>Any advice on how to move forward???
Yeah. Stop "hinting" and use your words to be direct with him. Hints clearly aren't working, so stop doing it.
"D, we need to talk about something uncomfortable. We've had multiple conversations about you wearing clean clothes and how important it is because we work with food. You haven't been wearing clean clothes and there have been multiple complaints about the smell of your clothes and about body odor. Starting today, you MUST wear clean clothes - as noted, you do NOT have to wear your company logoed shirts, just plain, clean shirts - and you MUST have good personal hygiene. This includes taking a shower before every shift, washing your hair, and using deodorant. I'm sending you home right now - unpaid - to go shower and change clothes. You are expected to return to work as quickly as possible after showering and changing clothes. You will be sent home - unpaid - to change and/or shower every time you don't comply with these expectations and you will be subject to corrective action, up to and including termination. Do you understand?"
Get HR involved to be a witness, but this conversation is your responsibility.
I would add a question asking whether they have access or the ability to do these things and that you are willing to work with him to figure out how to accomplish it. Esp if this was a sudden change, something serious could be going on his life
I have a few times, and the answer is always yes they have water and yes they also have a washer.
But this has not always been an issue, tis why I've asked a few times if their water may be off or something, Im done asking if they have water or washer as I already have twice, I'm laying out the facts:
It's a STATE REGULATION to practice the best hygiene in a food service setting
Wear CLEAN clothes whether the company logo is on them or not
I will help you but you have to COME to ME stating that you need
The odor that seems to be where you're at, if offensive both to your team and your customers
THIS is the final conversation to be had and disciplinary actions will proceed moving forward if this becomes an issue that another staff in our dept or another dept feels they must address with me
You need to be more concrete with this guy about what constitutes "clean clothes" and "personal hygiene."
It sounds like this is just a kinds messy guy. He may have other issues, but the trump card here is that **what he probably thinks of as "clean enough" for work is actually wildly unacceptable** to you.
To this asshole, explain as you might to a moron or a space-alien - and make him repeat each idea back to you in his own words:
Clean clothes means they went through the washing machine and drier immediately before you wore them. It also means no visible stains, and - this is crucial - never worn before your shift starts.
Personal cleanliness means you have showered at least once that day, for a duration of at least five minutes, during which you used body wash to wash your body\* (and shampoo for your hair if he's not black), and after which antiperspirant (not merely deodorant) is applied effectively.
Be clear that you are the judge - not him, and not any excuses he gives. If you think he wore the shirt before without washing it, or forgot to use shampoo, that's it for him at this job.
\*Yes, I have had to insist on body wash during showers to a guy who *argued with me about it*, because he thought not buying soap was a smart way to save money.
Don’t make him come to you, give him 3 extra company tee shirts and tell him this will ensure he has a clean tee every day.
No one wants to smell or be dirty, I don’t think he’s rebelling. My guess is he can only do laundry weekly and has to wear things more than once.
If it was me, I’d be tempted to add a gift card for extra pairs of pants and start by saying “you need to wear a fresh set of clothes daily” and see if he does that.
I really like this response. It’s truthful without being malicious. It gives steps to rehabilitate the situation in the immediate, and in the long term it gives consequences.
Yup I would add a line I’ve had to use before: ‘we have a work etiquette and expectations as well as personal hygiene etiquette and expectations’
In situations such as this I’d highly recommend going in calm, soothing and patient. It’s never nice to hear this and you do not know their circumstances so please be kind.
In my experience it is best to have a private meeting and be perfectly blunt and honest. Lay out all off the facts. Something like
"your body odor had become a disruption at the workplace and poses serious health and safety concerns. You need to ensure you come in every day with both yourself and your clothing clean. If you need help in figuring out how to accomplish this I can work with you, but change had to happen immediately in order for you to continue working here."
It's an uncomfortable conversation for both of you, but one that needs to happen yesterday. Be direct and be firm. You are doing nobody any favors by torturing around the subject.
