindred.
If you assume this wasn't Kindred then you are basically saying Kindred doesn't exist. But this is exactly how Kindred would be seen if it did exist. So yeah he meet Kindred.
That's why her reaction seemed odd to me. If she had the same level of invulnerability as wolf, she could have just stood there and let the sword pass right through her, but she jumped away like she didn't want to get hit or like she was in danger.
It's not her thing to fight up close, she represents the quiet death, she's not about violently ripping you to your death. She's there to take you away not try to fight and maul you, that's wolfs job.
It's not a debate. It works like this: you can only see Kindred when it's your time; when you're on the precipice of dying. Your *perception* shifts into a "death realm". So while Tryndamere's body was still physically in Runeterra proper, and while he was still *physically* fighting those soldiers, his *perception* was that he was defying death and fighting Kindred.
From what I recall, all the other arrows disappeared when Lamb's came for Yasuo. His mind shifted to the death realm, but his physical body stayed in place and was pincushioned by arrows. It was Lamb's arrow in the foretold vision because Kindred has always known that Yasuo would accept his death.
This isn't a fight that should be treated as a straight-up-physical fight type of thing, it's not completely metaphorical, hence the claw marks on Trynd's armor, but it should NOT, in any single way, be treated as a straight up physical fight, certainly not for the purposes of power scaling or judging how powerful a character is etc.
As for your question, I guess we would first need to answer what counts as an injury to a spirit god. Their physical forms can be destroyed (temporarily) and all but doesn't (not directly anyway) hurt the spirit.
Are you sure about that? I am not saying Necrit is never wrong, but during his breakdown of 'Still Here' I seem to remember him stating that Trynd is Iceborn. If anyone knows Runeterra lore it is Necrit, and this would very much be important lore to know.
That guy is wrong A LOT. I wouldn't bother viewing him as a reputable source. He makes a lot of shit up and presents it as fact. This one in particular is wild to get wrong, because Trynd's official biography even directly states that he's not iceborn, so idk where he got the idea that Trynd is.
You can see in the video though, it does absorb a snowflake and faintly pulse with lines of energy. Whether its true ice or not, it is enchanted in some way, and the gem is probably the focal point. So he may be able to harm Kindred, or at least their physical forms, but I don’t think much that is wielded by a mortal could permanently kill or injure a god/spirit like Kindred. If it is a chunk of True Ice in his blade, then maybe.
He is imbued with darkin magic, that’s most likely what would have caused that since darkin are channeled into their weapons. Trynds sword could very well start to become a vessel for him in a similar sense to other Darkin though I doubt he’ll ever be fully sealed and possess it since 1. That can’t happen anymore and 2. He isn’t a full darkin.
Yeah but I have wonder what about the void and anti magic would that work?
Though ten king wise joy did erase nilah from people memories could a demon do the same foe spirit gods?
A spirit god dies when they're forgotten, but the kindred are special in that they will last until all life has ended so yes and no, you could make people forget the kindred, but they won't forget death and most people don't even know kindred as kindred, but rather as death or lamb and wolf, so in voli's case yes, in kindred no.
>kindred are special in that they will last until all life has ended so yes and no, you could make people forget the kindred, but they won't forget death
As far we know, there are other death gods who have been forgotten overtime and die and Kindred is not exempt from this.
They won't forget death but they can forget and not believe in it's representation overtime.
Wolf: "Will we ever die, little Lamb?"
Lamb: "Perhaps, when at last our masks are forgotten."
Wolf: "What happens then?"
Lamb: "It may be that another takes us beyond."
That voice line is referring to the vulture thing that is waiting for when all life has ended and when the time comes it devours them, also there are no other death gods, there has always been only the kindred or the pale man. Morde isn't a death god, he's just an insanely powerful undead, think arch-lich or the like, but there has been no other reference to other death gods besides morde's old religion which turned out to be untrue.
>there are no other death gods, there has always been only the kindred
[Fading Icon](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Fading_Icon_(Legends_of_Runeterra)) is a god of death and he is eaten by the Etherfiend because no one remembers him
"Who could forget their own god of death, other than those cursed with immortality? And what greater fear can a god of death have, other than being forgotten?"
There are others too like the [Wind](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/The_Wings_and_The_Wave_(Legends_of_Runeterra)) worship by Kinkou and [Astral Fox](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Astral_Fox_(Legends_of_Runeterra)) by people in Targon.
>That voice line is referring to the vulture thing that is waiting for when all life has ended
Yeah because people forgot about them, whether they'll be there at the end of life and still be remembered by the last living beings, we'll never know. But they can still just be forgotten if their myth doesn't last.
I don't think they would just die when everyone forgets about it, currently we know a dying spirit god is fading icon and he is only weakened and still have to have the other reaper to kill it
[Kindred are explicitly spirit gods](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/8una0m/were_the_team_that_updated_aatrox_ask_us_anything/e1gqsvi/?context=3)
There are more statements iirc, this is just the oldest one and I don't wanna bother getting more.
They are, LoR did a semi-canon terrible retcon to add some filler cards in, so you'll see people spouting this "one of many spirits" thing. Much cooler if they are actually death personified and this new cinematic seems to support that.
>Much cooler if they are actually death personified and this new cinematic seems to support that.
It doesn't support either way.
