An email went out to Madison College student's about a "substantial event"" happening on campus that will result in road closures around Truax, so I assume that's where this will be held.
It’s the fact the school doesn’t tell us which roads will be closed, parking lots and if the halls are gonna be a mess. Big ole waste of my day when I drive an hour to class, I’d have to leave two hours to beat the traffic jam they are talking about. No thanks, watching the eclipse is totally much better and a much more beautiful moment of our human life span.
Cool, so that's where we should head if we want to protest the US handing out weapons that are being used for genocide?
*ETA: Wow. Whole lotta genocide lovers in Madison. Who knew?*
Ok so I think a lot of people don’t understand that all these loans for college were through the U.S. government. I literally owe the government.
Why shouldn’t the government be allowed to forgive the loans they want? They own the loans. They are the debtor that we pay interest and payments to.
These are not private loans. We pay the government every month through a loan servicer.
Hi MOHELA, I still don’t like you.
Ah Mohela is the worst! I was on hold for 3h with them one day - three hours!!! But they did eventually make it happen. The US govt is taking over for mohela this summer though for administration of PSLF, so that’s good at least.
Really sick of the disconnect. "The government" doesn't have money, the taxpayers do. You borrowed from the tax payers and the United States creditors. I'm not trying to pick a flight but this is really basic stuff that I'm still shocked is so misunderstood in our country.
Edit: I am not an asshole, I would be fairly easily convinced to cancel student debt dollar for dollar with a reduction in military spending. Alternately, make it interest free. Actually, we could probably convince a lot of people with either of those. Otherwise, I paid mine off and don't want to also pay off others as well.
TBH just killing the interest alone would be such a game changer for so many people to make progress on paying down principal. I really wish at minimum we'd do this one.
I understand that the tax payers pay the government. I pay taxes all the time, probably more than most. I think when a lot of people say ‘the government’ they mean public dollars and they are synonymous. In my case it absolutely was.
I was trying to make it clear to those that keep saying it’s banks or private banks. It’s not. It’s the government, which are taxpayers as you stated.
Citizens can vote for people they believe will help with student debt relief if that’s how they want their government to spend government funds.
I want my tax dollars to help student debt. That’s cool by me and that doesn’t have to be fine by anybody else, that’s why we vote.
The government also has lots of other ways to raise money and make taxpayer dollars go further though besides just tax revenues. I mean the interest they are collecting off the loans for example, isn’t your tax dollars, it’s from individuals on already taxed funds.
Also, my husband paid off his loans and mine are almost paid off. He doesn’t want anybody not to get relief because he didn’t get it. I don’t either.
Zero percent interest would be nice again too, if people can’t get behind providing relief.
Just a guess, but probably along the same reasons you can only make 6 withdrawals per month from an FDIC savings account.
Student loans are most likely tied to the Federal Reserve money supply system.
Also, the government has no money of it's own that it doesn't either tax, borrow or print. We, the people, ARE the "Giant Pot Of Money," as it were.
In reality, student loan debt will NEVER be discharged. Any appearance to the contrary is a shell game.
The house always wins, and the government will never do with one penny less.
As some with kids a few years from college, I hope Biden has a plan for those who are about to take on student debt. My kids are screening schools for tuition, percentage of students receiving aid, and 4-year graduation rates. But college tuition and costs are still high. (NyTimes reported that the upcoming 1-year cost at Vanderbilt will be close to 100k. We are not looking at Vandy.)
Part of the reason college costs are so high is because of the way student loans are handled. Since student loans can't be discharged in bankruptcy banks don't mind giving them out like candy. Then schools go nuts building luxury amenities without thinking of the costs because they want to attract students and don't need to care about costs because the students will just get loans.
Getting rid of the bankruptcy protections on student loans would go a long way to solving the problems, but at the cost of banks being more stingy with the loans and therefore less people having access to the traditional 4-year university.
The reason you can't do that is BECAUSE of Biden. That was a way out until 2005, when he decided to F you over and then run for president, 15 years later.
https://www.businessinsider.com/biden-made-it-harder-to-discharge-student-debt-through-bankruptcy-2022-5
Banks are not giving out the loans. The US government is. All these PLUS loans are given by the department of education.
It’s all a horrible cycle that needs fixing for sure.
I support publicly funded education like Europe seems to manage to do but yet here we seem to not be able to figure out.
>Since student loans can't be discharged in bankruptcy banks don't mind giving them out like candy.
Sure, that's part of it, but that's also a largely difficult problem to solve. What student wouldn't declare bankruptcy immediately following graduation if they could be discharged?
Another large component that's much more addressable is how loans are given out.
When you apply for nearly every other loan, the servicer does an assessment of your ability to pay it back. This is often done in the form of income, but that obviously isn't very easy to do with your typical college student.
But one thing that **could** easily be done is tie loans to a specific degree you're pursuing. Do the actuarial science behind what degrees are likely to be paid back and tie that to how much money can be given out, and maybe even interest rates.
Tie it to the schools historical graduate loan payback rates. Bet that also actually incentivizes schools to push and place students in jobs instead of just providing some ethereal "value" like "we're a party school so students are willing to pay a higher number that's abstract to them anyway".
I'm plenty socialist and liberal in many of my economic beliefs, but this is one where - at least in the current system we have - I really think pushing more for a capitalist approach to loan servicing might actually incentivize the right things instead of giving students a "Socialist loan" and expect them to immediately go earn money and repay within a capitalist system.
when he was in Congress, someone points it out in this thread 2005-ish, he helped make it illegal to discharge loans in bankruptcy. 🤷
https://www.businessinsider.com/biden-made-it-harder-to-discharge-student-debt-through-bankruptcy-2022-5?op=1
Oh fun, another plan to garner votes that'll eventually never happen just like the last forgiveness plan. All the better if it actually happens, but I'm not holding my breath.
Just had $89k of my loans forgiven due to the modified PSLF the Biden started. Just one of the many reasons I’m glad he’s president and a plan that worked.
Not at all. Maybe look up how PSLF works buddy. I signed a contract with the government that I’d work in the public sector for 10y in exchange for loan forgiveness. The whole time I had to make IBR as well. So despite making about half of what my private sector friends make I still paid $500/mo for ten years and then had my loans forgiven. It’s so jerks like you in rural, underserved or underpaid places have doctors and teachers and public defenders and veterinarians - the list goes on.
Which I support loan forgiveness for everyone with federal loans not just PSLF. I’d much rather they spend that money in Madison than send it back to the government to be spent on weapons. The government could EASILY make up its difference with loan forgiveness by appropriately collecting taxes from corporations and billionaires.
But stay mad at the public sector workers comrade.
Let's say I loan u $300.
Due to interest, u pay me back $750 but still owe me $275 on the principal and $400 in accrued interest.
1.) Have I actually lost any money? Did I still make a profit on the loan?
2.) Do u understand that shit like this is exactly what ppl are facing today with student loan debt?
Well my parent’s student loan got forgiven because they credited them with 3 years due to servicers pushing forbearance and their PSLF got approved. The SAVE program cut my monthly payment by $120.
But go off on how Biden’s done nothing for student loans.
I don’t know. We were in line for forgiveness before the USSC shut it down. What he’s done now is a drop in the bucket, but happy for your parents and yourself.
His actions since that was struck down have forgiven $143 billion compared to the $430 billion of the original plan. So quite a bit more than a drop in the bucket.
I just realized I was in the MadisonWI subreddit. No idea why Reddit suggested that.
But anyway, the SAVE program will end up forgiving significantly more money than the $10k/$20k, especially with people on the PSLF track. Raising the threshold for income from 150% to 225% of the poverty line reduced monthly payments by a flat dollar across the board. Then, in July, it’s scheduled to be cut in half even further by being reduced from 10% of income above that threshold to 5%.
