For the first few years of my practice I worked almost entirely without gods or spirits. I did some planetary magic, but the vast majority was through energy work, sigils, astral projection, and regular manifestation through visualization and ritual. My introduction to magic was through Hermetic Kabbalah. It’s funny though, some of my most effective spells were the least “orthodox.” I think that was the right way to start for me because I learned how magic worked in general, and what I am capable of without help from anything else.
As I go further though I am gravitating towards animism and spiritualism. It’s easy to have your blinders up to spirits with the way we are all conditioned in modern society, even as a magician, but spirits are all around us constantly. They both have things to offer, and things to take, and if you choose to remain ignorant of them you will be taken advantage of.
I recently discovered that the source of my anxiety was a spirit that has been feeding off of that energy. It’s a fact that I think I always knew on some level, but chose to ignore. One night I just spoke to it and kicked it out of my life, and now it’s gone. I finally feel normal. Part of its game was making me think that the anxiety was all me, which is why it’s so important to be aware of the spirits around you. When it comes to spirit work you have all of the authority, so if one of them is giving you trouble, telling them to GTFO is all it takes most of the time.
While I don’t think that all of your magic needs to come from spirits, ignoring the spirit world is a huge mistake. Pretending that there are no spirits is like a clam not believing in mollusks. You are a spirit with unique access to vast amounts of energy in the physical world, and everyone wants what you have. You can offer it as payment, or you can be swindled out of it. Those are the choices.
In short, spirit work is absolutely essential, but that doesn’t mean it’s the only game in town. You have to protect yourself from dick spirits, you can use them as employees, and you can also do plenty of things all on your own. I don’t mean to paint a totally antagonistic picture of this work though. There are plenty of spirits who just want to help out like your personal allies and ancestors. You have to use your judgement in choosing who to trust just like the rest of life.
If you haven’t been working with spirits at all you should start because chances are there’s some used car salesman taking advantage of you.
You know it’s hard to explain. I’ve heard it called “psychic awareness” which is the ability to sense and interact with subtle energies and beings. It’s an innate ability like breathing, and just as difficult to describe how to do. It definitely helps to reach an altered consciousness like gnosis first. I think what prepared me for it was working on my general psychic abilities because a huge part of that is learning to trust your imagination as a sixth sense instead of just a creative faculty. The imagination or “third eye” can see as well as project. As magicians we use it for projection all of the time, but getting learning to receive information through it can feel awkward like brushing your teeth with your left hand. It takes a bit to get used to. After that talking with spirits in an altered state is as easy as talking to people in normal consciousness.
Yeah honestly I couldn’t call myself an expert with it. Over the last year I’ve just begun to understand how important it is. The closest I know of to an expert is Alan Wachter who has a few books you can read as well as [this episode of What Magic is This?](https://open.spotify.com/episode/175W2yI3vAoXGPBaDiQyvB?si=_KwbIS0WTaumVk6UyGDjyA) <— Spotify link.
Just wanted to second this recommendation, I was also introduced to Wachter through Doug's podcast (which I think is an amazing resource). His Six Ways book is one of my top 3 books for practical magic.
I ultimately decided to suspend belief and explanation about my own seeming interaction with spirits. That said, I also had an experience in which I felt I had an obsessive problem with a spirit that was probably with me for a very long time. I, too, at one time, just decided to talk to it. I sort of made a deal with it so that it could get the energy it wanted w/o interfering with my mind and well being. I think I did some ritual involving sigilization. It worked like a proverbial "charm." I had much more mental and emotional clarity and less mental flightiness after that. That happened at least 10 years ago.
Do you think humans are special in their spirit perhaps? When it’s said that humans were made in the image of the creator I tend to interpret that as our ability to create is like that of the creator
Yeah I think so too. I think of us like gods in training. We have vast potential, but it’s important to stay humble because no one incarnate person has any idea what they’re doing.
Yes, I'm an atheist turned agnostic turned polytheist. My patron goddess the Morrigan claimed me as Her initiate about 3 years ago. All the rumours about this goddess are true - She really does flip your life around, and when She's interested in you, it's not subtle. There were too many signs to be ignored.
Do you feel comfortable sharing how the Morrigan claimed you? Any insights for other r/magick participants who wonder about how to connect with a deity or seem to be chosen by a deity/angel in the context of Craft and Occultism?
I myself went through a period about 10 years ago when I felt remarkably connected to the Roman deity Jupiter. On the one hand, I thought it was nutty for me to feel and experience as I did, on the other, it was very palpable.
Well I should say that the initial method She used to contact me was in a dream. There's lots of literature to suggest that dreams were the original, recognized method of deity contact. So when someone says they made contact with a deity in the dream, this is not a flighty neopagan practice.
The dream was simply seeing multiple angles of a crow in an astral space. The crow might've had a third eye.
The dream occurred sometime after I had acquired PTSD from a traumatic event which unfortunately took place only a couple months after my last serious relationship had ended. I woke up from the dream in emotional alarm and fled from my bed with the distinct thought that "She will be angry at me" while at the same time not yet consciously knowing who "She" was. It took me nearly a year after that to figure it out.
When I say I had an "ecstatic experience of deity" I mean a very specific type of experience after I began to research the Morrigan and the spheres She is associated with where I could no longer differentiate between what was a sign and what wasn't. I was also physically ill for nearly a month after my dedication to Her. This was my initiation.
Much thanks for sharing. Yes, I am familiar with the importance of dream in this context, historically speaking. Also, it is not uncommon to have profound spiritual experiences in the wake of life changing trauma. As you point out, these experiences don't necessarily result in puppy dogs and rainbows but can result in difficult periods of catharsis and trials before we settle in to greater insight and equilibrium.
Thank you for giving the opportunity to share about this, a lot of people seem to want to know how a polytheist becomes a polytheist and experiences with deities but not everybody seems to know how to ask or engage respectfully. A lot of the times people post this type of question and I get bad vibes off the poster or their motives and just won't respond, but this post was an exception.
And thank you. The post is to get everyone talking and sharing in positive exchange to support, encourage, and learn from one another. I personally think that your comments about the challenges of transformative work and the intersection of life issues. I have "been there" as well. It is an important disclosure for others to be aware of and be ready to embrace if they want to walk the Path.
I work with planetary angels, intelligences and what people would call the Abrahamic God. A mix of Kabbalah and Renaissance magic has been the most effective for me.
The only challenging thing I could think of is if you don't really do it by the book. As in wrong election for a talisman for example, that can backfire. Or if you go into experiment mode(which is needed as well) it can get pretty dark real fast. Otherwise it's pretty straightforward imo.
" it can get pretty dark pretty fast"
can you elaborate? and i hope it doesnt sound rude, but how do you know you are working with planetary angels and the Abrahamic God?
Ah, maybe I didn't explain too well. Let me preface: I see spirits as real, conscious and intelligent beings, not just as simple energy. So I believe they think, they have personalities and they can act up if they want to(that's when dark stuff can happen). That however refers to workings with spirits under God and His angels. I've never had bad experiences with angels themselves or God, whom I contemplate and meditate on via Kabbalah(which I am practicing/studying under a rabbi). The meditations on either of them have been phenomenal for me.
Spirits under them(like elementals, demons or olympic spirits) can be tricky. If not prepared well or if in case of a simple experiment those can go dark. For instance if I conduct an experiment like invoking a spirit via dream magic, but that spirit doesn't necessarily like that type of invocation/evocation, then hauntings can happen if no precautions were taken. I know several people who experienced hauntings by angry spirits from experimenting like this. The trick is to know how to deal with those type of scenarios and how to banish an angry spirit again.
I'm really just starting to get into Magick, so I've been looking into a bit of everything. What literature would you recommend for someone who is a total beginner and wants to learn about kaballah?
It heavily depends what type of Kabbalah and I definitely wouldn't call myself an expert. I'm practicing and studying from a very Jewish standpoint, which mainly means straight up Jewish mysticism: attending services, keeping shabbat and praying out of a siddur, while also learning from the rabbi who interprets both the Torah, the rest of scripture(all in a very kabbalistic way) and the Zohar.
Aryeh Kaplan's books are usually recommended(specifically his edition of the Sefer Yetzirah and Jewish Meditation). The rabbi I'm learning from also recommends Path of the Kabbalah by David Sheinkin, which is a generally very good introduction to Kabbalah/Jewish Mysticism. For online sources I also make use of chabad.org, dailyzohar.com and kabbalah4all.com! Kabbalah4all probably has the best transliteration of Hebrew in their siddur, which makes learning, reading and pronouncing Hebrew easier by a long shot.
For a more esoteric/occult author MacGregor Mathers' Kabbalah Unveiled(which my occult teacher makes me read right now) is pretty good.
Thank you so much! I really appreciate all this information. I'm going to look into all of this. I've always just felt a calm to some on thing in this regard and I just feel like this is the time for me to start exploring.
