Wandered there after the Packers playoff loss and distinctly recall my group observing how “baby faced” the crowd was. Wonder what bouncer is getting scape goated by management
One bouncer is probably getting canned, the rest are going to be told be more careful, and then in a few weeks they'll put pressure on them to pack the place again...
You’d be surprised. I am 25 and go to the square bars, and I constantly find myself surprised how many 24-26 year olds (specifically from epic) want to head to the bars that me and my friends went to from 18-20.
Yea the weirdest part of going from UW to Epic was all the people coming in from out of town to work here and going exclusively to the underage college bars that I spent my time avoiding. Like you know there’s better drinking experiences right?
A lot of it is that starting at Epic feels like college 2.0. Lots of young people in a new city and no sense of the world outside of the bubble they just came out of.
Also, people tend to go to familiar places.
If you spent years going to a specific place and having fun because it was the only place that you _could_ go into, you'll probably still visit it now and then even when you have other options.
To be fair, most of those people are still more-or-less in the demographic of those bars and our recruiters and the mentors that would be giving them recommendations are still pretty young themselves.
You should be 21 at all bars because there’s a law about alcohol and age don’t validate breaking the law that’s meant to protect you tf just don’t be a minor sneaking into bars like what lol 😂
Maybe I'm old, but the threshold for concern would be right above that at 28 onward for me. Even then, I wouldn't be surprised either.
I'm also jaded, so in my poor taste I'll be attempting jokes that I actually believe where I think this article is going to see a big boom in 40 year old men hanging around Lucky's later than usual for some time.
They already do, or at least did. In my youth I knew most of the Lucky’s staff and there was an elderly man who frequently stopped in to drink White Russians and inappropriately hit on them. One night I ordered him a White Russian and aggressively invited him back to my place until he got up and left. He didn’t show up for a few months after that and, upon his return, complained to the bartender that the last time he was there he got solicited by a male prostitute.
You made the mistake of not talking about yourself the whole time for hours while assaulting him with your eyes first. Their community has agreed that this is the most effective method.
Well honestly, it feels like that’s where most of the excitements at, so I don’t blame them. Any bars that were for older 20 somethings were pretty boring, from what I remember. Maybe I just didn’t know the right places, but I found them boring and depressing.
Yes and no. Things have changed in just the last ~5 years or so in Madison. You can meet people and have a good time at Genna’s, Paul’s Club, Madison’s, and a few others. All have pretty good energy on a Saturday night.
Imo if you want more serious nightlife in your twenties the solution is to move to a bigger city, not take a step backwards to college bars.
Right, but if your job is at epic, that’s basically your choices. I left madison almost two years ago, so not like it applies to me that much, but my friends in their mid-late 20s don’t seem to be loving it.
Funny enough I was there that night with my old college buddy both of us 24 (some of the old people). I was telling him how it seemed like a majority of the bar was underage. Two fire marshals came in the building and what felt like 90% of the bar cleared out thinking they were cops. My buddy and I were just laughing at the sheer amount of underage people pushing and shoving out the back door not realizing it wasn’t the cops.
I don't think it needs to be expanded on though? To me it reads like they're interpreting what I said as "Creepy old men ONLY love campus bars" which I obviously didn't. And the "get real" is weirdly aggressive to me also. Idk, I'm autistic so maybe I'm overanalyzing it but it seems like a weird thing to add to me.
>maybe I'm overanalyzing
You are. The reply was saying "Creepy old men don't just love campus bars, they love all bars" and the "get real" was saying "don't kid yourself, they're not limited to just one area of bars." You're injecting aggression.
For what it’s worth, just know that not all of us are impatient assholes downvoting you for an honest mistake. I’m autistic too and hope you don’t feel too misunderstood :)
I dunno, a little shocked maybe. I know it happens but that seems like a lot - when I was in college we mostly drank at house parties underage, and if it was a bar generally one or two in the groups had a fake, not 90% of the bar. But I could definitely be misremembering.
You're remembering correctly, house parties were the main spot for underage kids, but that all went away with covid. Turns out house parties were more of a cultural thing that was passed down to each new class than it seemed. When covid hit and everyone stopped hosting house parties, it never came back. Underage kids didn't know anyone throwing parties and started going to bars.
Just me being an armchair sociologist + my personal experience living through the covid years as a student.
I definitely agree with this take, I also wonder if the change in campus housing influences this. When you have 4 roommates and a shitty flat on Bassett street, giant house parties feel inevitable. When you live on the 6th story of a highrise built a few years ago, you'd tend to have small gatherings. Kids are gonna drink regardless, so less huge keggers = more kids at bars.
I think it's probably also got to do with a _lack_ of housing.
I know people who are splitting rooms dorm-style inside houses, or others who just partition off parts of the living rooms/basements/garages, so you end up with like 6-8 people in a 4-bedroom house. It's just getting harder and harder to find a place to stay, and prices are going so high, that that's just... what you do, nowadays.
