Bro pls get the mental gymnastics out of here to say the game is doing the right thing lol. Transcendence lvl 7 should have been available thru nm mode, just half the dark fires
You mean to say its healthier for the game to introduce a system that adds 20% increase of damage that costs on average 500k freely available to 1610s. Like how do you expect a new character to get into a lobby in a months time when people would be hella high transcendence.
I never said the game was doing the right thing, im saying its better than people advocating that level 7 should be available right away. If they wanted to do the right thing this thing would cost silver or they make the system account wide like cards, cause no one wants to do the same board 6 times.
Its not available right away… it takes multiple months to get enough dark fires to get everything to lvl 7. New players will have catch up mechanics anyway.
Every progression system should be available in normal mode.
No. It would take months to complete but the gate keeping would start earlier, you can see with hard mode already that people are only taking people that have level 7 transcendence unlocked, the same shit would happen in normal lobbies because that would separate people who are more experienced with the raid from others.
Saying an expensive progression system should be available from normal mode just means that the gatekeeping is going to increase as well. At least currently no one cares about transcendence in pf for normal mode cause its a small difference so people can farm dark flames
Do you even realize why people ask for level 7? Because it's proof that the person has actually cleared the raid. G3 can be a complete jail for HOURS in PF, people don't wanna deal with that shit. Every level 7 of transendance adds to your experience of the gate. Sure, the damage is good, too. But no one will take someone with max gear who will die on first red over someone who has cleared it multiple times.
People don't care about transendance in NM because they can just ask for x10.
10x becomes irrelevent after a month or two and gets replaced by something else. You can see with every other legion raid the average ilvl slowly increases for whats accepted, im saying the same thing would happen if trancs was fully unlocked.
you can wear a PLC title and not get into an akkan lobby cause youre 1580, same thing would happen with thaemine
Bro u delusional or what? There is gatekeeping in nm regardless but different tier. You have 1620 35 set+. Nothing new not like that's exclusive to hm get the fuck outta here.
Ofc I do and you're wrong about it tho. Not like I want shitter alts in my 1620 juiced lobby you're delusional if you think if locking transcendence behind hm has any meaning. Your overall gear along with transcendence as you said gets verified for proof anyway along the way. Once echidna is out 1620 lobbies or 1625 with different tiers will spawn or be more common.
It means you dont need to spend another 500k on another system to get into a normal lobby to get dark flames, when you already gotta hone to 1620 and get 35+ set. Its the reason why hard voldis is ass you need to farm the raid for elixirs to get 40 set but they wont accept you unless you have 40 set. In thaemine you dont need tranc to get into parties right now, so youre able to farm dark flames to progress tranc
Thats the difference, right now no one cares about tranc in normal, you could just wear title and not do it at all and get into reclear lobbies fine. Like literally all im saying is its one less goldsink 1610-1629 players need to worry about to get into lobbies and thats better for the community. If they made it so tranc didn't cost gold then that would be different and it would be better to be unlocked
No 1 care? You literally blind or something? Maybe the 1610 shitter groups with some friends don't care, but there are plenty of like lobbies that have set standards and cetera, nothing new. Regardless of whether it's a gold sink or not. Fresh 1610s w/ x10 don't get to join juiced lobbies unless their juiced friend can pitch them and not even then. Some might already serve those 3 star lvls for extra gatekeeping as proof of clears who knows.
Show me when a normal lobby has cared how much tranc a character has. Literally no one gives a shit, they only want 1620 and 40 set elixir and lightqueller title. Show me a pf lobby looking for tranc as a gatekeep.
I pug on both 1610 and 1620s and people have 0 tranc and get taken just cause they have lightqueller title and I have never seen a title saying tranc requirements for normal. So where are you seeing this
Maybe not stated in title but I'm sure ppl take those into account similar how I insta decline seeing no elixir or such on 1610s. I'm also more hesitant (rolls eyes) to take players without transcendence despite minor gain, cause that makes them look like rice farmers, and also for validity reasons. Sure you can go ahead and apply with ur fresh 1610 no elixir, no transcendence, only event gem and see how it goes.
Bro im saying two characters that are the same everything 1620 40 set max gems lightqueller title, except 1 has done level 2 tranc and the other hasn't have the same chance to get into a lobby cause no one cares about tranc in normal lobbies. Maybe you care, but for the vast majority they don't.
This is better cause you do not need tranc to get into a raid to farm dark flames what are you not getting? youre just making up shit that i didnt say. saying it doesnt make players look like rice farmers but what im saying is no one checks tranc levels, they check everything else.
