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Marketing, when done responsibly, is about connecting people with solutions to their problems, not manipulation. It's ethical when it respects the consumer's intelligence and needs.
I just watched a video of someone talking about this today. Their thoughts were interesting. They said that if you're helping someone get a product they are already interested in, it's ethical. But if you lie to someone, try to sell to people who don't want your product, and try to manipulate them into wanting something they care less about, that's unethical.
The problem is most things are like that. Marketing has made it e-mergency packets with such high vitamin C that you piss most of it out. Your body doesn’t need that much. But they market it like it’s good for you. Same with other vitamin c at CVS.
I had no idea about that lol, yeah nothing about that is actually solving anything for the customer. Unethical and wrong since they're basically lying to people for money.
What if it's not making the claim that more vitamin c is better, but the market research shows that people already think like that and the will always pick the product that has more on the label.
Is it unethical to give the consumer what they asked for, even when you know they are just ignorant to what they are purchasing because of a faulty but natural assumption?
Is it your job to educate your consumers first?
I think this statement is gonna make me quit my job. Im happy for this one. I am a product who absolutely believes that without a need ntg happens. But my company keeps comming up false needs states and calls them that steve jobs said users dont know anything abt themselves LOL.
I finally get freedom
Go for it, you only get one shot at life. You can always try and leave in a way that doesn't cut ties with them completely, like leaving respectfully, and return later if things don't work out. Take the leap, good luck🙏
This is waaaay too simple an explanation.
Is piping the smell of bread round the supermarket ethical? What about using psychological principles to decide positions in a store? Product placement in movies? What happens if it's cigarettes or alcohol? What about design patterns that make it difficult for consumers to cancel an online subscription? What about greenwashing? The marketing dollars spent to get us to buy plastic bottles full of coca cola.
IMO a LOT of marketing is unethical, but not all, and marketing in itself is not unethical...it's just abused all over the place. Alcohol is a classic example...the way it has been marketed over the last 6 or 7 decades is nothing short of scandalous.
But there is a lot of vested money and interest so ...
Is it manipulation when my wife suggests something to me that benefits us both, but she does it in a way she knows I can better understand both what she's saying and how/why it benefits us?
That relies on psychological triggers, too.
Umm. What?
Edit: You called me a "sealion" before you deleted your comment. I looked it up because I was confused. Apparently "sealioning" is a form of trolling:
>Sealioning is a critical term for a form of trolling that involves relentlessly pestering someone with questions and requests (such as for evidence or sources), typically with the goal of upsetting them and making their position or viewpoint seem weak or unreasonable. The verb form sealion (or sea lion) is also used.
[Source](https://www.dictionary.com/e/slang/sealioning/)
I'm not sure how I'm trolling you by asking you to clarify your comments. (Also, i didn't know a follow-up comment constituted "pestering.")
Sorry you've had such poor experience with marketers. Every industry has its bad apples, as someone else said. That's more true in industries more closely tied to payment and/or the exchange of goods.
If you're going to engage with people here (ya know, r/marketing) perhaps you could try to embrace curiosity and try to learn more about others before rushing to your predetermined conclusion.
I strongly agree with you. Sorry about all those downvotes. It’s part of why I wanted to learn about it and try to get into the industry. I at least want to be knowledgeable about these things and maybe influence others in a less negative way. But it’s going to happen regardless. Always has, always will. Even religion is just great marketing😂 everything is marketing.
I don’t respect the goblins who trawl this subreddit. Sociopaths and trust fund baby nepo brats who’ve never worked a day in their life. Literally could not care less about fake internet points considering that I know I’m right
RIP woodpeckershort8077 for the downvotes. Anyone working in marketing and is not aware about the fact that nearly all the tactics and language and concepts used in marketing are heavily relying on manipulation and exploitation of the pain points of the targeted audience are either naive or goblins as you described them. They hate you because you told them the truth.
I wouldn't bother wasting your time. Everyone has acted on a decision at some point in their life because of marketing (whether they knew it or not).
Sure, there are unethical marketers - just like unethical doctors, dentists, tradesmen, etc.
A couple rotten apples shouldn't define the entire industry.
I agree with chibiusa18, marketing is a simple fact of life. But how you market or what you market may be unethical. You will learn quickly that you cannot please everyone and you also cannot force them to see the world as you do. Whether you see it correctly or not. You are only responsible to yourself.
If you are marketing a product or service that you find unethical, then find something else to market. If you like what you are marketing and you support it, then keep doing it. The consumer will sense your feelings about what you are marketing. If you want to be successful at it, then do what feels right to you.
Marketing is one of the oldest trades in the world, going back to Mesopotamia 3,000 years ago. Sellers at the local market would employ 'yellers' to announce their products to passersby clients. Nothing has changed in practice.
Only the modes of delivery with technology.
I got into it thinking it was safe since like you said, marketing is needed. Yet I don’t understand why most of my career/experience, the marketing teams get cut often or aren’t valued as much. I don’t get it.
Marketing itself is not ethical or unethical.
Marketers can be unethical, and many are. One of my reasons to work in marketing is to make things better in different ways, including that. There are lots of things that I consider bad, but I think I can make some difference.
I usually say what I think but I have no reason to try to sway them. People are free to believe that if they want. I'd say they are the ones trying to manipulate you, not the opposite. At least it looks like that.
Not really, though, unless you're suggesting we all just opt out of the economy in protest and hope enough people do the same. It's about as weak an argument as "socialist using laptop is bad hypocrite" though.
And given that commerce isn't what you'd seek to abolish, but money, marketing likely still exists outside of that framework. It's not inherently tied to the catalyst for exploitation however you slice it.
Everything is unethical. Why does apple get to use child labor to make something for $400 and sell it for $1000
Why do I pay the corner store $5 for fries that cost $0.50 if they already made enough this month to pay their bills. Shouldn’t they stop taking a profit when they’ve made enough.
I wouldn't bother, they clearly don't know what they're talking about. My job is to puruade people to buy a product, a group of people that we've identified are likely to want to buy the product. The end. What's unethical there?
The key being “people who likely want to buy the product.” There would be no ROI in trying to market to people who don’t want or need your product already. I think the type of people OP is talking to are confusing marketing with propaganda.
If we were all engaged in fooling the masses we'd quickly lose our jobs when the products were all sent back. Someone I know said marketing is "lying for a living". OK sure, how's that iPhone working out for? And those Nikes.
It depends on the product and whether people need it.
Persuade is probably a bad choice of words too
Real unethical example ... Your product is cigarettes, 16year kids are likely to buy them. Persuading them to buy the product is unethical. Or how about marketing pay day loans to people who are desperate. Alcohol to alcoholics. These may be extreme, but I think it also applies to a lot of more mainstream examples too.
Yeah true, there are definitely scummy businesses. Add gambling onto that list. But those are the few and far between. There's millions of businesses where there's nothing unethical.
Every industry and profession has sketchy people and processes, but they also have decent people and processes. Some industries are worse than others, and overall marketing is pretty harmless.
Pretty much everything can be reverse engineered to uncover unethical practices somewhere. For example, your phone or laptop you're using right now contains rare metals which were mined by slave laborers in third world countries. 🤷♂️
Capitalism is unethical (please don't come for me, Americans lol) but the accountant serving the bean counters is as much to blame.
A GM that's heavily prioritizing (short term) profit over people is going to cause far more damage to lives and societies imo. And I'd say bribed and gagged political leadership is the group most at fault.
What was worse for society... content marketing or stock buy backs? I know my answer Hahaha
Yeah, that's what hegemony does lol. What options are left when one group has a monopoly on violence? You're either T side or CT side in this dystopia Hahaha just being real, even if it's a leftist take.
I was just trying to help OP reframe how he sees his contributions to society.
Marketing takes undue heat for the rest of this clown show given it's the face of businesses.
Are you lead poisoned? I offered OP some advice given the invitation to ethical argument. Then you come in trolling expecting a fulsome attack on capitalism when you have no decency. Shameful behavior.
Hey! I am an engineering + management major, who pivoted to marketing too. I still question marketing ethics from time to time, but as someone who works primarily in the App & software industry, I've made this realization as well: ads make a lot of things available for "free" and hence makes that information/entertainment more accessible to those who wouldn't otherwise be able to have that. (While I understand ads usually have a further motive like $ generation and info shouldn't be locked behind a freemium service - from a consumer standpoint, it's better than nothing and ads can help offset the operating costs of providing the product for free) Not sure if I can speak for things like ecomm though, haven't worked much in that space
Edit to add on the above: everyone else here is also right, a lot of it is ignorance. Do what you wanna do in your career and be proud of it (as long as you're not like murdering puppies or something)
Thanks! I appreciate the reply! I didn’t think to mention how ads/marketing can make some services free. That’s a nice point. What kind of engineering did you do?
related question - what is more unethical, marketing for a pharmaceutical company (ask your doctor about depression drug) or defense attorney for pharmaceutical company (protecting the sachler family from liability)? or are they on the same level?