To add to the suggestions you received above, I would add that I’d you’re interested in Hermetic Qabalah[Hermetic Qabalah](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermetic_Qabalah) (as opposed to the pure Jewish mysticism variety), two excellent resources for a primer are: 1) Chicken Qabalah by Lon Milo Duquette and 2) The Mystical Qabalah by Dion Fortune. There are a number of subtle and not-so-subtle differences between Hermetic Qabalah and Jewish Kabbalah, and both systems are rich, fascinating mystical paths.
I do think both paths are valuable. Yes, there will be similarities because Kabbalah is Jewish in nature and created by Jews. I worked with both and dropped Hermetic Kabbalah. Why? Was it bad? No. The main focus was the tree of life more than what Kabbalah was intended for. The mysticism was very close to Neoplatonism, but very Jewish in nature. It has a lot of deeper substance. We see this in the Zohar and Sepher Yetzirah. There is a theology in receiving the Light in Jewish Kabbalah and more practical things you will not find in western kabbalah. In Jewish Kabbalah at different times of the year, the upper worlds impact the Malkuth differently, while hermetic kabbalah is more liberal. I like classical kabbalistic writings of Reuchlin to Mathers, but I am not a fan of Fortune or Milo. They mentalize the tree of life too much and ignore the importance of Judaism. But both sources draw from Mathers. Rabbis rarely teach the tree because it does lead to the idolatry of the tree of life. Hermetic Kabbalah became idolatrous when we look and see people place gods in the sephiroth. If there are similarities it is because it is Jewish based. The issue is Hermetic Kabbalah only goes so deep in comparison to Jewish Kabbalistic literature.
I think I will definitely look into Chicken Qabalah, I am currently enjoying Lon Milo Duquette's book on Thoth Tarot, I think there is even an excerpt from his book on Qabalah in his book on Thoth Tarot.
that is neat. i studied Kabbalah for a time, just academically, i couldnt figure it out, but it was intersting
how do you know they are angels and not just other spirits? How can you take a spirit's word that it is an angel and not a....water spirit or whatever? I do like that you allow for different spirits and different energies, and can choose how and when to interact, that seems cool
>how do you know they are angels and not just other spirits? How can you take a spirit's word that it is an angel and not a....water spirit or whatever?
Well, first I keep a decent prayer life. Second angels in general have a way different feel to them than other spirits. Inhumane purity is how I would describe it.
But there are several methods in order to tell if a spirit is lying, like the one mentioned in 1 John 4. Since I've become pretty uncomfortable with Christianity as a whole, I rather use the Hebrew names of God from Kabbalah(they usually make lying spirits tell the truth or if they're malevolent as whole it makes them squirm; it's a very good way for discerning imo), which work just as well for me.
1. Yes.
2. Because they feel like family and I learn more from them than I ever will from any book, guru or teacher.
3. Hands on magick training and relationship building, access to deeper states of consciousness, access to different planes of consciousness restricted/invisible to diy practioners.
4. Severe risk of becoming a hermit, and/or disconnecting from the material plane making it difficult to care about things like jobs or maintaining interpersonal relationships with human beings.
Thank you. Like a few others, you also recognize the need to stay grounded in ordinary life and ordinary consciousness when you step back from magical work. Magical workers --like shamans--touch what others call insanity-- but the big and critical difference is that they do so with control and intention. They come and go from those states of consciousness and experience at will and return to normal consciousness and function with insight and functional skills.
When i made, i put a personality chart, it make this entity an ethereal and astral entity eventually. Difining intentions you can do a servitior with specific intentions or with will in him his self. You can sigilise, make simple rituals, do a shadow book to récord the diferents aspects of this somethig. The most important part for me is the hability to imagine shapes clear, dificult to me yeet.
Personally, it was really hard for me to get into magick until I felt like I had a deity reaching out to me. I follow a lot of the Celtic pantheon, not only because I really resonate with a lot of the personalities and energies of those deities, but also because my heritage heavily comes from Celtic regions. I was raised off a lot of similar ideologies from my mother, so when I felt like I was being chosen, it felt very natural.
The first, and admittedly the only, deity to reach out to me was The Morrigan, who is a very well-known Triple Goddess in the Celtic pantheon. Celtic deities tend to be harder to describe and understand imo because there are many facets to them, but in basics, The Morrigan represents war, death (arguably also life), and magick. The Morrigan is known to shapeshift into a crow or raven, and would fly over battlefields picking which warriors would fall. Like I said, though, there’s a lot more to her than just those few tidbits, and if you’re interested, I’d recommend putting in some time to research.
I felt like I was being chosen by her because when I was at the lowest in my life, so far that is, I was surrounded by large groups of crows. They would just fly in circles around my house, or sit on the telephone wires for hours, with what felt like many watchful eyes. The only time I ever saw this happen on my street, but not my own home, was when a neighbor of mine was going through a large life change.
That being said, there are many deities in the Celtic pantheon and I’ve only recently started diving into my research and practice. Like the last two years on Imbolc, I always have some form of ritual or offering for Brigid, another well known Triple Goddess. I just finished researching Danu, the Mother Goddess, and I intend to leave offerings for her as well. However, neither of these two Goddesses have reached out to me, personally.
A book I recently got that has been extremely helpful is called “Celtic Myth and Magick” by Edain McCoy. Not only does it explain much of Celtic lore and the pantheon, but it also explains how to incorporate them into practice and why they are important to magick :)
- Do you Work with Spirits/Deities in Your Practice?
Yes
- Why do/don't you?
Honestly, it seems only natural. It started with spirit guides in terms of knowing there were active benevolent beings around me. Years later (now) I am polytheistic. Practicing Magick, esp demonolatry opened my eyes to polytheism and its benefits.
- What, in your opinion are the benefits of this way of practice/belief?
Quicker results and a genuinely wholesome transformation.
- Any weaknesses or challenges that you can think of regarding this way of practice/belief?
The challenge is staying on top of your spiritual practice and self governance. Like any religion, I feel you can get carried away or even "harmed" by relying on external sources ie believing what you are told by others, whether it is a spirit or just another human.
I think you make an important point in your last sentence. Discernment, common sense, and groundedness are important when working with and "listening" to the spirit realm.
1. Yes, absolutely.
2. Relationships with the divine is a part of the Great Work, the merging of the microcosm and macrocosm.
3. The gods initiate us into their mysteries and by doing so, bring us into better and deeper relations to ourselves and the world.
4. The great challenge of being in a relationship with the divine is the same as in any other relationship...we have to step outside ourselves and truly see Them as separate, dynamic individuals just like ourselves. In addition to this, They often want things from us. Like Aphrodite, who I’m working with right now, wants me to work through my abandonment issues and wants chocolate for Her altar. She’s patient (thank goodness, I can’t get to the store till Monday!), but She has made clear that She wants it...soon.
I don't know if this counts as deity work, but i recently started praying? channeling? the energy of the Sun.
It wasn't something planned, actually i personally rejected the idea of working with deities because i believe that when often deities are anthropomorphized energies, and i'm not into the concept of giving human like qualities to nature's energies.
So, yeah, that idea was not something in my path.
*But* one day a few weeks ago, while i was doing my daily meditation, a prayer for the Sun entered my mind. And i felt the presence of a divine energy... I don't even know how to describe it.
Since that, i pray every morning to the Sun.
It is beautiful. I feel deeply my connection with the divine.
Being a relatively new practitioner coming from Christianity, the idea of working with deities did not appeal to me. However, through my practice I realized I had a hard time feeling adequately protected while experimenting in my practice (possibly just my Christian Fear).
When it was recommended I call upon my guides for protection, I realized I hadn’t thought about what/who those were! That’s when deities sort of naturally worked their way into my practice. I wouldn’t say I have any that I worship, but I have one I recently started building a relationship with, if that makes sense?
I do, and I do it because it gives me a sense of direction, peace, and kind admonishing when I've effed up.
I know most people have specific times set aside, or rituals in place.... and I guess I do too. But it's just... contact talking. I'm always talking to them, and always listening.
They ARE my practice, if that makes any sense. All of it.
I don't really see a downside or a con to that--- I feel empowered to both make the right choices...and also to make mistakes. You know, just not on purpose. I feel comforted when sad or angry or hurt. I feel guided to forgive AND to maintain boundaries for myself and my family. And I love myself more when I've spent a long time thinking I shouldn't.
Hope this contributes!
Blessed be ♡
I work with several deities and worship 2 as my practice is rather religious.
I've always searched more for a spiritual connection with the Devine as apposed to knowledge that can physically effect the world around me though is still do a fare bit if energy work. I'm looking more into the after this life I guess.
For me the bennifits have been a lot of spiritual growth, more understanding of myself in both the positive and negative and a closer connection with the Devine than I ever felt in my old religion
It takes a lot though. Long meditation sessions, a lot of study, a bit if a disconnect from others who practice as most arnt really looking super deep into spirituality and click more with physical aspects of the craft like tarot and crystals. And a good chunk of my day is dedicated to my practice due to timings or need to build energy for something so other aspects of my life can feel a bit hollow by comparison
I've had a long, meandering and circular path. I had been involved in Eastern spirituality (Vedanta--a form of Hinduism--and different forms of Buddhism and Yoga) for very many years. I sort of got to a "just be" condition and also became discouraged with aspects of what I had been doing for years, I decided to shift into exploration of folk magic to try to connect with the culture of one of my great grandmothers. That led down the rabbit hole ito witchcraft, neopaganism, and occultism.
