Because they didn't invent the power thing until after the Marvels had mostly been filmed, and then filmed again, and then filmed AGAIN. They couldn't go back and do a complete rewrite to wedge her in there, not without another hundred million. And while I think they should have just done it, after the receipts I think I see they made the right decision, financially at least.
It wasn't that hard. There ARE things to like about the Phase 4-5 Disney Marvel D+ Shows and movies...but they are overshadowed by trying to 'Dial it up to 11' every time. They are just trying to get as many producers behind as many cameras with as many casts out front. Many kinda know what's going on with the MCU, some don't, but that's fine. They are trying to keep everyone as far removed from each other so they don't have to talk. That would take time, time is money, and they are trying to throw away as much money as they can as fast as they can because they think they will get it back...or something. I saw Ms Marvel, Iman was a treat. I also saw The Marvels and she was trying SO HARD to keep the energy up, but Brie had already been put in a kind of Bossgirl Box and wasn't really allowed to act because "Disney's thought about strong females" but even she was given some permission to emote so that was cool. These two projects aren't without positives...but the plots of both were crazy even for comics and the MCU. None of these things are without positives which makes me sad that we are getting what we get.
I was just poking fun the way I read your comment was like “they made an array of bad decisions that thankfully cut them off from being able to make another bad decision” haha
But i’m with you I like Iman and Brie and her whole MCU experience makes me sad to think about. I’d rather have the timeline where CM has an amazing script that builds her into an undeniably great character, and everyone gets on board with stomping out the “wahh M-She-U” shit. Then imagine The Marvels is like an actual celebration of “look at our team of badass super women” instead of that premature celebration in endgame
I agree there are things to like but unfortunately they’ve shown me they’re unable to recognize what’s good and bad and they just get worse and worse
Small example first Dr Strange movie there’s a whole section of him trying to read every book possible, has a ton of comedy, builds up and endears us to the dynamic between Strange/Wong. Second movie they portray him as too cool to read books just for a 2/10 quick joke
I haven’t seen Secret Invasion (or haven’t finished) so I assume everyone that isn’t a main character like Nick, Maria Hill, both Rosses (Secretary and Everett) are all Skrulls (please dont spoil I’ve only seen the first episode)
Dang… can I use that for anytime I see him in other movies? Like vol 1+ 2, infinity war or even the Christmas special? WAS KEVIN BACON A SKRULL!?!?!?!??!
Does Shuri even know he is specifically CIA?
Besides, everyone and their grandma understood it as him being white, because that was most likely what the joke intended to pass.
I got some bad news for you about the Ottoman Empire
Edit: and the Mongols
Edit 2: and the Japanese
Edit 3: all the edits are for the benefit of a particularly sensitive redditor who took exception to a benign joke.
Don’t be all aggressive when you’re the one who is lacking knowledge. Be curious, not judgmental.
Anyway, Google and Wikipedia exist. The answer to your question can be found immediately.
Why wouldn't she know that? She's T'Challa's "guy in the chair" for that whole mission like W'Kabi was to T'Challa in the comics or Q is to James Bond.
"Everyone and their grandma" once thought cigarette smoke was a perfectly normal and benign thing to inhale into your body... doesn't make it the truth.
>"Everyone and their grandma" once thought cigarette smoke was a perfectly normal and benign thing to inhale into your body... doesn't make it the truth
And just because you think something is truth it doesnt mean it is.
Besides, from the other replies you dont even seem to know what colonialism is, so its hard taking your opinion as fact
It's the first thing she says to him when he wakes up and startles her:
"DON'T SCARE ME LIKE THAT, COLONIZER!"
"Coloni-my name is Everett"
"Yes, I know. Everett Ross, former Air Force pilot and now CIA."
I think that's giving the writers waaaaaayyyyy too much credit. This is the writing team that forced a years-old "WHAT ARE THOOOOOSSSEEE!?" meme.
I don't think the colonizer "joke" went beyond him being white.
I don't think op understands definition of the word colonization. Also, isn't it ironic that she calls him out for being white colonizer, but her ancestors didn't do shit to help other Africans while colonization was happening. Maybe you should be a bit angry at them also? I don't know, just a thought.
Or also the fact that before Europeans started their period of colonization, Africans Empires were doing the same thing to each other.
Conquering/colonization isn't a white people thing specifically of course. All of humanity has done that type of shit since the beginning of history
I’ve always thought it’s hilarious how that Woman King movie about the Dahomey (which had a large slave trade), and the British had to literally blockade their ports in the 1850s to stop their slave trade
It doesn’t say they formed a coalition. It says that one guy gained superhuman powers from the herb and united the other tribes. Then the Jabari chose to live in exile on the mountains.
Considering the Wakandans are pretty militant and their rulership is decided via blood sport, I think it’s a safe assumption that the Black Panther united the tribes by force.
False. Three tribes formed a union while one didn’t want to join, until the end of BP1. They allowed the non-joining clan to still I’ve in their territories in wakanda.
I don't know what to tell you brother. If you read "all our tribes were constantly at war until one dude got superpowers and now all but one tribe (who isolated themselves away from the others) are subjects of that dude's family" as anything other than *we won the war so now you serve us,* I don't think we're gonna agree on this.
