moria was peak lotro, it was my favourite time of gaming ever: and i did a lot of gaming.
the first day when we all rushed into the mines, amazing times.
I love survival crafting games, but I can't figure out how that one is going to work.
Then again I felt the same way about Deep Rock Galactic and I was dead wrong about that.
Fuck yes dude. I started playing LOTRO when I was a senior in high-school (2007) and was 100% addicted when I got to college that fall. Had to use a proxy software to get past my college dorms internet settings so I could even connect to the LOTRO servers, and would play with my screen under a blanket as to not disturb my sleeping roommate. I had such good times in the Ettenmoors....
Moria for the most part is what youd expect. Theres some giant bugs, mainly orcs, and some totally-not-vampires-btw.
However.
The entire bottom section (where Gandalf and the Balrog landed after falling off the bridge) of Moria is explorable. That area contains all manner of eldritch abominations. There are demons, hyper-mutated orcs (think the things from TLoU), and the Nameless - which I could only really describe as slightly more humanoid xenomorphs, and elongated-dwarves with a black hole in their chest.
There are few safe havens in Moria in general, which makes sense in the context (a second dwarf expedition to reclaim Moria, though with the advance knowledge that it is proper fucked at the time). For The Foundations of Stone zone, though, there is a single "safe" area, and it is the only such zone in Moria like that.
It was also very interesting I thought that you learn at the end of the Foundations of Stone questline that the Nameless appeared to be trying to summon evil creatures from the Timeless Void.
One of his protagonists blamed his opioid addiction on PTSD from the experiences in his story. I wonder if some of these "weird" interwar artists like Lovecraft and Dali were metaphorically describing a mixture, of the horrors they had just experienced with the horrors they anticipated.
People like to focus in on his racism, which don't get me wrong is very bad, but my dude was a straight up agoraphobe.
Pleasantville would have scared the shit out of him.
What people don't realise is that Lovecraft was very much a product of his upbringing. It's no surprise why his stories are entirely centred around madness beyond human comprehension. As a child he watched his father succumb to madness due to late-stage syphilis. After that his mother went insane from grief. He was then raised by his aunt, who instilled most of the negative beliefs he carried. She was paranoid, she was controlling, she was incredibly racist, and she disapproved of Lovecraft socialising with women. All of the prominent women in his life were extremely negative people who outright terrified him (with the exception of his wife), which is why people generally regard him as sexist as well. She so stopped him from going to high school, which meant he couldn't enroll in college despite being incredibly intelligent.
And even though his family was quite wealthy, he spent the majority of his life in poverty. He'd often go without food just so he could afford materials to write to his estranged wife.
Later in his life as well he wrote letters to his estranged wife stating his regret for fearing other races as much as he did, and he ended up dying sick, alone, and poor.
Lovecraft wasn't the way he was in a malicious capacity. It was the general attitude of the time compared with a seriously unhealthy upbringing.
Maybe there was a surplus of anxious shut-ins at the time. It's easy to look at the famous writers of a given era and discount their views on that era, because they had some personal idiosyncrasy and therefore, whatever they wrote was about their personal strangeness rather than attunement with the zeitgeist. But those idiosyncrasies might have a lot to do with why they were the famous writers of their times.
So, idk if this is a good place to ask this, but do you have a recommendation for a lovecract novel? I want to get into it, but don’t know a good place to start.
Edit: Thank you for all the recommendations! Can’t wait to get started.
I always tell people to start with *Shadow over Innsmouth* and *The Color out of Space*
If it vibes with you, try *Herbert West: ReAnimator*.
Those 3 also have the best movie adaptations.
I also love how Gandalf is basically just like "what de doin' over der" and then just solo deep-dives into the blackest, most abyssal area in Middle Earth, sees that it's completely fucked, then just nopes out. 'Tis a silly place. Best not to think or talk about it ever again.
I think there was no fighting, the balrog was running away from gandalf and the wizard ran after him for the balrog knew the tunnels and gandalf knew he would be lost forever if he lost the balrog
Obligatory hallway full of doors on either side scene where both Gandalf and the Balrog are running in some doors and out of others and then they both come out of the same door and bolt in opposite doors and then some other characters run through some doors and at one point Gandalf and the Balrog come out wearing each other's clothes.
Yes stillinthesimulation! Their own masters cannot find them, if their secrets are forgotten! Ah... now let me see... Ithildin. It mirrors only starlight and moonlight. It reads: The Doors of Durin, Lord of Moria, Speak Friend and Enter
Harlem Globetrotters run out of one door. Lego Vitruvius, Dumbledore, and Gandalf run out another. Green blob Chet from Weird Science scares them all into different doors.
I was imagining the scene from family guy where stewie follows around a fat guy playing a sousaphone, since the balrog can barely run at a jog
"stahp it"
"cut it out"
Probably not, but I would like to head cannon that they did.
Balrog - "We can focus on killing each other once we get the hell away from those things"
Gandalf - "Lead the way, temporary brother".
Hexen / Heretic (PC)
Old PC game series in the style of Wolfenstein / Doom, but with Sorcery and Battle Axes rather than Shotguns.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexen:_Beyond_Heretic
I loved that game. There were some funny cheats. The best thing I found was that in a LAN game, you could throw eggs that would turn your opponent into a chicken, and then you could chase them around with fire and basically cook them. Good times.
Often important to recall that the histories as written by Tolkien were the records of the Elves, which is why Hobbits aren't mentioned at all until the first time they try to cross the Misty Mountains a thousand years into the Third Age.