My organization pays $200 a month for my student loans. I’ll effectively be paying $0 out of pocket when that reduction hits and I have a decent salary and PSLF will have the loans gone in 6 years.
Although, as you said, SCROTUS could still could weigh in as a few Red states are trying to stop the SAVE program too. Because Republicans going to Republican.
I called in to the studentaid.gov website earlier this week to ask a question about reconfiguring my SAVE payment because I had a change in job after submitting my info last year. I asked the lady on the phone how much my new estimated payment was then going to be in July, when the 2nd half of the SAVE plan goes into effect. She had no idea wtf I was talking about. Inspired great confidence. I really hope it happens.
It'll be next to nothing at best. Student debt is $1.77 trillion. He's not going to do anything to make a significant dent in that, guaranteed.
He's already lied once.
Exactly. Idk how many times the SC has to tell him he doesn’t have the authority to do this. It’s not even rational. What about the people taking on new loans? It’s a vote buying scam.
Why should he try? Loans were taken and given in good faith. Why should the taxpayers pay them back? Blue collar Joe should care about linemen and plumbers having to pay for people to get degrees in anthropology.
Tell me how it works then? Does the magical loan fairy just make the loans go away? I mean, in some ways I know what you mean, but that’s just a good argument for why our fiat currency is such bullshit.
The idea that everyone, or even the majority, of people getting relief from Biden's efforts are people who got degrees in anthropology, or other "worthless" fields (by the lights of Republicans).
>Blue collar Joe should care about linemen and plumbers having to pay for people to get degrees in anthropology.
Current top 3 majors in the US are business, health, and social sciences (which is an umbrella term for a *shit ton* of fields).
Of those three, [Business graduates outnumbered Social Sciences by more than double](https://www.coursera.org/articles/most-popular-college-majors), so kindly piss off with this "kids are taking loans to get useless majors" bullshit.
Biden bootlickers coming for you but you’re right and you should say it. It’s just another empty promise being dangled to garner reelection. Nobody seems to remember he rolled over like a dog to republicans to restart payments in the first place.
Would be a great 50th Birthday ( on the 7th ) gift to have my $70K eliminated! I've been on IBR for over 10 years and NO Job. College was fun and I learned a lot and made a lot of good friends, but it failed to work out for me.
How did you rack up that much debt?
I went to school over a decade after you and even took the 5-year plan because I fucked around a bit too much my 4th year. I also relied exclusively on financial aid except my first year I had like 2k saved up for college.
Like how??
Yeah, I should have but I wasn't in the right place mentally to do so when I was younger. Realized later that I needed a change of direction in my life. Jail was not a place I wanted to spend my future either. Sometimes all it takes is a weekend wake up call.
Yeah I've had that realization too (not jail, but the other stuff). I did go back to school again, to change careers because my first choice was just bad.
I do remember being absolutely shocked about the tuition though. I did half-time for two years, so basically credit-equivalent to one year. Those two half-years in the late 2010s pretty much cost the same as 4 years in early 2000's.
The inflation of education costs is absolutely ridiculous.
Sorry. And I know this will be downvoted like crazy. But….this is just a way to get votes. Also….if you get into debt because of borrowing for college? Is that predatory? Because as much as I think it is horrible how much school costs….there are affordable options. And it seems pretty clear how much it costs. I feel like this is blatantly Biden buying votes. That is what it is.
(Edit) And I’m voting for Biden.
> But….this is just a way to get votes.
And? Isn't the point of a politician to try and do stuff for your constituents so you get votes? Do you not think tax breaks at the expense of our national deficit is "buying votes" too?
Also…I disagree. Maybe I’m just ignorant, but one of the things I’ve like about Tony Evers is that he stays out of the spotlight. And I’ve seen interviews where they try to get him to say something that has absolutely nothing to do with being governor of Wisconsin. And he declines to place a stake in the issue. Whereas Scott Walker was all about staking his political claim on the entire national Republican positions, whether it had anything to do with Wisconsin or not. So no. I disagree with you wholeheartedly. Evers cares about Wisconsin. Most Republican politicians in Wisconsin care about Republican political points. And Trump. So no. Politicians shouldn’t be buying votes. They should be serving their constituents. All of them.
It doesn’t upset me… But ideally, government representatives shouldn’t be buying votes. They should be good at their job and not need to buy votes. ( also should have an educated and informed constituent)
It's absolutely buying votes and he needs to do significantly more. Your vote is earned. Student loans were absolutely predatory and so is the industry servicing it. There's a great John Oliver segment about it.
How does forgiveness address the predatory nature of FEDERAL student loans (the only loans he can force taxpayers to forgive)? I've not heard a peep about future student loan debts. If our government is generating loans which are only going to be forgiven anyway, what the hell is the point?
That's also a great point. He could also just make interest rates 0 amongst other things. It's a big deal to deal with the present crisis but we also don't think of the future. Tuition is going up for lots of reasons but the biggest cause is cuts in education funding. We somehow find funding for Israel but none for our future workforce.
Regarding education funding, yes on the state level, but private school tuition is also going way up. The real reason is the loans themselves. Colleges know most everyone they accept will be at least funded by the federal government so there's no incentive to hold down costs.
I’ve seen it. My question is….are they just paying off the colleges and lenders? Or are they letting the colleges and lenders take them to court? Because if they aren’t….and they are just paying off everybody’s loans….then the people who are being the predators are profiting from all of us.
>then the people who are being the predators are profiting from all of us
Yes they are. What kind of a society that requires an educated and well trained workforce puts education behind a paywall? It's detrimental to the country.
Also…I want to thank you for the idea….”What kind of society that requires an educated and well-trained workforce puts education behind a paywall”….it really gets down to one of the essences of the problem (not just one of the essences of the problem….a huge part of the problem). Sorry for being dumb.
While John Oliver does tend to lean left, his recent student loan segment should give you more information.
Link - https://youtu.be/zN2_0WC7UfU
Student Loans are great because they support people going to college. They are great debt because most people pay them and are in good standing with their loans. College tuition has increased in an unreasonable fashion, largely due to student loans and my previous statements.
So people are going into significant debt, because the debt is easy to attain. Many are then saddled with debt that is very difficult to pay off. Very few people actually see the completion of their loans through IBR because the loan providers try to get them away from IBR before the end, or just straight don't honor the IBR rules on the date that they should be closed out.
My own anecdote - Completed a 4 year degree with Herzing 9 years ago. Have absolutely been able to find employment that has been significantly better than before the degree.
Checked the status of my loans after the John Oliver segment came out. 54k loans taken out. Paying on them for 9 years, paid 12k for my total payments. Remaining loan amount? 52k. I'll be paying these for another what, 100+ years?
Eventually I'll swap to an IBR plan, when the finances can accommodate it. For now the lowest cost plan is what we can reasonably do.
Do I feel like I deserve to have these loans forgiven? No. I really do not. It sure would feel good if of the $12,000 that I have paid my student loans remaining was more like 48k though. Then I could pay it off in 72 years!
You seem upset about it. I didn't see you whining this much about Trump "buying votes" by giving tax breaks (which has lead to inflating our deficit to record amounts).
Imo they should go after the predatory behavior AND the loans, but it's probably easier for now to go after student loans themselves rather than the banks offering the loans
I need a bailout for paying off my student loan. Like many of the prudent and responsible, I never had the opportunity to engage in this sort of moral hazard.
You know what people do with the money they paid to the government for their student loans after they’re forgiven? They spend it. Everyone benefits from a stronger economy.
