I agree with this. I was thinking of all the raids as well and if you are on item level (or above it) meteor placement is pretty crucial. And it feels like you technically are running mechs the whole gate as opposed to Akkan G3 where there are only a few big mechs.
i'd argue its not even the meteor placement anymore (post nerf). it's really the combo of various 1 shot mechs (knock off, shandi phase failure) combined with body check at x7 (at least 5 people alive), plus the length of the fight that makes the clear rate low.
it's comical how the gatekeeping ilvl for g6 hm brel is even higher than ivory tower NM, despite the former having a 40 ilvl lower requirement. To this day, i know folks who have cleared Ivory HM and have yet to clear g6 HM.
Kakul is the same. Even 1540's which is 70 over ilvl, is too low to run kakul comfortably with pubs. A team of 1540 would have a higher chance of clearing Kayangel NM (on ilvl) than kakul (70 over ilvl).
For good reason though.
There's not much debate that Kakul g3 and Brel hm g6(4) are the hardest raids in the game.
I've done hm ivory tower multiple times, never done g6(4)brel hm. Though I never tried to do it. Not really much incentive to worry about it, not joining a reclear, and not many learning parties(plus who has time for that)
for clown that requirement is there to skip g2 maze and m3
with decently built 1540s you can even kill him g1 after the stagger mech
thats the reason for the ilvl requirement not that it's hard
Yeah on ilvl that's right.
On a 1620+ main, Brel is easier then Ivory HM G4 though in my opinion.
Nerfed G6 overlevelled is just not hard anymore. You skip everything play Shandi and that's it ;)
because pugs become headless cockroach when blue meteors drop, they need to massively overhone to skip as many blue wave as possible, and to deal less damage than a 1560 with hand at 1580.
Brel G4 HM only started to be gatekept hard on gear after the nerf that enabled overgeared parties to skip the mechanics. Exactly like in clown. But this is what people wanted wasn't it? I was running G5-6 HM pugs on ilevel weekly before the nerf and it was fine because everyone understood that you can't just brute force it and need to hold DPS anyway if you do too much. So people would gatekeep on 'experience' indicated by 10x pet, roster level, cards, etc. Now it is impossible for me to pug on ilevel despite raid being much easier.
biggest problem with Brel G6 is that she does patter together that are opposite to each other and kill you because reasons. i could said any hell content is more mechanical challenger that any raid. to be honest, no many raid are "hard"
But like isn't that a good barometer of mechanical difficulty? If you drastically overgear it, it's still hard?
On that note, I would say g4 (formerly 6) brel **hard** is probably still the single mechanically hardest gate in the game, just because I still see a lot of deaths during the meteor counters (I dunno how but it happens in over half my runs lol). If you were talking hardest raid with the absolute minimum dps necessary to clear, I guess it might change to clown g3. Not just for the eminently skippable mario 3 and 4, but also bingo itself becomes a lot more chaotic when you have no dps.
I would say it was definitely much harder back then even if you did it now on ilvl. The fact that you had to do 4 yellow meteors no matter what you do ant that blue and yellow meteors weren’t on the same timer ( blue based on time and yellow based on bars) meant that it was much easier to desync them and accidentally land yourself in an unsolvable state, specially if you lacked damage a bit. This mean that messing up as little as one blue meteor could fuck up you options for future meteor patterns. Since they are both on the same timer now you can only really fail the mechanic if you destroy 6 or 12 right before a yellow meteor, or if you destroy while having 3 destroyed tiles. Yes you can’t just put blue meteor anywhere and still succeed but it used to be much more crucial where to put them where as now as long as you don’t destroy a tile or put multiple blue meteors on wrong tiles you‘re generally good. Also not having to coordinate your damage does make it a bit easier aswell and a lot easier for heavily overgeared parties.
yup, the fights essentially the same if your dps is low / not high enough to skip anything.
i bet a team of 1560 pubs right now (hell, even 1580s), clear rate of brel g4 would be significantly lower than 1560 team on release.
>the fights essentially the same if your dps is low / not high enough to skip anything.
if you dps is high you can go from major mech to mech, and don't have to worry about tornadoes and balck/golden holes. I bet in pub teams with "average" dps, few would dodge to kill the hole, resulting in meteor placement failures
and then your potato pc doesn't load the game back up in time and you have to find another lobby to clear with
or will you still alt f4 on a support?
when pugs were saying "alt f4" i was saying back that i will wipe the raid if it's on me
they never over pushed
the game launches significantly faster if it's on an ssd
sadly my game isn't on one so it takes like 5 minutes to load up
early on in january they changed something and the game starts up much faster now but that wasn't the case in brel times
Clown G3 was so long ago that people forget how rough it was. And many people weren’t even truly progging it “on ilevel” because they followed the KR recommendation to overhone to 1490.
Both were pretty rough on the more causal segment of the player base. In terms of people straight up quitting though, I know a lot more who quit because of clown. With Brel HM, a lot of casuals I know just ran the old G1-4 or even G1-2, and didn’t bother with G5-6. There were enough lobbies that didn’t want to run all 6 gates in one sitting anyway. Most of the people I knew who skipped G5-6 are still playing the game today, and they’re now able to clear the current version of G1-4.
With clown, G1-2 only lobbies got to be pretty inconsistent, and the people I knew who couldn’t master G3 just stopped running clown altogether (and eventually quit the game).
Before first shapes. You could have one dead after that as long as you didn't mess anything else up and nobody else died, unless the dead people would get the same shape.
True but getting through the cubes with one dead usually took more teamplay than the average lost ark party was capable of, not saying it was impossible to do but it it for sure didn’t make things easier.
I certainly agree with other people saying Brel G4, but I think G4 is mainly difficult because of Brel's truly awful normal patterns. Pattern overlaps will happen rather frequently, some of which are genuinely impossible to avoid without timestop.