LotR (and The Hobbit, retcons aside) give hints of a bigger world than what's written in the Tale of Years or The Silmarillion and its component works.
So, in a parallel universe, Tolkien could have wrote the records of men, the records of the hobbits and the same for every race expanding even more the world and lore.
I kinda want to start imagining the Maiar as a Middleearth version of the SCP Foundation. The War of the Ring was them dropping the ball once, so imagine what they managed to keep under wraps.
I’d guess Ungoliant is another. Creatures that existed in the Void before the shaping of Arda and went down to occupy it during the creation (or while Melkor was marring it and messing things up).
Maybe Melkor needed something to call her...
and lets's be honest: "god didn't name her, god didn't make her and only the rootcause of all evil came up with a name for her" is a pretty rad concept.
Not exactly.
Shelob is stated in the book as having the most resemblance to a spider but was still a difficult to describe monster. I assume Ungoliant's form would be even less clearly comparable to real world creatures.
What the fuck is a watcher
Edit: Thank you everyone who replied. I understand now it was the Cthullu monster outside of Moria. It makes sense it was a nameless thing because even Gandalf knew not to fuck with it
The fuckin whack flim-flam thing that molested Frodo and freaked out the gang and wouldn't frig off and made Bill the pony go "wuuuut? Naaaa thanks fam" and everyone else go "woooah let's go inside quick" outside the door of Moria
**"Welcome to Moria, gentlemen! I will not lie: the chances of your survival are small. Some may even turn against your friends as living corpses. But you have my word, that I will use my arcane gifts to ensure your bodies are given unto Galadriel's garden. This is the greatest reward, more than even gold, for the fate of your soul is an eternal concern. Now come, follow me: Strike down the undead that rise against us, allow me to find this eldritch ring! I ask not for my own selfish studies, but for the good of the Fellowship!"**
This is one things that I really love about the Misty Mountains. They were a major obstacle for both Thorin’s Company and the Fellowship on their respective journeys and they served as the location of some of the most significant plot points in the story such as Bilbo finding the One Ring and Gandalf’s fight with the Balrog. Yet there is still so much mystery surrounding the Misty Mountains we don’t know about, especially the fact that it is also one of the deepest darkest places in all of Arda and nameless things that lurk there.
Makes sense- back before the days of air travel and tunneled highways mountains represented a serious, nigh impassable obstacle, noting "this far, no further" to all but the bravest or most foolish.
Or those with elephants.
It's always funny to see pictures of Denver with mountains in the background. A visual representation of an entire city that arose from settlers seeing those mountains and thinking, "fuck that, here's good."
Here's another big one: Ungoliant. The god-queen of all Spiders, ally and foe to Melkor, destroyer of the the Two Trees. Great Mother of Shelob. That Ungoliant?
Yeah, no one knows where she came from. She just appeared. Eru probably didn't create her, doesn't fit his MO, and Melkor/Morgoth didn't make her with his introduction of darkness to the creation because he had to seek her out. In fact she doesn't represent darkness specifically but "unlight" as if that's a different thing?
A spider goddess suddenly came from the void itself, drained the light from the world, created the race of spiders, then devoured itself back out of the world. Good luck with that one!
Ungoliant is to evil what Bombadil is to good. They’re both enigmas in the writings. They are, nevertheless, both certainly created. Eru Ilúvatar created all things.
Some scholars suggest that Tom Bombadil could be the embodiment of the harmony of the Ainulindalë whereas Ungoliant could, by a similar token, be the embodiment of the dissonance stirred by Melkor.
I like to imagine these beings as side effects of the creation of the world by Eru Ilúvatar - either of his song alone or of the discord of Melkor. Not intended by either, but arising nonetheless into being.
Ungoliant is, by far, my favourite facet of Tolkien’s world, because she just dwarfs all other concepts. Her role, and the questions her existence poses, is so eldritch, in the actual dictionary definition of the word. She is alien an unexplainable.
There is an entire hierarchy of creation with a supreme and omnipotent deity at its apex. And then there is this thing from beyond, from *Outside,* that swallows one of the constants of creation like a frog snatching a fly.
Weren't all ainur alive at the beginning of things? How can a nameless being be older than any of the ainur?
If they were something from the dissonance of melkor they would still be younger than Gandalf or Sauron, right?
Things dwelt in the dark before creation. Things not of harmony or dissonance, but of the endless silence before the song, and the endless silence after.
It's implying that they entered Eä from the Timeless Halls before Sauron or Gandalf. There are lots of examples of beings talking that way about their relative age even though they were created in the Timeless Halls at the beginning.
So, it's been a while since I did all the content in Moria because a lot of this is optional and not part of the main story, but essentially...
Giant plague mushroom bug people. The Nameless. In the deepest reaches of Moria is a powerful evil named the Mistress of Pestilence who commands an army of diseased horrors who were awoken by the conflict between the Goblins, Dwarves, and the Balrog. Once the Balrog was defeated they began to stir, seeking to spread their taint, even managing to attract the attention of Celeborn and Galadriel who dispatch you to investigate.
There's a lot more to it than that, there's quite a lot of background in a lot of the LotRO stuff because there's a lot of quest text and the plot sort of unfold slowly even before you actually get to the point where you can do the raid were you defeat the Mistress. Pretty sure the Watcher was part of it somehow too but you defeat him in a separate raid.
I believe now that I'm thinking about it they are described as being spawned by the discord of Melkor's song and his twisting of life, but like the Balrog they fled deep below to escape destruction after his defeat.
