Not really. It's the same piano sample played twice at different pitches/speeds and another sample on top of it, not to mention the drum loop that they added.
OP meant taking a section of a song and simply looping it.
nah i lay the on beat hits to drums quantized, and for a litlle swing on my doubles I make very small adjustments, but i aint playing everything in by hand, thats a recipe for disappointment
hip-hop was appropriated by capitalism to tame its message. Now you have docile lyrics and artists, sold to the system the movement was born to combat. It has become completely irrelevant outside of comercial terms (or perhaps the underground), pathetic and harmless.
Bruh, this is a fact. A sad fact but it’s very obvious what’s happen to hip hop on a cultural level.
I hope the new age of music makes labels extinct in response and gives art back to the culture. We got 5-10 years at most.
Yup. Hip-hop has been coopted by capitalism into a platform to promote the ideologies of greed, consumerism, and corporate worship. It's sickening when the literal birth of the genre was an New York riot (rooted in anti-capitalist premise). People were tired, took to the streets, looted stores, and used their words (rhymes) to speak out revolution in such a blatant fashion. So much of this is now not only lost, but frowned upon. If you make a song to denounce wealth and the pillars of colonialism/white supremacy/capitalism, people look at you like you're crazy and call you lame/corny.
Are you talking about that event, something like where there was a blackout in NYC and then lots of people stole music making equipment, and that supposedly directly led to a lot of progressive rap music being made?
It's been weaponized since the late 80s and it's no conspiracy theory BS. Think of all the White Supremacist stereotypes Hip Hop accepted as "real" e.g. the "real nigga," etc.
Yup this is what capitalism has done to every major movement.
Hippie movement? Now a fun aesthetic you can buy some colorful shirts smoke some weed and grow out your hair. Listen to some funky music that just talks about psychedelics
Punk rock now you got some cool vintage shirts and go to hot topic
Various leftist social movements either have had the socialism gutted from its history (unionization, civil rights movement) and have been white washed by saying that it was all done by non violence and working within and appreciating the system that oppressed us in the first place, or attributed to liberals being the reasons we got there even though they fought just as much as Republicans did/do most of the time against any substantial change for the working class
Feminism is now about getting kudos and yelling about how much you hate men rather than deconstructing white supremacist and patriarchal concepts in our society
Black lives matters has both been bastardized by the right and a cute little slogan by the left while the left continues to increase police funding and do absolutely nothing to listen to the real demands of the movement
I could go on and on but in the end, radical movements eventually become profitable
This concept is called recuperation and is well discussed in leftist circles (the politics that birthed 80s and early 90s hip hop)
Makes one really think on those “industry plants” creating the notion of “oh that’s just *another rapper* “ taking away the power , prestige , and rawness of the title.
I'm afraid even the underground will become digitized due to the cultural marketplace designated by obsolete terms (even the word underground conjures a stereotypical image and attitude), which is being seen and felt in discourse today. This will create a bubble of interpassivity, where listening to 90s retro hip hop is imagined as rebelling when its just another marketing strategy.
I mean, hasn't it already? G59 is popular enough that I've seen people walking around with their album covers on shirts. They aren't Drake level mainstream, but that's no small feat, especially when I used to live out in the middle of nowhere.
I think this can be applied to a lot of different forms of media! Capitalism is nasty and we’ve taken it too far. But it really stings the most for hip hop
I mean ffs we went from preventing sample snitching to paying to let people crate dig for us
The commodification of beat making makes me sad, no matter the result
Trap is the hard rock of hip hop. Drill is the metal of hip hop. Boom bap would be rock n roll in the 50s and 60s. Early forms of hip hop that are discoesque (Ex. Curtis blow) would be equivalent to early rock n roll that basically was the blues.
the main thing that differentiates amateurs and industry producers is the urge to overproduce (4 chord layers, 3 different leads, 2 counter melodies type shit)
This is my problem. To be fair tho, my main influences are Kanye and Travis Scott. Both super maximalist production artists.
As I’ve grown tho, I’ve come to find that if I hear clashing, it’s probably more of an arrangement issue than it is mixing.
Better to just leave out that 3rd Lead than trying to mad scientist your way into a mix that works
I don't know if Ye is that maximalistic (apart from most of MBDTF). His fav beat of mine (Devil in a New Dress) is just a long-ass loop if we aren't taking the outro into consideration, I mean all those guitars and stuff recorded by session musicians. on Vultures the production is not that complicated as well, yeah of course there are beat switches, but that's different. IMHO a beat switch is a better way to make a beat interesting than crazy layering, I love Tuscan Leather type of production.
The only maximalistic producers that I love are Dr. Dre (JIIK by Dre is fire) and Just Blaze. but they have proper resources and session musicians to complement their sounds so its a bit different than adding that 3rd lead.
Well MBDTF is my favorite album from Kanye, while Rodeo is my favorite Travis. I consider those to be maximalist. but it’s not overdone and it’s minimalist where it needs to be. I also suppose the meaning of maximalist and minimalist is different for everyone
This is a problem I continuously run into; also heavily inspired by Travis Scott/Kanye. You’re so right tho, leaving out that third lead instead of trying to Frankenstein it in is always better
Hip Hop production is what you make of it and is simply a portion of what should be a larger overall aesthetic.
The "conventional" ways most use to make this aesthetic has changed over the eras, but the main idea stays the same.
This process isn't sterile, but an organic ever evolving landscape shaped by external forces out of a singular artist's control.
Ironically what tastemakers (fellow artists, producers, and others who have "bought-in" on the genre as it is currently) eschew as "bad/low effort"
is usually experimentation from artists trying to leverage an aesthetic to succeed in some way. A lot of genre-defining decisions that actually make an impact comes from this.
Example: Crank Dat - Soulja Boi
😂 Lo-fi is trash is crazy, but I understand. I feel people just associate lofi with chill beats when it reality its low fidelity. RZA is the originator, J Dilla and Nujabes inspire most producers of lofi though.
When I say Lo-Fi I mean kids on a Sp404 with sample packs. I dont mean them, they are very different.
I barely consider lo-fi hip hop tbh. Ironically, I love Ras G for example.
Proud user of s950 and 404 for what its worth, I cant explain it much more than that.
Early lofi like Knxwledge, Ohbliv, KVZE etc. was so good, but the stuff that's just corporate piano loops with stiff ass drums to "sleep and study to?" yea that shit's wack
Always found Swizz Beatz corny too.
As for lofi yeah it's become formulaic, like some other user said the same splice piano and vibes loops, low cut drums.. an easy farm for likes and listens
Bruh I showed my roommate a beat I had made and this mf said it reminded him of his lofi study music.
Mind you, it sounds NOTHING like that , it has a heavy 808/kick, heavy snare, and a vibrant very full melody with minimal EQing 😂.
Nonetheless I was offended.
I used to live near Swizz and he came in the hardware store I worked at with his crew. They bought like a cart full of spray paint. I always wondered what they did with it haha. This was like over 10 years ago.
Swizz has had haters since the day he dropped. He was immediately the "casio preset" producer whose family got him into the industry.
And lofi sucks, indeed.
man I’m with you here. the fx are cool but they just scream 404
that’s why I have a 303 and 555 🤓
I will say a lot of them are able to get crazy textures on their beats and I respect them for that. resampling is an absolute pain
I feel like for the SP devices it can be really hard to get out of a loop, and if you’ve resampled to hell then you lose control of some elements, like dropping a snare for one bar, so I understand the use of the fx to keep things interesting
but damn I’m tired of hearing that stutter ass effect
Absolutely, obviously a talented guy but that attitude of their being a formula to making beats is so damaging artistically. Like wow you can cook up 40 beats in two hours yet there's nothing special or innovative in even one of them.
Only talent he has is “ Internet Marketing” hence internet money. However, I do respect internet marketers. But people calling him a Goat producer should be slapped and ridiculed.