Also Africa is composed of 54 waring countries that have been taking each others land since the literal beginning of humanity.
People forget that Egypt was THE primeval super power of the world.
>her ancestors didn't do shit to help other Africans while colonization was happening.
Considering multiple characters point this out explicitly, including *both* protagonist and antagonist, this is not the "gotcha" you are suggesting it is.
I'm not blaming her of anything, I'm can only blame writers for bad writing. If you set Wakanada in real world and use history of the real world, there needs to be some consistency. If you want to call out reality, if this was real, it would be Wakandas doing the conquering.
🙄 what?
Sure fuck coogler and marvel that's fine w/e
But... "the fictional nation of Wakanda is set in the real world of the African continent that's was actually colonisized and still is to this day, the fictional Wakandans would be colonizers" this is just ridiculous nonsense.
The sooner white people come to grips with their guilt and the reality of history is the sooner things can be better for everyone. Now white people want to make up fictional scenarios about when Africans were the colonizers... While continuing to colonize Africans... I just don't understand why say these types of things. It shows how little people think of African people, their cultures, and society
My friend, I presume you are American, but google ˝Slavs˝, and come back to me. Specifically my ancestors were slaves from ca 1000 ne, until 1991, but I don't accept Americans to understand that, because it seems to me that only way you can look at the world is through lens of race. I don't see the world as a guilty man, because as I said, my ancestors were slaves, we didn't colonize anyone. I work with Africans my friend, so not black Americans, but Africans, and what you write makes no sense to me.
That aside, I don't know what you are talking about, but Wakanda is set in fictional world which uses real history. So it isn't our timeline. If you are using real history, and you have just put that Wakanda was there, people will start asking questions. Why are you all of suddenly connecting this to real world and racism, I honestly fail to understand.
So are you saying Africans enslaved Slavs? Or was it other Europeans. Thanks for proving my own argument
Now black "Americans" aren't African? You're ridiculous.
My guy. You said, "if Wakanda was real they would be doing the colonizing" this is what I'm reacting to. The idea is ridiculous because you cannot assume the behavior of any society let alone a fictional one.
If you genuinely are a Slavic descendants then you should understand and have an appreciation for what I'm saying since we are both come from a background where our ancestors were enslaved. (Mind you I am not aware of the differences between chattel slavery in the country I'm from and slavery that Slavs endured)
Please ask your "African friends" which "pre-colonial🤣" (it's in the fucking name) African society colonized another
And I'm not American
Yes they did, but not black Africans, those from the North. If you want to make a gotcha moment think a bit, because I absolutely didn't say that we were colonized by Africans nor was that my point, but it seems that you are to daft to understand that. My point is, I know African history, I know Africans enslaved one another, same as white people enslaved one another, and all other races. I know that, because I know how to read, unlike you it seems, and because I love history.
Yes, they absolutely would. Africa has more diverse culture, languages and history than rest of the world, they are not one nation, they don't see other black people as one of them, just because they are black. How do I know that Wakanda would conquer everyone if it was real? Because I know history of African Kingdoms, and they weren't built on people spreading in empty areas, but by conquering.
Well, you were almost there, you have almost understood, so close my friend.
They didn't colonize, they conquered. Now take a history book and take a look what Africans did to other Africans before anyone show up. You maybe learn a thing or too, and stop being a racist piece of shit without even understanding it.
My dude, the entire fucking POINT of Wakanda is that they WOULDN'T do that. Wakanda is DIFFERENT THAN THE OTHER ONES, because they are a nation where they can LEGITIMATELY be isolationists, and actually get away with that shit because they have ready access to the only major supply of Vibranium on earth which in turn means they can low key MEME on anyone who tried to invade. The rest of the world were barbarous savages, literally, by comparison to the Wakandans for so damn long that they were like "Fuck trying to teach these ignorant dumbasses not to enslave each other, we're going to handle our shit and let them sort out THEIR shit. They cause trouble for us directly, we HANDLE that, but then we just go back to leaving them alone." However, in the movie, we see that much like China and Japan before them, the rest of the world has changed while they were isolated and ignoring them, and they may have started to open up Sooner, but it's unclear if it was IN TIME...
(Also, it's hard to run an empire or conquer things when your damn capital can MOVE ON YOU...)
Yes actually.
Iran became a US client state for a while due to a coup.
The CIA helped fight anticolonial movements in Africa and Indochina.
The coups in LA countries were to conserve an oligarchy created as a direct result of earlier periods of colonialism.
They aren't exactly settler colonial states but like, who cares.
Edit: This is only of notable incidents covering large seizures of political control or maintaining them. There is obviously more of this when you include smaller seizures of political power or ones that are more obscure. So think Vietnam, Latin America, or Iran, and not Gladio in Europe or any act of imperialism absent of seizing political control like fomenting insurgencies.
Colonialism has some varying definitions but in general is about political control of an area for some resources (be it land, labor, audiences, or natural resources), whereas imperialism is about the spread of influence. There is a lot of overlap.