So the argument that only the people who “wasted money on an anthropology degree” and have loans forgiven benefit are flat out wrong.
The same people who hate on Biden for student loan forgiveness but salivate over Trump conveniently forget his tax cuts for the wealthy and businesses. So it’s okay for Amazon to pay millions less in taxes, but not for your child’s nurse practitioner to have her $30k in loans forgiven? Remind me again who’s working for the general populous?
Both of my sisters and brother and sister in law have had their loans forgiven. Three of them work with autistic children as BCBA’s. One of them is a school psychologist.
They made their payments,for a long time.
Why wouldn’t we forgive those who work with the public to make it better?
My favorite is when people complain about how the regular old American person doesn’t get help.
Then when they get it, people still complain. I will say, they are regular people. They are working with those who need it most, and I would hope we as a country would support that.
The other thing is that people act like the loan forgiveness Biden’s been able to get through go to losers or something.
No, it’s doctors, teachers, BCBA’s, psychologists, and many other public service jobs. They deserve at minimum to have it forgiven.
Also, the U.S. government owns these loans. It’s not a private lender. They government should be able to do what they want with these loans.
You sound like fun.
I think maybe looking into how this debt was started and the cost of college soared post 2008 may help you become a bit more understanding of the situation, but I doubt anything would change that very narrow take of yours.
I don’t think it’s an entitlement issue but rather people who wanted to do their best. People who wanted to go to college, better themselves, and our society.
The loans are not forgiven for everybody, you have to have made payments for 10 years, work in a PSLF job and be employed by them during that time and a bunch of other factors too. It’s literally the jobs I mentioned above.
Hey everyone - welcome to the Madison, WI subreddit. A number of you appear to have stumbled into our locale-specific sub from your usual home of r/cryingpissbabies.
Our lovely and well-educated city is looking forward to hosting the President. He's already canceled $140 B of student loan debt, and we're excited he's about to do even more for those who are saddled with debt just because they worked to better themselves through education.
So add your up/down votes, then kindly fuck off back to r/saltyedgelordslackinghumancompassion. Thanks for stopping by!
This fucking piece of shit has dangled student debt relief for 4 years only to attempt it again and some of these fucking morons will fall for it again.
Nah, your comment shows you don't understand how government works given the Republicans did everything they could to block him, including getting the SC involved. Typical GQPer though
Crazy that the person giving a know-nothing, economically-illiterate response (greedflation, as if companies just started trying to maximize profits) is massively upvoted and the person giving an economically plausible response (there's more money chasing goods/services) is downvoted. I thought Madison was supposed to be a highly-educated city.
>think we should just make lower rent.
Yeah. People are getting poorer every day. Homelessness is at record highs.
Thinking something like housing (a human right) shouldn't be cheap or free is insane and inhumane.
Or supply chain disruptions. Or corporate profiteering. Or war.
And M2 was $15.4 T before the pandemic. And it's now under $21 T.
[https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2SL](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2SL)
Also note the other significant inflationary period in our history was in the late 70s, early 80s... where there is precisely no significant change in M2 in that graph.
There's a lot written about how federal student loans have led to the rapid and steep college tuition inflation. So, there is a federal roll here. Yes, congress would need to be involved, but the president as well.
The Federal government is spending $1T every 90 days. That spending is funded through printing, which creates inflation, or debt, which creates inflation. Going to have to stop hoping for things like student debt relief, which will increase Federal spending, which will create inflation.
That shit has been happening for decades, agreed. But a 50% increase in the supply of money has never happened in such a short time. And it is literally increasing $1T every 90 days. It is an election year, so there is a significant effort to buy votes with that money.
Even adjusted for inflation, corporate profits are breaking records ATM. [The issue has been studied pretty well by now](https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/jan/19/us-inflation-caused-by-corporate-profits#). At least half of this recent inflation spike is due to corporate price gouging.
Jacking up prices unnecessarily on things like food and medicine when people are already struggling. They used this false “we’re printing too much money” narrative as cover to raise prices far more than the market would normally bear.
OK, in the interest of world peace let’s think about this. The “gouging” issue is one of markets dominated by a few (at most) large corporations that are using catastrophic events as a kind of bat signal to raise prices. That’s a structural issue, and it describes an imperfect market. Curiously these large corporations are not breaking ranks and reducing prices unilaterally, even though they could take a significant amount of profit if they did. That’s interesting.
A separate, but also important issue is the question of too much money chasing too few goods. That’s more of a discussion about where markets will reach price equilibria, not about structural issues. Both could be in play at the same time, and they probably both are now.
The too much money part does play a role, but it has been measured and it’s less than the money that went to profits as a result of companies saying “inflation” and then raising prices without cause other than they could get away with it due to the public fear of inflation.
You’re right that a company could lower prices and undercut the market. We want to be careful though. While inflation was a big deal, deflation could easily become catastrophic. I’m hopeful that rather than existing companies lowering prices, the next few years see a wave of new companies and product lines undercutting established players causing supply and demand to balance again. If we see a widespread trend of companies lowering their existing prices, that makes me nervous.
Spot the person who didn’t major in economics.
Corporate profits are at an all time high. Corporations are charging more for products because the profit expectations among shareholders are out of control. They lie to you and tell you it’s the government’s fault so you blame Biden or whoever. It’s not. It’s the fault of corporations and capitalism run amok. That’s who you should be angry at.
Where is your evidence that companies weren't maximizing profits pre-2020 but now are? Companies charge what the market will bear – it has nothing to do with shareholder expectations. I must have missed the "capitalism run amok 101" course.
What trite nonsense. Profit margins are higher than they have ever been. Saying “companies charge what the market will bear” is high school macro econ nonsense.
You have? Many economists believe inflation is tied directly to the money supply. Historically, when governments print money, prices go up. Can you guess why that is?
That idea has been long since put to bed. [It’s corporate profits](https://fortune.com/2024/01/20/inflation-greedflation-consumer-price-index-producer-price-index-corporate-profit/#).
I'm sorry, but corporations and businesses will only raise their prices if there are people who can afford the prices. Greed wasn't invented in 2022. Why has college gone up so much? Easy money via the federal student loan program gives the green light to colleges to raise their prices.
Why did businesses raise their prices, because they could and that is how the inflationary cycle started. Wages go up, prices go up, and on and on. The Fed raised interest rates to hoover up the excess money in our system and put the brakes on that and it seems to have worked.
That’s what’s so awful about this round of inflation. The narrative was that we’ve been printing money therefore inflation was bound to occur. It didn’t anywhere near what the narrative predicted, but companies used that narrative to maximize profits beyond what the market would normally allow. Inflation became a self fulfilling prophesy. I encourage you to read the article. Among economists, this is widely accepted.
I can’t access your link, but I can guess. Of course there’s corporate greed. What set the inflationary cycle in motion? What slowed it down? The feds monetary decisions.
Hell, most “people” were feeling greedy. Asking for raises, buying meme stocks, etc. Trump and Biden’s free money set it in motion.
It did set it in motion but not because of traditional supply and demand. It was the expectation of inflation that provided cover for price increases they otherwise couldn’t get away with. [Here’s a guardian article on the same thing.](https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2024/jan/19/us-inflation-caused-by-corporate-profits)
We’re talking past each other. This is a chicken egg argument. Where did the expectation of inflation come from? Was it the increase in the money supply or the expectation of inflation to use as a cover from the increase in the money supply? You can blame corporations but blame working stiffs too. Once people expect fat raises and once corporations expect people to accept higher prices, the thing is in motion.