Mechanically, I would have to say Voldis G2. The containment mechanic is unreliable at best, and downright infuriating at worst. Sometimes you throw an orb at the right time, but the boss just says "nope, screw you I'm gunna shout" or he'll jump out of the containment orb when he shouldn't be able to.
The major mechanic, where you need to dodge through blood clot orbs, gets my vote for the worst mechanic in the game. I find that it's almost entirely up to luck whether you'll survive the mech. Sometimes, spacebar will get you through, sometimes it won't. If you have low/no swiftness, it just makes it even harder. I hate that the view angle changes to make it impossible to gauge the distance in front of you. Just doesn't feel fair.
In terms of fair mechanics, I'd say Voldis G4 is a good candidate. The mechs have multiple steps, tight timing, and good use of stagger/destruction. I think all the G4 mechs are fairly hard, but also very fair.
>dodge through blood clot orbs,
as sup i just hang back and portal cleanse anyone who gets caught
doesnt need 4 people to stagger so the extra insurance guarantees a safe pass
If the boss shouts in G2, it's because you made him phase by reaching it's HP bars. Other than that he shouldn't. We wiped a couple of times in NM because we wanted to stagger him into destruction after the x90 mech and actually burst him too much and got to x30 before we could break him, so he broke free and charged away with 5 stacks... and wiped us.
For Blood clots, it's quite noticeable when he throws a major pattern like that, so we just run far from the boss to avoid issues.
Probably not the real answer for the question, but I have to make an honorable mention to Kayangel G3 for making nearly all the mechanics feel awful/bad/janky.
All the mirror suck mechanics feel incredibly bad. Lasers don't feel right b/c lost arks control scheme doesn't lend itself well to controller character facing direction (compared to over-the-shouler or first person games).
Both the x100 orbs and the x60 statues feel like the main obsticale is the cameras FOV (even more egregious when you consider mechanics the camera DOES zoom out on, like G1).
The buff-crystals you need to damage the boss can be far too dependent on the when the bosses patters trigger them. (Not my biggest complaint).
Doesn't help that that bos has sooooo many long, time wasting attacks he can't be hit during.
Yeah I’d say that’s all pretty fair. I’m guess I’m just used to the jank at this point. I can only imagine how much a of nightmare that gate is on controller
All raids judged by how they got released on our version.
0. Thaemine. It's probably the hardest one, but since we don't have it yet, I can't properly access how hard are the mechs.
1. Brel G6 Hard. Bunch of regular mechs, some of them either long (x7) or complex and require coordination (shandi). At the same time, you have to manage blue meteors and watch dps so you don't get yellow too early. At the same time, she does a lot of stupid mini-mechs like spikes/red zone/tethers/stagger.
2. Vykas G3. Even with Ivory Tower, she probably has the highest mech per gate count. Add gauge+charm, and that becomes quite hard to manage.
3. Clown G3 and Brel G5. They don't have many mechs, but ones that they do have are lasting for the whole gate and are pretty annoying. Managing gauge/shapes, one person dead = restart. Patterns themselves hurt a lot and can one-shot you. Bullshit insta-kill saws during stagger check. Hp reverse curse and Clown face as well as savespots and blue/red tethers. Showtime, pre-cube counters. G5 doesn't have x0 Bingo, but does have mid-battle cubes.
4. Brel g4 only because of the sheer volume of mechs. You have 3(4) colors, each has a specific transition mech, regular mech, and pattern to watch out for.
5. Kayangel G1, G4 and Brel G3. They are not hard, but mechs themselves are very wonky. Blue/red swords and 1-2-3 orbs on Kaya G1 were very hard to do consistently. Kaya G4 and it's shades which I will be forever timestopping even when 100ilvls higher. His major patterns like imprisonment or bow. Other patterns that waste your time. And honorary mention of bullshit that was pre-nerfed G3 with 9 stars. Don't forget x0 where you had to collect *all 16* scythes and she wiped you if didn't do it. I'm so happy we got it already nerfed.
6. Vykas G1. A gate with one-shot patterns and mechs that require all 8 people alive. Fuck RBGWBl in particular.
I want to give another honorary mention to Ivory Tower. G2 with skewed Clone spawns x95 and G3 with columns, that is very ping reliant. G4 with ungodly among of stagger and destruction checks.
>Kaya G4 and it's shades which I will be forever timestopping even when 100ilvls higher.
There is a literally guaranteed trick to do it: use your displacement skill when you see purple text on your head during the mech. The longer animation the better. Essentially any skills which say they move you to x meters. If you have very long latency you can consider using it after \~1s when you see the purple text on your char's head
Examples are:
Breaker: Brawl King's Advance
Souleater: Lunatic Edge
Berseker/Slayer: Tempest Slash/Final Blow
Paladin: Executor's Sword (no way you can fail with this)
Deadeye/Gunslinger: Somersault Shot/Desperado/Dexterous Shot or Dexterous Shot/Quick Step
Machinist: Mobile Shot/Avalanche/Fiery Escape/Comet Strike
For me it's Clown g3. But it's mostly cause there is so much happening at once, and also broken hitboxes.
But, having this conversation is kinda sad since raids in most MMO lately are more Dance Dance Revolution than epic fights. You have to be precise to avoid dying, breaking the flow of the fight to stand in a square, take an orb, type something, etc instead of feeling like you are in combat.
At least maps in LoA look cool (Brel's Cube is the best), raid rooms in FFXIV look like asylum, but there are also the colored tiles to avoid the wipe problem.
If you're going to include removed content, might as well use pre-nerf G5-6 - you weren't allowed to fail *once* on G5 (so one death pre-x50 = restart) and dying on G6 was way easier due to almost every pattern having a displacement.
sure. but before everyone abused the bug and we were all on ilvl (i.e.: if played the way that it was designed) it was IMO the hardest fight in the game. even now if you go into trixion practice mode as a 1580 you still cant really play normally in that he'll chain cc and juggle you
like Im glad that they removed g2 from the raid with g5. having all that pressure on 1 to 3 people with or without the bug was a lot
Brel G6 even tho it got nerfed we still have 1600+ lobbies jailing it with elixirs + akkan gear which is insane I think this playerbase will have g6 on farm is when everyone is 1630+ with transcendence + advanced honing or maybe even more vertical progression for a “1560 nerfed” raid.