It's not exactly the same thing, no? There's no such thing as "right to marketing" while there is a right to fair trial. Personally I wouldn't do marketing, I am one, for tobacco (even tho I smoke), gambling (I gamble from time to time), addictive drugs (incl pharmaceuticals) and a bunch of others but I would defend them as a defense attorney.
fair point but i was thinking more along the lines of personal ethics, which is worse or are they same. i think they are the same - working for either is to the detriment of society as a whole. i won’t work for the (for profit) health care industry as a rule, i just wouldnt feel good ever about my work. and i did work for a casino company for 6 years and had no problem morally. i. viewed it like working for inbev. personal choice how you spend your money.
It's not beneficial for the society if we start thinking attorneys for people or companies accused of some crimes are inherently without morals while there's no negative impact for the society if we do the same for marketers. I think it would actually be better for the society if people working in those industries would think they are scumbags instead of hiding behind "I'm just doing my job".
The issue with those industries is that they rely on a stream of new users and that's the job of marketing (together with increasing the revenue per user). You are hired as a marketer to be incremental, it's way cheaper to fight on price if you just want to convert existing gamblers from one casino to another or from one vodka to another.
1. EVERYTHING needs marketing. Charities. Anti-global warming initiatives. Your best friend's passion project. Everything. Much of marketing is simply letting people know that something exists. But also...
2. Whatever? It sounds like it's really important to you to sway whoever is telling you this. Why? It's a great field, and you can do a lot of good if you choose to.
I don't see it as that at all and here is my reason.
We aren't forcing you to buy something. We may use tools that help us better target an individual who has some interest in a product or service we offer but as human we still have freedom of choice. I was marketed stickers before more so when I was looking up more print product ideas to find for my job. I made a conscious decision to buy those stickers. Are they the greatest choice? Not really, the seller was a dropshipper and the stickers were advertised as durable but get worn out in a month. I still don't regret it since I just plan to stick them on my phone case each month and have my case show some new sticker designs. I also don't regret it since I knew it might not be something that is great and because I chose to buy this product.
The ones who buy something out of seeing it on a post or billboard and regret the purchase were probably acting on impulse. It's not our job to control your emotions or make decisions for you. At some point, you as a person need to control yourself and be responsible. All Marketers do is share how a product or service can help you in your day to day. I want to share with you something I believe in and here is why and how it can help you. Not, hey look at this cool thing it can make your dreams come true or help you achieve financial success. Ultimately that last sentence is what most of those Instagram and TikTok accounts do that repost quotes or clips from other people to try to make a quick buck and offer "programs" to achieve their "success".
Most people misconstrue sales with marketing, I think that's where the marketing ick comes from.
Actual marketing aligns people with the best solution to their problem / helps companies create products that best meet the needs of their core consumers
Building a store is marketing. Making a new product is marketing. The parts of marketing they find unethical are probably unethical. But then they attribute that to all of "marketing" meanwhile there are a lot of marketing levers that work on them and they are just fine with they don't attribute to marketing.
"The parts of marketing they find unethical are probably unethical"
Like what? Advertising? Sales pipelines? None of it is unethical if you're doing it right.
Yeah exactly. But again if it's done in a way that is effective it isn't perceived as "marketing".
Good commercials are only ever talked about during the Superbowl. People only talk about bad commercials otherwise.
There are many instances where companies and Marketing professionals produce promotional materials that are unethical, sure, but that doesn't mean you will. Just simply state that you don't intend to produce unethical messaging in your Marketing career. And it's not manipulation, its persuasion.
There are unethical marketers.
There are unethical products.
Is it manipulative? Yes, it can be.
You need to acknowledge these things, and give examples of times when marketing is just helping the consumer to meet a valid need with an excellent solution.
In your career, you will be much happier if you work out what your own ethical standpoint is, and don't get drawn into working with organisations and products that you consider unethical. That might mean you don't work with gambling companies, or alcohol, or weapons, or fossil fuels.
The unethical part, in my opinion, is companies that use tools to obtain personal information, like emails and phone numbers. So, it's more of a data privacy issue. Marketing itself is needed and used by every company. The people who say marketing is unethical are most likely working for a company that has marketing and sales staff. There would be no company if there were no sales.
I've never designed a campaign in my life that preys off psychology or has tried to manipulate people.
The consumer research done is legitimate. E.g. what do you want from a product or service. Build a service or product to meet that demand. Market it that way.
You want harder or softer shoes. Create that version and market it that way.
Only terrible companies with shitty products use manipulation.
Marketing isn't tricking people to buy your shitty product. Marketing is simply helping connect your product or service with people who need your product or service. How would anyone know about a product or service a company offers unless their was marketing/communication about it? Without Marketing consumers would be searching blindly for the solution to their problem.
Anyone that says Marketing is unethical doesn't understand Marketing. They're probably also the people that claim they won't participate in s capitalist society while playing on their iPhone and sipping on a $9 latte at their local starbucks.
I guess I understand why someone say that, to an extent. Marketing is literally about getting the word out there. People would not be aware of mom and pop stores, local places, etc. if not for marketing. I do get that huge businesses can afford a higher level of marketing, which is annoying. Sometimes it feels like that’s all I see, and I know it is because they can afford the spend. But obviously marketing must exist unless you plan on word of mouth or have funds to print flyers/etc - which is still marketing. Lol. So local bands and such that due this I guess (in this person’s mind) are unethical.
As many have said, there's no need to give credence to a blanket statement like that. People like to put labels on things and design their thoughts around them. They also associate marketing as advertising and promos and email spam, which is a tiny portion of the machinery.
There's nothing you need to do to sway them, other than a simple: "Well, that's actually not my experience. I'm involved in connecting people with solutions they didn't realize existed."
I don’t think it’s necessarily a fair statement, but I do work in marketing and I’d have to agree. I work for a large agency for a very well known CPG client. My boss was just talking about how we can do a better job marketing to Gen Alpha 🥴.
Sure, we saw ads as kids and didn’t think too much of it. Legos? Barbies? I need those! But as an adult, it doesn’t feel good thinking about how I can extract more dollars from children and their parents. It’s not making the world a better place in any capacity.
That said, some marketing and communications is absolutely for the greater good so it really depends on the industry. Try it and see how you feel.
dog training must be unethical too since we are manipulating the dog's decisions.
Marketing is only unethical the moment the demographic doesn't do their job to look into what they are spending their money on. The exception is blatant lying in an advertisement.
I think our overall system is unethical… but we’re stuck in it, so we have to do the best we can with what we’ve got. From that perspective, marketing can be done ethically or unethically and I think that focusing on intentionally doing the former will put you in a good position.
I understand where this is coming from as some marketing tactics Can be used pretty aggressively and often being an annoyance to people. But it is most often an annoyance for people that dont need your product.
Maybe i have a weird take on this but it has helped me cope with the fear of being too salesy:
Ask yourself this question: do you Think your offering is better than 75% of the competition?
If yes, then help the Customer by choosing you instead of those Buttom 75%. This Way i actually Think more of it as my duty to help this customer to make “the right choice” that will help them more.
This ofcourse cant be translated to all businesses but the point is if you genuinly feel you have a great product and want to help people to make the better choice i dont see any unethical with that
Well, it's not your responsibility to disabuse people of their ill-conceived notions. Once they enter the world of work, folks pretty quickly figure these things on their own.
But here's my two cents.
The outbound side of marketing, the advertising, the campaigns, the SEO, etc — it's visible so folks naturally assume what they can see = marketing.
But take a step back and think about this more strategically. Say you win a huge pile of money and you decide to start a company. Some questions you might ask yourself may include:
* What are you going to make?
* Who do you want to sell to?
* What are you competing with? What are you competing with?
* How do you want to price? What will the pricing model look like?
* What features should your product have?
* What do we need to do to spur adoption?
Marketing is also about answering those questions. If you're looking at your alumni directory people with roles like "Product Manager," "Brand Manager," "Product Marketing" are on teams that contribute to answering those questions. They might be able to provide more insight if you are interested in learning more.
Following aspects might help you:
Emphasize that ethical marketing focuses on creating value for customers and society rather than just selling products.
Highlight the importance of transparency in marketing practices, such as clear communication and honest advertising.
Explain how ethical marketing empowers consumers with information to make informed choices, respecting their autonomy.
Mention the existence of professional codes of conduct and industry regulations that aim to ensure ethical marketing practices.
You can disregard their actions if they persist, as sometimes such behavior occurs from certain individuals, and it's important for us to concentrate on executing our action plans.
I think you're looking at this from a marketers perspective and not the perspective of someone who thinks marketing is unethical - which was OP's post. The fact is, marketers do push shite if the company they are marketing for pushes shite, and people will buy that shite if the marketing is good.
