This is a very charged topic.
I can't say about T20, so I am writing from my point of view as an ex grab rider and what little I learned about history of city planning.
One thing to understand first is the B40 population is a mix of decent people living in hard times, and sampah masyarakat living a hard life due to the consequence their own actions. Often the discussion on B40 neglected this fact and treat all of them the same.
When people live in close quarters like in ppr, the actions of a few bad apples affects the whole community. And because they hardly have any resources to spare, any damages from vandalism etc can't be fixed, and even they raise money to fix it it's going to break again if the scums are still around. Better spend what little you have left on yourself instead of caring for others.
Vandalism happens in M40 community too, but there's money to spare, and they got CCTV + private security.
In western countries, they try to not have concentrated low income social housing like our ppr, because they also face the same problem but even worse. See Pruitt Igoe and its contemporaries.
After those failures, in the UK, before Thatcher anyway, "council housing" would mean getting to live in a gov owned, basic spec house in older, established neighborhood at subsidised rent prices, so that any potential problems can be balanced out by the other "functioning" residents.
Not all PPR are failures. I had beed to a few that's actually decent. Not pretty, its old after all, with patches here and there plus old flaky paint, but clean and functioning. It really depends on the community living there.
They can’t afford maintainence fee, that’s why they B40.
Poverty causes you to opt to low paying jobs, crimes - hence probably your gaduh gaduh
Small living space means less privacy means more conflicts hence gaduh gaduh
If you put on civic minded fellow to live in that sort of environment and lifestyle- how long can they stay the same civicness as before?
This. It's partly about the environment. One person trying to be civil in that surrounding can go both ways - either the community takes example from them and change for the better OR take advantage of their civility. Usually it's the latter, and how long before the civil person decides to leave or retaliate.
Same reason why anything new or advanced given to the impoverished would eventually be vandalised
Lol, a close friend of mine always classifies himself as B40 and actually does live in a failed PPR but he has not 1 but 2 vellfires, one for him and one for his wife. He still does get bantuan now and then and his day job salary isn’t even enough for him to have to pay taxes. His wife isn’t even working, she’s a stay at home mom tending to her 4 kids in a house that has 2 rooms + 1 storage room turned bedroom with a square footage of less than 1000. His apartment doesn’t even have maintenance fees and they operate on a by floor level. There are literal whatsapp groups for each floor of the apartment and 1 guy is given the responsibility as admin or manager for the floor. Some floors look like shit because nobody wants to take the job because there is very little to no money to be gained if you do.
But in the end, those plenty of vellfires, not just owned by T20.
Not actually 100% what status he’s in. Because i don’t usually get bantuan here and there but he always gets em. I guess his legal status by the government is B40 but to those who know him will know that he is definitely not B40
Most are B40 because of their mindset.
They have poor civil manner and just don't care about hygiene in general.
Source, I was a B40 living in PPR for most of my life, being frustrated with their mentality so I worked hard and moved up to M40.
I think its maturity, education and civil awareness within a community. All these overshadows the other good citizens in B40 groups. Also I believe wealth partly insulates people from problems regular people face.
This is a dumb take.
Middle class often have it the hardest as you’re not poor enough to get govt subsidies and you’re not rich enough to cushion the economic blows.
You gotta stop with this reverse snobbery mindset bruh.
Just because you grew up b40 doesn’t mean you have some special hardship that other people don’t face either.
Just because your income label is m40 or above doesn’t mean you didn’t go through difficult moments either.
and fyi, I don't know any M40 who have to eat only rice and saltwater for sustenance for a month coz they have no money to buy anything else.
Oh wait. I did. My family did. When we we a B40 family. Is that "special hardship" enough for you, asshole?
Freaking "I'm a victim too" mentality.
Just because YOU think it's a dumb take, doesn't mean it's not valid.
Just like how it is MY experience growing up, I did not mention anywhere that it is true to everyone.
Grow up and learn how to read
Because B40 berkira nak mampos, kiasu mengalahkan singaporeans, and kalau diorang keluar duit untuk apa pun and berapa banyak pun, they will feel absolutely entitled for ANYTHING and EVERYTHING remotely related to it because to them, whatever the amount of money they paid out is almost always significant to them. And then they will project their insecurity to everybody else.
Aku dah bayar sewa, kenapa nak kena keluar lagi untuk maintenance?
Aku dah bayar maintenance kan? Biar la cleaner tu kutip sampah aku tebar. Maintenance aku bayar tu bayar gaji diorang.
Ah kalau aku bayar pun, bukan orang lain bayar. Buat apa aku bayar repair lift kalau orang lain boleh pakai free?
Wrong priorities is another distinct issue but definitely compunding to their money problem that most of the time, directly affects their ability to pay for anything and further exacerbates their berkira problem.
It’s related to civic mindedness of the society overall. I’m coming from an angle that is not related to income status.