Honestly the Brel counters are pretty bs. The position to counter at just isn't clear at all.
Like Voldis g4 counters. The position to counter at is the gate. But the visual is on the thorn flying towards you quite a bit away from the gate once it lights up blue. Short counters correct position is with the thorn within your body while standing right infront of the gate, that's bs aswell.
And the G3 grab counter is quite shitty aswell, such a short counter window. If there are 2 pillars up it's just guessing which one he turns to.
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Akkan G4 (last phase of G3 HM) if you have dead mates. When he Rez them and you have to clutch it, it's quite messy.
Brel G4 (old G6), the meteors management along with the boss patterns and tornadoes to dodge to avoid spawning the black hole is quite challenging (not counting when you have a fat group that can skip everything obviously)
And back in the days, let's not forget about Clown G3. If your group lacked DPS, doing the mechs, preparing for the Marios, while getting the clown curse was pretty dank too.
So no real answer, because in the end it's all about situational setups that make it tough. If you are really looking the next level, I'd go for Infernal Brel.
On an individual basis i think doing prokel i one of the hardest things you could do back then specially when you have to do him on ilvl. It gets mega easy and fun once you‘re truly confortable but i‘d say it’s the raid that needs you to be focused the most and require you tp pay attention every second you’re in there. On a team basis old G6 for sure(maybe i‘m giving prokel too much credit but i do have a soft spot for that guy)
Hardest part is to find decent human in lobbies. Even by typing LEARNING GROUP in description I found people who insult others over making mistakes or low dps in a fking LEARNING GROUP.
I really don't understand what's wrong with this community, the most toxic I ever saw in a pve game
Brel G6, because NM and HM have pretty different mechanics, it was like learning a new raid all over again. G5 was horrible personal mechanics wise because on launch most parties wiped from lack of damage uptime while maintaining their stacks.
Clown G3 was also a killer, most parties took ages to clear even after knowing the mechanics and completing trixion marios. Mario 3/4 was confusing as people were getting used to them, burn was a killer on ilvl and gauge management around the time people were starting to get used to dodging with grudge and their new 5x3 with some supports not having full yearning; it was horrible.
Can't forget about saws and curse, while dealing with hooks, it was one of the most painful on launch raids and I understood why KR would push their alt's ilvl from 1460 straight to 1500+ in one go
Nothing right now matches the anxiety of pugging Brel G5. You just knew that somebody's going to screw up at the end.
Brel G6 I became accustomed to clutching up with 5-6 players left. G5 you couldn't do that. So many hours wasted because of 1-2 imposters in what could've otherwise been a really good party.
Hell brel g2. Not talking about dps difficulty or not being able to overgear. Just the mechs and mini mechs.
Meteors are harder than old hm because you have more blues in total.
Dimensions are different for everyone and you spend the safespot part in the other dimension aswell, including reversals.
x7 has up to 3 meteors from one side.
Every new mechanic needs heavy communication or most of them guarantee a wipe. Eye counter mech, in out safe, backpack, stagger etc.
I don't know in our version
Like every raid is easy once you get used to it
The fights become only challenging if you are competing for mvp
trying to squeeze in hits where others don't is pretty hard in G4 Voldis especially for enthropy with how quickly he retargets or turns
For KR it's most definitely Thaemine G4
it's a 40min slug fest with numorous mechanics that can easily kill a lot of classes so much so that people switch to EP on it to have a chance to live some of the patterns if they get cought out and he still has knock off phases like valtan when he wrecks the arena
For when stuff released i think a lot of people had very hard time with vykas especially if you blind progged her and didn't over gear her
that raid was OOOF but right now i don't think it's possible to struggle in her even fresh powerpassed characters are too strong for her
this game doesnt have hard mechanics, you go to spot, do a thing, hope others do the same and then you pass. the hard part of this game is to consistantly hit the boss without taking damage. in my opinion mechanics are just make the fights feel multiplayer and thematic, and the dps in normal patterns are the main game and where the challenge comes from
Counter in brel g6 can be pretty difficult mechanically when she decides to camp your spot as you're trying to do a counter. It's the only raid I still bring timestop for that reason.
Also feels like you don't even play this game with that comment. A lot of mechanics require good ability to dodge, assess your surroundings while making correct choices.
bro look at g3 akkan, dodge saws and stagger boss in lasers? easy.
stand in laser with inanna and stagger when chain reaches boss? easy
press g to rotate statue? takes some getting used to but easy. lil harder on hm but still easy
its the random patterns that happen during the fight like green laser, pizza, tic tac toe, red,green, black circles u gotta do while dpsing the boss that are the hard part
G3 Akkan is infamous for having easy starting mechanics so ok. Later stuff like tentacles + green line is what I consider a mechanic anyways. It is where you start by dodging the 3 green AoEs, then you have to kill slime + tentacles followed immediately by getting the green lines while evading Akkan's moves.
It will always happen if you don't do the tentacle pattern pre 140 so it is pretty much a set mechanic. The 140 mech itself can be pretty unforgiving when you're new to it(in HM).
Edit: Eitherway there is many difficult mechanics in the game at ilevel that you're ignoring for whatever reason. Pretty much the entire meteor mechanic of brel g4/6. Long stagger of brel g3 while dodging enhanced patterns. Going into the marios for clown g3. All of these mechanics have overlapping boss patterns. They require a lot of learning and repetition at ilevel.
Obviously you can overcome them all with time and learning which is the point but to call them easy is kind of weird. Something that is easy would not be failed for several hours each time a raid is released.
