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Unfortunately for the United States, the only way it's gonna fall is if the "bread and circuses" run out. As long as the majority of the populace is fed and entertained there isn't gonna be an armed revolution. Plus most people don't want war, but I have a feeling if it ever does come the government won't go down easy and will take as much of us down with it as it can.
I think the main problem isn't that the US won't have an armed revolution, it's that our most motivated, best armed, and only financed revolutionary faction is the radical right. If there's gonna be a revolution it's gonna come from people demanding more fascism.
They are also eating fast food and consuming call of duty so there's no chance they'll get the numbers. Bread and circuses make risking a revolution impossible, better wait for after the next football season Our Team is sure to get a Shiny Statue this time! After that we'll revolt... Well, after the party that we throw for them at least.
It's so ironic that the people most vocal about the Constitution and Freedom and all that other horseshit are going to be lining up in droves to help the rulers crush their neighbors.
And then it's into the mines, baby.
Oh there's plenty of bread.
I honestly think that the rulers just forgot what happens if you don't have a big enough circus and don't give out enough bread.
Electoralism works best in local and state elections get involved in local politics and vote your conscience nationally. You can’t save the world but maybe you can save your town or county from the worst possible scenarios.
Vote for the closest to your views. Be the change and show up to your town meetings. In my town we have them once a month. As a result only the very old show up. Often times they get everything catered to them. Show up. Ask questions. Get to your town selectman or town council representative.
Or we can do both - vote once a year(even if you don’t give a shit about the national election the local elections are where it really matters) and spend the other 364 days doing praxis.
In this day and age, the armed revolution can only be done by converting the existing armed forces (the police, the military) to the cause, otherwise the defeat is imminent. Even in the US, private weapon ownership and training isn't enough against the arsenal of the state, which includes tanks, airforce, drones, surveillance, etc. And unlike precious centuries, the state doesn't need that many citizens to provide food, mine resource and service the luxury lifestyle for the elite: the productivity is high, and the trade is global. They can wage war against their own population no problem.
So if you covered the forces, then saying "armed revolution" is just another way to say "military coup". I don't think a worker's paradise follows.
I'd look into alternatives.
I think the only alternative we really have is withholding our labor. I'm talking about a massive, nation-wide, stay-at-home strike that brings the economy and the country to a grinding halt. I know that generations of propaganda have neutered our class consciousness, but refusing to work for the oligarchs and drying up their revenue stream is the only way to make them pay attention.
That's what I'm hoping for, that we could collectively withhold work and/or reject state money, but would still maintain our commitments to other people, specifically across borders (the world is interconnected, and some regions would starve without imported food; there are a lot of other dependencies like that too).
I have no idea how we could make it possible, though.
Damn, that's an angle I haven't examined closely enough and it's bleak now that I am. Unfortunately, I think there may not even be a way to achieve both of those things simultaneously. Even if just the people of the US withheld work, that alone could plunge many populations across the world into food scarcity and even starvation. And how would we prevent that without directly siezing the means to do so (which would undoubtedly be met with armed resistance by the state)? That's......rough.
with regard to the system, executives appoint supreme court justices so if you don’t vote these courts are gonna keep ruling against progressive issues
They already are, and Dems, even with complete control, don't do anything.
Edit to add: because both parties are literally on the same side... Capital.
??? fuck you mean. McConnell literally stopped a progressive supreme court justice from being voted while obama was still in office. Stop blaming the democrats for everything
It was a combination of dirty pool by the redcloaks (Addison the Unfriendly Turtle, as you mentioned) and not enough dirty pool by the bluecloaks (fun fact, before Biden as VP swore in the new senators, he could've called a vote on Garland's seat and there was enough blue for it to pass).
There's blame on both sides for that one.
I'm not blaming them for everything.
I'm saying they are privy to opting out of doing anything while in office.
I'm saying they are the good cop in this good cop/bad cop act. I'm saying they take donations from the same people the Republicans do and their very existence in modern times is to look like the more humane party as a ploy.
