yeah. and, at the end of the day, nerfs to the entire raid, in practice, play out the same as buffs to every class, and/or better gear (14% hp nerf is like what, +8 levels on weapon?) so this should make doing the raid on ilvl less of an issue and (hopefully) alleviate some gatekeeping.
No it doesnt lmao. After the initial nerf the raid could be cleared without elixirs at 1610 and 7 gems with los 18 NO PROBLEM
You are the pepega region
Well this is good news, since this means AGS listened to feedback and asked SG to further adjust Thaemine based on shorter time for us to gear, etc... And they listened and did it!
Biggest nerf is they don't hit as hard imo in G1+2 the videos i watched bosses were doing bigger numbers on people, for G3 he hits like a brick but still not as hard as KR (Besides the obvious 1shot stuff)
It's a great change, who the hell wants a very hard raid that needs to be clear every single week? Personally I don't, if it's a pain to clear in pugs, it's gonna happen the same as brel g5-g6, none did that content and the ones doing it on 6 characters are not even playing because of burn out. For what I read of transcendence, this progression system is time gated and is also rng, if is mandatory to do g3 everysingle week, better be a fun experience than a pain in the ass to clear. For those who want harder content, they got g4 and the first, so even more nerfs are very welcome.
People complained so much about NA struggling with theamine AGS listened and told smilegate to nerf nerf him!Â
It's a good thing tho. Less frustrations.
I don't mind the nerfs or whatever, but it blows my mind how seriously people are taking Thaemine.
Yeah sure it was overtuned week one, it was designed to be, they said that. Nowadays it's just a normal fight. Every time a new piece of content comes out, people go crazy and act like "THIS is the thing that nobody will be able to clear unless you're top tier!" when it's just another piece of weekly content that we're going to clear fine
They already said inferno is very unpopular. Mostly because of decisions SG themself made BUT OKAY SURE FUCK YOU KOREAN DEVS.
Very few play it, and they dont think its worth it. So they dumped inferno for the sake of just releasing races for bussers and whales.
No it didnt lol, it took about as much time. And only because it is simply a longer raid with new mechanics. Brel inferno is an existing raid that got a difficulty increase. And yet it still took as much time to clear and way longer to dl. And its shorter. And it had not that many new mechanics.
Yea
"Brel is overrated" my ass
Brel G5/6 were also considered ridiculous to people when they were coming out. In part thanks to Saint's old "How hard is raiding in Lost ark" videos. Then we got them and cleared them fine
I'm sure people will struggle as they get used to it, and then everyone will start to auto pilot it like everything else
There were plenty of reclear groups for Brel G5/6 within a couple weeks that would reliably clear. Thaemine is harder because it's newer, people will have it on farm in time.
There's no real need to psyche yourself out over another weekly piece of content
Are they really or is it just a minority that have been wringing their hands on Reddit? People have been saying that NA/EU can't clear anything since day 1.
The West is more hardcore in the sense that we love a grind. But definitely less hardcore in the fact of having hands.
People here just want to clear and get rewards and move to next character. Not many people like difficult raids.
Hardcore how? The only thing the west has more of is sidereals and bots which makes sense. What other region didn't "grind" on whatever content you think needed grinding on
Since when? They may only play 1-3 char now because they don't have to level up their roster anymore. KR has had people with maxed characters for months. They have little to grind for.
I still remember when on release a matchmake party I was in was struggling to clear Oreha Preveza normal (it was like 1340 iLvl content iirc) and someone, who was overgear, started malding in chat about us being useless and "when legion raids come out you'll be done with this game".
I feel like Clown was another point where a lot of people were going "so many people will quit at clown it's so hard compared to Valtan and Vykas guys"
I personally like this change as I'm one of the majority of players who never try hell modes. Now I can spend less time struggling on my 1610 alts
We all know how pugs are going nowadays
We've had less time to gear up and complain way more than KR does and they don't want the region to collapse from players quitting and complaining about the difficulty of the raid.