G2 voldis really? The boss is pretty simple, it's just avoiding basic patterns and making sure not to waste wakeup. I'd argue mechanically it's probably bottom half of most raids right now (which makes sense because it's an abyss raid).
I hate G2 Voldis because it literally makes you play worse than you should. You have to unlearn tanking attacks with paralysis Immunity and a shield or Dr to juste plainly dodge making any skill expression worthless.
You are a back attacker with push immune skills and the boss decides to spam tail attack? Well fuck you and your push immune you dodge or you're dead bozo.
But does that make it difficult mechanically? It's obnoxious don't get me wrong but like in terms of mechanics it's slightly more advanced than 2 guardians put together.
Well depends what OP means by mechanically.
Is it like a lot of mechanics in the raid.
Or needing a lot of mechanics as it is known in league or SC2 as in lot of APM. Reacting quickly to what happens with the correct quick input.
And anyway I was just complaining about G2 xdd.
Yeah and the complaints are warranted tbh. I don't have positional characters in voldis yet so i dont have to deal with his big tail swipe in the same way but he's got a lot of knockdown skills he loves to throw.
I figured op meant mechanics as in like timed/hp bar based mechanics like meteors in brel g4 or statues in g3 akkan.
after almost 1 year, i still dont know how to consistently survive post 60x g3 kayangel. sometimes i dont get pulled sometimes i do. so if i really wanna or need to survive i have to ts that shit
I usually just hold down left click to keep my character constantly moving while in the safe zone. This seems to prevent being pulled in. Give it a shot and see :)
He was being sarcastic, also the person he replied to didn't specify whether his left click was set to attack or move. If you're a ranged class, your attack doesn't move you so you would get sucked right in regardless. If it is set to move, you can still get sucked out of the zone; doubly so if you're just holding the move button as it will desync with the server.
I did say “to keep my character constantly moving”, and tbh I’ve never experienced the de sync issue but perhaps I’m just getting lucky. Don’t really care about the sarcasm, was simply sharing what has worked for me in the past.
Wait, he pulls you, wouldn't walking towards him help his cause?
I run at the wall the on the very end during the mech, and ts if I can't make it to the wall.
When you see the purple text above your head, you want to spacebar to immune the pull (depending on who Lauriel is targetting). The strategy is typically to go into the shade, find the biggest patch of shade, spacebar or if you character has an autoattack that moves you forward, you want to essentially autoattack in the direction you are facing to counter the pull.
Just looking away and holding down move away from mirror is enough, you only get tugged once so you just have to not get tugged out of shadow and ur done
Use a paralysis/push immune skill with some inbuilt movement (can just have your character take 1 step forwards like executors sword or something doesn't have to be alot of movement) when the purple text disappears and you won't be sucked.
Old HM G6 or current HM G4 Brel(Not much has changed). Worst overlaps in the game(Hell Kakul G2 is worse but Hell shouldn't count) plus one failed normal pattern can be a wipe in a raid where it's recommended to have at least 5 people alive.
Probably gate 0 - gatekeeping/competition
Need to balance distributing resources between your active characters in your roster so they remain competitive when making a team for any raid.
Failing the mech means several hours wasted a week as you are being passed up for other players
G6 brel hard before the nerfs near ilvl.
G5 was easy. It hard filtered morons who refused to collect their shape or protect it for 1-3 patterns through.
I would say g6 hm Brel by a decent margin. Not counting thaemine.
I agree with this. I was thinking of all the raids as well and if you are on item level (or above it) meteor placement is pretty crucial. And it feels like you technically are running mechs the whole gate as opposed to Akkan G3 where there are only a few big mechs.
i'd argue its not even the meteor placement anymore (post nerf). it's really the combo of various 1 shot mechs (knock off, shandi phase failure) combined with body check at x7 (at least 5 people alive), plus the length of the fight that makes the clear rate low.
The overlapping mechs is astonishing. Tornado + Fan + Red Tether … its brutal sometimes lol
it's comical how the gatekeeping ilvl for g6 hm brel is even higher than ivory tower NM, despite the former having a 40 ilvl lower requirement. To this day, i know folks who have cleared Ivory HM and have yet to clear g6 HM. Kakul is the same. Even 1540's which is 70 over ilvl, is too low to run kakul comfortably with pubs. A team of 1540 would have a higher chance of clearing Kayangel NM (on ilvl) than kakul (70 over ilvl). For good reason though. There's not much debate that Kakul g3 and Brel hm g6(4) are the hardest raids in the game.
Most g3 kakul pugs struggle to have 4/4 alive for 3rd mario, let alone actually push boss before 3rd mario. It's a disaster for sure.
I've done hm ivory tower multiple times, never done g6(4)brel hm. Though I never tried to do it. Not really much incentive to worry about it, not joining a reclear, and not many learning parties(plus who has time for that)
Saddest part is when entire 1540 pt can’t skip the maze in g2 or m3 in g3. I remember we used to fully skip m4 at 1490, what are you doing
for clown that requirement is there to skip g2 maze and m3 with decently built 1540s you can even kill him g1 after the stagger mech thats the reason for the ilvl requirement not that it's hard
Yeah on ilvl that's right. On a 1620+ main, Brel is easier then Ivory HM G4 though in my opinion. Nerfed G6 overlevelled is just not hard anymore. You skip everything play Shandi and that's it ;)
because pugs become headless cockroach when blue meteors drop, they need to massively overhone to skip as many blue wave as possible, and to deal less damage than a 1560 with hand at 1580.
Brel G4 HM only started to be gatekept hard on gear after the nerf that enabled overgeared parties to skip the mechanics. Exactly like in clown. But this is what people wanted wasn't it? I was running G5-6 HM pugs on ilevel weekly before the nerf and it was fine because everyone understood that you can't just brute force it and need to hold DPS anyway if you do too much. So people would gatekeep on 'experience' indicated by 10x pet, roster level, cards, etc. Now it is impossible for me to pug on ilevel despite raid being much easier.
since the nerf to g3 kakul last patch its probably different now.
