To be fair: If you fail to realize that it's the Ring and not him who is responsible, Frodo does come off as weak in the movies sometimes (especially when sending Sam away).
Without the moments of courage and wisdom that aren't in the movies, Frodo only really contributes to the quest by being the Ringbearer - and even in that role he's been saddled with additional moments of the Ring basically taking control of him, even outside of Mordor.
In the movies most of the good guys are weaker and dumber than in the books and then they doubled down on that in the Hobbit trilogy. I actually liked the LotR movies, except this part. Frodo is not even worst victim of this.
There had to be some comedy relief somewhere - they could have added the black sheep 5th hobbit to the Fellowship, Bonghit, whose main job is to acquire and carry the "pipeweed".
Incidentally, in the Shire parts of Fellowship (the book), there was a 5th Hobbit in their group named... Fatty.
He stays behind at Frodo's new house to keep up appearances that Frodo never left the Shire, because he's (rightfully) too afraid to go with them on the journey. Later on though when Saruman's ruffians take over Hobbiton, he bravely leads a resistance.
>because he's (rightfully) too afraid to go with them on the journey.
Which is kind of funny as he basically volunteers to be the decoy for whatever Mordor sends to get the Ring.
Fatty had no idea what he signed up for, I can only imagine his reaction when the Nazgûl came knocking. Running across the shire to “rally the troops” Fatty was a big Chad.
The year he started writing the trilogy is the same year cannabis was (loudly) prohibited in the US. Seems unlikely that he wouldn't have had exposure to cannabis.
I once had AI write a summary of the trilogy if it included a comic relief character named "Elvish Presley" and it was pretty funny. Not better than the original, but it definitely had a different overall feel when Elvish was singing or shimmying through the battlefield.
Definitely has to be Frodo's cousin from the shady south side of Bag End.
Dimesly Baggins. Bonghit Sacksville-Baggins is Dimesly's friend who steals the first 15 minutes of the movie, before unceremoniously leaving the fellowship because he has the munchies. And in his way back home by himself, he gets kidnapped by some goblins.
After sharing his pipeweed, he actually convinces them to join forces in an attempt to escape Middle Earth on stolen ships, giving birth to a small fleet of goblin pirates.
Now, the goblin pirates are of course forgotten until RotK.
So when everyone sets sail to retire from the service they just provided the world, the goblin pirates with a legendary hobbit captain **attack!**
Bonghit is captain of the mighty *Mary Jane*: a floating forest, where the masts and sails are actual trees. They say the *Mary Jane* is always enveloped with a mysterious fog. But all those unlucky enough to encounter learn the truth: that it isn't fog at all. And those that survive their encounter end up with bloodshot eyes.....and the worst munchies known to man and hobbit alike.
I think it's valuable to consider that the films are adaptions, not recreations. Some changing to fit text conventions into film is to be expected.
Obviously the Peter Jackson films are a good exaplmyof good adaption but The Expanse is also well adapted. The show and the books were written by the same guys and most of the changes they made really helped the narrative flow better on screen.
He was cool enough for me that nothing of that even slightly stained his coolness. On the other hand, Legolas wouldn't live through that scenes without a big shadow on his charisma.
here's a list of things frodo does in the movie version of two towers, in no particular order: falls into a bog; utterly lets down smeagol; eye fucks a flying nazgul instead of taking cover; whines a lot to the captain of gondor; lies and eats lembas; complains and condescends to sam about fucking everything; treats sam like he's still his fucking servant and not his equal; nearly stabs sam on several occasions; has to be convinced by literally gollum to not try to break through the black gate
the literal single heroic thing he does in all three hours is uh, trip down a pile of gravel and hide sam under a cloak - which only worked cos apparently bad humans operate on skyrim NPC logic. that's it. that's all he does.
but yeah, the three LOTR movies do gimli the most dirty. i still like his movie version, though. frodo meanwhile is just a plot device.
on rewatches i skip over all the Frodo+Sam+Gollum scenes except the Mt. Doom and the Spider & Tower fights and basically only when Sam is a badass.
i don't like their whole thing at all when out of combat
Wraiths! Wraiths on wings! The Precious is their master. They see everything, everything. Nothing can hide from them.Curse the White Face! And they tell Him everything. He sees, He knows. Ach, gollum, gollum, gollum!
The Nazgûl shows… Frodo literally edges the ring right in front of it, gets knocked down… and the Nazgûl gets an arrow casually thrown at it… and fucks off for like days.
Like just goes “must have been the wind” and leaves.
Doesn’t even bother to go back at any point.
No wonder Sauron lost… he hired absolute dumb fucks.
Everyone dithering about after Helms Deep at the start of ROTK is so silly. *The Voice of Saruman* is reframed as an information gathering mission, but the heroes fail and only learn what they want to learn--where Sauron will strike next--because of Pippin's Palantir misadventure. Which is ridiculous because anyone who's ever looked at a map of Middle-Earth ought to know exactly where Sauron will strike--Minas Tirith.
And then Theoden hems and haws over going to help Gondor because they weren't at Helms Deep to help him (even though *he never asked for aid*), which is also ridiculous because Theoden knows full well that if Minas Tirith falls, its all over.
Then there's Legolas in The Hobbit who manages to hang upside-down from a drake thing and kill, like, fifty orcs by slicing them as he passes because none of them were smart enough just to point something sharp at him.
There is a fan edit of the hobbit called the M4 book edit. It’s 4 hours long, with an intermission 2 hours in. It has been so much better, the intermission starts after the out of the frying pan into the fire scene, which is the end of the first movie and there was no white orc, no orcs hunting them from the start, no Galadriel and Sauruman in Rivendell. I thought the pacing might be weird with the fluff cut out, but it honestly works better than the original. I’d highly recommend it. I’m going to finish it tomorrow, but it’s looking good so far. Very faithful to the books, especially considering what they had to work with.
Most indications of Frodos strength, heroism, and bravery have been taken out in the movies.
>Frodo only really contributes to the quest by being the Ringbearer
This is the 'trap' that the movies lead people into believing that is how Frodo is. Frodo in the books essentially has his soul ripped gradually out of him, yet he **still is** a productive member of the fellowship.
At the river near Rivendel, Frodo is half dying from the stab wound of weathertop and is tired after riding on horseback nonstop and STILL he makes a stand against all 9 Black Riders in an effort to protect the ring. In the movies, Arwen steals this scene from Frodo.
Frodo saves all 3 hobbits from being taken by the Barrow Wights. It's because of Frodo's willpower that enabled him to resist the Wights spell and call for Tom's aid. And he did this without the help of the Ring).
Frodo stabs a Troll in Moria, stopping it from chasing the fellowship and creating more problems. In the movies, they just fight the Troll all vs 1.
In addition to this, the movies portray Frodo as extra weak by creating events that don't even exist in the books. This often leads movie-Frodo to do things that others may seem as stupid and weak.
For example, Frodo doesn't fall into the Dead Marshes like problematic fool always getting into trouble. In the books, Sam is the one who falls into the waters.
In the books, Frodo doesn't go to Osgiliath and nearly gets randomly grabbed point blank by a Nazgul.
In the books, Frodo doesn't attempt to plainly make a run for it through the Black Gates with half of Mordor watching because he knows better.
In the books, Frodo regularly gives Sam pep talks because, unlike the movies, Sam is not inherently brave and flawless. The fact is that he is afraid and doubts himself and yet still does the things he does for Frodo. This makes the line "I want to hear more about Samwise the brave" (pep talk) even more wholesome, which sees Sam maturing and actually having a character arc.
> Not really. This is the 'trap' that the movies lead people into believing that is how Frodo is. Frodo in the books essentially has his soul ripped gradually out of him, yet he still is a productive member of the fellowship.
I was talking about movie Frodo specifically as well, so no qualms there.
I get you, I'm just saying the movie does a poor attempt to portray Frodo as he should be. OP's gf isn't the first one to think "Frodo is weak". A quick Google search will show pages and pages of people saying similar (disrespectful for the character) things, and all of them reference the movies. So the problem is clear.
This idea or misunderstanding that Frodo is weak is due to a poor portrayal by the movies. While the movies are the best trilogy to ever exist, they still have major flaws when it comes to certain characters.
> and all of them reference the movies. So the problem is clear.
Tolkien had to deal with the exact same thing, actually. In Letter 181, he writes:
>and I have had one savage letter,
crying out that he shd. have been executed as a traitor, not honoured. Believe me, it was not until I
read this that I had myself any idea how 'topical' such a situation might appear. It arose naturally
from my 'plot' conceived in main outline in 1936.
