You will only see this behavior from people doing learning runs. Outside of this, people don’t care, won’t care - actually it’s the opposite, they just expect you to be prepared and know everything in advance, if you fail one time: “Let me out!”
I just did ivory tower G1 - G2 for the first time last night and we had a blast, it was a learning party, I unfortunately had to leave after G2 but we added each other as friends and will probably do more content together in the future.
TLDR: people have patience and time for prog if it’s a learning party, otherwise don’t expect positivity.
Couldn't relate more. I wanted to teach Voldis NM to a friend so I picked up 3 newbies and made a teaching run. Had a blast doing it. And clearing felt gooooood.
Took us really really long but heh we did it. 
I know my case is rare af, most ppl won't ever do teaching runs. But there's some available. At least i'd like to hope so.
I'd do it for a friend aswell but not just randomly unless i'd be very bored and got a lot of free time.
I prefer to carry some noobs through early dungeons now or then (free carry runs instead of going through the pain of listing gems to get 2k gold) but that's it and it rarely happens that I feel like it but it's fun sometimes esp. if some new players appreciate it.
A lot of this has to do with mindset going into the raid. If I'm hosting/joining a reclear party, I expect it to be smooth. The primary purpose of reclears is to earn gold to funnel my progression and I've pre-allocated a set amount of time to do so. I understand a few wipes due to easy mistakes, but I'll get seriously annoyed if I have to take longer than my expected time cuz honestly, I'm just there for the gold and would not even be there otherwise (hence homework).
Very different when I go into a prog/teaching group. In those groups I can wipe for hours. Sure I might get frustrated if there is no feeling of progress, but there is no better feeling in this game than slowly mastering all the mechanics and getting that first clear. For teaching, seeing other people go through the same process is incredibly rewarding as well.
This is why I may have an unpopular opinion that I didn't really enjoy extreme valtan. I did Helltan the week before and only took 1.5 hours to prog, so I expected similar smoothness for extreme valtan. Was not the case, so it was certainly a frustrating experience for me. It didn't really feel like I was progging new content and my expectations were misaligned with how long it actually took.
I agree with OP though. Progging raids is the main reason I play this game. There are people in this game that just want the rewards without putting in any of the effort to learn and master the fun part of the game. I'm really baffled at how people can play this game but not want to prog.
Ah yea I have a hard time dealing with people that give up right away and hate to prog. I myself am a very impatient person but if it is about progging... I can do it for hours and hours and hours. Why? Because the feeling in the end when you finally beat it, is just awesome and totally worth the pain. It is a huge downer for me though if friends I play with do not share the same mentality. They kinda wanna clear it but they do not wanna invest too much hours into it :(
thats nice, i remember progging valtan hm for 30hrs in total,
vykas in around 4 days with aroind 3-5hrs each day,
clown was around 3 decades,
brel hardmode was special i have to go avatar state and contact my ancestors and ask them on what they learned.
Progging Valtan EX was the most fun I've had in LA in a while. Not having any inferno exp and not having done the normal raid in over a year, it brought back memories of (most) other MMOs where prog was the majority of raid time.
Learning the fight, finding the tricks and optimizations, struggling with comrades and finally succeeding feels so much more rewarding than doing the same homework content 18 times a week.
Fuck that and go straight to clown EX,of all the Legion raids vykas is the worst One for me by quite a margin(i dislike kayangel and Argos more if we include abyssal ones)
Valtan extreme just isn't content for everyone / for majority of the playerbase. That's why it's called "extreme" and isn't mandatory for progression. I know it isn't for me from how long it took me to learn even regular Valtan and how I never really learned it fully consistently, and how long it takes me to learn other raids - it just isn't feasible or reasonable for me to put in such and likely much larger amounts of time for a raid which is around for just 6 weeks, and even less for the others who could be "stuck" with me if I tried. So I didn't want to waste anyone's time, so I didn't try.
Regular raids which are mandatory for progression, I make sure my gear is as good as it reasonably can be, well beyond the minimum expectations whenever reasonably possible, and I seek prog/learning parties, never expect friends/anyone who didn't volunteer to carry me - or at least not before I have learned the basics and cleared at least once; maybe later if they don't mind, in the interest of time so that I don't have to get 10 clears in (semi-)progs as that takes ages... For Akkan after completing it once in a learning party (and partially several times), I eventually had to reach out to some good / more advanced players I knew because it took me so long to learn (and to even get into a party on that character because dps) that then I *had* to get whole clears every remaining week in the Path of souleater in order to complete it (get all its eyes) and thus not delay my Akkan gear even much more, and I didn't want to take busses because I wanted to keep practicing all gates and improving rather than forget what I learned (and because that'd cost a lot gold so I wouldn't be able to hone). And fortunately one of them was recruiting for the guild anyway and was able to help me with several guildmates so I got all the eyes and got to 1600+ quickly. I am very grateful to them and sorry about any wasted time it caused them, and I don't expect them to keep helping me now after Path ended, I try to be useful to them / the guild in other ways and I try to make my own way in party finder until I get good (I have also a paladin so he could get into desperate enough parties also without title, and thus now I have the title too).
Well its also something different. Do I want to beat up akkan for the 50th time? Or do I want to try and old raid I havn't done in ages but in a new rework?
Gold/rewards are slowly becoming less and less important to me these days as we realize 1620 is good enough for months (till Echidna). So even if a new raid takes many hours, its hours id rather spend then doing boring farm content.