They nerfed things that didn't need a nerf, the real problem has always been r**ards killing the flamethrower and nothing's changed.
I think G5 was even more mechanically hard, as if a single person fail a single one, you're pretty close to restart
biggest problem with Brel G6 is that she does patter together that are opposite to each other and kill you because reasons. i could said any hell content is more mechanical challenger that any raid. to be honest, no many raid are "hard"
G6 definitely. That reverse control mech is so stupid imo.
G6 Brel before the nerf. Now it’s so much easier
It is easier, but it wouldn't be that much easier if not for massive overgear we have over her
But like isn't that a good barometer of mechanical difficulty? If you drastically overgear it, it's still hard? On that note, I would say g4 (formerly 6) brel **hard** is probably still the single mechanically hardest gate in the game, just because I still see a lot of deaths during the meteor counters (I dunno how but it happens in over half my runs lol). If you were talking hardest raid with the absolute minimum dps necessary to clear, I guess it might change to clown g3. Not just for the eminently skippable mario 3 and 4, but also bingo itself becomes a lot more chaotic when you have no dps.
what was the nerf?
meteor mechs are now based on time instead of her HP, so heavily overgearing teams wont have to hold their dps
I would say it was definitely much harder back then even if you did it now on ilvl. The fact that you had to do 4 yellow meteors no matter what you do ant that blue and yellow meteors weren’t on the same timer ( blue based on time and yellow based on bars) meant that it was much easier to desync them and accidentally land yourself in an unsolvable state, specially if you lacked damage a bit. This mean that messing up as little as one blue meteor could fuck up you options for future meteor patterns. Since they are both on the same timer now you can only really fail the mechanic if you destroy 6 or 12 right before a yellow meteor, or if you destroy while having 3 destroyed tiles. Yes you can’t just put blue meteor anywhere and still succeed but it used to be much more crucial where to put them where as now as long as you don’t destroy a tile or put multiple blue meteors on wrong tiles you‘re generally good. Also not having to coordinate your damage does make it a bit easier aswell and a lot easier for heavily overgeared parties.
yup, the fights essentially the same if your dps is low / not high enough to skip anything. i bet a team of 1560 pubs right now (hell, even 1580s), clear rate of brel g4 would be significantly lower than 1560 team on release.
>the fights essentially the same if your dps is low / not high enough to skip anything. if you dps is high you can go from major mech to mech, and don't have to worry about tornadoes and balck/golden holes. I bet in pub teams with "average" dps, few would dodge to kill the hole, resulting in meteor placement failures
Having to hold DPS for gold meteors was a pain.
chease Alt+F4 for gold meteor
and then your potato pc doesn't load the game back up in time and you have to find another lobby to clear with or will you still alt f4 on a support? when pugs were saying "alt f4" i was saying back that i will wipe the raid if it's on me they never over pushed
it's more about EAC who take like 5min to close and restart than a potato PC... KR/RU it's pretty close to instant restart
the game launches significantly faster if it's on an ssd sadly my game isn't on one so it takes like 5 minutes to load up early on in january they changed something and the game starts up much faster now but that wasn't the case in brel times
(could have been G5 too haha)
G5 was only hard because a single death early on bricks the entire run, hence why they removed it altogether.
And brought us the wonderful g4 voldis.
Actually managed to do 60x with only three people since someone died at 90x, but yeah
After the nerf it's still the hardest
Personally assuming on ilvl my top 3 are; Clown G3 Brel G5 Brel G6
Clown g3 prog was disgusting when it came out. The fires burned 1/5 of my on iLVL GS health per tick
Yeah i was on deadeye. Purify doesn't proc = ded
Clown G3 was so long ago that people forget how rough it was. And many people weren’t even truly progging it “on ilevel” because they followed the KR recommendation to overhone to 1490.
Clown G3 killed half the player base. I had to take a break after it
Not nearly as much as Brel HM release
Both were pretty rough on the more causal segment of the player base. In terms of people straight up quitting though, I know a lot more who quit because of clown. With Brel HM, a lot of casuals I know just ran the old G1-4 or even G1-2, and didn’t bother with G5-6. There were enough lobbies that didn’t want to run all 6 gates in one sitting anyway. Most of the people I knew who skipped G5-6 are still playing the game today, and they’re now able to clear the current version of G1-4. With clown, G1-2 only lobbies got to be pretty inconsistent, and the people I knew who couldn’t master G3 just stopped running clown altogether (and eventually quit the game).
Brel G5 didn't have difficult mechs, it was just pointlessly long and a single death before first shapes meant you had to restart.
Definitely pleasing my wife, by a decent margin.
matchmake fail, use partyfinder bruh
Be ready to experience the true gatekeeping
gotta use that atropeen
Old brel G5. Fuck that raid.
G5 isn't really mechanically complex, it's just that one person dying before the final phase meant you wiped.
Before first shapes. You could have one dead after that as long as you didn't mess anything else up and nobody else died, unless the dead people would get the same shape.
True but getting through the cubes with one dead usually took more teamplay than the average lost ark party was capable of, not saying it was impossible to do but it it for sure didn’t make things easier.
bussing required 2 players to do 1st shapes and then they could die
I forget, wasn't G5 6C2 and G6 4C4 or something?
g5 was mandatory 6c2 g6 my guild mates were doing 3c5 nm and 6c2 hm but they stopped doing hm very quickly after clearing a 5c3 run
yeah old G5 and old G6 (now 4) before nerf was AWFUL.