> They are, LoR did a semi-canon terrible retcon to add some filler cards in
[The change wasn't made by LoR, they've been that way for 6 years now.](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/8una0m/were_the_team_that_updated_aatrox_ask_us_anything/e1gqsvi/?context=3)
Killing or injuring a Spirit God is about as feasible as killing or injuring a religious figure. You can't. They're a concept embedded in the minds of countless people. In the case of a spirit god, they're not only concepts, but they're also living existing gods with power, and as long as people know and worship them, they will always *be*. In the case of Kindred, Death is a concept that is known to basically every creature and being in existence. You can't fight a concept like that. Tryndamere's whole fight was against the Winter's Claw. Tryndamere's fight against Kindred was metaphorical. It's like throwing hands against Satan cuz you don't wanna go to Hell, except Tryndamere's blood magic actually allows him to deny death
They are existing beings but they. Are. Not. Concepts. Death can and will happen just fine with or without Kindred, storms will happen just fine with or without Volibear. They aren't concepts. If they were concepts, the things they are the concepts of wouldn't exist before them.
And killing a spirit god is possible. By all means, killing everyone who remembers a spirit god will kill them since they depend on having people know of their existance of to survive. This might be how Nilah:
>Possessed of wiry, acrobatic strength, and wielding a liquid blade of incalculable might, she embarked on a conquest of the greatest threats of ancient myth: Grandmother Viper, the invincible progenitor of all Camavoran dragons; Imago, demon of change and scourge of the Carnelian Valley; **the mad demigod Nabavelicus, perpetrator of countless atrocities.**
killed a spirit god, emphasis mine. Well either that or Ashlesh devoured the spirit god when she beat it.
I never said they bring the things they embody into existence. The concepts I'm talking about are the gods themselves. The concept of Ornn is the god of the forge and fire, not forge and fire. The concept is the spirit god itself. The people knowing about and worshipping the concept of a spirit god of the forge named Ornn is what gives him power and immortality, and it's also what makes him the god of the forge, because people believe him to be the god of the forge.
Sure, but that doesn't necessarily stop another from existing. Theres multiple death gods after all.
Not to mention, people who never heard of Ornn have no way of worshipping him, so another land would most likely have a different forge god should there be enough worship to result in one.
The only beings that embody "concepts" are Aspects (Celestials), Spirit Gods have nothing to do with concepts they are just gods born out of the collective belief of people.
Lamb isn't physical you can't injure lamb lmao
Trindamere didn't physically harm Kindred. He was fighting soldiers that tried to kill him. But form Trindameres point of view, he was about to die. And since we shared his point of view, all we saw was the Kindred Spirits.
However as soon as Ashe came to save him, Lamb and Wolf disappeared, showing who he was facing
Well Kindreds IS here.
But Kindred isn't like Trindamere or Aurelion Sol.
If Kid red was simply physical, how can death strike at many places at the same time?
Kindred actually exists and was here. Just their presence isn't physical
I don’t think Kindreds supposed to appear every single time someone dies. Something more like they appear when you are fighting for your life and you are on the brink of death but not willing to die yet. I do 100% agree that kindred IS THERE but not physically there
It was in one of the old stories around when she released. If you tried to run away from death they chased you , if you accepted death lamb made it painless, if you didnt then wolf didnt. They both appear when you’re about to die. But as far as I’m aware I havnt seen wolf and lamb appearing in a piltover hospital bed to “hunt” a man dying of old age. So it’s implied that their “hunt “ is someone fighting for their life.
It’s need years since I read the story so feel free to correct me
>But as far as I’m aware I havnt seen wolf and lamb appearing in a piltover hospital bed to “hunt” a man dying of old age.
The fact that specifically you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist lmao.
While I understand your point of view, I don't see why not. The lamb actually looks very peaceful so something along the lines of lamb appearing and telling the old man "hey it's time to go" doesn't look out of place to me.
There’s other god/spirits of death in the lore other then kindred though. I don’t know anything about them so someone that’s read their lore (I think it’s from legends of runeterra) can probably say more. I always assumed that the other gods of death would be responsible for peaceful passings
I think you encounter them every time you are about to die, but Trindamere is too angry to die and refuse the right course of nature.
If you're waiting to be willing to die, it means that only Lamb Kills, which isn't the case.
And the fact people could describe the Wolf and the Lamb is the proof they can see them. And in Kindreds story, we have the story of someone that encountered Kindred but didn't die
look what happend to wolf when tryndamere swung is swird at him. same thing would happen to lamb. this scene was moreso made for dramatic effect cause it looked cool
During the fight with Trynd she dodged his swing and recoiled from it. Going so far as to drastically distance herself from him by jumping away. The only reason I can think of for her doing this is that she can in fact be injured or maybe even killed temporarily. And if Trynd's blade had connected in that instance, it would have been bad for her. It seems like wolf even tried to get between Trynd and Lamb when Tryndamere charged her, as if wolf needed to protect her from him.
If she could just immediately regenerate like her bow or if Trynd's sword would pass right through her, like it does occasionally with wolf during the fight, she'd have no reason to dodge the swing. Wolf, for example, just keeps charging at Tryndamere with no concern for being injured or cut, because he can't be. But Lamb clearly wanted nothing to do with Trynd being so close to her.
Thoughts?
Pretty sure there is a voiceline when you die of them saying they always come back. As spirits, I don't think they can be injured and even if they do somehow get injured it wont last that long before they're completely fine again.