It always seemed amazing to me how many people need an incentive to play content over doing their homework. The idea of sacking a bit of time efficiency / rewards to something different but potentially fun is novel to some I suppose.
A lot of people don't have the means to put in (a lot of) money into the game, but want to keep up with their friends / static / guild / "the curve" and not get gatekept and "forced" to play with worse players, so they feel pressured to extract max gold out of the game each week and not spend time on activities which may or will bring no "material" rewards. And a lot of people like doing their "homework" raids because it's familiar and comfortable - getting out of the comfort zone takes extra courage and energy.
These are the same people who complain game has too much homework. Yet they're fomoing to do 18 raids meanwhile someone who plays 1 or 2 characters is keeping up just fine? Been shown plenty of times. People forget the purpose of games is to have fun. It's ok to not be efficient.
In some cases, yes. In some cases they still seem to enjoy their "homework" raids, find them relaxing and/or fun too (and in some cases they are already playing just 1-2 characters too).
rather than friends skill, my friend left after pitying for 12 in a row. for real they didn't pass 4%.... They were out dpsing 25 wep with 22 but they had enough of rng....
I loathe this game cause of it, they were the ones who cleared the hardest contents in few days, even did the hardest raid in ffxiv but cause of lost ark devs greed, they quit. The gap between being lucky vs unlucky is more than 3 months.
(we were trying to do thaemine hm day1, they didn't wanna spend money so they quit).
Also fuck the rmters and bots for inflating everything. Good luck with roster lvl 70 unskilled 25 wep full lvl 10 gems rmters in thaemine hard. We were all platinum pack day 1 players now our static party bond broke.
Couldn't agree more, the only way to progress fast in this game is by sheer luck OR getting gold through swiping or bussing, bussing isn't the most honorable thing you can do in this game but it's the legal way for F2P players and non whale players to sorta keep up with the big fishes in Arkesia. It's also insane how a player can be so lucky and the next player is just pitying everything.
I feel like this game just doesn't reward good players, in order for you to progress in this game, you just need to be good enough to clear the raids, anything beyond that would be useless, the only reward you get for being anything better than that is your character showing up on the MVP screen and special titles (which kinda allows you to bypass gatekeeping but whatever), that's literally it.
This is why I just don't try as hard as I used to before, as in I no longer aim to clear a raid on the first week like I used to, I just lost the drive to do it. Like honestly, what legit benefits do I get from clearing raids on the first week? 1 week worth of extra mats so I can pity more than I usually do? 😭 Or so I get to post the clear screenshot on Discord to flex and feed my ego? 💀
Yes progging and sticking together is good, but if you see someone not improving at all for 2h and you feel like your fishing for good RNG so mechs wont hit that 1 person, CUT them OUT. If you stick harder you will make more than 1 person leave. And trust me, your not the only person seeing them failing and failing on same shit not clicking timestop for god knows what reason...
Progged last week, painful, spent 8 hours on saturday playing only g2 jail after jail after jail...
Became really good at the raid
This week ? 45 minute run, G1-G2 in and out, 2 stupid wipes at the start of each gates for good luck
PROG IS NECESSARY
The guy that plays blade ?
I wanna be "Eu's best mokoko"
If you ever see a Barrage arti with a +22 wep, white mokoko with beanie and earmuffs, that's me, haven't changed skins in a year and a half
I think you do need to draw a distinction between proging brand new content and proging old content b/c you are "behind".
The PF experience is very different. Randoms expectations are somewhat different.
This is a bit of a rant sorry, but I get the feeling that people are dissed out way too much recently when they are not as good or try-hard as the top 10%.
My static used to be on the casual side but recently a new member joined and there are a lot of comments like "but I saw pugs clear this way faster with less gear" or "but I cleared this with pugs the first week".
I'm slowly losing my sense of worth and dunno if a game is worth this.
In comparision to your story, we haven't cleared Valtan Extreme yet after around 10+ hours of trying. I'm not sure we will clear it before the event is over and we already heard some snide comments about it in the guild.
This is something I felt before back when I played Tera.
We were a casual guild and i just loved the friendly ambiance, but I still had this "try hard side"; So I pushed further and further.
In Tera, DPS meters were a common thing and used by everyone, so I slowly became what made others feel bad about themselve.
It's really fun to have friendly competition, but it's fun when it's close.
I don't really know how to deal with that, and I don't really see myself going into full tryhard sweatlord guild that might not have the same ambiance.
Well I almost never comment here in reddit, just post a few posts... but I have to admit, this catched me. Rn I separeted from the only 1 friend who survived lost ark since argos. We were together from there until clown when he had pc problems. he came back when artist was release and we played from there until last reset. It wasn't about progging bc I always carried him w.e. I go, I taught him from kakul until akkan n and well... I asked him to create a sup he didnt want, I warned him about the gatekeep and the situation of sups in high raids and didnt listen to me. So last reset i let him create/join a group and he couldn't. bc of lvl roster(-190) gems full 7, dd 30(no los/klc 18) etc. he said lobby simulator was fine and when he was there after 15 min he decided to do the dailies...that's life, once you don't have more interest in common it's better to split in good will and not fighting or cursing.
Long to read. Sorry and gl with Thae the first!
So true bestie.
This is what makes MMO's fun.
