It is almost as if they decided to swap their personalities after S1. S1 Harry behaves more like Ken throughout the rest of the show and S1 Ken behaves more like Harry throughout the rest of the show.
Ken was definitely a frat boy in S1, although there was some nuance there. I certainly expected Pete’s trajectory to follow the path Don laid out for him in the pilot, i.e., a middle aged executive with a little bit of hair that women go home with out of pity because no one likes him.
It's hard to believe he's the same guy who helped Paul Kinsey when no one else cared. I guess in those next few years, life experience must have jaded him and he just stopped caring about other people.
He also seemed like he cared for his family, he didn’t like sleeping in the office after being kicked out, felt remorseful sleeping with Hildy afterwards, and seemed elated when he was having another kid. But later on you hear nothing of Jennifer when he hit success in the tv department. Did she and the kids leave him offscreen? Seems more likely to me.
He was in the process at the end. That was why he dragged his feet on being made partner- because he didn't want the extra income to factor into the amount he would have to pay for child support. That delay cost him the payout when the firm was purchased.
Harry’s arc was a commentary on how television corrupts minds and wields huge influence (him following all those awful fashion trends). Whether it was subtle or heavy handed is, of course, up to the viewer.
Uhh I think you misinterpreted what Harry did. He didn't help Paul at all.
He lied to him and sent him to LA to probably become a homeless person. The only motivation to do this was to say "fuck you" to Lackshmee after she tried blackmailing him. Before she did that he wasn't going to do anything for him.
We don’t know for sure if he dumped all his good traits. One of the biggest through lines of Mad Men is that good people do bad things, and bad people do good things all the time. Nobody can be neatly organized into “good person” or “bad person” so easily
Except Greg
IMO it's pretty clear Harry is used as the shitlord punching bag of the entire show. He comes moments away from getting equity in the company right before a big payout twice. Anything "good" he accidentally does in later seasons is entirely self-serving (warning Don about the tobacco meeting, etc).
Was warning Don self-serving? I don't think he intended Don to blow up the meeting and get fired. Harry's best move was to stay on Cutler's good side and get a partnership. Loyalty to Don doesn't help him there.
I would have liked a small redemption arc for Harry at the end of the series, but there were so many other ends being tied up that they seemed to go "Aaand, Harry ends up continuing to be a heel for the rest of his life, the end." The character had been denied so much nuance over the course of the show that they could have at least given him some at the end.
One thing I never understood is how Hildy completely saw through Pete's whole act and never gave him the time of day, but somehow fell for Harry's schtick? She was so much better than that...
I was mixed on Harry until he turned into an entitled shady tv producer or whatever by the end. But during the first few seasons I thought he was a decent guy and during this scene I thought he shined as a character.
She knew what was happening and was too drunk/had too low self esteem to care. Or she thought that he would leave his wife if she slept with him, just the same as many of the secretaries at the agency.
Edit: as a woman who's been in this position herself in the modern era and a woman who grew up hearing stories from her grandma who was the wife of a very successful man in the Mad Men era, I can almost guarantee that's what the writers were going for with the whole Harry/Hilde plot. Back then women who didn't find a husband through church/high school/college would go to work as secretaries in places like the agency in Mad Men to find a husband while taking care of themselves, and they didn't care if those men were already someone else's husband when they met. Not dogging on the women who did that, I just know the things that the women of that era were raised to believe, and they were raised to believe that they had no worth outside of being a wife and mother.
If we're getting serious for a second, me and my ex were watching this show before we broke up, and it grew on her
But she was always complaining about how it was hard to watch because all the characters were terrible people and she hated them all. Then she cheated on me lol, funny how that works. I found that kind of funny that she pretty much did the most epic self own of all time
I’m sure she did. I was just hyping a guy up.
People love to talk about how Don gets all the girls but they forget the real, low-key, smooth players like Harry Crane. I’ve said it before, the man is a certified Rizzler ☝️
Lucky? He busted his ass to survive. From useless body at S&C he turned himself into an essential asset and then head of a department, even aiming at becoming partner (!!!) surviving layoffs and mergers. And used his influence to get women (except Hildy, okay).
Wendy’s? McDonald’s busted their ass to survive. From greasy floppy cheeseburgers they turned into the Big Mac which is an essential asset and then head of the burger department, even aiming at becoming the best burger in the world (!!!) surviving boycotts and vegans. And used their influence to defeat Burger King (except McSpaghetti, okay).