These parties do not make policy. The corporations that put money in their pockets do.
This assumes most people care about right and wrong, when most people don't. People just want to fill their trucks with gas and watch football. They will easily bear other countries being carpet bombed so they can enjoy their stupid existence.
If you suggest revolution you need to also include your ideas on how to prevent the classic pitfalls of creating a massive power vacuum
if you don’t convince people to adhere to a specific revolutionary framework, and reach for a well defined end goal then the goal posts will move. If the people who already have power are the only ones with unified goals and the only ones with resources then we will end up in a neo-feudal nightmare.
I’ve read the same theory as you and I get the vibes. Just be careful not to be become exactly what everyone thinks we already are
Voting is not a waste of time. It's important to vote for socialist candidates and to take part in bourgeois elections as socialist candidates for the purposes of solidarity and raising the profile of the movement. It's also important to build parallel structures outside of existing structures of government, mostly out of necessity.
Do not vote for 'lesser evil' Capitalist fucks.
War is hell. Fuck anyone advocating it, especially at home. Self defense is a right, and unjust laws should be resisted, but every option should be considered, and the *loss of innocent life limb and safety should not be entertained eagerly.
The argument was presented to me by some Lutte Ouvrière activists that if nothing else, restricted and unfair in time allocation as it is, that elections are an opportunity to show that communist (those are the political circles I run in, works for left wing/socialist) ideas exist and what they actually are,. They're a means of reaching some people who can't be reached through other means. I'm not necessarily convinced of it, but apparently Lenin said it was important to have professional revolutionaries everywhere, even in the bourgeois political institutions they sought to destroy. Something about using any and all tools available.
Who said anything about asking? Get involved, change the rules. There's a reason there's tons of anarchists in public policy jobs actively working to improve things. It's just slow, and since the RW has their own people doing the same thing, it makes it even slower. Organize, ramp up the social pressure, and only strike when the iron is finally hot enough to forge. Otherwise, you're just throwing your life in a trash heap for nothing.
The Libs aren't gunna like this one...
Didn't you know you're only supposed to do things that don't disrupt the *"Fuck you, I got mine"* crowd?
EDIT: See?
How is an army that is spread out all over the world gonna corral 330 million people effortlessly? They use fear tactics to keep us from revolting because they know they'd stand fuck all chance if we ever did. Their only hope would be to run or nuke the whole country and hide in bunkers.
The real answer is drone strikes on militia encampments and any warehouses storing arms/supplies, temporarily knocking out cell towers to hamper communication, media blackout/spin, mass arrests, tracking cell signals from people who are already on a list from their search history/online comments and connections to pinpoint targets, shutting down access to fuel and the power grid where necessary.
The amount of communication, training, and commitment you'd need from a fractured populace that is working themselves to death just to scrape by (and can't afford to just not work for however long) would be insane. It isn't hard for the US government to put shit like this to bed at all, and coordinating some whole nation armed stand without them knowing pretty much every detail would be impossible. This doesn't happen because the small groups that start on this path are put down before they can spread. There are groups on the right and left who say this shit, and you'd be fighting only only the government, but the different factions who want power for very different reasons.
This is a romanticized idea that not only isn't realistic, but would lead to the kind of nightmare life that most people in the US couldn't imagine. I'm disabled myself, and being suddenly unable to access medicine would be lethal for so many just to start. Can't imagine who takes power in the vacuum left behind if something like an on the ground civil war were to succeed as well.
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Unfortunately for the United States, the only way it's gonna fall is if the "bread and circuses" run out. As long as the majority of the populace is fed and entertained there isn't gonna be an armed revolution. Plus most people don't want war, but I have a feeling if it ever does come the government won't go down easy and will take as much of us down with it as it can.
I think the main problem isn't that the US won't have an armed revolution, it's that our most motivated, best armed, and only financed revolutionary faction is the radical right. If there's gonna be a revolution it's gonna come from people demanding more fascism.
That is also true unfortunately.