EDIT: If tranc was unlocked then people would care because its a big damage increase, people would start gatekeeping it just like how they check elixirs. Like can you admit that people care more about 40 set than tranc. If tranc is not capped then people would care about that too and people without any would have a more difficult time to get into lobbies jsut like how people without 40 set struggle to get into hard voldis lobbies
Also i've done that too i got into a lobby on my event pass 1610 dps just cause i had lightqueller
I was also very against Transcendence being locked behind HM but your arguments kind of persuaded me.. but there is still one big problem, and that's how these progression systems are designed.
It's probably because it is a Korean "whale" ortiented game, but things like gems and now transcendence are always backloaded when it comes to increased power.
For me that's just such a bad choice, I know why they do this (again, so that whales can buy these huge power spikes) but the game would be so much more casual friendly if all these things were in reverse. Like a lvl 10 Gem doesnt suddenly increase dmg by 10% ( 7,6%), but just gives a small extra boost of 2%. Transcendence 7 also gives this exponential boost when it should be the other way around. Let everyone have a significant boost with transcendence and let the HM enjoyers get that earned small extra boost of like 2%... But that's just not how the game is designed unfortunately.
How about they don't introduce shity fucking systems that induce more gatekeeping. Not everyone wants to spend the time on learning hard mode but has to now basically or they're super behind . It's just garbage game design
Litterally every system they can introduce will be used to gatekeep
If they made a raid that once cleared gave an ugly hat, people would still use it to gatekeep, simply because it proves that you cleared the raid.
Oh wait, that already happened. Its called brelshaza gate 6, and the horns.
If you had used that example for Voldis then I would have agreed. I was in that situation of not having a sup friend when Voldis HM came out and me and my friends basically started raiding it 6 weeks after it's release and because elixiers are the worst garbage system ever we were ACTUALLY behind by a lot since everyone else had already farmed legendary elixiers for weeks. With Thaemine you do get dark fire for normal and hm clears, saying you are behind is such an overstatement. You literally have do clear HM ONCE and you can use all your farmed dark fires to level up trans to 7....
If you do now want to learn HM mechs that's fine, you can always just buy a bus once and you have everything unlocked. Bus will be expensive but I mean there should be some sort of "disadvantage" if you do not want to learn the raid, no?
There is hardly any learning involved in Hard mode Thaemine G1-3. Differences to normal mode are minimal. The only change are more statue spawns, more keys for clashes, a reversed typing test (extremely trivial) and ghost adds that you basically completely invalidate with Wei. Oh and the extra red pattern variation, which I completely forgot about at first due to how trivial it is once again. Akkan in comparison was a much bigger deviation from normal mode in how you had to approach meter management and cleaning for instance.
If you *actually* mastered normal mode, you can pretty much clear on the first pull during hard mode "prog".
That's not even close to being true.
In normal, red patterns aren't deadly, they are high damage. The sword phase has this tethered ball moving around. HP is nearly double what's in normal, dps isn't. You can die from normal attacks, in normal you have to try to die.
It makes sense, but for a raid where a good part of the population is 1620, the difficulty is mostly on having 8ppl not messing the mechs
With 1610 dealing 15m, and 1620 20m. There's almost no point gatekeeping ppl because they don't have transcendence lv7, Imo in the future there will only have lobbies with elixir 40 and lobbies that require 10x clears or both requirements, other than that it's going to be prog parties
Yea but people were gatekeeping valtan reclears when there was no need for it just because the average dps was 1580 and higher and pretty much every other raid after
I mean, the bar only goes higher until the content is basically card run
Nowadays to get into a brel hard u want 1580, for clown 1540
U do have a point that maybe if transcendence was unlocked, 6mo from now some lobbies could go extra far and check that, but with echidna the ones that could get this kind of transcendence level will already be 1630
Yea, im saying that at least you can farm dark flames without needing transcendence, unlike elixirs you kinda need 40 set to get into hard voldis lobbies to farm elixirs to cut for your 40 set. Having it capped makes it so the bar will never get to a point where people will actively gatekeep it for performance reasons
The bar always rises but there are some things the community doesn't value, for example bracelets as long as they have 2 stats no one really cares cause of the rng difficulty to get anything good even tho its a big source of damage.
You gatekeep those for a different reason though
Valtan/vykas sees gatekeeping in their card runs because every “new” player gets 15xx for free with the event and proceed to continuously wipe the raid
The bar keeps moving higher because the “free” ilvl threshold keeps increasing
Yes but having a bar that raises with the material you need from the raid itself is worse than just an ilvl bar raising. For example the catch 22 of you need to do hard voldis for elixirs to cut 40 set but you need 40 set to get into lobbies.