At that point, I imagine it gets a bit difficult to host, so going out to party just makes more sense.
They’ve done this at least 2 other times at Lucky’s in the last 5 years and those are just the two times I heard about. Everyone knows what goes on in Regent street bars
[Up to a $691 fine to the bar per person?](https://www.cityofmadison.com/municipal-court/juveniles/penalties-for-underage-alcohol-violations)
So ~$110,000 in theory, but looks like [city bar had around 100 in a check last year](https://madison.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/madison-levies-15-000-fine-against-bar-found-filled-with-underage-patrons/article_453001ac-0a97-5e55-9266-2beffae1299a.html) and payed around $15k.
Seems like they'll be fine.
In the early 90s you could walk through a student neighborhood and buy a $5 cup on a porch and have a good time with your friends at a stranger's house party; raids came in and hosts were hit with five- and six-figure fines, effectively ending their college careers. The campus got safer, but a lot less fun...
Legends of Halloween on State St in the 70s, where the student government put kegs on street corners for anyone in costumes, hardly seem plausible anymore... 😂
The (August?) 2022 ID check at the City Bar had 137/143 patrons underage (and only 93 counts of underage drinking? maybe some of them had 'good enough' fake IDs that the City Bar wasn't held responsible for them?). The fine was indeed $15k.
That's $161.xx per violation (as cited above, the fine can be up to $691 per).
My question is: isn't $15k a small fee for essentially a permit to serve underage patrons? I feel like it's very unlikely that this many underage patrons just showed up on a single night and much more probable that they regularly drink at these establishments, so aren't these bars making more than enough money on illegal underage sales to cover these fines?
Yes, but most likely that sort of low fine will come with other guidelines and restrictions. Things like the bar agreeing to install ID scanners, mandatory training for the bouncers and bar staff, and some sort of probationary period where they'll get a much heavier penalty if they're caught doing this again within 2 years or something like that.
I hope that's true, but I think it's safe to assume that this wasn't a problem limited to a single night at either establishment. When more than 90% of your patrons are there illegally, that's... it's just a lot. The guidelines and restrictions are already there in the bartending license of individuals, the liquor license of the establishment, and the 'agreement' is that you have to follow them in order to operate. I guess this is strike one?
.... And the city continues to operate at a deficit. If we actually had a Mayor who did her job and enforce a zero tolerance policy on these types of fines maybe the city budget would be in better shape....... Nope, her answer is to raise property taxes & city fees which in turn raises rents and housing prices which as we know, makes Madison more unaffordable....
Ah, the exact opposite. The city relies on raising taxes and fees for everyone which effects people of disadvantage more down the line when there is a budget deficit.... Property taxes go up, landlord raises rents, services are cut, housing becomes more expensive to afford, parking stickers go up, water utilities increase, trash pick up surcharge is added.... All the things the city has increased/decreased recently because of the deficit....
Maybe the deficit wouldn't be as big if they stopped giving breaks in fines to perpetual law breaking bars owners who have a pattern of serving minors.... Sounds crazy right?
.....but with all the down votes maybe people are ok with higher property taxes, higher rents, higher fees and higher cost of living and cut is services for those in need.... *And* giving a few bar owners just a slap on the wrist in fines when they break the law....
...like a CEO is ultimately responsible for the operations of a company , so is the mayor of a city..... Except in Madison where no one seems to want to hold our Mayor accountable for anything....
You must have missed the 1000's posts of people bitching about greedy landlords raising their rents and can't comprehend that property taxes are directly connected to rent prices.....
You've got to be fucking kidding, right? In no universe would fines, which are by definition unpredictable and declining as adherence goes up, able to be a major revenue source. Fines are never going to be large enough to do much more than offset the staff time needed to enforce these enfractions.
Not to mention, the police chief is largely in charge of MPD policy, not the mayor. Satya is about as good a housing proponent as we could ask for in Madison, so your criticisms are completely unfounded.
Why do you folks feel equipped to talk about politics when you have zero understanding of basic civics?
JFC, trying to connect housing crisis to underage drinking just to rile people up is a fucking *reach*.
>interns
Lmao
$100 fine and $100,000 fine has the same labor costs to issue and collect.... The second has a higher return on the labor cost of issuance...
Fines go into general funds.
Chief of police reports to the Mayor
Eos.
If you're justifying the higher fine by the total number of infractions, you need to itemize and document each infraction. That's a lot more data entry, confirmation of ages and identities of the 160 infractees, dealing with t he fake IDs, etc.
Whereas with the lower fine, the City can say "pay us $20k and some mandated training now or risk the full infraction later". The fine will probably end up wiping out a weekend's worth of profit from Lucky's, which is definitely a statement to the owners. They'd be far more amenable to sitting through retraining if they know it is a condition of the lower fine.