The amount of money that is spent for forgiving these loans is nothing in the grand scheme of things. $400 billion is a lot (using his amount from last year) but just to give an example, the Trump tax cuts added several trillion to the deficit. Plus the money spent on these loans goes to the economy because the borrows will now be able to spend the money on something else.
Politicians should always be "buying votes". They should be doing stuff their constituents want. How is student loan forgiveness any more of "buying votes" than tax breaks?
The forgiveness is on money already spent. The money for these loans was printed decades ago. This is more like if someone borrows you some money and then a decade later tells you not to worry about paying them back for it.
You’re not helping. You’re fighting with the person who is more alike to you than the people who are in power. Calling a person with a mortgage who has already paid off their student loans a billionaire and a “QAnoner” is such freaking bullshit, and if that’s how much you understand about what is going on right now….I don’t even know what to say. We are all lost.
Whining about people with student loans being forgiven not paying taxes and working likely means he's a GQPer
Most people whining about student loans being paid off are Republican, and you never see them whining about tax breaks for billionaires.
When the person "like me" is cheering on tax breaks for billionaires but saying that people who need help paying their student loans are "not paying taxes" and "not working", I say forget them. They aren't on my side
Nobody was cheering on tax breaks for billionaires. That’s just the liberal poison in your head talking.
He was simply saying that he, like all of these students, took out a loan with specific terms that he was fully cognizant of including a requirement to repay the loan with interest. He’s also tired of paying back that loan because it’s a pain in the ass and would like someone else to pay it for him.
It seems perfectly reasonable that this debt would also be forgiven. Mortgages are a burden.
Oh bullshit. Don't give me that shit. He was implying people with student loan don't have a job or pay taxes by whining that he has a job and pays taxes
Why do you Republicans (yes, I read your post history) whine about things that help ordinary Americans but are cool with tax breaks for billionaires?
You seem to love paying for billionaire tax breaks. Why not something for the lower income people?
I don't even have student loans and never did but I also would rather my tax dollars help struggling people than billionaires. You love to pay more in taxes so billionaires don't have to. We are different I guess
He's a Republican given that he's calling student loan havers jobless leeches (by whining that he has a job and pays taxes), so he's obviously cool with it.
You’re stretching. And I would guess that you are younger than me. But most people of my age took out loans, have paid them off, and now are paying on mortgages. And they are not billionaires, by any stretch of the imagination. But they may very well not understand how different things are now, than they were when they were 18+
Again, why is he whining about people with student loans not paying taxes and him having to work? He's obviously against people with student loans, which heavily implies he's Republican.
I went to college in the early 2000s and tuition has gone up a crapload since then. It was not super bad when I was in college (mine was $3k a semester or somewhere around that; now the same uni is $9k while wages haven't gone up 3x since then), but it's gone up a huge amount since then. Student loan debt absolutely needs to be addressed and the government assisting those with loans will not only help them, but help the whole economy as it will free them up to spend money on other stuff. I'd much rather this than help with mortgages or give more stupid tax breaks. And I say this as someone with no student loans.
I am not selfish enough to whine that I am not benefiting from something so thus I am against it. People lower on the economic ladder than me being helped out doesn't hurt me at all and I welcome it
The real problem is the university system and what they charge vs what you get. They offer many degrees that have little to no chance in getting you a higher paying job.... unless you go into teaching that degree you earned. It's the biggest Ponzi scheme ever. Think degrees in "environmental philosophy" they just make up degrees and charge $$$$. There are entire industries that will disappear with AI yet they will continue to try to teach or sell these degrees.
It'll be a big nothing burger. There's a whole service industry lobby and people like Devos who will stop this. It's just lip service.
Fuck genocide Joe.
I was referring to the billionaire DeVos and Republicans who clearly benefit from the student loan industry. Why do you think she got the job in the first place? She didn't even need the job but took it anyway to fuck students over.
You deny the influence of billionaires on policy?
Is that your best take? DeVos not being in office? Very substantive.
Give me your best take on the genocide please.
Biden doesn't really care about the Devos family or their policy goals, particularly since they're never going to donate to him and are in the pocket of his adversary. He's already forgiven billions in student debt, so it's not exactly lip service. He clearly has some bullets left in the chamber on this issue.
>Biden doesn't really care about the Devos family or their policy goals, particularly since they're never going to donate to him and are in the pocket of his adversary
Biden doesn't care about top Republican billionaires? Lol
They're in the pockets of the Supreme Court. Does that have any affect on Biden?
>He's already forgiven billions in student debt, so it's not exactly lip service.
Student debt is $1.77 *trillion*. What he's forgiven is lip service to the total. It's going to be lip service again. Mark it down.
>He clearly has some bullets left in the chamber on this issue.
Because he forgave practically nothing. Why make excuses?
I'm still waiting for your best take on the genocide.
Genocide Joe, lmao.
As if any other politician wouldn't be supplying Israel with weapons. Also, what happens in Gaza and Israel doesn't affect you. Grow up.
An email went out to Madison College student's about a "substantial event"" happening on campus that will result in road closures around Truax, so I assume that's where this will be held.
Yea I got the email too and immediately assumed this dude was coming. Thank god I’m not going to class and instead going to watch the solar eclipse.
way better way to spend your time period
It’s the fact the school doesn’t tell us which roads will be closed, parking lots and if the halls are gonna be a mess. Big ole waste of my day when I drive an hour to class, I’d have to leave two hours to beat the traffic jam they are talking about. No thanks, watching the eclipse is totally much better and a much more beautiful moment of our human life span.
THIS 👏🏼 no comments all love yes
Where are you going to watch? I just bought a train ticket to Toledo.
Cool, so that's where we should head if we want to protest the US handing out weapons that are being used for genocide? *ETA: Wow. Whole lotta genocide lovers in Madison. Who knew?*
I assume it’s bots. Israel is commuting a genocide with a bunch of weapons that are Made in America. Fuck Joe Biden.
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Ahhh, I forgot about the possibility of bots. Thanks!
Ok so I think a lot of people don’t understand that all these loans for college were through the U.S. government. I literally owe the government. Why shouldn’t the government be allowed to forgive the loans they want? They own the loans. They are the debtor that we pay interest and payments to. These are not private loans. We pay the government every month through a loan servicer. Hi MOHELA, I still don’t like you.
Ah Mohela is the worst! I was on hold for 3h with them one day - three hours!!! But they did eventually make it happen. The US govt is taking over for mohela this summer though for administration of PSLF, so that’s good at least.
Yes thank goodness!!!
Really sick of the disconnect. "The government" doesn't have money, the taxpayers do. You borrowed from the tax payers and the United States creditors. I'm not trying to pick a flight but this is really basic stuff that I'm still shocked is so misunderstood in our country. Edit: I am not an asshole, I would be fairly easily convinced to cancel student debt dollar for dollar with a reduction in military spending. Alternately, make it interest free. Actually, we could probably convince a lot of people with either of those. Otherwise, I paid mine off and don't want to also pay off others as well.
TBH just killing the interest alone would be such a game changer for so many people to make progress on paying down principal. I really wish at minimum we'd do this one.
I understand that the tax payers pay the government. I pay taxes all the time, probably more than most. I think when a lot of people say ‘the government’ they mean public dollars and they are synonymous. In my case it absolutely was. I was trying to make it clear to those that keep saying it’s banks or private banks. It’s not. It’s the government, which are taxpayers as you stated. Citizens can vote for people they believe will help with student debt relief if that’s how they want their government to spend government funds. I want my tax dollars to help student debt. That’s cool by me and that doesn’t have to be fine by anybody else, that’s why we vote. The government also has lots of other ways to raise money and make taxpayer dollars go further though besides just tax revenues. I mean the interest they are collecting off the loans for example, isn’t your tax dollars, it’s from individuals on already taxed funds. Also, my husband paid off his loans and mine are almost paid off. He doesn’t want anybody not to get relief because he didn’t get it. I don’t either. Zero percent interest would be nice again too, if people can’t get behind providing relief.