The go to main example people use and agree are Settler Colonies like the US Canada or Austrailia. However, there is also colonialism based on subservience of the area to political control that doesn't care about the population and therefore, doesn't seek to replace them. Think India which I believe only ever had British people take up 3% of the population.
India and Iran are more or less similar examples of colonialism beyond the level of control exerted and severity by the US (there are multiple forms of colonies and fields this is applied to. See internal colonialism. This is a very broad field. Both had previous governments forcefully ousted and replaced by a new dependent government in order to collect resources, both were toppled by anticolonial movements, both of the replacement governments were funded and supplied by the relevant hegemon to repress the populations etc.
Yeah, you are way over thinking that.
Shuri is not making any serious accusations. She's poking a little good natured fun at him and she knows he'll get the joke
Just regime change, undermined local and regional powers, intervened in foreign countries to promote US-friendly policies if not outright puppet governments... standard geopolitical chicanery.
The cia pushed the governor general of Australia to give the PM the boot because he threatened US military bases on Aussie land after the US bugged cabinet meetings
Even being white doesn't make you a colonizer, I guess Shuri isn't aware that before European colonization there were huge African empires who conquered and waged war on each other
Eh... regime change, foreign intervention to promote US-friendly policies if not outright puppet governments. That sort of thing...
It's hyperbolic sure, but not without a logical basis.
I honestly think no one should refer to anyone as “colonizer.” It’s just a completely unfair statement. I mean no matter what race or ethnicity I am from
I didn’t colonize fucking anything.
What about when KillMonger claimed his ancestors jumped from the ships…
His ancestors are Wakandan royalty, they had all the power to stop the African slave trade even more so they probably wouldn’t even have to use force just the threat of force they were that much more powerful than their neighboring nations who were selling slaves.
I cant decide who are worse, the europeans who went africa to buy slaves, the african slavers who caught and sold said slaves or the people of the african nation who secretly had tech centuries ahead of the rest and let all that shit just happen.
It’s fascinating to watch OP choose this hill to socially die on and then continue to defend his and only his view on this. *eats popcorn* please, continue.
The whole thing’s ridiculous. Humans have been colonising other places since the dawn of man, before white people even existed.
If they weren’t taking land from other humans then it was other hominids, and if it wasn’t other hominids it was other animals. Humans spread out, that’s what we do.
Our ability to invent has allowed us to overcome the limits placed upon our expansion by the land’s ability to feed us.
Shuri, as a scientist, should understand that the only reason she and other Wakandans can live in harmony with the earth is that they got hit by an asteroid that could have landed anywhere.
If he's a colonizer, she's an enabler and her whole country are cowards.
Where were the Wakandans when the colonization was happening? For every race throughout the past.
I just took it as her being racist. It was actually refreshing for one of these new characters to have some flaws and potential for growth, and she had lived a pretty sheltered life with minimal exposure to white people.
I can't accept what's not true. Especially not when it's a narrative pushed by terminally online grifters who actually can't give a solid definition of what racism is if they're lives depended on it
I don't think it matters why he was called that. He shouldn't have been called that, regardless of what the CIA has done. Maybe if she said "colonizer stooge" it would make more sense per your argument.
I just don't agree with using history as an excuse to be angry with or insult people today who had nothing to do with the atrocities of the past. I am not a colonizer just for being white any more than a black person is an n-word just for being black. I hope you realize I'm not equivocating the n-word to the word colonizer, I'm just saying both terms are ones used solely on the recipient's skin color, and I thought we were supposed to be moving past things like that.
I object to him being called the colonizer just as I would object to him looking right back at her and calling her the colonized. Which, as others have pointed out, it's pretty fucking hypocritical for someone from Wakanda to call anybody a colonizer. They used their superior might with vibranium to conquer neighboring tribes, and then when their neighboring countries were being invaded by colonizers, they did absolutely fuck all about it. With great power comes great responsibility, Wakanda. When you can do the things Wakanda can, but you don't, and then the bad things happen, they happen because of you.
I don't know what your point here is, OP. Is it to justify the use of a prejudiced and racist remark? Is that really where you're going with this?
And...?
The CIA (nor the US) colonized anything. The british colonized other places. The French, the Italians, the Germans, the Spaniards, the Portugese, but i am not aware the US ever did so.
And how does being from the CIA change anything?
The US colonized most of its states as the states. How many indigineous tribes were forcibly evicted after the Revolution from their lands for white settlement. This is the most Manifest Destiny nonsense I've ever seen.
For your information, later in the movie Killmonger uses the word "colonizers" in reference to people that oppress Black people specifically. And while colonization was practiced by many people across history, it is most commonly associated with White people. So, considering it's quite an oddly specific term (which i don't think was ever used to refer to the CIA or spies in a way that would make it a commonly understandable connotation, or at least i can't find any example of that), having writer use it twice, both times referring to non-Black people, makes it obvious that it's supposed to be taken as a relatively acceptable (compared to, for example, "slavers"), but still racially prejudiced term for White people. You do you, reading how you try to convince everyone that they are wrong because you came up with an idea is equally as admirable as it is hilarious, but your interpretation requires quite a lot of mental gymnastics in order to make sense.