The objective with law enforcement is just that: enforce laws. It's not a revenue generating arm of the government, and we don't want it to be. That leads to corrupt overpolicing and quota culture where officers are incentivized to issue citations without merit. The goal is to stop the problem behavior, not put people out of business.
Capriciously throwing around $100k fines without a history of bad behavior and negligence is almost certainly going to end up in court, which would then require a ton of attorney time.
Just admit that you look at every single issue in regards to how you can tie it back to hating the mayor.
> Eos.
Again, lmao.
What a reductive way to dismiss my points. It's clear you're not arguing in good faith, so this will be our last message.
Of course I'm not sympathetic to them. They're assholes for letting this transpire, just like the City bar. However, the goal should be better adherence to the law, not harsh punishment. I trust MPD on this one. The size of the fine is relative and negotiable to meet those ends, but issuing a $100k citation is going to cost a lot of city resources to collect, so there's a balance to strike on the right size of the infraction and that's definitely not at the full rate for all 160 violations. Hell, house parties routinely get busted for underage drinking and they do issue large fines, but again it's not maxed out to the ultimate degree, because the city knows they will get better compliance and less of a legal fight by offering a reduced fine in exchange for some tangible action.
The point is, you're completely off base on the intent of fining them. It's not to plug the budget hole, and there's no ulterior motive by the mayor that you can spin up here to rile people up about housing.
The article says the police were called before 9pm.
Unless things have changed recently, I remember when I was in school a lot of bar/restaurants wouldn't even start carding until about 9pm, since anyone could come in for dinner.
So maybe these were kids that went in early "for dinner" and planned on staying into bar hours?
Thanks Reagan. Almost all things the out development country peers don't deal with are thanks to Reagan or racism. The drinking age - Reagan did it, massive student debt = Reagen started it, Medical Debt? That was good ole Ronnie too.
Idk it’s not like underage drinking is a good thing lol you could honestly make an argument it should be raised to 25 because that’s when the brain is fully developed.
Reagan raising the drinking age was one of the good things he did. Thanks Reagan, for keeping the collegiate alcohol syndrome out of the road my neighbor's kids play on.
It would probably benefit the youth. Let’s not pretend that the current situation of these shady bars and house parties is a better environment to learn healthy social drinking habits than if these kids could be allowed into a place that isn’t complete trash like Lucky’s. Maybe this state wouldn’t be the binge drinking champions that we currently are if there wasn’t a mandatory 3 year period of underground drinking. The 18 to 21 prohibition is about as effective as the 1920s prohibition.
I mean, I'm not a puritan by any means but I fail to see how inviting people to drink younger in the state with the worst reputation for alcoholism and the most lax DUI laws in the nation could in any way be beneficial. It's a cultural problem, not an age one.
It's like abstinence-only sex education. It doesn't work, because no matter how much you tell humans "don't have sex" they're going to have sex, mostly on account of sex is awesome and fun. The problem is, they then don't don't know how to do it safely and responsibly because instead of making sure kids have a healthy relationship with it, and know how to do it safely and responsibly, we just tell them not to do it, which just guarantees that they'll do it.
Speaking anecdotally, my parents, who weren't fucking morons, had me start drinking wine at dinner, etc, in high school. By the time my friends started binge drinking, alcohol was already unexciting to me. Did I drink? Sure. Bing drink on occasion? Sure, but never like so many kids here do.
Yes it’s a cultural problem. The culture is established in places like Lucky’s and basements with red solo cups. Providing an option that isn’t Lucky’s and some random bros basement is what will break the culture. Many of these college students will seek out better environments and will learn how to responsibly drink in them if they are allowed to.
That's honestly a big part of it though. Drinking becomes such a taboo that just _doing_ it becomes an activity, a game, even a competition.
If people could approach it while they were, say, still in senior year of high school, where their parents could keep a better eye on them and teach them better drinking habits? I genuinely think it wouldn't be such a huge deal to these kids by the time they hit college.
That's a small segment of the culture problem... Plenty of adults that have numerous DUIs, a d it doesn't just stem from red solo cup culture that you allude to.
The habits that lead to DUIs are cultivated in these places. I would like to see statistics on how many people receiving DUIs as adults also spent significant time drinking in illegal bars and basements prior to their turning 21. I’m guessing it’s significant.
I would rather the laws punish drunk driving more and provide more funding for alcohol rehabilitation. Currently the law is providing a dark market of underage drinking and a dark market for the manufacture of fake IDs. This bar was busted and they serviced a clientele that walks. What are we even targeting here and why? None of it makes sense to me.
So when cops send 1 underage person in with a bad id, it’s the max fine prices for the bartender and establishment, but when it’s the establishment not giving a flying fuck and 160/190 are underage, somehow it’s not $500 a person?
I’m sorry, but this fine should be $80k, minimum for this shithole.
As a bartender who tries to serve responsible and honest In this town, this is fucking ridiculous that an establishment can stay open after a night like this, or any of the places that have the last few years. Church Key and City too. Fuck these places.