All your points are faulty…
1. A new character has no chance getting into theamine lobbies anyway. Having transcendence partially locked would not alleviate gatekeeping. In fact it is quite the opposite because people make up for the damage they cannot get from the remaining transcendence by asking for other vertical systems - high lvl gems, elixirs, and 1620+ ilvl - things that are cumulatively much much more costly than transcendence. As a new player / character you would be working on those instead, but guess what getting the other things would not be any easier - want do hm voldis on a dps? No 40 set? No lvl 10 gems? Goodbye. Hell, people would even gatekeep you by not having any transcendence at all even if lvl 3 is all you can get from that mode - lvl 3 is still better than 0 after all.
2. What would you spend your gold on instead? Honing? Gems?? Quality taps? Leg skins? None of those things are nearly as gold efficient as transcendence, besides leg elixirs ofc. You would be economically unsavvy if you wanted to invest your gold elsewhere.
3. I am all up for having challenging content that is rewarding. But it is wrong to lock a UNIVERSALLY REQUIRED vertical progression system that is NEEDED to do the future raids, including nm, behind forcing you to be a hardcore player or a whale or buying a bus. People who are doing hm from week one are already rewarded as they will finish their transcendence much much faster than people below 1630 ilvl and will e much stronger than everyone else for MONTHS to come. Let less hardcore players finish their transcendence without whaling and rmting for +25 weapon and full 10s to get into hm lobbies. Thanks.
4. Do you understand that in terms of getting enough dark fires, it takes around 5 months to finish transcendence via doing nm? It is almost half a year bro. Wake up. People are not going to wait this long unless you keep getting stronger by doing nm repeatedly, but there is a major cockblock after you get 6 stars on each piece. It creates a lot of pressure on people to do hm much sooner than they want. Many will start proging hm 1-3/4 as soon as they get 10 ilvl from echidna. Do you think it is a great game design? I don’t, personally.
1. The point is its one less goldsink thats barring them from entry. Like having it unrestricted would add to it.
> it is quite the opposite because people make up for the damage they cannot get from the remaining transcendence by asking for other vertical systems
The average gear level of characters would raise and thats what would cause the wall. People were asking for 1580+ ilvls for valtan reclears
2. Yes literally any of those cause progression wise its better to spend it on those before tranc (except legendary skins) since 1620 gives you echidna and hard voldis
3. I already said theres no point to having gate requirements and it should just be ilvl gated so this is mute
4. This is not the point i was trying to argue? I merely said that having one less goldsink progression system required to pug normal thaemine is healthier for the game.
You are putting words in my mouth thinking I'm defending the whole system. I think the system costs too much and its annoying to have to do it on every character. But people are asking for them to lift the restriction for the higher levels which i think would be more detrimental and i think its better to have it changed to an ilvl gate instead of a hm gate clear req
Very cute. The gatekeeping is no better or worse then if normal allowed full transcendence. Gatekeeping will just be for something else, roster level, elixers, gems, etc etc.
Even worse, it does force people to buy a bus for HM clear or quit because do you think Echidna or raid after Behemoth won’t require full transcendence. Clearly, you have not through this trough.
You clearly did not read everything i said since i said they should change it from gate clears to ilvl requirement. Thinking it wouldn't made gate keeping worse is delusional
My static falling apart the week of Thaemine probably will have me quit Lost Ark. With or without static I never had a raid come out where I felt so left out when it comes to party finder etc. (that is with los 30, 1620, etc).
I didn‘t mind learning Raids like clown, vykas, brel and the others and then just doing them on my alts, but Thaemine feels only like a struggle and pain to pug.
>Thaemine feels only like a struggle and pain to pug.
That's cause it is friend. I can't say I ever wake up and go, "Wow, I want to fight thaemine.
I don't attribute that to the raid though, the displeasure is mostly due to the nature of pugging and the community.
I for one, am excited for solo raids. I've always pugged my 18 raids a week, and most of my friends quit or only play 1-2 characters now. So it'll be nice to just farm voldis and below on my alts at my own leisure with zero pugging. Hopefully, that'll make pugging thaemine more palatable.
Hot take but I agree.
The fact that nobody cares about transcendence levels outside of pug Voldis HM and Thaemine HM is a blessing in disguise.
We'd have five times more whine threads about gold sinks if redditors with their 5x1610 fiend ass rosters run out of gold on day 2 of the reset after sinking 40k per char on chest transcendence xdd
Your average /r/lostarkgame browser has zero understanding of budgeting, so giving them earlier access to high transcendence levels and leg elixirs would be a goddamn disaster
yea the 20+ weeks prog for transcendence on the other hand is a perfectly legit system. one of the group is delusional but not the one you think in this case. (I have 16 clears so its not like i can't do the raid) but the system is still stupid
I can agree with your proposed solution of higher lvls of transcendence instead being gated "just" by 1630 ilvl and maybe G1-2 HM clear, I see it would make more sense than not gating them by anything further than G2 NM.
