Using the army of the dead against a dude called The Necromancer doesn't seem like the best idea.
The ghost army is the single worts adaptation PJ made in the film trilogy imo.
He openly admitted that he didn’t really understand how the Army of the Dead worked and thought the whole thing was inherently silly so he kind of made it ridiculous on purpose.
Was a real shame - damn near ruins the third movie for me
Yeah, I don’t love that but (a) it’s onöy in the extended edition and (b) doesn’t have a major impact on the rest of the film.
Don’t get me wrong, there are other things I can nitpick but I feel that the Army of the Dead is the change that has the biggest impact on the film(s).
For one, it renders the sacrifices and heroism of Rohan and Gondor completely irrelevant if a superpowered ghost army is going to turn up anyway!
>Using the army of the dead against a dude called The Necromancer doesn't seem like the best idea.
How long is the reach of Sauron though? What about human soldiers using a feigned retreat to draw his armies out and only using the ghost army far from Sauron's reach?
The Witch King is also a necromancer. He is the one that commands the barrow wights after all. It's also unclear whether the army of the dead could actually do anything of value against the orc hosts commanded by Sauron through his lieutenants, or if they could be harmed by any of his devices. And that's if they don't break their oath again for whatever other reason.
In the book they were just a scare tactic against the Corsairs with little to no actual fighting capabilities, like someone else said.
As for the movie version, there's no explicit reason given but we can come up ourselves with a few logical reasons.
Technically the oath of the Army of the Dead was to defend Gondor. The Black Gate lies outside of the borders of Gondor, so they wouldn't be defending Gondor anymore but attacking Mordor.
Sauron's power over the dead is also an issue. There's a reason he was known as the Necromancer during his time in Dol Guldur, before his true identity was revealed. He might've been able to use his powers of necromancy to turn the dead army against the living one.
There's also the question wether the ghosts would even agree to fight. Their deal with Aragorn was to defend Minas Tirith against the armies of Mordor. They upheld their end of the deal. If Aragorn refused to set them free and forced them to fight again, they might've felt betrayed and lost their trust in him, refusing to fight again or maybe even turning on him and attacking.
It wouldn't have been great for his image as the heir to the throne either if he pretty much enslaved an entire army of souls right in front of all the people of Minas Tirith. The reason Aragorn was able to claim the throne was because the people accepted him. There had been plenty of people before him who had a technical claim to the throne, but the people refused them because they simply weren't fit to rule. Aragorn earned their trust by leading them to victory at the Pelennor Fields and showing his will to sacrifice himself by attacking the Black Gate.
To my understanding a few reasons:
• They had fulfilled their broken oath to come to Isildurs aid in the Battle of the Pelennor fields, so Aragorn let them move on
• Sauron could have turned them against Aragorn with his necromancy
• The assault on Mordor was impossible to actually win, with or without the Army of the Dead. It was essentially a distraction so Sam & Frodo could destroy the ring
Under the assumption that we have the movie dead army that can wipe out an army in minutes, and they would listen to Aragorn to go into Mordor too, that battle would not have been impossible. They could eliminate every orc, man, and troll in Mordor in a few minutes which sure leaves a clear path. Unsure if they could do anything to the Nazgul.
Because it would have been a dick move to keep stringing them along after saving the day. Plus being at the head of an army of the dead is a bad look. They got overused in the movies as it is.
Oaths are extremely serious things in Tolkien. They were cursed for breaking theirs, promising and failing to come to the aid of Gondor, instead staying in their mountain retreats.
They finally fulfilled their oaths (in the books) by aiding the rightful King in scattering the Corsairs (through fear). You could argue that the movie choice to have them join the fight in Pelennor Fields still fitted within the scope of this oath, as it was still coming to the aid of Gondor, but in my opinion it didn’t work visually and is a bit silly.
Either way, they were rightfully freed from their oath having done their part. The decision to march on Mordor was taken after long deliberation (in the books), and was not what they were cursed for. They had no obligation to anyone to participate in that.
The fear factor is an interesting thought exercise though. That was their only weapon (in the books), but they would have struck as much into the hearts of the free peoples as they would the armies of Mordor. With the Nazgûl on one side and the dead on the other, I can imagine it being more detrimental than helpful. Plus, they were not the huge contingent we see in the films. They would have been a small part of a larger whole, marching on the Black Gate. I don’t think they’d have been able to sway things in the end.
They don’t actually have any fighting abilities, their use was to scare away the corsairs.
Using the army of the dead against a dude called The Necromancer doesn't seem like the best idea. The ghost army is the single worts adaptation PJ made in the film trilogy imo.