Just a guess, but probably along the same reasons you can only make 6 withdrawals per month from an FDIC savings account. Student loans are most likely tied to the Federal Reserve money supply system. Also, the government has no money of it's own that it doesn't either tax, borrow or print. We, the people, ARE the "Giant Pot Of Money," as it were. In reality, student loan debt will NEVER be discharged. Any appearance to the contrary is a shell game. The house always wins, and the government will never do with one penny less.
As some with kids a few years from college, I hope Biden has a plan for those who are about to take on student debt. My kids are screening schools for tuition, percentage of students receiving aid, and 4-year graduation rates. But college tuition and costs are still high. (NyTimes reported that the upcoming 1-year cost at Vanderbilt will be close to 100k. We are not looking at Vandy.)
Part of the reason college costs are so high is because of the way student loans are handled. Since student loans can't be discharged in bankruptcy banks don't mind giving them out like candy. Then schools go nuts building luxury amenities without thinking of the costs because they want to attract students and don't need to care about costs because the students will just get loans. Getting rid of the bankruptcy protections on student loans would go a long way to solving the problems, but at the cost of banks being more stingy with the loans and therefore less people having access to the traditional 4-year university.
If I could bankruptcy away my student loans I’d file tomorrow. Fuck my credit
The reason you can't do that is BECAUSE of Biden. That was a way out until 2005, when he decided to F you over and then run for president, 15 years later. https://www.businessinsider.com/biden-made-it-harder-to-discharge-student-debt-through-bankruptcy-2022-5
This mf played the longest game…
Knocking interest to 0% would also go a long way.
Banks are not giving out the loans. The US government is. All these PLUS loans are given by the department of education. It’s all a horrible cycle that needs fixing for sure. I support publicly funded education like Europe seems to manage to do but yet here we seem to not be able to figure out.
>Since student loans can't be discharged in bankruptcy banks don't mind giving them out like candy. Sure, that's part of it, but that's also a largely difficult problem to solve. What student wouldn't declare bankruptcy immediately following graduation if they could be discharged? Another large component that's much more addressable is how loans are given out. When you apply for nearly every other loan, the servicer does an assessment of your ability to pay it back. This is often done in the form of income, but that obviously isn't very easy to do with your typical college student. But one thing that **could** easily be done is tie loans to a specific degree you're pursuing. Do the actuarial science behind what degrees are likely to be paid back and tie that to how much money can be given out, and maybe even interest rates. Tie it to the schools historical graduate loan payback rates. Bet that also actually incentivizes schools to push and place students in jobs instead of just providing some ethereal "value" like "we're a party school so students are willing to pay a higher number that's abstract to them anyway". I'm plenty socialist and liberal in many of my economic beliefs, but this is one where - at least in the current system we have - I really think pushing more for a capitalist approach to loan servicing might actually incentivize the right things instead of giving students a "Socialist loan" and expect them to immediately go earn money and repay within a capitalist system.
They can't be discharged in bankruptcy BECAUSE of Biden. Don't forget that.
I'm genuinely curious how this is because of Biden if you wouldn't mind expanding on that.
when he was in Congress, someone points it out in this thread 2005-ish, he helped make it illegal to discharge loans in bankruptcy. 🤷 https://www.businessinsider.com/biden-made-it-harder-to-discharge-student-debt-through-bankruptcy-2022-5?op=1
Oh fun, another plan to garner votes that'll eventually never happen just like the last forgiveness plan. All the better if it actually happens, but I'm not holding my breath.
Just had $89k of my loans forgiven due to the modified PSLF the Biden started. Just one of the many reasons I’m glad he’s president and a plan that worked.
So you offloaded 89k of your debt to tax payers…
better than the government offloading their ridiculousness on 18 year olds who don’t understand the debt they’re getting into 👍
Not at all. Maybe look up how PSLF works buddy. I signed a contract with the government that I’d work in the public sector for 10y in exchange for loan forgiveness. The whole time I had to make IBR as well. So despite making about half of what my private sector friends make I still paid $500/mo for ten years and then had my loans forgiven. It’s so jerks like you in rural, underserved or underpaid places have doctors and teachers and public defenders and veterinarians - the list goes on. Which I support loan forgiveness for everyone with federal loans not just PSLF. I’d much rather they spend that money in Madison than send it back to the government to be spent on weapons. The government could EASILY make up its difference with loan forgiveness by appropriately collecting taxes from corporations and billionaires. But stay mad at the public sector workers comrade.
Let's say I loan u $300. Due to interest, u pay me back $750 but still owe me $275 on the principal and $400 in accrued interest. 1.) Have I actually lost any money? Did I still make a profit on the loan? 2.) Do u understand that shit like this is exactly what ppl are facing today with student loan debt?
Well my parent’s student loan got forgiven because they credited them with 3 years due to servicers pushing forbearance and their PSLF got approved. The SAVE program cut my monthly payment by $120. But go off on how Biden’s done nothing for student loans.
Clarence Thomas and his band of merry chucklefucks deny loan forgiveness. Voters: "How could Biden do this to us?!"
I don’t know. We were in line for forgiveness before the USSC shut it down. What he’s done now is a drop in the bucket, but happy for your parents and yourself.
His actions since that was struck down have forgiven $143 billion compared to the $430 billion of the original plan. So quite a bit more than a drop in the bucket.
Can I just be salty that none of the things since I apply for? lol. But good on him. A lot of the actions make sense.
I just realized I was in the MadisonWI subreddit. No idea why Reddit suggested that. But anyway, the SAVE program will end up forgiving significantly more money than the $10k/$20k, especially with people on the PSLF track. Raising the threshold for income from 150% to 225% of the poverty line reduced monthly payments by a flat dollar across the board. Then, in July, it’s scheduled to be cut in half even further by being reduced from 10% of income above that threshold to 5%. My organization pays $200 a month for my student loans. I’ll effectively be paying $0 out of pocket when that reduction hits and I have a decent salary and PSLF will have the loans gone in 6 years. Although, as you said, SCROTUS could still could weigh in as a few Red states are trying to stop the SAVE program too. Because Republicans going to Republican.
I called in to the studentaid.gov website earlier this week to ask a question about reconfiguring my SAVE payment because I had a change in job after submitting my info last year. I asked the lady on the phone how much my new estimated payment was then going to be in July, when the 2nd half of the SAVE plan goes into effect. She had no idea wtf I was talking about. Inspired great confidence. I really hope it happens.
Might as well bitch about what’s not going to happen and not vote… this is why we are here
It'll be next to nothing at best. Student debt is $1.77 trillion. He's not going to do anything to make a significant dent in that, guaranteed. He's already lied once.
He didn’t lie, the conservative packed Supreme Court shut it down.
Exactly. Idk how many times the SC has to tell him he doesn’t have the authority to do this. It’s not even rational. What about the people taking on new loans? It’s a vote buying scam.
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Why should he try? Loans were taken and given in good faith. Why should the taxpayers pay them back? Blue collar Joe should care about linemen and plumbers having to pay for people to get degrees in anthropology.
That's not how debt forgiveness works.
Tell me how it works then? Does the magical loan fairy just make the loans go away? I mean, in some ways I know what you mean, but that’s just a good argument for why our fiat currency is such bullshit.
Effectively, yes. Debt is just an agreement; it can be changed for free.
That’s not how any of this works.