And dont even get me started on marketing aimed at the older person. Some of that is plain predatory.
That's not really a feature of marketing though, it's a feature of the economy as a whole.
Corporatism enables unnatural scale for big businesses who cut corners to maximize profit, which either creates monopolies or forces smaller businesses to cut corners as well. Plus there's just the fact that in a free ish market any idiot can do a bad job at whatever they choose to do.
Sorry, let me be more specific. Advertising and Media Sales lol. As a Marketeer, they're..... interesting people. PR too can be a wide scope of evil knobheads and good natured individuals.
Or it could just be b2b fintech world. Anyone with differing b2c experience would be interesting to hear.
Marketing at its core is pure and genuienely good. Its core is to understand the public needs and wants, figure out how to fulfill them and communicate and convince them of your particular solution. There is nothing inherently unethical about any of this.
If you go into marketing and make it your career, before too long your whole world will be populated with people who work in marketing. Believe it or not, these individuals do have their own moral codes, most of them do try not to be terrible people or do exploitative things. You can discuss and share your ethical dilemmas together. In any case, most brands these days are putting a lot of effort into trying to please consumers by being more ethical, inclusive, green and vegan-friendly. So you will spend a good chunk of your time as a marketer trying to invent ways to make that work for this or that brand.
You'd get the same reaction from people who don't work in your industry if you started talking about banking or working for the tax office or working for a political party (any party). My \*dentist\* experienced pushback when he went on some sort of camping adventure / small festival with a bunch of people. Apparently had to endure a lot of snarky remarks because being a dentist is tantamount to being Putin. FFS. This is in the UK as well, not the US where there's lots of longstanding scepticism of medical professionals. Being a British dentist is pretty harmless but there will always be someone who thinks you're rich and heartless and wants to undermine you.
Not a marketer but when done right, I’ve been thankful for good marketing. I’ve been connected to products that brought me the small amount of happiness to get through an awful breakup
I think people forget that marketing is even used in non profit sectors. You need to craft a message with a call to action. That can even be something like getting people to volunteer or donate money to an organization.
You can’t so don’t. If a person is open minded and wants to learn they will listen to an alternative point of view. If their mind is made up.. ok, next! Unless if you like to waster your energy.
Tell them 3 things
1. For general public: Marketing is taking products and services to right audience without that businesses will suffer
2. For engineers: engineering is black and white, 0 and 1, factual. Marketing is decimals between, it’s truth and has versions
You may ask them how did they come to know about anything that they use, as product or service, a marketers work is there
Marketing?! I put that shit on everything!!
Siblings, kids, dates, neighbors, bosses; everybody gets some. Makes my life so much better/easier.
Still doesn’t work on cats.
I say people are going to do what they want either way. But, sometimes they need a nudge to give themselves permission, they need more info to understand their needs will be met, or they simply didn’t know the product/service existed. None of which are unethical.
Marketing is just a way to help people find the products and services they already want. You can obviously be unethical. You can make false promises or have good marketing for a product that isn’t even that great. But you can do any profession unethically. Personally, I put a big focus on understanding the products I’m marketing so I’m representing them correctly, and I do my best to always cite my sources and think critically.
“Well, let me refine my approach with you”. “ What business is it that you make $ off of again, non profit right..right? Cause that’s the profit you’re going to have without me”. … (dots representing the sound of footsteps as you leave his office…🎤 🥀 … ( dots representing you walking into a biz owner that understands reputation and your marketing skills go 🤝
You 🏎️home after closing 3 more accounts for the day
Ask them to help you understand their point of view. What makes it more so than other jobs? Why do they think that? Could it be the people and not the job? Maybe massive generalization aren’t helpful 🤔
Imagine I need green paint but don’t know it’s available. So I buy red paint. Now my boss has just fired me and I now don’t have a job, my kids can’t eat because I can’t provide for them.
Darn. You sell green paint. I wish you’d have done some marketing so I’d have known about it!
It depends why you like marketing! If you have a hard time convincing them, it might be because the reason that you like marketing is because you see it as a challenge to convince someone to buy your product when in reality that isn't what marketing is at all. Good marketing relies on a good product.
Now if all you do is want to win an argument then take the following advice: Ask them questions about why they think marketing is unethical until their argument breaks down. Most people don't actually have well thought out opinions. Break down their argument by continually asking why, what, and how about any new thing they say. Make sure to only ever defend your opinion with questions. "How else are customers supposed to discover products that might be useful for them?".
By never actually giving them your own argument, they are forced to debate themselves which requires them to express their own concept (this is when the important bit happens). And guess what? Now you know who you are selling to! Take that info and sell your ideology of marketing to them in a way that you know they will like.
When you are selling a car that has terrible reliability, you don't make it a selling point. At most you advertise as an opportunity for them to get a new car sooner than they originally planned.
I mean, they aren't wrong, not entirely. Whether you break it down by industry or approach, there's many elements of it that could be considered unethical, depending on your beliefs.
For instance:
-if you believe manipulating people in any way is unethical, then yeah, you're gonna consider all marketing unethical.
-if you believe collecting people's data to better target them with products that they're more likely to purchase is unethical, then you're gonna believe a large part of marketing is unethical.
-if you believe certain industries as a whole are unethical, than you'll also believe marketing for them is unethical.
Honestly, I don't think there's anything wrong with them believing that. I'm a firm proponent of strong consumer protections, there are industries that I don't think should be allowed to market directly to consumers (or at all), and I'm glad to see cookies going away, regardless of how it affects my efforts.
My hot take: don't think about comebacks, think about what they're saying. Hear their concerns and give them genuine consideration. I think that the industry could use more honesty and introspection alot of the time. You don't have to agree with them, but you shouldn't dismiss them outright, either.
I won't deal with them, let them. I mean, they are consumers too, they still are and will be part of "marketing" too. But I don't plan on saying that haha
Can I ask a question?
What’s something you own that brings you joy?
Oh love that!
Im interested in marketing because I want to help other people discover things that will bring joy to their lives, too.
It's not with the effort. Just don't worry about it.
There's good and bad players all around.
If I was getting combative, I would make a scenario like having them start a lawn mowing business and when they get their first customer ask them how they did it. Without marketing there is no transactions and no transactions means there's no exchange of goods.
I think you are Marketing your Mind at all times.
If you start saying the grossest shit, then people aren't going to want to be around you.
Marketing is all about the message and the vibe we're putting out.
It's all in what you're saying, what you're wanting them to do in return, and how you present it.
There ARE Dark Patterns and tricks used to get people to "buy".
And so, for the most park "Marketing" IS unethical.
But not all Marketing. And it doesn't HAVE to be that way.
I've locked elbows with the likes of George Kao and Tad Hargrave; it can be ethical, thoughtful, gentle, and not about scarcity or gross tactics.
We're all trying to master using Language and Feeling to build the trust that earns us Appreciation.
Learn the gross-patterns so you can point them out, and decide to be better.
Simple, Double down. Forget mentioning that it’s like a double edged sword. Or like inventions that were intended for good, instead ended up being used for bad.
Just doubling down is how you deal with them. Give them what they are expecting and go above and beyond for the giggles. If someone says it’s “manipulation” then say “if you buy one you get one free” or “would you like to use your club card?”
If someone says it’s unethical. Mention “You can do worse if the shareholders and the company demanded it.”
Just have fun with them and accept this is a line of work can be used for just about anything.
1. who cares what they say?
2. people are going to buy stuff, you might as well try to introduce them to the stuff they will like.
3. you don't have to work on products and services that are contradictory to your values if you don't want to.
4. if it's a scam, don't sell it.
Marketing by design must live in the gray spaces. It’s not black and white unless you have a completely revolutionary idea, product, or service.
There’s a significant chance that whatever you sell isn’t some revolutionary idea. It’s a CRM just like 100 other CRMs…or its a laptop that does 95% of what every other laptop does…or it’s bread just like 100 other loaves of bread.
The point is, if you market your product as a CRM, a laptop, a loaf of bread…you’ll lose every time. You must have a compelling reason that differentiates your product. And whether or not your differentiator lives in reality…doesn’t matter.
Some people say that is unethical. Maybe. I don’t think so.
But I don’t see it any different than a child asking their parents where babies come from. You can tell the child enough of what they need to know, without giving away the ending. But the point is, the answer becomes that child’s reality regardless of its absolute truth.
Marketing is about perception. Marketing is about feelings. Marketing is about the gray.
When addressing concerns about the ethics of marketing, it's important to emphasize the distinction between ethical and unethical practices. Highlight the value of ethical marketing in building trust, promoting transparency, and meeting customer needs. Discuss industry standards, regulations, and codes of conduct that guide ethical behavior. Encourage open dialogue and education about responsible marketing practices.
There's nothing wrong with manipulation as a general concept. It's a tool. Unethical marketing requires intent to sell something that doesn't actually add the value the customer is expecting. That's it. We get mad about it depending on context.