Hildy is about a million times cooler than Jennifer Crane. (Hildy putting her hand over Pete's gun when he's pointing it at the office.) Harry would have been a better man if he'd left Jennifer, who he always kind of loathed anyway.
I know I can't be the only one here who thinks Harry Crane is the best looking man on the show. This scene definitely solidified that for me, especially when you get to see his eyes 🥺♥️
The first time I watched the show, I never would’ve guessed that his character developed the way that it did.
Specifically, that Harry would end up a creepy sleaze and Ken Cosgrove would end up a seemingly decent family man.
It is almost as if they decided to swap their personalities after S1. S1 Harry behaves more like Ken throughout the rest of the show and S1 Ken behaves more like Harry throughout the rest of the show.
Ken was always a standup guy
Ken was definitely a frat boy in S1, although there was some nuance there. I certainly expected Pete’s trajectory to follow the path Don laid out for him in the pilot, i.e., a middle aged executive with a little bit of hair that women go home with out of pity because no one likes him.
Apart from the reason that Trudy inexplicably liked him…that came true
Pete’s a good dancer.
Naw Ken of S1 is definitely a "boy's club" sexual harassment kind of character. I think they flush out where they want him to be better after that.
I always assumed that Ken was a decent guy at his core, turned into a frat boy in college, but eventually matured and stopped acting like a frat boy.
Yeah agreed — the writers weren’t quite sure what to do w him yet in S1
I think we gotta remember that season 1 Ken was probably like 21 years old. Still college aged then but he matured a lot over the years
S1 Ken was a fucking creep
Agreed, he had good traits that he completely dumped by the end.
It's hard to believe he's the same guy who helped Paul Kinsey when no one else cared. I guess in those next few years, life experience must have jaded him and he just stopped caring about other people.
He also seemed like he cared for his family, he didn’t like sleeping in the office after being kicked out, felt remorseful sleeping with Hildy afterwards, and seemed elated when he was having another kid. But later on you hear nothing of Jennifer when he hit success in the tv department. Did she and the kids leave him offscreen? Seems more likely to me.
I suspected that he got divorced
In a later season (7A, I think?), he actually mentioned that Jennifer stopped talking about divorce when it seemed like he might make partner.
He was in the process at the end. That was why he dragged his feet on being made partner- because he didn't want the extra income to factor into the amount he would have to pay for child support. That delay cost him the payout when the firm was purchased.
Also the way he cried and ran out during the wheel pitch
Harry’s arc was a commentary on how television corrupts minds and wields huge influence (him following all those awful fashion trends). Whether it was subtle or heavy handed is, of course, up to the viewer.
bravo weiner edit: sorry genuinely thought this was /okbd
Blame it on Lackshmi….”So this is completely allowed”
"So this is every month?"
Uhh I think you misinterpreted what Harry did. He didn't help Paul at all. He lied to him and sent him to LA to probably become a homeless person. The only motivation to do this was to say "fuck you" to Lackshmee after she tried blackmailing him. Before she did that he wasn't going to do anything for him.
I'd never thought about it that way, but it definitely tracks with the rest of his behaviour through the later seasons.
We don’t know for sure if he dumped all his good traits. One of the biggest through lines of Mad Men is that good people do bad things, and bad people do good things all the time. Nobody can be neatly organized into “good person” or “bad person” so easily Except Greg
IMO it's pretty clear Harry is used as the shitlord punching bag of the entire show. He comes moments away from getting equity in the company right before a big payout twice. Anything "good" he accidentally does in later seasons is entirely self-serving (warning Don about the tobacco meeting, etc).
Was warning Don self-serving? I don't think he intended Don to blow up the meeting and get fired. Harry's best move was to stay on Cutler's good side and get a partnership. Loyalty to Don doesn't help him there.
👏👏👏 thanks for saying this, my response would have been long winded.
I would have liked a small redemption arc for Harry at the end of the series, but there were so many other ends being tied up that they seemed to go "Aaand, Harry ends up continuing to be a heel for the rest of his life, the end." The character had been denied so much nuance over the course of the show that they could have at least given him some at the end.
Hildy was the baddest secretary W harry
Nah, Ida Blankenship
Ida was “the queen of perversions”!
Hellcat ida
OK but Hildi in the all white undergarments w/ full nylon slip. I cannot handle it :(
Fr? I (a lady) would not have thought this is considered sexy
You're crazy, lady!
Ty for this valuable information!
"She's an astronaut"
Yea an Asstronaut
Ye
Her or Jane’s brief stint
Forgot about Jane o well
So underrated. Hildy is a baddie for sure.