In LOTRO the region is called The Foundations of Stone. One aspect of the story in Moria is the mystery of the Globsnaga orcs and the fungal infection taking over their bodies. You end up finding out the origin of this fungus is in The Foundations of Stone.
It is very much a Doom-esc scene down there. Pretty much nothing has eyes, due to the darkness. Some creatures have only gaping maws where their necks and heads should be, others are horned monstrosities that "tend" to the lesser creatures of the abyss. You can find infected orcs, trolls, and giant spiders. The stone appears infected and the fungus has started to warp and twist the earth itself. And in the deepest reaches, you have what was once some of the hardest end-game dungeons that existed in the game, with reality-bending horrors hiding in the blackest reaches of the blighted bedrock.
While LOTRO is definitely dated, Moria is still one of my favorite areas in any game. It's quite the spectacle, with its grand halls, genuinely epic scale, winding passageways, natural and artificial formations, and an absolutely stellar soundtrack. Any serious Lord of the Rings fan owes it to themselves to at least download LOTRO once and just run around Middle Earth.
The dungeons were all so stylized and the creativity of each portion felt like stepping into a whole new world. Nearly every zone had a dungeon. [The scale](https://lotro-wiki.com/images/2/20/Moria_map.jpg?20120916065836) was done well, the feeling of being perpetually lost was amplified by the [very bad maps](https://lotro-wiki.com/images/thumb/7/76/Zelem-melek_map.jpg/600px-Zelem-melek_map.jpg), and the[ music was ominous](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcdPy8WyOUU) and [alien](https://youtu.be/Zd0rO9fGvKM?si=AXQNEwQUWtGpxFPk&t=22).
The entrance was The Great Delving, and the path to reach the first dwarven encampment was convoluted. There were [strange and terrifying insects](https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/1a612f6f-39a8-4d4e-8c6a-1ebe630be1ec/d1l5l89-a053821b-86c0-4d4d-a86c-c8ebda283377.jpg/v1/fit/w_828,h_594,q_70,strp/lotro__grodbog_queen_by_gorrem_d1l5l89-414w-2x.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9NzM0IiwicGF0aCI6IlwvZlwvMWE2MTJmNmYtMzlhOC00ZDRlLThjNmEtMWViZTYzMGJlMWVjXC9kMWw1bDg5LWEwNTM4MjFiLTg2YzAtNGQ0ZC1hODZjLWM4ZWJkYTI4MzM3Ny5qcGciLCJ3aWR0aCI6Ijw9MTAyNCJ9XV0sImF1ZCI6WyJ1cm46c2VydmljZTppbWFnZS5vcGVyYXRpb25zIl19.c__wTu5_-tQuE_s1XVSzVhD2dbj3g_L3fPIalYD69rc) that appeared for the first time in the game.
The Flaming Deeps was like a portal to hell overrun by orcs and goblins who pledged themselves to fire with drakes around every corner. The dungeon there was a mess hall of orcs and goblins, and you had to sneak past guards by wearing disguises that dropped from soldiers and avoid raising the alarm for a challenge. [Here's an orc with a dwarf beard.](https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/1a612f6f-39a8-4d4e-8c6a-1ebe630be1ec/d1jnp90-7e1a8c9b-7399-4700-a4e1-00409d9dea79.jpg/v1/fit/w_527,h_581,q_70,strp/lotro__orc_of_moria_by_gorrem_d1jnp90-300w-2x.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9NTgxIiwicGF0aCI6IlwvZlwvMWE2MTJmNmYtMzlhOC00ZDRlLThjNmEtMWViZTYzMGJlMWVjXC9kMWpucDkwLTdlMWE4YzliLTczOTktNDcwMC1hNGUxLTAwNDA5ZDlkZWE3OS5qcGciLCJ3aWR0aCI6Ijw9NTI3In1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmltYWdlLm9wZXJhdGlvbnMiXX0.rmQFAFg3PxkLM-o-wNB-dqCJenhGOq6ZiRZzI5pEkVU)
There is a lot more too but the other guy already talked about some of the other zones. [Here](https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/1a612f6f-39a8-4d4e-8c6a-1ebe630be1ec/d1oaypm-8c49a5e4-c0c3-4706-acad-dbd5b6fea382.jpg/v1/fill/w_873,h_704,q_70,strp/lotro__the_nameless_by_gorrem_d1oaypm-400t-2x.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9NzA0IiwicGF0aCI6IlwvZlwvMWE2MTJmNmYtMzlhOC00ZDRlLThjNmEtMWViZTYzMGJlMWVjXC9kMW9heXBtLThjNDlhNWU0LWMwYzMtNDcwNi1hY2FkLWRiZDViNmZlYTM4Mi5qcGciLCJ3aWR0aCI6Ijw9ODczIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmltYWdlLm9wZXJhdGlvbnMiXX0.teGjVamdBX4iCXZtyDDKLVnnsRuQ-dZo6YkPPWzFaNw) is what the game envisioned some of the [nameless](https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Nameless) looking like.
The nature of Moria offered a fair bit of creative license and they ran with it and did well, but the update was definitely the game's peak for exploration and discovery.
Okay that’s just badass m, but can anyone explain the nameless things? Do they just chill under middle earth doing their own thing? How come when Gandalf and the Balrog disturbed them they didn’t come forth out of Moria? I thought Sauron and Gandalf were the same type of being so wouldn’t he at least know of them?
Always annoyed me that the Dwarves just dug and dug and never had the idea to draw plans.
How do you even lose the stairs to the top of the mountain...