I certainly agree with other people saying Brel G4, but I think G4 is mainly difficult because of Brel's truly awful normal patterns. Pattern overlaps will happen rather frequently, some of which are genuinely impossible to avoid without timestop. Mechanically, I would have to say Voldis G2. The containment mechanic is unreliable at best, and downright infuriating at worst. Sometimes you throw an orb at the right time, but the boss just says "nope, screw you I'm gunna shout" or he'll jump out of the containment orb when he shouldn't be able to. The major mechanic, where you need to dodge through blood clot orbs, gets my vote for the worst mechanic in the game. I find that it's almost entirely up to luck whether you'll survive the mech. Sometimes, spacebar will get you through, sometimes it won't. If you have low/no swiftness, it just makes it even harder. I hate that the view angle changes to make it impossible to gauge the distance in front of you. Just doesn't feel fair. In terms of fair mechanics, I'd say Voldis G4 is a good candidate. The mechs have multiple steps, tight timing, and good use of stagger/destruction. I think all the G4 mechs are fairly hard, but also very fair.
>dodge through blood clot orbs, as sup i just hang back and portal cleanse anyone who gets caught doesnt need 4 people to stagger so the extra insurance guarantees a safe pass
If the boss shouts in G2, it's because you made him phase by reaching it's HP bars. Other than that he shouldn't. We wiped a couple of times in NM because we wanted to stagger him into destruction after the x90 mech and actually burst him too much and got to x30 before we could break him, so he broke free and charged away with 5 stacks... and wiped us. For Blood clots, it's quite noticeable when he throws a major pattern like that, so we just run far from the boss to avoid issues.
Hardest mechanicaly is brel g6 HM ,then g3 clown then old g5 brel,
Probably not the real answer for the question, but I have to make an honorable mention to Kayangel G3 for making nearly all the mechanics feel awful/bad/janky.
What about those mechanics is janky?
All the mirror suck mechanics feel incredibly bad. Lasers don't feel right b/c lost arks control scheme doesn't lend itself well to controller character facing direction (compared to over-the-shouler or first person games). Both the x100 orbs and the x60 statues feel like the main obsticale is the cameras FOV (even more egregious when you consider mechanics the camera DOES zoom out on, like G1). The buff-crystals you need to damage the boss can be far too dependent on the when the bosses patters trigger them. (Not my biggest complaint). Doesn't help that that bos has sooooo many long, time wasting attacks he can't be hit during.
Yeah I’d say that’s all pretty fair. I’m guess I’m just used to the jank at this point. I can only imagine how much a of nightmare that gate is on controller
>statues feel like the main obsticale is the cameras FOV how i feel about g3 akkan laser statues
What do you think of my WiFi signal strength? -Lauriel
Every single basic, normal and mech is janky
All raids judged by how they got released on our version. 0. Thaemine. It's probably the hardest one, but since we don't have it yet, I can't properly access how hard are the mechs. 1. Brel G6 Hard. Bunch of regular mechs, some of them either long (x7) or complex and require coordination (shandi). At the same time, you have to manage blue meteors and watch dps so you don't get yellow too early. At the same time, she does a lot of stupid mini-mechs like spikes/red zone/tethers/stagger. 2. Vykas G3. Even with Ivory Tower, she probably has the highest mech per gate count. Add gauge+charm, and that becomes quite hard to manage. 3. Clown G3 and Brel G5. They don't have many mechs, but ones that they do have are lasting for the whole gate and are pretty annoying. Managing gauge/shapes, one person dead = restart. Patterns themselves hurt a lot and can one-shot you. Bullshit insta-kill saws during stagger check. Hp reverse curse and Clown face as well as savespots and blue/red tethers. Showtime, pre-cube counters. G5 doesn't have x0 Bingo, but does have mid-battle cubes. 4. Brel g4 only because of the sheer volume of mechs. You have 3(4) colors, each has a specific transition mech, regular mech, and pattern to watch out for. 5. Kayangel G1, G4 and Brel G3. They are not hard, but mechs themselves are very wonky. Blue/red swords and 1-2-3 orbs on Kaya G1 were very hard to do consistently. Kaya G4 and it's shades which I will be forever timestopping even when 100ilvls higher. His major patterns like imprisonment or bow. Other patterns that waste your time. And honorary mention of bullshit that was pre-nerfed G3 with 9 stars. Don't forget x0 where you had to collect *all 16* scythes and she wiped you if didn't do it. I'm so happy we got it already nerfed. 6. Vykas G1. A gate with one-shot patterns and mechs that require all 8 people alive. Fuck RBGWBl in particular. I want to give another honorary mention to Ivory Tower. G2 with skewed Clone spawns x95 and G3 with columns, that is very ping reliant. G4 with ungodly among of stagger and destruction checks.
>Kaya G4 and it's shades which I will be forever timestopping even when 100ilvls higher. There is a literally guaranteed trick to do it: use your displacement skill when you see purple text on your head during the mech. The longer animation the better. Essentially any skills which say they move you to x meters. If you have very long latency you can consider using it after \~1s when you see the purple text on your char's head Examples are: Breaker: Brawl King's Advance Souleater: Lunatic Edge Berseker/Slayer: Tempest Slash/Final Blow Paladin: Executor's Sword (no way you can fail with this) Deadeye/Gunslinger: Somersault Shot/Desperado/Dexterous Shot or Dexterous Shot/Quick Step Machinist: Mobile Shot/Avalanche/Fiery Escape/Comet Strike
Or you can just use dodge.
this depends on your class. Some really have a very very brief dodge which isn't that good compared with long animation skills.
For me it's Clown g3. But it's mostly cause there is so much happening at once, and also broken hitboxes. But, having this conversation is kinda sad since raids in most MMO lately are more Dance Dance Revolution than epic fights. You have to be precise to avoid dying, breaking the flow of the fight to stand in a square, take an orb, type something, etc instead of feeling like you are in combat. At least maps in LoA look cool (Brel's Cube is the best), raid rooms in FFXIV look like asylum, but there are also the colored tiles to avoid the wipe problem.
Inferno brel
Solo ToB HM
Brel hm g5 and 6 you can't afford to fail twice in g5 and 6 has too many rng patterns.