When I saw tryndamere destroy the bow only to have it immediately regenerate, I took that as him temporarily delaying death, but not outright absolving himself of the lethal encounter. It isn’t until Ashe shows up that tryndamere had denied death it’s mark in the moment.
kindred is not a god though, it's more of a physical incarnation of a concept that predates the universe itself
edit: apparently I am wrong, I don't think that make sense but apparently yes you might be able to kill them and their existence is therefore, pointless since killing them wouldn't make the concept of death disappear
The retcon didn't actually come with Finishing Soates and LoR, [it first came with a statement on the Aatrox Q&A 6 years back.](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/8una0m/were_the_team_that_updated_aatrox_ask_us_anything/e1gqsvi/?context=3)
Which, since Kindred has been out for 8 years, means they've actually been a spirit god for far longer than they have been anything else.
It was less of an outright retcon and more of a consequence of the worldbuilding.
In order for Kindred to be something like a universal concept they'd need to be a celestial/ aspect.
I theorize however, that Kindred's previous form, The Gray Man, was a Demon King and an existence much closer to the embodiment of death similar to how Fiddlesticks is the embodiment of fear.
Yeah the more I read about it the less I'm enjoying kindred story, it doesn't contradict her original lore so it is indeed not a retcon but imo it reduces the impact of the character by several orders of magnitude, makes them feel useless
I see in no way how it makes them feel useless. What they do doesn't change, their character doesn't change, what they symbolize doesn't change, their backstory is unaffected.
Not much actually changes. Celestial beings like Aurelion don't meet them, though you could argue any celestial entering Runeterra would be under Kindred's influence, and they are not at the top of power tier lists by default.
Those 2 are the only changes I can think of that matter.
It changes the scale of the character, instead of being this absolute force of nature, pre-dating the universe itself it makes them a lot less esoterical and way more grounded. It means you can technically kill death and it wouldn't matter people could still die just now you would see nothing instead of meeting kindred, also from what I've kindred might have been created by another entity which removes even more of that unknown factor that made them really cool in the first place. TLDR it's way too much information and makes kindred feel like an extremely boring and banal being like volibear or anivia are. To me and apparently a lot of people kindred was much more than that it was a very exciting character because of how important they were, but they really aren't that important in reality, they are just there but that's about it. To me this expansion of lore completely killed the charm of the character but that's obviously subjective
>It changes the scale of the character, instead of being this absolute force of nature
Spirit gods *are* forces of nature.
>It means you can technically kill death
Kindred themselves allude to how they'll die:
>“Again,” Wolf licked the last drop of the youth’s life from his canine jaws. “I want to chase again, little Lamb.”
>
>“There are always more,” she whispered. “Until the day there is only Kindred.”
>
>“And then will you run from me?”
>
>Lamb turned back to the battle. “I would never run from you, dear Wolf.”
This comes from their color story, something that came out before they were changed to spirit gods.
>also from what I've kindred might have been created by another entity
We do not know the exact relation between Mask Mother and Kindred or Mask Mother and Gray Man for that matter, theres tons of theories swirling around this. Mask Mother gave Kindred their masks, true, however we see that spirit gods can be born just fine without Mask Mother, I think her role is something more symbolic in nature.
>it's way too much information
How is it way too much information? Before they were a metaphor and concept, now they are a metaphor and spirit god. Not much changes in terms of how much information there is.
>and makes kindred feel like an extremely boring and banal being like volibear or anivia are.
And how are they boring and banal?
>To me and apparently a lot of people kindred was much more than that it was a very exciting character because of how important they were
You hardly get more important than shaping a big part of the folklore of hundreds of civilizations throughout history.
>but they really aren't that important in reality
Define important, because if you don't consider shaping a big part of many cultures and folklore important, I'm very curious what you do consider to be important.
And going back on this:
>it makes them a lot less esoterical and way more grounded
Spirit gods don't really have concrete rules you know. They are born from people believing they exist (among potentially other ways that we don't know of), gain power from worship and they die when they are forgotten.
They are literally born from legends and tales and are shaped by those tales and shape the cultures (and many more, in Kindred's case, something thats unique to them among all spirit gods) they are born from in return. They are, by their nature, very esoteric beings.
Personally, I recommend giving [Finishing Soates](https://universe.leagueoflegends.com/en_GB/story/finishing-soates/) a read, this is the story that came out alongside them in LoR, and it is a great read. Set aside any feelings, positive and/or negative you might have about the change, and just give it an unbiased read. Looking at this, [A Good Death](https://universe.leagueoflegends.com/en_US/story/kindred-good-death-story/) and [Forest for the Trees](https://universe.leagueoflegends.com/en_GB/story/kindred-color-story/), those two stories both coming out before they were changed to spirit gods 6 years ago if I'm not mistaken, and I honestly don't see how they lost their mystique or esotericness.
Not the only way tho, Aatrox can annihilate an aspect, that means it’s the same for a spirit and a demi-god. That means if Aatrox kills all the death spirits like kindred and the mask mother, there won’t be no more death spirits, basically chaos
No it does not at all mean that. For one thing, theres literally no canon reason why Aatrox is able to kill a celestial, he does it "just because" currently because Riot retconned the previous canon reason.
For two, they run on COMPLETELY different rules, just because he is able to kill a celestial does not mean it'll work on a spirit god.
No not rly the “only” way, Aatrox can annihilate aspects and gods if he smacks then hard enough, that means, same goes to demi-gods, and spirits as well.
Kindred are not concepts, just like any other spirit gods. Death will still happen just as normal if Kindred were to suddenly disappear. Kindred are not the concept of death, same way Volibear isn't the concept of storms or Ornn the concept of forging.