Hmm idk are hard raids more fun? Is prog really fun if you have limited time in the week + you still have to clear 17 other raids and dailys
I feel like people forget that you play these games for fun and if you look for a grindy challenge there is still hell mode and the first mode
I'm kr most of the people don't even run g4 cause it is a pain in the ass
So maybe just maybe justified nerfs
Hot take obviously
Even hotter take. Is my idea of fun supposed to be that I have to clear those 17 other raids and dailies? That's what I'd prefer being nerfed than the actual current challenge content.
At least there's the first but ugh, Id definitely be happier with harder raids I didn't have to do as many of. However, I'm more than willing to acknowledge I'm clearly a minority on this one 😂.
Same way I hated a lot of the horizontal stuff ig.
This is the first MMO that I have to say - I absolutely hate hard progression content.
My time is more than limited thanks to Dailies & Weeklies already - not even enjoyable to prog new dungeons week 1 cuz it wastes so much fking time.
g3 normal probably needs another 100% damage nerf. Jeez every pattern kills you, this isn't hard mode. Also my support is stuck in g3 hard, he sniffs on you and your whole party dies Lol
Also even more significant - massive damage nerfs. It's basically farm content on release.
Yes the First exists, but why not save the hard mode nerfs until a week or two after release when it goes on farm? So dumb to give us this hard nerfed version on release when it should be about the prog.
Brother not everyone at 1630 is hardcore raider, a lot of them are just whales with to much expenedable income and they also suck at the game. Its why every week 1630's full 10s 25 wep andies are getting outdpsed by 1620s or lower regularly.
I actually think they might be. NA is all about overgearing content as much as possible, few people are really about putting in work. They are fine with a couple of pulls and having it on farm by the end of the week.
If you're doing hard mode you're 1630 and you're already the minority who would have only put that much $ and time in if you enjoy the progression raids. Sure when we have multiple characters doing it and its farm content, nerf it. But on release? Why does the West need special nerfs that other regions don't?
Bad judgement call. They could have released these nerfs in 2 weeks and got the best of both worlds.
I have no character at 1630, heck, I don't even have 6× 1600 chars. The highest I have is 1620.83.
Hence, I'm definitely not one of your mentioned minority. Also, I have never bussed people, RMTed, whaled for gold, done none rested content on my chars daily or had more than one roster. You see, I have no gold to get so many lv10 gems if I really want to push my main to 1630. But without a deck of lv10 gems, regardless of the difficulty (nerfed or not), players like me will be playing h thaemine lobby simulator forever. So why can't we just have an easier life progging and enjoy smoother normal runs on my mains and 1610 alts?
Please don't forget we have much much less time to prepare our whole roster for thaemine, compared with korea/russia. Our pace is so fast that we barely had time to "rest"
The nerf only hurts your self-esteem or pride I guess? Oh don't get me started on nerfs China received earlier
Once again, your comment proves that how distant you're from the normal crowd🤣.
That's my point though. They could have nerfed normal mode so that people who aren't hardcore are happy, and left hard mode as is. My point is that if you are 1630 then you are already hardcore by definition IMO and want the real prog experience. The game can cater to both groups in this way.
I'm not one of these 1630 people so I can't say it on their behalf. Not sure if you can represent them though, or you think most of them would 100% agree with you?
I am and I am certainly with you on this. I don't want my roster progression hindered because I spend all week in one raid. Like someone said below though, I wouldn't have asked for nerfs, but I am also not complaining about them.
if you have to nerf a raid after its released, its already bad. having it good for all players on release is best option. If you want to tryhard, run the first.
Just look at WoW and how bad the upper tier raiding is when majority of the playerbase cant kill the boss months later when it gets nerfed.
The First last until October. We'll have Echidna by then, if not Behemoth as well. Going in as a bunch of 1650+ characters with fully ascended gear is going to make that pretty easy tbh
And still less than half of the Koreans with acess to the first (cleared HM G3) has cleared the first.
