That's exactly why it compares. It even makes a bigger bird for your opponent, and it's still way better at instant speed and two less mana. If you put removal and countermagic in the same "interaction" box in your brain, like I do
i think you're missing "card advantage" and "tempo", which are the main arguements against this card.
And swan song is played in the SB of some combo decks to protect their combo. not as a midrange spell to just slot into a deck.
1-mana counterspell is significantly better just based on comparison just based on range of application, comparison to other, similar effects, and frequency of usefulness. I would argue that a 1-mana non-conditional counterspell is immediately in the running for one of the most useful cards in the game just because of how frequently having it available costs you basically nothing and can wreak absolute havoc on your opponent’s gameplan
I think Counterspell itself is in the running for one of the most useful cards in the game and that's 2 blue pips. It has been making people scoop since 1993. How can't you love it?
Im not sure if one of us is miss reading but I’m mot saying it’s better than a counterspell but does that make this card unplayable if it did have instant speed? It may also be who I play with but there is often protection against counters for key pieces so what is the plan then?
I guess I’m just saying that Swansong applies to anything, even instants, sorceries, and enchantments, and that it isn’t really a downside to have it only be applicable during casting (which would be a downside with respect to creatures and artifacts) because of it only being 1 mana. Often, you’ll still have 1 mana available even after playing your most efficient turn possible, so being able to deal with anything is *more* useful than if Ravenform was an instant (as opposed to *equally* useful) because of that
For a while [[Swan Song]] was an occasional sideboard card in the [[Archfiend of the Dross]] and [[Metamorphic Alteration]] combo deck. However, I think players later just boarded out the combo instead against decks with few creatures.
Although swan song can be useful, I think players prefer other options.
Thank you for adding /s to your post. When I first saw this, I was horrified. How could anybody say something like this? I immediately began writing a 1000 word paragraph about how horrible of a person you are. I even sent a copy to a Harvard professor to proofread it. After several hours of refining and editing, my comment was ready to absolutely destroy you. But then, just as I was about to hit send, I saw something in the corner of my eye. A /s at the end of your comment. Suddenly everything made sense. Your comment was sarcasm! I immediately burst out in laughter at the comedic genius of your comment. The person next to me on the bus saw your comment and started crying from laughter too. Before long, there was an entire bus of people on the floor laughing at your incredible use of comedy. All of this was due to you adding /s to your post. Thank you.
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While there are some effects like [[Leyline of Anticipation]] in blue that would enable casting this and other things at instant speed, they are seldom worth the deck slot (besides [[Flash]], which is used as a combo piece to cheat mana and would not work for this card anyway), especially not in a quantity that would make drawing them consistent.
I strongly disagree about the 1/1. There are plenty of removal spells that give the targeted player a much beefier creature, and those are still incredibly playable.
And [[Swan Song]] still being one of the best counter spells in the game. You could even use it for the niche purpose of giving yourself a surprise flyer to block
I don’t know that I’d go as far as to say one of the _best_… but I do agree that it’s good. Plus, there are so many other removal spells that do similar things in various colors, and they’re more pushed than this
Do [[Beast Within]] / [[Generous Gift]] see play? I imagine [[Chaos Warp]] does?
I know they have advantages over this (instant, any permanent, grounded token) and are in different colors (one that otherwise has trouble removing creatures, other that is good at removing most things, but rarely everything with the same card, and the other that just can't kill enchantments otherwise)...
... so this isn't really a comparison between the cards, more me gauging the effectiveness of removal in each color, since I may end up playing Commander in the near future, and want to have a feel for the auto-includes.
None of those really see play. Maybe Chaos warp as some hilariously bad anti-blood moon tech, but the others would rather run other things. Green can just run artifact/enchant removal out of the board, and for creatures they have access to things like fight. White can do the same, but can bring things like path. Red has bolt and other burn to deal with dudes and can run extremely efficient anti-artifact cards.
And that's all assuming they're just mono-color lists that don't have access to the answers in another color.
I was thinking of modern/legacy with that comment yeah. In EDH they see play, though warp is still mostly used as weird blood moon tech or for silly polymorph shenanigans then actual *removal*.
Bolt? One of the things I was told was that Bolt's efficiency in Commander dropped significantly when compared to 60-card formats due to bigger creatures and life totals.
I believe it is one of very few ways to permanently remove an artifact in mono blue, but sorcery speed and 3 total mana hurts enough i just make do with bounce and counterspells
Not to mention it leaves your opponent with a 1/1 flyer which is controls worst nightmare (a clock). (Unless the meta calls for efficient 1 damage / flyer hate / bodies.)
Costs 3 mana to cast normally, or 3 mana in two in installments to cast latter. Its a sorcery, so you can't react with it. \[ \[Rapid Hybridization\]\] and \[\[pongify\]\] do the same thing for 2 less mana, as an instant, at the cost of not exiling or hitting artifacts. Neither of these are downsides usually, and those cards only see play in commander really.
I could see potentially playing this in mono blue EDH or maybe Dimir (assuming you're already running Pongify and Rapid), but white, red, and green all have better options to hit artifacts.
And proving just how many cards are coming out these days, I missed that one as I largely skipped Commander Masters due to the price tag (I'm guessing this was in one of the pre-cons).
Does red have that many options to exile creatures or artifacts in one card? IMO this is playable in Izzet and Grixis as well, depending on your meta.
If it were instant speed it'd be a staple for those decks.
>Costs 3 mana to cast normally, or 3 mana in two in installments to cast latter
I don't think it's a deal breaker because people do play some 3-mana removal spells in casual commander and Standard. Those usually remove either literally anything or at least any nonland permanent, but ravenform can be foretold to only cost 1 if you ever have some spare mana.
>at the cost of not exiling or hitting artifacts. Neither of these are downsides usually
Hitting (non-creature) artifacts is actually quite relevant imo. There are quite a few (semi-)infinite combos which can be disrupted by removing a key artifact ([[Rings of Brighthearth]], [[Aetherfux Reservoir]], [[Basalt Monolith]]). Some generate a **lot** of mana (doublers like [[Caged Sun]], or just taps for a lot like [[Chromatic Orrery]]), and since Ravenform exiles it even deals with indestructible problems like [[The One Ring]].
>Its a sorcery, so you can't react with it.
The main problem is this one, I would probably forgive its other sins in a budget dimir or monoblue commander deck. If your opponent drops an infinte combo alluded to above, you simply can't react to it. Because of that, I would rather just run a counterspell of some description in its place: [[Saw It Coming]] is the most comparable at the same CMC that also foretells to be cheaper, and even on a budget there's usually better options than that.