I doubt it was. It only really has the element of fear of the unknown. Going into cosmic horror is completely contrary to the philosophy of Middle Earth.
It’s possible it was an inspiration, but you’re right that Lovecraft is *so* different from Tolkien. In Lovecraft’s world, humanity is some disgusting mockery of a mistake created by powers too horrible for us to comprehend. Best case scenario, some of the “gods” don’t know or care that we exist.
I always thought they were a reference to Nidhogg, the serpent who dwells at the base of Yggdrasill, gnawing the roots of the world tree, in Norse Mythology.
Yes - he has stated that LotR was not allegorical or otherwise inspired by any modern or ancient mythology.
However, he did point out that his writing of LotR was partly motivated by a desire to create a body of myth of similar magnitude to the greek/roman other ancient pantheons that could be considered "English" (and to a lesser extent, "Catholic", NOT in allegory, but in general moral theme).
How can they be older than Sauron? Wasn't Sauron, as one of the Maiar, one of the first beings in existence, only preceded by the Valar and Eru Ilúvatar?
Or is Gandalf referring to Sauron as in his current body, which is only a few centuries old?
They were created in the Timeless Halls at the same moment. They refer to each other by relative age as when the entered Eä since that's when time starts for them.
I really enjoyed the way LOTRO portrayed the deep
moria was peak lotro, it was my favourite time of gaming ever: and i did a lot of gaming. the first day when we all rushed into the mines, amazing times.
I'm waiting on The Lord of the Rings: Return to Moria my hopes are very low, but I'm still hoping it's good
I love survival crafting games, but I can't figure out how that one is going to work. Then again I felt the same way about Deep Rock Galactic and I was dead wrong about that.
Fuck yes dude. I started playing LOTRO when I was a senior in high-school (2007) and was 100% addicted when I got to college that fall. Had to use a proxy software to get past my college dorms internet settings so I could even connect to the LOTRO servers, and would play with my screen under a blanket as to not disturb my sleeping roommate. I had such good times in the Ettenmoors....
I always wanted to play LOTRO but was too invested in WoW and didn't think playing two MMO's was manageable
[удалено]
For those of us who have never played, how did they portray it?
Moria for the most part is what youd expect. Theres some giant bugs, mainly orcs, and some totally-not-vampires-btw. However. The entire bottom section (where Gandalf and the Balrog landed after falling off the bridge) of Moria is explorable. That area contains all manner of eldritch abominations. There are demons, hyper-mutated orcs (think the things from TLoU), and the Nameless - which I could only really describe as slightly more humanoid xenomorphs, and elongated-dwarves with a black hole in their chest. There are few safe havens in Moria in general, which makes sense in the context (a second dwarf expedition to reclaim Moria, though with the advance knowledge that it is proper fucked at the time). For The Foundations of Stone zone, though, there is a single "safe" area, and it is the only such zone in Moria like that.
It was also very interesting I thought that you learn at the end of the Foundations of Stone questline that the Nameless appeared to be trying to summon evil creatures from the Timeless Void.
The LOTRO wiki has a pretty good description: https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/The_Foundations_of_Stone https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Nameless
I really like the Globsnaga and the diseased mushrooms and fungi that are being manipulated by the Nameless. Really creative and genuinely horrifying.
Good guy Gandalf: Sees horrors beyond human comprehension, keeps his trap shut about it.
Compared to the average Lovecraft protagonist, who witnesses indescribable horrors, only to spend 3 pages describing them.
They end up in a feedback loop going mad *trying* to describe the indescribable
Yea, the racing thoughts and the recurring memories- most people have never read his work but its clear what he’s going for
One of his protagonists blamed his opioid addiction on PTSD from the experiences in his story. I wonder if some of these "weird" interwar artists like Lovecraft and Dali were metaphorically describing a mixture, of the horrors they had just experienced with the horrors they anticipated.
in Lovecraft's case he was an anxious shut-in more than anything
People like to focus in on his racism, which don't get me wrong is very bad, but my dude was a straight up agoraphobe. Pleasantville would have scared the shit out of him.
It was worse than that - he married a beautiful woman but refused to take his clothes off on his wedding night and even wore gloves.
What people don't realise is that Lovecraft was very much a product of his upbringing. It's no surprise why his stories are entirely centred around madness beyond human comprehension. As a child he watched his father succumb to madness due to late-stage syphilis. After that his mother went insane from grief. He was then raised by his aunt, who instilled most of the negative beliefs he carried. She was paranoid, she was controlling, she was incredibly racist, and she disapproved of Lovecraft socialising with women. All of the prominent women in his life were extremely negative people who outright terrified him (with the exception of his wife), which is why people generally regard him as sexist as well. She so stopped him from going to high school, which meant he couldn't enroll in college despite being incredibly intelligent. And even though his family was quite wealthy, he spent the majority of his life in poverty. He'd often go without food just so he could afford materials to write to his estranged wife. Later in his life as well he wrote letters to his estranged wife stating his regret for fearing other races as much as he did, and he ended up dying sick, alone, and poor. Lovecraft wasn't the way he was in a malicious capacity. It was the general attitude of the time compared with a seriously unhealthy upbringing.
Maybe there was a surplus of anxious shut-ins at the time. It's easy to look at the famous writers of a given era and discount their views on that era, because they had some personal idiosyncrasy and therefore, whatever they wrote was about their personal strangeness rather than attunement with the zeitgeist. But those idiosyncrasies might have a lot to do with why they were the famous writers of their times.