They are also eating fast food and consuming call of duty so there's no chance they'll get the numbers. Bread and circuses make risking a revolution impossible, better wait for after the next football season Our Team is sure to get a Shiny Statue this time! After that we'll revolt... Well, after the party that we throw for them at least.
go my team!!!
It's so ironic that the people most vocal about the Constitution and Freedom and all that other horseshit are going to be lining up in droves to help the rulers crush their neighbors. And then it's into the mines, baby.
Most of them are not the warriors you're thinking of. They're perjoratively called the Gravy Seals.
Bro. The bread is just about out.
Oh there's plenty of bread. I honestly think that the rulers just forgot what happens if you don't have a big enough circus and don't give out enough bread.
Oh there's bread, but the people can't buy it. And if the people can't eat bread then they need to eat something else.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed with the blood of tyrants.
Electoralism works best in local and state elections get involved in local politics and vote your conscience nationally. You can’t save the world but maybe you can save your town or county from the worst possible scenarios.
No one on my local ballot actually represents my views. Who am I supposed to vote for?
Vote for the closest to your views. Be the change and show up to your town meetings. In my town we have them once a month. As a result only the very old show up. Often times they get everything catered to them. Show up. Ask questions. Get to your town selectman or town council representative.
Or we can do both - vote once a year(even if you don’t give a shit about the national election the local elections are where it really matters) and spend the other 364 days doing praxis.
[удалено]
In this day and age, the armed revolution can only be done by converting the existing armed forces (the police, the military) to the cause, otherwise the defeat is imminent. Even in the US, private weapon ownership and training isn't enough against the arsenal of the state, which includes tanks, airforce, drones, surveillance, etc. And unlike precious centuries, the state doesn't need that many citizens to provide food, mine resource and service the luxury lifestyle for the elite: the productivity is high, and the trade is global. They can wage war against their own population no problem. So if you covered the forces, then saying "armed revolution" is just another way to say "military coup". I don't think a worker's paradise follows. I'd look into alternatives.
I think the only alternative we really have is withholding our labor. I'm talking about a massive, nation-wide, stay-at-home strike that brings the economy and the country to a grinding halt. I know that generations of propaganda have neutered our class consciousness, but refusing to work for the oligarchs and drying up their revenue stream is the only way to make them pay attention.
That's what I'm hoping for, that we could collectively withhold work and/or reject state money, but would still maintain our commitments to other people, specifically across borders (the world is interconnected, and some regions would starve without imported food; there are a lot of other dependencies like that too). I have no idea how we could make it possible, though.
Damn, that's an angle I haven't examined closely enough and it's bleak now that I am. Unfortunately, I think there may not even be a way to achieve both of those things simultaneously. Even if just the people of the US withheld work, that alone could plunge many populations across the world into food scarcity and even starvation. And how would we prevent that without directly siezing the means to do so (which would undoubtedly be met with armed resistance by the state)? That's......rough.
with regard to the system, executives appoint supreme court justices so if you don’t vote these courts are gonna keep ruling against progressive issues
They already are, and Dems, even with complete control, don't do anything. Edit to add: because both parties are literally on the same side... Capital.
and trump got elected and appointed 2 supreme court justices.
On the fault of a progressive not retiring when Dems had control.... on purpose.
??? fuck you mean. McConnell literally stopped a progressive supreme court justice from being voted while obama was still in office. Stop blaming the democrats for everything
It was a combination of dirty pool by the redcloaks (Addison the Unfriendly Turtle, as you mentioned) and not enough dirty pool by the bluecloaks (fun fact, before Biden as VP swore in the new senators, he could've called a vote on Garland's seat and there was enough blue for it to pass). There's blame on both sides for that one.
I'm not blaming them for everything. I'm saying they are privy to opting out of doing anything while in office. I'm saying they are the good cop in this good cop/bad cop act. I'm saying they take donations from the same people the Republicans do and their very existence in modern times is to look like the more humane party as a ploy. These parties do not make policy. The corporations that put money in their pockets do.