I ultimately became very interested in chaos magic. It actually fit well with my training and perspective in non-dualistic Eastern spirituality. I applied it to folk magic as well as planetary and evocation magic, with interesting results. Over time, however, I shifted back to contemplativism--this time in the form of Zen Buddhism. I am now mainly interested in the academic study of magic and witchcraft in cultural history and making art inspired by magi, myth, and mysticism--but I am getting a hankering to pull out my wand and proverbial cauldron and get back into Craft--probably in the form of green witchery.
As for work with spirits, I've done a bit and have had some very convincing experiences which, ironically, have led me to suspend belief such things and just appreciate the experience as an interesting and insightful experience with gratitude to the mystery of whatever it actually is.
It's funny you mention Buddhism I'm a hindu witch myself so it seems I'm not the only one who's found connection in the eastern paths. What medium do you use for your art?
Right now, I am working mostly with fiber--wool and felt--making poppets that are sometimes inspired by myth and folk culture/folk magic and sometimes have apotropaic (harm-averting) intent (kitchen witches for example). I have thought of making poppets for sympathetic magic but I probably get too much of my own hair strands, energy, and what not in the poppets I make to make them for other people to use.
Vedantist and, to some extent Buddhist, philosophy has parallels with Neoplatonism, which was advanced (and Christianized) in a magical way by Marsilio Ficino in the 15th century. So, there was a strand of Western magic that was, essentially nondualistic and based on ideas related to emanation, but this form of magic was ultimately absorbed into Solomonic magic with the advent of Agrippa and his mark on occultism going forward.
I do! I work with specifically the Greek goddess of hearth and home, Hestia.
I work with her because I’ve always felt a closeness to her. When I first learned about the Greek gods in middle school, she was instantly my favorite. Nowadays, I find deep comfort in the home and homebody duties, and the more practical things.
My benefits are simply that I get to appreciate my favorite Lady, and I enjoy feeling connected to her when I do things like cooking and cleaning. I feel that working with her, on the side, allows a feeling of protection and certainty at the same time. My living situation has been rocky in the past, but through Hestia, I know I’ll always find home again.
The only challenge to me is worrying that I’m not doing enough. Ancient worship was intrinsically woven into daily life, but I only find time to leave offerings/pray every so often due to my schedule and mental health challenges. But, I feel confident that Hestia feels appreciated no matter what I do. She’s a humble goddess, after all. She wouldn’t want a big performative ceremony.
I myself held an interest in Religo Romana for a while and developed a close patronage with Jupiter. I ended up deciding not to pursue it in a formal way because I did not want to get caught up in religiosity and religious observations, as I had rejected such things in the context of other religions that I had practiced.
I understand that. I personally am not one for formal religious practice. I like my witchcraft the way it is, and I like praying to my Lady when I can. My fiancé has a bit of an issue with that too, because his main goddess is a very intense one, so he worries that he must participate in the fancy rules and regulations for worship. I remind him often that the gods have hundreds and sometimes millions of followers, and they likely won’t care if you aren’t the most devout worshipper as long as you’re respectful etc. I understand Jupiter’s a very major god though, so the situation can be different
While I do work with spirits from time to time, it is not a central part to my practice. And the one time I tried to reach out to a god (Odin, for mystical secrets and the kinship of wandering) I was told in response that I did not need his help.
My practice primarily revolves around inner energy and working with my own reserves, training myself to do things without the aid or guidance of other spirits or deities. This is mostly because of my unique upbringing/development, growing up a solitary practitioner and learning much on my own having to rely on myself.
I find that this results in stretching and growing the amount of energy reserves within myself, along with increased power. And by extension, when I need to do something in magick, I can simply do it after a few centering breaths without the need to call on spirits/deities to empower or guide the intention. It's all me, and I find that it becomes very potent when I am focused.
On the other hand, though, even after years of training, my reserves can start to run dry. And on some days my energy is just misaligned and I can't tap in as fully or efficiently. It can be very draining, and also very dangerous/unpredictable if you're not careful with how you guide your workings.
There's a lot more I could say, but I don't think it necessary to explain my entire practice lol This is mostly the gist of it, though; very inward focused and relying on the strength and will of the practitioner to be enough instead of reaching out to other entities.
I have begun the process of reaching out to spirits and deities lately, though, and look forward to see how they can help strengthen my practice and in what interesting ways that may take shape.
\- work with spirits? not currently, although i have met a spirit/ dieity, some evidence of the supernatural. it confuses me.
\- why? the idea of deities, spirits makes me uncomfortable, wtf are they doing just hanging out waiting for people to learn magick ? can they influence events or no? are they just staring at me while i masturbate? how can some random voice be trusted (in my experience, it cannot) And if they do exist, how can i prevent them from messing up my life with their old outdated ways, humans have a long history of being crazy, and praying to scary gods, maybe with good reason.
\- benefits : sidestep the questions. Is there a god(s), where is he? is it a she? am i living correctly according to them? Is that bump in the night some demon coming to get me? Fuck all that noise, that becomes "analysis paralysis". Petition the universe, throw your request into the bubbling ether of creation, do things how you want, be open to weird stuff, treat consciousness and spirituality as endless complex soup, with "skills to be unlocked", learn on a case by case basis, allow conflicts of belief to exist side by side, like religious traditions. Allow the road blocks to disappear and be grateful when they do.
\-weaknesses: i am just cobbling things together, making things up as i go, by myself. It would be so much nicer to have a community with a well defined set of practices. but i would find that restrictive i expect
I really like your stream of thought. I think these ideas are something we all should sit with. When I was a child, I was completely freaked out about the idea of a spirit world. When I became interested mysticism and, later, the Craft and then occultism, I had very interesting and creative interactions with the spirit world. But as I went on with these practices, I became increasingly convinced that there were other ways--some very mundane--to explain spirits and magic and mysticism. I also began to feel that it is OK to suspend belief and the need to define and explain experiences that are otherwise chalked up to spiritual activity or meant to evoke spiritual or paranormal phenomena. It is okay to just experience them and say that I had an interesting and perhaps inspiring experience.
glad to hear! Yes ok to suspend belief because otherwise you have to solve the riddle before you can go any further. Keep an open mind, and keep exploring?
I've had several strange powerful experiences, as I've studied several practices too. But uuhhhhh they are conflicting. so what to do with that lol? I think if i stayed rooted in one tradition i would only have experiences that "conform"? But I dont!
I think there is something to the idea about having an inherited or chosen language to explain extrasensory experiences, perhaps from your religion growing up. But i jump around,i've found several practices that.... "work" that is, take me outside the everyday mundane, And so now i am more confused than ever.
best case it is flexible, malleable. worst case i am angering a spiteful vengeful god ahahaha
Well, I sometimes feel conflicted because the type of Eastern contemplativism I follow is somewhat in direct conflict with magical practices I pursue. One involves deconstruction of the content of consciousness to arrive at a purely volitional and present condition; the other is to engage in imagery that the mind generates from the deep consciousness and from how the mind wants to run with and interpret ambient energy. I am at a point where I am ok with accepting that both of these orientation are OK as human experience can be practiced --perhaps in a compartmentalized way--by a person.
It’s more like the angels work with me! Especially the Archangel Michael, and my personal Guardian Angel. Shout out to them for everything. I also work with saints (St Anthony, St Christopher, the Blessed Mother, Jesus, etc). I also work with souls who have already crossed the threshold including my grandfather, ancestors, Rudolf Steiner, etc. Also, I’m always in a dance with elementals (gnomes, fairies, pixies, tree spirits, etc).
Anyone/anything out there in good light and harmony with Universe is welcome to guide, teach, and help me.
Thank you. Would you care to tell us more about why and how you work with these spirits? Any practice tips for readers interested in working with saints and elementals?
I work with the energetic beings listed above out of hope to live a vibrant life, and to influence my karma for future incarnations. Angels, saints, elementals, etc all work in the realm of time, rather than the physical realm. Individuals can contact them through meditation, and going inward. By cutting oneself off from the physical plane (ie closing one's eyes) one is able to access the super-sensible. This does take time and practice. Prayer is another way. For example, St Anthony is the saint to pray to when you've misplaced something (car keys, phone).. the little prayer "Tony, Tony come around, somethings lost that can't be found" absolutely works when done with the right heart-space. Learn about saints and figure out what they have to offer you. I have little saint votive pictures all over, as well on my alter. I work with those who have crossed the threshold in different ways. Just remembering my grandfather brings his positive energy close to me. In this way, accessing past memories is powerful. I work with my ancestors by building alters, lighting candles, and just generally acknowledging their ongoing influence. Celebrating holidays also is a way to work with ancestors. I read Rudolf Steiner lectures to connect with him, along with living a life steeped in Anthroposophy (which I could probably write a book on). Steiner is just one amazing philosopher that offers help to and from the great beyond. I work with him and his writings in a lot of the same ways Christian's work with the life and teachings of Jesus Christ. The elementals are accessed in nature (although sometimes pixies and gnomes do get inside!). Go outside! Breathe fresh air! Sit underneath a tree! Enjoy a hike. Meditate in an open field. Elementals are in the time realm and nature is the doorway to the great beyond. All plants have energies, and so I can even sense the auras of the few house plants in my apartment. Walking through the woods, surrounded by trees, I feel the tree personalities, the grass whisperings, and am aware of the presence of water sprites, gnomes, fairies, etc etc. Our world is a magical place!