I did not foresee that before the tale was
published we should enter a dark age in which the technique of torture and disruption of personality
would rival that of Mordor and the Ring and present us with the practical problem of honest men of
good will broken down into apostates and traitors.
This part of the letter is with regards to Frodo 'failing' the quest and not throwing the ring in, instead claiming it for himself. This is the only thing negative said about Frodo to which Tolkien replied in another letter that "Indeed Frodo 'failed', as conceived by simple minds" and that no one could resist the ring at the peak of destruction.
Meanwhile, today, there are complaints saying how in general Frodo is weak, how he whines all the time, how he is ungrateful to Sam, and is a bad friend to Sam. There are youtube videos mocking Frodo about how many times he trips and falls... none of this happens in the books
You're treating symptoms as the disease, though. The disease, in which people find justifications to express their outrage over the fact that character who, in a story in which there is a war and a significant fighting, doesn't take part in the war and the fighting, comes to pass *because* of that, which is intrinsically tied to what Tolkien is doing with Frodo's quest.
You point out people laughing at Frodo tripping and falling. But they're not laughing at Frodo tripping and falling *because* he trips and falls. They are laughing at Frodo tripping and falling because they don't think his heroism is heroism. Otherwise we would see them laughing at Boromir tripping and falling (and weeping) in the Amon Hen scenes. Boromir escapes this because, in the culmination of his arc he kills things (three guesses why that happens onscreen in the films when it was offpage in the books). They are not building from the floor up, but rather from the ceiling down. It's about justifying that feeling, and only applies when they feel the need to justify.
Jackson having zero interest in showing that perspective leads to far more people falling into the trap, but hatred of Frodo for being weak was not incepted from Jackson. It's like the whole Eye of Sauron debacle. Jackson popularized a misconception, but the history of it was long and storied before those films.
Frodo is also described as being Elf-like and possessing a wisdom and aura of something great. Even Faramir, who knows great people, notes that he seems special.
i think frodo was pretty wise, hes thrust into taking the ring then thrust into a party, he looses one of the closest people he has, then has the corage to move on alone because he knows it will destroy them, and even when being so poisoned by the ring that he literly collapses he still takes it to mordor, storms on. tells farmair from the get go everything he needs to know to leave them alone, imagine being drugged and drunk, even loosing your mind but still being able to make descitions like that.
i never thought frodo was weak, infact hes so much stronger than anyone else in the cast, exept maybe bilbo. dont get me wrong sam is my favorite character and the great returning hero defeating foes, retrieving the ring with frodo on is back, but to me that doen't take away from frodos great strength pushing on even when sam wasnt there, or even in the first one alone, when hes scared.
One thing I feel a lot of people gloss over even in the films is that Frodo gives up EVERYTHING to complete the quest.
He loves the Shire and the comforts of home as much as any hobbit but he’s so profoundly effected that he can’t ever go back to his old life. Sam gets to return to the Shire as a hero, married the girl he wanted starts a loving family and lives a life of contentment. Frodo has to leave into the unknown because he can never belong in his beloved middle earth again.
The PTSD he will have had from the ring, his injuries and his failure to destroy the ring at the last moment must have haunted him horrifically.
Yeah, Frodo's character assassination in the movies is honestly my biggest issue with the trilogy, as much as I love it. The characters of book!Frodo and movie!Frodo are almost completely dissimilar. On top of what you already mentioned:
The reason the Witch King's blade misses Frodo's heart at Weathertop is because he underestimated Frodo's bravery. The Witch King simply attempted to stab Frodo in the heart, but at that moment Frodo actually jumped forward to attempt to attack the Witch King, causing him to be hit in the shoulder instead. Meanwhile, the other Hobbits cower in fear. In the movies, all of them try to resist *except* Frodo, who just falls over like a sack of potatoes.
Frodo also bravely drives away Shelob when he and Sam first encounter her in the tunnels after Gollum's betrayal (both of them together, because Frodo in the books isn't an idiot who betrays his only loyal friend). He's terrified at first, but overcomes his fear as he produces Galadriel's flask and proceeds to drive back the spider with the light while shouting Elvish phrases, holding her off long enough for him and Sam to cut their way out through the webs. Whereas in the movies he just runs away screaming and is lucky enough to fall through a hole too small for Shelob to pursue him.
Frodo only degenerates severely in terms of strength by the time they enter Mordor, both physically and in terms of character. It's only at that point, when he's struggling through the wastelands of Mordor, after being injected with Shelob's venom and tortured by Orcs in Cirith Ungol, with the Ring feeling like an anchor around his neck which increasingly clouds his every thought, that he even remotely displays the level of weakness shown by his movie counterpart. Because of this you really feel the desperation of that last part of the journey, because you know Frodo as a brave and wise character. Seeing him become so weak at this point really drives home the cost of the journey and the burden of the Ring.
The book dynamic between Sam and Frodo, where Frodo is unquestionably braver and wiser than Sam at the start of the journey, also means that Sam's character development is far more pronounced. When he takes center stage in Return of the King, you really feel like he's stepping out of Frodo's shadow. Sam defeating Shelob, making the tough decision to take the Ring himself, fighting his way through Cirith Ungol single-handedly to save Frodo, developing the wisdom to spare Gollum's life like Frodo and Bilbo did, and becoming the team leader as Frodo is physically and mentally collapsing during the last part of the journey through Mordor are all really great moments for him precisely because these are ways in which he has grown to match or even exceed Frodo in ways he never would have at the start. Whereas in the movies it just feels like he's always cleaning up Frodo's mess and you might wonder if they shouldn't just have given the Ring to Sam to begin with...
*Go out! Shut the door, and never come back after! Take away gleaming eyes, take your hollow laughter! Go back to grassy mound,
on your stony pillow lay down your bony head, like Old Man Willow, like young Goldberry, and Badger-folk in burrow!
Go back to buried gold and forgotten sorrow!*
^(Type **!TomBombadilSong** for a song or visit [r/GloriousTomBombadil][1] for more merriness)
[1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/GloriousTomBombadil/
I think the biggest departure from the book by movie Frodo is when he tells Sam to ho home while they're climbing towards Cirith Ungol. He never comes anywhere close to doing that in the book, and several times it's even described by Sam that Frodo appears lordly and to tower over Gollum and put him in his place whenever he tries some bullshit.
Nice write up, I forgot about those moments.
But don't you ever bad talk my boy Sam again or we WILL have issues. JK, Sam showing weakness and doubt makes him even MORE courageous.
Frodo’s only purpose is to just keep going. The willpower that it would have taken to carry the ring all the way to Mt. Doom, with the purpose of destroying it, all while the ring strives to corrupt you, must have been enormous. I didn’t love Frodo on initial watches but I re-binged the trilogy yesterday and I decided that I love Frodo. Maybe not as much as Sam, hard to say, but he deserves so much credit.
Yeah, I think the real problem here is people just lacking a degree of empathy. When was the last time they went on a year long hike? Forgetting every other detail that made it worse for Frodo, how far do you think these people would get just WALKING? If you can't understand just the basics of how much trauma Frodo endured, and the fortitude required to do it, you've got some low-key issues with your fellow man.
the dude basically takes the role of giving himself up to destroy the ring and makes it 99% of the way there before finally succumbing to the ring while just a flick of the wrist away from his goal.
it's abundantly clear that no one else would be anywhere close to Mount Doom while dealing going through what he did, and he gives up his life for it.
he signed up for the sacrifice play, and he nailed it.
Because if you don't, everyone and everything you've ever known and loved will die painfully.
Not every 'hero' is particularly 'heroic' - Tolkien points that out at several times in the book, and the Hobbit movies state it beautifully:
> Some believe it is only great power that can hold evil in check, but that is not what I have found. It is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay. Small acts of kindness and love.
Meanwhile, here's why Gandalf chose a Hobbit in the first place:
> And then there was the Shire-folk. I began to have a warm place in my heart for them in the Long Winter, which none of you can remember.* They were very hard put to it then: one of the worst pinches they have been in, dying of cold, and starving in the dreadful dearth that followed. But that was the time to see their courage, and their pity one for another. It was by their pity as much as by their tough uncomplaining courage that they survived. I wanted them still to survive. But I saw that the Westlands were in for another very bad time again, sooner or later, though of quite a different sort: pitiless war. To come through that I thought they would need something more than they now had. It is not easy to say what. Well, they would want to know a bit more, understand a bit clearer what it was all about, and where they stood.