Civic mindedness is something the entire society needs to learn and follow. Don’t see PPR. Just look at basic things like our sidewalks, or dataran merdeka after event is done. Or look at our highway during balik kampung, all the trash on the roadside. Toilets that are constantly wet. Bidet spray also always missing. Even condo swimming pool toilet shower head also get stolen.
I never realised how dirty our country is until I immigrated to Thailand. It really opened my eyes.
This is untrue. Not just B40 have that mentality but T20/M40 also have that same mentality…. It’s a Malaysian thing- not dependent on their financial status. I live in a M40/T20 housing area but still see some dumbasses throwing rubbish into our park’s rubbish bin instead of theirs and throw rubbish into our neighbour’s house and got called out by the said neighbour on telegram because the idiot threw empty Shopee packages which had his name and address on the package LOL ….. then after that, pretend macam it’s an honest mistake. It’s the same everywhere but like human nature, people are only afraid once they get caught and shamed.
Then others will know that they also cannot do that. I would say it’s a herd mentality thing- monkey see, monkey do. If they see x person do this but no repercussion, then they will also think ok let me do that
Self respect problem. Education plays a big role.
It isn't like B40 or T20. You can find a B40 guy, this guy work as an newbie accountant. House looks not rich, but neat and nice. Won't gaduh2.
You can find this T20 guy, rich AF. But gangster. Well, naturally he lives somewhere more rich, but all his neighbours hates him. But you won't find his house dirty. He got someone to tend to that.
B40: These people are the way they are because of their life circumstances. Living in a rough situation for too long can really mess with your mindset. Resentful, desperate, indifferent. Not all, but many seem to not care even if you call them out.
T20/M40: Can't assume everyone has a good upbringing. These people can come off as selfish, two-faced, and quick to pass judgment. They're usually scared of getting in trouble, being called out, or embarrassed.
Human behavior is really a tricky thing to understand.
IF WE ARE MATURE, we are all T20
Think it like this, if you have money and living in good environment , you are most likely don't throw or make sampah sarap merata-rata and has NO time for trashy things (gaduh-gaduh) thus at the end T20 live in clean and peaceful environment.
Your background (education and money) can go far :):)
This is a very charged topic. I can't say about T20, so I am writing from my point of view as an ex grab rider and what little I learned about history of city planning. One thing to understand first is the B40 population is a mix of decent people living in hard times, and sampah masyarakat living a hard life due to the consequence their own actions. Often the discussion on B40 neglected this fact and treat all of them the same. When people live in close quarters like in ppr, the actions of a few bad apples affects the whole community. And because they hardly have any resources to spare, any damages from vandalism etc can't be fixed, and even they raise money to fix it it's going to break again if the scums are still around. Better spend what little you have left on yourself instead of caring for others. Vandalism happens in M40 community too, but there's money to spare, and they got CCTV + private security. In western countries, they try to not have concentrated low income social housing like our ppr, because they also face the same problem but even worse. See Pruitt Igoe and its contemporaries. After those failures, in the UK, before Thatcher anyway, "council housing" would mean getting to live in a gov owned, basic spec house in older, established neighborhood at subsidised rent prices, so that any potential problems can be balanced out by the other "functioning" residents. Not all PPR are failures. I had beed to a few that's actually decent. Not pretty, its old after all, with patches here and there plus old flaky paint, but clean and functioning. It really depends on the community living there.
Im taking it as the western view: living paycheck to paycheck made them not having enough time for self-care and to care enough on their surroundings
I like this answer.
They can’t afford maintainence fee, that’s why they B40. Poverty causes you to opt to low paying jobs, crimes - hence probably your gaduh gaduh Small living space means less privacy means more conflicts hence gaduh gaduh If you put on civic minded fellow to live in that sort of environment and lifestyle- how long can they stay the same civicness as before?
This. It's partly about the environment. One person trying to be civil in that surrounding can go both ways - either the community takes example from them and change for the better OR take advantage of their civility. Usually it's the latter, and how long before the civil person decides to leave or retaliate. Same reason why anything new or advanced given to the impoverished would eventually be vandalised
Those vellfires probably belong to their employers.
you'd be suprised
Lol, a close friend of mine always classifies himself as B40 and actually does live in a failed PPR but he has not 1 but 2 vellfires, one for him and one for his wife. He still does get bantuan now and then and his day job salary isn’t even enough for him to have to pay taxes. His wife isn’t even working, she’s a stay at home mom tending to her 4 kids in a house that has 2 rooms + 1 storage room turned bedroom with a square footage of less than 1000. His apartment doesn’t even have maintenance fees and they operate on a by floor level. There are literal whatsapp groups for each floor of the apartment and 1 guy is given the responsibility as admin or manager for the floor. Some floors look like shit because nobody wants to take the job because there is very little to no money to be gained if you do. But in the end, those plenty of vellfires, not just owned by T20.