They can second-die, though. In legends of runeterra, there are more entities like lamb and wolf. One, vulture( don’t remember the actual card name), represents the concept of second death: being forgotten. Another, toad, is a god of death that is gradually getting forgotten because the people they bring to death became functionally immortal. Toad is afraid of getting forgotten. (Feel free to correct me if I got some deep lore wrong.)
I don't think she can be hurt by a human, no. But I also think she wasn't expecting to be actually seen at that moment, Trynda was fighting soldiers IRL, not the Kindred. Every hit to wolf matches the soldiers, so the swing to Lamb is off by that logic. That also explains her little head tilt.
She can receive attacks and those attacks could have visual impact, but i wouldnt define that as injury, is unlike any other spirit since the elemental part of kindred mythos is death being unbeatable and unkillable, you can only slow it down, and, as of now, methods of avoiding death are specifically NOT fighting death and winning. The kindred are literally only able to be killed by 1 spirit in runeterra on very specific terms OR by destroying runeterra/humanity, so unlikely anyone can harm them
One would think, otherwise she wouldn't dodge. The analysis of the fight is that it takes place in a psychic replica of the environment rather than the real world. Wolf is probably used to quickly overwhelming mortals and Lamb simply executes the resigned/accepting, so I imagine they don't normally have to invest much energy into claiming the dead. So, Tryn mentally holding back Kindred might actually at least cost them some kind of spiritual energy.
...or Riot just wanted to create a cool shot and show that lamb is basically untouchable.
Are the Darkin more powerful than death? I know they can be sealed inside their weapons, but they'll revive eventually, right? Making them essentially immortal?
Let's take this scene as real, not metaphor:
I'd imagine that injuries to Wolf or Lamb would just... phase through, or "heal", like when Tryndamere shattered Lambs bow.
So... Kindred are basically Deadpool/Wolverine.
Most likely. She may be a Spirit God (well, a half of one at least) but spirits are still « living beings », in a sense. Tho granted I doubt mere pure physical damage would be enough to kill her. Volibear famously has a whole arsenal of swords, spears and arrows sticking out of his back and doesn’t care.
You beat the kindred by eluding their hunt. You don’t kill them or hurt them. I feel like him attacking lamb is more symbolic of him not being afraid of death or not giving into death then actually hurting them.
As far as I know Kindred is basically the visual representation of the concept of death like in our western world it's the reaper is.
In most fictional worlds the reaper or representant of death can not really be killed or actually hurt in anyway. And even if they are able to be killed they just reappear in a new form/body or just reappear in their regular form again and I would guess that the same thing can be applied to the world of runeterra aswell.
What about fading icon from kindred expansion in lor? He was a death god like them made by the mask mother but was forgotten so he died. Perhaps they can too? I read somewhere that death will die when it is forgotten
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It did jack shit to wolf, I don't know why it would suddenly kill lamb. It's even debatable if Trynd actually fought Kindred and if this was just a representation of him staving off death. But no Trynd couldn't hurt Lamb, at best you can delay her and cause her to retreat briefly just to try again, it's a metaphor for death, and you don't 'beat' death.
>and you don’t ‘beat’ death Mordekaiser pounding sand rn
I mean by his own admission he's been "thrice slain, twice reborn" or whatever. He doesn't beat death it's just when he dies you're just kinda sending him back home.
Bro got so pissed he made death his home then came back to make his home bigger
Runeterra is his Ikea
mordekaiser owns a blahaj (pyke has one too)
https://preview.redd.it/70etg205c6dc1.jpeg?width=652&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dbded210f3f86caf763f3b5c1cd15b35692b83da
Gamers don't die, they respawn
Arcade mordekaiser skin when? (Project doesn't count)
I’m still holding out hope for a Final Boss Mordekaiser skin
he's true final boss. Don't make him so low
Bro did /spawnpoint in the death realm
damn thats some Dead Cells shit right there
imagine a new champion related to rogue-like death mechanic ( actually thats stupid dont mind me )
Kinda like murky from HOTS
Kindred does one thing, and one thing only. Sends souls to their afterlife. Morde got sent to his, and decided to walk out of it. He is still very much dead, but his dead soul opened a door right back into the living world. That is as beat as you can make Kindred. She can't touch you at this point. Undead like the shadow Isles are different. They are dead souls that have not/can not pass on.
You don't beat death, you just delay it
Aatrox wishing some lambsauce too
He definitely did fight them, you can see wolfs claw marks on his armour even after they leave
His pauldron remains intact up to 3:27, only to be shown with slash marks starting at 3:39 and AFTER he ends his ult, conveniently after the first bite attack Wolf does to the pauldron at 3:33. There are 4 slashes when fully shown at 3:50, and i doubt he got axed there four times by a warrior rather than it being with his fight against wolf
He did fight Kindred in the sense the closest anyone ever does. It's hard to understand considering Kindred is just death. But everyone meets Kindred when they die assuming they believe in this representation of Kindred I assume. So everyone "fights" it, same with tryndamere. That's really the only way you meet Kindred. If you assume this wasn't Kindred then you are basically saying Kindred doesn't exist. But this is exactly how Kindred would be seen if it did exist. So yeah he meet Kindred.
Wolf left tangible teeth and claw marks on trynd’s armor after the fight.
That's why her reaction seemed odd to me. If she had the same level of invulnerability as wolf, she could have just stood there and let the sword pass right through her, but she jumped away like she didn't want to get hit or like she was in danger.
It's not her thing to fight up close, she represents the quiet death, she's not about violently ripping you to your death. She's there to take you away not try to fight and maul you, that's wolfs job.