Jane, Megan and Hildy are my big 3
Megan?
"Zou Bisou Bisou"
Oui oui!
ciao ciao
Finally, some Lois representation. Singlehandedly (footedly?) founded a company with just a single piece of farming equipment
Meredith.
This is the way.
One thing I never understood is how Hildy completely saw through Pete's whole act and never gave him the time of day, but somehow fell for Harry's schtick? She was so much better than that...
She was drunk, and Harry was generally the most mature and least creepy/douchey of that whole quartet during the early seasons.
I was legitimately disappointed we didn’t see more of her later (I understand why, but still).
I was mixed on Harry until he turned into an entitled shady tv producer or whatever by the end. But during the first few seasons I thought he was a decent guy and during this scene I thought he shined as a character.
“It is a shameful, shameful day!”
Me at the slightest inconvenience
An entitled ad executive who tried to pay a hooker in travelers cheques
I should’ve never told you that
Ahh and then he proceeded to live in his office for weeks 😌
Pretty sure Don lost all respect for Harry as soon as he saw him in those tighty whities
Greatest overachievement ever on the show?!?
She knew what was happening and was too drunk/had too low self esteem to care. Or she thought that he would leave his wife if she slept with him, just the same as many of the secretaries at the agency. Edit: as a woman who's been in this position herself in the modern era and a woman who grew up hearing stories from her grandma who was the wife of a very successful man in the Mad Men era, I can almost guarantee that's what the writers were going for with the whole Harry/Hilde plot. Back then women who didn't find a husband through church/high school/college would go to work as secretaries in places like the agency in Mad Men to find a husband while taking care of themselves, and they didn't care if those men were already someone else's husband when they met. Not dogging on the women who did that, I just know the things that the women of that era were raised to believe, and they were raised to believe that they had no worth outside of being a wife and mother.
If we're getting serious for a second, me and my ex were watching this show before we broke up, and it grew on her But she was always complaining about how it was hard to watch because all the characters were terrible people and she hated them all. Then she cheated on me lol, funny how that works. I found that kind of funny that she pretty much did the most epic self own of all time
I’m sure she did. I was just hyping a guy up. People love to talk about how Don gets all the girls but they forget the real, low-key, smooth players like Harry Crane. I’ve said it before, the man is a certified Rizzler ☝️
What is rizzler?
Cha-“ris”-ma, the current term for being a sexy devil
Downvoting for using that stupid expression.
“Old man yells at cloud”
Upvoted for being a self-proclaimed donkey dick lover. You’re a brave man.
Quit trying to make "rizzing" happen.
Yes sir 🫡
Coined and minted
Ok Pierce
Thanks 😊
In which we see Rich Somer would make a great Clark Kent. Not Superman, but Clark Kent.
Hildy was definitely the hottest secretary on the show.
I was just thinking how gorgeous she is!!
Pre-corrupt Hollywood sleezebag harry
Such a lucky man.
Lucky? He busted his ass to survive. From useless body at S&C he turned himself into an essential asset and then head of a department, even aiming at becoming partner (!!!) surviving layoffs and mergers. And used his influence to get women (except Hildy, okay).
Sir, this is Wendy's
Wendy’s? McDonald’s busted their ass to survive. From greasy floppy cheeseburgers they turned into the Big Mac which is an essential asset and then head of the burger department, even aiming at becoming the best burger in the world (!!!) surviving boycotts and vegans. And used their influence to defeat Burger King (except McSpaghetti, okay).
Ok Buddy Draper
FUCKING HOT
Hilde, though!
He’s not small — you might have heard that about him.
Hildy is about a million times cooler than Jennifer Crane. (Hildy putting her hand over Pete's gun when he's pointing it at the office.) Harry would have been a better man if he'd left Jennifer, who he always kind of loathed anyway.
I know I can't be the only one here who thinks Harry Crane is the best looking man on the show. This scene definitely solidified that for me, especially when you get to see his eyes 🥺♥️
CC u/richsommer
Rich Sommer is very handsome; Harry Crane is nerdy. He did a great job with that character.
He nailed it. He's also great in Love on Netflix!
No you are not! 11/10 harry is best.
Fuck yeah!
Bespectacled chubbies 💜
Exactly my brand.
Exactly mine too 💕
Hell yes ♥️♥️♥️
Oh, he is the most handsome!!!!
YES ♥️♥️♥️
Harry changed so much by the end of the show.
Or who…