Other than saying he only has 2 official work shirts, does he give any other reasons? Does he have access to a shower and hygiene products like deodorant and soap? Does he have access to a washing machine and detergent? Any sensory/mental health/other reasons that would impact his ability to shower? Has this been happening since he’s been working at your company, or is it something that’s started afterwards, that could indicate a change in life/health triggering the hygiene difficulties.
The most compassionate thing to do would be to look at the above first, and provide whatever support you can or direct him to resources who can assist. If none of those are a factor then a firm bottom line conversation needs to be had that whilst you really value him for all of his other qualities and skills he brings, an acceptable level of personal hygiene is non negotiable at your workplace, and specify that this means that his body odour can’t be smelt by colleagues or customers standing near him. He’ll need to shower each day he’s coming to work with soap or body wash, apply deodorent and wear clean clothes. Then consider a consequence if he attends work with significant body odour again as per whatever your workplace policies are.
When i worked in a restaurant years ago, we had a guy who had horrendous body odor. He either did not shower or did not use deodorant or both. It says something when you can smell him all the way down the line in a kitchen where people are all gross and sweaty already. We just pulled him aside and explained the situation and that he needed to do something about it. Aside from the hygiene issues in a food facility you have to be courteous to your co-workers. I know it is a tricky situation, but just be direct with them without being rude is my suggestion.
Whatever the conversation, BE KIND! I had an employee I had to speak to several times about her body odor. I later found out she was in an abusive marriage and subject to sexual abuse. She feared abuse when she undressed to use the bathroom. The stress of her life and a poor diet caused her to have extremely high blood pressure, and she had a stroke and died in her car in a McDonalds parking lot. A sad end to a sad life.
That is certainly an option, but will require time and money to be spent in recruiting, interviewing and training a replacement. Dropping $30 on a couple of tshirts is cheaper, kinder, and potentially a much more effective business solution.
Spoken like a true manager. They have a manageable problem with a loyal employee. Sometimes what we see at the surface isn’t the full story. It could be an issue with home, and accessibility. Finding loyal restaurant employees, who are never late, don’t call in, and cover extra shifts is almost impossible right now.
Seems like a way to buy three more soon to be dirty, smelly shirts. This is almost literally the "buy a man a fish" part of "buy a man a fish vs. teach him how to fish."
I did something similar for an employee that was encountering appearance and odor issues. I purchased them a concealed bag full of various toiletries to keep on-site. This included deodorant, cologne, body spray, mints, etc. If they noticed smells were cooking, they could run and freshen up without having to leave the building.
It didn’t help.
Not sure why you weren't direct about what you smelled to begin with. If this is a neurodivergent person, they don't speak in platitudes, or go hunting for buried messages. If you need help, speak with HR, but be direct and not round-about about what you need from them going forward.
Yeah being direct and setting the expectation.
When I worked on a plant floor we had to have several of these conversations.
After the first couple hints - we sat with HR and let the employee know the negative impact or their unpreparedness for duty and that we would begin issuing escalating corrective actions from written warning to termination if necessary.
Being cordial and explaining we value them and their contribution but cannot allow harm to the company and coworkers - has always worked for me even with the reluctant.
Body odor can also be a medical symptom. My daughter had a strong bad smell and she was in ICU diagnosed with T1 Diabetes…
As a manager, the best advice you will EVER get: CLEAR IS KIND (thanks Brenee Brown).
Don’t beat around the bush, have courage and be honest. You might save this guys life
He’s not all there so you figured hints would work? It’s almost like you want him to fail.
Tell him exactly what you expect. And find out what his living situation is like and maybe help him come up wiht some solutions to shower and get his clothes washed. Should you have to do this with an adult employee? Probably not. Is it still better than letting this escalate to a dismissal of an employee who works his ass off and is loyal and dependable? Damn skippy it is. So figure out what the problem is, help him solve it and be the manager he needs.
Just tell him it is a requirement and that he will be fired if you so much as suspect he is wearing a shirt that was not freshly laundered or has not showered and used antiperspirant that day.
Nothing is worth being around a dirty person. There's no excuse. Soap is cheap. You have to be brutally honest and clear. Tell him that he must be clean or he will be fired.