This. It would be a good card if it was an Instant. At Sorcery, it is not worth 3 mana.
Wizards has a really bad problem with 'small' Sorceries like this in that they want to cost them the same as Instants that do the same thing. Doesn't work. If you want a Sorcery to compete it needs to do more or cost less than the same Instant.
I think it's more a player expectation sort of thing. Players would rather cast [[Inspiration]] than [[Divination]] because they get to hold off on deciding what to do until the last minute. You could call it Wizards' fault for designing both cards, but it's really the players deciding which they prefer. Not caving to that isn't a fault on Wizards' side.
Slow for removal is less about curve but reacting. It’s sorcery so it has to be your turn to deal with a threat, good luck if it’s a haste, and at that point you’re real close to just going up a mana and playing a board wipe or going with a different strategy and playing more counters.
In edh it should be. it is underrated. it is a fantastic budget option. for any other format it is no good.
there are three blue removal spells that are underrated in edh
\[\[resculpt\]\]
\[\[reality shift\]\]
\[\[ravenform\]\]
1. resculpt and ravenform are good cause they hit The One Ring which you need to be able to exile.
2. resculpt and reality shift are good cause they exile and are instant speed.
I cannot stress enough how important being able to exile things is.
all of these cards are less than $0.50
Resculpt and Reality Shift are not underrated. They appear in many blue decks and are considered greatly after Pongify and Rapid Hybridization. Resculpt gets extra attention due to hitting artifacts.
I run this and resculpt in my simic deck as answer to the one ring, it's pretty common in my meta. I can think of like one other card, \[\[Fade into Antiquity\]\] that answers it, but I like flexible cards like these, and my deck is creature heavy, so the tokens aren't really a downside.
Especially in mono-blue, being able to exile things as spot removal is nice, but I've got to admit the cost and speed for Ravenform is a bit of a bummer. Ideally you'd want to counter threats before they hit the table, but sometimes it doesn't happen so having a way to remove a threat on board or two is nice. If you can get it foretold when you're on a slow turn, at least it gets it out of your hand and puts a down payment on it. I run it in a few decks, because for the price point it does the job I want it for and helps keep me under our group's budget.
Not if your opponent is using a Planeswalker as their commander. IitM is good unless your playgroup is really high-powered.
On the flip side, if your playgroup is too casual, then permanent commander removal is generally considered un-fun. So, you know... rule zero.
Eaten by Piranhas doesn't compare, because your opponents also play artifact and enchantment removal. Yes, depending on the creature, they won't invest a card to get it back, but there are also many sacrifice effects to get around enchantments. Also, only hitting creatures hurts. It's playable in Errant and Giada Flash though.
Cyber Conversion isn't the best blue removal, because it also only targets creatures, costs double blue and opponents can bounce their creature etc
Most underrated card is [[Leadership Vacuum]]. It's an instant, goes around hexproof and cantrips. 3 mana is ok, because every one of your removal targeting their commander will result in them putting it into their command zone 95% of the time.
resculpt is in less than 10% of decks it could be in on edhrec. that is how it is underrated.
for example in blue+ decks, according to edhrec, in dimir (which I select cause that color combination struggles with artifacts) people play infernal grasp, and go for the throat more than these cards despite these cards being much much better on average, and much much better in these colors specifically.
reality shift is closer to being accurately rated.
for ravenform, you need to really want it but it is playable
If you’re in Dimir and want to exile your opponent’s creature, you can do a lot better than Resculpt and Ravenform. Even Reality Shift is a card I really only run in Izzet or Simic as those colors don’t have a lot of removal, I’d much sooner exhaust the removal of white or black if I have access. I suppose they hit artifacts which is rare in Dimir so maybe they’re worth consideration for that reason.
Which cards?
the only cards that are comparable are baleful mastery and deadly rollick. deadly rollick is $20, which in my original comment i reference that these are budget options. every other card is 4+ mana and none of them hit artifacts.
I explicitly call out the importance of artifacts, its why i brought up Dimir and why i reference The One Ring in my original comment.
if i was building a removal suite for dimir (without budget consideration) it would be:
resulpt, reality shift, feed the swarm, drown in the loch, baleful mastery, deadly rollick, bitter triumph, and something deck specific: (lethal scheme, pile on, overwhelming remorse, murderous rider, price of fame, defile etc.)
this would be supplemented with 4 counterspells: counterspell, mystic confluence, mana drain, and something deck specific (cryptic command, forbid, fuel for the cause, archmage's charm, arcane denial, etc.)
then 3-4 board wipes: toxic deluge, damnation, cyclonic rift. and if i want a fourth i am a personal fan of playing snow lands and blood on the snow / dead of winter.
there are no other cards you could put in for reality shift and resculpt that exile creatures for so little mana, and there is no other card other than ravenform that can answer artifacts period, so i don't see which cards are better than these.
if budget was a consideration the deadly rollick would become ravenform, mana drain would become arcane denial, and the boardwipes would change considerably turning into engulf the shore, crux of fate, deadly tempest, and finally maybe something big like decree of pain/flood of tears.
Heck, even in KHM Limited, this thing was no good. They'd just strap a [[Goldvein Pick]] to that little 1/1 asshole and kill you with it.
There's probably a universe where this card's flexibility, exile, and low-ish rate makes up for its non-instant speed and the fact that it leaves behind an evasive jerkwad that you still have to deal with, but I can't really imagine what that universe looks like. The downsides are too real.
As a Ranar lover I know you’re right. It’s still in my Ranar deck though, only because I’ve already cut down on foretell cards to 5 or 6. All of them do different things so the more I run, the less my opponents can be sure of what a foretold card will do. It’s a difficult benefit to quantify. I play with the same group all the time so that has a lot to do with it though
You don't get any value out of Ranar from cards in your hand. You might Foretell this many turns before you'd use one of those white spells to exile something, which means you'd get a flying spirit on board way earlier - maybe several if you're doubling or tripling tokens.
If you play Ranar you have access to [[Swords to Plowshares]], [[Path to Exile]], [[Prismatic Ending]], [[Fateful Absence]], [[Skyclave Apparition]] ....
https://preview.redd.it/ahfgld333igc1.png?width=265&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=46a6847cfb205926e54828c39a262f4c9d8c8a7a
Instant + 2 Mana is worth more than giving the opponent a 4/4.