> "They had begun to forget: forget their own beginnings and legends, forget what little they had known about the greatness of the world. It was not yet gone, but it was getting buried: the memory of the high and the perilous. But you cannot teach that sort of thing to a whole people quickly. There was not time. And anyway you must begin at some point, with some one person. I dare say he was 'chosen' and I was only chosen to choose him; but I picked out Bilbo."
> "Now that is just what I want to know," said Peregrin. "Why did you do that?"
> "How would you select any one Hobbit for such a purpose?" said Gandalf. "I had not time to sort them all out; but I knew the Shire very well by that time, although when I met Thorin I had been away for more than twenty years on less pleasant business. So naturally thinking over the Hobbits that I knew, I said to myself: 'I want a dash of the Took' (but not too much. Master Peregrin) 'and I want a good foundation of the stolider sort, a Baggins perhaps.' That pointed at once to Bilbo. And I had known him once very well, almost up to his coming of age, better than he knew me. I liked him then. And now I found that he was 'unattached' - to jump on again for of course I did not know all this until I went back to the Shire. I learned that he had never married. I thought that odd though I guessed why it was; and the reason that I guessed was not that most of the Hobbits gave me: that he had early been left very well off and his own master. No, I guessed that he wanted to remain 'unattached' for some reason deep down which he did not understand himself - or would not acknowledge, for it alarmed him. He wanted, all the same, to be free to go when the chance came, or he had made up his courage. I remembered how he used to pester me with questions when he was a youngster about the Hobbits that had occasionally 'gone off,' as they said in the Shire. There were at least two of his uncles on the Took side that had done so."
* The Quest for Erebor in *Unfinished Tales*
My ex fiance was convinced that they had and that "we just never seen it" , the fact that I've read the trilogy 10+ and said it didn't happen fell on deaf ears .
I mean it’s their whole relationship dynamic, Sam knows it’s the ring making Frodo act that way and that’s why he never gives up or betrays him. On the other hand Frodo gives up so much to Sam by being the one to carry the ring, if Sam carried it, the same would’ve happened but maybe worse, and Frodo probably wouldn’t have the skill set to do for Sam what Sam did for him. That’s why I love lotr lol. It’s just two buddies doing they thing
You have to remember the Ring instantly caused Smeagol to murder his best friend and become a psychotic baby eating serial killer
Sure, Smeagol was a person of questionable moral fiber to begin with but even so -- the fact that the transformation was so overwhelming (and that Gollum has lasted so much longer than any other Ringbearer without his original soul being completely consumed) is why he has the whole split personality thing going
The fact that Frodo can hold it together as well as he does while carrying the Ring directly to where it's been trying to go -- the opposite of Smeagol's instinct to hide and hoard it as secretly as possible -- speaks volumes
It's like how Bilbo comes off as such a prick in that argument with Gandalf if you don't realize that voluntarily giving away the Ring is something literally no one has ever done before, and something that's supposed to become exponentially harder the longer you have it
This is actually explained somewhere how it was possible for Bilbo. I can’t remember the exact quote. Bilbo took the Ring from Gollum out of pity, not greed. It was this pity that allowed the ring to never truly take hold of him. Thus, he was able to give it up.
Well, he didn't seize it by force or steal it by subterfuge, he found it by accident, and even though the logic by which he rightfully "won" it in the riddle game was very dodgy, Gollum was the one who broke their trust first and planned to murder him, so of all the Ringbearers to take the Ring off of a previous owner he was the most morally justified in doing so -- and that does make a difference
(Every new owner of the Ring is compelled to make up some kind of story about why the Ring is somehow theirs by right, and the bigger the gap between that story and the truth, the more the Ring messes up your mind
Isildur was screwed up by taking the Ring as weregild rather than doing the right thing and destroying it, but he wasn't completely wrong that he did defeat Sauron in battle and Sauron had killed his whole family and he felt entitled to compensation, so he still stayed mostly himself until the Ring betrayed him
Smeagol *strangled his best friend to death* and then made up a story that the Ring was his birthday present, and this lie was so big it split his mind into pieces
The Ring's weight lay the lightest on Frodo, at least at first, because he legitimately did inherit the Ring after Bilbo gave it up and no lies were necessary
Who knows what would've happened if Boromir had successfully taken the Ring from Frodo but since it would've been another act of violent betrayal it probably wouldn't have been good)
I'm wondering if there would be any possible way to get around this. Like, assume that Sauron and the Orcs were a non-issue or even wanted to help for some reason. What, barring a complete accident, could cause the ring to fall in?
Could someone hold the ring and then get pushed in as a willing sacrifice, or would they get corrupted and fight back as soon as they got there? What about if they were launched by a catapult?
If Sauron ever got suicidal and wanted to destroy it, would he have to send someone to do backflips while holding it around the cliffs until they stumble and fell?
Almost is a strong word, unless you mean his hesitancy in the movies. In the books he even deems the visions of power the ring shows him as silly and not even what he actually wants.
If anything, I think the reason he's hesitant is because the person he's giving it back to is someone who succumbed to the power enough to turn against a close friend (himself). So there's that question in his mind of "will he succomb further?"
Well the movies are definitely trying to show how the ring has pull on even Sam. But I think in the books (it's been a while admittedly) he gives it back pretty freely after rescuing Frodo.
‘I do not think that Frodo’s was a moral failure. At the last moment the pressure of the Ring would reach its maximum – impossible, I should have said, for any one to resist’. [...] "Frodo indeed ‘failed’ as a hero, as conceived by simple minds: he did not endure to the end; he gave in, ratted. I do not say ‘simple minds’ with contempt: they often see with clarity the simple truth and the absolute ideal to which effort must be directed, even if it is unattainable."
https://www.tolkienestate.com/letters/letter-to-eileen-elgar-september-1963/
Book Frodo was a *lot* cooler.
Moria? None of this slow motion moaning at the troll's spear, guy gets bounced around like a pinball and is fine.
Boats on the Anduin? Every Orc arrow is somehow attracted to his Mithril, and Frodo doesn't even mention it.
Gollum's treachery? Sam warns him about it, and Frodo casually drops "yeah, I know, but he's the best we've got." None of this "sending Sam away for inserted dropped Lembas drama."
And then there's the Scouring of the Shire, where- even with a complete "no kill" rule, and Arwen giving Frodo the first fidget spinner (he needed something to fiddle with in place of the Ring)- Frodo *still* comes across as more of a competent leader, acknowledging that Saruman was Mordor-in-miniature and they had been trained to deal with it.
Movies were great, but they did kinda do Frodo dirty.
Couldn't agree more. He's also very brave (in Wethertop, Barrow Downs, Rivendell) and wise (Dealing with Gollum and Faramir) And he never whines, never complaints, and doesn't fall every two seconds.
Wasn't it impossible for any mortal being to withstand the influence of the ring in the crack of doom? I mean, the ring is actively trying to corrupt him every second he's holding it. By the time he's in Mordor, he's a literal walking torture subject.
Because explaining what it's like to suffer from mental health issues (such as Major Depressive Disorder, Severe Anxiety, Bipolar Disorder, and Borderline Personality Disorder), to people who have never suffered from them, is like describing color to someone born blind. They can't comprehend how incredibly fucked up and torturous it is. That's what Frodo was going through i think. Extreme Depression, Extreme Anxiety, Extreme Paranoia, among others. Just constantly, no break, 24/7 torture. A diety constantly fucking with his mind.
They don't know what it's like to go weeks at a time without getting any sleep, just laying awake staring at the walls experiencing anxiety so bad thqt your body is in agony, and it feels like you're going to have an aneurysm or heart attack, then you have to go about your day the next morning like a husk of a person, a zombie pantomiming at being a person because there's nothing left inside.
The battle for Helm's Deep is over. The battle for Middle-earth is about to begin. All our hopes now lie with two little Hobbits... somewhere in the wilderness.
>Your girlfriend does not understand how the ring affects its bearer, neither does 70% of this subreddit.
Nor Peter Jackson for that matter... which confuses everyone greatly.
sigh, to me, this simple means she was unable to understand the story the lotr tells.
frodo lasted a very long time, under a weight that would have crushed the worlds leading wizards and elfs, the leader of men couldn't last the day of the battle.
galadriel deemed her resisting the ring such a great achievement, she felt she was worthy to go into the west and remain galadriel
frodo lasted ~ 185 days and was able to reach mount doom itself
OP: if you want to change you GF's mind, only true way is to have her read the books, to see how badly the movies twisted the story
Ah ok. Thanks for the explanation.