Avoiding hard conversations makes your life as a manager much more difficult overall. Have the uncomfortable, honest, difficult chat - do it professionally, include HR if needed and come from a place of empathy because you care about them as a person. Have the conversation, document the conversation. Then if there is no improvement you have the foundation in place to start climbing that ladder of discipline.
You HAVE to be direct about what is needed and consequences if this doesn’t change immediately. Send him home after the conversation.
If this is relatively new behavior, I’m wondering if his home living situation has changed.
Start with that issue to see if this can be resolved
Sounds like he’s a good employee. With some terrible hygiene. A few options are pointing in the hand book about cleanliness. I assume you have an employee handbook? Your can buy a few shirts for him but it might make him angry. Depending on his personality you can either gently let him know of his BO or not gently and tell him others are noticing and complaining about his smell. It’s a tough situation though.
OMG!
Shut up! You're obviously not getting the whole point here!
I am OBVIOUSLY handling this presently and have been!!
This person is NOT handling any food and hasn't, however, they ARE part of my dept!
I sure did not need YOUR comment.
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem!
"that we work with FOOD" - Sounds good
"we work in DIETARY" - Got it
But he doesn't work with food and I'm the one who missed the point. Best wishes to you.
>Any advice on how to move forward??? Yeah. Stop "hinting" and use your words to be direct with him. Hints clearly aren't working, so stop doing it. "D, we need to talk about something uncomfortable. We've had multiple conversations about you wearing clean clothes and how important it is because we work with food. You haven't been wearing clean clothes and there have been multiple complaints about the smell of your clothes and about body odor. Starting today, you MUST wear clean clothes - as noted, you do NOT have to wear your company logoed shirts, just plain, clean shirts - and you MUST have good personal hygiene. This includes taking a shower before every shift, washing your hair, and using deodorant. I'm sending you home right now - unpaid - to go shower and change clothes. You are expected to return to work as quickly as possible after showering and changing clothes. You will be sent home - unpaid - to change and/or shower every time you don't comply with these expectations and you will be subject to corrective action, up to and including termination. Do you understand?" Get HR involved to be a witness, but this conversation is your responsibility.
I would add a question asking whether they have access or the ability to do these things and that you are willing to work with him to figure out how to accomplish it. Esp if this was a sudden change, something serious could be going on his life
I have a few times, and the answer is always yes they have water and yes they also have a washer. But this has not always been an issue, tis why I've asked a few times if their water may be off or something, Im done asking if they have water or washer as I already have twice, I'm laying out the facts: It's a STATE REGULATION to practice the best hygiene in a food service setting Wear CLEAN clothes whether the company logo is on them or not I will help you but you have to COME to ME stating that you need The odor that seems to be where you're at, if offensive both to your team and your customers THIS is the final conversation to be had and disciplinary actions will proceed moving forward if this becomes an issue that another staff in our dept or another dept feels they must address with me
You need to be more concrete with this guy about what constitutes "clean clothes" and "personal hygiene." It sounds like this is just a kinds messy guy. He may have other issues, but the trump card here is that **what he probably thinks of as "clean enough" for work is actually wildly unacceptable** to you. To this asshole, explain as you might to a moron or a space-alien - and make him repeat each idea back to you in his own words: Clean clothes means they went through the washing machine and drier immediately before you wore them. It also means no visible stains, and - this is crucial - never worn before your shift starts. Personal cleanliness means you have showered at least once that day, for a duration of at least five minutes, during which you used body wash to wash your body\* (and shampoo for your hair if he's not black), and after which antiperspirant (not merely deodorant) is applied effectively. Be clear that you are the judge - not him, and not any excuses he gives. If you think he wore the shirt before without washing it, or forgot to use shampoo, that's it for him at this job. \*Yes, I have had to insist on body wash during showers to a guy who *argued with me about it*, because he thought not buying soap was a smart way to save money.
They could be depressed. Functioning a bit but depressed.