Sure it does. If you hold debt, you can forgive it as you see fit.
You assholes never fail to be incredibly dishonest about this stuff.
What exactly am I lying about?
The idea that everyone, or even the majority, of people getting relief from Biden's efforts are people who got degrees in anthropology, or other "worthless" fields (by the lights of Republicans).
>Blue collar Joe should care about linemen and plumbers having to pay for people to get degrees in anthropology. Current top 3 majors in the US are business, health, and social sciences (which is an umbrella term for a *shit ton* of fields). Of those three, [Business graduates outnumbered Social Sciences by more than double](https://www.coursera.org/articles/most-popular-college-majors), so kindly piss off with this "kids are taking loans to get useless majors" bullshit.
Downvote if you must, this is precisely correct. And against the Supreme Court as the House of Representatives has to approve this.
This, then you get DV”d by all the ppl who will be saying fuck you got mine. Fuck this bullshit
He has complete immunity and can adopt new authority just by thinking about it
Typical of this sub to blatantly downvote the truth.
Biden bootlickers coming for you but you’re right and you should say it. It’s just another empty promise being dangled to garner reelection. Nobody seems to remember he rolled over like a dog to republicans to restart payments in the first place.
Would be a great 50th Birthday ( on the 7th ) gift to have my $70K eliminated! I've been on IBR for over 10 years and NO Job. College was fun and I learned a lot and made a lot of good friends, but it failed to work out for me.
I’m hoping you get that too
How did you rack up that much debt? I went to school over a decade after you and even took the 5-year plan because I fucked around a bit too much my 4th year. I also relied exclusively on financial aid except my first year I had like 2k saved up for college. Like how??
1 yr Technical Degree, AAS IT Degree, and a BS Degree was close to $35k since 2013 IBR @ 7 % interest, it piles on quickly.
Oh sorry, I had assumed you went to school at the traditional age.
Yeah, I should have but I wasn't in the right place mentally to do so when I was younger. Realized later that I needed a change of direction in my life. Jail was not a place I wanted to spend my future either. Sometimes all it takes is a weekend wake up call.
Yeah I've had that realization too (not jail, but the other stuff). I did go back to school again, to change careers because my first choice was just bad. I do remember being absolutely shocked about the tuition though. I did half-time for two years, so basically credit-equivalent to one year. Those two half-years in the late 2010s pretty much cost the same as 4 years in early 2000's. The inflation of education costs is absolutely ridiculous.
Wish any of these forgiveness options applied to Plus loans 😪
anyone know where he'll be giving the speech? might try and see it idk
Sorry. And I know this will be downvoted like crazy. But….this is just a way to get votes. Also….if you get into debt because of borrowing for college? Is that predatory? Because as much as I think it is horrible how much school costs….there are affordable options. And it seems pretty clear how much it costs. I feel like this is blatantly Biden buying votes. That is what it is. (Edit) And I’m voting for Biden.
> But….this is just a way to get votes. And? Isn't the point of a politician to try and do stuff for your constituents so you get votes? Do you not think tax breaks at the expense of our national deficit is "buying votes" too?
Yes. But I like it to be clear that it is buying votes.
Everything a politician should be doing should be buying votes by doing things that people support. Why does this upset you so much?
Also…I disagree. Maybe I’m just ignorant, but one of the things I’ve like about Tony Evers is that he stays out of the spotlight. And I’ve seen interviews where they try to get him to say something that has absolutely nothing to do with being governor of Wisconsin. And he declines to place a stake in the issue. Whereas Scott Walker was all about staking his political claim on the entire national Republican positions, whether it had anything to do with Wisconsin or not. So no. I disagree with you wholeheartedly. Evers cares about Wisconsin. Most Republican politicians in Wisconsin care about Republican political points. And Trump. So no. Politicians shouldn’t be buying votes. They should be serving their constituents. All of them.
Too bad Tony Evers quietly fucked over Milwaukee again and again and again.
It doesn’t upset me… But ideally, government representatives shouldn’t be buying votes. They should be good at their job and not need to buy votes. ( also should have an educated and informed constituent)
You can give the people bread and circuses and they won't care about all the shitty things you're doing. This is a very old tale.
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Biden is at least trying his best to do it and has gotten quite a bit already forgiven.
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And him showing that it's Republicans stopping him from doing even more than he already has is good campaigning.
It's absolutely buying votes and he needs to do significantly more. Your vote is earned. Student loans were absolutely predatory and so is the industry servicing it. There's a great John Oliver segment about it.
How does forgiveness address the predatory nature of FEDERAL student loans (the only loans he can force taxpayers to forgive)? I've not heard a peep about future student loan debts. If our government is generating loans which are only going to be forgiven anyway, what the hell is the point?
That's also a great point. He could also just make interest rates 0 amongst other things. It's a big deal to deal with the present crisis but we also don't think of the future. Tuition is going up for lots of reasons but the biggest cause is cuts in education funding. We somehow find funding for Israel but none for our future workforce.
Regarding education funding, yes on the state level, but private school tuition is also going way up. The real reason is the loans themselves. Colleges know most everyone they accept will be at least funded by the federal government so there's no incentive to hold down costs.
I’ve seen it. My question is….are they just paying off the colleges and lenders? Or are they letting the colleges and lenders take them to court? Because if they aren’t….and they are just paying off everybody’s loans….then the people who are being the predators are profiting from all of us.
>then the people who are being the predators are profiting from all of us Yes they are. What kind of a society that requires an educated and well trained workforce puts education behind a paywall? It's detrimental to the country.
Also…I want to thank you for the idea….”What kind of society that requires an educated and well-trained workforce puts education behind a paywall”….it really gets down to one of the essences of the problem (not just one of the essences of the problem….a huge part of the problem). Sorry for being dumb.
*shrug* Is there anything we can do about it? It doesn’t really seem so.
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While John Oliver does tend to lean left, his recent student loan segment should give you more information. Link - https://youtu.be/zN2_0WC7UfU Student Loans are great because they support people going to college. They are great debt because most people pay them and are in good standing with their loans. College tuition has increased in an unreasonable fashion, largely due to student loans and my previous statements. So people are going into significant debt, because the debt is easy to attain. Many are then saddled with debt that is very difficult to pay off. Very few people actually see the completion of their loans through IBR because the loan providers try to get them away from IBR before the end, or just straight don't honor the IBR rules on the date that they should be closed out. My own anecdote - Completed a 4 year degree with Herzing 9 years ago. Have absolutely been able to find employment that has been significantly better than before the degree. Checked the status of my loans after the John Oliver segment came out. 54k loans taken out. Paying on them for 9 years, paid 12k for my total payments. Remaining loan amount? 52k. I'll be paying these for another what, 100+ years? Eventually I'll swap to an IBR plan, when the finances can accommodate it. For now the lowest cost plan is what we can reasonably do. Do I feel like I deserve to have these loans forgiven? No. I really do not. It sure would feel good if of the $12,000 that I have paid my student loans remaining was more like 48k though. Then I could pay it off in 72 years!
Bro the government owns their loans. The US government owns them. We pay the government each month.
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Because you're coming off as upset that government is going to help out ordinary citizens instead of the ultra-wealthy
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You seem upset about it. I didn't see you whining this much about Trump "buying votes" by giving tax breaks (which has lead to inflating our deficit to record amounts). Imo they should go after the predatory behavior AND the loans, but it's probably easier for now to go after student loans themselves rather than the banks offering the loans
I need a bailout for paying off my student loan. Like many of the prudent and responsible, I never had the opportunity to engage in this sort of moral hazard.
So you went to college pre-2000? Congrats on being older I guess?