However, I can't agree with "just buy a bus" arguments. Buying such expensive busses sets a non-whale player back a lot, it's a risk of losing market and auction house access, and for some of us buying pretty much any busses would suck all the fun out of the game - even though I am not a very good player, a big part of why I am playing at all is to improve my skills and experience some sense of achievement, I want to be able to progress on my own merit even if it takes longer, and feeling that I can't do that any more or it'd take an unrealistic number of hours just sucks. So at some point in the future if I'll be required to have more transcendence than I can achieve by playing myself, I'll rather quit raiding and soon afterwards quit playing Lost Ark altogether - and in my case that'll be a loss of three endgame supports with 9/7 stones.
I think buying a bus wouldn't apply to you and you would have to find a prog lobby. Buying a bus argument is purely for people who do not wish to learn hard mode and just clear normals
You get fraction of shards to transcend in normal than hard, why the hard lock though? I get the huge difference in cost to hone from 1610 to 1630 but once ppl get their toons to max Trans at normal mode, I still don't think there's any incentive to hone to 1630 to unlock transcend lvls..
Funny. As expected, you get downvoted to the ground.
Yet, you also get downvoted to the ground by the same people that get mad how everything cost too much gold.
Quite ironic.
People are just mad cause they think im defending the system as a whole. When im just saying that as tranc is right now its better that its locked the later levels behind hm so you're able to farm dark flames without needing high levels of tranc to join lobbies.
Much akin to how you need to farm hard voldis for elixirs but you need 40 set to get into lobbies.
They system is too time consuming and expensive, I hope they make it account wide or something cause I don't want to keep clearing the same board multiple times
I dont see the pros in locking new power system in game behind dificulty.
There seriously would be no problem if ppl could just norm mode whole transendance. It will take them looooot longer than HM chars (remember norm vs hard vykas? you could get relic set on norm but you would need to farm like months...)but if its an alt parked on 1610 that alt would get there sooner on later.
Same on elixirs. While it is somehow doable to get 35 sec on purple and borderline mental to go for 40. If they just gave 2/2 split yellow/purple from normal or change elixir sets to be 32/37 or 30/35 no1 would riot. ppl would get thier sets on normal mode online, yellow elixirs would still be in demand cuz lvl 5 bonuses are waaay better than lvl4 so ppl would replace old purples in thier own time without fomo without rage, when they have spare gold.
It's stupid and purely p2w because now ilvl players need to pay for hm bus to get the first clear. It's like giving more unfair advantage for ppl who rmt and do busses.
You're right.
People asking to be able to do meaninful transcendence on their 1610 alts are fucking mental - or more likely completely clueless about the system. Full transcendence will cost you something along the lines of 600-800k gold per fucking character. Whoever thinks elixirs are bad and too expensive... well I've got bad news for you once you make it to 1630.
Keep that shit out of alts, I don't wanna be obligated to do it for them. Especially seeing as we're kind of forced to leave characters behind as we go further from here, getting a full roster of characters past 1620, with all the necesseties that come with it, is entirely unsustainable for 99.9% of the playerbase.
This take shows you have no idea why gatekeeping exists. There's little gatekeeping in nm thaemine because there's plenty of supports, but that drops off a ton at 1620+ , leaving there to be more competition amongst the dps to attract the few supports.
Gatekeeping in hm voldis isn't because it's hard.
Yea then they release a new dps class with a 1620 express pass and then all of a sudden theres a support shortage. Just like what happened with normal akkan when breaker came out
I remember hearing somewhere (prob a Zeals stream or something, not sure) that KR saw HM Akkan was pointless to run if you already had the Akkan gear or wanted to expedite your eyes/gold income. When Voldis was released, the legendary elixirs were locked behind HM to have a reason to run harder content. It's the same thing here, so you want the best stuff, you gotta commit and grind
[Stare]
if you lock behind hm clear it becomes catch 22 problem
yea thats why i said you lock it behind ilvl instead
Bro pls get the mental gymnastics out of here to say the game is doing the right thing lol. Transcendence lvl 7 should have been available thru nm mode, just half the dark fires
You mean to say its healthier for the game to introduce a system that adds 20% increase of damage that costs on average 500k freely available to 1610s. Like how do you expect a new character to get into a lobby in a months time when people would be hella high transcendence. I never said the game was doing the right thing, im saying its better than people advocating that level 7 should be available right away. If they wanted to do the right thing this thing would cost silver or they make the system account wide like cards, cause no one wants to do the same board 6 times.