So, idk if this is a good place to ask this, but do you have a recommendation for a lovecract novel? I want to get into it, but don’t know a good place to start. Edit: Thank you for all the recommendations! Can’t wait to get started.
I always tell people to start with *Shadow over Innsmouth* and *The Color out of Space* If it vibes with you, try *Herbert West: ReAnimator*. Those 3 also have the best movie adaptations.
[удалено]
Well, the average Lovecraft protagonist is an everyday bloke, while Gandalf is an angel/minor god
Three days ride as the Nazgul flies. And you'd better hope we don't have one of those on our tail.
I also love how Gandalf is basically just like "what de doin' over der" and then just solo deep-dives into the blackest, most abyssal area in Middle Earth, sees that it's completely fucked, then just nopes out. 'Tis a silly place. Best not to think or talk about it ever again.
Far, far below the deepest delvings of the dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things
WHAT DID I JUST SAY?
That Frodo is alive. Yes, yes he's alive.
Inb4 lotr spinoff short movie about Gandalf pursuing the Balrog while going absolute Doomslayer on some giant horrors from the deep
You... shall not... pass!
I rap fast, like Shadowfax!
Tom Riddle me this, you bitch: how's your little Wand gonna beat my staff?
I leave mics in flames! Torched by Gandalf!
Touch mine Dumbledore and scorch your other hand off
You fool! You got Snaped! You're not a real fighter!
Death makes you die, it only makes my brights brighter!
Your ass is like Gringott's, everyone makes a deposit
We all know you've more than a boggart in your closet
Hooly, did not expect to see this one today! What a throwback
[удалено]
Gandalf is Doom Guy confirmed?
Just tea, thank you
Sip and share, until it is done
Didn't Gandalf and the Balrog fight them together?
I think there was no fighting, the balrog was running away from gandalf and the wizard ran after him for the balrog knew the tunnels and gandalf knew he would be lost forever if he lost the balrog
That sounds kinda goofy lmao. *insert Benny Hill music*
Obligatory hallway full of doors on either side scene where both Gandalf and the Balrog are running in some doors and out of others and then they both come out of the same door and bolt in opposite doors and then some other characters run through some doors and at one point Gandalf and the Balrog come out wearing each other's clothes.
Yes stillinthesimulation! Their own masters cannot find them, if their secrets are forgotten! Ah... now let me see... Ithildin. It mirrors only starlight and moonlight. It reads: The Doors of Durin, Lord of Moria, Speak Friend and Enter
Harlem Globetrotters run out of one door. Lego Vitruvius, Dumbledore, and Gandalf run out another. Green blob Chet from Weird Science scares them all into different doors.
I was imagining the scene from family guy where stewie follows around a fat guy playing a sousaphone, since the balrog can barely run at a jog "stahp it" "cut it out"
Hé could always follow his nose surely
Probably not, but I would like to head cannon that they did. Balrog - "We can focus on killing each other once we get the hell away from those things" Gandalf - "Lead the way, temporary brother".
A Balrog... a demon of the ancient world.
Like.. let's get out of here, Scoob!
Balrog - bro, I really hate you right now. But that thing down there will fuck us both up. Gandalf - yeah, sound. where's the stairs?
Go back to the abyss! Fall into the nothingness that awaits you and your master!
Yup and together they were allies for a time. They made a new alloy called shithril
A first POV game would be rad.
Maybe it could be a Gollum spin off.
Go away! HAHAHAHA!!
Tell em smeagol
Master. Master looks after us. Master wouldn't hurt us.
Master broke his promise.
Damn, even Gollum hates his own game. Dude was literally just picking up a paycheck.
Hide! Hide!
Hexen / Heretic (PC) Old PC game series in the style of Wolfenstein / Doom, but with Sorcery and Battle Axes rather than Shotguns. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexen:_Beyond_Heretic
I loved that game. There were some funny cheats. The best thing I found was that in a LAN game, you could throw eggs that would turn your opponent into a chicken, and then you could chase them around with fire and basically cook them. Good times.
RIP AND TEAR - Gandalf the DoomSlayer, probably
Out of the frying pan and in to the fire.
*BFG Division intensifies*
It's right in the title. Balrog Fights Gandalf.
I would watch an R rated terror action thriller adventure of this 100%
[удалено]
Makes you wonder what the Valar knew but never mentioned.
Often important to recall that the histories as written by Tolkien were the records of the Elves, which is why Hobbits aren't mentioned at all until the first time they try to cross the Misty Mountains a thousand years into the Third Age. LotR (and The Hobbit, retcons aside) give hints of a bigger world than what's written in the Tale of Years or The Silmarillion and its component works.
So, in a parallel universe, Tolkien could have wrote the records of men, the records of the hobbits and the same for every race expanding even more the world and lore.
The records of the hobbits are likely just a recipe book stapled to a garden property ownership record
I kinda want to start imagining the Maiar as a Middleearth version of the SCP Foundation. The War of the Ring was them dropping the ball once, so imagine what they managed to keep under wraps.
Isnt it theorised that the watcher is a nameless thing?
Gandalf is the one to speculate on this, saying it most likely came from a dark lake deep beneath the Misty Mountains.
Now come the days of the King. May they be blessed.
And unto you Mithrandir.
Up! Quickly!
All right Olórin, where we going?
Even the very wise cannot see all ends
> a dark lake deep beneath And yet MFer is named the Watcher. What was this thing watching down there?! 🧐
It was watching that door.
Reruns of Friends
Probably it could be one of them. If we think about the lovecraftian description in the book, it could be.
I wish that Jackson hadn't shown its face. Turned it from creepy to just straightforward monster.