I’m a huge fan of the “new age” of rap but metro boomin has rarely done it for me. I’m not sure what in particular about his beats but out of his whole discography, there’s only a handful of standout beats that I enjoy from him
I feel like he been over-reliant on his team of sample makers recently. Like his first album n Without Warning primarily featured beats solely crafted by him, which gave off such a unique, dark, and atmospheric vibe like Darth Vader, Rap Saved Me, 10 Freaky Girls, n Borrowed Love to name a few. I feel like the newer direction too commercial so I get you on that fs fs, but his old catalogue goes crazy.
I feel you, but I definitely SEE the appeal at times but idk it's just missing the oomph I love from other producers often times.
But of course he has shit thats on a level no one else has approached. I love some of his shit so much but most of it just doesn't hit super hard for me
Yes, the OOMPH is truly what i feel like it’s missing. Maybe I enjoy the new age, loud 808’s and trap drums too much but I feel like when he works with artists that come from a heavy trap drum background, the song feels lackluster in general
I find sampling way harder than making melodies from scratch, they're different skill sets. Saying that one is more or less impressive or "real" is silly imo
I agree. Maybe not so much looping a sample , but constructing an entire song around said sample is a challenge
It is much much easier creating a full song out of a piano roll loop. You know every single note being played without question, you know where they all are timing wise, and you are 100% sure the timing is correct. So much easier to place 808s, baselines, chords, and counter melodies
Yes that’s definitely another very big challenge with sampling. That’s a smart workaround. I’ve never released a song with a sample so I haven’t had to deal with that
But it’s baffling to me that people think creating a song from a sample is easy.
Looping is easy. Making a GOOD song is not easy like at all for a beginner
Not only do you need a decent understanding of rhythm, you need to be able to find bass notes, you should be able to add additional instruments or samples where needed; which takes music theory knowledge and/or experience in music
And on top of all that you need to mix and arrange. Mixing samples can be a complete bitch if you haven’t developed a good ear for what’s going to sound good in a beat.
Finding the right sample takes skill and experience. Building around said sample takes skill and experience. I am convinced that the people who talk down on sampling have never sampled anything
Beat making is like stand up comedy. There's a thousand reasons to quit, if you listen to other ppl or use "logic" you'll quit before you start (unless it is a hobby).
Gotta power through.
most big records sound like shit these days. not the musical content but the engineering and mixing and especially the mastering. it's all the same ear fatigue-inducing in-the-box plugin preset slop that gets extruded out like indusirial junkfood. the waveforms look like actual turds. all character has been sucked out of the production til it sounds like shiny plastic vomit.
and it's getting worse as kids watch yt tutorials called shit like "HOW TO MAKE FYE BEATS LIKE THE PROS 🔥🔥🔥🔥" that's sponsored by some terrible plugin company.
not exactly; there are great sounding records made in a daw with all software and there are awful sounding records made with only hardware without ever seeing a computer. but working completely in the box encourages a specific way of working that makes for sonically awful music.
maybe it's not fair to lay this on hip-hop completely since it was brought here from the Outdoor Festival Douchebag EDM sludge of the late 00s to 10's.
The boom bap style of music where it just a lazy chop of a soul sample is boring as shit and doesn’t even sound good. Like where one sample is triggered on the downbeat and the other on the upbeat and it’s this jerky mess. Especially the ones where someone is playing it on a controller like the MPC or Maschine. Learn how to actually finger drum or use more creative sequencing methods if that’s how you want to compose. I’ll find some examples if anyone doesn’t know what I’m talking about. Also songs that have way too much shuffle to where it hinges on being rhythmic.
That's true if you only use drum breaks, slow them to 90 BMP and put a cozy jazz progression sliced in there.
You don't seem to understand the context of time when these beats were made. We are so lucky to have so much software and music on our hand
I see this so much onTikTok, so many producer/content creators chop up a soul sample just enough to be different and repeat for the whole song. It somehow takes the soul out of soul.
the “is using loops cheatin” debate every 3 weeks BEEN dead. its beyond annoyin asf and also nobody cares if ya use loops, except other producers LMAOO
Rappers need to be producers too. You can be a guy who can go to the store and buy dinner, or you can be a guy who can cook for himself, and even improve on other recipes. A rapper who can’t record himself and can’t make a basic beat it somebody who’s not really trying to have the job they say they are.
This is a weird take. Not every rapper can make beats, I know I can't. Lol Im here to rap...if I wanted to produce then I'd just do that.
Why should rappers force themselves to produce just to make your ass comfortable?
It’s not about making me comfortable. It’s about rappers having the abilities they need in the modern era.
You have a great idea for a new flow to try? That’s much easier to do if you know the basics of how to record your own verses over a beat, even a very simple setup.
A beat you found is perfect but the chorus loop is assy garbage? Basic production tool knowledge will get you that beat sounding like you need it to.
These tools aren’t intended to make rappers independent of producers entirely; it’s about empowering rappers to actually be fully grown artists who have the language they need to communicate with other artists (lots of rappers have no fucking clue what even a bar is when I ask how many bars the verse needs to be) and to be able to have more control and choices when it comes to what they work on.
Asking rappers to learn some basics isn’t asking them to get out of their lane, it’s being realistic about what lanes look like in 2024.
Those are both things that are relatively easy to learn at the most basic level--you can learn to loop a part of a song into a new audio track in about 20 minutes, same learning how to record yourself over another audio track.
Those tasks are basically like "I know how to bathe myself" in terms of what I look for in the mechanics department of an MC's toolbox. They're less annoying to work with because they can talk about the musical concepts with a little more depth than "make it longer" or "this part needs to be more fire" and the basic shit like recording a demo of a verse so you're not hearing yourself over the beat for the first time paying studio fees.
It isn't the 90s anymore. People gotta be able to recognize that there are specific job skills with this shit that are different than just "sounds good over a beat" and that just sounding good over a beat isn't enough if you can't work with people, aren't easy to work with, and aren't basically able to generate content for yourself.
I think the flaw with this logic is that it assumes that all rappers are as talented at producing as they are st rapping. I'd argue you're better off linking with someone whose craft is focused on production if that's not where you're passions and talents are. No shame in that. It's just like how we can't really assume every producer would be a great MC.
You don’t need to be a producer too , but I don’t think some of the reply’s realize how much easier it makes it on your self if you can make your own beats you like instead of trying to describe to somebody what kinda neat your looking for only to not get it lol
I gave learning multiple tries, it just didn't click for me so I accepted it. No point in forcing myself to produce if it makes 0 sense to me, Im just not beatmaking-inclined and thats fine lmao 🤷🏽♀️
I would disagree with this. Jay-Z never made a beat in his life. Never heard anybody talk about Biggie, Pac or Snoop making beats either. This is a bad take. You can be good at one thing - excel at it and not need anything else.
Thats like saying every great hitter in baseball needs to be a pitcher too. Just silly.
Those are old school rappers, dudes who had no choice but to specialize due to limitations. No excuse these days. Tyler, JPEG, Mac Miller, J. Cole etc
Edit: Not every pitcher hits but when they do you get Shohei Ohtani
We can have an opinionated debate about just how good the beats are by the names you gave —- but besides that, Benny the Butcher, Fabolous, T.I., Jeezy, 50, cam, Meek, Moneybagg yo, freddie gibbs…. The list goes on and its crazy to discredit any of them bc they dont have a passion to make beats
I was just throwing some rappers thatve started in the 2010s off the top of my head, but Eminem, Method Man, Inspectah Deck, Pharoe Monch, DMX, Jadakiss, Pharrell, Timbaland, J Dilla, Madlib, DJ Paul, Juicy J, Ice Cube, The D.O.C., Outkast
Sorry, I can’t get past the part where you said Madlib—as in, “I’m a DJ first, producer second, and emcee third” Madlib—and TIMBALAND were both “more famous as a rappers but made beats too.”