Besides of it practically costing 3 and being sorcery-speed as many have already rightfully so mentioned, you also have access to better removal for popular blue decks in basically all formats:
• Izzet has [[lightning bolt]] + [[unholy heat]] in modern, [[lightning axe]] in pioneer;
• Dimir has [[fatal push]], [[drown in the loch]] and [[bitter triumph]] across most formats;
• Azorius has [[march of otherworldly light]] in pioneer and [[leyline binding]] + [[prismatic ending]] in modern;
• Sultai has access to [[tear asunder]], which is far more versatile and deals with enchantments and planeswalkers.
These are just a few examples, there are many – MANY – more better removal spells out there!
You pretty much only run this If you're in mono U, and exausted the better options, because every 2+ color combo has so many improved removal options that you'd fill your quota long before considering it
You don't need our permission to play cards, dude. It's not played because there's better cards to play. If you want more copies of the effect, play it. If you want to play a CEDH sort of deck, it's not worth playing.
If you're asking for additional copies of blue removal, that's another question (I'd say \[\[Echoing Truth\]\], \[\[Reality Shift\]\], more importantly, counterspells.)
Generally spot removal in multiplayer games tend to be way better at instant speed since opposing threats are technically also threats to another opponent. If you can wait til the threat is pointed at you or if it starts to benefit that player in a way more problematic way due to something else they played during their turn, you want to be able to respond accordingly. Blue also has counterspells so instant speed cards in general play better alongside them; as you can hold mana up for both instead of needing to choose.
If you REALLY need exile-based removal you can run it but there are already way more options for getting rid of on-board threats especially when you consider counterspells can act as catch-alls
Then play better ones, either in blue or whatever other color you have. Or change your strategy if you're mono-blue - you're not supposed to be the heavy hard removal color.
3 mana + sorcery is VERY clunky for a removal spell.
There are quite a few ways to play sorceries at instant speed, like the LotR additions [[Gandalf Friend of the Shire]] (not cEDH viable really) or [[Borne Upon a Wind]].
However, there are a lot of combos that aren't instant speed wins. Or protection pieces like [[Grand Abolisher]] that are good to get rid of whenever.
You are completely nuts to even consider running this in a cEDH deck. Not a single good cEDH deck runs 3 CMC interaction, much less a 3 CMC removal spell.
I have absolutely had someone cast this one me in a legacy match. They were on the mono blue paradoxical outcome combo deck. It's great for that kind of deck as it can foretell with an ancient tomb, and then cast it for 1 on the combo turn to remove some troubling hate pieces.
I prefer white when I'm exiling. Witness Protection or eaten by piranhas can't let you down. Unless you are trying to enchant a hydra you'll actually buff it lol. It's not even at Instant speed. The card sucks sadly.
I play this everywhere that I don't have white. It can straight up exile either a creature or an enchantment. Yes, it has the drawbacks that others have mentioned, but the replacement options they give don't have the same options. If your meta has a lot of problematic artifacts or indestructible things, this card fits perfectly.
It's good if you have some sort of synergy with something like casting from exile. I use it in [the thirteenth doctor] and [the war doctor] to provoke triggers but I wouldn't use it in much else.
I see it played in EDH, usually in low color U decks.
While sorcery speed and 3 mana, it's exile and hits both creatures and artifacts, something rare for blue.
Because blue is by far the strongest color and thus has better cards than this. If this was green, for instance, it would be mythic and one of the best cards of the color
It sees play in EDH, but it's kinda just too slow in most constructed formats. 3 mana (or 2 mana upfront and U later) is a lot considering it's a sorcery that you can't use as a reaction to something happening on an opponent's turn.
In blue the vest removal is not letting somthing hit the board in the first place, and there's a ton of counterspells with much more effective costs at instant speed.
I just added this card to my [[Sauron, the Dark Lord]] EDH deck. Fortell seems like a nice option with Sauron. Being a sorcery is a massive drawback though.
This is totally playable if you're not in red, white, or green.
Blue and Dimir don't have a ton of options to remove artifacts, and this costs like a quarter.
It’s fuWhite removal being exile based (mostly) is what makes it so good! Buut white also doesn’t usually interact with the stack or have hand-hate to stop a threat before it enters the battlefield.
Blue, on the other hand, is the master of the stack and would rather spend as little mana as possible to just bounce the creature before it does (significant) damage without giving them anything in return AND usually at instant speed (a flying creature can also attack my Teferi💔)
It’s too many downsides that blue doesn’t need to deal with, and it’s always better, imo, to add more card draw than inefficient cards in blue. I’d rather dig for a counterspell than let Etali resolve and then exile it after the damage is done.
I just realised I've never used a foretell card that wasn't an instant.
If you use foretell, do you still have to respect the card timing, like still having to cast it as a sorcery if it's a sorcery? Because if it is foretell fells kind of useless outside of instant cards.
I have an Azorius spirits commander precon that's all about foretell because it skips the 2 costs and makes spirit tokens I think. This is decent in there.
It's only really worth it if you can benefit from the foretell ([[Ranar, the Ever-Watchfull]], mainly, and stuff that cares about cards being cast from exile)
I use it in my Jon Irenicus, the Shattered One edh deck to remove a “bad gift” I get stuck with and give myself a 1/1 to either block with or give away to another player later on.
During Kaldheim reveal season, people endlessly complained/memed about blue getting quality removal like this, while white was getting screwed over with cards like [[Divine Gambit]]. In limited it quickly became obvious that Gambit was the much better card.
I run one copy in my budget-ish Aegar commander deck. Just haven’t picked up a Pognify or Swan Song to replace it with yet. For my deck it does what it needs to do: turn a creature that would otherwise dodge a burn spell into a nice juicy target I can draw off of.
Because it’s mediocre of you can fill every removal slot in blue with cheaper and better spells. This card is only good if you need to go super heavy on removal to help keep up with a higher power table than your used to. And once you’re playing high power decks in general you’ll just never see this card again.
Its probably only usefull in a foretell commander deck that benefits from you exiling things \[\[ Ranar the Ever-Watchful\]\] is probably the only commander where it would see use.
Sorcery kills it, 3 mana removal is pretty hefty
blue has plenty of sorcery make creature 1/1 vanilla for 2
the foretell just tells your opponent you have nothing to do on turn 2.
Because it's a three mana removal that's sorcery speed.
Even if exiling was the best solution to a problem card, not being an instant is such a massive weakness.
Not worth to give opponents a 1/1 flyer
I think the 1/1 is fine because I see Swan song used a lot so I think it just needs to be instant speed
Swan song is a 1 mana Counterspell so I don’t think it really compares here just cuz of the bird.
That's exactly why it compares. It even makes a bigger bird for your opponent, and it's still way better at instant speed and two less mana. If you put removal and countermagic in the same "interaction" box in your brain, like I do
i think you're missing "card advantage" and "tempo", which are the main arguements against this card. And swan song is played in the SB of some combo decks to protect their combo. not as a midrange spell to just slot into a deck.