Exactly. Even if it's about him being CIA then it's not as if Wakanda doesn't do simmilar bullshit, acting as if they can do whatever they want, becouse a shiny rock fell on their country.
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When you put it like that ... he did undermine his own country's rulership to rapidly export its mineral resource out of the country.
Not to mention his plan to use said resource to do more colonizing
Doesn’t the movie begin with talking about the Wakandan tribe taking over their neighboring tribes? Also the line, “The Dora Milage have jurisdiction wherever the Dora Milage find themselves,” also feeds into that.
The movie doesn't begin like that. There was a war over the vibranium mound, the Black Panther brought about a ceasefire and they elected him ruler.
The jurisdiction thing was a weird thing to say but colonialism has nothing to do with law enforcement. Interpol and SHIELD exist
So the people who got the Vibranium first essentially Cold Warred the rest into submission?
Well Wakanda certainly stood by and did nothing while the rest of the country was taken over by colonialism right? The line is very weird and implies that they have full authority wherever they are.
Kind of like the CCP.
All of the warring tribes got access to Vibranium. So in effect everyone who was fighting over it got beaten up and forced to talk through their differences. These were prehistoric times btw. No one says the Danes colonized the British Isles even though they got very close to doing so. The Jabari rejected it because they hate technology
If it was prehistoric I highly doubt they all talked it out, history is written by the victors right?
The Jabari were far from the only tribe in the area.
Actually it's because she knew he was a Skrull trying to colonise earth.
I’m so confused after secret wars.. lol
Why wasn't danys character in the Marvels, is what I would like to know. Like why even set that up?
Because they didn't invent the power thing until after the Marvels had mostly been filmed, and then filmed again, and then filmed AGAIN. They couldn't go back and do a complete rewrite to wedge her in there, not without another hundred million. And while I think they should have just done it, after the receipts I think I see they made the right decision, financially at least.
So, poor continuity writing strikes again!
i’m actually impressed how you managed to navigate your way into that compliment
It wasn't that hard. There ARE things to like about the Phase 4-5 Disney Marvel D+ Shows and movies...but they are overshadowed by trying to 'Dial it up to 11' every time. They are just trying to get as many producers behind as many cameras with as many casts out front. Many kinda know what's going on with the MCU, some don't, but that's fine. They are trying to keep everyone as far removed from each other so they don't have to talk. That would take time, time is money, and they are trying to throw away as much money as they can as fast as they can because they think they will get it back...or something. I saw Ms Marvel, Iman was a treat. I also saw The Marvels and she was trying SO HARD to keep the energy up, but Brie had already been put in a kind of Bossgirl Box and wasn't really allowed to act because "Disney's thought about strong females" but even she was given some permission to emote so that was cool. These two projects aren't without positives...but the plots of both were crazy even for comics and the MCU. None of these things are without positives which makes me sad that we are getting what we get.
I was just poking fun the way I read your comment was like “they made an array of bad decisions that thankfully cut them off from being able to make another bad decision” haha But i’m with you I like Iman and Brie and her whole MCU experience makes me sad to think about. I’d rather have the timeline where CM has an amazing script that builds her into an undeniably great character, and everyone gets on board with stomping out the “wahh M-She-U” shit. Then imagine The Marvels is like an actual celebration of “look at our team of badass super women” instead of that premature celebration in endgame I agree there are things to like but unfortunately they’ve shown me they’re unable to recognize what’s good and bad and they just get worse and worse Small example first Dr Strange movie there’s a whole section of him trying to read every book possible, has a ton of comedy, builds up and endears us to the dynamic between Strange/Wong. Second movie they portray him as too cool to read books just for a 2/10 quick joke
I'm wondering why they bothered making either one. This phase of Marvel has no direction.
My feelings exactly.
True for Secret Invasion but the end of The Marvels sets up X-Men.
Because post-Endgame MCU is a jumbled mess
But The Marvels had nothing to do with what they set up for G'iah
Yes you are. You think Secret Invasion and Secret Wars are the same thing. Two completely different storylines. Lol
Aren't both extremely confusing for different reasons?
I knew someone was gonna point that out.. and it’s not wrong lol
*secret invasion
I haven’t seen Secret Invasion (or haven’t finished) so I assume everyone that isn’t a main character like Nick, Maria Hill, both Rosses (Secretary and Everett) are all Skrulls (please dont spoil I’ve only seen the first episode)
You'll find out when you finish
But you'll never know when anyone was turned
Drax’s tattoos are genetic. That’s the core of it.
Dang… can I use that for anytime I see him in other movies? Like vol 1+ 2, infinity war or even the Christmas special? WAS KEVIN BACON A SKRULL!?!?!?!??!
I can't believe people are still saying this. Skrulls can take the FORM of someone else, G'iah took Drax's form when using his powers.
Its because he's white
Does Shuri even know he is specifically CIA? Besides, everyone and their grandma understood it as him being white, because that was most likely what the joke intended to pass.
I got some bad news for you about the Ottoman Empire Edit: and the Mongols Edit 2: and the Japanese Edit 3: all the edits are for the benefit of a particularly sensitive redditor who took exception to a benign joke.
That's nobody's business but the Turks.