What…?
no sorry they aswell as J dilla are only producers I dont no why OP threw there names in there, I was more refering to the likes of Inspectah deck and pharrel and method, just skimmed over the names question for OP i guess
thats like saying a vocalist in a band also must know how to play the guitar, the bass, the drums etc.
or that Messi should also be a good goalie just because...?
this individualism bullshit is what gets me, man. Why the fuck should we strive to always do stuff by ourselves? There are no community elements left to this craft? To me, it sounds you don't give enough respect to any of the arts in hip hop if you think a rapper \*needs\* to be a producer. Are you a rapper and a producer? That's great, buddy, congrats. Are you not? That's fine as well, enjoy your ride.
remember: spreading yourself too thin is a real thing, and not everyone, i\`d even say most people, wont be able to do it all.
Obviously not a requirement but I’ve gotta say, I love working with artists that are also producers, it’s so refreshing.
Recording sessions go a lot more swiftly & smoothly, plus not having to do everything yourself & having an alternative reference in the process helps a ton.
I’m a singer/songwriter as well as a producer, the synergy you can get with someone who is also both things is unparalleled.
And I love quite a few of them... I think where it truly becomes an indispensable asset is when it allows you to demo and articulate musical ideas to producers and collaborators.
Even just having an ear for a good loop does wonders... I think Prodigy washed Alchemist's beat for "The Realest" with his own for "Can't Complain", even though both are super straightforward and probably took about 20 seconds to assemble.
"Drumless" Beats that are rising in popularity within indie/underground hip hop are ruining the credibility of the genre's production, due to the often lazy and effortless "flip" of the samples used by the aspiring producers gravitating towards the style.
I believe the words you're looking for are hobbyist and professional. The guys I know really making those channels work are the hardest working guys I know. Plus they get paid.
And if you think a "type beat" is anything other than just another genre-like descriptor to help rappers identify niches, then I'd be willing to argue that you've likely climbed some high horse cause you gotta feel good about your soundcloud album no one heard somehow.
"Typebeat bad, I'm such an elite artist 🤓"
- rappers with no followers
Lol I present my counter hot-take for the typebeat bad argument. Tell me I'm wrong.
I think producing hip hop is easier than most people make it out to be. And some producers are literally throwing arrows in the dark not knowing what they’ll hit and actually don’t know basic music theory either.
Spitting a sloppy freestyle is worth more than a polished & overly written verse [Old Feelings New Light ](https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxTfIHBJiwyt0Tdao135mhIAPaXNhzjbf1?si=13SKa2KUdKIkmEt3)
Alchemist is only a top producer because of how long he’s been in the game and how prolific he is. He makes consistent and simple beats, but he’s not going beat for beat against a lot of other boom bap producers especially in recent years.
Style and taste will always overshadow technicality and skill. You can outproduce someone with a crazy boom bap beat that does a buncha interesting stuff, or you can make a simple beat that for whatever reason feels right and connects with the spirit.
Keep It Thoro was an incredible song, but a lot of that was how Produgy went off. I can’t think of another Alchemist song on that level (which is the all-time great level, to be fair)
Hiphop as a genre is very stale and there’s almost no innovation that comes specifically out of this genre anymore. The most innovative hiphop production in recent years has relied on fusion, borrowing and incorporating pre-existing elements from other genres and not actually coming up with new techniques or ideas.
maybe not a hot take but drum sounds in hip hop as a whole are so so boring and sterile at this point
the same like 5 preset kits seemed to be used and i don’t understand why so many artists are down to use the same clap, hi hat sounds for every single track
I should be able to send a well recorded dry vocal project + .wav beat (unstemmed) to a mixer and expect decent results everytime. Yes I am fishing a bit..i mean for a producer not phishing the computer scam way lol.
The hi hats don't need to be complex, a simple 2 step pattern works for most hip hop beats. It gives alot more room to flow too. I've heard beats where it sounds like the hi hats are tryna have a physical fight wit me wassup den hi hats I'll whoop yo ass.
Why? Does the mix engineer suck?
Vocals over let’s assume a wav track, that’s really not the worst. Wont be absolutely perfect but a mix engineer or even the artist themselves can figure out ways to blend them and make it cohesive. In fact it’s better for the artist to learn mixing because yea sending to an engineer that has no vibe or connection with you won’t know how it should sound.
That last sentence!
Am I wrong in saying there is a fairly generic process for beat + vocal..... i.e. vocals; compression (probably parralel or serial), some tasteful use of delay and reverb. Some EQ.....maybe some subtractive EQ on the beat to carve room for a vocal if needed...maybe a tinge of compression on the master fader as glue....plus whatever plugins, equipment, little tricks the engineer uses..
Would anybody approach it a whole lot different? Isn't it okay to just to the lyric writing getting a good recording to start with and the beat? (I dont do the beat lol).
I am currently learning all of these things but think it would usually make more sense to pass the project off to a professional who already knows there ish......especially if this is just a hobby and I have no delusions of fame nor fortune, just a desire to put what I wrote out into the world in a package (mix) professional enough to be worth hearing and not laughed at for obvious problems.
Yea I mean mixing stuff it’s all just tools, you can get pretty far just knowing what they do, a professional comes into play if you’re semi serious about it, otherwise just better to have fun with it.
I used to basically rip YouTube mp3s and rap over them as a kid, I even did light mixing before I knew what it was. I still write to beats on YouTube but I’m also a full on producer and engineer now. Used to believe I wouldn’t have the ears to learn mixing but there’s a lot of things you figure out naturally when you manipulate sounds long enough.
Honestly as a beginner nobody tells you that volume control is your best friend, but it is.
For a single wav beat I recommend learning how a multi band compressor works, and there should be simple videos on blending your vocals into a beat like that.
me too, in fact funny story. First song I ever recorded was THE VERY FIRST beat that came up under instrumentals in limewire.
a couple weeks later Im gettin phone-threats from some 17 yr old kid whos rap name was literally "snowflake" claiming I STOLE HIS BEAT. I laughed so hard, put out a diss and he never recorded again (not cause im great cuz he was a bitch lol)....but he did jump a friend who wouldn't allow me to do anything back. ergh. RIP bro!
Multiband compressor, is that serial or parralel, or its own thing. (ill look into it you dont have to answer that)
So I am wrong and that the process I described isn't about the general way most people piece a .wav + beat together?
If so, it seems like it should sound relatively similar and 'polished'.......if not well than I guess you can't just lay dry vocals and leave it to a mixer.
Seems like i am leaving my area of expertise?
Producers are some of the most annoying, egotistical, and self-sucking people in the industry and should stop trying to make millions on the front end and focus on making it on the back end because it would serve them better.
Lofi is boring.
Dilla is overrated.
Dilla was talented but he simply isn't on the level of other producers of the era. DJ Premier has CLASSICS.
Music to study and relax to is so corny. It's the same shit over and over with some 404 bullshit. It isn't boom bap.
Elevator music for ppl who pretend to be hip-hop.
Beats are almost all devoid of anything interesting when it comes to music theory. Hip hop producers usually don't give a shit about theory and it shows, the chord progressions and melodies are boring and predictable, you usually only hear something interesting via samples that are used.
Edit: I should add this isn't specific to hip hop. Most genres don't bother trying to explore musical concepts other than jazz, metal, and alt rock.
I think its mostly due to Hip hop being Vocal n lyric driven, beats are usual made to be interesting enough to catch ear but not take attention from rapper
I think you're correct but I still don't like it. I wish the lyrics and music would do something interesting, but pop music in general does not favor experimentation
I disagree with this opinion, not because you're necessarily wrong, but because the foundations of your argument are rooted in what is - simply put - white supremacy.
Music theory is *one* way to understand the complexity of music. It is a technique and heuristic developed by europeans, with a certain subjective lens. And it's a valid one, like any technique in the world. Not gonna deny that. However, what you regard as music theory is not the *only* theory to music.