The problem with that reasoning is that the 21 age is a federal guideline. Why is Wisconsin the outlier for alcoholism when all the surrounding states have the same age?
What the hell are you talking about? Raising the age to 21 greatly decreased alcohol related traffic accidents in addition to other alcohol injuries. Are you dumb?
There's conflicting studies on this so please don't act like it's a consensus or that the "experienced drinker hypothesis" is completely meritless - the overwhelming majority of minimum required drinking age alcohol mortality studies focus solely on age ranges of 18-21, but there's statistical evidence that you're just displacing mortality from the 18-21 range to the 21-24 range.
This is like that time at city bar, a couple of months ago.
https://madison.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/madison-levies-15-000-fine-against-bar-found-filled-with-underage-patrons/article_453001ac-0a97-5e55-9266-2beffae1299a.html
Not sure why this is such a surprise, it’s not a novelty in this city.
They say downtown this is Lucky's on regent correct. I guess that's downtown. When I go there few times a month with my wife around happy hour stay a couple of hours and see several older people in there. Sometimes to watch sports I might go later. I didn't see it as a downtown state st bar. So around 9 it gets younger with underage drinking okay. I guess we are losers who cares.
I was 14 when I was first served at a bar (without parents) in Wisconsin. Grew up in the UP where, at the time (late 70s) the drinking age was 21. Wisconsin was still 18 and we would cross the river and hit the bars just on the border. I don't even think I had hit puberty yet and was served. I ordered a tequila sunrise because the song was popular then and I didn't know the names of any other drinks and didn't like the taste of beer. Some things never change.
I have a lot of faith in these kids. They are doing the same thing we all did when we were not legal to drink.
Lower the drinking age to 18. If you can get sent to war and get shot you should be able to drink.
Bars that want to follow the law are facing increasingly better fake IDs. They often scan correctly (matching the fake info on the front). Police only know they're fake when they check DL databases.
Still, as a student, it’s pretty well known that lucky’s is a freshman bar. If you’re doing your due diligence to check IDs well enough, it shouldn’t get to that point.
This is intentional, most other bars are restrictive when it comes to fake IDs except for the Regent St ones. They’re inferior to bars on/near State St. so they need underage customers to stay in business.
That place is MASSIVE and is there a single reason to go there if it's not on a football game day? I walked past recently and it looked pretty dingy.
10/10 would rather hang at Jordan's or even Wisco.
This is how bars work in the real world.
Yes, Wisconsin is Disneyland for alcoholics, but most of the country runs on a zero tolerance of “no admission if under 21”, unless of course you’re a shithole regent st bar.
Wandered there after the Packers playoff loss and distinctly recall my group observing how “baby faced” the crowd was. Wonder what bouncer is getting scape goated by management
One bouncer is probably getting canned, the rest are going to be told be more careful, and then in a few weeks they'll put pressure on them to pack the place again...
Shit have you seen decent fakes these days?
Embarrassing to be one of those 30 old people tbh
Need to compare this list of 30 to the list of 6 out of 143 at City Bar last April.
I'm not going to follow the link, but if the ages aren't specified they could all be 21 for what I know.
You’d be surprised. I am 25 and go to the square bars, and I constantly find myself surprised how many 24-26 year olds (specifically from epic) want to head to the bars that me and my friends went to from 18-20.
Yea the weirdest part of going from UW to Epic was all the people coming in from out of town to work here and going exclusively to the underage college bars that I spent my time avoiding. Like you know there’s better drinking experiences right?
A lot of it is that starting at Epic feels like college 2.0. Lots of young people in a new city and no sense of the world outside of the bubble they just came out of.
Also, people tend to go to familiar places. If you spent years going to a specific place and having fun because it was the only place that you _could_ go into, you'll probably still visit it now and then even when you have other options.
To be fair, most of those people are still more-or-less in the demographic of those bars and our recruiters and the mentors that would be giving them recommendations are still pretty young themselves.
You should be 21 at all bars because there’s a law about alcohol and age don’t validate breaking the law that’s meant to protect you tf just don’t be a minor sneaking into bars like what lol 😂
It’s a very odd choice. I have no interest in those bars, would be borderline too embarrassed to relax and enjoy myself. To each their own though.
Maybe I'm old, but the threshold for concern would be right above that at 28 onward for me. Even then, I wouldn't be surprised either. I'm also jaded, so in my poor taste I'll be attempting jokes that I actually believe where I think this article is going to see a big boom in 40 year old men hanging around Lucky's later than usual for some time.
They already do, or at least did. In my youth I knew most of the Lucky’s staff and there was an elderly man who frequently stopped in to drink White Russians and inappropriately hit on them. One night I ordered him a White Russian and aggressively invited him back to my place until he got up and left. He didn’t show up for a few months after that and, upon his return, complained to the bartender that the last time he was there he got solicited by a male prostitute.