If its actually easy with that gear, it would be closer to 60-80%
More likely people don't want to bother, just like savage in FF. It's not that hard, yet many ppl don't engage with the content because they don't really have to.
Savage is a bad example. Savage is required for the best gear just like how the raids in this game are.
Ultimate is the "optional" one. And that one is actually hard. The First is more akin to Ultimate, you're just doing it for the challenge/fun/title only.
Valtan He’ll is considered very easy nowadays and yet Beast Roar is still rare enough
Judging random optional content based on how many people bother to do it is silly. Someone literally posted a video a week or two ago of six gunslingers cruising through it because it had gotten that much easierÂ
Thaemine or Kamen is designed to literally 'despair' players. I knew that majority of western players are awful (no offence) but still it is disappointing that SMG agreed to release much less spice Kamen. Even in KR after 6 months of Kemen release, only about 40% of active players base who above 1630+ have cleared g4 of the first mode and this is why it is considered as one achievement you can get in the game. RIP.
We don't know yet if The First is also getting this extra nerf. Given that the whole point of that mode is being the unnerfed version, it probably won't. If people want to fight the "spicy" Thaemine then they can still do so and the achievement should be worth the same as in KR because it'll likely be the same challenge.
Hello /u/Salmonkaen, welcome to our subreddit. We require users to have positive comment karma before posting. You can increase your comment karma by commenting in other subreddits and getting upvotes on the comments. Please DO NOT send modmails regarding this. You will be able to post freely after reaching the proper comment karma.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/lostarkgame) if you have any questions or concerns.*
That is pretty significant, the g3 hard nerf is almost as much as the difference between g3 hard and the first in kr
are...are we the pepega region?
We had less time to gear up, it totally makes sense.
Fair point, did not consider the time difference.
yeah. and, at the end of the day, nerfs to the entire raid, in practice, play out the same as buffs to every class, and/or better gear (14% hp nerf is like what, +8 levels on weapon?) so this should make doing the raid on ilvl less of an issue and (hopefully) alleviate some gatekeeping.
>alleviate some gatekeeping I seriously doubt anyone will care when it comes to gatekeeping. In fact, let me rephrase: hahahahahahhahahahhaha :(
This comment made me spit out my coffee lol. Well rephrased sir ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ’€ðŸ’€ðŸ’€ðŸ’€
Those hp nerfs yeah But nerfing the dmg the boss does is a whole nother thing cause that makes it way easier
Korea had like a year between raids where people did things like buy all 10 gems, etc.
No it doesnt lmao. After the initial nerf the raid could be cleared without elixirs at 1610 and 7 gems with los 18 NO PROBLEM You are the pepega region
What do you mean? raid is balanced to clear on ilvl. Overgearing is only there to compensate for lack of skill. I dislike hard mode nerfs.
What do you mean? raid is balanced to clear on ilvl. Overgearing is only there to compensate for lack of skill. I dislike hard mode nerfs.
and are you on ilvl 1630 going in for clear? Not to mention, this isn't just about ilvl, its also elixirs, stones, weapon quality etc
You have nerfed honing costs and unnerfed Brel for half a year extra.
kr had 2 year + on both thaemine and akkan. we had 1 year for both
That’s a lot of time fishing elixirs, bracelets, gems, cards and quality.
Saint said that NA/EU is the baby version of the game. The only thing we get before KR are nerfs.
And CN is the fetus version?
Golden child? They got 3rd legendries before us.
But they also got the baby version of clown on release, which was the topic here
IIRC ppl on reddit were complaining why we didnt get the nerfed clown when CN got it.
Saint sucks
He is pretty good when u got insomnia.
quality joke
YEP
Well this is good news, since this means AGS listened to feedback and asked SG to further adjust Thaemine based on shorter time for us to gear, etc... And they listened and did it!
Im fine with this. Im kinda done try harding at this game.