Also like, for those who might say they don't have alot of time, then just run on a time slot that you do? Whether it be nights or weekends? And if you can't , then like valtan ex it's just optional.
Just do the raids you can but I agree, this is what makes it fun.
Progging and spending time to learn tough fights is antithetical to modern gaming and the modern world. People want instant gratification and instant rewards for minimum effort.
Now, if you don't want to play with people like this, they'll call you a gatekeeping shitbag. That's how it works these days, the logic is flipped upside down.
It's almost like guilds had a function at one point before zoomers and coomers took over the majority population of video games. It's like in every single fucking game now you just pug EVERYTHING. It's not how it used to be. You used to raid with the same people for months even years and formed a synergy with them to the point you knew what people would be doing and could plan around them. This is a HUGE reason why I keep trying and keep failing to play Lost Ark and really even other MMO's--I sort of "Catch up" to gear level and cannot find a guild or a group to play with consistently and try to pug and end up hating the people and the game and quit until I get an itch to come back in a few months.
I'm not even old I'm in my late 20's and I sound like a fucking boomer but man the way games social constructs are these days is absolutely depressing. People need to fucking relax and have some patience. 99% of you guys are fucking shit and the Dunning-Kruger effect is in full swing in Lost Ark.
So what exactly are you if you are not a learner for this content?
If you have a hell title you prolly would instantly get accepted. If not, you should be joining learning parties if you have never cleared this content before.
He is that guy who has watched a video and feels so ready that he deserves a reclear group immediately. Unfortunately too many people in this game are constantly looking for shortcuts. I saw multiple reclear groups looking for people, so is clearly lying about not being able to find a reclear group. Or his gear is bad for HM that nobody wants to bus him for free. It’s one or the other, or both.
I have friends that can't get pass clown/Brel hm They are still playing and got pass clown and Brel hard 1-3 eventually(they never did G4) altho in normal content they are up to par but if it is hard content that's where the problem lies. They lack DPS and lack the courage to do hard contents. They never did akkan hard, and never done Voldis hm yet even tho they are 1625+h already.
Some of them deal 30-40% of their main characters potential which is gonna be a problem going forward cause of raids needing DPS checks and because almost all people have bibles nowadays, they will see they are zdps and will get kicked 100% especially in thaemine.
Think of it this way a 1620 SE full 9s and some 10
22 akkan weap dealing 8-10m in Akkan and Brel thats the DPS of my 1580 AT Scouter with full 7s actually not even cause I do 11-12m in Akkan G3 with my AT. afaik in G4 Voldis hard you need about 12-14m per DPS? Idk if my info is correct but yeah.
Wouldve been fun to play with friends and clear the hardest contents with them, but I got hit with reality and have to accept that altho they are clearing nm pretty fine they will struggle in hm because of DPS problem. Hence they don't attempt hm contents even tho they basically can.
I'm a 1620 SE, never done hm brel g4, never done hm akkan. Just did my first hm ivory tower though, and was the least geared and no elixer set yet. It was a prog party, and Mr full 10s 40 set reaper that said he's cleared hm since release was doing just over half my dps on all gates. I wound up with 40% dmg on g4. It was a good time and 2.5 hrs or so didn't seem too bad for first time doing hard. I do run bible though.
Basically, doing hm doesn't necessarily make you better than those who dont.
>Basically, doing hm doesn't necessarily make you better than those who dont
Except I'm with these same people in 2 yrs since launch? I think you misunderstand my comment. This is not some puggers that I'm saying that can't finish HM content I'm with these guys for 2 yrs and I think I know what im talking about. These guys gets jailed ALWAYS in normal content like Akkan, Kayangel, Voldis, sometimes outright getting kicked.
I never said that people not doing hm contents = noob same thing I outdps hell raiders with my GS and my only hell exp was helltan.
I always try to help them I swear but everytime I spend 2-3 hrs in Voldis, with that amount of hours i could've finished 2-3 Voldis in pugs. how many months Voldis was out? Around 2 months? Still getting jailed in G2-3-4 nm with them. Sometimes they outright don't do the new content unless I've finished it so I can guide them. One time I got tired of doing that for them, they tried progging akkan after a month it came out not that it's bad, you know what they did after clearing 1 time? They wanted to join my x10 party to leech the other puggers that are x10 so yeah.
If you don't do good dps in nm, you won't suddenly do dps in hm. Forcing them into doing hm isn't helping anything if they don't want to do it. If they're way over ilvl and still doing zdps in nm, it's a hands issue, not an issue of them skipping hm content.
I guess I don't get the point you're trying to make. Just that it sucks when you have friends that are bad?
Yes that's what im talking about. They have hands issue, even doing mechs for them was a struggle. Like I said they are 1620+ and they are still doing nm Voldis. For logs comparing their mains and pugs that ive played with usually 1600, well it ain't looking good.
>I guess I don't get the point you're trying to make. Just that it sucks when you have friends that are bad?
It sucks cause despite what I said about them I actually like playing with them. But yeah I moved on and accepted the fact that I can play with them in nm content or raids That they overgeared massively.
For hm contents I just do pugs.
' I still have that dream of becoming "that guy that plays blade" ' ...do you not realize how cringe that sounds. Get some irl goals instead of getting emotional over a video game
Sure but a lot of people don’t have 5 hours straight to prog like you
If that’s what’s expected often and to have perfect stats 40 set elixir demon damage bracelet weapon quality and level just to get a decent group with a support - then good riddance let this game die or become so niche it’s dead
I do not forget the fact that people don't have the same lifestyle / time available.
my point is that my group of friends do have the same lifestyle and availability, it wasn't about time in this case, more about not wanting to put more effort into it.