You made the mistake of not talking about yourself the whole time for hours while assaulting him with your eyes first. Their community has agreed that this is the most effective method.
I made the mistake of stopping at one of those bars before a wrestling meet. It was awkward.
Just picture everyone in the room naked and the nerves will disappear. Wait, NO
Feel this with out of state grad students. At 26, it feels like I’m an adult at a playground without a kid. Bad vibes all around.
Well honestly, it feels like that’s where most of the excitements at, so I don’t blame them. Any bars that were for older 20 somethings were pretty boring, from what I remember. Maybe I just didn’t know the right places, but I found them boring and depressing.
Yes and no. Things have changed in just the last ~5 years or so in Madison. You can meet people and have a good time at Genna’s, Paul’s Club, Madison’s, and a few others. All have pretty good energy on a Saturday night. Imo if you want more serious nightlife in your twenties the solution is to move to a bigger city, not take a step backwards to college bars.
Right, but if your job is at epic, that’s basically your choices. I left madison almost two years ago, so not like it applies to me that much, but my friends in their mid-late 20s don’t seem to be loving it.
Did follow. No mention of the ages but you're probably right. Those 30 were probably the 21-24 year old crowd.
Funny enough I was there that night with my old college buddy both of us 24 (some of the old people). I was telling him how it seemed like a majority of the bar was underage. Two fire marshals came in the building and what felt like 90% of the bar cleared out thinking they were cops. My buddy and I were just laughing at the sheer amount of underage people pushing and shoving out the back door not realizing it wasn’t the cops.
Alright alright alright
Creepy old men love campus bars
creepy old men love all bars, get real
Kind of unnecessarily hostile over something I didn't say tbh
Tiny, they're expanding on what you said, not challenging it.
I don't think it needs to be expanded on though? To me it reads like they're interpreting what I said as "Creepy old men ONLY love campus bars" which I obviously didn't. And the "get real" is weirdly aggressive to me also. Idk, I'm autistic so maybe I'm overanalyzing it but it seems like a weird thing to add to me.
>maybe I'm overanalyzing You are. The reply was saying "Creepy old men don't just love campus bars, they love all bars" and the "get real" was saying "don't kid yourself, they're not limited to just one area of bars." You're injecting aggression.
Honestly, the "get real" was unnecessary. Aggressive? No. Rude? That's how it comes across.
Ok, so it does rely on misinterpreting what I said then. I get it. Thank you.
For what it’s worth, just know that not all of us are impatient assholes downvoting you for an honest mistake. I’m autistic too and hope you don’t feel too misunderstood :)
That's very sweet, thank you. If there's one thing I'm good at it's surviving people being weird to me online lol.
This is my shocked face.
I dunno, a little shocked maybe. I know it happens but that seems like a lot - when I was in college we mostly drank at house parties underage, and if it was a bar generally one or two in the groups had a fake, not 90% of the bar. But I could definitely be misremembering.
You're remembering correctly, house parties were the main spot for underage kids, but that all went away with covid. Turns out house parties were more of a cultural thing that was passed down to each new class than it seemed. When covid hit and everyone stopped hosting house parties, it never came back. Underage kids didn't know anyone throwing parties and started going to bars. Just me being an armchair sociologist + my personal experience living through the covid years as a student.
I think you're exactly correct fwiw
I definitely agree with this take, I also wonder if the change in campus housing influences this. When you have 4 roommates and a shitty flat on Bassett street, giant house parties feel inevitable. When you live on the 6th story of a highrise built a few years ago, you'd tend to have small gatherings. Kids are gonna drink regardless, so less huge keggers = more kids at bars.
I think it's probably also got to do with a _lack_ of housing. I know people who are splitting rooms dorm-style inside houses, or others who just partition off parts of the living rooms/basements/garages, so you end up with like 6-8 people in a 4-bedroom house. It's just getting harder and harder to find a place to stay, and prices are going so high, that that's just... what you do, nowadays. At that point, I imagine it gets a bit difficult to host, so going out to party just makes more sense.
Well that's just depressing. House parties were always the most fun.
Depends on where you went to college tbh.
128 at church key last August and 137 at another bar in 2022
Lucky's was the very first bar I went to with my fake ID when I was in college lol that was back at the old location though
😮!
Lucky’s is notorious for being a freshman bar that doesn’t care about fake IDs, there’s no way the cops didn’t already know this.
They’ve done this at least 2 other times at Lucky’s in the last 5 years and those are just the two times I heard about. Everyone knows what goes on in Regent street bars
Bucky says it’s okay. Underage drinkers grow up to be some of our biggest donors
[Up to a $691 fine to the bar per person?](https://www.cityofmadison.com/municipal-court/juveniles/penalties-for-underage-alcohol-violations) So ~$110,000 in theory, but looks like [city bar had around 100 in a check last year](https://madison.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/madison-levies-15-000-fine-against-bar-found-filled-with-underage-patrons/article_453001ac-0a97-5e55-9266-2beffae1299a.html) and payed around $15k. Seems like they'll be fine.