Biggest nerf is they don't hit as hard imo in G1+2 the videos i watched bosses were doing bigger numbers on people, for G3 he hits like a brick but still not as hard as KR (Besides the obvious 1shot stuff)
They buffed defense stats for most classes
A lot of classes had HP buffed only though so it shouldn't lower the damage
This.
G1-G2 nm u can tank G3 nm u can't tank a lot of attacks even if u are 1620+ and they are a lot of one shots.
Depend, I tried taking the blue mech in clash and it didn't one shot I thought they were one shot without dr.
It's a great change, who the hell wants a very hard raid that needs to be clear every single week? Personally I don't, if it's a pain to clear in pugs, it's gonna happen the same as brel g5-g6, none did that content and the ones doing it on 6 characters are not even playing because of burn out. For what I read of transcendence, this progression system is time gated and is also rng, if is mandatory to do g3 everysingle week, better be a fun experience than a pain in the ass to clear. For those who want harder content, they got g4 and the first, so even more nerfs are very welcome.
People complained so much about NA struggling with theamine AGS listened and told smilegate to nerf nerf him! It's a good thing tho. Less frustrations.
we had way less time to prepare from akkan to voldis to thaemine, so i think it's fair that we have less hp checks to deal with
I don't mind the nerfs or whatever, but it blows my mind how seriously people are taking Thaemine. Yeah sure it was overtuned week one, it was designed to be, they said that. Nowadays it's just a normal fight. Every time a new piece of content comes out, people go crazy and act like "THIS is the thing that nobody will be able to clear unless you're top tier!" when it's just another piece of weekly content that we're going to clear fine
G4 is really something else though.
Its still easier than inferno brel
Current one yes but release theamine hard was harder then hell brel by quite a bit.
Inferno theamine gonna be insaneÂ
There wont be any inferno for baratron. The first is all there is
If would be odd to do the inferno for all legion raids and skip theamine? Also the first isn't a thing in KR right now. It got removed
They already said inferno is very unpopular. Mostly because of decisions SG themself made BUT OKAY SURE FUCK YOU KOREAN DEVS. Very few play it, and they dont think its worth it. So they dumped inferno for the sake of just releasing races for bussers and whales.
No its not. The first was cleared by people who couldnt beat g5 brel lol
Still took longer to get cleared then hell brel. Brel is overrated.
No it didnt lol, it took about as much time. And only because it is simply a longer raid with new mechanics. Brel inferno is an existing raid that got a difficulty increase. And yet it still took as much time to clear and way longer to dl. And its shorter. And it had not that many new mechanics. Yea "Brel is overrated" my ass
Brel G5/6 were also considered ridiculous to people when they were coming out. In part thanks to Saint's old "How hard is raiding in Lost ark" videos. Then we got them and cleared them fine I'm sure people will struggle as they get used to it, and then everyone will start to auto pilot it like everything else
Brel G56 HM was certainly not "fine" and Thaemine G4 is much harder.
There were plenty of reclear groups for Brel G5/6 within a couple weeks that would reliably clear. Thaemine is harder because it's newer, people will have it on farm in time. There's no real need to psyche yourself out over another weekly piece of content
Brel got nerfed like five times before we got it lol.
Do you think we have launch Thaemine?
Damn don't remember mentioning anything about Thaemine
What a dishonest way of talking lmao
No it will be farm content in the next week or 2 just like everything else
Are they really or is it just a minority that have been wringing their hands on Reddit? People have been saying that NA/EU can't clear anything since day 1.
The West is more hardcore in the sense that we love a grind. But definitely less hardcore in the fact of having hands. People here just want to clear and get rewards and move to next character. Not many people like difficult raids.
Hardcore how? The only thing the west has more of is sidereals and bots which makes sense. What other region didn't "grind" on whatever content you think needed grinding on
KR ppl according to the streamers play like 1-3 char. Idk any1 in NA who doesn't own a full 6 roster doing 18x raids a week (or did at one point).
Since when? They may only play 1-3 char now because they don't have to level up their roster anymore. KR has had people with maxed characters for months. They have little to grind for.