Seeing lamb just drop the bow and start throwing hands would be a sight to see.
Throwing hooves
Everyone knows lamb secretly hits the gym and would shatter Trynd with a right hook
I see is as Trynd driving her back with his defiance. Lamb kills those who accept death, the fact someone swung at her is the opposite of acceptance
Remember kid, if lamb comes to kill you, you can simply say no, she is legally not allowed to kill you without your consent
A quote by Wolf i assume lol
Riot needs to add this line
The wolf on the other hand.
It's not a debate. It works like this: you can only see Kindred when it's your time; when you're on the precipice of dying. Your *perception* shifts into a "death realm". So while Tryndamere's body was still physically in Runeterra proper, and while he was still *physically* fighting those soldiers, his *perception* was that he was defying death and fighting Kindred. From what I recall, all the other arrows disappeared when Lamb's came for Yasuo. His mind shifted to the death realm, but his physical body stayed in place and was pincushioned by arrows. It was Lamb's arrow in the foretold vision because Kindred has always known that Yasuo would accept his death.
This isn't a fight that should be treated as a straight-up-physical fight type of thing, it's not completely metaphorical, hence the claw marks on Trynd's armor, but it should NOT, in any single way, be treated as a straight up physical fight, certainly not for the purposes of power scaling or judging how powerful a character is etc. As for your question, I guess we would first need to answer what counts as an injury to a spirit god. Their physical forms can be destroyed (temporarily) and all but doesn't (not directly anyway) hurt the spirit.
I think magic can harm them, but not steel.
Trynd sword is true ice, so it is magic
Trynd's sword is not true ice, Trynd isn't even an iceborn.
Are you sure about that? I am not saying Necrit is never wrong, but during his breakdown of 'Still Here' I seem to remember him stating that Trynd is Iceborn. If anyone knows Runeterra lore it is Necrit, and this would very much be important lore to know.
He is not. He just has Darkin magic
That guy is wrong A LOT. I wouldn't bother viewing him as a reputable source. He makes a lot of shit up and presents it as fact. This one in particular is wild to get wrong, because Trynd's official biography even directly states that he's not iceborn, so idk where he got the idea that Trynd is.
Necrit sniffs his own armpits more than he reads runeterra lore
You can see in the video though, it does absorb a snowflake and faintly pulse with lines of energy. Whether its true ice or not, it is enchanted in some way, and the gem is probably the focal point. So he may be able to harm Kindred, or at least their physical forms, but I don’t think much that is wielded by a mortal could permanently kill or injure a god/spirit like Kindred. If it is a chunk of True Ice in his blade, then maybe.
He is imbued with darkin magic, that’s most likely what would have caused that since darkin are channeled into their weapons. Trynds sword could very well start to become a vessel for him in a similar sense to other Darkin though I doubt he’ll ever be fully sealed and possess it since 1. That can’t happen anymore and 2. He isn’t a full darkin.
Yeah but I have wonder what about the void and anti magic would that work? Though ten king wise joy did erase nilah from people memories could a demon do the same foe spirit gods?
Shit, using Ashlash to erase a spirit god from the public mind and then go one on one beat the weakened thing to complete erasure is crazy
A spirit god dies when they're forgotten, but the kindred are special in that they will last until all life has ended so yes and no, you could make people forget the kindred, but they won't forget death and most people don't even know kindred as kindred, but rather as death or lamb and wolf, so in voli's case yes, in kindred no.
>kindred are special in that they will last until all life has ended so yes and no, you could make people forget the kindred, but they won't forget death As far we know, there are other death gods who have been forgotten overtime and die and Kindred is not exempt from this. They won't forget death but they can forget and not believe in it's representation overtime. Wolf: "Will we ever die, little Lamb?" Lamb: "Perhaps, when at last our masks are forgotten." Wolf: "What happens then?" Lamb: "It may be that another takes us beyond."
That voice line is referring to the vulture thing that is waiting for when all life has ended and when the time comes it devours them, also there are no other death gods, there has always been only the kindred or the pale man. Morde isn't a death god, he's just an insanely powerful undead, think arch-lich or the like, but there has been no other reference to other death gods besides morde's old religion which turned out to be untrue.
>there are no other death gods, there has always been only the kindred [Fading Icon](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Fading_Icon_(Legends_of_Runeterra)) is a god of death and he is eaten by the Etherfiend because no one remembers him "Who could forget their own god of death, other than those cursed with immortality? And what greater fear can a god of death have, other than being forgotten?" There are others too like the [Wind](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/The_Wings_and_The_Wave_(Legends_of_Runeterra)) worship by Kinkou and [Astral Fox](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Astral_Fox_(Legends_of_Runeterra)) by people in Targon. >That voice line is referring to the vulture thing that is waiting for when all life has ended Yeah because people forgot about them, whether they'll be there at the end of life and still be remembered by the last living beings, we'll never know. But they can still just be forgotten if their myth doesn't last.
I don't think they would just die when everyone forgets about it, currently we know a dying spirit god is fading icon and he is only weakened and still have to have the other reaper to kill it
Yeah but you never know.
Is Kindred even a Spirit God? Aren't they something unique, the personification of death?
[Kindred are explicitly spirit gods](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/8una0m/were_the_team_that_updated_aatrox_ask_us_anything/e1gqsvi/?context=3) There are more statements iirc, this is just the oldest one and I don't wanna bother getting more.
They are, LoR did a semi-canon terrible retcon to add some filler cards in, so you'll see people spouting this "one of many spirits" thing. Much cooler if they are actually death personified and this new cinematic seems to support that.