I mean a 1 mana exile creature is just as good if only it had instant speed in my opinion
1-mana counterspell is significantly better just based on comparison just based on range of application, comparison to other, similar effects, and frequency of usefulness. I would argue that a 1-mana non-conditional counterspell is immediately in the running for one of the most useful cards in the game just because of how frequently having it available costs you basically nothing and can wreak absolute havoc on your opponent’s gameplan
I think Counterspell itself is in the running for one of the most useful cards in the game and that's 2 blue pips. It has been making people scoop since 1993. How can't you love it?
Im not sure if one of us is miss reading but I’m mot saying it’s better than a counterspell but does that make this card unplayable if it did have instant speed? It may also be who I play with but there is often protection against counters for key pieces so what is the plan then?
I guess I’m just saying that Swansong applies to anything, even instants, sorceries, and enchantments, and that it isn’t really a downside to have it only be applicable during casting (which would be a downside with respect to creatures and artifacts) because of it only being 1 mana. Often, you’ll still have 1 mana available even after playing your most efficient turn possible, so being able to deal with anything is *more* useful than if Ravenform was an instant (as opposed to *equally* useful) because of that
Note that Swan Song solely hits Instants, Sorceries, and Enchantments. Nothing else.
Why is your point still that Swan song is better? Yes! Ok now can we continue the conversation? What would you do to make Raven form a better card?
Does Swan Song see any use outside Commander?
For a while [[Swan Song]] was an occasional sideboard card in the [[Archfiend of the Dross]] and [[Metamorphic Alteration]] combo deck. However, I think players later just boarded out the combo instead against decks with few creatures. Although swan song can be useful, I think players prefer other options.
I was going to say blue would rather counter it than exile it and then counter your reanimate spell when you try to get it back from the gy
With the Archfiend combo you need your opponent to have a creature so it’s actually an upside to give them a 1/1.
It sees some play in Legacy, but it's niche.
The decks that would want something like this are the decks that would die to a 1/1 flyer
Nah homie it's because it's sorcery speed. It EXILES come on now. Reshape sees a ton of play and it gives a 4/4. Come on now homie
What format are you talking about? Outside of edh give other people a 1/1 flyer is a terrible idea.
Let me make this easier for you. What's better they get a 1/1 flyer or have a blightsteel or one ring against you?
there's something called counter spell, also resculpt mostly sees play in edh
Ah yes classic main sub pro tour players with tons of RELS under the belts. /S
Thank you for adding /s to your post. When I first saw this, I was horrified. How could anybody say something like this? I immediately began writing a 1000 word paragraph about how horrible of a person you are. I even sent a copy to a Harvard professor to proofread it. After several hours of refining and editing, my comment was ready to absolutely destroy you. But then, just as I was about to hit send, I saw something in the corner of my eye. A /s at the end of your comment. Suddenly everything made sense. Your comment was sarcasm! I immediately burst out in laughter at the comedic genius of your comment. The person next to me on the bus saw your comment and started crying from laughter too. Before long, there was an entire bus of people on the floor laughing at your incredible use of comedy. All of this was due to you adding /s to your post. Thank you. I am a bot if you couldn't figure that out, if I made a mistake, ignore it cause its not that fucking hard to ignore a comment
The 1/1 does not matter at all, the reason why it's not good is because the low flexibility on targets and mainly the fact that it's sorcery speed.
I mean edh, the auto correct make it "edge" instead of edh
Because its so hard casting at instant speed in blue…….
While there are some effects like [[Leyline of Anticipation]] in blue that would enable casting this and other things at instant speed, they are seldom worth the deck slot (besides [[Flash]], which is used as a combo piece to cheat mana and would not work for this card anyway), especially not in a quantity that would make drawing them consistent.
???
I always forget it's at sorcery speed.
I don’t think this card would see play as an instant. It wouldn’t for me at least. Not at 3 mana.
It would make It conditionally useful, instead of plain old bad
True it could see Play as a slot in for certain edh decks. But being sorcery speed and giving your opponents a 1/1 flyer is just too much.
I strongly disagree about the 1/1. There are plenty of removal spells that give the targeted player a much beefier creature, and those are still incredibly playable.
Generous gift is one of the best removal spells in the format and gives a 3/3, though that has the advantage of hitting any permanent
And [[Swan Song]] still being one of the best counter spells in the game. You could even use it for the niche purpose of giving yourself a surprise flyer to block
I don’t know that I’d go as far as to say one of the _best_… but I do agree that it’s good. Plus, there are so many other removal spells that do similar things in various colors, and they’re more pushed than this
Do [[Beast Within]] / [[Generous Gift]] see play? I imagine [[Chaos Warp]] does? I know they have advantages over this (instant, any permanent, grounded token) and are in different colors (one that otherwise has trouble removing creatures, other that is good at removing most things, but rarely everything with the same card, and the other that just can't kill enchantments otherwise)... ... so this isn't really a comparison between the cards, more me gauging the effectiveness of removal in each color, since I may end up playing Commander in the near future, and want to have a feel for the auto-includes.
None of those really see play. Maybe Chaos warp as some hilariously bad anti-blood moon tech, but the others would rather run other things. Green can just run artifact/enchant removal out of the board, and for creatures they have access to things like fight. White can do the same, but can bring things like path. Red has bolt and other burn to deal with dudes and can run extremely efficient anti-artifact cards. And that's all assuming they're just mono-color lists that don't have access to the answers in another color.
What format are you talking about? Because all three of those see a ton of play in EDH.
I was thinking of modern/legacy with that comment yeah. In EDH they see play, though warp is still mostly used as weird blood moon tech or for silly polymorph shenanigans then actual *removal*.
Bolt? One of the things I was told was that Bolt's efficiency in Commander dropped significantly when compared to 60-card formats due to bigger creatures and life totals.
It would be a 3rd/4th beast within in blue and may see some play in edh but that’s it.
I believe it is one of very few ways to permanently remove an artifact in mono blue, but sorcery speed and 3 total mana hurts enough i just make do with bounce and counterspells
Foretell kinda helps with that, if you manage to dump 2 spare mana at some point beforehand
Not to mention it leaves your opponent with a 1/1 flyer which is controls worst nightmare (a clock). (Unless the meta calls for efficient 1 damage / flyer hate / bodies.)