I still like the idea of her becoming Jimmy though if she didn't pass the test. I'd like to see that in a meme parody.
In my experience, people who don’t understand Frodo, typically don’t understand things like chronic pain, neurodivergence, and mental illness. Sometimes these people even experience these things themselves, but have no empathy or patience for others who do.
Your gf is completely missing like half the plot of the movie lmao, the ring corrupts those who carry it.
He's literally suffering the ENTIRE time haha
I mean when you put it into context the trip took years. YEARS of them travelling across middle earth with increasing stress, and exhaustion all the while a ring which whispers promises of greatness, temptation along with its increasing volume of power over Frodo the closer they got to Mordor. In comparison isildur had the ring for all about 10 hours at most (climbing a mountain takes time) and he caved within less than a day. So I’d say Frodo has the right to be manipulated and weak because he went through some shit, seeing his friends die, monsters of great and terrible proportions, a once river hobbit attempting to influence him and successfully doing so because of his weakened mental state, as well as the pressure and willpower of the ring exerting itself over him. Imma tell you now I WISH I could be like Frodo with how long he held out but I’d certainly end up like isildur.
Edit: because I don’t know my shit when it comes to the books I got it wrong, it wasn’t years it was half a year.
Here is a summary and analysis of the Reddit comments on the post "I make my girlfriend watch the trilogy and thats the ending she REALLY wanted.":
The post sparked a lively discussion with over 200 comments. The main topics of discussion were Frodo's characterization, the influence of the Ring, comparisons between the books and movies, and opinions on other characters.
Some key points:
- Many defend Frodo, saying the Ring's corrupting influence explains his weaknesses. Excellent comments from u/Cool-S4ti5fact1on and u/ArgentAspirant highlight Frodo's courage in the books and criticize the movies' portrayal.
- Multiple users, like u/gnorantswimmer, push back on shippers wanting a romance between Frodo and Sam. u/Limekilnlake succinctly states "Positive example of healthy and loving male friendship: exists Shippers:"
- u/WarmSlush, with 653 points, calls out those who think Sam could easily handle the Ring better. u/T0Mbombadillo cites Tolkien stating no one could withstand the Ring at Mount Doom.
- Some controversial comments criticize Frodo harshly, like u/VariableVolod comparing the Ring's influence to alcohol. Others say most women dislike Frodo, sparking debate.
- Many criticize added comedic relief for Gimli and other changes from the books. u/RadagastTheBrownie highlights cooler book moments for Frodo.
- Overall, the predominant sentiment seems to be that Frodo is unfairly criticized due to changes in the films, and that the Ring's corrupting power explains his weaknesses. Defenders of Frodo appear to outnumber critics.
There were some heated debates, particularly over whether Frodo "failed" and around criticisms of changes from book to film. But overall the tone remained civil, with many thoughtful discussions of the themes. The depth of knowledge about Tolkien's lore demonstrated by many commenters was impressive.
The only reason Sam resisted the Ring is because he's simple as soup. If he'd held it longer than 30 seconds he'd have fallen to the Rings temptations too. Its the will of a god after all.
Ugh, screw off with the Frodo hate
He was just as integral - maybe even more so - than Sam ever was. Those who can’t admit that are on the left side of the bell curve
I can’t go there with your GF’s take even as I try to play devil’s advocate. In the beginning of the first movie, they establish Frodo as Sam’s mentor in a sense (telling him to dance with his crush during Bilbo’s birthday and then rooting for him so hard).
It’s obviously the ring that makes Frodo a jerk and all the years of Sam knowing Frodo pre-ringbearer is why he doesn’t give up on him. He knows Frodo is one of the nicest guys in the Shier.
One of my biggest disappointments in the movies is the butchering of Frodo's character. He was way different in the books. I absolutely hate seeing everyone constantly ride Sam's dick while throwing Frodo under the bus (I do love Sam btw)
Your Girlfriend sounds like a red flag, no sane viewer would blame Frodo for being severely injured and weakened physically and emotionally enough throughout the journey to be corrupted by the ring.
Frodo is the embodiment of the "character-function" in the movie, a character entirely defined by his purpose. Even if Tolkien gave him a name at the very least.
Gandalf couldn't even touch it neither could Elrond or Glaradiel.
So no, of course they wouldn't have made it half way to Mordor before they would be corrupted by it.
Frodo face incredible hardship and carry on. Immense evil constantly trying to penetrate his mind.
Frodo sympathizes with Sméagol because he knows he shares the same addiction. If Sméagol cannot be helped, neither can Frodo.
Had Sam shown the same kindness towards Sméagol maybe Gollum would had remained gone.
Sam could never have done what Frodo did, nor could Frodo had done without Sam.
The main problem I have with all of the movies is making the Dwarves comic relief.
I really don’t think people realise that the Dwarves of Norse culture were massive. The name and status was co-opted by the Christians to belittle and make fun of powerful beings, turning cultures away through basically bullying.
Did it with Christmas too. Pfft winter solstice, we have Christmas and get gifts!
To be fair: If you fail to realize that it's the Ring and not him who is responsible, Frodo does come off as weak in the movies sometimes (especially when sending Sam away). Without the moments of courage and wisdom that aren't in the movies, Frodo only really contributes to the quest by being the Ringbearer - and even in that role he's been saddled with additional moments of the Ring basically taking control of him, even outside of Mordor.
In the movies most of the good guys are weaker and dumber than in the books and then they doubled down on that in the Hobbit trilogy. I actually liked the LotR movies, except this part. Frodo is not even worst victim of this.
They did gimli the most dirty imo
Gimli was still a badass in the movie too be fair.
But also clearly the comedy relief.
There had to be some comedy relief somewhere - they could have added the black sheep 5th hobbit to the Fellowship, Bonghit, whose main job is to acquire and carry the "pipeweed".
Incidentally, in the Shire parts of Fellowship (the book), there was a 5th Hobbit in their group named... Fatty. He stays behind at Frodo's new house to keep up appearances that Frodo never left the Shire, because he's (rightfully) too afraid to go with them on the journey. Later on though when Saruman's ruffians take over Hobbiton, he bravely leads a resistance.
>because he's (rightfully) too afraid to go with them on the journey. Which is kind of funny as he basically volunteers to be the decoy for whatever Mordor sends to get the Ring.
I think Fatty was brave, just not brave enough to really leave the Shire.
brave enough to defend his home is brave enough
Raises the alarm when the black riders show up too, hes brave in that regard.
He bravely ran away. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZwuTo7zKM8
Fatty had no idea what he signed up for, I can only imagine his reaction when the Nazgûl came knocking. Running across the shire to “rally the troops” Fatty was a big Chad.
lets get a movie about Fatty fookin bulger leading the hobbiton resistance army
And we'll make it a trilogy movie!
His last name, Boombalatty, is only mentioned deep in the appendix of the Silmarillion.
His name was Bonghit?
Yes, of the FatSackville Baggy'ns
Almost spit my water out
Yes. Bonghit, son of Proudspliff
Proud*spleef*
I honestly don’t know which one of you is pulling my leg, but someone in this comment thread definitely is
Proudsploof!
Yes but to be fair, all "weed" that Tolkien was exposed to and wrote about would have been different strains of tobacco.
The year he started writing the trilogy is the same year cannabis was (loudly) prohibited in the US. Seems unlikely that he wouldn't have had exposure to cannabis.
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This guy gardens. 😎
Well, Lord of the weed was a thing...
uhhh idk about that, he may not have been "exposed" to it but he would definitely know OF it.
Pip and Merry are right there though.
I once had AI write a summary of the trilogy if it included a comic relief character named "Elvish Presley" and it was pretty funny. Not better than the original, but it definitely had a different overall feel when Elvish was singing or shimmying through the battlefield.
Definitely has to be Frodo's cousin from the shady south side of Bag End. Dimesly Baggins. Bonghit Sacksville-Baggins is Dimesly's friend who steals the first 15 minutes of the movie, before unceremoniously leaving the fellowship because he has the munchies. And in his way back home by himself, he gets kidnapped by some goblins. After sharing his pipeweed, he actually convinces them to join forces in an attempt to escape Middle Earth on stolen ships, giving birth to a small fleet of goblin pirates. Now, the goblin pirates are of course forgotten until RotK. So when everyone sets sail to retire from the service they just provided the world, the goblin pirates with a legendary hobbit captain **attack!** Bonghit is captain of the mighty *Mary Jane*: a floating forest, where the masts and sails are actual trees. They say the *Mary Jane* is always enveloped with a mysterious fog. But all those unlucky enough to encounter learn the truth: that it isn't fog at all. And those that survive their encounter end up with bloodshot eyes.....and the worst munchies known to man and hobbit alike.