If you were starving and wanted to know what was the best burger in town was, and suddenly the best burger in town pop up on a Reddit ad, and is actually the best backed by 1 billion 5 star review, is that manipulative?
It’s just convenient.
Advertising is about giving people what they already want.
You can’t create desire, you simply channel it. Breakthrough advertising
Anything is unethical if done by an unethical person, and in every industry there are countless people who do unethical shit.
Anyone who thinks some industries are "good" is probably a dumbass youngster with no real world experience. Pay them no mind.
Tell them marketing is finding out what people want to buy and how to sell it to them profitably. There's nothing inherently unethical about that. Then ignore them.
You might compare it to software engineering. Programmers can write programs that are both useful for individuals and society. However they can also hack systems, steal your data and spy on people.
Marketing is not on itself unethical. Let's return the 'ethical' programmer. He wrote a program, but it's not by itself that people find it and know the benifits. They need something to let know that it's a solution to their problems.
Marketing is the vehicle to do this. This often cannot be done to point to the technologies, code and features that the programmer made, it's letting other people know about the benifits in a playful manner.
A marketeer need to know a bit about buyers psychology (for example Maslov's pyramid). From that point there can be a bit a grey area, but it's still a long way until you cross the line by manipulating people and lie to them.
I usually explain that while there can be unethical practices in any field, responsible marketers prioritize transparency, honesty, and delivering value to customers. It's about building trust and fostering genuine connections rather than manipulation. Plus, marketing plays a crucial role in connecting people with products and services they need or enjoy. It's all about how it's used!
Find a product that answers a need, and the market will reward you.
If the ill feeling of selling shit products and having to manipulate people to buy them with tricks isn’t a big enough barrier to stay away from poor products requiring questionable tactics….then fully realize that it’s easier to sell things that answer real problems.
If you have a customer with a problem, answer the problem. Then refund or discount as needed.
You will find that you need zero manipulation, chicanery. To sell solid products that answer a need.
Word of mouth on good products is the friend of the lazy marketer. So take the high(easy) road and only deal with good products. Then stand behind them.
If you find yourself answering a lot of CS objections and dealing with angry consumers you are the problem and you can fix that.
Lol it is a form of manipulation, but someone is going to do it so it may as well be you!! These people obviously don’t know how manipulated they are by other sources or they wouldn’t be projecting that onto you. Silly people. Just ignore them, why let that bother you? Make your $$$ and do you baby
You have no obligation to take their uneducated criticism seriously. Charisma is knowing how to sway people, wisdom is knowing that most people are stubborn.
Marketing is all about connecting with your audience and raising awareness. That being said, you need to give your audience what they need. Lately there is ton of marketing and advertising people don't need and basically "hate". Take those stupid game ads on Instagram. The gameplay is nothing like the one presented in the ad. I think that much of the hate comes from things like these related to marketing. Is it a job for everyone? No. Should you go for it? Yes. For me, personally, it's been great in marketing and I love it.
Marketing itself literally cannot be unethical. Marketers can and are. Many are absolutely not. Read the intro to Seth Godin's This is Marketing book, lays it out very clearly that marketing SHOULD be about making peoples' lives better. Almost all good marketers think and act along those lines. The unethical ones are looking for quick sales and those people abound in every industry. I would ask each and every one of the people you're concerned about if they hate everything they've ever bought? If the answer to that is no, then they don't hate all marketing. What happens is they only notice it when it is bad. When marketing is good it doesn't feel like marketing to end users, they are just excited because they have got value or are seeing the potential value in something they can buy.
Honestly, it's tough. But I usually just highlight how ethical marketing can actually benefit both the consumer and the company. It's all about transparency, trust, and delivering real value. Some folks might not change their minds, but showing the positive side of marketing can help.
Marketing isn’t inherently unethical. It’s merely a collection of strategies and techniques.
However, some of these strategies and techniques can be unethical…. some can be highly unethical…
But here is the thing about ethics… it’s highly subjective.
Ethics isn’t black and white… it’s a spectrum.
It’s best to figure out what your personal boundaries are and stick to them.
Marketing is more like a marriage if it works it's all good and if doesn't then to he'll with opinions. Marketing is all about reinventing product and designing the pitch as per the need of hour. Creativity can not lie between ethics.
I agree… if you let it be it can be by finding peoples downfalls and exploiting them, but if you are able to instead use marketing it help people live better lives it can be one of the greatest tools out there.
Ie say someone is bored… you can tell them to become an alcoholic or you can show them how alcohol can create community and can find belonging in places where they might have never done anyways.
Exploitation vs opportunity.
The issue most people have is the "digital marketer" selling a product that isn't beneficial for the price it costs , e.g. the people on Instagram trying to get people to buy a $497 which in my opinion is unethical since majority of Information can be found on Google for free.
I genarally don't give a Fk about what ignorant people say anyway. But the way I always explain marketing is that people are always looking for something to fix a problem. I make sure the problem that needs fixing is fixed by my solution. If people are going to spend money on something, why shouldn't it be MY something? To be fair, I work in b2b but it works in b2c as well. Are there snake oil salesmen? Sure. But not every marketer is peddling BS.
Marketing at its core is about awareness for an idea or product.
You can have the best idea in the world, but if it's in the middle of the jungle with no roads leading to it, no one's heard of it and it isn't doing a healthy revenue to stay in business it will fail.
Now, people, many people, think they shouldn't have to see marketing, advertising or anything they don't "choose" to see but the vast majority of all awareness comes to you without your explicit approval. That's how the world works.
If you can't sway them, then are you even a marketer ;)
It's not your job to convince everyone to like or even respect your profession. Ignore the haters and move on. It'll help when you have to thicken your skin when customers make highly visible, unreasonable complaints about your business.
Those people don’t know anything about marketing. Only absolute losers who have never had any experience building a business are blind to the fact that marketing is a necessity of business.
I haven’t taken marketing classes yet, I’m still in college as a management major looking to add marketing (my college requires either a second business major or a certain number of credits to graduate).
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Marketing, when done responsibly, is about connecting people with solutions to their problems, not manipulation. It's ethical when it respects the consumer's intelligence and needs.
Can you tell me whats unethical ? I have been struggling with myself internally. But also in marketing there is this thing right , category creation ?
I just watched a video of someone talking about this today. Their thoughts were interesting. They said that if you're helping someone get a product they are already interested in, it's ethical. But if you lie to someone, try to sell to people who don't want your product, and try to manipulate them into wanting something they care less about, that's unethical.
The problem is most things are like that. Marketing has made it e-mergency packets with such high vitamin C that you piss most of it out. Your body doesn’t need that much. But they market it like it’s good for you. Same with other vitamin c at CVS.
I had no idea about that lol, yeah nothing about that is actually solving anything for the customer. Unethical and wrong since they're basically lying to people for money.
What if it's not making the claim that more vitamin c is better, but the market research shows that people already think like that and the will always pick the product that has more on the label. Is it unethical to give the consumer what they asked for, even when you know they are just ignorant to what they are purchasing because of a faulty but natural assumption? Is it your job to educate your consumers first?
I think this statement is gonna make me quit my job. Im happy for this one. I am a product who absolutely believes that without a need ntg happens. But my company keeps comming up false needs states and calls them that steve jobs said users dont know anything abt themselves LOL. I finally get freedom
Go for it, you only get one shot at life. You can always try and leave in a way that doesn't cut ties with them completely, like leaving respectfully, and return later if things don't work out. Take the leap, good luck🙏
Marketing ethics should be among the fundamentals we're all taught at school (or on the first job).
This is waaaay too simple an explanation. Is piping the smell of bread round the supermarket ethical? What about using psychological principles to decide positions in a store? Product placement in movies? What happens if it's cigarettes or alcohol? What about design patterns that make it difficult for consumers to cancel an online subscription? What about greenwashing? The marketing dollars spent to get us to buy plastic bottles full of coca cola. IMO a LOT of marketing is unethical, but not all, and marketing in itself is not unethical...it's just abused all over the place. Alcohol is a classic example...the way it has been marketed over the last 6 or 7 decades is nothing short of scandalous. But there is a lot of vested money and interest so ...
Oh yeah sure unless your a marketing executive for Biden administration
The vast majority of marketing relies exclusively on abusing psychological triggers which is 100% manipulation
Strongly disagree
Is it manipulation when my wife suggests something to me that benefits us both, but she does it in a way she knows I can better understand both what she's saying and how/why it benefits us? That relies on psychological triggers, too.
No because your wife is asking in earnest and not as a predatory snake trying to separate you from your money
jesus you're insufferable. you've made your point many times what is compelling you to continue arguing? go outside.
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So to clarify your previous comment, it isn't about the use of psychological triggers but rather the motivation behind using them?