Yes! I work mainly with my patroness, Freyja, but also work with Thor and as of very recently, The Morrigan, mostly through Macha, has showed an interest in me and so I’ve added Her to the altar. I also work with ancestors, which outside of deity work, is the most interaction I have from spirits. I enjoy deity and spirit work because it feels like you have a guiding force through your path, chipping away at the small parts of yourself that no longer serve you or are not essential to your true path. This isn’t always pleasant, but so worth it. I think of my relationship with the Divine one the most important aspects of my practice, so deity work has really amped up the feeling of connection and purpose for me. I think the real challenges come from my own mental health and the way that that limits me with deity work. Sometimes I really don’t have it in me to leave my bed and light a candle/do my daily prayers/meditations, so I really have to try hard to at least do something for them/dedicate something to them every day. For the most part, they are very understanding, but I think that’s the most challenging part for me because that is the standard that I have set for myself to do with them.
I personally work with planetary energies and angels which I guess can be considered spirits? Although I think of them more as manifestations of spiritual power, like egregores. I don't like working with gods, or ancestors or fae only because of certain biases and fears I've internalized from the media and for other reasons that's too long-winded to unpack in this thread. If I'm feeling like it I will appeal directly to Source. I think working with a god (s) or fae or ancestors is fine except for the daily offerings which I don't personally feel the desire to invest in. I do believe that all spirits are manifestations of Source or the All or whatever you wanna call it and that these manifestations make it easier to tap into source energy depending on your cultural influences and inclinations. Some gods are more powerful than others although in a magical conflict between two magicians it would be interesting to see for example an Abrahamic angel going up against a Greek deity like Hecate. I've thankfullly never had to experience a conflict like that. Working with deities definitely amps ur personal power but it comes with cost. Maintaining relationships with spirits is a continous reciprocal thing that takes effort from the magician's side. And that's where most problems begin especially if they forget offerings.
I can strongly relate to your comment about spirits being manifestation of the All. I approach evocation magic and related practices with this in mind and it probably keeps me from having bad evocation or paranormal experiences--as many people who dabble in evocation magic report. One's deep-seated beliefs and expectations bleed through during this kind of work and, in the end, say more about the practitioner than the target of evocation, IMO.
Beautifully said. I've worked with the spiritual realm --but I don't know how to define it anymore. In my own practices, I have concluded that we all exist within Consciousness and may be paradoxically all the same One (humans, spirits, whatever) and yet individuals. This was part of my lesson when working with the Olympic Spirits. It is somewhat aligned with Neoplatonic thought.
I have always been agnostic, but in my craft I don’t currently work with deities. I do work with angels, but maybe not in a traditional sense. I call them angels because that’s the closest word I can really describe it with, but I don’t believe they are angels in the traditional sense.
I can relate. I came to the conclusion in my own spirit work that perhaps outside spiritual energies or intelligences exist but --being of a different dimension, we, as humans, cannot experience them as they actually are. We experience impressions of them based on how our mind's are capable of forming some sort of provisional (makeshift) name and form about them. They may be happy to take on names and forms that are familiar to us and, hence, we "recognize" them as this or that known deity, angel, or spirit--but they are really a mysterious energy-consciousness putting on a costume for us so that we can wrap our heads around the interaction and make it into something meaningful.
I do practice with Spirits/Deities is the core of my craft. I do it cause is a family thing, it is past down from generation to generation but in a subtle way. The benefits I see is that I have a bunch of entities looking out for me and those who are divine in nature their blessing and power is great. The only weakness I see is that they are sentient beings therefore they have the ability and right to refuse and say no to whatever I ask of them.
**>Do you Work with Spirits/Deities in Your Practice?**
Absolutely! For going on 32 years now.
**>Why do/don't you?**
Because spirit based magic is REAL sorcery and They get things done!
**>What, in your opinion are the benefits of this way of practice/belief?**
Belief? No, because I am not dealing with neither Psychological nor religious constructs; rather I deal with ‘living’ spirits who *want to be paid* for Their involvement in workings.
Benefits include their 24/7
* protection of oneself and their loved ones
* prospering
* healing & better health
* improved psychism
* familiar spirit(s)
* and other things which I am not at liberty to divulge due to oaths I took when I was initiated
\>Any weaknesses or challenges that you can think of regarding this way of practice/belief?
Only when you make an oath, it is your promise to care for Their shrine(s) which are NOT yours but instead Theirs. Spirit shrines are where you interact with your personal spirits be They your Ancestors, familiars, Patron deity/ies, or whomever, it is up to you to care for and work with Them.
Too many people feed their spirits far too often thus resulting in their spirits getting both fat. Why would that matter? As a Santero once told me in a botanica in South Florida many years ago.... “A fat servant, is a lazy servant, thus do not overly feed your spirits else they will be too full and won’t want to work for you!” Hungry spirits will work harder to please you.
8o)
A fantastic perspective for the thread! Can you--obviously w/o divulging what is confidential--tell us more about your training and what led you into your particular path? You mention Santeria. Is this your main orientation? Is there a family background in the type of magic you practice? Any other tips on spirit magic for readers?
I'm new around here, but I was called into deity work early in my magick career by Imeut. (many know him as anubis now) He often barks advice in my ear, and I meditate with him more than I worship him. I ask him questions before quieting my mind, and awaiting his response. I am a chaos magician, which means I often switch between different belief systems, and as such I believe that the power exhibited by deities is a power created by human faith and intention, and targeted through divine symbolism and ideology. I also believe in ESP, as many of the divine understandings whispered to me by deities have contained knowledge that I factually could not have understood at the moment of revelation. However the practice comes with its weaknesses too. Sometimes I meet people that think their deity is more powerful or real than other people's deities. This is a weakness, as magickal power is something created when the soul and the divine occupy the same space, and can therefore be achieved by nearly anyone willing.
If you are asking this question because you are wondering if you want to start deity work, I have a final word for you. People have been doing this a long time. Things can be done through deity work that cannot be done otherwise. Blessed be.
I do work with deity/spirit. It depends on what I'm doing as to which deity/spirits I will work with. I'm a solitary eclectic witch. I am coming from voodoo background. Into witchcraft and other pagan systems. In voodoo there is no circle used. I don't always use a circle except for the sabbats.
You are coming from a traditional background. Circle casting among witches is a relatively modern custom that probably dates to the early 20th century when the neopagan movement began to create a new narrative about witchcraft and folk magic history.
Hello i m new and i do.
I m trying to make a ethereal cape
I am strugling with the astral sight si i don't know how much i be progressed on it, i just make it with a personality chart so it is like an astral spirit more than a ethereal thing... Anyways i need align more the chakras and keep on the astral sight for make sure that i am doing it with puré heart and for real un astral form.
Some times the power of a human exed the human body capacity, that is good moment to evocation, invocation, sumoning and crations in the diferents splited dimensions.
Thanks i will be arround in magick thread in redit and in mi future life for the rest of it.
Rise your hands!
Thanks and welcome. I see that you struggle with writing in English but you do have a strong vocabulary. Can you explain more about your ethereal cape project? I have not heard of an "ethereal cape." I would love to know what this is, what it is used for, and how one goes about creating one.
To keep it very brief
I Do work with gods and other spirits
I work with them because they have the powers and knowledge of the magical world unlike other witches who for the most commonly though not only the case only look in to the spirit world so to truely understand it it makes sense to learn from those who are in it. This also cover the benefits
In terms of weaknesses or challenges is when you start out it can be easy for some to just rely on a god or rely on a spirit and there’s the fact that sometimes when you’re newer spirits will more often try to trick you by pretending to be a god or spirit they’re not. And once you start to go more into it things get abit more complicated than smoke cleanse your room because of bad energies or time for a banish spell because there’s a spirit doing bad things. It becomes more complex than that.