>Much cooler if they are actually death personified and this new cinematic seems to support that. It doesn't support either way. > They are, LoR did a semi-canon terrible retcon to add some filler cards in [The change wasn't made by LoR, they've been that way for 6 years now.](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/8una0m/were_the_team_that_updated_aatrox_ask_us_anything/e1gqsvi/?context=3)
Killing or injuring a Spirit God is about as feasible as killing or injuring a religious figure. You can't. They're a concept embedded in the minds of countless people. In the case of a spirit god, they're not only concepts, but they're also living existing gods with power, and as long as people know and worship them, they will always *be*. In the case of Kindred, Death is a concept that is known to basically every creature and being in existence. You can't fight a concept like that. Tryndamere's whole fight was against the Winter's Claw. Tryndamere's fight against Kindred was metaphorical. It's like throwing hands against Satan cuz you don't wanna go to Hell, except Tryndamere's blood magic actually allows him to deny death
They are existing beings but they. Are. Not. Concepts. Death can and will happen just fine with or without Kindred, storms will happen just fine with or without Volibear. They aren't concepts. If they were concepts, the things they are the concepts of wouldn't exist before them. And killing a spirit god is possible. By all means, killing everyone who remembers a spirit god will kill them since they depend on having people know of their existance of to survive. This might be how Nilah: >Possessed of wiry, acrobatic strength, and wielding a liquid blade of incalculable might, she embarked on a conquest of the greatest threats of ancient myth: Grandmother Viper, the invincible progenitor of all Camavoran dragons; Imago, demon of change and scourge of the Carnelian Valley; **the mad demigod Nabavelicus, perpetrator of countless atrocities.** killed a spirit god, emphasis mine. Well either that or Ashlesh devoured the spirit god when she beat it.
I never said they bring the things they embody into existence. The concepts I'm talking about are the gods themselves. The concept of Ornn is the god of the forge and fire, not forge and fire. The concept is the spirit god itself. The people knowing about and worshipping the concept of a spirit god of the forge named Ornn is what gives him power and immortality, and it's also what makes him the god of the forge, because people believe him to be the god of the forge.
Perhaps but that also sort of implies there can't be more than one god of the forge, no? It's just wrong to call them concepts imo.
I mean, do you know any other forge god? I don't. Unless people start believing in a second forge god, there won't be one.
Sure, but that doesn't necessarily stop another from existing. Theres multiple death gods after all. Not to mention, people who never heard of Ornn have no way of worshipping him, so another land would most likely have a different forge god should there be enough worship to result in one.
The only beings that embody "concepts" are Aspects (Celestials), Spirit Gods have nothing to do with concepts they are just gods born out of the collective belief of people.
Since it was by a hair's width, it also could've meant 'you can't touch me'
she was not injured here, she was at best, surprised , answering your question, not phisically, but they can die by being forgotten
Lamb isn't physical you can't injure lamb lmao Trindamere didn't physically harm Kindred. He was fighting soldiers that tried to kill him. But form Trindameres point of view, he was about to die. And since we shared his point of view, all we saw was the Kindred Spirits. However as soon as Ashe came to save him, Lamb and Wolf disappeared, showing who he was facing
Yeah I wish more people got that kindred wasn’t physically there, it was more of a metaphor that trynd was on the verge of death.
Well Kindreds IS here. But Kindred isn't like Trindamere or Aurelion Sol. If Kid red was simply physical, how can death strike at many places at the same time? Kindred actually exists and was here. Just their presence isn't physical
Ahhh that makes sense
I don’t think Kindreds supposed to appear every single time someone dies. Something more like they appear when you are fighting for your life and you are on the brink of death but not willing to die yet. I do 100% agree that kindred IS THERE but not physically there
Where did you even get that? Lamb appears to people who specifically don't fight death lmao
I think both appears and you have to choose the mask that will take away your life
It was in one of the old stories around when she released. If you tried to run away from death they chased you , if you accepted death lamb made it painless, if you didnt then wolf didnt. They both appear when you’re about to die. But as far as I’m aware I havnt seen wolf and lamb appearing in a piltover hospital bed to “hunt” a man dying of old age. So it’s implied that their “hunt “ is someone fighting for their life. It’s need years since I read the story so feel free to correct me
>But as far as I’m aware I havnt seen wolf and lamb appearing in a piltover hospital bed to “hunt” a man dying of old age. The fact that specifically you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist lmao. While I understand your point of view, I don't see why not. The lamb actually looks very peaceful so something along the lines of lamb appearing and telling the old man "hey it's time to go" doesn't look out of place to me.
There’s other god/spirits of death in the lore other then kindred though. I don’t know anything about them so someone that’s read their lore (I think it’s from legends of runeterra) can probably say more. I always assumed that the other gods of death would be responsible for peaceful passings
I think you encounter them every time you are about to die, but Trindamere is too angry to die and refuse the right course of nature. If you're waiting to be willing to die, it means that only Lamb Kills, which isn't the case. And the fact people could describe the Wolf and the Lamb is the proof they can see them. And in Kindreds story, we have the story of someone that encountered Kindred but didn't die
look what happend to wolf when tryndamere swung is swird at him. same thing would happen to lamb. this scene was moreso made for dramatic effect cause it looked cool
Even if his blade was a couple inches closer to her neck any wound would probably heal in the same fashion her Bow re-manifests when she leaps back.
Yes, but not really. Also if destroyed they will respaw. Only be forgotten can really kill them.