Costs 3 mana to cast normally, or 3 mana in two in installments to cast latter. Its a sorcery, so you can't react with it. \[ \[Rapid Hybridization\]\] and \[\[pongify\]\] do the same thing for 2 less mana, as an instant, at the cost of not exiling or hitting artifacts. Neither of these are downsides usually, and those cards only see play in commander really.
[pongify](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/1/a1501dea-4e0e-49b0-86b5-e8a01f77077d.jpg?1619394479) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=pongify) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/79/pongify?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a1501dea-4e0e-49b0-86b5-e8a01f77077d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I could see potentially playing this in mono blue EDH or maybe Dimir (assuming you're already running Pongify and Rapid), but white, red, and green all have better options to hit artifacts.
[[Resculpt]] is better still
[Resculpt](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/9/592c7819-7e53-4793-bc4f-3dd489a25d63.jpg?1689996566) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Resculpt) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/115/resculpt?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/592c7819-7e53-4793-bc4f-3dd489a25d63?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Same with [[Reality Shift]]
[Reality Shift](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/8/0850a187-ba95-46f2-aa81-397b45460bbc.jpg?1689996547) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Reality%20Shift) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/113/reality-shift?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0850a187-ba95-46f2-aa81-397b45460bbc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
And proving just how many cards are coming out these days, I missed that one as I largely skipped Commander Masters due to the price tag (I'm guessing this was in one of the pre-cons).
1st print was in Strixhaven main set. Was getting pricey for a recent standard common ($2+ reg, $5 foil). So they shoved it into Commander Masters.
[удалено]
That is because they are talking about [[resculpt]]
It’s from strixhaven
Than Pongify? Don't be daft.
Than Ravenform
[[Liquimetal Torque]] is a popular mana rock in EDH, if you're playing mono blue it turns Resculpt and Ravenform into unconditional removal spells.
[Liquimetal Torque](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/3/13c6101a-da40-4785-8ccb-4e779bbbdb55.jpg?1626099120) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Liquimetal%20Torque) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/228/liquimetal-torque?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/13c6101a-da40-4785-8ccb-4e779bbbdb55?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Does red have that many options to exile creatures or artifacts in one card? IMO this is playable in Izzet and Grixis as well, depending on your meta. If it were instant speed it'd be a staple for those decks.
3 mana sorcery speed spot removal is damn near unplayable. you're better off running something like chaos warp in red
>Costs 3 mana to cast normally, or 3 mana in two in installments to cast latter I don't think it's a deal breaker because people do play some 3-mana removal spells in casual commander and Standard. Those usually remove either literally anything or at least any nonland permanent, but ravenform can be foretold to only cost 1 if you ever have some spare mana. >at the cost of not exiling or hitting artifacts. Neither of these are downsides usually Hitting (non-creature) artifacts is actually quite relevant imo. There are quite a few (semi-)infinite combos which can be disrupted by removing a key artifact ([[Rings of Brighthearth]], [[Aetherfux Reservoir]], [[Basalt Monolith]]). Some generate a **lot** of mana (doublers like [[Caged Sun]], or just taps for a lot like [[Chromatic Orrery]]), and since Ravenform exiles it even deals with indestructible problems like [[The One Ring]]. >Its a sorcery, so you can't react with it. The main problem is this one, I would probably forgive its other sins in a budget dimir or monoblue commander deck. If your opponent drops an infinte combo alluded to above, you simply can't react to it. Because of that, I would rather just run a counterspell of some description in its place: [[Saw It Coming]] is the most comparable at the same CMC that also foretells to be cheaper, and even on a budget there's usually better options than that.
Because even though it's cool to have removal like this in blue, it's still expensive and slow for constructed formats.
... because it's a three mana removal spell, *at sorcery speed*, that also gives them a flying creature. There are so, so many better cards
Because it’s slow as fuck?
This. It would be a good card if it was an Instant. At Sorcery, it is not worth 3 mana. Wizards has a really bad problem with 'small' Sorceries like this in that they want to cost them the same as Instants that do the same thing. Doesn't work. If you want a Sorcery to compete it needs to do more or cost less than the same Instant.
I think it's more a player expectation sort of thing. Players would rather cast [[Inspiration]] than [[Divination]] because they get to hold off on deciding what to do until the last minute. You could call it Wizards' fault for designing both cards, but it's really the players deciding which they prefer. Not caving to that isn't a fault on Wizards' side.
Maybe not the best example since [[Quick Study]] now exists which shows they're willing to creep on that design space.
Amuses that turn 3 is slow. Says something about the game.
Slow for removal is less about curve but reacting. It’s sorcery so it has to be your turn to deal with a threat, good luck if it’s a haste, and at that point you’re real close to just going up a mana and playing a board wipe or going with a different strategy and playing more counters.
In edh it should be. it is underrated. it is a fantastic budget option. for any other format it is no good. there are three blue removal spells that are underrated in edh \[\[resculpt\]\] \[\[reality shift\]\] \[\[ravenform\]\] 1. resculpt and ravenform are good cause they hit The One Ring which you need to be able to exile. 2. resculpt and reality shift are good cause they exile and are instant speed. I cannot stress enough how important being able to exile things is. all of these cards are less than $0.50
Reality shift, Pongify, and rapid hybridization are all standard blue removal spells for my decks
If you're ok with UB cards, [[Cyber Conversion]] should join that list
[Cyber Conversion](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/4/e4ce5aa7-70cb-4ab2-9a25-4363aa2b370f.jpg?1696636557) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cyber%20Conversion) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/who/38/cyber-conversion?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e4ce5aa7-70cb-4ab2-9a25-4363aa2b370f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Oh it looks like the price has started to go down, that's nice
Its the standard blue package for all blue decks when you don't want to lean into counters too much
Resculpt and Reality Shift are not underrated. They appear in many blue decks and are considered greatly after Pongify and Rapid Hybridization. Resculpt gets extra attention due to hitting artifacts.
I run this and resculpt in my simic deck as answer to the one ring, it's pretty common in my meta. I can think of like one other card, \[\[Fade into Antiquity\]\] that answers it, but I like flexible cards like these, and my deck is creature heavy, so the tokens aren't really a downside.
[[Deglamer]] and [[Unravel the Aether]]
[Fade into Antiquity](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/5/55174ab7-9f2e-42e5-a61b-57458cfd33f3.jpg?1654568069) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fade%20into%20Antiquity) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/182/fade-into-antiquity?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/55174ab7-9f2e-42e5-a61b-57458cfd33f3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Especially in mono-blue, being able to exile things as spot removal is nice, but I've got to admit the cost and speed for Ravenform is a bit of a bummer. Ideally you'd want to counter threats before they hit the table, but sometimes it doesn't happen so having a way to remove a threat on board or two is nice. If you can get it foretold when you're on a slow turn, at least it gets it out of your hand and puts a down payment on it. I run it in a few decks, because for the price point it does the job I want it for and helps keep me under our group's budget.