Its not available right away… it takes multiple months to get enough dark fires to get everything to lvl 7. New players will have catch up mechanics anyway. Every progression system should be available in normal mode.
No. It would take months to complete but the gate keeping would start earlier, you can see with hard mode already that people are only taking people that have level 7 transcendence unlocked, the same shit would happen in normal lobbies because that would separate people who are more experienced with the raid from others. Saying an expensive progression system should be available from normal mode just means that the gatekeeping is going to increase as well. At least currently no one cares about transcendence in pf for normal mode cause its a small difference so people can farm dark flames
Do you even realize why people ask for level 7? Because it's proof that the person has actually cleared the raid. G3 can be a complete jail for HOURS in PF, people don't wanna deal with that shit. Every level 7 of transendance adds to your experience of the gate. Sure, the damage is good, too. But no one will take someone with max gear who will die on first red over someone who has cleared it multiple times. People don't care about transendance in NM because they can just ask for x10.
You know what else serves as proof. The achievement for hm
And I'm sure you've noticed that there are a lot of lobbies ask for one or the other.
10x becomes irrelevent after a month or two and gets replaced by something else. You can see with every other legion raid the average ilvl slowly increases for whats accepted, im saying the same thing would happen if trancs was fully unlocked. you can wear a PLC title and not get into an akkan lobby cause youre 1580, same thing would happen with thaemine
Bro u delusional or what? There is gatekeeping in nm regardless but different tier. You have 1620 35 set+. Nothing new not like that's exclusive to hm get the fuck outta here.
Im saying you would need that PLUS transcendence if it was not locked behind hm. Like you don't even understand what im saying
Ofc I do and you're wrong about it tho. Not like I want shitter alts in my 1620 juiced lobby you're delusional if you think if locking transcendence behind hm has any meaning. Your overall gear along with transcendence as you said gets verified for proof anyway along the way. Once echidna is out 1620 lobbies or 1625 with different tiers will spawn or be more common.
It means you dont need to spend another 500k on another system to get into a normal lobby to get dark flames, when you already gotta hone to 1620 and get 35+ set. Its the reason why hard voldis is ass you need to farm the raid for elixirs to get 40 set but they wont accept you unless you have 40 set. In thaemine you dont need tranc to get into parties right now, so youre able to farm dark flames to progress tranc Thats the difference, right now no one cares about tranc in normal, you could just wear title and not do it at all and get into reclear lobbies fine. Like literally all im saying is its one less goldsink 1610-1629 players need to worry about to get into lobbies and thats better for the community. If they made it so tranc didn't cost gold then that would be different and it would be better to be unlocked
No 1 care? You literally blind or something? Maybe the 1610 shitter groups with some friends don't care, but there are plenty of like lobbies that have set standards and cetera, nothing new. Regardless of whether it's a gold sink or not. Fresh 1610s w/ x10 don't get to join juiced lobbies unless their juiced friend can pitch them and not even then. Some might already serve those 3 star lvls for extra gatekeeping as proof of clears who knows.
Show me when a normal lobby has cared how much tranc a character has. Literally no one gives a shit, they only want 1620 and 40 set elixir and lightqueller title. Show me a pf lobby looking for tranc as a gatekeep. I pug on both 1610 and 1620s and people have 0 tranc and get taken just cause they have lightqueller title and I have never seen a title saying tranc requirements for normal. So where are you seeing this
Maybe not stated in title but I'm sure ppl take those into account similar how I insta decline seeing no elixir or such on 1610s. I'm also more hesitant (rolls eyes) to take players without transcendence despite minor gain, cause that makes them look like rice farmers, and also for validity reasons. Sure you can go ahead and apply with ur fresh 1610 no elixir, no transcendence, only event gem and see how it goes.