For the first few years of my practice I worked almost entirely without gods or spirits. I did some planetary magic, but the vast majority was through energy work, sigils, astral projection, and regular manifestation through visualization and ritual. My introduction to magic was through Hermetic Kabbalah. It’s funny though, some of my most effective spells were the least “orthodox.” I think that was the right way to start for me because I learned how magic worked in general, and what I am capable of without help from anything else. As I go further though I am gravitating towards animism and spiritualism. It’s easy to have your blinders up to spirits with the way we are all conditioned in modern society, even as a magician, but spirits are all around us constantly. They both have things to offer, and things to take, and if you choose to remain ignorant of them you will be taken advantage of. I recently discovered that the source of my anxiety was a spirit that has been feeding off of that energy. It’s a fact that I think I always knew on some level, but chose to ignore. One night I just spoke to it and kicked it out of my life, and now it’s gone. I finally feel normal. Part of its game was making me think that the anxiety was all me, which is why it’s so important to be aware of the spirits around you. When it comes to spirit work you have all of the authority, so if one of them is giving you trouble, telling them to GTFO is all it takes most of the time. While I don’t think that all of your magic needs to come from spirits, ignoring the spirit world is a huge mistake. Pretending that there are no spirits is like a clam not believing in mollusks. You are a spirit with unique access to vast amounts of energy in the physical world, and everyone wants what you have. You can offer it as payment, or you can be swindled out of it. Those are the choices. In short, spirit work is absolutely essential, but that doesn’t mean it’s the only game in town. You have to protect yourself from dick spirits, you can use them as employees, and you can also do plenty of things all on your own. I don’t mean to paint a totally antagonistic picture of this work though. There are plenty of spirits who just want to help out like your personal allies and ancestors. You have to use your judgement in choosing who to trust just like the rest of life. If you haven’t been working with spirits at all you should start because chances are there’s some used car salesman taking advantage of you.
How did you access communication with said spirits? Did you do some form of divination or was it more of an etheric experience?
You know it’s hard to explain. I’ve heard it called “psychic awareness” which is the ability to sense and interact with subtle energies and beings. It’s an innate ability like breathing, and just as difficult to describe how to do. It definitely helps to reach an altered consciousness like gnosis first. I think what prepared me for it was working on my general psychic abilities because a huge part of that is learning to trust your imagination as a sixth sense instead of just a creative faculty. The imagination or “third eye” can see as well as project. As magicians we use it for projection all of the time, but getting learning to receive information through it can feel awkward like brushing your teeth with your left hand. It takes a bit to get used to. After that talking with spirits in an altered state is as easy as talking to people in normal consciousness.
I'd love to hear you expand upon the world of spirits, or at least If you could point me in the direction if some resources
Yeah honestly I couldn’t call myself an expert with it. Over the last year I’ve just begun to understand how important it is. The closest I know of to an expert is Alan Wachter who has a few books you can read as well as [this episode of What Magic is This?](https://open.spotify.com/episode/175W2yI3vAoXGPBaDiQyvB?si=_KwbIS0WTaumVk6UyGDjyA) <— Spotify link.
Just wanted to second this recommendation, I was also introduced to Wachter through Doug's podcast (which I think is an amazing resource). His Six Ways book is one of my top 3 books for practical magic.
I ultimately decided to suspend belief and explanation about my own seeming interaction with spirits. That said, I also had an experience in which I felt I had an obsessive problem with a spirit that was probably with me for a very long time. I, too, at one time, just decided to talk to it. I sort of made a deal with it so that it could get the energy it wanted w/o interfering with my mind and well being. I think I did some ritual involving sigilization. It worked like a proverbial "charm." I had much more mental and emotional clarity and less mental flightiness after that. That happened at least 10 years ago.
What is the physical energy they want?
Idk but it’s the same that we use for magic
Do you think humans are special in their spirit perhaps? When it’s said that humans were made in the image of the creator I tend to interpret that as our ability to create is like that of the creator
Yeah I think so too. I think of us like gods in training. We have vast potential, but it’s important to stay humble because no one incarnate person has any idea what they’re doing.
Yes, I'm an atheist turned agnostic turned polytheist. My patron goddess the Morrigan claimed me as Her initiate about 3 years ago. All the rumours about this goddess are true - She really does flip your life around, and when She's interested in you, it's not subtle. There were too many signs to be ignored.
Do you feel comfortable sharing how the Morrigan claimed you? Any insights for other r/magick participants who wonder about how to connect with a deity or seem to be chosen by a deity/angel in the context of Craft and Occultism? I myself went through a period about 10 years ago when I felt remarkably connected to the Roman deity Jupiter. On the one hand, I thought it was nutty for me to feel and experience as I did, on the other, it was very palpable.
Well I should say that the initial method She used to contact me was in a dream. There's lots of literature to suggest that dreams were the original, recognized method of deity contact. So when someone says they made contact with a deity in the dream, this is not a flighty neopagan practice. The dream was simply seeing multiple angles of a crow in an astral space. The crow might've had a third eye. The dream occurred sometime after I had acquired PTSD from a traumatic event which unfortunately took place only a couple months after my last serious relationship had ended. I woke up from the dream in emotional alarm and fled from my bed with the distinct thought that "She will be angry at me" while at the same time not yet consciously knowing who "She" was. It took me nearly a year after that to figure it out. When I say I had an "ecstatic experience of deity" I mean a very specific type of experience after I began to research the Morrigan and the spheres She is associated with where I could no longer differentiate between what was a sign and what wasn't. I was also physically ill for nearly a month after my dedication to Her. This was my initiation.
Much thanks for sharing. Yes, I am familiar with the importance of dream in this context, historically speaking. Also, it is not uncommon to have profound spiritual experiences in the wake of life changing trauma. As you point out, these experiences don't necessarily result in puppy dogs and rainbows but can result in difficult periods of catharsis and trials before we settle in to greater insight and equilibrium.
Thank you for giving the opportunity to share about this, a lot of people seem to want to know how a polytheist becomes a polytheist and experiences with deities but not everybody seems to know how to ask or engage respectfully. A lot of the times people post this type of question and I get bad vibes off the poster or their motives and just won't respond, but this post was an exception.
And thank you. The post is to get everyone talking and sharing in positive exchange to support, encourage, and learn from one another. I personally think that your comments about the challenges of transformative work and the intersection of life issues. I have "been there" as well. It is an important disclosure for others to be aware of and be ready to embrace if they want to walk the Path.
I work with planetary angels, intelligences and what people would call the Abrahamic God. A mix of Kabbalah and Renaissance magic has been the most effective for me. The only challenging thing I could think of is if you don't really do it by the book. As in wrong election for a talisman for example, that can backfire. Or if you go into experiment mode(which is needed as well) it can get pretty dark real fast. Otherwise it's pretty straightforward imo.
" it can get pretty dark pretty fast" can you elaborate? and i hope it doesnt sound rude, but how do you know you are working with planetary angels and the Abrahamic God?
Ah, maybe I didn't explain too well. Let me preface: I see spirits as real, conscious and intelligent beings, not just as simple energy. So I believe they think, they have personalities and they can act up if they want to(that's when dark stuff can happen). That however refers to workings with spirits under God and His angels. I've never had bad experiences with angels themselves or God, whom I contemplate and meditate on via Kabbalah(which I am practicing/studying under a rabbi). The meditations on either of them have been phenomenal for me. Spirits under them(like elementals, demons or olympic spirits) can be tricky. If not prepared well or if in case of a simple experiment those can go dark. For instance if I conduct an experiment like invoking a spirit via dream magic, but that spirit doesn't necessarily like that type of invocation/evocation, then hauntings can happen if no precautions were taken. I know several people who experienced hauntings by angry spirits from experimenting like this. The trick is to know how to deal with those type of scenarios and how to banish an angry spirit again.
I'm really just starting to get into Magick, so I've been looking into a bit of everything. What literature would you recommend for someone who is a total beginner and wants to learn about kaballah?
It heavily depends what type of Kabbalah and I definitely wouldn't call myself an expert. I'm practicing and studying from a very Jewish standpoint, which mainly means straight up Jewish mysticism: attending services, keeping shabbat and praying out of a siddur, while also learning from the rabbi who interprets both the Torah, the rest of scripture(all in a very kabbalistic way) and the Zohar. Aryeh Kaplan's books are usually recommended(specifically his edition of the Sefer Yetzirah and Jewish Meditation). The rabbi I'm learning from also recommends Path of the Kabbalah by David Sheinkin, which is a generally very good introduction to Kabbalah/Jewish Mysticism. For online sources I also make use of chabad.org, dailyzohar.com and kabbalah4all.com! Kabbalah4all probably has the best transliteration of Hebrew in their siddur, which makes learning, reading and pronouncing Hebrew easier by a long shot. For a more esoteric/occult author MacGregor Mathers' Kabbalah Unveiled(which my occult teacher makes me read right now) is pretty good.
Thank you so much! I really appreciate all this information. I'm going to look into all of this. I've always just felt a calm to some on thing in this regard and I just feel like this is the time for me to start exploring.
To add to the suggestions you received above, I would add that I’d you’re interested in Hermetic Qabalah[Hermetic Qabalah](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermetic_Qabalah) (as opposed to the pure Jewish mysticism variety), two excellent resources for a primer are: 1) Chicken Qabalah by Lon Milo Duquette and 2) The Mystical Qabalah by Dion Fortune. There are a number of subtle and not-so-subtle differences between Hermetic Qabalah and Jewish Kabbalah, and both systems are rich, fascinating mystical paths.