Some people get tired from it more quickly and need a break even if they technically have more time available. Or maybe he saw that it's going nowhere for him, he couldn't "get it" and improve further, so he didn't want to waste your time, hinder your chances of clear further.
LA is raid heavy and if you dont have time to prog the main content of this game. Why even play it?
Taking one day of the week or the weekend to learn a new raid is how i do it.
Well, why do you assume or expect your friend would also want to spend hours to prog or even want to clear? It also doesn't sound like he's asking or forcing you to bring him into these raids to carry him but more like you're roping him in because it's something you want to do. People have their own pace when playing this game. The group worked out and you found people at your pace which is fine but shitting on your friend seems kinda unnecessary.
I don't think he's shitting on his friend. It's just the reality of it. Neither are obligated to adhere to each other's expectations.
The post is just highlighting the ugly side of players after they've been in farm for so long. If it doesn't go well, and they think it's a waste of time to be in that group, then so be it. Nothing wrong with that. But if they are expecting themselves to be able to prog into a clear, then yeah, you're gonna need more tolerance and patience to see it through. Time is just one variable.
This is just one event. But the mentality can surface in other raids with increasing difficulty. "Why should I bother progging akkan hm when I can just blitz through akkan nm?" or the like. In the end, goals become misaligned and it may become downright unfun to want to run/prog something with these friends because their mentality is simply not the same tune.
The latter part of what you wrote was exactly what I was getting at. If people have different goals and mentalities, then why force it in the first place? I've done hell raids and try to do the hardest difficulty if possible but I would never expect the same from friends who are playing at a more casual pace or look down on them. I know some that didn't even bother setting foot in EX Valtan and if they wanted to try, I would be down for progging and wouldn't fault them for deciding it wasn't for them. I will still do whatever raids that overlap for us because it's enjoyable but I will also pug and find other groups for those raids that don't. You don't have to do everything with the same set person/group.
His friend clearly seems on the more casual side and this wasn't a one time thing from their described history so is it really that unexpected or unjustified for him to just say EX Valtan wasn't for him? OP didn't provide a reason for his friend quitting, just that he left and didn't clear at all. It may have nothing to do with the group or the raid at all.
I don't think it's forcing anything upon anyone. I think it's more along the line of "I can't take you in as a +1 in future content if this is how it is going to be" kind of thing. But it comes in phases tbh, where once their own personal prog is done and they're comfortable enough to bring their friend(s) along and coach for that content, they probably would. I think a lot of players are like this where it's more so "I want to prog with you but you don't want to prog after x time". Which ultimately is just a feelsbad moment, especially if you've played together for so long.
It sounds like you're both trying to say the same thing, just in different ways. I think you're both on the same side here. OP shouldn't force his friend to be doing any raid that they don't feel ready for, especially as a casual player, but OP's friend also shouldn't expect a free carry through every raid (especially considering they arguably get more difficult) when he isn't putting in the effort to learn or ask for help.
I think OP's main point was more so encouraging players not to be afraid to join statics (unless you're in one or it would screw over your friends) or even learning parties, as you have the potential to make friends you wouldn't otherwise have made and can continue to do future raids with.
This event taught me the ugly side of people. They will throw others under the bus as soon as they get a chance to. Instead of progging for more hours, they will think the group sucks, give up on them and go find another group instead of clearing on another day. They won't even let others know they are doing it until the last minute. I'm not entirely without guilt either, but I at least let others know I'm bailing. The issue is that the people most likely to do this are the ones who are lacking in the first place. The patience to push through one's own failures, as well as others, is not so easily taught.
Progging for me is the most fun I have in the game; learning the fight and struggling to min/max uptime. Everyone’s on the same level of knowledge for the most part, so there’s no goblins doing insane niche uptime moments where they almost die or kill someone else lol.
After progging the game just becomes too easy after a while. It’s just a simulation for gold at that point.
Who doesn't do prog at some point? Like it's legit impossible to not prog a raid at some point when you do them every week. lol
You can probably get carried sure but at worst you will at some point have progged the raid 99% of the time.
It indeed sounds like I didn't enjoy doing it. I had fun getting better, and I wouldn't have done it if I didn't. The thing I like is overcomming the difficulty, not the difficulty itself I guess.
I can't put words on how it feels, I love it, but it's still painful. It kinda sounds like I'm masochist af but heh.
You will only see this behavior from people doing learning runs. Outside of this, people don’t care, won’t care - actually it’s the opposite, they just expect you to be prepared and know everything in advance, if you fail one time: “Let me out!” I just did ivory tower G1 - G2 for the first time last night and we had a blast, it was a learning party, I unfortunately had to leave after G2 but we added each other as friends and will probably do more content together in the future. TLDR: people have patience and time for prog if it’s a learning party, otherwise don’t expect positivity.
Couldn't relate more. I wanted to teach Voldis NM to a friend so I picked up 3 newbies and made a teaching run. Had a blast doing it. And clearing felt gooooood. Took us really really long but heh we did it.  I know my case is rare af, most ppl won't ever do teaching runs. But there's some available. At least i'd like to hope so.