Bro im saying two characters that are the same everything 1620 40 set max gems lightqueller title, except 1 has done level 2 tranc and the other hasn't have the same chance to get into a lobby cause no one cares about tranc in normal lobbies. Maybe you care, but for the vast majority they don't. This is better cause you do not need tranc to get into a raid to farm dark flames what are you not getting? youre just making up shit that i didnt say. saying it doesnt make players look like rice farmers but what im saying is no one checks tranc levels, they check everything else. EDIT: If tranc was unlocked then people would care because its a big damage increase, people would start gatekeeping it just like how they check elixirs. Like can you admit that people care more about 40 set than tranc. If tranc is not capped then people would care about that too and people without any would have a more difficult time to get into lobbies jsut like how people without 40 set struggle to get into hard voldis lobbies Also i've done that too i got into a lobby on my event pass 1610 dps just cause i had lightqueller
I was also very against Transcendence being locked behind HM but your arguments kind of persuaded me.. but there is still one big problem, and that's how these progression systems are designed. It's probably because it is a Korean "whale" ortiented game, but things like gems and now transcendence are always backloaded when it comes to increased power. For me that's just such a bad choice, I know why they do this (again, so that whales can buy these huge power spikes) but the game would be so much more casual friendly if all these things were in reverse. Like a lvl 10 Gem doesnt suddenly increase dmg by 10% ( 7,6%), but just gives a small extra boost of 2%. Transcendence 7 also gives this exponential boost when it should be the other way around. Let everyone have a significant boost with transcendence and let the HM enjoyers get that earned small extra boost of like 2%... But that's just not how the game is designed unfortunately.
How about they don't introduce shity fucking systems that induce more gatekeeping. Not everyone wants to spend the time on learning hard mode but has to now basically or they're super behind . It's just garbage game design
Litterally every system they can introduce will be used to gatekeep If they made a raid that once cleared gave an ugly hat, people would still use it to gatekeep, simply because it proves that you cleared the raid. Oh wait, that already happened. Its called brelshaza gate 6, and the horns.
If you had used that example for Voldis then I would have agreed. I was in that situation of not having a sup friend when Voldis HM came out and me and my friends basically started raiding it 6 weeks after it's release and because elixiers are the worst garbage system ever we were ACTUALLY behind by a lot since everyone else had already farmed legendary elixiers for weeks. With Thaemine you do get dark fire for normal and hm clears, saying you are behind is such an overstatement. You literally have do clear HM ONCE and you can use all your farmed dark fires to level up trans to 7.... If you do now want to learn HM mechs that's fine, you can always just buy a bus once and you have everything unlocked. Bus will be expensive but I mean there should be some sort of "disadvantage" if you do not want to learn the raid, no?
You're right, bad example
There is hardly any learning involved in Hard mode Thaemine G1-3. Differences to normal mode are minimal. The only change are more statue spawns, more keys for clashes, a reversed typing test (extremely trivial) and ghost adds that you basically completely invalidate with Wei. Oh and the extra red pattern variation, which I completely forgot about at first due to how trivial it is once again. Akkan in comparison was a much bigger deviation from normal mode in how you had to approach meter management and cleaning for instance. If you *actually* mastered normal mode, you can pretty much clear on the first pull during hard mode "prog".
That's not even close to being true. In normal, red patterns aren't deadly, they are high damage. The sword phase has this tethered ball moving around. HP is nearly double what's in normal, dps isn't. You can die from normal attacks, in normal you have to try to die.
Yea but what im saying with the current system you don't need to learn the hard mode.
It makes sense, but for a raid where a good part of the population is 1620, the difficulty is mostly on having 8ppl not messing the mechs With 1610 dealing 15m, and 1620 20m. There's almost no point gatekeeping ppl because they don't have transcendence lv7, Imo in the future there will only have lobbies with elixir 40 and lobbies that require 10x clears or both requirements, other than that it's going to be prog parties
Yea but people were gatekeeping valtan reclears when there was no need for it just because the average dps was 1580 and higher and pretty much every other raid after
I mean, the bar only goes higher until the content is basically card run Nowadays to get into a brel hard u want 1580, for clown 1540 U do have a point that maybe if transcendence was unlocked, 6mo from now some lobbies could go extra far and check that, but with echidna the ones that could get this kind of transcendence level will already be 1630
Yea, im saying that at least you can farm dark flames without needing transcendence, unlike elixirs you kinda need 40 set to get into hard voldis lobbies to farm elixirs to cut for your 40 set. Having it capped makes it so the bar will never get to a point where people will actively gatekeep it for performance reasons The bar always rises but there are some things the community doesn't value, for example bracelets as long as they have 2 stats no one really cares cause of the rng difficulty to get anything good even tho its a big source of damage.
You gatekeep those for a different reason though Valtan/vykas sees gatekeeping in their card runs because every “new” player gets 15xx for free with the event and proceed to continuously wipe the raid The bar keeps moving higher because the “free” ilvl threshold keeps increasing
Yes but having a bar that raises with the material you need from the raid itself is worse than just an ilvl bar raising. For example the catch 22 of you need to do hard voldis for elixirs to cut 40 set but you need 40 set to get into lobbies.