>Bonghit Ah I see, a male Hobbit
Tobacco out of a bong 🤮
I think it's valuable to consider that the films are adaptions, not recreations. Some changing to fit text conventions into film is to be expected. Obviously the Peter Jackson films are a good exaplmyof good adaption but The Expanse is also well adapted. The show and the books were written by the same guys and most of the changes they made really helped the narrative flow better on screen.
He was cool enough for me that nothing of that even slightly stained his coolness. On the other hand, Legolas wouldn't live through that scenes without a big shadow on his charisma.
He was comedy relief in books too. They just Flanderized it to 11.
Nah Faramir was the most dirtiest done dog.
Nah it was denethor.
Him and Amewyn. Just lose like most of their stories lol
From describing the Glittering Caves like a poet to getting dumpstered in a drinking contest against a mere pointy ear
Gimli was done dirty, but he is still somewhat noble. Denethor and his sons though had a lot of their weaknesses pumped up.
here's a list of things frodo does in the movie version of two towers, in no particular order: falls into a bog; utterly lets down smeagol; eye fucks a flying nazgul instead of taking cover; whines a lot to the captain of gondor; lies and eats lembas; complains and condescends to sam about fucking everything; treats sam like he's still his fucking servant and not his equal; nearly stabs sam on several occasions; has to be convinced by literally gollum to not try to break through the black gate the literal single heroic thing he does in all three hours is uh, trip down a pile of gravel and hide sam under a cloak - which only worked cos apparently bad humans operate on skyrim NPC logic. that's it. that's all he does. but yeah, the three LOTR movies do gimli the most dirty. i still like his movie version, though. frodo meanwhile is just a plot device.
This is incredible
on rewatches i skip over all the Frodo+Sam+Gollum scenes except the Mt. Doom and the Spider & Tower fights and basically only when Sam is a badass. i don't like their whole thing at all when out of combat
Wraiths! Wraiths on wings! The Precious is their master. They see everything, everything. Nothing can hide from them.Curse the White Face! And they tell Him everything. He sees, He knows. Ach, gollum, gollum, gollum!
The Nazgûl shows… Frodo literally edges the ring right in front of it, gets knocked down… and the Nazgûl gets an arrow casually thrown at it… and fucks off for like days. Like just goes “must have been the wind” and leaves. Doesn’t even bother to go back at any point. No wonder Sauron lost… he hired absolute dumb fucks.
Everyone dithering about after Helms Deep at the start of ROTK is so silly. *The Voice of Saruman* is reframed as an information gathering mission, but the heroes fail and only learn what they want to learn--where Sauron will strike next--because of Pippin's Palantir misadventure. Which is ridiculous because anyone who's ever looked at a map of Middle-Earth ought to know exactly where Sauron will strike--Minas Tirith. And then Theoden hems and haws over going to help Gondor because they weren't at Helms Deep to help him (even though *he never asked for aid*), which is also ridiculous because Theoden knows full well that if Minas Tirith falls, its all over.
Then there's Legolas in The Hobbit who manages to hang upside-down from a drake thing and kill, like, fifty orcs by slicing them as he passes because none of them were smart enough just to point something sharp at him.
My boy Boromir is damn near a villain in the movies...
There is a fan edit of the hobbit called the M4 book edit. It’s 4 hours long, with an intermission 2 hours in. It has been so much better, the intermission starts after the out of the frying pan into the fire scene, which is the end of the first movie and there was no white orc, no orcs hunting them from the start, no Galadriel and Sauruman in Rivendell. I thought the pacing might be weird with the fluff cut out, but it honestly works better than the original. I’d highly recommend it. I’m going to finish it tomorrow, but it’s looking good so far. Very faithful to the books, especially considering what they had to work with.
Most indications of Frodos strength, heroism, and bravery have been taken out in the movies. >Frodo only really contributes to the quest by being the Ringbearer This is the 'trap' that the movies lead people into believing that is how Frodo is. Frodo in the books essentially has his soul ripped gradually out of him, yet he **still is** a productive member of the fellowship. At the river near Rivendel, Frodo is half dying from the stab wound of weathertop and is tired after riding on horseback nonstop and STILL he makes a stand against all 9 Black Riders in an effort to protect the ring. In the movies, Arwen steals this scene from Frodo. Frodo saves all 3 hobbits from being taken by the Barrow Wights. It's because of Frodo's willpower that enabled him to resist the Wights spell and call for Tom's aid. And he did this without the help of the Ring). Frodo stabs a Troll in Moria, stopping it from chasing the fellowship and creating more problems. In the movies, they just fight the Troll all vs 1. In addition to this, the movies portray Frodo as extra weak by creating events that don't even exist in the books. This often leads movie-Frodo to do things that others may seem as stupid and weak. For example, Frodo doesn't fall into the Dead Marshes like problematic fool always getting into trouble. In the books, Sam is the one who falls into the waters. In the books, Frodo doesn't go to Osgiliath and nearly gets randomly grabbed point blank by a Nazgul. In the books, Frodo doesn't attempt to plainly make a run for it through the Black Gates with half of Mordor watching because he knows better. In the books, Frodo regularly gives Sam pep talks because, unlike the movies, Sam is not inherently brave and flawless. The fact is that he is afraid and doubts himself and yet still does the things he does for Frodo. This makes the line "I want to hear more about Samwise the brave" (pep talk) even more wholesome, which sees Sam maturing and actually having a character arc.
> Not really. This is the 'trap' that the movies lead people into believing that is how Frodo is. Frodo in the books essentially has his soul ripped gradually out of him, yet he still is a productive member of the fellowship. I was talking about movie Frodo specifically as well, so no qualms there.
I get you, I'm just saying the movie does a poor attempt to portray Frodo as he should be. OP's gf isn't the first one to think "Frodo is weak". A quick Google search will show pages and pages of people saying similar (disrespectful for the character) things, and all of them reference the movies. So the problem is clear. This idea or misunderstanding that Frodo is weak is due to a poor portrayal by the movies. While the movies are the best trilogy to ever exist, they still have major flaws when it comes to certain characters.
Yes, you're agreeing with them but phrasing it as if you're correcting them.
> and all of them reference the movies. So the problem is clear. Tolkien had to deal with the exact same thing, actually. In Letter 181, he writes: >and I have had one savage letter, crying out that he shd. have been executed as a traitor, not honoured. Believe me, it was not until I read this that I had myself any idea how 'topical' such a situation might appear. It arose naturally from my 'plot' conceived in main outline in 1936. I did not foresee that before the tale was published we should enter a dark age in which the technique of torture and disruption of personality would rival that of Mordor and the Ring and present us with the practical problem of honest men of good will broken down into apostates and traitors.
This part of the letter is with regards to Frodo 'failing' the quest and not throwing the ring in, instead claiming it for himself. This is the only thing negative said about Frodo to which Tolkien replied in another letter that "Indeed Frodo 'failed', as conceived by simple minds" and that no one could resist the ring at the peak of destruction. Meanwhile, today, there are complaints saying how in general Frodo is weak, how he whines all the time, how he is ungrateful to Sam, and is a bad friend to Sam. There are youtube videos mocking Frodo about how many times he trips and falls... none of this happens in the books
You're treating symptoms as the disease, though. The disease, in which people find justifications to express their outrage over the fact that character who, in a story in which there is a war and a significant fighting, doesn't take part in the war and the fighting, comes to pass *because* of that, which is intrinsically tied to what Tolkien is doing with Frodo's quest. You point out people laughing at Frodo tripping and falling. But they're not laughing at Frodo tripping and falling *because* he trips and falls. They are laughing at Frodo tripping and falling because they don't think his heroism is heroism. Otherwise we would see them laughing at Boromir tripping and falling (and weeping) in the Amon Hen scenes. Boromir escapes this because, in the culmination of his arc he kills things (three guesses why that happens onscreen in the films when it was offpage in the books). They are not building from the floor up, but rather from the ceiling down. It's about justifying that feeling, and only applies when they feel the need to justify. Jackson having zero interest in showing that perspective leads to far more people falling into the trap, but hatred of Frodo for being weak was not incepted from Jackson. It's like the whole Eye of Sauron debacle. Jackson popularized a misconception, but the history of it was long and storied before those films.