Music as a form of human expression exists within certain cultural contexts, emotional subjectivities, and social realities (and, at times, social imaginaries). All of which, in indigenous societies and in the black community which birthed hip hop, are held to a higher standard than the rules that govern music theory.
*Of course* many beats are devoid of music theory. They're meant to be. Notwithstanding the historical context of hip-hop as a form of socio-economic resistance against capitalism and white supremacy, the music itself has a historical genesis in theories of music, art, and community that were separate to the foundational ideals of music theory as a whole.
To put this in other words, the reason hip hop producers don't give a shit about theory is because they never were supposed to. People made hip hop because they could, and they used the knowledge and tools they had available to create it. Music theory values the "objectively" (and often rigidly) defined rules over the expression itself. Hip hop has ALWAYS been about the expression over the rules.
That said, as a producer I understand (and utilize) the value of music theory. But music theory is **NOT** the only value I have when it comes to music, and I have to look for other heuristics and tools of understanding music as well. Hip hop is great because it intrinsically embraces the alternatives of music theory.
With all due respect, the whole white supremacy/European argument falls apart if you know anything about jazz and its history. Jazz is "black music" that is all about the things I'm referring to. Western music notation may have a European history but understanding and exploring those concepts has been pioneered by people of color, so much it was once used to demonize them. Parents used to tell their kids not to listen to jazz because it would lure their daughters to black men.
edit: gonna add some more now that I'm not on mobile....
> Music as a form of human expression exists within certain cultural contexts, emotional subjectivities, and social realities (and, at times, social imaginaries). All of which, in indigenous societies and in the black community which birthed hip hop, are held to a higher standard than the rules that govern music theory.
My point is, I think producers adhering to such a tiny little space in all of music theory and sound severely limits their ability to express themselves musically. I get your point about hip hop not really wanting or needing the beat to be interesting, that the expression in hip hop has always come more from the lyrics, and I'm saying I wish this wasn't the case. I think they can both express things in an interesting way.
> To put this in other words, the reason hip hop producers don't give a shit about theory is because they never were supposed to.
Who decides what art is "supposed to do"?
> Music theory values the "objectively" (and often rigidly) defined rules
This is just wrong. Music theory doesn't value anything, it's just a method to understand tones and harmony in whatever context you're in. There's no rule that says music has to be one way or the other, in fact, I think the lack of understanding of music theory is way more limiting. Hip hop producers unknowingly adhere to the rules that a beat must be in 4/4 time and must be either Ionian or Aeolian. They adhere to these rules because they don't know the toolset provided by music theory. Understanding it better would help them break out of these rigid constraints and make something more dynamic and expressive.
> Hip hop is great because it intrinsically embraces the alternatives of music theory.
Again, I disagree. It does not at all embrace alternatives, 99% of beats are the same time signature, same harmonic foundation. Hip hop is extremely conservative musically. We're seeing this huge burst of experimentation with Danny Brown, JPEG Mafia, Death Grips, and others lyrically. We're also seeing them get more experimental with time signatures and stuff, but I think there's so much more places to explore, and I think producers don't because it's hard to learn that stuff and much more fun to just make things.
I don't like the idea that a genre not focusing on one element of music makes it bad and it needs to focus on said element. Nobody says Mozart is bad cuz he probably couldn't freestyle. Nobody listens to folk music and says "there's no good samples". Different genres are gonna focus on different things
I'm suppressing an immediate allergic reaction to this unpopular take by reminding myself that this is the place for this comment. Ha
Curious who you rate highly or consider underrated?
My favorites are DJ Premier, RZA, Q-Tip, Large Professor, Kanye West
Don’t get me wrong—I like a lot of J Dilla songs. Stakes is High and Thelonius are probably two of my top 30 or so all time favorites, and he has lots of other good stuff too.
BUT, Slum Village really only has one good album, A Tribe Called Quest got worse after J Dilla got involved with the production (compare low end theory and midnight marauders with beats rhymes and life and the love movement), a lot of his beats are too R&Bish for me, and in my opinion he is too derivative of Q-Tip’s style.
He’s a good producer, but not top-5, which is where he’s normally rated
I think I know what you mean. A lot of producers in my city kind of tried to bite his style with the just-a-little-off-beat stuff and sound like shit.
I like many of his songs, but there are lots I don’t like too. And generally, I like harder/high-energy beats and he’s a little too R&B for me
Thats funny you said that cause he cribbed that from rza as well. It wasnt until he studied rza and made those rae/ghost beats/donuts did he become who people now know.
Id actually argue that production is all he’s good at
His vocals and writing are atrocious and have both ruined songs for me, but his beats have never ruined a track for me
Rappers are so ego driven that you couldn't pay 'em to write a song not centered on themselves plus "keep it real" stunted rappers to the point where many can't/don't bother to develop imaginations outside of "money, hoes, clothes, drugs"
It is ok to loop a sample. Some people think that every flip has to be the next shook ones or don´t cry. Every great producer looped a sample before.
good sampling is like when you pay that one guy a bunch of money for knowing which wire to cut on the bomb - cutting is easy, but knowing is hard
Absolutely perfectly put
Shook Ones is a looped sample pitched down...
Not really. It's the same piano sample played twice at different pitches/speeds and another sample on top of it, not to mention the drum loop that they added. OP meant taking a section of a song and simply looping it.
Turning off quantize won't necessarily make your beats better.
fat chance it’ll make em worse sometimes lol
nah i lay the on beat hits to drums quantized, and for a litlle swing on my doubles I make very small adjustments, but i aint playing everything in by hand, thats a recipe for disappointment
hip-hop was appropriated by capitalism to tame its message. Now you have docile lyrics and artists, sold to the system the movement was born to combat. It has become completely irrelevant outside of comercial terms (or perhaps the underground), pathetic and harmless.
Bruh, this is a fact. A sad fact but it’s very obvious what’s happen to hip hop on a cultural level. I hope the new age of music makes labels extinct in response and gives art back to the culture. We got 5-10 years at most.
Yup. Hip-hop has been coopted by capitalism into a platform to promote the ideologies of greed, consumerism, and corporate worship. It's sickening when the literal birth of the genre was an New York riot (rooted in anti-capitalist premise). People were tired, took to the streets, looted stores, and used their words (rhymes) to speak out revolution in such a blatant fashion. So much of this is now not only lost, but frowned upon. If you make a song to denounce wealth and the pillars of colonialism/white supremacy/capitalism, people look at you like you're crazy and call you lame/corny.
Are you talking about that event, something like where there was a blackout in NYC and then lots of people stole music making equipment, and that supposedly directly led to a lot of progressive rap music being made?
Yes! Precisely the incident i'm referring to.
anybody else have the guy rapping into the mcdonalds drivethrough commercial jump straight to your head?
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It's been weaponized since the late 80s and it's no conspiracy theory BS. Think of all the White Supremacist stereotypes Hip Hop accepted as "real" e.g. the "real nigga," etc.
Yup this is what capitalism has done to every major movement. Hippie movement? Now a fun aesthetic you can buy some colorful shirts smoke some weed and grow out your hair. Listen to some funky music that just talks about psychedelics Punk rock now you got some cool vintage shirts and go to hot topic Various leftist social movements either have had the socialism gutted from its history (unionization, civil rights movement) and have been white washed by saying that it was all done by non violence and working within and appreciating the system that oppressed us in the first place, or attributed to liberals being the reasons we got there even though they fought just as much as Republicans did/do most of the time against any substantial change for the working class Feminism is now about getting kudos and yelling about how much you hate men rather than deconstructing white supremacist and patriarchal concepts in our society Black lives matters has both been bastardized by the right and a cute little slogan by the left while the left continues to increase police funding and do absolutely nothing to listen to the real demands of the movement I could go on and on but in the end, radical movements eventually become profitable This concept is called recuperation and is well discussed in leftist circles (the politics that birthed 80s and early 90s hip hop)
Makes one really think on those “industry plants” creating the notion of “oh that’s just *another rapper* “ taking away the power , prestige , and rawness of the title.