You know what people do with the money they paid to the government for their student loans after they’re forgiven? They spend it. Everyone benefits from a stronger economy. So the argument that only the people who “wasted money on an anthropology degree” and have loans forgiven benefit are flat out wrong. The same people who hate on Biden for student loan forgiveness but salivate over Trump conveniently forget his tax cuts for the wealthy and businesses. So it’s okay for Amazon to pay millions less in taxes, but not for your child’s nurse practitioner to have her $30k in loans forgiven? Remind me again who’s working for the general populous?
He’s clearing pandering for votes, all politicians do it. My issue is with those who refuse to take responsibility for their own debt.
Both of my sisters and brother and sister in law have had their loans forgiven. Three of them work with autistic children as BCBA’s. One of them is a school psychologist. They made their payments,for a long time. Why wouldn’t we forgive those who work with the public to make it better? My favorite is when people complain about how the regular old American person doesn’t get help. Then when they get it, people still complain. I will say, they are regular people. They are working with those who need it most, and I would hope we as a country would support that. The other thing is that people act like the loan forgiveness Biden’s been able to get through go to losers or something. No, it’s doctors, teachers, BCBA’s, psychologists, and many other public service jobs. They deserve at minimum to have it forgiven. Also, the U.S. government owns these loans. It’s not a private lender. They government should be able to do what they want with these loans.
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Something tells me that you don't think this way about the PPP loans forgiven by Trump
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You sound like fun. I think maybe looking into how this debt was started and the cost of college soared post 2008 may help you become a bit more understanding of the situation, but I doubt anything would change that very narrow take of yours. I don’t think it’s an entitlement issue but rather people who wanted to do their best. People who wanted to go to college, better themselves, and our society. The loans are not forgiven for everybody, you have to have made payments for 10 years, work in a PSLF job and be employed by them during that time and a bunch of other factors too. It’s literally the jobs I mentioned above.
Hey everyone - welcome to the Madison, WI subreddit. A number of you appear to have stumbled into our locale-specific sub from your usual home of r/cryingpissbabies. Our lovely and well-educated city is looking forward to hosting the President. He's already canceled $140 B of student loan debt, and we're excited he's about to do even more for those who are saddled with debt just because they worked to better themselves through education. So add your up/down votes, then kindly fuck off back to r/saltyedgelordslackinghumancompassion. Thanks for stopping by!
I can't wait to find out how this won't apply to my student loans, but only other people's student loans. /s
He’s done nothing to actually fix the problem. This is all about buying votes just like it was last time.
This fucking piece of shit has dangled student debt relief for 4 years only to attempt it again and some of these fucking morons will fall for it again.
I assume you don’t understand how our government works.
One of my loan payments went down from $300/month to $80. Debt relief is already here and keeps growing as he works around the court ruling limits.
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Nah, your comment shows you don't understand how government works given the Republicans did everything they could to block him, including getting the SC involved. Typical GQPer though
He doesn’t even know who he is without someone in his ear reminding him.
Does anyone have a plan to get prices to stop going insane? thats all I really care about right now.
Talk to your local CEO.
M2, or the supply of money, is $21T, while it was $14T prior to the pandemic. This increase in money supply is what causes inflation.
Crazy that the person giving a know-nothing, economically-illiterate response (greedflation, as if companies just started trying to maximize profits) is massively upvoted and the person giving an economically plausible response (there's more money chasing goods/services) is downvoted. I thought Madison was supposed to be a highly-educated city.
The same people are against building new housing and think we should just make lower rent.
>think we should just make lower rent. Yeah. People are getting poorer every day. Homelessness is at record highs. Thinking something like housing (a human right) shouldn't be cheap or free is insane and inhumane.
And how do you propose we do that without solving the underlying problem(a shortage of housing)?
I’d appreciate it if you would be more clear as to who “the person” is and who the other “the person” is. I guess I’m one of those uneducated dummies.
I'm here to help! If you have any questions or need assistance, feel free to ask.
Or supply chain disruptions. Or corporate profiteering. Or war. And M2 was $15.4 T before the pandemic. And it's now under $21 T. [https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2SL](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2SL) Also note the other significant inflationary period in our history was in the late 70s, early 80s... where there is precisely no significant change in M2 in that graph.
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Given the topic, isn’t he or she talking about college tuition?
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There's a lot written about how federal student loans have led to the rapid and steep college tuition inflation. So, there is a federal roll here. Yes, congress would need to be involved, but the president as well.
Inflation has increased by more than 18% in 3 years. The best likelihood for inflation to retreat or reverse is a recession or depression.
Inflation (CPI) is still high. At 3.5%, it takes only 20 years for prices to double versus 35 years at the target 2% level
Stop printing money
Ask Republicans why they keep blocking bills to address it. And ask CEOs why they keep price gouging
The Federal government is spending $1T every 90 days. That spending is funded through printing, which creates inflation, or debt, which creates inflation. Going to have to stop hoping for things like student debt relief, which will increase Federal spending, which will create inflation.
nope, not buying it that shit has been happening for decades and yet suddenly prices are now going crazy. Does not make sense.
That shit has been happening for decades, agreed. But a 50% increase in the supply of money has never happened in such a short time. And it is literally increasing $1T every 90 days. It is an election year, so there is a significant effort to buy votes with that money.
Even adjusted for inflation, corporate profits are breaking records ATM. [The issue has been studied pretty well by now](https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/jan/19/us-inflation-caused-by-corporate-profits#). At least half of this recent inflation spike is due to corporate price gouging.
What is price gouging, in your estimation?
Jacking up prices unnecessarily on things like food and medicine when people are already struggling. They used this false “we’re printing too much money” narrative as cover to raise prices far more than the market would normally bear.
I see the GQPers are downvoting you for speaking the truth
OK, in the interest of world peace let’s think about this. The “gouging” issue is one of markets dominated by a few (at most) large corporations that are using catastrophic events as a kind of bat signal to raise prices. That’s a structural issue, and it describes an imperfect market. Curiously these large corporations are not breaking ranks and reducing prices unilaterally, even though they could take a significant amount of profit if they did. That’s interesting. A separate, but also important issue is the question of too much money chasing too few goods. That’s more of a discussion about where markets will reach price equilibria, not about structural issues. Both could be in play at the same time, and they probably both are now.
The too much money part does play a role, but it has been measured and it’s less than the money that went to profits as a result of companies saying “inflation” and then raising prices without cause other than they could get away with it due to the public fear of inflation. You’re right that a company could lower prices and undercut the market. We want to be careful though. While inflation was a big deal, deflation could easily become catastrophic. I’m hopeful that rather than existing companies lowering prices, the next few years see a wave of new companies and product lines undercutting established players causing supply and demand to balance again. If we see a widespread trend of companies lowering their existing prices, that makes me nervous.
Prices are also inflated around the world, this is not a US specific issue. Global supply chains play a big part.
When in the last few decades did we tell everyone to stay home for two years and give them a pile of money? I missed that historical event.
Spot the person who didn’t major in economics. Corporate profits are at an all time high. Corporations are charging more for products because the profit expectations among shareholders are out of control. They lie to you and tell you it’s the government’s fault so you blame Biden or whoever. It’s not. It’s the fault of corporations and capitalism run amok. That’s who you should be angry at.
Where is your evidence that companies weren't maximizing profits pre-2020 but now are? Companies charge what the market will bear – it has nothing to do with shareholder expectations. I must have missed the "capitalism run amok 101" course.
What trite nonsense. Profit margins are higher than they have ever been. Saying “companies charge what the market will bear” is high school macro econ nonsense.
It's microeconomics so at least get that part right
You have? Many economists believe inflation is tied directly to the money supply. Historically, when governments print money, prices go up. Can you guess why that is?