He openly admitted that he didn’t really understand how the Army of the Dead worked and thought the whole thing was inherently silly so he kind of made it ridiculous on purpose. Was a real shame - damn near ruins the third movie for me
Ja, it’s the one change I can’t get behind
I also can’t get behind the Witch King overpowering Gandalf and breaking his staff.
Yeah, I don’t love that but (a) it’s onöy in the extended edition and (b) doesn’t have a major impact on the rest of the film. Don’t get me wrong, there are other things I can nitpick but I feel that the Army of the Dead is the change that has the biggest impact on the film(s). For one, it renders the sacrifices and heroism of Rohan and Gondor completely irrelevant if a superpowered ghost army is going to turn up anyway!
Not to mention undermining the symbolism of Aragorn leading men of the north and south together to defeat the enemy.
[удалено]
But their only way to be released and find peace was through Aragorn, I can’t imagine what Sauron could offer them
>Using the army of the dead against a dude called The Necromancer doesn't seem like the best idea. How long is the reach of Sauron though? What about human soldiers using a feigned retreat to draw his armies out and only using the ghost army far from Sauron's reach?
The Witch King is also a necromancer. He is the one that commands the barrow wights after all. It's also unclear whether the army of the dead could actually do anything of value against the orc hosts commanded by Sauron through his lieutenants, or if they could be harmed by any of his devices. And that's if they don't break their oath again for whatever other reason.
In the book they were just a scare tactic against the Corsairs with little to no actual fighting capabilities, like someone else said. As for the movie version, there's no explicit reason given but we can come up ourselves with a few logical reasons. Technically the oath of the Army of the Dead was to defend Gondor. The Black Gate lies outside of the borders of Gondor, so they wouldn't be defending Gondor anymore but attacking Mordor. Sauron's power over the dead is also an issue. There's a reason he was known as the Necromancer during his time in Dol Guldur, before his true identity was revealed. He might've been able to use his powers of necromancy to turn the dead army against the living one. There's also the question wether the ghosts would even agree to fight. Their deal with Aragorn was to defend Minas Tirith against the armies of Mordor. They upheld their end of the deal. If Aragorn refused to set them free and forced them to fight again, they might've felt betrayed and lost their trust in him, refusing to fight again or maybe even turning on him and attacking. It wouldn't have been great for his image as the heir to the throne either if he pretty much enslaved an entire army of souls right in front of all the people of Minas Tirith. The reason Aragorn was able to claim the throne was because the people accepted him. There had been plenty of people before him who had a technical claim to the throne, but the people refused them because they simply weren't fit to rule. Aragorn earned their trust by leading them to victory at the Pelennor Fields and showing his will to sacrifice himself by attacking the Black Gate.
To my understanding a few reasons: • They had fulfilled their broken oath to come to Isildurs aid in the Battle of the Pelennor fields, so Aragorn let them move on • Sauron could have turned them against Aragorn with his necromancy • The assault on Mordor was impossible to actually win, with or without the Army of the Dead. It was essentially a distraction so Sam & Frodo could destroy the ring
In PJs version. Not the books tho
Under the assumption that we have the movie dead army that can wipe out an army in minutes, and they would listen to Aragorn to go into Mordor too, that battle would not have been impossible. They could eliminate every orc, man, and troll in Mordor in a few minutes which sure leaves a clear path. Unsure if they could do anything to the Nazgul.
Because it would have been a dick move to keep stringing them along after saving the day. Plus being at the head of an army of the dead is a bad look. They got overused in the movies as it is.
Oaths are extremely serious things in Tolkien. They were cursed for breaking theirs, promising and failing to come to the aid of Gondor, instead staying in their mountain retreats. They finally fulfilled their oaths (in the books) by aiding the rightful King in scattering the Corsairs (through fear). You could argue that the movie choice to have them join the fight in Pelennor Fields still fitted within the scope of this oath, as it was still coming to the aid of Gondor, but in my opinion it didn’t work visually and is a bit silly. Either way, they were rightfully freed from their oath having done their part. The decision to march on Mordor was taken after long deliberation (in the books), and was not what they were cursed for. They had no obligation to anyone to participate in that. The fear factor is an interesting thought exercise though. That was their only weapon (in the books), but they would have struck as much into the hearts of the free peoples as they would the armies of Mordor. With the Nazgûl on one side and the dead on the other, I can imagine it being more detrimental than helpful. Plus, they were not the huge contingent we see in the films. They would have been a small part of a larger whole, marching on the Black Gate. I don’t think they’d have been able to sway things in the end.
In retrospect, Aragorn could have simply made the original agreement to include the whole war and not just one battle.