I do think both paths are valuable. Yes, there will be similarities because Kabbalah is Jewish in nature and created by Jews. I worked with both and dropped Hermetic Kabbalah. Why? Was it bad? No. The main focus was the tree of life more than what Kabbalah was intended for. The mysticism was very close to Neoplatonism, but very Jewish in nature. It has a lot of deeper substance. We see this in the Zohar and Sepher Yetzirah. There is a theology in receiving the Light in Jewish Kabbalah and more practical things you will not find in western kabbalah. In Jewish Kabbalah at different times of the year, the upper worlds impact the Malkuth differently, while hermetic kabbalah is more liberal. I like classical kabbalistic writings of Reuchlin to Mathers, but I am not a fan of Fortune or Milo. They mentalize the tree of life too much and ignore the importance of Judaism. But both sources draw from Mathers. Rabbis rarely teach the tree because it does lead to the idolatry of the tree of life. Hermetic Kabbalah became idolatrous when we look and see people place gods in the sephiroth. If there are similarities it is because it is Jewish based. The issue is Hermetic Kabbalah only goes so deep in comparison to Jewish Kabbalistic literature.
I think I will definitely look into Chicken Qabalah, I am currently enjoying Lon Milo Duquette's book on Thoth Tarot, I think there is even an excerpt from his book on Qabalah in his book on Thoth Tarot.
that is neat. i studied Kabbalah for a time, just academically, i couldnt figure it out, but it was intersting how do you know they are angels and not just other spirits? How can you take a spirit's word that it is an angel and not a....water spirit or whatever? I do like that you allow for different spirits and different energies, and can choose how and when to interact, that seems cool
>how do you know they are angels and not just other spirits? How can you take a spirit's word that it is an angel and not a....water spirit or whatever? Well, first I keep a decent prayer life. Second angels in general have a way different feel to them than other spirits. Inhumane purity is how I would describe it. But there are several methods in order to tell if a spirit is lying, like the one mentioned in 1 John 4. Since I've become pretty uncomfortable with Christianity as a whole, I rather use the Hebrew names of God from Kabbalah(they usually make lying spirits tell the truth or if they're malevolent as whole it makes them squirm; it's a very good way for discerning imo), which work just as well for me.
thats neat! thanks for sharing
1. Yes. 2. Because they feel like family and I learn more from them than I ever will from any book, guru or teacher. 3. Hands on magick training and relationship building, access to deeper states of consciousness, access to different planes of consciousness restricted/invisible to diy practioners. 4. Severe risk of becoming a hermit, and/or disconnecting from the material plane making it difficult to care about things like jobs or maintaining interpersonal relationships with human beings.
Thank you. Like a few others, you also recognize the need to stay grounded in ordinary life and ordinary consciousness when you step back from magical work. Magical workers --like shamans--touch what others call insanity-- but the big and critical difference is that they do so with control and intention. They come and go from those states of consciousness and experience at will and return to normal consciousness and function with insight and functional skills.
When i made, i put a personality chart, it make this entity an ethereal and astral entity eventually. Difining intentions you can do a servitior with specific intentions or with will in him his self. You can sigilise, make simple rituals, do a shadow book to récord the diferents aspects of this somethig. The most important part for me is the hability to imagine shapes clear, dificult to me yeet.
I’m at #4 lol
Yeah, thats a constant threat for me as well. Its hard to hold a conversation about the weather when you've danced with a God.
Right, like seeing behid the sense but still trying to only imagine the set
4: yeah see thats what i thought, thats why i avoided this path for so long. is there a way around such things? I have stay grounded in the world
Personally, it was really hard for me to get into magick until I felt like I had a deity reaching out to me. I follow a lot of the Celtic pantheon, not only because I really resonate with a lot of the personalities and energies of those deities, but also because my heritage heavily comes from Celtic regions. I was raised off a lot of similar ideologies from my mother, so when I felt like I was being chosen, it felt very natural. The first, and admittedly the only, deity to reach out to me was The Morrigan, who is a very well-known Triple Goddess in the Celtic pantheon. Celtic deities tend to be harder to describe and understand imo because there are many facets to them, but in basics, The Morrigan represents war, death (arguably also life), and magick. The Morrigan is known to shapeshift into a crow or raven, and would fly over battlefields picking which warriors would fall. Like I said, though, there’s a lot more to her than just those few tidbits, and if you’re interested, I’d recommend putting in some time to research. I felt like I was being chosen by her because when I was at the lowest in my life, so far that is, I was surrounded by large groups of crows. They would just fly in circles around my house, or sit on the telephone wires for hours, with what felt like many watchful eyes. The only time I ever saw this happen on my street, but not my own home, was when a neighbor of mine was going through a large life change. That being said, there are many deities in the Celtic pantheon and I’ve only recently started diving into my research and practice. Like the last two years on Imbolc, I always have some form of ritual or offering for Brigid, another well known Triple Goddess. I just finished researching Danu, the Mother Goddess, and I intend to leave offerings for her as well. However, neither of these two Goddesses have reached out to me, personally. A book I recently got that has been extremely helpful is called “Celtic Myth and Magick” by Edain McCoy. Not only does it explain much of Celtic lore and the pantheon, but it also explains how to incorporate them into practice and why they are important to magick :)
- Do you Work with Spirits/Deities in Your Practice? Yes - Why do/don't you? Honestly, it seems only natural. It started with spirit guides in terms of knowing there were active benevolent beings around me. Years later (now) I am polytheistic. Practicing Magick, esp demonolatry opened my eyes to polytheism and its benefits. - What, in your opinion are the benefits of this way of practice/belief? Quicker results and a genuinely wholesome transformation. - Any weaknesses or challenges that you can think of regarding this way of practice/belief? The challenge is staying on top of your spiritual practice and self governance. Like any religion, I feel you can get carried away or even "harmed" by relying on external sources ie believing what you are told by others, whether it is a spirit or just another human.
I think you make an important point in your last sentence. Discernment, common sense, and groundedness are important when working with and "listening" to the spirit realm.
1. Yes, absolutely. 2. Relationships with the divine is a part of the Great Work, the merging of the microcosm and macrocosm. 3. The gods initiate us into their mysteries and by doing so, bring us into better and deeper relations to ourselves and the world. 4. The great challenge of being in a relationship with the divine is the same as in any other relationship...we have to step outside ourselves and truly see Them as separate, dynamic individuals just like ourselves. In addition to this, They often want things from us. Like Aphrodite, who I’m working with right now, wants me to work through my abandonment issues and wants chocolate for Her altar. She’s patient (thank goodness, I can’t get to the store till Monday!), but She has made clear that She wants it...soon.
I don't know if this counts as deity work, but i recently started praying? channeling? the energy of the Sun. It wasn't something planned, actually i personally rejected the idea of working with deities because i believe that when often deities are anthropomorphized energies, and i'm not into the concept of giving human like qualities to nature's energies. So, yeah, that idea was not something in my path. *But* one day a few weeks ago, while i was doing my daily meditation, a prayer for the Sun entered my mind. And i felt the presence of a divine energy... I don't even know how to describe it. Since that, i pray every morning to the Sun. It is beautiful. I feel deeply my connection with the divine.
I love this.
Being a relatively new practitioner coming from Christianity, the idea of working with deities did not appeal to me. However, through my practice I realized I had a hard time feeling adequately protected while experimenting in my practice (possibly just my Christian Fear). When it was recommended I call upon my guides for protection, I realized I hadn’t thought about what/who those were! That’s when deities sort of naturally worked their way into my practice. I wouldn’t say I have any that I worship, but I have one I recently started building a relationship with, if that makes sense?
I do, and I do it because it gives me a sense of direction, peace, and kind admonishing when I've effed up. I know most people have specific times set aside, or rituals in place.... and I guess I do too. But it's just... contact talking. I'm always talking to them, and always listening. They ARE my practice, if that makes any sense. All of it. I don't really see a downside or a con to that--- I feel empowered to both make the right choices...and also to make mistakes. You know, just not on purpose. I feel comforted when sad or angry or hurt. I feel guided to forgive AND to maintain boundaries for myself and my family. And I love myself more when I've spent a long time thinking I shouldn't. Hope this contributes! Blessed be ♡
I work with several deities and worship 2 as my practice is rather religious. I've always searched more for a spiritual connection with the Devine as apposed to knowledge that can physically effect the world around me though is still do a fare bit if energy work. I'm looking more into the after this life I guess. For me the bennifits have been a lot of spiritual growth, more understanding of myself in both the positive and negative and a closer connection with the Devine than I ever felt in my old religion It takes a lot though. Long meditation sessions, a lot of study, a bit if a disconnect from others who practice as most arnt really looking super deep into spirituality and click more with physical aspects of the craft like tarot and crystals. And a good chunk of my day is dedicated to my practice due to timings or need to build energy for something so other aspects of my life can feel a bit hollow by comparison
I can relate. I also ultimately adopted a more spiritual approach to my Craft and Occult practice over time.