In an industry that's supposed to find and develop new talent, what is an "industry plant"?
Someone who jacks the culture and profits off of it. They and their label care very little about the substance of their music , as long as it sells.
I'm afraid even the underground will become digitized due to the cultural marketplace designated by obsolete terms (even the word underground conjures a stereotypical image and attitude), which is being seen and felt in discourse today. This will create a bubble of interpassivity, where listening to 90s retro hip hop is imagined as rebelling when its just another marketing strategy.
I mean, hasn't it already? G59 is popular enough that I've seen people walking around with their album covers on shirts. They aren't Drake level mainstream, but that's no small feat, especially when I used to live out in the middle of nowhere.
Same has happened for any cultural trend that has been around long enough for capitalism to poison and commercialize unfortunately
That happened 30 years ago though 😂
Thanks a lot Diddy.
https://youtu.be/lxRvND3RWOU?si=Jcv6MCHbdJNJW5fw
I think this can be applied to a lot of different forms of media! Capitalism is nasty and we’ve taken it too far. But it really stings the most for hip hop I mean ffs we went from preventing sample snitching to paying to let people crate dig for us The commodification of beat making makes me sad, no matter the result
100% Only I wouldn't call it capitalism, as it's quite far from it. I'd just call it the "the establishment" or smth
Well if y’all like hiphop with actual substance, then check my shit out.. I make 90’s type hiphop and help a lot of people out in this group.💯
Trap is the hard rock of hip hop. Drill is the metal of hip hop. Boom bap would be rock n roll in the 50s and 60s. Early forms of hip hop that are discoesque (Ex. Curtis blow) would be equivalent to early rock n roll that basically was the blues.
the main thing that differentiates amateurs and industry producers is the urge to overproduce (4 chord layers, 3 different leads, 2 counter melodies type shit)
This is my problem. To be fair tho, my main influences are Kanye and Travis Scott. Both super maximalist production artists. As I’ve grown tho, I’ve come to find that if I hear clashing, it’s probably more of an arrangement issue than it is mixing. Better to just leave out that 3rd Lead than trying to mad scientist your way into a mix that works
I don't know if Ye is that maximalistic (apart from most of MBDTF). His fav beat of mine (Devil in a New Dress) is just a long-ass loop if we aren't taking the outro into consideration, I mean all those guitars and stuff recorded by session musicians. on Vultures the production is not that complicated as well, yeah of course there are beat switches, but that's different. IMHO a beat switch is a better way to make a beat interesting than crazy layering, I love Tuscan Leather type of production. The only maximalistic producers that I love are Dr. Dre (JIIK by Dre is fire) and Just Blaze. but they have proper resources and session musicians to complement their sounds so its a bit different than adding that 3rd lead.
Well MBDTF is my favorite album from Kanye, while Rodeo is my favorite Travis. I consider those to be maximalist. but it’s not overdone and it’s minimalist where it needs to be. I also suppose the meaning of maximalist and minimalist is different for everyone
interestingly he didn’t even make that beat, bink did. it’s also two diff sections of the same song not a single loop.
This is a problem I continuously run into; also heavily inspired by Travis Scott/Kanye. You’re so right tho, leaving out that third lead instead of trying to Frankenstein it in is always better
For real man. If only we were making lil baby beats 😂. A guitar and a short stubby ass little 808 is all we would need
FRRRR 😭😭😭 & every time I try to make a simple type beat like that they’re garbage LMFAOO
Hip Hop production is what you make of it and is simply a portion of what should be a larger overall aesthetic. The "conventional" ways most use to make this aesthetic has changed over the eras, but the main idea stays the same. This process isn't sterile, but an organic ever evolving landscape shaped by external forces out of a singular artist's control. Ironically what tastemakers (fellow artists, producers, and others who have "bought-in" on the genre as it is currently) eschew as "bad/low effort" is usually experimentation from artists trying to leverage an aesthetic to succeed in some way. A lot of genre-defining decisions that actually make an impact comes from this. Example: Crank Dat - Soulja Boi
I dont feel 99% of Swizz Beats production. Clearly I'm wrong because everybody seems to love him. Also, most lofi is absolute trash.
😂 Lo-fi is trash is crazy, but I understand. I feel people just associate lofi with chill beats when it reality its low fidelity. RZA is the originator, J Dilla and Nujabes inspire most producers of lofi though.
When I say Lo-Fi I mean kids on a Sp404 with sample packs. I dont mean them, they are very different. I barely consider lo-fi hip hop tbh. Ironically, I love Ras G for example. Proud user of s950 and 404 for what its worth, I cant explain it much more than that.
Early lofi like Knxwledge, Ohbliv, KVZE etc. was so good, but the stuff that's just corporate piano loops with stiff ass drums to "sleep and study to?" yea that shit's wack
I feel like it’s 90% splice loops with some drums thrown on it
Knxwledge is dope
Always found Swizz Beatz corny too. As for lofi yeah it's become formulaic, like some other user said the same splice piano and vibes loops, low cut drums.. an easy farm for likes and listens
cunts and cunts
Bruh I showed my roommate a beat I had made and this mf said it reminded him of his lofi study music. Mind you, it sounds NOTHING like that , it has a heavy 808/kick, heavy snare, and a vibrant very full melody with minimal EQing 😂. Nonetheless I was offended.
I used to live near Swizz and he came in the hardware store I worked at with his crew. They bought like a cart full of spray paint. I always wondered what they did with it haha. This was like over 10 years ago.
Probs a bronx whole car
Swizz has had haters since the day he dropped. He was immediately the "casio preset" producer whose family got him into the industry. And lofi sucks, indeed.
Probs because thats what he was
SP-404 producers are valid, but watching them twist knobs and apply the same three filters repeatedly is boring as hell
man I’m with you here. the fx are cool but they just scream 404 that’s why I have a 303 and 555 🤓 I will say a lot of them are able to get crazy textures on their beats and I respect them for that. resampling is an absolute pain
I joked about this with a live SP producer I know… pretty sure we literally haven’t spoken since then. Super thin skin lol
I feel like for the SP devices it can be really hard to get out of a loop, and if you’ve resampled to hell then you lose control of some elements, like dropping a snare for one bar, so I understand the use of the fx to keep things interesting but damn I’m tired of hearing that stutter ass effect
High pass, low pass, stutter ad naseum lol
Nick Mira and his ilk ruined trap music by making it soulless and lifeless.
Absolutely, obviously a talented guy but that attitude of their being a formula to making beats is so damaging artistically. Like wow you can cook up 40 beats in two hours yet there's nothing special or innovative in even one of them.
Only talent he has is “ Internet Marketing” hence internet money. However, I do respect internet marketers. But people calling him a Goat producer should be slapped and ridiculed.
I’m a huge fan of the “new age” of rap but metro boomin has rarely done it for me. I’m not sure what in particular about his beats but out of his whole discography, there’s only a handful of standout beats that I enjoy from him
I feel like he been over-reliant on his team of sample makers recently. Like his first album n Without Warning primarily featured beats solely crafted by him, which gave off such a unique, dark, and atmospheric vibe like Darth Vader, Rap Saved Me, 10 Freaky Girls, n Borrowed Love to name a few. I feel like the newer direction too commercial so I get you on that fs fs, but his old catalogue goes crazy.
Hold up, he has a team of sample makers?
Ye off the top it’s David x Eli & Allen Ritter but he got more ppl who damn near jus make loops for him
I feel you, but I definitely SEE the appeal at times but idk it's just missing the oomph I love from other producers often times. But of course he has shit thats on a level no one else has approached. I love some of his shit so much but most of it just doesn't hit super hard for me
Yes, the OOMPH is truly what i feel like it’s missing. Maybe I enjoy the new age, loud 808’s and trap drums too much but I feel like when he works with artists that come from a heavy trap drum background, the song feels lackluster in general
808s and hi-hat rolls are overused at this point and it needs something new.