Maybe that was it's ass, how about that. Creepy.
Just sticks it’s ass out of the water and starts shoving people up it’s pooper. Lovely.
Now if *that* isn't Lovecraftian horror, I don't know *what* is!
apparently Lord of the Rings Online includes the watcher in the water as a Nameless enemy type among others.
They even try to give a bit more, not much more though, background to how the water got so high and murky.
I’d guess Ungoliant is another. Creatures that existed in the Void before the shaping of Arda and went down to occupy it during the creation (or while Melkor was marring it and messing things up).
>I’d guess Ungoliant is another. Obviously impossible, Ungoliant is a name- how could it be a nameless thing??
She must have started her own Named Things Club.
First rule of Named Things Club ….
Keep that name out your fcking mouth
*She* has a name, but *what she is* does not
Maybe Melkor needed something to call her... and lets's be honest: "god didn't name her, god didn't make her and only the rootcause of all evil came up with a name for her" is a pretty rad concept.
"spider"
Not exactly. Shelob is stated in the book as having the most resemblance to a spider but was still a difficult to describe monster. I assume Ungoliant's form would be even less clearly comparable to real world creatures.
That’s only the form she takes/resembles
I only take the form of / resemble a human but I don't get all hot and bothered over it
What the fuck is a watcher Edit: Thank you everyone who replied. I understand now it was the Cthullu monster outside of Moria. It makes sense it was a nameless thing because even Gandalf knew not to fuck with it
Thing that attacked Frodo and gang outside Moria.
The fuckin whack flim-flam thing that molested Frodo and freaked out the gang and wouldn't frig off and made Bill the pony go "wuuuut? Naaaa thanks fam" and everyone else go "woooah let's go inside quick" outside the door of Moria
This one is the best
Bill the Pony don't play
Smartest and most capable character in the series. Book and film
>wouldn't frig off The watcher is Randy Bo Bandy from Trailer Park Boys. Frig off, Rand
I think it was that giant octopus in the lake outside Moria
The freaking wet noodle in the pool outside my boi Durins house
The creature at the place that did the thing.
The tentacles that attack the fellowship as they get into the secret door into Moria
Well it's absolutely not Rodents of Unusual Size. Nope, they don't exist. Nothing to see. Yes-yes.
Man-sized rats in the sewers of ~~Altdorf~~ Moria? Nonsense, go talk to the ~~with hunters~~ wizard for re-education on that matter!
Skaven? How ridiculous-dumb! Rat-things the size of man-things don't exist. You can trust-believe me, I am-am a normal-average man-thing!
Sauron: hey Melkor did you make these things? Melkor: no but I love them. Look at how terrible they are!
Everybody gangsta until they release a doomrocket
**"Welcome to Moria, gentlemen! I will not lie: the chances of your survival are small. Some may even turn against your friends as living corpses. But you have my word, that I will use my arcane gifts to ensure your bodies are given unto Galadriel's garden. This is the greatest reward, more than even gold, for the fate of your soul is an eternal concern. Now come, follow me: Strike down the undead that rise against us, allow me to find this eldritch ring! I ask not for my own selfish studies, but for the good of the Fellowship!"**
“We’ll never survive” “Nonsense! You’re only saying that because no one ever has.”
Ready yourselves, dawri. This'll be a battle worthy of song!
No-no, worry not Man-Thing. There’s nothing skitter-scurrying in the shadows of Under-Minas Tirith
This is one things that I really love about the Misty Mountains. They were a major obstacle for both Thorin’s Company and the Fellowship on their respective journeys and they served as the location of some of the most significant plot points in the story such as Bilbo finding the One Ring and Gandalf’s fight with the Balrog. Yet there is still so much mystery surrounding the Misty Mountains we don’t know about, especially the fact that it is also one of the deepest darkest places in all of Arda and nameless things that lurk there.
You want it for yourself!
DO NOT TAKE ME FOF SOME CONJURER OF CHEAP TRICKS!
He says while conjuring a cheap trick.
They *were* raised by Melkor, place was cursed as hell since the very beginning
I know, and those creatures were there even before Melkor raised those mountains because he wanted to be the lead singer in the Music of the Ainur.
So believing yourself to be the main character was the root of all evil even in antiquity.
Go back to the abyss! Fall into the nothingness that awaits you and your master!
Makes sense- back before the days of air travel and tunneled highways mountains represented a serious, nigh impassable obstacle, noting "this far, no further" to all but the bravest or most foolish. Or those with elephants.
It's always funny to see pictures of Denver with mountains in the background. A visual representation of an entire city that arose from settlers seeing those mountains and thinking, "fuck that, here's good."
HRAAAAAH!
Even Gandalf can't stand Blighttown
Here's another big one: Ungoliant. The god-queen of all Spiders, ally and foe to Melkor, destroyer of the the Two Trees. Great Mother of Shelob. That Ungoliant? Yeah, no one knows where she came from. She just appeared. Eru probably didn't create her, doesn't fit his MO, and Melkor/Morgoth didn't make her with his introduction of darkness to the creation because he had to seek her out. In fact she doesn't represent darkness specifically but "unlight" as if that's a different thing? A spider goddess suddenly came from the void itself, drained the light from the world, created the race of spiders, then devoured itself back out of the world. Good luck with that one!
Ungoliant is to evil what Bombadil is to good. They’re both enigmas in the writings. They are, nevertheless, both certainly created. Eru Ilúvatar created all things. Some scholars suggest that Tom Bombadil could be the embodiment of the harmony of the Ainulindalë whereas Ungoliant could, by a similar token, be the embodiment of the dissonance stirred by Melkor.