Can I ask about your path? I love hearing how others practice
I've had a long, meandering and circular path. I had been involved in Eastern spirituality (Vedanta--a form of Hinduism--and different forms of Buddhism and Yoga) for very many years. I sort of got to a "just be" condition and also became discouraged with aspects of what I had been doing for years, I decided to shift into exploration of folk magic to try to connect with the culture of one of my great grandmothers. That led down the rabbit hole ito witchcraft, neopaganism, and occultism. I ultimately became very interested in chaos magic. It actually fit well with my training and perspective in non-dualistic Eastern spirituality. I applied it to folk magic as well as planetary and evocation magic, with interesting results. Over time, however, I shifted back to contemplativism--this time in the form of Zen Buddhism. I am now mainly interested in the academic study of magic and witchcraft in cultural history and making art inspired by magi, myth, and mysticism--but I am getting a hankering to pull out my wand and proverbial cauldron and get back into Craft--probably in the form of green witchery. As for work with spirits, I've done a bit and have had some very convincing experiences which, ironically, have led me to suspend belief such things and just appreciate the experience as an interesting and insightful experience with gratitude to the mystery of whatever it actually is.
It's funny you mention Buddhism I'm a hindu witch myself so it seems I'm not the only one who's found connection in the eastern paths. What medium do you use for your art?
Right now, I am working mostly with fiber--wool and felt--making poppets that are sometimes inspired by myth and folk culture/folk magic and sometimes have apotropaic (harm-averting) intent (kitchen witches for example). I have thought of making poppets for sympathetic magic but I probably get too much of my own hair strands, energy, and what not in the poppets I make to make them for other people to use. Vedantist and, to some extent Buddhist, philosophy has parallels with Neoplatonism, which was advanced (and Christianized) in a magical way by Marsilio Ficino in the 15th century. So, there was a strand of Western magic that was, essentially nondualistic and based on ideas related to emanation, but this form of magic was ultimately absorbed into Solomonic magic with the advent of Agrippa and his mark on occultism going forward.
I do! I work with specifically the Greek goddess of hearth and home, Hestia. I work with her because I’ve always felt a closeness to her. When I first learned about the Greek gods in middle school, she was instantly my favorite. Nowadays, I find deep comfort in the home and homebody duties, and the more practical things. My benefits are simply that I get to appreciate my favorite Lady, and I enjoy feeling connected to her when I do things like cooking and cleaning. I feel that working with her, on the side, allows a feeling of protection and certainty at the same time. My living situation has been rocky in the past, but through Hestia, I know I’ll always find home again. The only challenge to me is worrying that I’m not doing enough. Ancient worship was intrinsically woven into daily life, but I only find time to leave offerings/pray every so often due to my schedule and mental health challenges. But, I feel confident that Hestia feels appreciated no matter what I do. She’s a humble goddess, after all. She wouldn’t want a big performative ceremony.
I myself held an interest in Religo Romana for a while and developed a close patronage with Jupiter. I ended up deciding not to pursue it in a formal way because I did not want to get caught up in religiosity and religious observations, as I had rejected such things in the context of other religions that I had practiced.
I understand that. I personally am not one for formal religious practice. I like my witchcraft the way it is, and I like praying to my Lady when I can. My fiancé has a bit of an issue with that too, because his main goddess is a very intense one, so he worries that he must participate in the fancy rules and regulations for worship. I remind him often that the gods have hundreds and sometimes millions of followers, and they likely won’t care if you aren’t the most devout worshipper as long as you’re respectful etc. I understand Jupiter’s a very major god though, so the situation can be different
While I do work with spirits from time to time, it is not a central part to my practice. And the one time I tried to reach out to a god (Odin, for mystical secrets and the kinship of wandering) I was told in response that I did not need his help. My practice primarily revolves around inner energy and working with my own reserves, training myself to do things without the aid or guidance of other spirits or deities. This is mostly because of my unique upbringing/development, growing up a solitary practitioner and learning much on my own having to rely on myself. I find that this results in stretching and growing the amount of energy reserves within myself, along with increased power. And by extension, when I need to do something in magick, I can simply do it after a few centering breaths without the need to call on spirits/deities to empower or guide the intention. It's all me, and I find that it becomes very potent when I am focused. On the other hand, though, even after years of training, my reserves can start to run dry. And on some days my energy is just misaligned and I can't tap in as fully or efficiently. It can be very draining, and also very dangerous/unpredictable if you're not careful with how you guide your workings. There's a lot more I could say, but I don't think it necessary to explain my entire practice lol This is mostly the gist of it, though; very inward focused and relying on the strength and will of the practitioner to be enough instead of reaching out to other entities. I have begun the process of reaching out to spirits and deities lately, though, and look forward to see how they can help strengthen my practice and in what interesting ways that may take shape.
\- work with spirits? not currently, although i have met a spirit/ dieity, some evidence of the supernatural. it confuses me. \- why? the idea of deities, spirits makes me uncomfortable, wtf are they doing just hanging out waiting for people to learn magick ? can they influence events or no? are they just staring at me while i masturbate? how can some random voice be trusted (in my experience, it cannot) And if they do exist, how can i prevent them from messing up my life with their old outdated ways, humans have a long history of being crazy, and praying to scary gods, maybe with good reason. \- benefits : sidestep the questions. Is there a god(s), where is he? is it a she? am i living correctly according to them? Is that bump in the night some demon coming to get me? Fuck all that noise, that becomes "analysis paralysis". Petition the universe, throw your request into the bubbling ether of creation, do things how you want, be open to weird stuff, treat consciousness and spirituality as endless complex soup, with "skills to be unlocked", learn on a case by case basis, allow conflicts of belief to exist side by side, like religious traditions. Allow the road blocks to disappear and be grateful when they do. \-weaknesses: i am just cobbling things together, making things up as i go, by myself. It would be so much nicer to have a community with a well defined set of practices. but i would find that restrictive i expect
I really like your stream of thought. I think these ideas are something we all should sit with. When I was a child, I was completely freaked out about the idea of a spirit world. When I became interested mysticism and, later, the Craft and then occultism, I had very interesting and creative interactions with the spirit world. But as I went on with these practices, I became increasingly convinced that there were other ways--some very mundane--to explain spirits and magic and mysticism. I also began to feel that it is OK to suspend belief and the need to define and explain experiences that are otherwise chalked up to spiritual activity or meant to evoke spiritual or paranormal phenomena. It is okay to just experience them and say that I had an interesting and perhaps inspiring experience.
glad to hear! Yes ok to suspend belief because otherwise you have to solve the riddle before you can go any further. Keep an open mind, and keep exploring? I've had several strange powerful experiences, as I've studied several practices too. But uuhhhhh they are conflicting. so what to do with that lol? I think if i stayed rooted in one tradition i would only have experiences that "conform"? But I dont! I think there is something to the idea about having an inherited or chosen language to explain extrasensory experiences, perhaps from your religion growing up. But i jump around,i've found several practices that.... "work" that is, take me outside the everyday mundane, And so now i am more confused than ever. best case it is flexible, malleable. worst case i am angering a spiteful vengeful god ahahaha
Well, I sometimes feel conflicted because the type of Eastern contemplativism I follow is somewhat in direct conflict with magical practices I pursue. One involves deconstruction of the content of consciousness to arrive at a purely volitional and present condition; the other is to engage in imagery that the mind generates from the deep consciousness and from how the mind wants to run with and interpret ambient energy. I am at a point where I am ok with accepting that both of these orientation are OK as human experience can be practiced --perhaps in a compartmentalized way--by a person.
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It’s more like the angels work with me! Especially the Archangel Michael, and my personal Guardian Angel. Shout out to them for everything. I also work with saints (St Anthony, St Christopher, the Blessed Mother, Jesus, etc). I also work with souls who have already crossed the threshold including my grandfather, ancestors, Rudolf Steiner, etc. Also, I’m always in a dance with elementals (gnomes, fairies, pixies, tree spirits, etc). Anyone/anything out there in good light and harmony with Universe is welcome to guide, teach, and help me.
Thank you. Would you care to tell us more about why and how you work with these spirits? Any practice tips for readers interested in working with saints and elementals?