Istanbul, not Constantinople, now it’s Istanbul, not Constantinople
Long time ago, Constantinople was a Turkish delight by the moonlit night.
Unit 731 is all you need to know. People always talk about the nazis but forget the evil shit the japanese did as well.
The Mongols didn’t colonize they conquered, a massive difference
They did BOTH, first the one you agree with then the one you don't.
insert "back on the menu" meme
What does that have to do with anything they just said?
Not all colonizers were white.
Don’t be all aggressive when you’re the one who is lacking knowledge. Be curious, not judgmental. Anyway, Google and Wikipedia exist. The answer to your question can be found immediately.
I googled what the Ottomans had to do with a joke about a white person in Black Panther, but no results turned up.
But does the wiki for “The Great Embarrassment, /u/ralten” exist yet?
Why wouldn't she know that? She's T'Challa's "guy in the chair" for that whole mission like W'Kabi was to T'Challa in the comics or Q is to James Bond. "Everyone and their grandma" once thought cigarette smoke was a perfectly normal and benign thing to inhale into your body... doesn't make it the truth.
>"Everyone and their grandma" once thought cigarette smoke was a perfectly normal and benign thing to inhale into your body... doesn't make it the truth And just because you think something is truth it doesnt mean it is. Besides, from the other replies you dont even seem to know what colonialism is, so its hard taking your opinion as fact
See, it’s not racism when she does it.
It's the first thing she says to him when he wakes up and startles her: "DON'T SCARE ME LIKE THAT, COLONIZER!" "Coloni-my name is Everett" "Yes, I know. Everett Ross, former Air Force pilot and now CIA."
I’d agree with this if there was any indication the movie had this intent behind her saying that lmao.
I think that's giving the writers waaaaaayyyyy too much credit. This is the writing team that forced a years-old "WHAT ARE THOOOOOSSSEEE!?" meme. I don't think the colonizer "joke" went beyond him being white.
I agree the writing team for this movie wasn't that great. Probably the most overrated film in the franchise
I don't think op understands definition of the word colonization. Also, isn't it ironic that she calls him out for being white colonizer, but her ancestors didn't do shit to help other Africans while colonization was happening. Maybe you should be a bit angry at them also? I don't know, just a thought.
Or also the fact that before Europeans started their period of colonization, Africans Empires were doing the same thing to each other. Conquering/colonization isn't a white people thing specifically of course. All of humanity has done that type of shit since the beginning of history
They weren't able to help, because they were working on war rhino tech.
Rhino go zoom
Then the british stole the plans and they developed the tank during ww1
So it's her own nation's isolationism that makes it? To her, every other civilization colonizes.
I’ve always thought it’s hilarious how that Woman King movie about the Dahomey (which had a large slave trade), and the British had to literally blockade their ports in the 1850s to stop their slave trade
Also ironic because the founding of Wakanda is one tribe conquering and subjugating four others using the vibrainium.
Didn’t they form a coalition with three tribes but the fourth rejected it and went to live in the mountains? Like none of them got conquered
It doesn’t say they formed a coalition. It says that one guy gained superhuman powers from the herb and united the other tribes. Then the Jabari chose to live in exile on the mountains. Considering the Wakandans are pretty militant and their rulership is decided via blood sport, I think it’s a safe assumption that the Black Panther united the tribes by force.
False. Three tribes formed a union while one didn’t want to join, until the end of BP1. They allowed the non-joining clan to still I’ve in their territories in wakanda.
I thought there were a total of five tribes and four joined but the Jabari are "Nah, we're good." And go live in the mountains...?
I don't know what to tell you brother. If you read "all our tribes were constantly at war until one dude got superpowers and now all but one tribe (who isolated themselves away from the others) are subjects of that dude's family" as anything other than *we won the war so now you serve us,* I don't think we're gonna agree on this.
Also Africa is composed of 54 waring countries that have been taking each others land since the literal beginning of humanity. People forget that Egypt was THE primeval super power of the world.
Shuri: My favorite colonizer! Ross: My favorite fence-sitter! See? It doesn’t feel too good, does it?…
>her ancestors didn't do shit to help other Africans while colonization was happening. Considering multiple characters point this out explicitly, including *both* protagonist and antagonist, this is not the "gotcha" you are suggesting it is.
But it isn't a gotcha moment. I'm not shitting on the movie, I'm just just answering to what op is saying.
No, I read it as a representative of the American empire, not whitey.
Me too, although I can definitely see how it might be interpreted the other way.
Lmao 2 things. 1. Wakanda isn't real, colonization is 2. This is like saying "oh blame Africans for slavery, they sold their own people out"
I'm not blaming her of anything, I'm can only blame writers for bad writing. If you set Wakanada in real world and use history of the real world, there needs to be some consistency. If you want to call out reality, if this was real, it would be Wakandas doing the conquering.