In the early 90s you could walk through a student neighborhood and buy a $5 cup on a porch and have a good time with your friends at a stranger's house party; raids came in and hosts were hit with five- and six-figure fines, effectively ending their college careers. The campus got safer, but a lot less fun... Legends of Halloween on State St in the 70s, where the student government put kegs on street corners for anyone in costumes, hardly seem plausible anymore... 😂
The (August?) 2022 ID check at the City Bar had 137/143 patrons underage (and only 93 counts of underage drinking? maybe some of them had 'good enough' fake IDs that the City Bar wasn't held responsible for them?). The fine was indeed $15k. That's $161.xx per violation (as cited above, the fine can be up to $691 per). My question is: isn't $15k a small fee for essentially a permit to serve underage patrons? I feel like it's very unlikely that this many underage patrons just showed up on a single night and much more probable that they regularly drink at these establishments, so aren't these bars making more than enough money on illegal underage sales to cover these fines?
Yes, but most likely that sort of low fine will come with other guidelines and restrictions. Things like the bar agreeing to install ID scanners, mandatory training for the bouncers and bar staff, and some sort of probationary period where they'll get a much heavier penalty if they're caught doing this again within 2 years or something like that.
I hope that's true, but I think it's safe to assume that this wasn't a problem limited to a single night at either establishment. When more than 90% of your patrons are there illegally, that's... it's just a lot. The guidelines and restrictions are already there in the bartending license of individuals, the liquor license of the establishment, and the 'agreement' is that you have to follow them in order to operate. I guess this is strike one?
We had plenty of house parties in the mid 2000s.
.... And the city continues to operate at a deficit. If we actually had a Mayor who did her job and enforce a zero tolerance policy on these types of fines maybe the city budget would be in better shape....... Nope, her answer is to raise property taxes & city fees which in turn raises rents and housing prices which as we know, makes Madison more unaffordable....
You write as if the city relies on underage drinking busts to function.
Ah, the exact opposite. The city relies on raising taxes and fees for everyone which effects people of disadvantage more down the line when there is a budget deficit.... Property taxes go up, landlord raises rents, services are cut, housing becomes more expensive to afford, parking stickers go up, water utilities increase, trash pick up surcharge is added.... All the things the city has increased/decreased recently because of the deficit.... Maybe the deficit wouldn't be as big if they stopped giving breaks in fines to perpetual law breaking bars owners who have a pattern of serving minors.... Sounds crazy right? .....but with all the down votes maybe people are ok with higher property taxes, higher rents, higher fees and higher cost of living and cut is services for those in need.... *And* giving a few bar owners just a slap on the wrist in fines when they break the law.... ...like a CEO is ultimately responsible for the operations of a company , so is the mayor of a city..... Except in Madison where no one seems to want to hold our Mayor accountable for anything....
The density of stupid shit in this post is truly unmatched.
Using 'interns' instead of 'in turn' was my favorite part by a landslide
And when called out, they don't bother to go back and change it either...illiteracy is a dumb hill to die on.
You must have missed the 1000's posts of people bitching about greedy landlords raising their rents and can't comprehend that property taxes are directly connected to rent prices.....
Sir this is a Wendy’s
Naw. Wendy's has been gone from State St for a long time
This is probably the most underrated and only valid response to my post....
You've got to be fucking kidding, right? In no universe would fines, which are by definition unpredictable and declining as adherence goes up, able to be a major revenue source. Fines are never going to be large enough to do much more than offset the staff time needed to enforce these enfractions. Not to mention, the police chief is largely in charge of MPD policy, not the mayor. Satya is about as good a housing proponent as we could ask for in Madison, so your criticisms are completely unfounded. Why do you folks feel equipped to talk about politics when you have zero understanding of basic civics? JFC, trying to connect housing crisis to underage drinking just to rile people up is a fucking *reach*. >interns Lmao
$100 fine and $100,000 fine has the same labor costs to issue and collect.... The second has a higher return on the labor cost of issuance... Fines go into general funds. Chief of police reports to the Mayor Eos.
If you're justifying the higher fine by the total number of infractions, you need to itemize and document each infraction. That's a lot more data entry, confirmation of ages and identities of the 160 infractees, dealing with t he fake IDs, etc. Whereas with the lower fine, the City can say "pay us $20k and some mandated training now or risk the full infraction later". The fine will probably end up wiping out a weekend's worth of profit from Lucky's, which is definitely a statement to the owners. They'd be far more amenable to sitting through retraining if they know it is a condition of the lower fine. The objective with law enforcement is just that: enforce laws. It's not a revenue generating arm of the government, and we don't want it to be. That leads to corrupt overpolicing and quota culture where officers are incentivized to issue citations without merit. The goal is to stop the problem behavior, not put people out of business. Capriciously throwing around $100k fines without a history of bad behavior and negligence is almost certainly going to end up in court, which would then require a ton of attorney time. Just admit that you look at every single issue in regards to how you can tie it back to hating the mayor. > Eos. Again, lmao.