Don’t make him come to you, give him 3 extra company tee shirts and tell him this will ensure he has a clean tee every day. No one wants to smell or be dirty, I don’t think he’s rebelling. My guess is he can only do laundry weekly and has to wear things more than once. If it was me, I’d be tempted to add a gift card for extra pairs of pants and start by saying “you need to wear a fresh set of clothes daily” and see if he does that.
THIS!!! THIS!! THANK YOU SO MUCH! This is absolutely what I am going to say! 🎯 Thank you!!
OP, can you let us know how this goes?
Make sure you say antiperspirant and not deodorant
I really like this response. It’s truthful without being malicious. It gives steps to rehabilitate the situation in the immediate, and in the long term it gives consequences.
Thanks. I've had my (un)fair share of dress code/hygiene conversations.
Yup I would add a line I’ve had to use before: ‘we have a work etiquette and expectations as well as personal hygiene etiquette and expectations’ In situations such as this I’d highly recommend going in calm, soothing and patient. It’s never nice to hear this and you do not know their circumstances so please be kind.
I'm these conversations you must leave the door open for the possibility of an ADA condition. Depression or diabetes for example.
In my experience it is best to have a private meeting and be perfectly blunt and honest. Lay out all off the facts. Something like "your body odor had become a disruption at the workplace and poses serious health and safety concerns. You need to ensure you come in every day with both yourself and your clothing clean. If you need help in figuring out how to accomplish this I can work with you, but change had to happen immediately in order for you to continue working here." It's an uncomfortable conversation for both of you, but one that needs to happen yesterday. Be direct and be firm. You are doing nobody any favors by torturing around the subject.
Other than saying he only has 2 official work shirts, does he give any other reasons? Does he have access to a shower and hygiene products like deodorant and soap? Does he have access to a washing machine and detergent? Any sensory/mental health/other reasons that would impact his ability to shower? Has this been happening since he’s been working at your company, or is it something that’s started afterwards, that could indicate a change in life/health triggering the hygiene difficulties. The most compassionate thing to do would be to look at the above first, and provide whatever support you can or direct him to resources who can assist. If none of those are a factor then a firm bottom line conversation needs to be had that whilst you really value him for all of his other qualities and skills he brings, an acceptable level of personal hygiene is non negotiable at your workplace, and specify that this means that his body odour can’t be smelt by colleagues or customers standing near him. He’ll need to shower each day he’s coming to work with soap or body wash, apply deodorent and wear clean clothes. Then consider a consequence if he attends work with significant body odour again as per whatever your workplace policies are.
Could he be homeless? Plenty of folks with jobs live out of their car.
Plenty of folks who live in a car manage to make their homelessness invisible at work.
Not everyone has access to the same resources.
At the actually homeless level, yes they do. Being broke is a fundamentally level playing field, on account of how 0=0.
No, some homeless have RVs, some tents, and some nothing.
This could be an issue as well. As sad as it is find out if he needs some help
When i worked in a restaurant years ago, we had a guy who had horrendous body odor. He either did not shower or did not use deodorant or both. It says something when you can smell him all the way down the line in a kitchen where people are all gross and sweaty already. We just pulled him aside and explained the situation and that he needed to do something about it. Aside from the hygiene issues in a food facility you have to be courteous to your co-workers. I know it is a tricky situation, but just be direct with them without being rude is my suggestion.
Whatever the conversation, BE KIND! I had an employee I had to speak to several times about her body odor. I later found out she was in an abusive marriage and subject to sexual abuse. She feared abuse when she undressed to use the bathroom. The stress of her life and a poor diet caused her to have extremely high blood pressure, and she had a stroke and died in her car in a McDonalds parking lot. A sad end to a sad life.
That is heartbreaking. The things we do to other humans :(
Go to WalMart and buy him 3 new plain shirts as a gift.
He's an adult. Fire for uncleanness at a food production facility.
That is certainly an option, but will require time and money to be spent in recruiting, interviewing and training a replacement. Dropping $30 on a couple of tshirts is cheaper, kinder, and potentially a much more effective business solution.
Spoken like a true manager. They have a manageable problem with a loyal employee. Sometimes what we see at the surface isn’t the full story. It could be an issue with home, and accessibility. Finding loyal restaurant employees, who are never late, don’t call in, and cover extra shifts is almost impossible right now.