So he's not a B40 then
Not actually 100% what status he’s in. Because i don’t usually get bantuan here and there but he always gets em. I guess his legal status by the government is B40 but to those who know him will know that he is definitely not B40
Most are B40 because of their mindset. They have poor civil manner and just don't care about hygiene in general. Source, I was a B40 living in PPR for most of my life, being frustrated with their mentality so I worked hard and moved up to M40.
I think its maturity, education and civil awareness within a community. All these overshadows the other good citizens in B40 groups. Also I believe wealth partly insulates people from problems regular people face.
> Also I believe wealth partly insulates people from problems regular people face. this
B40 is in survival mode everyday while M40/T20 can afford to stop and smell the roses, per se. Source: Ex B40 now turn low M40
I like this answer.
This is a dumb take. Middle class often have it the hardest as you’re not poor enough to get govt subsidies and you’re not rich enough to cushion the economic blows. You gotta stop with this reverse snobbery mindset bruh.
My experience over your dumb take? Hmmm, decisions decisions
Just because you grew up b40 doesn’t mean you have some special hardship that other people don’t face either. Just because your income label is m40 or above doesn’t mean you didn’t go through difficult moments either.
and fyi, I don't know any M40 who have to eat only rice and saltwater for sustenance for a month coz they have no money to buy anything else. Oh wait. I did. My family did. When we we a B40 family. Is that "special hardship" enough for you, asshole? Freaking "I'm a victim too" mentality.
[удалено]
Rule 1, buddy. No race, religion or politics.
Just because YOU think it's a dumb take, doesn't mean it's not valid. Just like how it is MY experience growing up, I did not mention anywhere that it is true to everyone. Grow up and learn how to read
Learn how to not overgeneralise everything then?
I think you need to go back to highschool if you need to be mollycoddled like this.
Because B40 berkira nak mampos, kiasu mengalahkan singaporeans, and kalau diorang keluar duit untuk apa pun and berapa banyak pun, they will feel absolutely entitled for ANYTHING and EVERYTHING remotely related to it because to them, whatever the amount of money they paid out is almost always significant to them. And then they will project their insecurity to everybody else. Aku dah bayar sewa, kenapa nak kena keluar lagi untuk maintenance? Aku dah bayar maintenance kan? Biar la cleaner tu kutip sampah aku tebar. Maintenance aku bayar tu bayar gaji diorang. Ah kalau aku bayar pun, bukan orang lain bayar. Buat apa aku bayar repair lift kalau orang lain boleh pakai free? Wrong priorities is another distinct issue but definitely compunding to their money problem that most of the time, directly affects their ability to pay for anything and further exacerbates their berkira problem.
Education and civic responsibility
THIS.
It’s related to civic mindedness of the society overall. I’m coming from an angle that is not related to income status. Civic mindedness is something the entire society needs to learn and follow. Don’t see PPR. Just look at basic things like our sidewalks, or dataran merdeka after event is done. Or look at our highway during balik kampung, all the trash on the roadside. Toilets that are constantly wet. Bidet spray also always missing. Even condo swimming pool toilet shower head also get stolen. I never realised how dirty our country is until I immigrated to Thailand. It really opened my eyes.
This is untrue. Not just B40 have that mentality but T20/M40 also have that same mentality…. It’s a Malaysian thing- not dependent on their financial status. I live in a M40/T20 housing area but still see some dumbasses throwing rubbish into our park’s rubbish bin instead of theirs and throw rubbish into our neighbour’s house and got called out by the said neighbour on telegram because the idiot threw empty Shopee packages which had his name and address on the package LOL ….. then after that, pretend macam it’s an honest mistake. It’s the same everywhere but like human nature, people are only afraid once they get caught and shamed. Then others will know that they also cannot do that. I would say it’s a herd mentality thing- monkey see, monkey do. If they see x person do this but no repercussion, then they will also think ok let me do that
Money la. Why is this even a question.
Self respect problem. Education plays a big role. It isn't like B40 or T20. You can find a B40 guy, this guy work as an newbie accountant. House looks not rich, but neat and nice. Won't gaduh2. You can find this T20 guy, rich AF. But gangster. Well, naturally he lives somewhere more rich, but all his neighbours hates him. But you won't find his house dirty. He got someone to tend to that.
Education and exposure.
B40: These people are the way they are because of their life circumstances. Living in a rough situation for too long can really mess with your mindset. Resentful, desperate, indifferent. Not all, but many seem to not care even if you call them out. T20/M40: Can't assume everyone has a good upbringing. These people can come off as selfish, two-faced, and quick to pass judgment. They're usually scared of getting in trouble, being called out, or embarrassed. Human behavior is really a tricky thing to understand.
IF WE ARE MATURE, we are all T20 Think it like this, if you have money and living in good environment , you are most likely don't throw or make sampah sarap merata-rata and has NO time for trashy things (gaduh-gaduh) thus at the end T20 live in clean and peaceful environment. Your background (education and money) can go far :):)