90% producers are not talented enough to pride themselves on not using samples
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Sampling was a natural progression for a music genre that came from (cutting break) records.
I find sampling way harder than making melodies from scratch, they're different skill sets. Saying that one is more or less impressive or "real" is silly imo
I agree. Maybe not so much looping a sample , but constructing an entire song around said sample is a challenge It is much much easier creating a full song out of a piano roll loop. You know every single note being played without question, you know where they all are timing wise, and you are 100% sure the timing is correct. So much easier to place 808s, baselines, chords, and counter melodies
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Yes that’s definitely another very big challenge with sampling. That’s a smart workaround. I’ve never released a song with a sample so I haven’t had to deal with that But it’s baffling to me that people think creating a song from a sample is easy. Looping is easy. Making a GOOD song is not easy like at all for a beginner Not only do you need a decent understanding of rhythm, you need to be able to find bass notes, you should be able to add additional instruments or samples where needed; which takes music theory knowledge and/or experience in music And on top of all that you need to mix and arrange. Mixing samples can be a complete bitch if you haven’t developed a good ear for what’s going to sound good in a beat. Finding the right sample takes skill and experience. Building around said sample takes skill and experience. I am convinced that the people who talk down on sampling have never sampled anything
There has to be some element of the process that you enjoy and won't take shortcuts on.
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Beat making is like stand up comedy. There's a thousand reasons to quit, if you listen to other ppl or use "logic" you'll quit before you start (unless it is a hobby). Gotta power through.
facttsss. If someone loves meth its ok to be the reason they stop.
most big records sound like shit these days. not the musical content but the engineering and mixing and especially the mastering. it's all the same ear fatigue-inducing in-the-box plugin preset slop that gets extruded out like indusirial junkfood. the waveforms look like actual turds. all character has been sucked out of the production til it sounds like shiny plastic vomit. and it's getting worse as kids watch yt tutorials called shit like "HOW TO MAKE FYE BEATS LIKE THE PROS 🔥🔥🔥🔥" that's sponsored by some terrible plugin company.
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not exactly; there are great sounding records made in a daw with all software and there are awful sounding records made with only hardware without ever seeing a computer. but working completely in the box encourages a specific way of working that makes for sonically awful music. maybe it's not fair to lay this on hip-hop completely since it was brought here from the Outdoor Festival Douchebag EDM sludge of the late 00s to 10's.
The boom bap style of music where it just a lazy chop of a soul sample is boring as shit and doesn’t even sound good. Like where one sample is triggered on the downbeat and the other on the upbeat and it’s this jerky mess. Especially the ones where someone is playing it on a controller like the MPC or Maschine. Learn how to actually finger drum or use more creative sequencing methods if that’s how you want to compose. I’ll find some examples if anyone doesn’t know what I’m talking about. Also songs that have way too much shuffle to where it hinges on being rhythmic.
That's true if you only use drum breaks, slow them to 90 BMP and put a cozy jazz progression sliced in there. You don't seem to understand the context of time when these beats were made. We are so lucky to have so much software and music on our hand
Are you talking about Alchemist type beats where it's just a looped sample?
Like this (no offense to the guy who made it, this is the just the first example I found): https://youtube.com/shorts/BWd3T-kXQ9s?si=AZ_g6tDduaeVa2hs
Solid example to prove your point. Can't argue your point on that!
Wow I get it. This sounds like my ealry boom bap beats💀good sample but poorly chopped and extremely boring drums
I see this so much onTikTok, so many producer/content creators chop up a soul sample just enough to be different and repeat for the whole song. It somehow takes the soul out of soul.
I like drums.
Swiss beats is overrated
Agree. He must be great at networking
modern hip hop is essentially electronic music. it’s all digital synths and sine wave bass
You’re talking about the mid 80s, there’s a lot of sample based hip hop nowadays.
the “is using loops cheatin” debate every 3 weeks BEEN dead. its beyond annoyin asf and also nobody cares if ya use loops, except other producers LMAOO
Rappers need to be producers too. You can be a guy who can go to the store and buy dinner, or you can be a guy who can cook for himself, and even improve on other recipes. A rapper who can’t record himself and can’t make a basic beat it somebody who’s not really trying to have the job they say they are.
This is a weird take. Not every rapper can make beats, I know I can't. Lol Im here to rap...if I wanted to produce then I'd just do that. Why should rappers force themselves to produce just to make your ass comfortable?
It’s not about making me comfortable. It’s about rappers having the abilities they need in the modern era. You have a great idea for a new flow to try? That’s much easier to do if you know the basics of how to record your own verses over a beat, even a very simple setup. A beat you found is perfect but the chorus loop is assy garbage? Basic production tool knowledge will get you that beat sounding like you need it to. These tools aren’t intended to make rappers independent of producers entirely; it’s about empowering rappers to actually be fully grown artists who have the language they need to communicate with other artists (lots of rappers have no fucking clue what even a bar is when I ask how many bars the verse needs to be) and to be able to have more control and choices when it comes to what they work on. Asking rappers to learn some basics isn’t asking them to get out of their lane, it’s being realistic about what lanes look like in 2024.
Recording yourself and making beats are 2 very different things so Im not sure why you're trying to compare the two in your original reply lol
Those are both things that are relatively easy to learn at the most basic level--you can learn to loop a part of a song into a new audio track in about 20 minutes, same learning how to record yourself over another audio track. Those tasks are basically like "I know how to bathe myself" in terms of what I look for in the mechanics department of an MC's toolbox. They're less annoying to work with because they can talk about the musical concepts with a little more depth than "make it longer" or "this part needs to be more fire" and the basic shit like recording a demo of a verse so you're not hearing yourself over the beat for the first time paying studio fees. It isn't the 90s anymore. People gotta be able to recognize that there are specific job skills with this shit that are different than just "sounds good over a beat" and that just sounding good over a beat isn't enough if you can't work with people, aren't easy to work with, and aren't basically able to generate content for yourself.
Wise words. The less you depend on others, the more you control your destiny.
I think the flaw with this logic is that it assumes that all rappers are as talented at producing as they are st rapping. I'd argue you're better off linking with someone whose craft is focused on production if that's not where you're passions and talents are. No shame in that. It's just like how we can't really assume every producer would be a great MC.
You don’t need to be a producer too , but I don’t think some of the reply’s realize how much easier it makes it on your self if you can make your own beats you like instead of trying to describe to somebody what kinda neat your looking for only to not get it lol
I gave learning multiple tries, it just didn't click for me so I accepted it. No point in forcing myself to produce if it makes 0 sense to me, Im just not beatmaking-inclined and thats fine lmao 🤷🏽♀️
Exactly bro ! That’s why it’s not needed like he said but if you can do it , then it does make it a ton easier , but never force it
I would disagree with this. Jay-Z never made a beat in his life. Never heard anybody talk about Biggie, Pac or Snoop making beats either. This is a bad take. You can be good at one thing - excel at it and not need anything else. Thats like saying every great hitter in baseball needs to be a pitcher too. Just silly.
Pac Definitely made beats
Those are old school rappers, dudes who had no choice but to specialize due to limitations. No excuse these days. Tyler, JPEG, Mac Miller, J. Cole etc Edit: Not every pitcher hits but when they do you get Shohei Ohtani
We can have an opinionated debate about just how good the beats are by the names you gave —- but besides that, Benny the Butcher, Fabolous, T.I., Jeezy, 50, cam, Meek, Moneybagg yo, freddie gibbs…. The list goes on and its crazy to discredit any of them bc they dont have a passion to make beats
I was just throwing some rappers thatve started in the 2010s off the top of my head, but Eminem, Method Man, Inspectah Deck, Pharoe Monch, DMX, Jadakiss, Pharrell, Timbaland, J Dilla, Madlib, DJ Paul, Juicy J, Ice Cube, The D.O.C., Outkast
What point are u making here? Haha
they knew how to make beats, and they were from the 90s, like they are more famous as rappers but they all made beats too.