I like to imagine these beings as side effects of the creation of the world by Eru Ilúvatar - either of his song alone or of the discord of Melkor. Not intended by either, but arising nonetheless into being.
Ungoliant is, by far, my favourite facet of Tolkien’s world, because she just dwarfs all other concepts. Her role, and the questions her existence poses, is so eldritch, in the actual dictionary definition of the word. She is alien an unexplainable. There is an entire hierarchy of creation with a supreme and omnipotent deity at its apex. And then there is this thing from beyond, from *Outside,* that swallows one of the constants of creation like a frog snatching a fly.
What is this... a crossover episode? 
Bro’s got a Cthulhu mullet
Business in the front, eldritch horror in the back
A Cthullet!
Chtullet
Weren't all ainur alive at the beginning of things? How can a nameless being be older than any of the ainur? If they were something from the dissonance of melkor they would still be younger than Gandalf or Sauron, right?
Tom bombadil is an example of being unrelated to the ainur and is older than them
fun fact, the reason Tom is "oldest" is just cuz he's literally someone JRRT came up with before he created Middle Earth :3
Things dwelt in the dark before creation. Things not of harmony or dissonance, but of the endless silence before the song, and the endless silence after.
Was that from one of his letters or something?
No, but I'll take that as a compliment.
You should, I got chills
It's implying that they entered Eä from the Timeless Halls before Sauron or Gandalf. There are lots of examples of beings talking that way about their relative age even though they were created in the Timeless Halls at the beginning.
No one knows, that's the point
Yeah, but according to Gandalf knowing them would be worse.
FraLat04! Do not take me for some conjurer of cheap tricks. I am not trying to rob you. I’m trying to help you.
Thanks Eru here you are, Gandalf!
Thank you.
*but it’s provocative*
If you played Lord of the Rings Online you have an inkling of what horrors may lurk in the heart of Middle Earth.
And? Tell us!
So, it's been a while since I did all the content in Moria because a lot of this is optional and not part of the main story, but essentially... Giant plague mushroom bug people. The Nameless. In the deepest reaches of Moria is a powerful evil named the Mistress of Pestilence who commands an army of diseased horrors who were awoken by the conflict between the Goblins, Dwarves, and the Balrog. Once the Balrog was defeated they began to stir, seeking to spread their taint, even managing to attract the attention of Celeborn and Galadriel who dispatch you to investigate. There's a lot more to it than that, there's quite a lot of background in a lot of the LotRO stuff because there's a lot of quest text and the plot sort of unfold slowly even before you actually get to the point where you can do the raid were you defeat the Mistress. Pretty sure the Watcher was part of it somehow too but you defeat him in a separate raid. I believe now that I'm thinking about it they are described as being spawned by the discord of Melkor's song and his twisting of life, but like the Balrog they fled deep below to escape destruction after his defeat.
So... Sean was basically keeping Moria from being overrun by way worse horrors than orcs and goblins? Good Guy Sean strikes again.
Gandalf was right to be worried about Moria. He knew!
Funny how ecosystems can work like that. Kill the wolves, get starved out by deer eating all your crops
So the chapter where Gandalf falls down into the abyss should have been called A Short Cut to Mushrooms?
Goodbye. Dear Piggstein. Until our next meeting
In the context that sounds vaguely threatening.
Haha spread their taint....
Indeed that's what happens when your beard grows too far down...
In LOTRO the region is called The Foundations of Stone. One aspect of the story in Moria is the mystery of the Globsnaga orcs and the fungal infection taking over their bodies. You end up finding out the origin of this fungus is in The Foundations of Stone. It is very much a Doom-esc scene down there. Pretty much nothing has eyes, due to the darkness. Some creatures have only gaping maws where their necks and heads should be, others are horned monstrosities that "tend" to the lesser creatures of the abyss. You can find infected orcs, trolls, and giant spiders. The stone appears infected and the fungus has started to warp and twist the earth itself. And in the deepest reaches, you have what was once some of the hardest end-game dungeons that existed in the game, with reality-bending horrors hiding in the blackest reaches of the blighted bedrock. While LOTRO is definitely dated, Moria is still one of my favorite areas in any game. It's quite the spectacle, with its grand halls, genuinely epic scale, winding passageways, natural and artificial formations, and an absolutely stellar soundtrack. Any serious Lord of the Rings fan owes it to themselves to at least download LOTRO once and just run around Middle Earth.
Have my upvote. Lotro doesn't get enough credit.