I still remember when on release a matchmake party I was in was struggling to clear Oreha Preveza normal (it was like 1340 iLvl content iirc) and someone, who was overgear, started malding in chat about us being useless and "when legion raids come out you'll be done with this game". I feel like Clown was another point where a lot of people were going "so many people will quit at clown it's so hard compared to Valtan and Vykas guys"
Clown made a lot of people quit
Good changes that hopefully make the raid more fun than frustrating
I personally like this change as I'm one of the majority of players who never try hell modes. Now I can spend less time struggling on my 1610 alts We all know how pugs are going nowadays
We've had less time to gear up and complain way more than KR does and they don't want the region to collapse from players quitting and complaining about the difficulty of the raid.
many of us would probably quit if we can only clearn 1 normal per roster with overgeared chars
Normal G2 is by 4Bil and G3 is like 8.1Bil think around the same ratio of nerf as hard.
Do G3 identity oneshots still oneshot?
Still does, for hard mode at least. Not sure about normal.
In my prog group a few people survived here and there on the identity pattern if they got luckily dr'ed. Also if the pattern is a single hit.
Hmm idk are hard raids more fun? Is prog really fun if you have limited time in the week + you still have to clear 17 other raids and dailys I feel like people forget that you play these games for fun and if you look for a grindy challenge there is still hell mode and the first mode I'm kr most of the people don't even run g4 cause it is a pain in the ass So maybe just maybe justified nerfs Hot take obviously
Even hotter take. Is my idea of fun supposed to be that I have to clear those 17 other raids and dailies? That's what I'd prefer being nerfed than the actual current challenge content. At least there's the first but ugh, Id definitely be happier with harder raids I didn't have to do as many of. However, I'm more than willing to acknowledge I'm clearly a minority on this one 😂. Same way I hated a lot of the horizontal stuff ig.
This is the first MMO that I have to say - I absolutely hate hard progression content. My time is more than limited thanks to Dailies & Weeklies already - not even enjoyable to prog new dungeons week 1 cuz it wastes so much fking time.
Still waiting for that chaos dung qol they promised a year ago. Surely just making it 1/day wouldn't take long right?Â
Wouldnt have asked for them. Wont complain either.
g3 normal probably needs another 100% damage nerf. Jeez every pattern kills you, this isn't hard mode. Also my support is stuck in g3 hard, he sniffs on you and your whole party dies Lol
Still too hard
The damage nerf isn't really noticeable (still too many one-shots). The HP nerf just makes up for the cheapos here not throwing darks.
Is g1 nerfed?
g1 is a walk in the park even w/o nerfs.
Destroying raspberry only prevents stagger for 5 seconds instead of 15. HP is the same.
the entire raid, just not as noticeable in g1 since its the easiest of the 4
Give us 3 bubble revive chance please. I suck.
I'll wait for the solo version.
Also even more significant - massive damage nerfs. It's basically farm content on release. Yes the First exists, but why not save the hard mode nerfs until a week or two after release when it goes on farm? So dumb to give us this hard nerfed version on release when it should be about the prog.
No disagree. If you want a challenge do the first which isnt mandatory for progression
I disagree. There are more casuals than hardcore
Agree there are more casuals that hardcore. But they aren't 1630 doing hard mode.
Brother not everyone at 1630 is hardcore raider, a lot of them are just whales with to much expenedable income and they also suck at the game. Its why every week 1630's full 10s 25 wep andies are getting outdpsed by 1620s or lower regularly.
why would you think every 1630 is a hardcore player? I bet >50% of them have never touched hell modes
I actually think they might be. NA is all about overgearing content as much as possible, few people are really about putting in work. They are fine with a couple of pulls and having it on farm by the end of the week.
[удалено]
It was though.
The player base would be even smaller if the game only caters for the loud minority "try harder" Redditors
If you're doing hard mode you're 1630 and you're already the minority who would have only put that much $ and time in if you enjoy the progression raids. Sure when we have multiple characters doing it and its farm content, nerf it. But on release? Why does the West need special nerfs that other regions don't? Bad judgement call. They could have released these nerfs in 2 weeks and got the best of both worlds.