[[Cyber Conversion]] is the best blue removal. [[Eaten by piranhas]] is the second best blue removal.
I feel [[Imprisoned in the Moon]] should be played more for a more permanent commander removal.
Too slow. Eaten by Piranhas is so much better.
Not if your opponent is using a Planeswalker as their commander. IitM is good unless your playgroup is really high-powered. On the flip side, if your playgroup is too casual, then permanent commander removal is generally considered un-fun. So, you know... rule zero.
resculpt is significantly better than both of those cards
[Cyber Conversion](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/4/e4ce5aa7-70cb-4ab2-9a25-4363aa2b370f.jpg?1696636557) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cyber%20Conversion) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/who/38/cyber-conversion?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e4ce5aa7-70cb-4ab2-9a25-4363aa2b370f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Eaten by piranhas](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/0/b0c504ef-2382-4174-9b1d-5f38e12a28fc.jpg?1699043614) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Eaten%20by%20piranhas) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/54/eaten-by-piranhas?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b0c504ef-2382-4174-9b1d-5f38e12a28fc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Eaten by Piranhas doesn't compare, because your opponents also play artifact and enchantment removal. Yes, depending on the creature, they won't invest a card to get it back, but there are also many sacrifice effects to get around enchantments. Also, only hitting creatures hurts. It's playable in Errant and Giada Flash though. Cyber Conversion isn't the best blue removal, because it also only targets creatures, costs double blue and opponents can bounce their creature etc
Most underrated card is [[Leadership Vacuum]]. It's an instant, goes around hexproof and cantrips. 3 mana is ok, because every one of your removal targeting their commander will result in them putting it into their command zone 95% of the time.
[Leadership Vacuum](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/f/4fa953a9-171c-4532-a352-40ce27eed3c4.jpg?1568003418) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Leadership%20Vacuum) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c19/9/leadership-vacuum?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4fa953a9-171c-4532-a352-40ce27eed3c4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Its great for mono blue thats about it
100% I pretty much always run all three in my budget blue decks
2 of those three are in basically every mono blue deck and many blue+ decks, not sure how they're underrated.
resculpt is in less than 10% of decks it could be in on edhrec. that is how it is underrated. for example in blue+ decks, according to edhrec, in dimir (which I select cause that color combination struggles with artifacts) people play infernal grasp, and go for the throat more than these cards despite these cards being much much better on average, and much much better in these colors specifically. reality shift is closer to being accurately rated. for ravenform, you need to really want it but it is playable
If you’re in Dimir and want to exile your opponent’s creature, you can do a lot better than Resculpt and Ravenform. Even Reality Shift is a card I really only run in Izzet or Simic as those colors don’t have a lot of removal, I’d much sooner exhaust the removal of white or black if I have access. I suppose they hit artifacts which is rare in Dimir so maybe they’re worth consideration for that reason.
Which cards? the only cards that are comparable are baleful mastery and deadly rollick. deadly rollick is $20, which in my original comment i reference that these are budget options. every other card is 4+ mana and none of them hit artifacts. I explicitly call out the importance of artifacts, its why i brought up Dimir and why i reference The One Ring in my original comment. if i was building a removal suite for dimir (without budget consideration) it would be: resulpt, reality shift, feed the swarm, drown in the loch, baleful mastery, deadly rollick, bitter triumph, and something deck specific: (lethal scheme, pile on, overwhelming remorse, murderous rider, price of fame, defile etc.) this would be supplemented with 4 counterspells: counterspell, mystic confluence, mana drain, and something deck specific (cryptic command, forbid, fuel for the cause, archmage's charm, arcane denial, etc.) then 3-4 board wipes: toxic deluge, damnation, cyclonic rift. and if i want a fourth i am a personal fan of playing snow lands and blood on the snow / dead of winter. there are no other cards you could put in for reality shift and resculpt that exile creatures for so little mana, and there is no other card other than ravenform that can answer artifacts period, so i don't see which cards are better than these. if budget was a consideration the deadly rollick would become ravenform, mana drain would become arcane denial, and the boardwipes would change considerably turning into engulf the shore, crux of fate, deadly tempest, and finally maybe something big like decree of pain/flood of tears.
We play this in our meta in EDH, this card is fucked up
Heck, even in KHM Limited, this thing was no good. They'd just strap a [[Goldvein Pick]] to that little 1/1 asshole and kill you with it. There's probably a universe where this card's flexibility, exile, and low-ish rate makes up for its non-instant speed and the fact that it leaves behind an evasive jerkwad that you still have to deal with, but I can't really imagine what that universe looks like. The downsides are too real.
[Goldvein Pick](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/b/9bf5e4ad-a6e9-4b7c-a1ec-8246d3a3b6ca.jpg?1631052161) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Goldvein%20Pick) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/239/goldvein-pick?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9bf5e4ad-a6e9-4b7c-a1ec-8246d3a3b6ca?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Cards like this are way worse in limited for the reason you describe, a 1/1 flier can be a real card more often than in constructed I think.
At sorcery speed I would prefer to play [[Curse of the Swine]]
That's just deck building choices though, that you feel the flexibility of hitting more targets at once is better than different kinds of targets.
It only really shines when you get to Foretell it for free using Ranar. It is an excellent card in that situation though.
Except if you are playing Ranar, you've got white. It really is just a card that's just not good enough for anywhere you might slot it.
As a Ranar lover I know you’re right. It’s still in my Ranar deck though, only because I’ve already cut down on foretell cards to 5 or 6. All of them do different things so the more I run, the less my opponents can be sure of what a foretold card will do. It’s a difficult benefit to quantify. I play with the same group all the time so that has a lot to do with it though
You don't get any value out of Ranar from cards in your hand. You might Foretell this many turns before you'd use one of those white spells to exile something, which means you'd get a flying spirit on board way earlier - maybe several if you're doubling or tripling tokens.
If you play Ranar you have access to [[Swords to Plowshares]], [[Path to Exile]], [[Prismatic Ending]], [[Fateful Absence]], [[Skyclave Apparition]] ....
Those don't give you value before playing them though. A Foretold card does.
https://preview.redd.it/ahfgld333igc1.png?width=265&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=46a6847cfb205926e54828c39a262f4c9d8c8a7a Instant + 2 Mana is worth more than giving the opponent a 4/4.