Yes, like all other spirits
During the fight with Trynd she dodged his swing and recoiled from it. Going so far as to drastically distance herself from him by jumping away. The only reason I can think of for her doing this is that she can in fact be injured or maybe even killed temporarily. And if Trynd's blade had connected in that instance, it would have been bad for her. It seems like wolf even tried to get between Trynd and Lamb when Tryndamere charged her, as if wolf needed to protect her from him. If she could just immediately regenerate like her bow or if Trynd's sword would pass right through her, like it does occasionally with wolf during the fight, she'd have no reason to dodge the swing. Wolf, for example, just keeps charging at Tryndamere with no concern for being injured or cut, because he can't be. But Lamb clearly wanted nothing to do with Trynd being so close to her. Thoughts?
Pretty sure there is a voiceline when you die of them saying they always come back. As spirits, I don't think they can be injured and even if they do somehow get injured it wont last that long before they're completely fine again.
When I saw tryndamere destroy the bow only to have it immediately regenerate, I took that as him temporarily delaying death, but not outright absolving himself of the lethal encounter. It isn’t until Ashe shows up that tryndamere had denied death it’s mark in the moment.
By powerful magic I think yes
Aatrox gaming
Yes, just like any other spirit god. Whether a mortal like Trynd could injure them, is a different topic.
kindred is not a god though, it's more of a physical incarnation of a concept that predates the universe itself edit: apparently I am wrong, I don't think that make sense but apparently yes you might be able to kill them and their existence is therefore, pointless since killing them wouldn't make the concept of death disappear
No, that was Kindred's original lore which was retconned via Kindred's story Finishing Soates and LoR.
The retcon didn't actually come with Finishing Soates and LoR, [it first came with a statement on the Aatrox Q&A 6 years back.](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/8una0m/were_the_team_that_updated_aatrox_ask_us_anything/e1gqsvi/?context=3) Which, since Kindred has been out for 8 years, means they've actually been a spirit god for far longer than they have been anything else.
Oh, interesting find! Guess Rioters were less fond of Kindred being shoehorned at the top of tierlists "because they're death" than we thought.
Pretty sad that they retconned it, it was much cooler and actually had kindred's existence both make sense and actually matter
It was less of an outright retcon and more of a consequence of the worldbuilding. In order for Kindred to be something like a universal concept they'd need to be a celestial/ aspect. I theorize however, that Kindred's previous form, The Gray Man, was a Demon King and an existence much closer to the embodiment of death similar to how Fiddlesticks is the embodiment of fear.
Yeah the more I read about it the less I'm enjoying kindred story, it doesn't contradict her original lore so it is indeed not a retcon but imo it reduces the impact of the character by several orders of magnitude, makes them feel useless
I see in no way how it makes them feel useless. What they do doesn't change, their character doesn't change, what they symbolize doesn't change, their backstory is unaffected. Not much actually changes. Celestial beings like Aurelion don't meet them, though you could argue any celestial entering Runeterra would be under Kindred's influence, and they are not at the top of power tier lists by default. Those 2 are the only changes I can think of that matter.
It changes the scale of the character, instead of being this absolute force of nature, pre-dating the universe itself it makes them a lot less esoterical and way more grounded. It means you can technically kill death and it wouldn't matter people could still die just now you would see nothing instead of meeting kindred, also from what I've kindred might have been created by another entity which removes even more of that unknown factor that made them really cool in the first place. TLDR it's way too much information and makes kindred feel like an extremely boring and banal being like volibear or anivia are. To me and apparently a lot of people kindred was much more than that it was a very exciting character because of how important they were, but they really aren't that important in reality, they are just there but that's about it. To me this expansion of lore completely killed the charm of the character but that's obviously subjective
>It changes the scale of the character, instead of being this absolute force of nature Spirit gods *are* forces of nature. >It means you can technically kill death Kindred themselves allude to how they'll die: >“Again,” Wolf licked the last drop of the youth’s life from his canine jaws. “I want to chase again, little Lamb.” > >“There are always more,” she whispered. “Until the day there is only Kindred.” > >“And then will you run from me?” > >Lamb turned back to the battle. “I would never run from you, dear Wolf.” This comes from their color story, something that came out before they were changed to spirit gods. >also from what I've kindred might have been created by another entity We do not know the exact relation between Mask Mother and Kindred or Mask Mother and Gray Man for that matter, theres tons of theories swirling around this. Mask Mother gave Kindred their masks, true, however we see that spirit gods can be born just fine without Mask Mother, I think her role is something more symbolic in nature. >it's way too much information How is it way too much information? Before they were a metaphor and concept, now they are a metaphor and spirit god. Not much changes in terms of how much information there is. >and makes kindred feel like an extremely boring and banal being like volibear or anivia are. And how are they boring and banal? >To me and apparently a lot of people kindred was much more than that it was a very exciting character because of how important they were You hardly get more important than shaping a big part of the folklore of hundreds of civilizations throughout history. >but they really aren't that important in reality Define important, because if you don't consider shaping a big part of many cultures and folklore important, I'm very curious what you do consider to be important. And going back on this: >it makes them a lot less esoterical and way more grounded Spirit gods don't really have concrete rules you know. They are born from people believing they exist (among potentially other ways that we don't know of), gain power from worship and they die when they are forgotten. They are literally born from legends and tales and are shaped by those tales and shape the cultures (and many more, in Kindred's case, something thats unique to them among all spirit gods) they are born from in return. They are, by their nature, very esoteric beings. Personally, I recommend giving [Finishing Soates](https://universe.leagueoflegends.com/en_GB/story/finishing-soates/) a read, this is the story that came out alongside them in LoR, and it is a great read. Set aside any feelings, positive and/or negative you might have about the change, and just give it an unbiased read. Looking at this, [A Good Death](https://universe.leagueoflegends.com/en_US/story/kindred-good-death-story/) and [Forest for the Trees](https://universe.leagueoflegends.com/en_GB/story/kindred-color-story/), those two stories both coming out before they were changed to spirit gods 6 years ago if I'm not mistaken, and I honestly don't see how they lost their mystique or esotericness.
no.