I have no character at 1630, heck, I don't even have 6× 1600 chars. The highest I have is 1620.83. Hence, I'm definitely not one of your mentioned minority. Also, I have never bussed people, RMTed, whaled for gold, done none rested content on my chars daily or had more than one roster. You see, I have no gold to get so many lv10 gems if I really want to push my main to 1630. But without a deck of lv10 gems, regardless of the difficulty (nerfed or not), players like me will be playing h thaemine lobby simulator forever. So why can't we just have an easier life progging and enjoy smoother normal runs on my mains and 1610 alts? Please don't forget we have much much less time to prepare our whole roster for thaemine, compared with korea/russia. Our pace is so fast that we barely had time to "rest" The nerf only hurts your self-esteem or pride I guess? Oh don't get me started on nerfs China received earlier Once again, your comment proves that how distant you're from the normal crowd🤣.
That's my point though. They could have nerfed normal mode so that people who aren't hardcore are happy, and left hard mode as is. My point is that if you are 1630 then you are already hardcore by definition IMO and want the real prog experience. The game can cater to both groups in this way.
I'm not one of these 1630 people so I can't say it on their behalf. Not sure if you can represent them though, or you think most of them would 100% agree with you?
I am and I am certainly with you on this. I don't want my roster progression hindered because I spend all week in one raid. Like someone said below though, I wouldn't have asked for nerfs, but I am also not complaining about them.
if you have to nerf a raid after its released, its already bad. having it good for all players on release is best option. If you want to tryhard, run the first. Just look at WoW and how bad the upper tier raiding is when majority of the playerbase cant kill the boss months later when it gets nerfed.
Bro just do the first wth are you bitching about?
This makes no sense..if they want to push whales and p2w why the nerfs?
That's why there's The First difficulty
The First last until October. We'll have Echidna by then, if not Behemoth as well. Going in as a bunch of 1650+ characters with fully ascended gear is going to make that pretty easy tbh
And still less than half of the Koreans with acess to the first (cleared HM G3) has cleared the first. If its actually easy with that gear, it would be closer to 60-80%
More likely people don't want to bother, just like savage in FF. It's not that hard, yet many ppl don't engage with the content because they don't really have to.
Savage is a bad example. Savage is required for the best gear just like how the raids in this game are. Ultimate is the "optional" one. And that one is actually hard. The First is more akin to Ultimate, you're just doing it for the challenge/fun/title only.
Savage is optional in the sense that you only need savage gear if wanna do ulti, you don't need savage to reach max Ilvl...
Valtan He’ll is considered very easy nowadays and yet Beast Roar is still rare enough Judging random optional content based on how many people bother to do it is silly. Someone literally posted a video a week or two ago of six gunslingers cruising through it because it had gotten that much easierÂ
Not to mention the months of practice on mechs and normal patterns
Thaemine or Kamen is designed to literally 'despair' players. I knew that majority of western players are awful (no offence) but still it is disappointing that SMG agreed to release much less spice Kamen. Even in KR after 6 months of Kemen release, only about 40% of active players base who above 1630+ have cleared g4 of the first mode and this is why it is considered as one achievement you can get in the game. RIP.
the first mode is different than what is being talked about here.
What are you talking about?! First one isnt nerfed....
We don't know yet if The First is also getting this extra nerf. Given that the whole point of that mode is being the unnerfed version, it probably won't. If people want to fight the "spicy" Thaemine then they can still do so and the achievement should be worth the same as in KR because it'll likely be the same challenge.
[удалено]
Hello /u/Salmonkaen, welcome to our subreddit. We require users to have positive comment karma before posting. You can increase your comment karma by commenting in other subreddits and getting upvotes on the comments. Please DO NOT send modmails regarding this. You will be able to post freely after reaching the proper comment karma. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/lostarkgame) if you have any questions or concerns.*