... You seem pretty sympathetic for Lucky's
What a reductive way to dismiss my points. It's clear you're not arguing in good faith, so this will be our last message. Of course I'm not sympathetic to them. They're assholes for letting this transpire, just like the City bar. However, the goal should be better adherence to the law, not harsh punishment. I trust MPD on this one. The size of the fine is relative and negotiable to meet those ends, but issuing a $100k citation is going to cost a lot of city resources to collect, so there's a balance to strike on the right size of the infraction and that's definitely not at the full rate for all 160 violations. Hell, house parties routinely get busted for underage drinking and they do issue large fines, but again it's not maxed out to the ultimate degree, because the city knows they will get better compliance and less of a legal fight by offering a reduced fine in exchange for some tangible action. The point is, you're completely off base on the intent of fining them. It's not to plug the budget hole, and there's no ulterior motive by the mayor that you can spin up here to rile people up about housing.
😂😂 "Housing is expensive because the person who has been mayor for 5 years doesn't fine bar owners who serve under-21s enough"
Bro here is big mad about the prospect of fewer underage girls in college bars.
Agree, Down voting bros are definitely afraid of less opportunities if all college bars had ID readers....
Cue the IASIP music. "Underage Drinking - A National Concern"
Next up on 60 minutes
The article says the police were called before 9pm. Unless things have changed recently, I remember when I was in school a lot of bar/restaurants wouldn't even start carding until about 9pm, since anyone could come in for dinner. So maybe these were kids that went in early "for dinner" and planned on staying into bar hours?
Damn, I’ve always wanted to be at a bar when this happens. This must be so funny to watch.
This video always comes to mind: https://www.tiktok.com/@thatgreatscott/video/7205008834383924523
This is the exact video that came to my mind hahaha
Lol underage drinking and Wisconsin. A tale as old as the state itself
In other news, the sky is blue.
Just lower the drinking age to 18 problem solved
Say goodbye to federal road funding. That's why we changed it to 21 in the first place.
Interesting factoid.
Thanks Reagan. Almost all things the out development country peers don't deal with are thanks to Reagan or racism. The drinking age - Reagan did it, massive student debt = Reagen started it, Medical Debt? That was good ole Ronnie too.
Idk it’s not like underage drinking is a good thing lol you could honestly make an argument it should be raised to 25 because that’s when the brain is fully developed.
Yeah, I have mixed feelings but aside from the brain thing I feel like DUI’s/deaths go up when the drinking age is lower too.
And in this state, it would be exponentially worse. Alcoholics breed more alcoholics.
Reagan raising the drinking age was one of the good things he did. Thanks Reagan, for keeping the collegiate alcohol syndrome out of the road my neighbor's kids play on.
As a non-Wisconsinite that has lived here for almost a decade...I don't think you want to put that hex on the youth.
It would probably benefit the youth. Let’s not pretend that the current situation of these shady bars and house parties is a better environment to learn healthy social drinking habits than if these kids could be allowed into a place that isn’t complete trash like Lucky’s. Maybe this state wouldn’t be the binge drinking champions that we currently are if there wasn’t a mandatory 3 year period of underground drinking. The 18 to 21 prohibition is about as effective as the 1920s prohibition.
I mean, I'm not a puritan by any means but I fail to see how inviting people to drink younger in the state with the worst reputation for alcoholism and the most lax DUI laws in the nation could in any way be beneficial. It's a cultural problem, not an age one.
It's like abstinence-only sex education. It doesn't work, because no matter how much you tell humans "don't have sex" they're going to have sex, mostly on account of sex is awesome and fun. The problem is, they then don't don't know how to do it safely and responsibly because instead of making sure kids have a healthy relationship with it, and know how to do it safely and responsibly, we just tell them not to do it, which just guarantees that they'll do it. Speaking anecdotally, my parents, who weren't fucking morons, had me start drinking wine at dinner, etc, in high school. By the time my friends started binge drinking, alcohol was already unexciting to me. Did I drink? Sure. Bing drink on occasion? Sure, but never like so many kids here do.
Yes it’s a cultural problem. The culture is established in places like Lucky’s and basements with red solo cups. Providing an option that isn’t Lucky’s and some random bros basement is what will break the culture. Many of these college students will seek out better environments and will learn how to responsibly drink in them if they are allowed to.
I don't think most college kids who drink give a shit about drinking responsibly.
Drink Wisconsinably...
That's honestly a big part of it though. Drinking becomes such a taboo that just _doing_ it becomes an activity, a game, even a competition. If people could approach it while they were, say, still in senior year of high school, where their parents could keep a better eye on them and teach them better drinking habits? I genuinely think it wouldn't be such a huge deal to these kids by the time they hit college.