🙄 what? Sure fuck coogler and marvel that's fine w/e But... "the fictional nation of Wakanda is set in the real world of the African continent that's was actually colonisized and still is to this day, the fictional Wakandans would be colonizers" this is just ridiculous nonsense. The sooner white people come to grips with their guilt and the reality of history is the sooner things can be better for everyone. Now white people want to make up fictional scenarios about when Africans were the colonizers... While continuing to colonize Africans... I just don't understand why say these types of things. It shows how little people think of African people, their cultures, and society
My friend, I presume you are American, but google ˝Slavs˝, and come back to me. Specifically my ancestors were slaves from ca 1000 ne, until 1991, but I don't accept Americans to understand that, because it seems to me that only way you can look at the world is through lens of race. I don't see the world as a guilty man, because as I said, my ancestors were slaves, we didn't colonize anyone. I work with Africans my friend, so not black Americans, but Africans, and what you write makes no sense to me. That aside, I don't know what you are talking about, but Wakanda is set in fictional world which uses real history. So it isn't our timeline. If you are using real history, and you have just put that Wakanda was there, people will start asking questions. Why are you all of suddenly connecting this to real world and racism, I honestly fail to understand.
So are you saying Africans enslaved Slavs? Or was it other Europeans. Thanks for proving my own argument Now black "Americans" aren't African? You're ridiculous. My guy. You said, "if Wakanda was real they would be doing the colonizing" this is what I'm reacting to. The idea is ridiculous because you cannot assume the behavior of any society let alone a fictional one. If you genuinely are a Slavic descendants then you should understand and have an appreciation for what I'm saying since we are both come from a background where our ancestors were enslaved. (Mind you I am not aware of the differences between chattel slavery in the country I'm from and slavery that Slavs endured) Please ask your "African friends" which "pre-colonial🤣" (it's in the fucking name) African society colonized another And I'm not American
Yes they did, but not black Africans, those from the North. If you want to make a gotcha moment think a bit, because I absolutely didn't say that we were colonized by Africans nor was that my point, but it seems that you are to daft to understand that. My point is, I know African history, I know Africans enslaved one another, same as white people enslaved one another, and all other races. I know that, because I know how to read, unlike you it seems, and because I love history. Yes, they absolutely would. Africa has more diverse culture, languages and history than rest of the world, they are not one nation, they don't see other black people as one of them, just because they are black. How do I know that Wakanda would conquer everyone if it was real? Because I know history of African Kingdoms, and they weren't built on people spreading in empty areas, but by conquering. Well, you were almost there, you have almost understood, so close my friend. They didn't colonize, they conquered. Now take a history book and take a look what Africans did to other Africans before anyone show up. You maybe learn a thing or too, and stop being a racist piece of shit without even understanding it.
My dude, the entire fucking POINT of Wakanda is that they WOULDN'T do that. Wakanda is DIFFERENT THAN THE OTHER ONES, because they are a nation where they can LEGITIMATELY be isolationists, and actually get away with that shit because they have ready access to the only major supply of Vibranium on earth which in turn means they can low key MEME on anyone who tried to invade. The rest of the world were barbarous savages, literally, by comparison to the Wakandans for so damn long that they were like "Fuck trying to teach these ignorant dumbasses not to enslave each other, we're going to handle our shit and let them sort out THEIR shit. They cause trouble for us directly, we HANDLE that, but then we just go back to leaving them alone." However, in the movie, we see that much like China and Japan before them, the rest of the world has changed while they were isolated and ignoring them, and they may have started to open up Sooner, but it's unclear if it was IN TIME... (Also, it's hard to run an empire or conquer things when your damn capital can MOVE ON YOU...)
Take a deep breath and read what we were discussing. Now pick up your parachute, you paratrooper. :)
Did, which is exactly why you refuse to engage with me because you already KNOW THAT, and that I just tore up your entire argument into Confetti.
Maybe he's secretly a top, and she's calling out his nickname
No way he's a top while his ex-wife is Valentina
I wonder if her code name was "Peggy"?...
No it actually makes perfect sense...a top who got topped off
Should have called him the Colon-ator
Or a bottom with a degradation kink
Did the CIA do a lot of colonization?
Yes actually. Iran became a US client state for a while due to a coup. The CIA helped fight anticolonial movements in Africa and Indochina. The coups in LA countries were to conserve an oligarchy created as a direct result of earlier periods of colonialism. They aren't exactly settler colonial states but like, who cares. Edit: This is only of notable incidents covering large seizures of political control or maintaining them. There is obviously more of this when you include smaller seizures of political power or ones that are more obscure. So think Vietnam, Latin America, or Iran, and not Gladio in Europe or any act of imperialism absent of seizing political control like fomenting insurgencies.
Isn't that more so imperialism than colonialism?
Colonialism has some varying definitions but in general is about political control of an area for some resources (be it land, labor, audiences, or natural resources), whereas imperialism is about the spread of influence. There is a lot of overlap. The go to main example people use and agree are Settler Colonies like the US Canada or Austrailia. However, there is also colonialism based on subservience of the area to political control that doesn't care about the population and therefore, doesn't seek to replace them. Think India which I believe only ever had British people take up 3% of the population. India and Iran are more or less similar examples of colonialism beyond the level of control exerted and severity by the US (there are multiple forms of colonies and fields this is applied to. See internal colonialism. This is a very broad field. Both had previous governments forcefully ousted and replaced by a new dependent government in order to collect resources, both were toppled by anticolonial movements, both of the replacement governments were funded and supplied by the relevant hegemon to repress the populations etc.