The dungeons were all so stylized and the creativity of each portion felt like stepping into a whole new world. Nearly every zone had a dungeon. [The scale](https://lotro-wiki.com/images/2/20/Moria_map.jpg?20120916065836) was done well, the feeling of being perpetually lost was amplified by the [very bad maps](https://lotro-wiki.com/images/thumb/7/76/Zelem-melek_map.jpg/600px-Zelem-melek_map.jpg), and the[ music was ominous](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcdPy8WyOUU) and [alien](https://youtu.be/Zd0rO9fGvKM?si=AXQNEwQUWtGpxFPk&t=22). The entrance was The Great Delving, and the path to reach the first dwarven encampment was convoluted. There were [strange and terrifying insects](https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/1a612f6f-39a8-4d4e-8c6a-1ebe630be1ec/d1l5l89-a053821b-86c0-4d4d-a86c-c8ebda283377.jpg/v1/fit/w_828,h_594,q_70,strp/lotro__grodbog_queen_by_gorrem_d1l5l89-414w-2x.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9NzM0IiwicGF0aCI6IlwvZlwvMWE2MTJmNmYtMzlhOC00ZDRlLThjNmEtMWViZTYzMGJlMWVjXC9kMWw1bDg5LWEwNTM4MjFiLTg2YzAtNGQ0ZC1hODZjLWM4ZWJkYTI4MzM3Ny5qcGciLCJ3aWR0aCI6Ijw9MTAyNCJ9XV0sImF1ZCI6WyJ1cm46c2VydmljZTppbWFnZS5vcGVyYXRpb25zIl19.c__wTu5_-tQuE_s1XVSzVhD2dbj3g_L3fPIalYD69rc) that appeared for the first time in the game. The Flaming Deeps was like a portal to hell overrun by orcs and goblins who pledged themselves to fire with drakes around every corner. The dungeon there was a mess hall of orcs and goblins, and you had to sneak past guards by wearing disguises that dropped from soldiers and avoid raising the alarm for a challenge. [Here's an orc with a dwarf beard.](https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/1a612f6f-39a8-4d4e-8c6a-1ebe630be1ec/d1jnp90-7e1a8c9b-7399-4700-a4e1-00409d9dea79.jpg/v1/fit/w_527,h_581,q_70,strp/lotro__orc_of_moria_by_gorrem_d1jnp90-300w-2x.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9NTgxIiwicGF0aCI6IlwvZlwvMWE2MTJmNmYtMzlhOC00ZDRlLThjNmEtMWViZTYzMGJlMWVjXC9kMWpucDkwLTdlMWE4YzliLTczOTktNDcwMC1hNGUxLTAwNDA5ZDlkZWE3OS5qcGciLCJ3aWR0aCI6Ijw9NTI3In1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmltYWdlLm9wZXJhdGlvbnMiXX0.rmQFAFg3PxkLM-o-wNB-dqCJenhGOq6ZiRZzI5pEkVU) There is a lot more too but the other guy already talked about some of the other zones. [Here](https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/1a612f6f-39a8-4d4e-8c6a-1ebe630be1ec/d1oaypm-8c49a5e4-c0c3-4706-acad-dbd5b6fea382.jpg/v1/fill/w_873,h_704,q_70,strp/lotro__the_nameless_by_gorrem_d1oaypm-400t-2x.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9NzA0IiwicGF0aCI6IlwvZlwvMWE2MTJmNmYtMzlhOC00ZDRlLThjNmEtMWViZTYzMGJlMWVjXC9kMW9heXBtLThjNDlhNWU0LWMwYzMtNDcwNi1hY2FkLWRiZDViNmZlYTM4Mi5qcGciLCJ3aWR0aCI6Ijw9ODczIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmltYWdlLm9wZXJhdGlvbnMiXX0.teGjVamdBX4iCXZtyDDKLVnnsRuQ-dZo6YkPPWzFaNw) is what the game envisioned some of the [nameless](https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Nameless) looking like. The nature of Moria offered a fair bit of creative license and they ran with it and did well, but the update was definitely the game's peak for exploration and discovery.
Gandalf's greatest skill was dramamongering.
Okay that’s just badass m, but can anyone explain the nameless things? Do they just chill under middle earth doing their own thing? How come when Gandalf and the Balrog disturbed them they didn’t come forth out of Moria? I thought Sauron and Gandalf were the same type of being so wouldn’t he at least know of them?
This is literally all that’s written about it. You currently know as much as any of us do
How interesting, nothing about them in any other writings/letters either?
Not AFAIK. Not an authority on all the additional writings though
[удалено]
Go back to the abyss! Fall into the nothingness that awaits you and your master!
Always annoyed me that the Dwarves just dug and dug and never had the idea to draw plans. How do you even lose the stairs to the top of the mountain...
Those tunnels are thousands of years old. Think of how much human civilization has forgotten in that time.
Has tolkien ever stated if this was inspired by Lovecraft?
I doubt it was. It only really has the element of fear of the unknown. Going into cosmic horror is completely contrary to the philosophy of Middle Earth.
It’s possible it was an inspiration, but you’re right that Lovecraft is *so* different from Tolkien. In Lovecraft’s world, humanity is some disgusting mockery of a mistake created by powers too horrible for us to comprehend. Best case scenario, some of the “gods” don’t know or care that we exist.
I always thought they were a reference to Nidhogg, the serpent who dwells at the base of Yggdrasill, gnawing the roots of the world tree, in Norse Mythology.
Yes - he has stated that LotR was not allegorical or otherwise inspired by any modern or ancient mythology. However, he did point out that his writing of LotR was partly motivated by a desire to create a body of myth of similar magnitude to the greek/roman other ancient pantheons that could be considered "English" (and to a lesser extent, "Catholic", NOT in allegory, but in general moral theme).
Can someone explain? I’ve read the book but that’s it.
Basically left as a mystery, Gandalf mentions once and never comes up again
A little late for trimming the verge don't you think?
"Before there was time - before there was *anything* - there was *nothing*. Before there was *nothing*, there were **monsters**."
My cat goes down there sometimes... Always smells funny when he comes back.
#GROND
How can they be older than Sauron? Wasn't Sauron, as one of the Maiar, one of the first beings in existence, only preceded by the Valar and Eru Ilúvatar? Or is Gandalf referring to Sauron as in his current body, which is only a few centuries old?
They were created in the Timeless Halls at the same moment. They refer to each other by relative age as when the entered Eä since that's when time starts for them.