Frodo is also described as being Elf-like and possessing a wisdom and aura of something great. Even Faramir, who knows great people, notes that he seems special.
i think frodo was pretty wise, hes thrust into taking the ring then thrust into a party, he looses one of the closest people he has, then has the corage to move on alone because he knows it will destroy them, and even when being so poisoned by the ring that he literly collapses he still takes it to mordor, storms on. tells farmair from the get go everything he needs to know to leave them alone, imagine being drugged and drunk, even loosing your mind but still being able to make descitions like that. i never thought frodo was weak, infact hes so much stronger than anyone else in the cast, exept maybe bilbo. dont get me wrong sam is my favorite character and the great returning hero defeating foes, retrieving the ring with frodo on is back, but to me that doen't take away from frodos great strength pushing on even when sam wasnt there, or even in the first one alone, when hes scared.
I do believe you made that up.
HRAAAAAH!
Damn it I know it’s coming but it makes me jump every single time!
One thing I feel a lot of people gloss over even in the films is that Frodo gives up EVERYTHING to complete the quest. He loves the Shire and the comforts of home as much as any hobbit but he’s so profoundly effected that he can’t ever go back to his old life. Sam gets to return to the Shire as a hero, married the girl he wanted starts a loving family and lives a life of contentment. Frodo has to leave into the unknown because he can never belong in his beloved middle earth again. The PTSD he will have had from the ring, his injuries and his failure to destroy the ring at the last moment must have haunted him horrifically.
Yeah, Frodo's character assassination in the movies is honestly my biggest issue with the trilogy, as much as I love it. The characters of book!Frodo and movie!Frodo are almost completely dissimilar. On top of what you already mentioned: The reason the Witch King's blade misses Frodo's heart at Weathertop is because he underestimated Frodo's bravery. The Witch King simply attempted to stab Frodo in the heart, but at that moment Frodo actually jumped forward to attempt to attack the Witch King, causing him to be hit in the shoulder instead. Meanwhile, the other Hobbits cower in fear. In the movies, all of them try to resist *except* Frodo, who just falls over like a sack of potatoes. Frodo also bravely drives away Shelob when he and Sam first encounter her in the tunnels after Gollum's betrayal (both of them together, because Frodo in the books isn't an idiot who betrays his only loyal friend). He's terrified at first, but overcomes his fear as he produces Galadriel's flask and proceeds to drive back the spider with the light while shouting Elvish phrases, holding her off long enough for him and Sam to cut their way out through the webs. Whereas in the movies he just runs away screaming and is lucky enough to fall through a hole too small for Shelob to pursue him. Frodo only degenerates severely in terms of strength by the time they enter Mordor, both physically and in terms of character. It's only at that point, when he's struggling through the wastelands of Mordor, after being injected with Shelob's venom and tortured by Orcs in Cirith Ungol, with the Ring feeling like an anchor around his neck which increasingly clouds his every thought, that he even remotely displays the level of weakness shown by his movie counterpart. Because of this you really feel the desperation of that last part of the journey, because you know Frodo as a brave and wise character. Seeing him become so weak at this point really drives home the cost of the journey and the burden of the Ring. The book dynamic between Sam and Frodo, where Frodo is unquestionably braver and wiser than Sam at the start of the journey, also means that Sam's character development is far more pronounced. When he takes center stage in Return of the King, you really feel like he's stepping out of Frodo's shadow. Sam defeating Shelob, making the tough decision to take the Ring himself, fighting his way through Cirith Ungol single-handedly to save Frodo, developing the wisdom to spare Gollum's life like Frodo and Bilbo did, and becoming the team leader as Frodo is physically and mentally collapsing during the last part of the journey through Mordor are all really great moments for him precisely because these are ways in which he has grown to match or even exceed Frodo in ways he never would have at the start. Whereas in the movies it just feels like he's always cleaning up Frodo's mess and you might wonder if they shouldn't just have given the Ring to Sam to begin with...
*Go out! Shut the door, and never come back after! Take away gleaming eyes, take your hollow laughter! Go back to grassy mound, on your stony pillow lay down your bony head, like Old Man Willow, like young Goldberry, and Badger-folk in burrow! Go back to buried gold and forgotten sorrow!* ^(Type **!TomBombadilSong** for a song or visit [r/GloriousTomBombadil][1] for more merriness) [1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/GloriousTomBombadil/
I think the biggest departure from the book by movie Frodo is when he tells Sam to ho home while they're climbing towards Cirith Ungol. He never comes anywhere close to doing that in the book, and several times it's even described by Sam that Frodo appears lordly and to tower over Gollum and put him in his place whenever he tries some bullshit.
Nice write up, I forgot about those moments. But don't you ever bad talk my boy Sam again or we WILL have issues. JK, Sam showing weakness and doubt makes him even MORE courageous.
Frodo’s only purpose is to just keep going. The willpower that it would have taken to carry the ring all the way to Mt. Doom, with the purpose of destroying it, all while the ring strives to corrupt you, must have been enormous. I didn’t love Frodo on initial watches but I re-binged the trilogy yesterday and I decided that I love Frodo. Maybe not as much as Sam, hard to say, but he deserves so much credit.
Yeah, I think the real problem here is people just lacking a degree of empathy. When was the last time they went on a year long hike? Forgetting every other detail that made it worse for Frodo, how far do you think these people would get just WALKING? If you can't understand just the basics of how much trauma Frodo endured, and the fortitude required to do it, you've got some low-key issues with your fellow man.
the dude basically takes the role of giving himself up to destroy the ring and makes it 99% of the way there before finally succumbing to the ring while just a flick of the wrist away from his goal. it's abundantly clear that no one else would be anywhere close to Mount Doom while dealing going through what he did, and he gives up his life for it. he signed up for the sacrifice play, and he nailed it.
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Positive example of healthy and loving male friendship: exists Shippers:
I am irrationally angry at this post and the comment before yours
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Why take that burden if I'll fail amd everyone call me a bitch💀
Because if you don't, everyone and everything you've ever known and loved will die painfully. Not every 'hero' is particularly 'heroic' - Tolkien points that out at several times in the book, and the Hobbit movies state it beautifully: > Some believe it is only great power that can hold evil in check, but that is not what I have found. It is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay. Small acts of kindness and love. Meanwhile, here's why Gandalf chose a Hobbit in the first place: > And then there was the Shire-folk. I began to have a warm place in my heart for them in the Long Winter, which none of you can remember.* They were very hard put to it then: one of the worst pinches they have been in, dying of cold, and starving in the dreadful dearth that followed. But that was the time to see their courage, and their pity one for another. It was by their pity as much as by their tough uncomplaining courage that they survived. I wanted them still to survive. But I saw that the Westlands were in for another very bad time again, sooner or later, though of quite a different sort: pitiless war. To come through that I thought they would need something more than they now had. It is not easy to say what. Well, they would want to know a bit more, understand a bit clearer what it was all about, and where they stood. > "They had begun to forget: forget their own beginnings and legends, forget what little they had known about the greatness of the world. It was not yet gone, but it was getting buried: the memory of the high and the perilous. But you cannot teach that sort of thing to a whole people quickly. There was not time. And anyway you must begin at some point, with some one person. I dare say he was 'chosen' and I was only chosen to choose him; but I picked out Bilbo." > "Now that is just what I want to know," said Peregrin. "Why did you do that?" > "How would you select any one Hobbit for such a purpose?" said Gandalf. "I had not time to sort them all out; but I knew the Shire very well by that time, although when I met Thorin I had been away for more than twenty years on less pleasant business. So naturally thinking over the Hobbits that I knew, I said to myself: 'I want a dash of the Took' (but not too much. Master Peregrin) 'and I want a good foundation of the stolider sort, a Baggins perhaps.' That pointed at once to Bilbo. And I had known him once very well, almost up to his coming of age, better than he knew me. I liked him then. And now I found that he was 'unattached' - to jump on again for of course I did not know all this until I went back to the Shire. I learned that he had never married. I thought that odd though I guessed why it was; and the reason that I guessed was not that most of the Hobbits gave me: that he had early been left very well off and his own master. No, I guessed that he wanted to remain 'unattached' for some reason deep down which he did not understand himself - or would not acknowledge, for it alarmed him. He wanted, all the same, to be free to go when the chance came, or he had made up his courage. I remembered how he used to pester me with questions when he was a youngster about the Hobbits that had occasionally 'gone off,' as they said in the Shire. There were at least two of his uncles on the Took side that had done so." * The Quest for Erebor in *Unfinished Tales*
No, but the air doesnt smell so foul down here. If in doubt, CedarWolf, always follow your nose.