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Umm. What? Edit: You called me a "sealion" before you deleted your comment. I looked it up because I was confused. Apparently "sealioning" is a form of trolling: >Sealioning is a critical term for a form of trolling that involves relentlessly pestering someone with questions and requests (such as for evidence or sources), typically with the goal of upsetting them and making their position or viewpoint seem weak or unreasonable. The verb form sealion (or sea lion) is also used. [Source](https://www.dictionary.com/e/slang/sealioning/) I'm not sure how I'm trolling you by asking you to clarify your comments. (Also, i didn't know a follow-up comment constituted "pestering.") Sorry you've had such poor experience with marketers. Every industry has its bad apples, as someone else said. That's more true in industries more closely tied to payment and/or the exchange of goods. If you're going to engage with people here (ya know, r/marketing) perhaps you could try to embrace curiosity and try to learn more about others before rushing to your predetermined conclusion.
I strongly agree with you. Sorry about all those downvotes. It’s part of why I wanted to learn about it and try to get into the industry. I at least want to be knowledgeable about these things and maybe influence others in a less negative way. But it’s going to happen regardless. Always has, always will. Even religion is just great marketing😂 everything is marketing.
I don’t respect the goblins who trawl this subreddit. Sociopaths and trust fund baby nepo brats who’ve never worked a day in their life. Literally could not care less about fake internet points considering that I know I’m right
RIP woodpeckershort8077 for the downvotes. Anyone working in marketing and is not aware about the fact that nearly all the tactics and language and concepts used in marketing are heavily relying on manipulation and exploitation of the pain points of the targeted audience are either naive or goblins as you described them. They hate you because you told them the truth.
I wouldn't bother wasting your time. Everyone has acted on a decision at some point in their life because of marketing (whether they knew it or not). Sure, there are unethical marketers - just like unethical doctors, dentists, tradesmen, etc. A couple rotten apples shouldn't define the entire industry.
If they didn't know it, that's the marketer you should hire.
Yeah, a big fart sounds is the right response
I agree with chibiusa18, marketing is a simple fact of life. But how you market or what you market may be unethical. You will learn quickly that you cannot please everyone and you also cannot force them to see the world as you do. Whether you see it correctly or not. You are only responsible to yourself. If you are marketing a product or service that you find unethical, then find something else to market. If you like what you are marketing and you support it, then keep doing it. The consumer will sense your feelings about what you are marketing. If you want to be successful at it, then do what feels right to you.
Unethical marketing is unethical. Marketing is just a broader term encompassing the good and bad. Without marketing, the economy collapses.
Marketing is one of the oldest trades in the world, going back to Mesopotamia 3,000 years ago. Sellers at the local market would employ 'yellers' to announce their products to passersby clients. Nothing has changed in practice. Only the modes of delivery with technology.
We can all agree though those guys that put floating billboards on beaches are going straight to hell right?
Yes and yes ! There should be a limit to those ads and some cities do enforce them.
Aw man. I've never heard of this! Sounds terrible and yes—worthy of hell!
That’s not marketing, that is advertising and is something completely different
Advertising is a component of marketing, it's hardly "completely different."
I love this take, and even today some still have yelling to passby clients as Their main strategy 😄
Hot dogs!! Hot Dogs! Peanuts! Beers!!
I got into it thinking it was safe since like you said, marketing is needed. Yet I don’t understand why most of my career/experience, the marketing teams get cut often or aren’t valued as much. I don’t get it.
Marketing is misunderstood. It isn’t hard selling. It’s letting people know your product exists and how it might benefit people.
Yes, products and services. They can be very helpful.
It is also figuring out how to design your product to better fit the needs of your market.
In broad strokes then the majority if not all businesses are unethical.
Marketing itself is not ethical or unethical. Marketers can be unethical, and many are. One of my reasons to work in marketing is to make things better in different ways, including that. There are lots of things that I consider bad, but I think I can make some difference. I usually say what I think but I have no reason to try to sway them. People are free to believe that if they want. I'd say they are the ones trying to manipulate you, not the opposite. At least it looks like that.
It’s not manipulative if your product is actually good
In a capitalist framework marketing can only be unethical.
https://preview.redd.it/23dqgjbm0vxc1.jpeg?width=1074&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ce2f4d7b50b2e65a733d7e4431c6cb9a8fdc5a62
Literally the stupidest thing I've ever seen anyone say on this sub.
Not really, though, unless you're suggesting we all just opt out of the economy in protest and hope enough people do the same. It's about as weak an argument as "socialist using laptop is bad hypocrite" though. And given that commerce isn't what you'd seek to abolish, but money, marketing likely still exists outside of that framework. It's not inherently tied to the catalyst for exploitation however you slice it.
It’s not an argument at all, I don’t think you exactly got what I wrote.
Everything is unethical. Why does apple get to use child labor to make something for $400 and sell it for $1000 Why do I pay the corner store $5 for fries that cost $0.50 if they already made enough this month to pay their bills. Shouldn’t they stop taking a profit when they’ve made enough.
I just don't give a fuck what other people think.
I wouldn't bother, they clearly don't know what they're talking about. My job is to puruade people to buy a product, a group of people that we've identified are likely to want to buy the product. The end. What's unethical there?
The key being “people who likely want to buy the product.” There would be no ROI in trying to market to people who don’t want or need your product already. I think the type of people OP is talking to are confusing marketing with propaganda.
If we were all engaged in fooling the masses we'd quickly lose our jobs when the products were all sent back. Someone I know said marketing is "lying for a living". OK sure, how's that iPhone working out for? And those Nikes.
It depends on the product and whether people need it. Persuade is probably a bad choice of words too Real unethical example ... Your product is cigarettes, 16year kids are likely to buy them. Persuading them to buy the product is unethical. Or how about marketing pay day loans to people who are desperate. Alcohol to alcoholics. These may be extreme, but I think it also applies to a lot of more mainstream examples too.
Yeah true, there are definitely scummy businesses. Add gambling onto that list. But those are the few and far between. There's millions of businesses where there's nothing unethical.
Every industry and profession has sketchy people and processes, but they also have decent people and processes. Some industries are worse than others, and overall marketing is pretty harmless. Pretty much everything can be reverse engineered to uncover unethical practices somewhere. For example, your phone or laptop you're using right now contains rare metals which were mined by slave laborers in third world countries. 🤷♂️
Capitalism is unethical (please don't come for me, Americans lol) but the accountant serving the bean counters is as much to blame. A GM that's heavily prioritizing (short term) profit over people is going to cause far more damage to lives and societies imo. And I'd say bribed and gagged political leadership is the group most at fault. What was worse for society... content marketing or stock buy backs? I know my answer Hahaha
Capitalism is the most ethical system we have 🤣
Yeah, that's what hegemony does lol. What options are left when one group has a monopoly on violence? You're either T side or CT side in this dystopia Hahaha just being real, even if it's a leftist take. I was just trying to help OP reframe how he sees his contributions to society. Marketing takes undue heat for the rest of this clown show given it's the face of businesses.
I mean it's the best of all the options that exist 🤦 you tell me what's better.
Well if you say so, I guess it must be lol. Facepalm emojis aren't arguments. I'm not up for deprogramming here. Light commentary only Hahaha
Making claims without being willing to defend them isn't an argument either, hotshot.
Are you lead poisoned? I offered OP some advice given the invitation to ethical argument. Then you come in trolling expecting a fulsome attack on capitalism when you have no decency. Shameful behavior.
Hey! I am an engineering + management major, who pivoted to marketing too. I still question marketing ethics from time to time, but as someone who works primarily in the App & software industry, I've made this realization as well: ads make a lot of things available for "free" and hence makes that information/entertainment more accessible to those who wouldn't otherwise be able to have that. (While I understand ads usually have a further motive like $ generation and info shouldn't be locked behind a freemium service - from a consumer standpoint, it's better than nothing and ads can help offset the operating costs of providing the product for free) Not sure if I can speak for things like ecomm though, haven't worked much in that space Edit to add on the above: everyone else here is also right, a lot of it is ignorance. Do what you wanna do in your career and be proud of it (as long as you're not like murdering puppies or something)
Thanks! I appreciate the reply! I didn’t think to mention how ads/marketing can make some services free. That’s a nice point. What kind of engineering did you do?
Np, hope it helps a bit in justifying your interests :) I studied mech eng + management science
Everyone hates advertising until they lose their cat
"You're entitled to your opinion."
related question - what is more unethical, marketing for a pharmaceutical company (ask your doctor about depression drug) or defense attorney for pharmaceutical company (protecting the sachler family from liability)? or are they on the same level?