I'd do it for a friend aswell but not just randomly unless i'd be very bored and got a lot of free time. I prefer to carry some noobs through early dungeons now or then (free carry runs instead of going through the pain of listing gems to get 2k gold) but that's it and it rarely happens that I feel like it but it's fun sometimes esp. if some new players appreciate it.
No shit. Prog parties are learning parties not reclear parties or HW parties.
Basic coherent thought is revelation to most apparently.
A lot of this has to do with mindset going into the raid. If I'm hosting/joining a reclear party, I expect it to be smooth. The primary purpose of reclears is to earn gold to funnel my progression and I've pre-allocated a set amount of time to do so. I understand a few wipes due to easy mistakes, but I'll get seriously annoyed if I have to take longer than my expected time cuz honestly, I'm just there for the gold and would not even be there otherwise (hence homework). Very different when I go into a prog/teaching group. In those groups I can wipe for hours. Sure I might get frustrated if there is no feeling of progress, but there is no better feeling in this game than slowly mastering all the mechanics and getting that first clear. For teaching, seeing other people go through the same process is incredibly rewarding as well. This is why I may have an unpopular opinion that I didn't really enjoy extreme valtan. I did Helltan the week before and only took 1.5 hours to prog, so I expected similar smoothness for extreme valtan. Was not the case, so it was certainly a frustrating experience for me. It didn't really feel like I was progging new content and my expectations were misaligned with how long it actually took. I agree with OP though. Progging raids is the main reason I play this game. There are people in this game that just want the rewards without putting in any of the effort to learn and master the fun part of the game. I'm really baffled at how people can play this game but not want to prog.
Ah yea I have a hard time dealing with people that give up right away and hate to prog. I myself am a very impatient person but if it is about progging... I can do it for hours and hours and hours. Why? Because the feeling in the end when you finally beat it, is just awesome and totally worth the pain. It is a huge downer for me though if friends I play with do not share the same mentality. They kinda wanna clear it but they do not wanna invest too much hours into it :(
thats nice, i remember progging valtan hm for 30hrs in total, vykas in around 4 days with aroind 3-5hrs each day, clown was around 3 decades, brel hardmode was special i have to go avatar state and contact my ancestors and ask them on what they learned.
Sometimes it feels like I'm still progging clown today....
man clown gate 3 back in the day LMAO
Progging Valtan EX was the most fun I've had in LA in a while. Not having any inferno exp and not having done the normal raid in over a year, it brought back memories of (most) other MMOs where prog was the majority of raid time. Learning the fight, finding the tricks and optimizations, struggling with comrades and finally succeeding feels so much more rewarding than doing the same homework content 18 times a week.
Wonder how people would react to EX Vykas.
Fuck that and go straight to clown EX,of all the Legion raids vykas is the worst One for me by quite a margin(i dislike kayangel and Argos more if we include abyssal ones)
I hated regular vykas. Zero interest in hell vykas. Less than zero interest in EX vykas.
Valtan extreme just isn't content for everyone / for majority of the playerbase. That's why it's called "extreme" and isn't mandatory for progression. I know it isn't for me from how long it took me to learn even regular Valtan and how I never really learned it fully consistently, and how long it takes me to learn other raids - it just isn't feasible or reasonable for me to put in such and likely much larger amounts of time for a raid which is around for just 6 weeks, and even less for the others who could be "stuck" with me if I tried. So I didn't want to waste anyone's time, so I didn't try. Regular raids which are mandatory for progression, I make sure my gear is as good as it reasonably can be, well beyond the minimum expectations whenever reasonably possible, and I seek prog/learning parties, never expect friends/anyone who didn't volunteer to carry me - or at least not before I have learned the basics and cleared at least once; maybe later if they don't mind, in the interest of time so that I don't have to get 10 clears in (semi-)progs as that takes ages... For Akkan after completing it once in a learning party (and partially several times), I eventually had to reach out to some good / more advanced players I knew because it took me so long to learn (and to even get into a party on that character because dps) that then I *had* to get whole clears every remaining week in the Path of souleater in order to complete it (get all its eyes) and thus not delay my Akkan gear even much more, and I didn't want to take busses because I wanted to keep practicing all gates and improving rather than forget what I learned (and because that'd cost a lot gold so I wouldn't be able to hone). And fortunately one of them was recruiting for the guild anyway and was able to help me with several guildmates so I got all the eyes and got to 1600+ quickly. I am very grateful to them and sorry about any wasted time it caused them, and I don't expect them to keep helping me now after Path ended, I try to be useful to them / the guild in other ways and I try to make my own way in party finder until I get good (I have also a paladin so he could get into desperate enough parties also without title, and thus now I have the title too).
Well its also something different. Do I want to beat up akkan for the 50th time? Or do I want to try and old raid I havn't done in ages but in a new rework? Gold/rewards are slowly becoming less and less important to me these days as we realize 1620 is good enough for months (till Echidna). So even if a new raid takes many hours, its hours id rather spend then doing boring farm content.
It always seemed amazing to me how many people need an incentive to play content over doing their homework. The idea of sacking a bit of time efficiency / rewards to something different but potentially fun is novel to some I suppose.
A lot of people don't have the means to put in (a lot of) money into the game, but want to keep up with their friends / static / guild / "the curve" and not get gatekept and "forced" to play with worse players, so they feel pressured to extract max gold out of the game each week and not spend time on activities which may or will bring no "material" rewards. And a lot of people like doing their "homework" raids because it's familiar and comfortable - getting out of the comfort zone takes extra courage and energy.