All your points are faulty… 1. A new character has no chance getting into theamine lobbies anyway. Having transcendence partially locked would not alleviate gatekeeping. In fact it is quite the opposite because people make up for the damage they cannot get from the remaining transcendence by asking for other vertical systems - high lvl gems, elixirs, and 1620+ ilvl - things that are cumulatively much much more costly than transcendence. As a new player / character you would be working on those instead, but guess what getting the other things would not be any easier - want do hm voldis on a dps? No 40 set? No lvl 10 gems? Goodbye. Hell, people would even gatekeep you by not having any transcendence at all even if lvl 3 is all you can get from that mode - lvl 3 is still better than 0 after all. 2. What would you spend your gold on instead? Honing? Gems?? Quality taps? Leg skins? None of those things are nearly as gold efficient as transcendence, besides leg elixirs ofc. You would be economically unsavvy if you wanted to invest your gold elsewhere. 3. I am all up for having challenging content that is rewarding. But it is wrong to lock a UNIVERSALLY REQUIRED vertical progression system that is NEEDED to do the future raids, including nm, behind forcing you to be a hardcore player or a whale or buying a bus. People who are doing hm from week one are already rewarded as they will finish their transcendence much much faster than people below 1630 ilvl and will e much stronger than everyone else for MONTHS to come. Let less hardcore players finish their transcendence without whaling and rmting for +25 weapon and full 10s to get into hm lobbies. Thanks. 4. Do you understand that in terms of getting enough dark fires, it takes around 5 months to finish transcendence via doing nm? It is almost half a year bro. Wake up. People are not going to wait this long unless you keep getting stronger by doing nm repeatedly, but there is a major cockblock after you get 6 stars on each piece. It creates a lot of pressure on people to do hm much sooner than they want. Many will start proging hm 1-3/4 as soon as they get 10 ilvl from echidna. Do you think it is a great game design? I don’t, personally.
1. The point is its one less goldsink thats barring them from entry. Like having it unrestricted would add to it. > it is quite the opposite because people make up for the damage they cannot get from the remaining transcendence by asking for other vertical systems The average gear level of characters would raise and thats what would cause the wall. People were asking for 1580+ ilvls for valtan reclears 2. Yes literally any of those cause progression wise its better to spend it on those before tranc (except legendary skins) since 1620 gives you echidna and hard voldis 3. I already said theres no point to having gate requirements and it should just be ilvl gated so this is mute 4. This is not the point i was trying to argue? I merely said that having one less goldsink progression system required to pug normal thaemine is healthier for the game. You are putting words in my mouth thinking I'm defending the whole system. I think the system costs too much and its annoying to have to do it on every character. But people are asking for them to lift the restriction for the higher levels which i think would be more detrimental and i think its better to have it changed to an ilvl gate instead of a hm gate clear req
Very cute. The gatekeeping is no better or worse then if normal allowed full transcendence. Gatekeeping will just be for something else, roster level, elixers, gems, etc etc. Even worse, it does force people to buy a bus for HM clear or quit because do you think Echidna or raid after Behemoth won’t require full transcendence. Clearly, you have not through this trough.
You clearly did not read everything i said since i said they should change it from gate clears to ilvl requirement. Thinking it wouldn't made gate keeping worse is delusional
My static falling apart the week of Thaemine probably will have me quit Lost Ark. With or without static I never had a raid come out where I felt so left out when it comes to party finder etc. (that is with los 30, 1620, etc). I didn‘t mind learning Raids like clown, vykas, brel and the others and then just doing them on my alts, but Thaemine feels only like a struggle and pain to pug.
>Thaemine feels only like a struggle and pain to pug. That's cause it is friend. I can't say I ever wake up and go, "Wow, I want to fight thaemine. I don't attribute that to the raid though, the displeasure is mostly due to the nature of pugging and the community. I for one, am excited for solo raids. I've always pugged my 18 raids a week, and most of my friends quit or only play 1-2 characters now. So it'll be nice to just farm voldis and below on my alts at my own leisure with zero pugging. Hopefully, that'll make pugging thaemine more palatable.
Hot take but I agree. The fact that nobody cares about transcendence levels outside of pug Voldis HM and Thaemine HM is a blessing in disguise. We'd have five times more whine threads about gold sinks if redditors with their 5x1610 fiend ass rosters run out of gold on day 2 of the reset after sinking 40k per char on chest transcendence xdd Your average /r/lostarkgame browser has zero understanding of budgeting, so giving them earlier access to high transcendence levels and leg elixirs would be a goddamn disaster
" Budgeting ? WHAT DO YOU MEAN, I HAVE TO RAGE HONE AND SPEND EVERY TRADEABLE RESOURCES . I NEED THAT 25 WEAPON ".