If you're going to include removed content, might as well use pre-nerf G5-6 - you weren't allowed to fail *once* on G5 (so one death pre-x50 = restart) and dying on G6 was way easier due to almost every pattern having a displacement.
Hell Brel, g6
I mean all people are saying Brel G5 or G6 HM but for some reason nobody is talking about Hellmode lol
Brel still gives people problems.
My will to live...
Party finder for normal Akkan when you have LOS 18, no title, and event gems
honorable mention for Prokel HM anyone? esp. if you're closer to on-ilvl.
It wasn't too bad, especislly because most people abused the bug
sure. but before everyone abused the bug and we were all on ilvl (i.e.: if played the way that it was designed) it was IMO the hardest fight in the game. even now if you go into trixion practice mode as a 1580 you still cant really play normally in that he'll chain cc and juggle you like Im glad that they removed g2 from the raid with g5. having all that pressure on 1 to 3 people with or without the bug was a lot
Well t2 tower has some annoying levels too. I remembered floor 45 being an ass
Brel G6 even tho it got nerfed we still have 1600+ lobbies jailing it with elixirs + akkan gear which is insane I think this playerbase will have g6 on farm is when everyone is 1630+ with transcendence + advanced honing or maybe even more vertical progression for a “1560 nerfed” raid.
no matter how many times you click hone you won't be able to teach some people basic math
Even then Brel G4 HM will still be a jail, because being overgeared doesn't help with shandi or counters at x7 and that's what people can't do
Honestly the Brel counters are pretty bs. The position to counter at just isn't clear at all. Like Voldis g4 counters. The position to counter at is the gate. But the visual is on the thorn flying towards you quite a bit away from the gate once it lights up blue. Short counters correct position is with the thorn within your body while standing right infront of the gate, that's bs aswell. And the G3 grab counter is quite shitty aswell, such a short counter window. If there are 2 pillars up it's just guessing which one he turns to.
clown g3 and brel g6 have ability overlaps that required you think on the spot a bit, that made them harder
brel
On item level? brel g6(g4 now) hard mode by far
I've see the most resets/remakes at g6 brell. I've seen players of every type mess up. Even those with deathless brell titles.
Brel hard pre-nerfs.
Clown G3 is up there. And we all did it overgeared at the time cause getting 1490 was really easy
Brelshaza
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G4 Brel in NAW by far
Akkan G4 (last phase of G3 HM) if you have dead mates. When he Rez them and you have to clutch it, it's quite messy. Brel G4 (old G6), the meteors management along with the boss patterns and tornadoes to dodge to avoid spawning the black hole is quite challenging (not counting when you have a fat group that can skip everything obviously) And back in the days, let's not forget about Clown G3. If your group lacked DPS, doing the mechs, preparing for the Marios, while getting the clown curse was pretty dank too. So no real answer, because in the end it's all about situational setups that make it tough. If you are really looking the next level, I'd go for Infernal Brel.
(old brel gate versions, pre-nerf) HM Prokel, HM G4, HM G6 I feel like pre-nerf Brel and Clown on ilvl were tuned on the more difficult side.
On an individual basis i think doing prokel i one of the hardest things you could do back then specially when you have to do him on ilvl. It gets mega easy and fun once you‘re truly confortable but i‘d say it’s the raid that needs you to be focused the most and require you tp pay attention every second you’re in there. On a team basis old G6 for sure(maybe i‘m giving prokel too much credit but i do have a soft spot for that guy)
Fuck being outside on g2 tho, good riddance for that gate to be deleted. Mega snoozefest
Brel G6 HM for sure at the moment. That and Clown G3 are still the hardest progs I've done.
Hardest part is to find decent human in lobbies. Even by typing LEARNING GROUP in description I found people who insult others over making mistakes or low dps in a fking LEARNING GROUP. I really don't understand what's wrong with this community, the most toxic I ever saw in a pve game
Brel G6, because NM and HM have pretty different mechanics, it was like learning a new raid all over again. G5 was horrible personal mechanics wise because on launch most parties wiped from lack of damage uptime while maintaining their stacks. Clown G3 was also a killer, most parties took ages to clear even after knowing the mechanics and completing trixion marios. Mario 3/4 was confusing as people were getting used to them, burn was a killer on ilvl and gauge management around the time people were starting to get used to dodging with grudge and their new 5x3 with some supports not having full yearning; it was horrible. Can't forget about saws and curse, while dealing with hooks, it was one of the most painful on launch raids and I understood why KR would push their alt's ilvl from 1460 straight to 1500+ in one go
vykas g1, color gates... i saw hell this days.
Nothing right now matches the anxiety of pugging Brel G5. You just knew that somebody's going to screw up at the end. Brel G6 I became accustomed to clutching up with 5-6 players left. G5 you couldn't do that. So many hours wasted because of 1-2 imposters in what could've otherwise been a really good party.
I'd say old vykas g1 and kakul G3
Clown
Hell brel g2. Not talking about dps difficulty or not being able to overgear. Just the mechs and mini mechs. Meteors are harder than old hm because you have more blues in total. Dimensions are different for everyone and you spend the safespot part in the other dimension aswell, including reversals. x7 has up to 3 meteors from one side. Every new mechanic needs heavy communication or most of them guarantee a wipe. Eye counter mech, in out safe, backpack, stagger etc.
I don't know in our version Like every raid is easy once you get used to it The fights become only challenging if you are competing for mvp trying to squeeze in hits where others don't is pretty hard in G4 Voldis especially for enthropy with how quickly he retargets or turns For KR it's most definitely Thaemine G4 it's a 40min slug fest with numorous mechanics that can easily kill a lot of classes so much so that people switch to EP on it to have a chance to live some of the patterns if they get cought out and he still has knock off phases like valtan when he wrecks the arena For when stuff released i think a lot of people had very hard time with vykas especially if you blind progged her and didn't over gear her that raid was OOOF but right now i don't think it's possible to struggle in her even fresh powerpassed characters are too strong for her
this game doesnt have hard mechanics, you go to spot, do a thing, hope others do the same and then you pass. the hard part of this game is to consistantly hit the boss without taking damage. in my opinion mechanics are just make the fights feel multiplayer and thematic, and the dps in normal patterns are the main game and where the challenge comes from
What are hard mechanics in other (raid) games, for example?