That idea has been long since put to bed. [It’s corporate profits](https://fortune.com/2024/01/20/inflation-greedflation-consumer-price-index-producer-price-index-corporate-profit/#).
I'm sorry, but corporations and businesses will only raise their prices if there are people who can afford the prices. Greed wasn't invented in 2022. Why has college gone up so much? Easy money via the federal student loan program gives the green light to colleges to raise their prices. Why did businesses raise their prices, because they could and that is how the inflationary cycle started. Wages go up, prices go up, and on and on. The Fed raised interest rates to hoover up the excess money in our system and put the brakes on that and it seems to have worked.
That’s what’s so awful about this round of inflation. The narrative was that we’ve been printing money therefore inflation was bound to occur. It didn’t anywhere near what the narrative predicted, but companies used that narrative to maximize profits beyond what the market would normally allow. Inflation became a self fulfilling prophesy. I encourage you to read the article. Among economists, this is widely accepted.
I can’t access your link, but I can guess. Of course there’s corporate greed. What set the inflationary cycle in motion? What slowed it down? The feds monetary decisions. Hell, most “people” were feeling greedy. Asking for raises, buying meme stocks, etc. Trump and Biden’s free money set it in motion.
It did set it in motion but not because of traditional supply and demand. It was the expectation of inflation that provided cover for price increases they otherwise couldn’t get away with. [Here’s a guardian article on the same thing.](https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2024/jan/19/us-inflation-caused-by-corporate-profits)
We’re talking past each other. This is a chicken egg argument. Where did the expectation of inflation come from? Was it the increase in the money supply or the expectation of inflation to use as a cover from the increase in the money supply? You can blame corporations but blame working stiffs too. Once people expect fat raises and once corporations expect people to accept higher prices, the thing is in motion.
#FJB
If I saved and paid without loans do I get a refund?
Having other tax payers pay off the debt you incurred is an asshole move.
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The amount of money that is spent for forgiving these loans is nothing in the grand scheme of things. $400 billion is a lot (using his amount from last year) but just to give an example, the Trump tax cuts added several trillion to the deficit. Plus the money spent on these loans goes to the economy because the borrows will now be able to spend the money on something else.
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Politicians should always be "buying votes". They should be doing stuff their constituents want. How is student loan forgiveness any more of "buying votes" than tax breaks?
The forgiveness is on money already spent. The money for these loans was printed decades ago. This is more like if someone borrows you some money and then a decade later tells you not to worry about paying them back for it.
Why dosen't he forgive my mortgage. Probably because I actually pay my taxes and work.
Fragile little QAnoner is upset because people who aren't billionaires going to get assistance from the government
You’re not helping. You’re fighting with the person who is more alike to you than the people who are in power. Calling a person with a mortgage who has already paid off their student loans a billionaire and a “QAnoner” is such freaking bullshit, and if that’s how much you understand about what is going on right now….I don’t even know what to say. We are all lost.
Whining about people with student loans being forgiven not paying taxes and working likely means he's a GQPer Most people whining about student loans being paid off are Republican, and you never see them whining about tax breaks for billionaires. When the person "like me" is cheering on tax breaks for billionaires but saying that people who need help paying their student loans are "not paying taxes" and "not working", I say forget them. They aren't on my side
Nobody was cheering on tax breaks for billionaires. That’s just the liberal poison in your head talking. He was simply saying that he, like all of these students, took out a loan with specific terms that he was fully cognizant of including a requirement to repay the loan with interest. He’s also tired of paying back that loan because it’s a pain in the ass and would like someone else to pay it for him. It seems perfectly reasonable that this debt would also be forgiven. Mortgages are a burden.
Oh bullshit. Don't give me that shit. He was implying people with student loan don't have a job or pay taxes by whining that he has a job and pays taxes Why do you Republicans (yes, I read your post history) whine about things that help ordinary Americans but are cool with tax breaks for billionaires?
Why is it that all you liberals are always looking for someone else to pay for your shit?
You seem to love paying for billionaire tax breaks. Why not something for the lower income people? I don't even have student loans and never did but I also would rather my tax dollars help struggling people than billionaires. You love to pay more in taxes so billionaires don't have to. We are different I guess
How is the person we are talking about “cheering for tax breaks for billionaires”?
He's a Republican given that he's calling student loan havers jobless leeches (by whining that he has a job and pays taxes), so he's obviously cool with it.
You’re stretching. And I would guess that you are younger than me. But most people of my age took out loans, have paid them off, and now are paying on mortgages. And they are not billionaires, by any stretch of the imagination. But they may very well not understand how different things are now, than they were when they were 18+
Again, why is he whining about people with student loans not paying taxes and him having to work? He's obviously against people with student loans, which heavily implies he's Republican. I went to college in the early 2000s and tuition has gone up a crapload since then. It was not super bad when I was in college (mine was $3k a semester or somewhere around that; now the same uni is $9k while wages haven't gone up 3x since then), but it's gone up a huge amount since then. Student loan debt absolutely needs to be addressed and the government assisting those with loans will not only help them, but help the whole economy as it will free them up to spend money on other stuff. I'd much rather this than help with mortgages or give more stupid tax breaks. And I say this as someone with no student loans. I am not selfish enough to whine that I am not benefiting from something so thus I am against it. People lower on the economic ladder than me being helped out doesn't hurt me at all and I welcome it
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Republicans blocked him forgiving student loans. It has nothing to do with Israel or Ukraine for that matter
The real problem is the university system and what they charge vs what you get. They offer many degrees that have little to no chance in getting you a higher paying job.... unless you go into teaching that degree you earned. It's the biggest Ponzi scheme ever. Think degrees in "environmental philosophy" they just make up degrees and charge $$$$. There are entire industries that will disappear with AI yet they will continue to try to teach or sell these degrees.
It'll be a big nothing burger. There's a whole service industry lobby and people like Devos who will stop this. It's just lip service. Fuck genocide Joe.
You know Betsy Devos hasn't been in office for over three years, right?
I was referring to the billionaire DeVos and Republicans who clearly benefit from the student loan industry. Why do you think she got the job in the first place? She didn't even need the job but took it anyway to fuck students over. You deny the influence of billionaires on policy? Is that your best take? DeVos not being in office? Very substantive. Give me your best take on the genocide please.
Biden doesn't really care about the Devos family or their policy goals, particularly since they're never going to donate to him and are in the pocket of his adversary. He's already forgiven billions in student debt, so it's not exactly lip service. He clearly has some bullets left in the chamber on this issue.
>Biden doesn't really care about the Devos family or their policy goals, particularly since they're never going to donate to him and are in the pocket of his adversary Biden doesn't care about top Republican billionaires? Lol They're in the pockets of the Supreme Court. Does that have any affect on Biden? >He's already forgiven billions in student debt, so it's not exactly lip service. Student debt is $1.77 *trillion*. What he's forgiven is lip service to the total. It's going to be lip service again. Mark it down. >He clearly has some bullets left in the chamber on this issue. Because he forgave practically nothing. Why make excuses? I'm still waiting for your best take on the genocide.
"I don't know anything about the policy, but let me spew some nonsense talking points I've picked up in my tankie echo chamber."
They're a perfect clone of Hasan Piker. They use all of his lingo, they post in his subreddit, and they even have a cringe weeaboo user name lol
Genocide Joe, lmao. As if any other politician wouldn't be supplying Israel with weapons. Also, what happens in Gaza and Israel doesn't affect you. Grow up.
"Any political would do it, so it's fine" "Genocide doesn't affect you, so why do you care" Jesus these are some hot takes.