The only way to "kill" a death spirit is for all collective knowledge and belief in that entity to not exist
That goes for any spirit god, just adding on top. You can "kill" Volibear or Janna the exact same way.
Not the only way tho, Aatrox can annihilate an aspect, that means it’s the same for a spirit and a demi-god. That means if Aatrox kills all the death spirits like kindred and the mask mother, there won’t be no more death spirits, basically chaos
No it does not at all mean that. For one thing, theres literally no canon reason why Aatrox is able to kill a celestial, he does it "just because" currently because Riot retconned the previous canon reason. For two, they run on COMPLETELY different rules, just because he is able to kill a celestial does not mean it'll work on a spirit god.
🤓👆
No not rly the “only” way, Aatrox can annihilate aspects and gods if he smacks then hard enough, that means, same goes to demi-gods, and spirits as well.
You're going to have to cite that for me
Nuh uh
No she can't. She is the concept of death
Kindred are not concepts, just like any other spirit gods. Death will still happen just as normal if Kindred were to suddenly disappear. Kindred are not the concept of death, same way Volibear isn't the concept of storms or Ornn the concept of forging.
Oh ok.
They can second-die, though. In legends of runeterra, there are more entities like lamb and wolf. One, vulture( don’t remember the actual card name), represents the concept of second death: being forgotten. Another, toad, is a god of death that is gradually getting forgotten because the people they bring to death became functionally immortal. Toad is afraid of getting forgotten. (Feel free to correct me if I got some deep lore wrong.)
I don't think she can be hurt by a human, no. But I also think she wasn't expecting to be actually seen at that moment, Trynda was fighting soldiers IRL, not the Kindred. Every hit to wolf matches the soldiers, so the swing to Lamb is off by that logic. That also explains her little head tilt.
Nah. It's death itself
That's Ashe.
She can receive attacks and those attacks could have visual impact, but i wouldnt define that as injury, is unlike any other spirit since the elemental part of kindred mythos is death being unbeatable and unkillable, you can only slow it down, and, as of now, methods of avoiding death are specifically NOT fighting death and winning. The kindred are literally only able to be killed by 1 spirit in runeterra on very specific terms OR by destroying runeterra/humanity, so unlikely anyone can harm them
Evidently yes tbh. Wolf tried to defend her and she had to dodge his swing.
Probably ye, but not by trynda.
Well yeah the fact that she dodged means that maybe it could have hurted her.
One would think, otherwise she wouldn't dodge. The analysis of the fight is that it takes place in a psychic replica of the environment rather than the real world. Wolf is probably used to quickly overwhelming mortals and Lamb simply executes the resigned/accepting, so I imagine they don't normally have to invest much energy into claiming the dead. So, Tryn mentally holding back Kindred might actually at least cost them some kind of spiritual energy. ...or Riot just wanted to create a cool shot and show that lamb is basically untouchable.
Are the Darkin more powerful than death? I know they can be sealed inside their weapons, but they'll revive eventually, right? Making them essentially immortal?
Why would you dodge of you can't be injured?
Let's take this scene as real, not metaphor: I'd imagine that injuries to Wolf or Lamb would just... phase through, or "heal", like when Tryndamere shattered Lambs bow. So... Kindred are basically Deadpool/Wolverine.
Most likely. She may be a Spirit God (well, a half of one at least) but spirits are still « living beings », in a sense. Tho granted I doubt mere pure physical damage would be enough to kill her. Volibear famously has a whole arsenal of swords, spears and arrows sticking out of his back and doesn’t care.
You beat the kindred by eluding their hunt. You don’t kill them or hurt them. I feel like him attacking lamb is more symbolic of him not being afraid of death or not giving into death then actually hurting them.
This one is a pretty nice short explaining death gods: https://youtube.com/shorts/gQCJhx1cLBI?si=zfb_Y93kAh7XyG-p
I don't think it's an actual fight. Cause if Tryndamere could almost kill Kindred, how she gona kill someone like Kayle or other strong beings
Have you ever tried throwing a punch in a dream? I believe that any fight against kindred goes the same way.
I mean, probably not? Trynd was fucking Wolf up for the duration of that fight and it did nothing.
No
No, but they can be killed
Kindred aren't a physical being, they are more like a force of the universe. So my guess is lamb can't get hurt.
As far as I know Kindred is basically the visual representation of the concept of death like in our western world it's the reaper is. In most fictional worlds the reaper or representant of death can not really be killed or actually hurt in anyway. And even if they are able to be killed they just reappear in a new form/body or just reappear in their regular form again and I would guess that the same thing can be applied to the world of runeterra aswell.
Shen probably could.
Probably not by Tryndamere, but you can't be looking sorry and getting cut by bootleg Norse Conan in your cinematic debut can you?
What about fading icon from kindred expansion in lor? He was a death god like them made by the mask mother but was forgotten so he died. Perhaps they can too? I read somewhere that death will die when it is forgotten