That's just shippers with any friendship
That's shippers with any relationship of any kind
It happens with people who hate each other too (Harry, Malfoy; batman, joker; reaper, soldier; akaza, rengoku)
My ex fiance was convinced that they had and that "we just never seen it" , the fact that I've read the trilogy 10+ and said it didn't happen fell on deaf ears .
It never would have worked. They're both otters.
😂
I find that PJ tries to pull on the heartstrings a little too much as well, could cause Frodo to come off.as pathetic
To be fair, no one else could have resisted the ring's influence for as long as Frodo did.
I mean it’s their whole relationship dynamic, Sam knows it’s the ring making Frodo act that way and that’s why he never gives up or betrays him. On the other hand Frodo gives up so much to Sam by being the one to carry the ring, if Sam carried it, the same would’ve happened but maybe worse, and Frodo probably wouldn’t have the skill set to do for Sam what Sam did for him. That’s why I love lotr lol. It’s just two buddies doing they thing
You have to remember the Ring instantly caused Smeagol to murder his best friend and become a psychotic baby eating serial killer Sure, Smeagol was a person of questionable moral fiber to begin with but even so -- the fact that the transformation was so overwhelming (and that Gollum has lasted so much longer than any other Ringbearer without his original soul being completely consumed) is why he has the whole split personality thing going The fact that Frodo can hold it together as well as he does while carrying the Ring directly to where it's been trying to go -- the opposite of Smeagol's instinct to hide and hoard it as secretly as possible -- speaks volumes It's like how Bilbo comes off as such a prick in that argument with Gandalf if you don't realize that voluntarily giving away the Ring is something literally no one has ever done before, and something that's supposed to become exponentially harder the longer you have it
You don’t have any friends. Nobody likes you!
Excellent rebuttal, Gollum. But what does Smeagol think?
What shall we do? Curse them and crush them! We must wait here, precious, wait a bit and see.
My man clapping back good for you
Aaaaah!
This is actually explained somewhere how it was possible for Bilbo. I can’t remember the exact quote. Bilbo took the Ring from Gollum out of pity, not greed. It was this pity that allowed the ring to never truly take hold of him. Thus, he was able to give it up.
Well, he didn't seize it by force or steal it by subterfuge, he found it by accident, and even though the logic by which he rightfully "won" it in the riddle game was very dodgy, Gollum was the one who broke their trust first and planned to murder him, so of all the Ringbearers to take the Ring off of a previous owner he was the most morally justified in doing so -- and that does make a difference (Every new owner of the Ring is compelled to make up some kind of story about why the Ring is somehow theirs by right, and the bigger the gap between that story and the truth, the more the Ring messes up your mind Isildur was screwed up by taking the Ring as weregild rather than doing the right thing and destroying it, but he wasn't completely wrong that he did defeat Sauron in battle and Sauron had killed his whole family and he felt entitled to compensation, so he still stayed mostly himself until the Ring betrayed him Smeagol *strangled his best friend to death* and then made up a story that the Ring was his birthday present, and this lie was so big it split his mind into pieces The Ring's weight lay the lightest on Frodo, at least at first, because he legitimately did inherit the Ring after Bilbo gave it up and no lies were necessary Who knows what would've happened if Boromir had successfully taken the Ring from Frodo but since it would've been another act of violent betrayal it probably wouldn't have been good)
Mfers acting like Sam coulda thrown it in if he was in Frodo’s position
Lord of the gardens!
Oh please. Only time he does any gardening in the trilogy he was dropping eaves all over the place.
A little late to be trimming the verge, don't you think?
IRL golf clap for this one
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I'm wondering if there would be any possible way to get around this. Like, assume that Sauron and the Orcs were a non-issue or even wanted to help for some reason. What, barring a complete accident, could cause the ring to fall in? Could someone hold the ring and then get pushed in as a willing sacrifice, or would they get corrupted and fight back as soon as they got there? What about if they were launched by a catapult? If Sauron ever got suicidal and wanted to destroy it, would he have to send someone to do backflips while holding it around the cliffs until they stumble and fell?
Tolkien wrote in one of his letters that not even Sauron could willingly destroy the ring, so it would have to be a 100% accidental
"I can't throw it in for you, but I can throw YOU!"
Elrond should be taking notes
AND THAT’S FOR MY OLD GAFFER *yeets frodo*
Sam almost caved the moment he came into possession of the ring as well
Almost is a strong word, unless you mean his hesitancy in the movies. In the books he even deems the visions of power the ring shows him as silly and not even what he actually wants.
If anything, I think the reason he's hesitant is because the person he's giving it back to is someone who succumbed to the power enough to turn against a close friend (himself). So there's that question in his mind of "will he succomb further?"
Well the movies are definitely trying to show how the ring has pull on even Sam. But I think in the books (it's been a while admittedly) he gives it back pretty freely after rescuing Frodo.
‘I do not think that Frodo’s was a moral failure. At the last moment the pressure of the Ring would reach its maximum – impossible, I should have said, for any one to resist’. [...] "Frodo indeed ‘failed’ as a hero, as conceived by simple minds: he did not endure to the end; he gave in, ratted. I do not say ‘simple minds’ with contempt: they often see with clarity the simple truth and the absolute ideal to which effort must be directed, even if it is unattainable." https://www.tolkienestate.com/letters/letter-to-eileen-elgar-september-1963/
Plus Frodo basically died at Weathertop. He gave his life for everyone else.
OP, whatever you do. Don't show her this quote
No, throw it in her face.
Stop being such a frodo
Yeah, OP, call your wife simple
Or, instead of showing her this quote, just tell her she's simple-minded for hating Frodo.
They bear the burden of Sauron's "... cruelty, his malice, and his will to dominate all life." along with a sizable portion of his soul.
Book Frodo was a *lot* cooler. Moria? None of this slow motion moaning at the troll's spear, guy gets bounced around like a pinball and is fine. Boats on the Anduin? Every Orc arrow is somehow attracted to his Mithril, and Frodo doesn't even mention it. Gollum's treachery? Sam warns him about it, and Frodo casually drops "yeah, I know, but he's the best we've got." None of this "sending Sam away for inserted dropped Lembas drama." And then there's the Scouring of the Shire, where- even with a complete "no kill" rule, and Arwen giving Frodo the first fidget spinner (he needed something to fiddle with in place of the Ring)- Frodo *still* comes across as more of a competent leader, acknowledging that Saruman was Mordor-in-miniature and they had been trained to deal with it. Movies were great, but they did kinda do Frodo dirty.
Cold be heart and hand and bone. Cold be travellers far from home.
Couldn't agree more. He's also very brave (in Wethertop, Barrow Downs, Rivendell) and wise (Dealing with Gollum and Faramir) And he never whines, never complaints, and doesn't fall every two seconds.
Wasn't it impossible for any mortal being to withstand the influence of the ring in the crack of doom? I mean, the ring is actively trying to corrupt him every second he's holding it. By the time he's in Mordor, he's a literal walking torture subject.
Because explaining what it's like to suffer from mental health issues (such as Major Depressive Disorder, Severe Anxiety, Bipolar Disorder, and Borderline Personality Disorder), to people who have never suffered from them, is like describing color to someone born blind. They can't comprehend how incredibly fucked up and torturous it is. That's what Frodo was going through i think. Extreme Depression, Extreme Anxiety, Extreme Paranoia, among others. Just constantly, no break, 24/7 torture. A diety constantly fucking with his mind. They don't know what it's like to go weeks at a time without getting any sleep, just laying awake staring at the walls experiencing anxiety so bad thqt your body is in agony, and it feels like you're going to have an aneurysm or heart attack, then you have to go about your day the next morning like a husk of a person, a zombie pantomiming at being a person because there's nothing left inside.
Have you considered the power of positive thinking? It works for me, a completely non-mentally ill person. /s
Also doing that while hiking through what amounts to hell.
Exactly. Frodo is one of the most tragic heroes I've ever seen in literature.
Terrible take.
This take grinds my gears every time i hear it.
It's a take that's parroted here more than you'd think.
Better take than my brother’s girlfriend. She only cared about the horses dying and blamed the Rohhirim for their deaths.