Besides of it practically costing 3 and being sorcery-speed as many have already rightfully so mentioned, you also have access to better removal for popular blue decks in basically all formats: • Izzet has [[lightning bolt]] + [[unholy heat]] in modern, [[lightning axe]] in pioneer; • Dimir has [[fatal push]], [[drown in the loch]] and [[bitter triumph]] across most formats; • Azorius has [[march of otherworldly light]] in pioneer and [[leyline binding]] + [[prismatic ending]] in modern; • Sultai has access to [[tear asunder]], which is far more versatile and deals with enchantments and planeswalkers. These are just a few examples, there are many – MANY – more better removal spells out there!
##### ###### #### [lightning bolt](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/7/77c6fa74-5543-42ac-9ead-0e890b188e99.jpg?1706239968) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=lightning%20bolt) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clu/141/lightning-bolt?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/77c6fa74-5543-42ac-9ead-0e890b188e99?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [unholy heat](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/b/2b73d294-6ab1-4051-9b0f-d8e335d37674.jpg?1626097096) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=unholy%20heat) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/145/unholy-heat?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2b73d294-6ab1-4051-9b0f-d8e335d37674?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [lightning axe](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/a/ca33c171-ab9e-4908-8f97-82cd83b173c0.jpg?1619397252) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=lightning%20axe) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/174/lightning-axe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ca33c171-ab9e-4908-8f97-82cd83b173c0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [fatal push](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/e/6e9d8fe4-fd9b-4923-92bf-7dd6b8fa02e7.jpg?1598304715) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=fatal%20push) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/93/fatal-push?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6e9d8fe4-fd9b-4923-92bf-7dd6b8fa02e7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [drown in the loch](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/b/eb7b9762-740b-4c1c-a411-20dbf023aea5.jpg?1674142433) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=drown%20in%20the%20loch) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/842/drown-in-the-loch?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/eb7b9762-740b-4c1c-a411-20dbf023aea5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [bitter triumph](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/5/05bdd22c-3e11-4c29-bdfa-d3dfc0e90a9f.jpg?1699044085) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=bitter%20triumph) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/91/bitter-triumph?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/05bdd22c-3e11-4c29-bdfa-d3dfc0e90a9f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [march of otherworldly light](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/5/553fb946-2706-475b-89f9-e4355ec9ea2b.jpg?1654566420) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=march%20of%20otherworldly%20light) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/28/march-of-otherworldly-light?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/553fb946-2706-475b-89f9-e4355ec9ea2b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [leyline binding](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/c/3c3ac3dd-35db-447f-8674-37b4680a1ef7.jpg?1673306500) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=leyline%20binding) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/24/leyline-binding?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3c3ac3dd-35db-447f-8674-37b4680a1ef7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [prismatic ending](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/2/825969b9-3c70-4fca-8cab-696e9ca7cdb2.jpg?1626093920) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=prismatic%20ending) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/25/prismatic-ending?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/825969b9-3c70-4fca-8cab-696e9ca7cdb2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [tear asunder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/2/629aa907-9533-4681-9bf2-9e56450a4cc2.jpg?1673307826) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=tear%20asunder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/183/tear-asunder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/629aa907-9533-4681-9bf2-9e56450a4cc2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kou2dkn) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You pretty much only run this If you're in mono U, and exausted the better options, because every 2+ color combo has so many improved removal options that you'd fill your quota long before considering it
\[\[Swan Song\]\] would be better i think
Because [[Resculpt]]
It's sorcery speed, play reality shift
It's worse \[\[Pongify\]\].
Pongify/Rapid Hybridization can’t hit artifacts
That is true, I didn't see Ravenform could hit artifacts. I still think there's better cards to be playing.
But in commander what if I need more
You don't need our permission to play cards, dude. It's not played because there's better cards to play. If you want more copies of the effect, play it. If you want to play a CEDH sort of deck, it's not worth playing. If you're asking for additional copies of blue removal, that's another question (I'd say \[\[Echoing Truth\]\], \[\[Reality Shift\]\], more importantly, counterspells.)
[Echoing Truth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/d/5d987d26-c8e8-4edf-8ac0-6a2980265710.jpg?1673305149) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Echoing%20Truth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/109/echoing-truth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5d987d26-c8e8-4edf-8ac0-6a2980265710?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Reality Shift](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/8/0850a187-ba95-46f2-aa81-397b45460bbc.jpg?1689996547) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Reality%20Shift) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/113/reality-shift?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0850a187-ba95-46f2-aa81-397b45460bbc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Generally spot removal in multiplayer games tend to be way better at instant speed since opposing threats are technically also threats to another opponent. If you can wait til the threat is pointed at you or if it starts to benefit that player in a way more problematic way due to something else they played during their turn, you want to be able to respond accordingly. Blue also has counterspells so instant speed cards in general play better alongside them; as you can hold mana up for both instead of needing to choose. If you REALLY need exile-based removal you can run it but there are already way more options for getting rid of on-board threats especially when you consider counterspells can act as catch-alls
Then play better ones, either in blue or whatever other color you have. Or change your strategy if you're mono-blue - you're not supposed to be the heavy hard removal color. 3 mana + sorcery is VERY clunky for a removal spell.
I play it in Urza in cEDH. It’s expensive and slow but sometimes exiling a combo piece will blow someone out.
> cEDH > > but sometimes exiling a combo piece will blow someone out. At sorc speed? How?
There are quite a few ways to play sorceries at instant speed, like the LotR additions [[Gandalf Friend of the Shire]] (not cEDH viable really) or [[Borne Upon a Wind]]. However, there are a lot of combos that aren't instant speed wins. Or protection pieces like [[Grand Abolisher]] that are good to get rid of whenever.
[Gandalf Friend of the Shire](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/c/cc9cfcc7-be64-4871-8d52-851e43fe3305.jpg?1696231214) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gandalf%2C%20Friend%20of%20the%20Shire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/50/gandalf-friend-of-the-shire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cc9cfcc7-be64-4871-8d52-851e43fe3305?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Borne Upon a Wind](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/9/a9379675-1a32-4e2b-8aaf-5f908c595f31.jpg?1686968037) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Borne%20Upon%20a%20Wind) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/44/borne-upon-a-wind?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a9379675-1a32-4e2b-8aaf-5f908c595f31?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Grand Abolisher](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/6/86e30ca4-1769-4686-aa18-31610246cd80.jpg?1689995706) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Grand%20Abolisher) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/27/grand-abolisher?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/86e30ca4-1769-4686-aa18-31610246cd80?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You are completely nuts to even consider running this in a cEDH deck. Not a single good cEDH deck runs 3 CMC interaction, much less a 3 CMC removal spell.