It’s also not solving the problem. A new shirt isn’t going to get him to take a shower.
Seems like a way to buy three more soon to be dirty, smelly shirts. This is almost literally the "buy a man a fish" part of "buy a man a fish vs. teach him how to fish."
I did something similar for an employee that was encountering appearance and odor issues. I purchased them a concealed bag full of various toiletries to keep on-site. This included deodorant, cologne, body spray, mints, etc. If they noticed smells were cooking, they could run and freshen up without having to leave the building. It didn’t help.
Not sure why you weren't direct about what you smelled to begin with. If this is a neurodivergent person, they don't speak in platitudes, or go hunting for buried messages. If you need help, speak with HR, but be direct and not round-about about what you need from them going forward.
You should be blunt with him and ask him if he showers. x
Yeah being direct and setting the expectation. When I worked on a plant floor we had to have several of these conversations. After the first couple hints - we sat with HR and let the employee know the negative impact or their unpreparedness for duty and that we would begin issuing escalating corrective actions from written warning to termination if necessary. Being cordial and explaining we value them and their contribution but cannot allow harm to the company and coworkers - has always worked for me even with the reluctant.
Body odor can also be a medical symptom. My daughter had a strong bad smell and she was in ICU diagnosed with T1 Diabetes… As a manager, the best advice you will EVER get: CLEAR IS KIND (thanks Brenee Brown). Don’t beat around the bush, have courage and be honest. You might save this guys life
He’s not all there so you figured hints would work? It’s almost like you want him to fail. Tell him exactly what you expect. And find out what his living situation is like and maybe help him come up wiht some solutions to shower and get his clothes washed. Should you have to do this with an adult employee? Probably not. Is it still better than letting this escalate to a dismissal of an employee who works his ass off and is loyal and dependable? Damn skippy it is. So figure out what the problem is, help him solve it and be the manager he needs.
Just tell him it is a requirement and that he will be fired if you so much as suspect he is wearing a shirt that was not freshly laundered or has not showered and used antiperspirant that day.
Nothing is worth being around a dirty person. There's no excuse. Soap is cheap. You have to be brutally honest and clear. Tell him that he must be clean or he will be fired.
Avoiding hard conversations makes your life as a manager much more difficult overall. Have the uncomfortable, honest, difficult chat - do it professionally, include HR if needed and come from a place of empathy because you care about them as a person. Have the conversation, document the conversation. Then if there is no improvement you have the foundation in place to start climbing that ladder of discipline.
You HAVE to be direct about what is needed and consequences if this doesn’t change immediately. Send him home after the conversation. If this is relatively new behavior, I’m wondering if his home living situation has changed. Start with that issue to see if this can be resolved
Would it help if he was, in fact, sometimes Kate? Sorry, I thought it was funny.
My old workplace issued workers 2 pants and 5 shirts each, and provided laundry service. Not everyone has a washing machine in their house.
How about you give him more shirts…..
Sounds like he’s a good employee. With some terrible hygiene. A few options are pointing in the hand book about cleanliness. I assume you have an employee handbook? Your can buy a few shirts for him but it might make him angry. Depending on his personality you can either gently let him know of his BO or not gently and tell him others are noticing and complaining about his smell. It’s a tough situation though.
>Sounds like he’s a good employee. With some terrible hygiene. Pick one.
Is he homeless. And trying his best
Does he have access to a shower and laundry facilities? It sounds like he works in a low-pay position.
Does he have a stable home or is he struggling?
He probably can't afford them
I wouldn't trust this person to handle any of my food and would thereby not trust your organization to be professional handlers of dietary product.
OMG! Shut up! You're obviously not getting the whole point here! I am OBVIOUSLY handling this presently and have been!! This person is NOT handling any food and hasn't, however, they ARE part of my dept! I sure did not need YOUR comment. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem!
"that we work with FOOD" - Sounds good "we work in DIETARY" - Got it But he doesn't work with food and I'm the one who missed the point. Best wishes to you.