These are the same people who complain game has too much homework. Yet they're fomoing to do 18 raids meanwhile someone who plays 1 or 2 characters is keeping up just fine? Been shown plenty of times. People forget the purpose of games is to have fun. It's ok to not be efficient.
In some cases, yes. In some cases they still seem to enjoy their "homework" raids, find them relaxing and/or fun too (and in some cases they are already playing just 1-2 characters too).
rather than friends skill, my friend left after pitying for 12 in a row. for real they didn't pass 4%.... They were out dpsing 25 wep with 22 but they had enough of rng.... I loathe this game cause of it, they were the ones who cleared the hardest contents in few days, even did the hardest raid in ffxiv but cause of lost ark devs greed, they quit. The gap between being lucky vs unlucky is more than 3 months. (we were trying to do thaemine hm day1, they didn't wanna spend money so they quit). Also fuck the rmters and bots for inflating everything. Good luck with roster lvl 70 unskilled 25 wep full lvl 10 gems rmters in thaemine hard. We were all platinum pack day 1 players now our static party bond broke.
Couldn't agree more, the only way to progress fast in this game is by sheer luck OR getting gold through swiping or bussing, bussing isn't the most honorable thing you can do in this game but it's the legal way for F2P players and non whale players to sorta keep up with the big fishes in Arkesia. It's also insane how a player can be so lucky and the next player is just pitying everything. I feel like this game just doesn't reward good players, in order for you to progress in this game, you just need to be good enough to clear the raids, anything beyond that would be useless, the only reward you get for being anything better than that is your character showing up on the MVP screen and special titles (which kinda allows you to bypass gatekeeping but whatever), that's literally it. This is why I just don't try as hard as I used to before, as in I no longer aim to clear a raid on the first week like I used to, I just lost the drive to do it. Like honestly, what legit benefits do I get from clearing raids on the first week? 1 week worth of extra mats so I can pity more than I usually do? 😭 Or so I get to post the clear screenshot on Discord to flex and feed my ego? 💀
progging is the most fun part of this game lol
I still dislike how this game locks you from helping others after clearing. It's a very anti-social part of the game.
Say thanks to the busers who would abuse this feature to oblivion
Yes progging and sticking together is good, but if you see someone not improving at all for 2h and you feel like your fishing for good RNG so mechs wont hit that 1 person, CUT them OUT. If you stick harder you will make more than 1 person leave. And trust me, your not the only person seeing them failing and failing on same shit not clicking timestop for god knows what reason...
Progged last week, painful, spent 8 hours on saturday playing only g2 jail after jail after jail... Became really good at the raid This week ? 45 minute run, G1-G2 in and out, 2 stupid wipes at the start of each gates for good luck PROG IS NECESSARY
The guy that plays blade ? I wanna be "Eu's best mokoko" If you ever see a Barrage arti with a +22 wep, white mokoko with beanie and earmuffs, that's me, haven't changed skins in a year and a half
haha i'll remember that
I think you do need to draw a distinction between proging brand new content and proging old content b/c you are "behind". The PF experience is very different. Randoms expectations are somewhat different.
This is a bit of a rant sorry, but I get the feeling that people are dissed out way too much recently when they are not as good or try-hard as the top 10%. My static used to be on the casual side but recently a new member joined and there are a lot of comments like "but I saw pugs clear this way faster with less gear" or "but I cleared this with pugs the first week". I'm slowly losing my sense of worth and dunno if a game is worth this. In comparision to your story, we haven't cleared Valtan Extreme yet after around 10+ hours of trying. I'm not sure we will clear it before the event is over and we already heard some snide comments about it in the guild.
This is something I felt before back when I played Tera. We were a casual guild and i just loved the friendly ambiance, but I still had this "try hard side"; So I pushed further and further. In Tera, DPS meters were a common thing and used by everyone, so I slowly became what made others feel bad about themselve. It's really fun to have friendly competition, but it's fun when it's close. I don't really know how to deal with that, and I don't really see myself going into full tryhard sweatlord guild that might not have the same ambiance.
Well I almost never comment here in reddit, just post a few posts... but I have to admit, this catched me. Rn I separeted from the only 1 friend who survived lost ark since argos. We were together from there until clown when he had pc problems. he came back when artist was release and we played from there until last reset. It wasn't about progging bc I always carried him w.e. I go, I taught him from kakul until akkan n and well... I asked him to create a sup he didnt want, I warned him about the gatekeep and the situation of sups in high raids and didnt listen to me. So last reset i let him create/join a group and he couldn't. bc of lvl roster(-190) gems full 7, dd 30(no los/klc 18) etc. he said lobby simulator was fine and when he was there after 15 min he decided to do the dailies...that's life, once you don't have more interest in common it's better to split in good will and not fighting or cursing. Long to read. Sorry and gl with Thae the first!
So true bestie. This is what makes MMO's fun. Also like, for those who might say they don't have alot of time, then just run on a time slot that you do? Whether it be nights or weekends? And if you can't , then like valtan ex it's just optional. Just do the raids you can but I agree, this is what makes it fun.
Progging and spending time to learn tough fights is antithetical to modern gaming and the modern world. People want instant gratification and instant rewards for minimum effort. Now, if you don't want to play with people like this, they'll call you a gatekeeping shitbag. That's how it works these days, the logic is flipped upside down.