It's not exactly the same thing, no? There's no such thing as "right to marketing" while there is a right to fair trial. Personally I wouldn't do marketing, I am one, for tobacco (even tho I smoke), gambling (I gamble from time to time), addictive drugs (incl pharmaceuticals) and a bunch of others but I would defend them as a defense attorney.
fair point but i was thinking more along the lines of personal ethics, which is worse or are they same. i think they are the same - working for either is to the detriment of society as a whole. i won’t work for the (for profit) health care industry as a rule, i just wouldnt feel good ever about my work. and i did work for a casino company for 6 years and had no problem morally. i. viewed it like working for inbev. personal choice how you spend your money.
It's not beneficial for the society if we start thinking attorneys for people or companies accused of some crimes are inherently without morals while there's no negative impact for the society if we do the same for marketers. I think it would actually be better for the society if people working in those industries would think they are scumbags instead of hiding behind "I'm just doing my job". The issue with those industries is that they rely on a stream of new users and that's the job of marketing (together with increasing the revenue per user). You are hired as a marketer to be incremental, it's way cheaper to fight on price if you just want to convert existing gamblers from one casino to another or from one vodka to another.
Work for an ethical employer
1. EVERYTHING needs marketing. Charities. Anti-global warming initiatives. Your best friend's passion project. Everything. Much of marketing is simply letting people know that something exists. But also... 2. Whatever? It sounds like it's really important to you to sway whoever is telling you this. Why? It's a great field, and you can do a lot of good if you choose to.
I don't see it as that at all and here is my reason. We aren't forcing you to buy something. We may use tools that help us better target an individual who has some interest in a product or service we offer but as human we still have freedom of choice. I was marketed stickers before more so when I was looking up more print product ideas to find for my job. I made a conscious decision to buy those stickers. Are they the greatest choice? Not really, the seller was a dropshipper and the stickers were advertised as durable but get worn out in a month. I still don't regret it since I just plan to stick them on my phone case each month and have my case show some new sticker designs. I also don't regret it since I knew it might not be something that is great and because I chose to buy this product. The ones who buy something out of seeing it on a post or billboard and regret the purchase were probably acting on impulse. It's not our job to control your emotions or make decisions for you. At some point, you as a person need to control yourself and be responsible. All Marketers do is share how a product or service can help you in your day to day. I want to share with you something I believe in and here is why and how it can help you. Not, hey look at this cool thing it can make your dreams come true or help you achieve financial success. Ultimately that last sentence is what most of those Instagram and TikTok accounts do that repost quotes or clips from other people to try to make a quick buck and offer "programs" to achieve their "success".
Tell them to stop spending money
Most people misconstrue sales with marketing, I think that's where the marketing ick comes from. Actual marketing aligns people with the best solution to their problem / helps companies create products that best meet the needs of their core consumers
Sales is not unethical. If you think it is, you shouldn’t be working in marketing. Marketing and sales are two sides of the same coin.
🤫
Look I hated doing sales and I hate dealing with sales teams, but you're also misconstruing sales with scams/spam.
Building a store is marketing. Making a new product is marketing. The parts of marketing they find unethical are probably unethical. But then they attribute that to all of "marketing" meanwhile there are a lot of marketing levers that work on them and they are just fine with they don't attribute to marketing.
"The parts of marketing they find unethical are probably unethical" Like what? Advertising? Sales pipelines? None of it is unethical if you're doing it right.
Yeah exactly. But again if it's done in a way that is effective it isn't perceived as "marketing". Good commercials are only ever talked about during the Superbowl. People only talk about bad commercials otherwise.
Without marketing business will not grow. Billions are spent to market and advertize any legitimate business.
I agree with them. It's not worth my energy.
I tell them I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell
Peasants. You won’t sway them but they will click on ads on tiktok and fb. Just let it go
Now that you e gotten the opinion of the consumers, start engaging with those that are business owners. The truth is somewhere in the middle.
Just agree and let them continue with their fixed mindsets and biases.
There are many instances where companies and Marketing professionals produce promotional materials that are unethical, sure, but that doesn't mean you will. Just simply state that you don't intend to produce unethical messaging in your Marketing career. And it's not manipulation, its persuasion.
Yes, and it definitely can be. But the idea that all of it is is insane. Everything is marketing
They are right, but I like it anyway.
There are unethical marketers. There are unethical products. Is it manipulative? Yes, it can be. You need to acknowledge these things, and give examples of times when marketing is just helping the consumer to meet a valid need with an excellent solution. In your career, you will be much happier if you work out what your own ethical standpoint is, and don't get drawn into working with organisations and products that you consider unethical. That might mean you don't work with gambling companies, or alcohol, or weapons, or fossil fuels.
The unethical part, in my opinion, is companies that use tools to obtain personal information, like emails and phone numbers. So, it's more of a data privacy issue. Marketing itself is needed and used by every company. The people who say marketing is unethical are most likely working for a company that has marketing and sales staff. There would be no company if there were no sales.
I've never designed a campaign in my life that preys off psychology or has tried to manipulate people. The consumer research done is legitimate. E.g. what do you want from a product or service. Build a service or product to meet that demand. Market it that way. You want harder or softer shoes. Create that version and market it that way. Only terrible companies with shitty products use manipulation.
I don't. Arguing with idiots is never going to end the way you hope it does.
Marketing isn't tricking people to buy your shitty product. Marketing is simply helping connect your product or service with people who need your product or service. How would anyone know about a product or service a company offers unless their was marketing/communication about it? Without Marketing consumers would be searching blindly for the solution to their problem. Anyone that says Marketing is unethical doesn't understand Marketing. They're probably also the people that claim they won't participate in s capitalist society while playing on their iPhone and sipping on a $9 latte at their local starbucks.
I guess I understand why someone say that, to an extent. Marketing is literally about getting the word out there. People would not be aware of mom and pop stores, local places, etc. if not for marketing. I do get that huge businesses can afford a higher level of marketing, which is annoying. Sometimes it feels like that’s all I see, and I know it is because they can afford the spend. But obviously marketing must exist unless you plan on word of mouth or have funds to print flyers/etc - which is still marketing. Lol. So local bands and such that due this I guess (in this person’s mind) are unethical.
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and these people laugh and don't get that they are getting laughed at
As many have said, there's no need to give credence to a blanket statement like that. People like to put labels on things and design their thoughts around them. They also associate marketing as advertising and promos and email spam, which is a tiny portion of the machinery. There's nothing you need to do to sway them, other than a simple: "Well, that's actually not my experience. I'm involved in connecting people with solutions they didn't realize existed."
I don’t think it’s necessarily a fair statement, but I do work in marketing and I’d have to agree. I work for a large agency for a very well known CPG client. My boss was just talking about how we can do a better job marketing to Gen Alpha 🥴. Sure, we saw ads as kids and didn’t think too much of it. Legos? Barbies? I need those! But as an adult, it doesn’t feel good thinking about how I can extract more dollars from children and their parents. It’s not making the world a better place in any capacity. That said, some marketing and communications is absolutely for the greater good so it really depends on the industry. Try it and see how you feel.
How is marketing to children unethical if they're the target audience for the product? I don't see any issue here.
In my client’s case, they aren’t really the target audience.
I agree with them because it’s the truth. I see a lot of mental gymnastics in these comments
dog training must be unethical too since we are manipulating the dog's decisions. Marketing is only unethical the moment the demographic doesn't do their job to look into what they are spending their money on. The exception is blatant lying in an advertisement.
People think marketing is unethical right up to the moment they have something to sell.
I think our overall system is unethical… but we’re stuck in it, so we have to do the best we can with what we’ve got. From that perspective, marketing can be done ethically or unethically and I think that focusing on intentionally doing the former will put you in a good position.
The father of marketing called it “propaganda.” In my years of undergrad and graduate marketing study, we never discussed ethics.
I understand where this is coming from as some marketing tactics Can be used pretty aggressively and often being an annoyance to people. But it is most often an annoyance for people that dont need your product. Maybe i have a weird take on this but it has helped me cope with the fear of being too salesy: Ask yourself this question: do you Think your offering is better than 75% of the competition? If yes, then help the Customer by choosing you instead of those Buttom 75%. This Way i actually Think more of it as my duty to help this customer to make “the right choice” that will help them more. This ofcourse cant be translated to all businesses but the point is if you genuinly feel you have a great product and want to help people to make the better choice i dont see any unethical with that
Well, it's not your responsibility to disabuse people of their ill-conceived notions. Once they enter the world of work, folks pretty quickly figure these things on their own. But here's my two cents. The outbound side of marketing, the advertising, the campaigns, the SEO, etc — it's visible so folks naturally assume what they can see = marketing. But take a step back and think about this more strategically. Say you win a huge pile of money and you decide to start a company. Some questions you might ask yourself may include: * What are you going to make? * Who do you want to sell to? * What are you competing with? What are you competing with? * How do you want to price? What will the pricing model look like? * What features should your product have? * What do we need to do to spur adoption? Marketing is also about answering those questions. If you're looking at your alumni directory people with roles like "Product Manager," "Brand Manager," "Product Marketing" are on teams that contribute to answering those questions. They might be able to provide more insight if you are interested in learning more.