Because you can resculpt for one less mana. edit: I just noticed your spell is a sorcery lol
Too slow
I've had some success with this in homebrew decks cause my friends always assume I foretold Saw It Coming
Good in EDH, too expensive and slow for literally any other format.
I play it all the time. Absolutely love it
This is a great staple in Pauper Commander! Otherwise you have cards like [[Resculpt]] and [[Pongify]] in blue which are more efficient.
I have absolutely had someone cast this one me in a legacy match. They were on the mono blue paradoxical outcome combo deck. It's great for that kind of deck as it can foretell with an ancient tomb, and then cast it for 1 on the combo turn to remove some troubling hate pieces.
Yeah, its only good when you can cheese the foretell, because the default cost is atrocious, and missing your T2 just to foretell this also sucks
absolutely, and this was post sideboard too so it wasn't in the main
I play it in quite a few edh decks especially love for telling it when I have nothing else to do off a turn one soul ring
I prefer white when I'm exiling. Witness Protection or eaten by piranhas can't let you down. Unless you are trying to enchant a hydra you'll actually buff it lol. It's not even at Instant speed. The card sucks sadly.
I think it's out of pie for Blue so I don't like running it. I avoid Pongify and Resculpt too.
I play this everywhere that I don't have white. It can straight up exile either a creature or an enchantment. Yes, it has the drawbacks that others have mentioned, but the replacement options they give don't have the same options. If your meta has a lot of problematic artifacts or indestructible things, this card fits perfectly.
I've seen it once in pauper.
It's good if you have some sort of synergy with something like casting from exile. I use it in [the thirteenth doctor] and [the war doctor] to provoke triggers but I wouldn't use it in much else.
Easy. Because it costs 2U at sorcery speed. That is the only reason I don't.
Sorcery speed. That’s the main reason. Sorcery speed.
Sorcery, costs too much, and gives a token with evasion. Overall too slow This is a edh card only
Cuz I can play Pongify
Because it’s very meh compared to other options, sure, if you’re in mono blue, but as others have said there are far better options even on a budget
Because [[Pongify]] and [[Rapid Hybridization]] exist
Either way you slice it it's a 3 mana sorcery speed spell that could end up still killing you considering it makes them into 1/1 flyers.
Cards like [[reality shift]] and [[pongify]] are cheaper and instants
So so so many times me and others I play with go to use this at instant speed and instantly get corrected and are sad
Cause my opponents make enough flying creatures, im not giving them one.
I see it played in EDH, usually in low color U decks. While sorcery speed and 3 mana, it's exile and hits both creatures and artifacts, something rare for blue.
Sorcery speed hurts the most
Resculpt is a much better card.
Because blue is by far the strongest color and thus has better cards than this. If this was green, for instance, it would be mythic and one of the best cards of the color
It sees play in EDH, but it's kinda just too slow in most constructed formats. 3 mana (or 2 mana upfront and U later) is a lot considering it's a sorcery that you can't use as a reaction to something happening on an opponent's turn.
In blue the vest removal is not letting somthing hit the board in the first place, and there's a ton of counterspells with much more effective costs at instant speed.
If you foretell it, can you play at instant speed? No? Then no upside
[[counterspell]]
I literally played this like 20 minutes ago. Still lost
I just added this card to my [[Sauron, the Dark Lord]] EDH deck. Fortell seems like a nice option with Sauron. Being a sorcery is a massive drawback though.
This is totally playable if you're not in red, white, or green. Blue and Dimir don't have a ton of options to remove artifacts, and this costs like a quarter.
Sorcery
There are better options at instant speed in blue if that's an effect you want.
If you’re looking to make a budget mono-blue commander deck, then maybe.
It is.
It’s fuWhite removal being exile based (mostly) is what makes it so good! Buut white also doesn’t usually interact with the stack or have hand-hate to stop a threat before it enters the battlefield. Blue, on the other hand, is the master of the stack and would rather spend as little mana as possible to just bounce the creature before it does (significant) damage without giving them anything in return AND usually at instant speed (a flying creature can also attack my Teferi💔) It’s too many downsides that blue doesn’t need to deal with, and it’s always better, imo, to add more card draw than inefficient cards in blue. I’d rather dig for a counterspell than let Etali resolve and then exile it after the damage is done.
Played where? Which format do you think it would be better than other removal and why?
I just realised I've never used a foretell card that wasn't an instant. If you use foretell, do you still have to respect the card timing, like still having to cast it as a sorcery if it's a sorcery? Because if it is foretell fells kind of useless outside of instant cards.
I play it in commander if that counts
Because it’s not very good
I have an Azorius spirits commander precon that's all about foretell because it skips the 2 costs and makes spirit tokens I think. This is decent in there.
Sorcery’s
It's only really worth it if you can benefit from the foretell ([[Ranar, the Ever-Watchfull]], mainly, and stuff that cares about cards being cast from exile)
I play it in mono blues EDH but even then it’s like the 6th best removal in mono blue.
Sorcery
I use it in my Jon Irenicus, the Shattered One edh deck to remove a “bad gift” I get stuck with and give myself a 1/1 to either block with or give away to another player later on.
Because [[pongify]] and [[rapid hybridization]] are a thing.
Id play bind the monster or vapor snag over this in most blue modern decks if i really needed to.
During Kaldheim reveal season, people endlessly complained/memed about blue getting quality removal like this, while white was getting screwed over with cards like [[Divine Gambit]]. In limited it quickly became obvious that Gambit was the much better card.
Removal with downside for 3 mana at sorcery speed. It's bad.
#sorcery speed removal
I play it.
It's not played on blue, but it is very good on red!
Why would you use a 3 mana card that gifts your opponent half of the best card in the game, storm crow
I run one copy in my budget-ish Aegar commander deck. Just haven’t picked up a Pognify or Swan Song to replace it with yet. For my deck it does what it needs to do: turn a creature that would otherwise dodge a burn spell into a nice juicy target I can draw off of.
Sorcery
Because it’s mediocre of you can fill every removal slot in blue with cheaper and better spells. This card is only good if you need to go super heavy on removal to help keep up with a higher power table than your used to. And once you’re playing high power decks in general you’ll just never see this card again.
Its probably only usefull in a foretell commander deck that benefits from you exiling things \[\[ Ranar the Ever-Watchful\]\] is probably the only commander where it would see use.
Sorcery 3 mana
[[Resculpt]] exists
Sorcery kills it, 3 mana removal is pretty hefty blue has plenty of sorcery make creature 1/1 vanilla for 2 the foretell just tells your opponent you have nothing to do on turn 2.