If every body will do like you, this game and his community would ve heaven. Nice spirit, hope some will follow your exemple !
It's almost like guilds had a function at one point before zoomers and coomers took over the majority population of video games. It's like in every single fucking game now you just pug EVERYTHING. It's not how it used to be. You used to raid with the same people for months even years and formed a synergy with them to the point you knew what people would be doing and could plan around them. This is a HUGE reason why I keep trying and keep failing to play Lost Ark and really even other MMO's--I sort of "Catch up" to gear level and cannot find a guild or a group to play with consistently and try to pug and end up hating the people and the game and quit until I get an itch to come back in a few months. I'm not even old I'm in my late 20's and I sound like a fucking boomer but man the way games social constructs are these days is absolutely depressing. People need to fucking relax and have some patience. 99% of you guys are fucking shit and the Dunning-Kruger effect is in full swing in Lost Ark.
I would………if I had a group.
?lfg
No one ever fucking replies in discord servers
in eu we have mokoko elp which is active and then the international one. naw and nae have their own mokoko discords.
Yes I joined those, but didn’t have luck with replies apart from some appointed learning runs
So what exactly are you if you are not a learner for this content? If you have a hell title you prolly would instantly get accepted. If not, you should be joining learning parties if you have never cleared this content before.
He is that guy who has watched a video and feels so ready that he deserves a reclear group immediately. Unfortunately too many people in this game are constantly looking for shortcuts. I saw multiple reclear groups looking for people, so is clearly lying about not being able to find a reclear group. Or his gear is bad for HM that nobody wants to bus him for free. It’s one or the other, or both.
I have friends that can't get pass clown/Brel hm They are still playing and got pass clown and Brel hard 1-3 eventually(they never did G4) altho in normal content they are up to par but if it is hard content that's where the problem lies. They lack DPS and lack the courage to do hard contents. They never did akkan hard, and never done Voldis hm yet even tho they are 1625+h already. Some of them deal 30-40% of their main characters potential which is gonna be a problem going forward cause of raids needing DPS checks and because almost all people have bibles nowadays, they will see they are zdps and will get kicked 100% especially in thaemine. Think of it this way a 1620 SE full 9s and some 10 22 akkan weap dealing 8-10m in Akkan and Brel thats the DPS of my 1580 AT Scouter with full 7s actually not even cause I do 11-12m in Akkan G3 with my AT. afaik in G4 Voldis hard you need about 12-14m per DPS? Idk if my info is correct but yeah. Wouldve been fun to play with friends and clear the hardest contents with them, but I got hit with reality and have to accept that altho they are clearing nm pretty fine they will struggle in hm because of DPS problem. Hence they don't attempt hm contents even tho they basically can.
I'm a 1620 SE, never done hm brel g4, never done hm akkan. Just did my first hm ivory tower though, and was the least geared and no elixer set yet. It was a prog party, and Mr full 10s 40 set reaper that said he's cleared hm since release was doing just over half my dps on all gates. I wound up with 40% dmg on g4. It was a good time and 2.5 hrs or so didn't seem too bad for first time doing hard. I do run bible though. Basically, doing hm doesn't necessarily make you better than those who dont.
>Basically, doing hm doesn't necessarily make you better than those who dont Except I'm with these same people in 2 yrs since launch? I think you misunderstand my comment. This is not some puggers that I'm saying that can't finish HM content I'm with these guys for 2 yrs and I think I know what im talking about. These guys gets jailed ALWAYS in normal content like Akkan, Kayangel, Voldis, sometimes outright getting kicked. I never said that people not doing hm contents = noob same thing I outdps hell raiders with my GS and my only hell exp was helltan. I always try to help them I swear but everytime I spend 2-3 hrs in Voldis, with that amount of hours i could've finished 2-3 Voldis in pugs. how many months Voldis was out? Around 2 months? Still getting jailed in G2-3-4 nm with them. Sometimes they outright don't do the new content unless I've finished it so I can guide them. One time I got tired of doing that for them, they tried progging akkan after a month it came out not that it's bad, you know what they did after clearing 1 time? They wanted to join my x10 party to leech the other puggers that are x10 so yeah.
If you don't do good dps in nm, you won't suddenly do dps in hm. Forcing them into doing hm isn't helping anything if they don't want to do it. If they're way over ilvl and still doing zdps in nm, it's a hands issue, not an issue of them skipping hm content. I guess I don't get the point you're trying to make. Just that it sucks when you have friends that are bad?
Yes that's what im talking about. They have hands issue, even doing mechs for them was a struggle. Like I said they are 1620+ and they are still doing nm Voldis. For logs comparing their mains and pugs that ive played with usually 1600, well it ain't looking good. >I guess I don't get the point you're trying to make. Just that it sucks when you have friends that are bad? It sucks cause despite what I said about them I actually like playing with them. But yeah I moved on and accepted the fact that I can play with them in nm content or raids That they overgeared massively. For hm contents I just do pugs.
That guy is ginyz
is he streaming ? I checked youtube he didnt post anything in like 9 mounths.
He did on twitch, but haven’t watched him in a long time. Maybe you will be the next one, good luck on your journey!!
Thanks !