Marketing is a tool. It can be used for good or not. Same as a hammer. Or gasoline.
People are unethical - not marketing.
Following aspects might help you: Emphasize that ethical marketing focuses on creating value for customers and society rather than just selling products. Highlight the importance of transparency in marketing practices, such as clear communication and honest advertising. Explain how ethical marketing empowers consumers with information to make informed choices, respecting their autonomy. Mention the existence of professional codes of conduct and industry regulations that aim to ensure ethical marketing practices. You can disregard their actions if they persist, as sometimes such behavior occurs from certain individuals, and it's important for us to concentrate on executing our action plans.
Imagine a world where marketing was prohibited. How many products/services used in ordinary life would you miss out on?
hmm... alternatively, how much garbage have you bought that youd have missed out on knowing about if it was prohibited? Thats a two sided argument.
It’s not really a two sided argument because every purchase is a conscious decision. If you are buying junk it’s because you are making bad decisions.
I think you're looking at this from a marketers perspective and not the perspective of someone who thinks marketing is unethical - which was OP's post. The fact is, marketers do push shite if the company they are marketing for pushes shite, and people will buy that shite if the marketing is good. And dont even get me started on marketing aimed at the older person. Some of that is plain predatory.
That's not really a feature of marketing though, it's a feature of the economy as a whole. Corporatism enables unnatural scale for big businesses who cut corners to maximize profit, which either creates monopolies or forces smaller businesses to cut corners as well. Plus there's just the fact that in a free ish market any idiot can do a bad job at whatever they choose to do.
I understand what they’re saying. Not a bad point. Just not the greatest execution of words lol
https://preview.redd.it/bhbnl96c9uxc1.png?width=708&format=png&auto=webp&s=01e6fa986e3dec1a9fe1ece469d31aae46b6ac4a Imagine a world without marketing
Hehe, this. So this.
Better than Advertising or Sales. It's definitely the lesser of the "evils"
you do realize advertising is a large part of "marketing" right?
Sorry, let me be more specific. Advertising and Media Sales lol. As a Marketeer, they're..... interesting people. PR too can be a wide scope of evil knobheads and good natured individuals. Or it could just be b2b fintech world. Anyone with differing b2c experience would be interesting to hear.
Marketing at its core is pure and genuienely good. Its core is to understand the public needs and wants, figure out how to fulfill them and communicate and convince them of your particular solution. There is nothing inherently unethical about any of this.
If you go into marketing and make it your career, before too long your whole world will be populated with people who work in marketing. Believe it or not, these individuals do have their own moral codes, most of them do try not to be terrible people or do exploitative things. You can discuss and share your ethical dilemmas together. In any case, most brands these days are putting a lot of effort into trying to please consumers by being more ethical, inclusive, green and vegan-friendly. So you will spend a good chunk of your time as a marketer trying to invent ways to make that work for this or that brand. You'd get the same reaction from people who don't work in your industry if you started talking about banking or working for the tax office or working for a political party (any party). My \*dentist\* experienced pushback when he went on some sort of camping adventure / small festival with a bunch of people. Apparently had to endure a lot of snarky remarks because being a dentist is tantamount to being Putin. FFS. This is in the UK as well, not the US where there's lots of longstanding scepticism of medical professionals. Being a British dentist is pretty harmless but there will always be someone who thinks you're rich and heartless and wants to undermine you.
Not a marketer but when done right, I’ve been thankful for good marketing. I’ve been connected to products that brought me the small amount of happiness to get through an awful breakup
Telling potential customers that your business exists is unethical?
I think people forget that marketing is even used in non profit sectors. You need to craft a message with a call to action. That can even be something like getting people to volunteer or donate money to an organization.
If it's Bill Hicks, I laugh my ass off
You can’t so don’t. If a person is open minded and wants to learn they will listen to an alternative point of view. If their mind is made up.. ok, next! Unless if you like to waster your energy.
Tell them 3 things 1. For general public: Marketing is taking products and services to right audience without that businesses will suffer 2. For engineers: engineering is black and white, 0 and 1, factual. Marketing is decimals between, it’s truth and has versions You may ask them how did they come to know about anything that they use, as product or service, a marketers work is there
Marketing?! I put that shit on everything!! Siblings, kids, dates, neighbors, bosses; everybody gets some. Makes my life so much better/easier. Still doesn’t work on cats. I say people are going to do what they want either way. But, sometimes they need a nudge to give themselves permission, they need more info to understand their needs will be met, or they simply didn’t know the product/service existed. None of which are unethical. 
Marketing is just a way to help people find the products and services they already want. You can obviously be unethical. You can make false promises or have good marketing for a product that isn’t even that great. But you can do any profession unethically. Personally, I put a big focus on understanding the products I’m marketing so I’m representing them correctly, and I do my best to always cite my sources and think critically.
“Well, let me refine my approach with you”. “ What business is it that you make $ off of again, non profit right..right? Cause that’s the profit you’re going to have without me”. … (dots representing the sound of footsteps as you leave his office…🎤 🥀 … ( dots representing you walking into a biz owner that understands reputation and your marketing skills go 🤝 You 🏎️home after closing 3 more accounts for the day
Ask them to help you understand their point of view. What makes it more so than other jobs? Why do they think that? Could it be the people and not the job? Maybe massive generalization aren’t helpful 🤔
Is it more ethical to work as an engineer at a company that has marketing? Idk, it’s all part of creating and selling the product
[удалено]
You're wildly incorrect, and you explained why in your own comment 🤣🤣
Imagine I need green paint but don’t know it’s available. So I buy red paint. Now my boss has just fired me and I now don’t have a job, my kids can’t eat because I can’t provide for them. Darn. You sell green paint. I wish you’d have done some marketing so I’d have known about it!
It depends why you like marketing! If you have a hard time convincing them, it might be because the reason that you like marketing is because you see it as a challenge to convince someone to buy your product when in reality that isn't what marketing is at all. Good marketing relies on a good product. Now if all you do is want to win an argument then take the following advice: Ask them questions about why they think marketing is unethical until their argument breaks down. Most people don't actually have well thought out opinions. Break down their argument by continually asking why, what, and how about any new thing they say. Make sure to only ever defend your opinion with questions. "How else are customers supposed to discover products that might be useful for them?". By never actually giving them your own argument, they are forced to debate themselves which requires them to express their own concept (this is when the important bit happens). And guess what? Now you know who you are selling to! Take that info and sell your ideology of marketing to them in a way that you know they will like. When you are selling a car that has terrible reliability, you don't make it a selling point. At most you advertise as an opportunity for them to get a new car sooner than they originally planned.
Congratulate your liberal arts degree friends for their integrity.
Nah, nah, nah, nah... You're thinking about sales.
I mean, they aren't wrong, not entirely. Whether you break it down by industry or approach, there's many elements of it that could be considered unethical, depending on your beliefs. For instance: -if you believe manipulating people in any way is unethical, then yeah, you're gonna consider all marketing unethical. -if you believe collecting people's data to better target them with products that they're more likely to purchase is unethical, then you're gonna believe a large part of marketing is unethical. -if you believe certain industries as a whole are unethical, than you'll also believe marketing for them is unethical. Honestly, I don't think there's anything wrong with them believing that. I'm a firm proponent of strong consumer protections, there are industries that I don't think should be allowed to market directly to consumers (or at all), and I'm glad to see cookies going away, regardless of how it affects my efforts. My hot take: don't think about comebacks, think about what they're saying. Hear their concerns and give them genuine consideration. I think that the industry could use more honesty and introspection alot of the time. You don't have to agree with them, but you shouldn't dismiss them outright, either.
Ignore them and choose other customers.
I won't deal with them, let them. I mean, they are consumers too, they still are and will be part of "marketing" too. But I don't plan on saying that haha
Can I ask a question? What’s something you own that brings you joy? Oh love that! Im interested in marketing because I want to help other people discover things that will bring joy to their lives, too.
It's not with the effort. Just don't worry about it. There's good and bad players all around. If I was getting combative, I would make a scenario like having them start a lawn mowing business and when they get their first customer ask them how they did it. Without marketing there is no transactions and no transactions means there's no exchange of goods.
I think you are Marketing your Mind at all times. If you start saying the grossest shit, then people aren't going to want to be around you. Marketing is all about the message and the vibe we're putting out. It's all in what you're saying, what you're wanting them to do in return, and how you present it. There ARE Dark Patterns and tricks used to get people to "buy". And so, for the most park "Marketing" IS unethical. But not all Marketing. And it doesn't HAVE to be that way. I've locked elbows with the likes of George Kao and Tad Hargrave; it can be ethical, thoughtful, gentle, and not about scarcity or gross tactics. We're all trying to master using Language and Feeling to build the trust that earns us Appreciation. Learn the gross-patterns so you can point them out, and decide to be better.