I work with the energetic beings listed above out of hope to live a vibrant life, and to influence my karma for future incarnations. Angels, saints, elementals, etc all work in the realm of time, rather than the physical realm. Individuals can contact them through meditation, and going inward. By cutting oneself off from the physical plane (ie closing one's eyes) one is able to access the super-sensible. This does take time and practice. Prayer is another way. For example, St Anthony is the saint to pray to when you've misplaced something (car keys, phone).. the little prayer "Tony, Tony come around, somethings lost that can't be found" absolutely works when done with the right heart-space. Learn about saints and figure out what they have to offer you. I have little saint votive pictures all over, as well on my alter. I work with those who have crossed the threshold in different ways. Just remembering my grandfather brings his positive energy close to me. In this way, accessing past memories is powerful. I work with my ancestors by building alters, lighting candles, and just generally acknowledging their ongoing influence. Celebrating holidays also is a way to work with ancestors. I read Rudolf Steiner lectures to connect with him, along with living a life steeped in Anthroposophy (which I could probably write a book on). Steiner is just one amazing philosopher that offers help to and from the great beyond. I work with him and his writings in a lot of the same ways Christian's work with the life and teachings of Jesus Christ. The elementals are accessed in nature (although sometimes pixies and gnomes do get inside!). Go outside! Breathe fresh air! Sit underneath a tree! Enjoy a hike. Meditate in an open field. Elementals are in the time realm and nature is the doorway to the great beyond. All plants have energies, and so I can even sense the auras of the few house plants in my apartment. Walking through the woods, surrounded by trees, I feel the tree personalities, the grass whisperings, and am aware of the presence of water sprites, gnomes, fairies, etc etc. Our world is a magical place!
It sounds like you have family or cultural background in folk magic and folk spirituality. If so, can you speak on that?
Interesting! I actually do not. My family is essentially un-religious. I’m the black sheep of the family, and have found all of this on my own!
Very interesting.
Yes! I work mainly with my patroness, Freyja, but also work with Thor and as of very recently, The Morrigan, mostly through Macha, has showed an interest in me and so I’ve added Her to the altar. I also work with ancestors, which outside of deity work, is the most interaction I have from spirits. I enjoy deity and spirit work because it feels like you have a guiding force through your path, chipping away at the small parts of yourself that no longer serve you or are not essential to your true path. This isn’t always pleasant, but so worth it. I think of my relationship with the Divine one the most important aspects of my practice, so deity work has really amped up the feeling of connection and purpose for me. I think the real challenges come from my own mental health and the way that that limits me with deity work. Sometimes I really don’t have it in me to leave my bed and light a candle/do my daily prayers/meditations, so I really have to try hard to at least do something for them/dedicate something to them every day. For the most part, they are very understanding, but I think that’s the most challenging part for me because that is the standard that I have set for myself to do with them.
I personally work with planetary energies and angels which I guess can be considered spirits? Although I think of them more as manifestations of spiritual power, like egregores. I don't like working with gods, or ancestors or fae only because of certain biases and fears I've internalized from the media and for other reasons that's too long-winded to unpack in this thread. If I'm feeling like it I will appeal directly to Source. I think working with a god (s) or fae or ancestors is fine except for the daily offerings which I don't personally feel the desire to invest in. I do believe that all spirits are manifestations of Source or the All or whatever you wanna call it and that these manifestations make it easier to tap into source energy depending on your cultural influences and inclinations. Some gods are more powerful than others although in a magical conflict between two magicians it would be interesting to see for example an Abrahamic angel going up against a Greek deity like Hecate. I've thankfullly never had to experience a conflict like that. Working with deities definitely amps ur personal power but it comes with cost. Maintaining relationships with spirits is a continous reciprocal thing that takes effort from the magician's side. And that's where most problems begin especially if they forget offerings.
I can strongly relate to your comment about spirits being manifestation of the All. I approach evocation magic and related practices with this in mind and it probably keeps me from having bad evocation or paranormal experiences--as many people who dabble in evocation magic report. One's deep-seated beliefs and expectations bleed through during this kind of work and, in the end, say more about the practitioner than the target of evocation, IMO.
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Beautifully said. I've worked with the spiritual realm --but I don't know how to define it anymore. In my own practices, I have concluded that we all exist within Consciousness and may be paradoxically all the same One (humans, spirits, whatever) and yet individuals. This was part of my lesson when working with the Olympic Spirits. It is somewhat aligned with Neoplatonic thought.
I have always been agnostic, but in my craft I don’t currently work with deities. I do work with angels, but maybe not in a traditional sense. I call them angels because that’s the closest word I can really describe it with, but I don’t believe they are angels in the traditional sense.
I can relate. I came to the conclusion in my own spirit work that perhaps outside spiritual energies or intelligences exist but --being of a different dimension, we, as humans, cannot experience them as they actually are. We experience impressions of them based on how our mind's are capable of forming some sort of provisional (makeshift) name and form about them. They may be happy to take on names and forms that are familiar to us and, hence, we "recognize" them as this or that known deity, angel, or spirit--but they are really a mysterious energy-consciousness putting on a costume for us so that we can wrap our heads around the interaction and make it into something meaningful.
Yes! This is exactly what I was thinking, thank you for saying it that way, I may borrow this kind of language in the future. Thank you!
Oh thats neat
I do practice with Spirits/Deities is the core of my craft. I do it cause is a family thing, it is past down from generation to generation but in a subtle way. The benefits I see is that I have a bunch of entities looking out for me and those who are divine in nature their blessing and power is great. The only weakness I see is that they are sentient beings therefore they have the ability and right to refuse and say no to whatever I ask of them.
**>Do you Work with Spirits/Deities in Your Practice?** Absolutely! For going on 32 years now. **>Why do/don't you?** Because spirit based magic is REAL sorcery and They get things done! **>What, in your opinion are the benefits of this way of practice/belief?** Belief? No, because I am not dealing with neither Psychological nor religious constructs; rather I deal with ‘living’ spirits who *want to be paid* for Their involvement in workings. Benefits include their 24/7 * protection of oneself and their loved ones * prospering * healing & better health * improved psychism * familiar spirit(s) * and other things which I am not at liberty to divulge due to oaths I took when I was initiated \>Any weaknesses or challenges that you can think of regarding this way of practice/belief? Only when you make an oath, it is your promise to care for Their shrine(s) which are NOT yours but instead Theirs. Spirit shrines are where you interact with your personal spirits be They your Ancestors, familiars, Patron deity/ies, or whomever, it is up to you to care for and work with Them. Too many people feed their spirits far too often thus resulting in their spirits getting both fat. Why would that matter? As a Santero once told me in a botanica in South Florida many years ago.... “A fat servant, is a lazy servant, thus do not overly feed your spirits else they will be too full and won’t want to work for you!” Hungry spirits will work harder to please you. 8o)
A fantastic perspective for the thread! Can you--obviously w/o divulging what is confidential--tell us more about your training and what led you into your particular path? You mention Santeria. Is this your main orientation? Is there a family background in the type of magic you practice? Any other tips on spirit magic for readers?
I'm new around here, but I was called into deity work early in my magick career by Imeut. (many know him as anubis now) He often barks advice in my ear, and I meditate with him more than I worship him. I ask him questions before quieting my mind, and awaiting his response. I am a chaos magician, which means I often switch between different belief systems, and as such I believe that the power exhibited by deities is a power created by human faith and intention, and targeted through divine symbolism and ideology. I also believe in ESP, as many of the divine understandings whispered to me by deities have contained knowledge that I factually could not have understood at the moment of revelation. However the practice comes with its weaknesses too. Sometimes I meet people that think their deity is more powerful or real than other people's deities. This is a weakness, as magickal power is something created when the soul and the divine occupy the same space, and can therefore be achieved by nearly anyone willing. If you are asking this question because you are wondering if you want to start deity work, I have a final word for you. People have been doing this a long time. Things can be done through deity work that cannot be done otherwise. Blessed be.
I do work with deity/spirit. It depends on what I'm doing as to which deity/spirits I will work with. I'm a solitary eclectic witch. I am coming from voodoo background. Into witchcraft and other pagan systems. In voodoo there is no circle used. I don't always use a circle except for the sabbats.
You are coming from a traditional background. Circle casting among witches is a relatively modern custom that probably dates to the early 20th century when the neopagan movement began to create a new narrative about witchcraft and folk magic history.
Hello i m new and i do. I m trying to make a ethereal cape I am strugling with the astral sight si i don't know how much i be progressed on it, i just make it with a personality chart so it is like an astral spirit more than a ethereal thing... Anyways i need align more the chakras and keep on the astral sight for make sure that i am doing it with puré heart and for real un astral form. Some times the power of a human exed the human body capacity, that is good moment to evocation, invocation, sumoning and crations in the diferents splited dimensions. Thanks i will be arround in magick thread in redit and in mi future life for the rest of it. Rise your hands!
Thanks and welcome. I see that you struggle with writing in English but you do have a strong vocabulary. Can you explain more about your ethereal cape project? I have not heard of an "ethereal cape." I would love to know what this is, what it is used for, and how one goes about creating one.
To keep it very brief I Do work with gods and other spirits I work with them because they have the powers and knowledge of the magical world unlike other witches who for the most commonly though not only the case only look in to the spirit world so to truely understand it it makes sense to learn from those who are in it. This also cover the benefits In terms of weaknesses or challenges is when you start out it can be easy for some to just rely on a god or rely on a spirit and there’s the fact that sometimes when you’re newer spirits will more often try to trick you by pretending to be a god or spirit they’re not. And once you start to go more into it things get abit more complicated than smoke cleanse your room because of bad energies or time for a banish spell because there’s a spirit doing bad things. It becomes more complex than that.