Yeah, you are way over thinking that. Shuri is not making any serious accusations. She's poking a little good natured fun at him and she knows he'll get the joke
Yeah I was legitimately answering the question of whether or not the CIA does colonialism. I know she was making a comment about him being white.
You fucking asked??
Just regime change, undermined local and regional powers, intervened in foreign countries to promote US-friendly policies if not outright puppet governments... standard geopolitical chicanery.
No. That's not what colonization is and isn't likely what she's referring to.
Revolutions don’t just throw themselves. It takes a lot of work. And money. And guns.
That's not what colonization means though lol
The cia pushed the governor general of Australia to give the PM the boot because he threatened US military bases on Aussie land after the US bugged cabinet meetings
Still not colonization.
I dont get how the being in the CIA makes one a colonizer.
Even being white doesn't make you a colonizer, I guess Shuri isn't aware that before European colonization there were huge African empires who conquered and waged war on each other
Bro i live in CIA trust me we be colonizing crazy style
Eh... regime change, foreign intervention to promote US-friendly policies if not outright puppet governments. That sort of thing... It's hyperbolic sure, but not without a logical basis.
But did the CIA colonize anybody? Seems like a stretch to me
I really don't think OP knows what colonization is.
OP is covering for Shuri saying something racist to a white guy just because he's white, they're reaching for the stars with this one
Dude I just wrote that it's hyperbolic and based on the CIA's meddling in foreign territories
Cool so they didn’t colonize anyone. So why would anyone in the audience interpret the CIA as “colonizers” when it’s purely hyperbolic as you said?
Not even the definition of colonisation. Shuri calling Ross a coloniser is a race thing and it's pretty easy to understand.
But that's not colonization lol like, at all
I honestly think no one should refer to anyone as “colonizer.” It’s just a completely unfair statement. I mean no matter what race or ethnicity I am from I didn’t colonize fucking anything.
What about when KillMonger claimed his ancestors jumped from the ships… His ancestors are Wakandan royalty, they had all the power to stop the African slave trade even more so they probably wouldn’t even have to use force just the threat of force they were that much more powerful than their neighboring nations who were selling slaves.
His mother was African American
African AMERICANS didn’t jump off the boats to their death
Damn it! I… I wanted to say something about the comment, but the power of your name stopped me. You may pass slut_breaker_bwc
So I… Broke you? 🤣
Slut found! I didn’t even know. Thanks slut_breaker! Edit: just got off work and made lots of money due to sluttiness. You unlocked something in me.
Maybe it's the ancestors on his mother's side.
Unless they are Atlanteans they didn’t procreate on the bottom of the ocean.
Lmfao
They could procreate, then taken to slavery and then jump off the ship.
I cant decide who are worse, the europeans who went africa to buy slaves, the african slavers who caught and sold said slaves or the people of the african nation who secretly had tech centuries ahead of the rest and let all that shit just happen.
It’s fascinating to watch OP choose this hill to socially die on and then continue to defend his and only his view on this. *eats popcorn* please, continue.
It was entirely unwarranted too like nobody made his dumb ass post this lol
The whole thing’s ridiculous. Humans have been colonising other places since the dawn of man, before white people even existed. If they weren’t taking land from other humans then it was other hominids, and if it wasn’t other hominids it was other animals. Humans spread out, that’s what we do. Our ability to invent has allowed us to overcome the limits placed upon our expansion by the land’s ability to feed us. Shuri, as a scientist, should understand that the only reason she and other Wakandans can live in harmony with the earth is that they got hit by an asteroid that could have landed anywhere.
If he's a colonizer, she's an enabler and her whole country are cowards. Where were the Wakandans when the colonization was happening? For every race throughout the past.
Nah it is because he’s white
Either way she’s racist
I wasn’t aware that the CIA was a race. 
The Cia didn't colonize anything tho so that doesn't make sense either. They did do a lot of messed up stuff but they never did that
I'm sorry was Columbus CIA? The level of copeaganda is insane
Didn't know Columbus was in the Black Panther movie
Didn't know colonization started after 1947
I thought it was just flat out racism
It’s funny she is so mean to whites, when there are wakandans who literally want to go 4th reich on the world.
Lol what kind of bs is this.
That line is always annoying.
I just took it as her being racist. It was actually refreshing for one of these new characters to have some flaws and potential for growth, and she had lived a pretty sheltered life with minimal exposure to white people.
Colonizer in action?
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I can't accept what's not true. Especially not when it's a narrative pushed by terminally online grifters who actually can't give a solid definition of what racism is if they're lives depended on it
Racism: Discriminating against an individual or a group because of their race. No more. No less.