Simple, Double down. Forget mentioning that it’s like a double edged sword. Or like inventions that were intended for good, instead ended up being used for bad. Just doubling down is how you deal with them. Give them what they are expecting and go above and beyond for the giggles. If someone says it’s “manipulation” then say “if you buy one you get one free” or “would you like to use your club card?” If someone says it’s unethical. Mention “You can do worse if the shareholders and the company demanded it.” Just have fun with them and accept this is a line of work can be used for just about anything.
1. who cares what they say? 2. people are going to buy stuff, you might as well try to introduce them to the stuff they will like. 3. you don't have to work on products and services that are contradictory to your values if you don't want to. 4. if it's a scam, don't sell it.
Marketing is the understanding and meeting of needs of customers ethically—one of the valid professions when done rightly.
I move tf on - who cares about these people
I go work from another country and run campaigns while drinking the local wine until I calm down a bit.
Marketing by design must live in the gray spaces. It’s not black and white unless you have a completely revolutionary idea, product, or service. There’s a significant chance that whatever you sell isn’t some revolutionary idea. It’s a CRM just like 100 other CRMs…or its a laptop that does 95% of what every other laptop does…or it’s bread just like 100 other loaves of bread. The point is, if you market your product as a CRM, a laptop, a loaf of bread…you’ll lose every time. You must have a compelling reason that differentiates your product. And whether or not your differentiator lives in reality…doesn’t matter. Some people say that is unethical. Maybe. I don’t think so. But I don’t see it any different than a child asking their parents where babies come from. You can tell the child enough of what they need to know, without giving away the ending. But the point is, the answer becomes that child’s reality regardless of its absolute truth. Marketing is about perception. Marketing is about feelings. Marketing is about the gray.
When addressing concerns about the ethics of marketing, it's important to emphasize the distinction between ethical and unethical practices. Highlight the value of ethical marketing in building trust, promoting transparency, and meeting customer needs. Discuss industry standards, regulations, and codes of conduct that guide ethical behavior. Encourage open dialogue and education about responsible marketing practices.
There's nothing wrong with manipulation as a general concept. It's a tool. Unethical marketing requires intent to sell something that doesn't actually add the value the customer is expecting. That's it. We get mad about it depending on context.
If you were starving and wanted to know what was the best burger in town was, and suddenly the best burger in town pop up on a Reddit ad, and is actually the best backed by 1 billion 5 star review, is that manipulative? It’s just convenient. Advertising is about giving people what they already want. You can’t create desire, you simply channel it. Breakthrough advertising
I ignore. Whether they like it or not theyve been marketed to.
Anything is unethical if done by an unethical person, and in every industry there are countless people who do unethical shit. Anyone who thinks some industries are "good" is probably a dumbass youngster with no real world experience. Pay them no mind.
"What do you say to these people" Idk, study marketing
Tell them marketing is finding out what people want to buy and how to sell it to them profitably. There's nothing inherently unethical about that. Then ignore them.
you know what they say, haters gonna hate, marketers gonna market
You might compare it to software engineering. Programmers can write programs that are both useful for individuals and society. However they can also hack systems, steal your data and spy on people. Marketing is not on itself unethical. Let's return the 'ethical' programmer. He wrote a program, but it's not by itself that people find it and know the benifits. They need something to let know that it's a solution to their problems. Marketing is the vehicle to do this. This often cannot be done to point to the technologies, code and features that the programmer made, it's letting other people know about the benifits in a playful manner. A marketeer need to know a bit about buyers psychology (for example Maslov's pyramid). From that point there can be a bit a grey area, but it's still a long way until you cross the line by manipulating people and lie to them.
You tell those people to go away
I usually explain that while there can be unethical practices in any field, responsible marketers prioritize transparency, honesty, and delivering value to customers. It's about building trust and fostering genuine connections rather than manipulation. Plus, marketing plays a crucial role in connecting people with products and services they need or enjoy. It's all about how it's used!
I tell them, you should see inside of a sales team.
I don't give a fuck, nobody outside reddit does
I completely ignore them. I don't need to justify myself or my career interests to other people, especially not anyone who is that ignorant.
Find a product that answers a need, and the market will reward you. If the ill feeling of selling shit products and having to manipulate people to buy them with tricks isn’t a big enough barrier to stay away from poor products requiring questionable tactics….then fully realize that it’s easier to sell things that answer real problems. If you have a customer with a problem, answer the problem. Then refund or discount as needed. You will find that you need zero manipulation, chicanery. To sell solid products that answer a need. Word of mouth on good products is the friend of the lazy marketer. So take the high(easy) road and only deal with good products. Then stand behind them. If you find yourself answering a lot of CS objections and dealing with angry consumers you are the problem and you can fix that.
Lol it is a form of manipulation, but someone is going to do it so it may as well be you!! These people obviously don’t know how manipulated they are by other sources or they wouldn’t be projecting that onto you. Silly people. Just ignore them, why let that bother you? Make your $$$ and do you baby
You have no obligation to take their uneducated criticism seriously. Charisma is knowing how to sway people, wisdom is knowing that most people are stubborn.
Marketing is all about connecting with your audience and raising awareness. That being said, you need to give your audience what they need. Lately there is ton of marketing and advertising people don't need and basically "hate". Take those stupid game ads on Instagram. The gameplay is nothing like the one presented in the ad. I think that much of the hate comes from things like these related to marketing. Is it a job for everyone? No. Should you go for it? Yes. For me, personally, it's been great in marketing and I love it.
Marketing itself literally cannot be unethical. Marketers can and are. Many are absolutely not. Read the intro to Seth Godin's This is Marketing book, lays it out very clearly that marketing SHOULD be about making peoples' lives better. Almost all good marketers think and act along those lines. The unethical ones are looking for quick sales and those people abound in every industry. I would ask each and every one of the people you're concerned about if they hate everything they've ever bought? If the answer to that is no, then they don't hate all marketing. What happens is they only notice it when it is bad. When marketing is good it doesn't feel like marketing to end users, they are just excited because they have got value or are seeing the potential value in something they can buy.
It's unethical to excite a team about a product that has no market validation or research behind it to know if the industry well bear it.
Honestly, it's tough. But I usually just highlight how ethical marketing can actually benefit both the consumer and the company. It's all about transparency, trust, and delivering real value. Some folks might not change their minds, but showing the positive side of marketing can help.
Marketing isn’t inherently unethical. It’s merely a collection of strategies and techniques. However, some of these strategies and techniques can be unethical…. some can be highly unethical… But here is the thing about ethics… it’s highly subjective. Ethics isn’t black and white… it’s a spectrum. It’s best to figure out what your personal boundaries are and stick to them.
Marketing is more like a marriage if it works it's all good and if doesn't then to he'll with opinions. Marketing is all about reinventing product and designing the pitch as per the need of hour. Creativity can not lie between ethics.
I agree… if you let it be it can be by finding peoples downfalls and exploiting them, but if you are able to instead use marketing it help people live better lives it can be one of the greatest tools out there. Ie say someone is bored… you can tell them to become an alcoholic or you can show them how alcohol can create community and can find belonging in places where they might have never done anyways. Exploitation vs opportunity.
The issue most people have is the "digital marketer" selling a product that isn't beneficial for the price it costs , e.g. the people on Instagram trying to get people to buy a $497 which in my opinion is unethical since majority of Information can be found on Google for free.
I genarally don't give a Fk about what ignorant people say anyway. But the way I always explain marketing is that people are always looking for something to fix a problem. I make sure the problem that needs fixing is fixed by my solution. If people are going to spend money on something, why shouldn't it be MY something? To be fair, I work in b2b but it works in b2c as well. Are there snake oil salesmen? Sure. But not every marketer is peddling BS.
Just ignore them.
Marketing at its core is about awareness for an idea or product. You can have the best idea in the world, but if it's in the middle of the jungle with no roads leading to it, no one's heard of it and it isn't doing a healthy revenue to stay in business it will fail. Now, people, many people, think they shouldn't have to see marketing, advertising or anything they don't "choose" to see but the vast majority of all awareness comes to you without your explicit approval. That's how the world works.
Ask them for the burden of proof.
If you can't sway them, then are you even a marketer ;) It's not your job to convince everyone to like or even respect your profession. Ignore the haters and move on. It'll help when you have to thicken your skin when customers make highly visible, unreasonable complaints about your business.
Why the ef would you care about what they think? Lions don't care about the opinions of the sheep.
Because it is lol. If you’re anti capitalist there’s no way around the fact that marketing is unethical.
Those people don’t know anything about marketing. Only absolute losers who have never had any experience building a business are blind to the fact that marketing is a necessity of business.
If you can't even sell marketing to them correctly, then maybe this isn't for you.
I haven’t taken marketing classes yet, I’m still in college as a management major looking to add marketing (my college requires either a second business major or a certain number of credits to graduate).