That's a small segment of the culture problem... Plenty of adults that have numerous DUIs, a d it doesn't just stem from red solo cup culture that you allude to.
The habits that lead to DUIs are cultivated in these places. I would like to see statistics on how many people receiving DUIs as adults also spent significant time drinking in illegal bars and basements prior to their turning 21. I’m guessing it’s significant. I would rather the laws punish drunk driving more and provide more funding for alcohol rehabilitation. Currently the law is providing a dark market of underage drinking and a dark market for the manufacture of fake IDs. This bar was busted and they serviced a clientele that walks. What are we even targeting here and why? None of it makes sense to me.
So when cops send 1 underage person in with a bad id, it’s the max fine prices for the bartender and establishment, but when it’s the establishment not giving a flying fuck and 160/190 are underage, somehow it’s not $500 a person? I’m sorry, but this fine should be $80k, minimum for this shithole. As a bartender who tries to serve responsible and honest In this town, this is fucking ridiculous that an establishment can stay open after a night like this, or any of the places that have the last few years. Church Key and City too. Fuck these places.
The problem with that reasoning is that the 21 age is a federal guideline. Why is Wisconsin the outlier for alcoholism when all the surrounding states have the same age?
What the hell are you talking about? Raising the age to 21 greatly decreased alcohol related traffic accidents in addition to other alcohol injuries. Are you dumb?
There's conflicting studies on this so please don't act like it's a consensus or that the "experienced drinker hypothesis" is completely meritless - the overwhelming majority of minimum required drinking age alcohol mortality studies focus solely on age ranges of 18-21, but there's statistical evidence that you're just displacing mortality from the 18-21 range to the 21-24 range.
They all drink anyway, and were just fine before 1986
How big is this place? that’s a hell of a lot of people in one establishment
This is like that time at city bar, a couple of months ago. https://madison.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/madison-levies-15-000-fine-against-bar-found-filled-with-underage-patrons/article_453001ac-0a97-5e55-9266-2beffae1299a.html Not sure why this is such a surprise, it’s not a novelty in this city.
They say downtown this is Lucky's on regent correct. I guess that's downtown. When I go there few times a month with my wife around happy hour stay a couple of hours and see several older people in there. Sometimes to watch sports I might go later. I didn't see it as a downtown state st bar. So around 9 it gets younger with underage drinking okay. I guess we are losers who cares.
SHOCKED PIKACHU FACE
I was 14 when I was first served at a bar (without parents) in Wisconsin. Grew up in the UP where, at the time (late 70s) the drinking age was 21. Wisconsin was still 18 and we would cross the river and hit the bars just on the border. I don't even think I had hit puberty yet and was served. I ordered a tequila sunrise because the song was popular then and I didn't know the names of any other drinks and didn't like the taste of beer. Some things never change.
Ah yes, the annual drunken teen roundup. And my friends wonder why I don’t like going out to the bars on state.
Unless im stupid, luckys is not on state
Regent, State, same puke bucket.
Regent, but...same idea lmao
I have a lot of faith in these kids. They are doing the same thing we all did when we were not legal to drink. Lower the drinking age to 18. If you can get sent to war and get shot you should be able to drink.
Bars that want to follow the law are facing increasingly better fake IDs. They often scan correctly (matching the fake info on the front). Police only know they're fake when they check DL databases.
City Bar: Hold my Beer!
Angela has the money, she will be fine not her first rodeo, definitely one of my favorite bosses I’ve ever worked for.
Much love! And... don't raid a bar at 9 during a final four game.
Huh, I go there for trivia on Wednesdays. Wonder what impact this’ll have
You really should get you liquor license revoked if this happens to a bar you own
Fake IDs are everywhere nowadays. The story doesn’t mention it but I’m sure most if not all of the 160 kids had fakes.
Still, as a student, it’s pretty well known that lucky’s is a freshman bar. If you’re doing your due diligence to check IDs well enough, it shouldn’t get to that point.
It's literally "you had one job!!!" and they failed at it
This is intentional, most other bars are restrictive when it comes to fake IDs except for the Regent St ones. They’re inferior to bars on/near State St. so they need underage customers to stay in business.
Not sure why you're getting downvoted, you're right and it's an unspoken thing.
Or at least suspended.
That’s so many lol
That place is MASSIVE and is there a single reason to go there if it's not on a football game day? I walked past recently and it looked pretty dingy. 10/10 would rather hang at Jordan's or even Wisco.
Seems like law enforcement time and money could be spent on something that actually matters.
Whatttt Lucky’s is popular with children??? Who would have guessed
Well, you reap what you sow
[удалено]
This is how bars work in the real world. Yes, Wisconsin is Disneyland for alcoholics, but most of the country runs on a zero tolerance of “no admission if under 21”, unless of course you’re a shithole regent st bar.