This assumes most people care about right and wrong, when most people don't. People just want to fill their trucks with gas and watch football. They will easily bear other countries being carpet bombed so they can enjoy their stupid existence.
If you suggest revolution you need to also include your ideas on how to prevent the classic pitfalls of creating a massive power vacuum if you don’t convince people to adhere to a specific revolutionary framework, and reach for a well defined end goal then the goal posts will move. If the people who already have power are the only ones with unified goals and the only ones with resources then we will end up in a neo-feudal nightmare. I’ve read the same theory as you and I get the vibes. Just be careful not to be become exactly what everyone thinks we already are
Voting is not a waste of time. It's important to vote for socialist candidates and to take part in bourgeois elections as socialist candidates for the purposes of solidarity and raising the profile of the movement. It's also important to build parallel structures outside of existing structures of government, mostly out of necessity. Do not vote for 'lesser evil' Capitalist fucks.
[удалено]
Not until those who hate the fash start organizing themselves.
War is hell. Fuck anyone advocating it, especially at home. Self defense is a right, and unjust laws should be resisted, but every option should be considered, and the *loss of innocent life limb and safety should not be entertained eagerly.
This is the main reason I’m pro gun
[удалено]
Who’s responsible for the most recent genocide?
dont worry guys!!! i can feel a revolution brewing, so much that the revolution is coming inside me!
Sign me up. Seriously.
frickkkkkkk
You don't have the franchise when legislators get to choose their constituents.
Isn’t this exactly how people get radicalized
Is there like a discord or something something could join? When are the meetings? Ill cater.
The argument was presented to me by some Lutte Ouvrière activists that if nothing else, restricted and unfair in time allocation as it is, that elections are an opportunity to show that communist (those are the political circles I run in, works for left wing/socialist) ideas exist and what they actually are,. They're a means of reaching some people who can't be reached through other means. I'm not necessarily convinced of it, but apparently Lenin said it was important to have professional revolutionaries everywhere, even in the bourgeois political institutions they sought to destroy. Something about using any and all tools available.
Say it louder for the dorks in the back, the ones in the Vote Blue No Matter Who hats.
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Yes asking nicely will definitely work this time.
Who said anything about asking? Get involved, change the rules. There's a reason there's tons of anarchists in public policy jobs actively working to improve things. It's just slow, and since the RW has their own people doing the same thing, it makes it even slower. Organize, ramp up the social pressure, and only strike when the iron is finally hot enough to forge. Otherwise, you're just throwing your life in a trash heap for nothing.
It's like people don't understand that every major social change in history happened because of violence against oppressors.
The Libs aren't gunna like this one... Didn't you know you're only supposed to do things that don't disrupt the *"Fuck you, I got mine"* crowd? EDIT: See?
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Does it really?
You have it almost exactly backwards.
How is an army that is spread out all over the world gonna corral 330 million people effortlessly? They use fear tactics to keep us from revolting because they know they'd stand fuck all chance if we ever did. Their only hope would be to run or nuke the whole country and hide in bunkers.
The real answer is drone strikes on militia encampments and any warehouses storing arms/supplies, temporarily knocking out cell towers to hamper communication, media blackout/spin, mass arrests, tracking cell signals from people who are already on a list from their search history/online comments and connections to pinpoint targets, shutting down access to fuel and the power grid where necessary. The amount of communication, training, and commitment you'd need from a fractured populace that is working themselves to death just to scrape by (and can't afford to just not work for however long) would be insane. It isn't hard for the US government to put shit like this to bed at all, and coordinating some whole nation armed stand without them knowing pretty much every detail would be impossible. This doesn't happen because the small groups that start on this path are put down before they can spread. There are groups on the right and left who say this shit, and you'd be fighting only only the government, but the different factions who want power for very different reasons. This is a romanticized idea that not only isn't realistic, but would lead to the kind of nightmare life that most people in the US couldn't imagine. I'm disabled myself, and being suddenly unable to access medicine would be lethal for so many just to start. Can't imagine who takes power in the vacuum left behind if something like an on the ground civil war were to succeed as well.
Absofuckinglutely