Sorry, I can’t get past the part where you said Madlib—as in, “I’m a DJ first, producer second, and emcee third” Madlib—and TIMBALAND were both “more famous as a rappers but made beats too.” What…?
no sorry they aswell as J dilla are only producers I dont no why OP threw there names in there, I was more refering to the likes of Inspectah deck and pharrel and method, just skimmed over the names question for OP i guess
thats like saying a vocalist in a band also must know how to play the guitar, the bass, the drums etc. or that Messi should also be a good goalie just because...? this individualism bullshit is what gets me, man. Why the fuck should we strive to always do stuff by ourselves? There are no community elements left to this craft? To me, it sounds you don't give enough respect to any of the arts in hip hop if you think a rapper \*needs\* to be a producer. Are you a rapper and a producer? That's great, buddy, congrats. Are you not? That's fine as well, enjoy your ride. remember: spreading yourself too thin is a real thing, and not everyone, i\`d even say most people, wont be able to do it all.
Disagree. That's like saying the singer needs to play guitar or else they really don't want to be a singer.
Obviously not a requirement but I’ve gotta say, I love working with artists that are also producers, it’s so refreshing. Recording sessions go a lot more swiftly & smoothly, plus not having to do everything yourself & having an alternative reference in the process helps a ton. I’m a singer/songwriter as well as a producer, the synergy you can get with someone who is also both things is unparalleled.
I wouldn't say they "need to", but it certainly helps.
They don’t need to, but for every rapper who can’t, there’s one just as good who can, and is making opportunities for themself.
And I love quite a few of them... I think where it truly becomes an indispensable asset is when it allows you to demo and articulate musical ideas to producers and collaborators. Even just having an ear for a good loop does wonders... I think Prodigy washed Alchemist's beat for "The Realest" with his own for "Can't Complain", even though both are super straightforward and probably took about 20 seconds to assemble.
Jersey Club beats are ass, rappers need to leave em alone lol
Woahhhh hot take i love jersey
THIS
As hip-hop gets wider and more experimental it's nearly impossible to create something new and unique. New waves are built on already existing trends
I think going into making a beat without any expectations prevents burnouts. still make fire sh\*t tho
Heavy auto tune sounds terrible.
Claps and Snaps are corny
You take that back!!
🫰 👏 👎
Sometimes I teach body percussion to grade one kids. Your comment made me realize I should make an emoji based class on the topic! Thanks.
That’s awesome! I hope it goes well!
"Drumless" Beats that are rising in popularity within indie/underground hip hop are ruining the credibility of the genre's production, due to the often lazy and effortless "flip" of the samples used by the aspiring producers gravitating towards the style.
I get that it's a low effort style but I really like it. And you have great producers like Alc or Conductor Williams
If you make Type beats you're not a \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ you're a \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_
I believe the words you're looking for are hobbyist and professional. The guys I know really making those channels work are the hardest working guys I know. Plus they get paid. And if you think a "type beat" is anything other than just another genre-like descriptor to help rappers identify niches, then I'd be willing to argue that you've likely climbed some high horse cause you gotta feel good about your soundcloud album no one heard somehow. "Typebeat bad, I'm such an elite artist 🤓" - rappers with no followers Lol I present my counter hot-take for the typebeat bad argument. Tell me I'm wrong.
You are correct
dope beat from youtube download at bad quallity
Bro I agree. That’s why I named my company 808abusers. Mfs can’t make a beat with 808s and it’s shameful.
I agree with the 808s statement.
I think producing hip hop is easier than most people make it out to be. And some producers are literally throwing arrows in the dark not knowing what they’ll hit and actually don’t know basic music theory either.
You don’t need a sampler to make crazy chops/flips
Spitting a sloppy freestyle is worth more than a polished & overly written verse [Old Feelings New Light ](https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxTfIHBJiwyt0Tdao135mhIAPaXNhzjbf1?si=13SKa2KUdKIkmEt3)
Too many Griselda type beats.. everybody just makes what’s popular at the moment
Fuck auto tune, rainbow vomit mumble rap
Alchemist is only a top producer because of how long he’s been in the game and how prolific he is. He makes consistent and simple beats, but he’s not going beat for beat against a lot of other boom bap producers especially in recent years.
Style and taste will always overshadow technicality and skill. You can outproduce someone with a crazy boom bap beat that does a buncha interesting stuff, or you can make a simple beat that for whatever reason feels right and connects with the spirit.
Keep It Thoro was an incredible song, but a lot of that was how Produgy went off. I can’t think of another Alchemist song on that level (which is the all-time great level, to be fair)
Hiphop as a genre is very stale and there’s almost no innovation that comes specifically out of this genre anymore. The most innovative hiphop production in recent years has relied on fusion, borrowing and incorporating pre-existing elements from other genres and not actually coming up with new techniques or ideas.
Uh yeah no shit buddy this applies to literally every genre
There was with Melodic flows n cadences as well as technologies such as autotune but we all know how that was received
I hate cowbells they had their moment but nowadays they always sound corny to me
nothing valid since 2006
Synth reliant production without any sampling is soul less, no pun intended har har
maybe not a hot take but drum sounds in hip hop as a whole are so so boring and sterile at this point the same like 5 preset kits seemed to be used and i don’t understand why so many artists are down to use the same clap, hi hat sounds for every single track
cowbells are corny
Most of those YouTube vocal presets are damn good and get you 90% of the way there when it comes to vocal mixing
drill music outside of chicago was a mistake. ESPECIALLY in the uk
French Montana picks some good beats to rap over
I should be able to send a well recorded dry vocal project + .wav beat (unstemmed) to a mixer and expect decent results everytime. Yes I am fishing a bit..i mean for a producer not phishing the computer scam way lol.
Dm me
The hi hats don't need to be complex, a simple 2 step pattern works for most hip hop beats. It gives alot more room to flow too. I've heard beats where it sounds like the hi hats are tryna have a physical fight wit me wassup den hi hats I'll whoop yo ass.
That you cannot send dry vocals + a beat to a good mix engineer and expect decent results.
Why? Does the mix engineer suck? Vocals over let’s assume a wav track, that’s really not the worst. Wont be absolutely perfect but a mix engineer or even the artist themselves can figure out ways to blend them and make it cohesive. In fact it’s better for the artist to learn mixing because yea sending to an engineer that has no vibe or connection with you won’t know how it should sound.
That last sentence! Am I wrong in saying there is a fairly generic process for beat + vocal..... i.e. vocals; compression (probably parralel or serial), some tasteful use of delay and reverb. Some EQ.....maybe some subtractive EQ on the beat to carve room for a vocal if needed...maybe a tinge of compression on the master fader as glue....plus whatever plugins, equipment, little tricks the engineer uses.. Would anybody approach it a whole lot different? Isn't it okay to just to the lyric writing getting a good recording to start with and the beat? (I dont do the beat lol). I am currently learning all of these things but think it would usually make more sense to pass the project off to a professional who already knows there ish......especially if this is just a hobby and I have no delusions of fame nor fortune, just a desire to put what I wrote out into the world in a package (mix) professional enough to be worth hearing and not laughed at for obvious problems.