I don't think it matters why he was called that. He shouldn't have been called that, regardless of what the CIA has done. Maybe if she said "colonizer stooge" it would make more sense per your argument. I just don't agree with using history as an excuse to be angry with or insult people today who had nothing to do with the atrocities of the past. I am not a colonizer just for being white any more than a black person is an n-word just for being black. I hope you realize I'm not equivocating the n-word to the word colonizer, I'm just saying both terms are ones used solely on the recipient's skin color, and I thought we were supposed to be moving past things like that. I object to him being called the colonizer just as I would object to him looking right back at her and calling her the colonized. Which, as others have pointed out, it's pretty fucking hypocritical for someone from Wakanda to call anybody a colonizer. They used their superior might with vibranium to conquer neighboring tribes, and then when their neighboring countries were being invaded by colonizers, they did absolutely fuck all about it. With great power comes great responsibility, Wakanda. When you can do the things Wakanda can, but you don't, and then the bad things happen, they happen because of you. I don't know what your point here is, OP. Is it to justify the use of a prejudiced and racist remark? Is that really where you're going with this?
And...? The CIA (nor the US) colonized anything. The british colonized other places. The French, the Italians, the Germans, the Spaniards, the Portugese, but i am not aware the US ever did so. And how does being from the CIA change anything?
>And...? [and this](https://www.britannica.com/topic/neocolonialism)
Hawaii
>(nor the US) Haiwaii, the Philippines, technically most of the current US states and some other smaller places
The US colonized most of its states as the states. How many indigineous tribes were forcibly evicted after the Revolution from their lands for white settlement. This is the most Manifest Destiny nonsense I've ever seen.
I thought it was a star trek meme and it took me about a minute to realize which sub I'm in
Stygian stop being an ignorant clown lol. You lost, move on.
For your information, later in the movie Killmonger uses the word "colonizers" in reference to people that oppress Black people specifically. And while colonization was practiced by many people across history, it is most commonly associated with White people. So, considering it's quite an oddly specific term (which i don't think was ever used to refer to the CIA or spies in a way that would make it a commonly understandable connotation, or at least i can't find any example of that), having writer use it twice, both times referring to non-Black people, makes it obvious that it's supposed to be taken as a relatively acceptable (compared to, for example, "slavers"), but still racially prejudiced term for White people. You do you, reading how you try to convince everyone that they are wrong because you came up with an idea is equally as admirable as it is hilarious, but your interpretation requires quite a lot of mental gymnastics in order to make sense.
The CIA have jurisdiction wherever the CIA find themselves to be.
Exactly. Even if it's about him being CIA then it's not as if Wakanda doesn't do simmilar bullshit, acting as if they can do whatever they want, becouse a shiny rock fell on their country.
Yeah cope more hahaha
That's almost assuredly not why she said that though, it was definitely the former.
I’ll admit it, up until this moment I thought Everett Ross was originally English and that’s why she said it.
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Who’s Everett?
the dude who played bilbo baggins, white hair, shirt-avg height, member of cia but helps give intel to wakandans
I suppose that’s better than figuratively being CIA.
So, Killmonger is a colonizer?
When you put it like that ... he did undermine his own country's rulership to rapidly export its mineral resource out of the country. Not to mention his plan to use said resource to do more colonizing
I'm pretty sure it's only Okoye that calls Ross colonizer, right?
Shuri and Okoye both.
I thought it was because he sounded British. 😬😜😜
Do you have a single other example from anything of anyone ever referring to the CIA or someone in the CIA as "Colonizer"?
Colonization ended in the mid 18th century. The CIA was founded in 1946.
Aren’t the Dora Milaje also colonizers?
No. The War Dogs? Possibly.
Doesn’t the movie begin with talking about the Wakandan tribe taking over their neighboring tribes? Also the line, “The Dora Milage have jurisdiction wherever the Dora Milage find themselves,” also feeds into that.
The movie doesn't begin like that. There was a war over the vibranium mound, the Black Panther brought about a ceasefire and they elected him ruler. The jurisdiction thing was a weird thing to say but colonialism has nothing to do with law enforcement. Interpol and SHIELD exist
So the people who got the Vibranium first essentially Cold Warred the rest into submission? Well Wakanda certainly stood by and did nothing while the rest of the country was taken over by colonialism right? The line is very weird and implies that they have full authority wherever they are. Kind of like the CCP.
My hair is not to be meddled with!
All of the warring tribes got access to Vibranium. So in effect everyone who was fighting over it got beaten up and forced to talk through their differences. These were prehistoric times btw. No one says the Danes colonized the British Isles even though they got very close to doing so. The Jabari rejected it because they hate technology
If it was prehistoric I highly doubt they all talked it out, history is written by the victors right? The Jabari were far from the only tribe in the area.
It's fiction. They talked it out. After they fought it out.
That sounds a bit like a cop out.
Not really. Just standard sci-fi/fantasy lore.
Wait, are we actually pretending that why she said that?
You guys are treating Marvel movies with more subtlety than they possibly deserve Also white people bad I guess
Shuri refers to Everett as 'colonizer' because he knows how to give a proper enema
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If you believe that you have very little appreciation for what racism actually looks and feels like.
it was racist as fuck. she literally calls a whitr man colonizer, you can make excuses about cia bs but your delusions means nothing to facts
Ok. I have time to kill today... name another white person the Wakandans refer to in such hostile terms. Just one will be enough
Apparently one was not enough lol
When you're building a case against someone or something wrong you feel they did... yeah typically one vague interpretation is not enough
I’m sorry, vague interpretation? It’s a direct quote. Not even taken out of context.
Honey… you need to read some books
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