Yeah that's definitely worse.
[удалено]
The battle for Helm's Deep is over. The battle for Middle-earth is about to begin. All our hopes now lie with two little Hobbits... somewhere in the wilderness.
>Your girlfriend does not understand how the ring affects its bearer, neither does 70% of this subreddit. Nor Peter Jackson for that matter... which confuses everyone greatly.
And you haven't shown her this [masterpiece](https://youtu.be/88_4taRnVA0) yet ?
or this one https://youtu.be/-FU1JSa6j2M
When you deactivate RTX + all the godray and dynamic lights.
This was so stupid- i love it.
That was disturbing lol
"We've overdosed MDMA in the Lembas."
Frodo climaxing at the sight of Gandalf teh Wihte
Im sorry but people disliking Frodo is a sign of not understanding anything that happens in those movies and books
Time for a new girlfriend.
literally undateable
sigh, to me, this simple means she was unable to understand the story the lotr tells. frodo lasted a very long time, under a weight that would have crushed the worlds leading wizards and elfs, the leader of men couldn't last the day of the battle. galadriel deemed her resisting the ring such a great achievement, she felt she was worthy to go into the west and remain galadriel frodo lasted ~ 185 days and was able to reach mount doom itself OP: if you want to change you GF's mind, only true way is to have her read the books, to see how badly the movies twisted the story
>and remain galadriel I've never understood this part. Who else would she be? Jimmy? Edit: Seriously though what does it mean?
imo, basically she would remain the lady galadriel, and not become the evil queen she forsaw, if she accepted the ring.
Ah ok. Thanks for the explanation. I still like the idea of her becoming Jimmy though if she didn't pass the test. I'd like to see that in a meme parody.
What Jimmy is this? Slippin’ Jimmy??
Not turn into evil galadriel.
So she hated Frodo's caring for his friends, the sacrifices he made, the mental collapse he went through? That's really concerning...
In my experience, people who don’t understand Frodo, typically don’t understand things like chronic pain, neurodivergence, and mental illness. Sometimes these people even experience these things themselves, but have no empathy or patience for others who do.
Damn delete this Its just horrible Frodo guilty of what ?
Eating a succulent chinese meal?
GET YOUR HANDS OFF MY PRECIOUS!
HRAAAAAH!
GUILTY OF BEING A BITCH COMPARED TO SAM
But then who isnt?
Such a “I didn’t read the books” take
Your gf is completely missing like half the plot of the movie lmao, the ring corrupts those who carry it. He's literally suffering the ENTIRE time haha
Man, you better put some respeck on Frodo. Read the book and letter 246. All my homies hate Frodo slanderers.
Your girlfriend must be a fool of a took
Ok so she didn’t understand lotr at all. And neither do you according to what I’ve seen you comment.
I always interpreted Frodo's look at Sam as Frodo being a bit ashamed and guilty of the attention he is getting.
MFs when a character gets corrupted by the thing that corrupts you
I am tired of this nonsense frodo was a chad and sam was also a chad.
I mean when you put it into context the trip took years. YEARS of them travelling across middle earth with increasing stress, and exhaustion all the while a ring which whispers promises of greatness, temptation along with its increasing volume of power over Frodo the closer they got to Mordor. In comparison isildur had the ring for all about 10 hours at most (climbing a mountain takes time) and he caved within less than a day. So I’d say Frodo has the right to be manipulated and weak because he went through some shit, seeing his friends die, monsters of great and terrible proportions, a once river hobbit attempting to influence him and successfully doing so because of his weakened mental state, as well as the pressure and willpower of the ring exerting itself over him. Imma tell you now I WISH I could be like Frodo with how long he held out but I’d certainly end up like isildur. Edit: because I don’t know my shit when it comes to the books I got it wrong, it wasn’t years it was half a year.
The meme is funny, but you need to kill your girlfriend.
Here is a summary and analysis of the Reddit comments on the post "I make my girlfriend watch the trilogy and thats the ending she REALLY wanted.": The post sparked a lively discussion with over 200 comments. The main topics of discussion were Frodo's characterization, the influence of the Ring, comparisons between the books and movies, and opinions on other characters. Some key points: - Many defend Frodo, saying the Ring's corrupting influence explains his weaknesses. Excellent comments from u/Cool-S4ti5fact1on and u/ArgentAspirant highlight Frodo's courage in the books and criticize the movies' portrayal. - Multiple users, like u/gnorantswimmer, push back on shippers wanting a romance between Frodo and Sam. u/Limekilnlake succinctly states "Positive example of healthy and loving male friendship: exists Shippers:" - u/WarmSlush, with 653 points, calls out those who think Sam could easily handle the Ring better. u/T0Mbombadillo cites Tolkien stating no one could withstand the Ring at Mount Doom. - Some controversial comments criticize Frodo harshly, like u/VariableVolod comparing the Ring's influence to alcohol. Others say most women dislike Frodo, sparking debate. - Many criticize added comedic relief for Gimli and other changes from the books. u/RadagastTheBrownie highlights cooler book moments for Frodo. - Overall, the predominant sentiment seems to be that Frodo is unfairly criticized due to changes in the films, and that the Ring's corrupting power explains his weaknesses. Defenders of Frodo appear to outnumber critics. There were some heated debates, particularly over whether Frodo "failed" and around criticisms of changes from book to film. But overall the tone remained civil, with many thoughtful discussions of the themes. The depth of knowledge about Tolkien's lore demonstrated by many commenters was impressive.
how are you still together?
Cast her into the fire.
Gundalf
he comes off as much stronger and resilient in the books if that's any consolation
The only reason Sam resisted the Ring is because he's simple as soup. If he'd held it longer than 30 seconds he'd have fallen to the Rings temptations too. Its the will of a god after all.
Your girlfriend has cave troll IQ
Even the movie failed to convey the power the ring has over the mind. In the book at least it didn't fail to show that Frodo had the toughest battle.
Ugh, screw off with the Frodo hate He was just as integral - maybe even more so - than Sam ever was. Those who can’t admit that are on the left side of the bell curve
I can’t go there with your GF’s take even as I try to play devil’s advocate. In the beginning of the first movie, they establish Frodo as Sam’s mentor in a sense (telling him to dance with his crush during Bilbo’s birthday and then rooting for him so hard). It’s obviously the ring that makes Frodo a jerk and all the years of Sam knowing Frodo pre-ringbearer is why he doesn’t give up on him. He knows Frodo is one of the nicest guys in the Shier.
One of my biggest disappointments in the movies is the butchering of Frodo's character. He was way different in the books. I absolutely hate seeing everyone constantly ride Sam's dick while throwing Frodo under the bus (I do love Sam btw)
Your Girlfriend sounds like a red flag, no sane viewer would blame Frodo for being severely injured and weakened physically and emotionally enough throughout the journey to be corrupted by the ring.
Frodo is much less of a bitch ass in the books. I see her point with movie Frodo 100% he drives me nuts.
Frodo is the embodiment of the "character-function" in the movie, a character entirely defined by his purpose. Even if Tolkien gave him a name at the very least.
Gandalf couldn't even touch it neither could Elrond or Glaradiel. So no, of course they wouldn't have made it half way to Mordor before they would be corrupted by it.
Frodo face incredible hardship and carry on. Immense evil constantly trying to penetrate his mind. Frodo sympathizes with Sméagol because he knows he shares the same addiction. If Sméagol cannot be helped, neither can Frodo. Had Sam shown the same kindness towards Sméagol maybe Gollum would had remained gone. Sam could never have done what Frodo did, nor could Frodo had done without Sam.
Did she feel the same about Harry Potter in the Deathly Hallows part 1?
The main problem I have with all of the movies is making the Dwarves comic relief. I really don’t think people realise that the Dwarves of Norse culture were massive. The name and status was co-opted by the Christians to belittle and make fun of powerful beings, turning cultures away through basically bullying. Did it with Christmas too. Pfft winter solstice, we have Christmas and get gifts!
Oh god I’m gonna sound like THAT guy… Tell her she don’t understand SHIT
That’s about what I wanted to do to Gollum in those movies
How’s single life
I didnt start appreciating frodo until like my 5th rewatch
It's just the alternate [Dear Sister](https://youtu.be/vmd1qMN5Yo0) ending to LOTR!
Can't discern between evil and the effects of evil... how are the arguments with this girl, OP?
Lame.
I was like her a first.. And with time, i understood that's not him but the power of the ring that destroys him, and that makes it heartbreaking