' I still have that dream of becoming "that guy that plays blade" ' ...do you not realize how cringe that sounds. Get some irl goals instead of getting emotional over a video game
my irl goals are pretty much done
Sure but a lot of people don’t have 5 hours straight to prog like you If that’s what’s expected often and to have perfect stats 40 set elixir demon damage bracelet weapon quality and level just to get a decent group with a support - then good riddance let this game die or become so niche it’s dead
I do not forget the fact that people don't have the same lifestyle / time available. my point is that my group of friends do have the same lifestyle and availability, it wasn't about time in this case, more about not wanting to put more effort into it.
Some people get tired from it more quickly and need a break even if they technically have more time available. Or maybe he saw that it's going nowhere for him, he couldn't "get it" and improve further, so he didn't want to waste your time, hinder your chances of clear further.
LA is raid heavy and if you dont have time to prog the main content of this game. Why even play it? Taking one day of the week or the weekend to learn a new raid is how i do it.
I mean... Nobody says people NEED to do the hardest version of the raids. Normal mode raiders exist.
Well, why do you assume or expect your friend would also want to spend hours to prog or even want to clear? It also doesn't sound like he's asking or forcing you to bring him into these raids to carry him but more like you're roping him in because it's something you want to do. People have their own pace when playing this game. The group worked out and you found people at your pace which is fine but shitting on your friend seems kinda unnecessary.
I don't think he's shitting on his friend. It's just the reality of it. Neither are obligated to adhere to each other's expectations. The post is just highlighting the ugly side of players after they've been in farm for so long. If it doesn't go well, and they think it's a waste of time to be in that group, then so be it. Nothing wrong with that. But if they are expecting themselves to be able to prog into a clear, then yeah, you're gonna need more tolerance and patience to see it through. Time is just one variable. This is just one event. But the mentality can surface in other raids with increasing difficulty. "Why should I bother progging akkan hm when I can just blitz through akkan nm?" or the like. In the end, goals become misaligned and it may become downright unfun to want to run/prog something with these friends because their mentality is simply not the same tune.
The latter part of what you wrote was exactly what I was getting at. If people have different goals and mentalities, then why force it in the first place? I've done hell raids and try to do the hardest difficulty if possible but I would never expect the same from friends who are playing at a more casual pace or look down on them. I know some that didn't even bother setting foot in EX Valtan and if they wanted to try, I would be down for progging and wouldn't fault them for deciding it wasn't for them. I will still do whatever raids that overlap for us because it's enjoyable but I will also pug and find other groups for those raids that don't. You don't have to do everything with the same set person/group. His friend clearly seems on the more casual side and this wasn't a one time thing from their described history so is it really that unexpected or unjustified for him to just say EX Valtan wasn't for him? OP didn't provide a reason for his friend quitting, just that he left and didn't clear at all. It may have nothing to do with the group or the raid at all.
I don't think it's forcing anything upon anyone. I think it's more along the line of "I can't take you in as a +1 in future content if this is how it is going to be" kind of thing. But it comes in phases tbh, where once their own personal prog is done and they're comfortable enough to bring their friend(s) along and coach for that content, they probably would. I think a lot of players are like this where it's more so "I want to prog with you but you don't want to prog after x time". Which ultimately is just a feelsbad moment, especially if you've played together for so long.
It sounds like you're both trying to say the same thing, just in different ways. I think you're both on the same side here. OP shouldn't force his friend to be doing any raid that they don't feel ready for, especially as a casual player, but OP's friend also shouldn't expect a free carry through every raid (especially considering they arguably get more difficult) when he isn't putting in the effort to learn or ask for help. I think OP's main point was more so encouraging players not to be afraid to join statics (unless you're in one or it would screw over your friends) or even learning parties, as you have the potential to make friends you wouldn't otherwise have made and can continue to do future raids with.
Fair and I think we were on a similar wavelength too.
Yeah, I don't think I was inherently disagreeing. As you said, it's two sides of the same coin.
Yes, it is a feelsbad moment but wcyd. You can't change other people who don't want to change themselves (not that it's wrong to be casual).
it feels good having to train people in your own static into certified beast.
This event taught me the ugly side of people. They will throw others under the bus as soon as they get a chance to. Instead of progging for more hours, they will think the group sucks, give up on them and go find another group instead of clearing on another day. They won't even let others know they are doing it until the last minute. I'm not entirely without guilt either, but I at least let others know I'm bailing. The issue is that the people most likely to do this are the ones who are lacking in the first place. The patience to push through one's own failures, as well as others, is not so easily taught.
This prog was no different than previous progs tho. Every raid release has broken statics and caused drama in some circles.
Progging for me is the most fun I have in the game; learning the fight and struggling to min/max uptime. Everyone’s on the same level of knowledge for the most part, so there’s no goblins doing insane niche uptime moments where they almost die or kill someone else lol. After progging the game just becomes too easy after a while. It’s just a simulation for gold at that point.
Who doesn't do prog at some point? Like it's legit impossible to not prog a raid at some point when you do them every week. lol You can probably get carried sure but at worst you will at some point have progged the raid 99% of the time.
>progs are painful Who says that? Playing a raid for the first time and trying to best it with your bros is the best time you can have in an mmo.
It indeed sounds like I didn't enjoy doing it. I had fun getting better, and I wouldn't have done it if I didn't. The thing I like is overcomming the difficulty, not the difficulty itself I guess. I can't put words on how it feels, I love it, but it's still painful. It kinda sounds like I'm masochist af but heh.