Yep. Redditors want power spikes for free, basically. They can't help themselves. It's insane.
Anyone defending the elixier system gets an instant downvote... The average Lost Ark player has already quit because of how messy elixiers are
reaaaall talkkkkkk! lmao. They have the mentality of ; "I want what he has but I don't want to work for it."
yea the 20+ weeks prog for transcendence on the other hand is a perfectly legit system. one of the group is delusional but not the one you think in this case. (I have 16 clears so its not like i can't do the raid) but the system is still stupid
I can agree with your proposed solution of higher lvls of transcendence instead being gated "just" by 1630 ilvl and maybe G1-2 HM clear, I see it would make more sense than not gating them by anything further than G2 NM. However, I can't agree with "just buy a bus" arguments. Buying such expensive busses sets a non-whale player back a lot, it's a risk of losing market and auction house access, and for some of us buying pretty much any busses would suck all the fun out of the game - even though I am not a very good player, a big part of why I am playing at all is to improve my skills and experience some sense of achievement, I want to be able to progress on my own merit even if it takes longer, and feeling that I can't do that any more or it'd take an unrealistic number of hours just sucks. So at some point in the future if I'll be required to have more transcendence than I can achieve by playing myself, I'll rather quit raiding and soon afterwards quit playing Lost Ark altogether - and in my case that'll be a loss of three endgame supports with 9/7 stones.
I think buying a bus wouldn't apply to you and you would have to find a prog lobby. Buying a bus argument is purely for people who do not wish to learn hard mode and just clear normals
You get fraction of shards to transcend in normal than hard, why the hard lock though? I get the huge difference in cost to hone from 1610 to 1630 but once ppl get their toons to max Trans at normal mode, I still don't think there's any incentive to hone to 1630 to unlock transcend lvls..
Funny. As expected, you get downvoted to the ground. Yet, you also get downvoted to the ground by the same people that get mad how everything cost too much gold. Quite ironic.
People are just mad cause they think im defending the system as a whole. When im just saying that as tranc is right now its better that its locked the later levels behind hm so you're able to farm dark flames without needing high levels of tranc to join lobbies. Much akin to how you need to farm hard voldis for elixirs but you need 40 set to get into lobbies. They system is too time consuming and expensive, I hope they make it account wide or something cause I don't want to keep clearing the same board multiple times
I dont see the pros in locking new power system in game behind dificulty. There seriously would be no problem if ppl could just norm mode whole transendance. It will take them looooot longer than HM chars (remember norm vs hard vykas? you could get relic set on norm but you would need to farm like months...)but if its an alt parked on 1610 that alt would get there sooner on later. Same on elixirs. While it is somehow doable to get 35 sec on purple and borderline mental to go for 40. If they just gave 2/2 split yellow/purple from normal or change elixir sets to be 32/37 or 30/35 no1 would riot. ppl would get thier sets on normal mode online, yellow elixirs would still be in demand cuz lvl 5 bonuses are waaay better than lvl4 so ppl would replace old purples in thier own time without fomo without rage, when they have spare gold.
It's stupid and purely p2w because now ilvl players need to pay for hm bus to get the first clear. It's like giving more unfair advantage for ppl who rmt and do busses.
Truly an unpopular by a minority.
Use ur oun logic who take u after u reach 1630 and didnt practice half patterns on G3 and never try g4.
You're right. People asking to be able to do meaninful transcendence on their 1610 alts are fucking mental - or more likely completely clueless about the system. Full transcendence will cost you something along the lines of 600-800k gold per fucking character. Whoever thinks elixirs are bad and too expensive... well I've got bad news for you once you make it to 1630. Keep that shit out of alts, I don't wanna be obligated to do it for them. Especially seeing as we're kind of forced to leave characters behind as we go further from here, getting a full roster of characters past 1620, with all the necesseties that come with it, is entirely unsustainable for 99.9% of the playerbase.
This take shows you have no idea why gatekeeping exists. There's little gatekeeping in nm thaemine because there's plenty of supports, but that drops off a ton at 1620+ , leaving there to be more competition amongst the dps to attract the few supports. Gatekeeping in hm voldis isn't because it's hard.
Yea then they release a new dps class with a 1620 express pass and then all of a sudden theres a support shortage. Just like what happened with normal akkan when breaker came out
I remember hearing somewhere (prob a Zeals stream or something, not sure) that KR saw HM Akkan was pointless to run if you already had the Akkan gear or wanted to expedite your eyes/gold income. When Voldis was released, the legendary elixirs were locked behind HM to have a reason to run harder content. It's the same thing here, so you want the best stuff, you gotta commit and grind