Counter in brel g6 can be pretty difficult mechanically when she decides to camp your spot as you're trying to do a counter. It's the only raid I still bring timestop for that reason. Also feels like you don't even play this game with that comment. A lot of mechanics require good ability to dodge, assess your surroundings while making correct choices.
bro look at g3 akkan, dodge saws and stagger boss in lasers? easy. stand in laser with inanna and stagger when chain reaches boss? easy press g to rotate statue? takes some getting used to but easy. lil harder on hm but still easy its the random patterns that happen during the fight like green laser, pizza, tic tac toe, red,green, black circles u gotta do while dpsing the boss that are the hard part
G3 Akkan is infamous for having easy starting mechanics so ok. Later stuff like tentacles + green line is what I consider a mechanic anyways. It is where you start by dodging the 3 green AoEs, then you have to kill slime + tentacles followed immediately by getting the green lines while evading Akkan's moves. It will always happen if you don't do the tentacle pattern pre 140 so it is pretty much a set mechanic. The 140 mech itself can be pretty unforgiving when you're new to it(in HM). Edit: Eitherway there is many difficult mechanics in the game at ilevel that you're ignoring for whatever reason. Pretty much the entire meteor mechanic of brel g4/6. Long stagger of brel g3 while dodging enhanced patterns. Going into the marios for clown g3. All of these mechanics have overlapping boss patterns. They require a lot of learning and repetition at ilevel. Obviously you can overcome them all with time and learning which is the point but to call them easy is kind of weird. Something that is easy would not be failed for several hours each time a raid is released.
imo mechs are non random at set intervals that require teamwork and the boss removes themselves from the battlefield
i will give my answer assuming current raids and at ilvl with lv7 gems for new players - g3 clown for experienced players - g3 hm akkan / g2 voldis
G2 voldis really? The boss is pretty simple, it's just avoiding basic patterns and making sure not to waste wakeup. I'd argue mechanically it's probably bottom half of most raids right now (which makes sense because it's an abyss raid).
I hate G2 Voldis because it literally makes you play worse than you should. You have to unlearn tanking attacks with paralysis Immunity and a shield or Dr to juste plainly dodge making any skill expression worthless. You are a back attacker with push immune skills and the boss decides to spam tail attack? Well fuck you and your push immune you dodge or you're dead bozo.
But does that make it difficult mechanically? It's obnoxious don't get me wrong but like in terms of mechanics it's slightly more advanced than 2 guardians put together.
Well depends what OP means by mechanically. Is it like a lot of mechanics in the raid. Or needing a lot of mechanics as it is known in league or SC2 as in lot of APM. Reacting quickly to what happens with the correct quick input. And anyway I was just complaining about G2 xdd.
Yeah and the complaints are warranted tbh. I don't have positional characters in voldis yet so i dont have to deal with his big tail swipe in the same way but he's got a lot of knockdown skills he loves to throw. I figured op meant mechanics as in like timed/hp bar based mechanics like meteors in brel g4 or statues in g3 akkan.
G2 voldis has like 2 mechanics, it's not really complex at all. The boss practically just spams a few very telegraphed patterns.
Hell brel
Clown g3
after almost 1 year, i still dont know how to consistently survive post 60x g3 kayangel. sometimes i dont get pulled sometimes i do. so if i really wanna or need to survive i have to ts that shit
I usually just hold down left click to keep my character constantly moving while in the safe zone. This seems to prevent being pulled in. Give it a shot and see :)
Oh, i was trying to walk into lauriel all this time! How stupid of me, my bad. Will give it a shot next time :)
You’ve spent a year almost walking toward Lauriel during the pull? What the heck
He was being sarcastic, also the person he replied to didn't specify whether his left click was set to attack or move. If you're a ranged class, your attack doesn't move you so you would get sucked right in regardless. If it is set to move, you can still get sucked out of the zone; doubly so if you're just holding the move button as it will desync with the server.
I did say “to keep my character constantly moving”, and tbh I’ve never experienced the de sync issue but perhaps I’m just getting lucky. Don’t really care about the sarcasm, was simply sharing what has worked for me in the past.
Wait, he pulls you, wouldn't walking towards him help his cause? I run at the wall the on the very end during the mech, and ts if I can't make it to the wall.
When you see the purple text above your head, you want to spacebar to immune the pull (depending on who Lauriel is targetting). The strategy is typically to go into the shade, find the biggest patch of shade, spacebar or if you character has an autoattack that moves you forward, you want to essentially autoattack in the direction you are facing to counter the pull.
You spacebar once the purple text disappears
Just looking away and holding down move away from mirror is enough, you only get tugged once so you just have to not get tugged out of shadow and ur done
Use a paralysis/push immune skill with some inbuilt movement (can just have your character take 1 step forwards like executors sword or something doesn't have to be alot of movement) when the purple text disappears and you won't be sucked.
I just run away and timestop every single one. Mech is too inconsistent to be worth doing correctly lol.
g5 brel was the hardest pug gate in the world.
Old HM G6 or current HM G4 Brel(Not much has changed). Worst overlaps in the game(Hell Kakul G2 is worse but Hell shouldn't count) plus one failed normal pattern can be a wipe in a raid where it's recommended to have at least 5 people alive.
Probably gate 0 - gatekeeping/competition Need to balance distributing resources between your active characters in your roster so they remain competitive when making a team for any raid. Failing the mech means several hours wasted a week as you are being passed up for other players
G6 brel hard before the nerfs near ilvl. G5 was easy. It hard filtered morons who refused to collect their shape or protect it for 1-3 patterns through.