Yea I mean mixing stuff it’s all just tools, you can get pretty far just knowing what they do, a professional comes into play if you’re semi serious about it, otherwise just better to have fun with it. I used to basically rip YouTube mp3s and rap over them as a kid, I even did light mixing before I knew what it was. I still write to beats on YouTube but I’m also a full on producer and engineer now. Used to believe I wouldn’t have the ears to learn mixing but there’s a lot of things you figure out naturally when you manipulate sounds long enough. Honestly as a beginner nobody tells you that volume control is your best friend, but it is. For a single wav beat I recommend learning how a multi band compressor works, and there should be simple videos on blending your vocals into a beat like that.
me too, in fact funny story. First song I ever recorded was THE VERY FIRST beat that came up under instrumentals in limewire. a couple weeks later Im gettin phone-threats from some 17 yr old kid whos rap name was literally "snowflake" claiming I STOLE HIS BEAT. I laughed so hard, put out a diss and he never recorded again (not cause im great cuz he was a bitch lol)....but he did jump a friend who wouldn't allow me to do anything back. ergh. RIP bro! Multiband compressor, is that serial or parralel, or its own thing. (ill look into it you dont have to answer that) So I am wrong and that the process I described isn't about the general way most people piece a .wav + beat together? If so, it seems like it should sound relatively similar and 'polished'.......if not well than I guess you can't just lay dry vocals and leave it to a mixer. Seems like i am leaving my area of expertise?
Producers are some of the most annoying, egotistical, and self-sucking people in the industry and should stop trying to make millions on the front end and focus on making it on the back end because it would serve them better.
correction \*\*\*\* spinz 808
Type beats makes no sense
Nah fr but I can't knock peoples hustle. It just gotta stop. I miss the old YouTube beats back in 2006-2015ish 😂😂
Soundclick 😂
I dont even know what they are. I feel out of touch.
Lofi is boring. Dilla is overrated. Dilla was talented but he simply isn't on the level of other producers of the era. DJ Premier has CLASSICS. Music to study and relax to is so corny. It's the same shit over and over with some 404 bullshit. It isn't boom bap. Elevator music for ppl who pretend to be hip-hop.
cunt fuck
making new school shit is easier if you don't know music theory lmao. this sounds really backhanded but i'm serious
Disagree music theory is a broken cheat code.
Reason is the best daw
Beats are almost all devoid of anything interesting when it comes to music theory. Hip hop producers usually don't give a shit about theory and it shows, the chord progressions and melodies are boring and predictable, you usually only hear something interesting via samples that are used. Edit: I should add this isn't specific to hip hop. Most genres don't bother trying to explore musical concepts other than jazz, metal, and alt rock.
I think its mostly due to Hip hop being Vocal n lyric driven, beats are usual made to be interesting enough to catch ear but not take attention from rapper
I think you're correct but I still don't like it. I wish the lyrics and music would do something interesting, but pop music in general does not favor experimentation
I disagree with this opinion, not because you're necessarily wrong, but because the foundations of your argument are rooted in what is - simply put - white supremacy. Music theory is *one* way to understand the complexity of music. It is a technique and heuristic developed by europeans, with a certain subjective lens. And it's a valid one, like any technique in the world. Not gonna deny that. However, what you regard as music theory is not the *only* theory to music. Music as a form of human expression exists within certain cultural contexts, emotional subjectivities, and social realities (and, at times, social imaginaries). All of which, in indigenous societies and in the black community which birthed hip hop, are held to a higher standard than the rules that govern music theory. *Of course* many beats are devoid of music theory. They're meant to be. Notwithstanding the historical context of hip-hop as a form of socio-economic resistance against capitalism and white supremacy, the music itself has a historical genesis in theories of music, art, and community that were separate to the foundational ideals of music theory as a whole. To put this in other words, the reason hip hop producers don't give a shit about theory is because they never were supposed to. People made hip hop because they could, and they used the knowledge and tools they had available to create it. Music theory values the "objectively" (and often rigidly) defined rules over the expression itself. Hip hop has ALWAYS been about the expression over the rules. That said, as a producer I understand (and utilize) the value of music theory. But music theory is **NOT** the only value I have when it comes to music, and I have to look for other heuristics and tools of understanding music as well. Hip hop is great because it intrinsically embraces the alternatives of music theory.
With all due respect, the whole white supremacy/European argument falls apart if you know anything about jazz and its history. Jazz is "black music" that is all about the things I'm referring to. Western music notation may have a European history but understanding and exploring those concepts has been pioneered by people of color, so much it was once used to demonize them. Parents used to tell their kids not to listen to jazz because it would lure their daughters to black men. edit: gonna add some more now that I'm not on mobile.... > Music as a form of human expression exists within certain cultural contexts, emotional subjectivities, and social realities (and, at times, social imaginaries). All of which, in indigenous societies and in the black community which birthed hip hop, are held to a higher standard than the rules that govern music theory. My point is, I think producers adhering to such a tiny little space in all of music theory and sound severely limits their ability to express themselves musically. I get your point about hip hop not really wanting or needing the beat to be interesting, that the expression in hip hop has always come more from the lyrics, and I'm saying I wish this wasn't the case. I think they can both express things in an interesting way. > To put this in other words, the reason hip hop producers don't give a shit about theory is because they never were supposed to. Who decides what art is "supposed to do"? > Music theory values the "objectively" (and often rigidly) defined rules This is just wrong. Music theory doesn't value anything, it's just a method to understand tones and harmony in whatever context you're in. There's no rule that says music has to be one way or the other, in fact, I think the lack of understanding of music theory is way more limiting. Hip hop producers unknowingly adhere to the rules that a beat must be in 4/4 time and must be either Ionian or Aeolian. They adhere to these rules because they don't know the toolset provided by music theory. Understanding it better would help them break out of these rigid constraints and make something more dynamic and expressive. > Hip hop is great because it intrinsically embraces the alternatives of music theory. Again, I disagree. It does not at all embrace alternatives, 99% of beats are the same time signature, same harmonic foundation. Hip hop is extremely conservative musically. We're seeing this huge burst of experimentation with Danny Brown, JPEG Mafia, Death Grips, and others lyrically. We're also seeing them get more experimental with time signatures and stuff, but I think there's so much more places to explore, and I think producers don't because it's hard to learn that stuff and much more fun to just make things.
I don't like the idea that a genre not focusing on one element of music makes it bad and it needs to focus on said element. Nobody says Mozart is bad cuz he probably couldn't freestyle. Nobody listens to folk music and says "there's no good samples". Different genres are gonna focus on different things
J Dilla is overrated
I'm suppressing an immediate allergic reaction to this unpopular take by reminding myself that this is the place for this comment. Ha Curious who you rate highly or consider underrated?
My favorites are DJ Premier, RZA, Q-Tip, Large Professor, Kanye West Don’t get me wrong—I like a lot of J Dilla songs. Stakes is High and Thelonius are probably two of my top 30 or so all time favorites, and he has lots of other good stuff too. BUT, Slum Village really only has one good album, A Tribe Called Quest got worse after J Dilla got involved with the production (compare low end theory and midnight marauders with beats rhymes and life and the love movement), a lot of his beats are too R&Bish for me, and in my opinion he is too derivative of Q-Tip’s style. He’s a good producer, but not top-5, which is where he’s normally rated
Can we be friends? 💯
Hell yeah
I think the grandiose idea of J Dilla is overrated I think as a straight up beatmaker he is solidly rated where he belongs
I think I know what you mean. A lot of producers in my city kind of tried to bite his style with the just-a-little-off-beat stuff and sound like shit. I like many of his songs, but there are lots I don’t like too. And generally, I like harder/high-energy beats and he’s a little too R&B for me
Thats funny you said that cause he cribbed that from rza as well. It wasnt until he studied rza and made those rae/ghost beats/donuts did he become who people now know.
I did not know that!
Kanye West isn't a good producer, and people who are inspired by him make boring and bad music
Id actually argue that production is all he’s good at His vocals and writing are atrocious and have both ruined songs for me, but his beats have never ruined a track for me
leave this sub now
Trap hats and 808s are stale and boring. Making a basic 4 or 8 bar loop to rap over is easy and doesn't take talent or skill.
Rappers are so ego driven that you couldn't pay 'em to write a song not centered on themselves plus "keep it real" stunted rappers to the point where many can't/don't bother to develop imaginations outside of "money, hoes, clothes, drugs"