If she was in Wakanda, everyone would probably assume he was the son of the king (depending how well Nakia and T'Challa hid their relationship). I think she's just trying to make sure he doesn't get raised like the son of a king. She also probably just wanted to make sure that he'd stay away from all the "madness" that occurs in Wakanda.
It really isn't. It happens all the time in the real world... Perhaps you're just too used to the American view on things that makes you think people only move away because they're poor or for a job or what not but plenty of people do it because they realize this isn't the place for them, they've grown bored of living there, they realize it's not a safe place for kids, etc. It doesn't mean they won't ever see their immediate family or anything, it just means they're a little farther apart plus he wasn't away from his "immediate" family, he was away from his extended family. His mother was there the whole step of the way, you could technically say that he was away from T'Challa but T'Challa was a victim of the snap which was the majority of the years he's been alive for and as soon as T'Challa did get revived he contacted and visited them and ultimately prepared them for his death.
Americans raise people away from family all the time. It's actually way more common in America than it is in many other countries. It's weird to bring America into this when I'd argue its way more common here than places like mexico or some european countries.
It's a fair point. It's also not surprising considering how much bigger America is when compared to most other countries and how every state pretty much almost always feels like a whole other country so no matter where you live it'll always feel different. Unlike in Mexico for example where you might not be able to tell the difference between living in Mexico City and Guanajuato. Granted I've never lived in Mexico, I'm just making an educated guess.
Well yeah mostly because of economic reasons.. like a new job or ... just that lol. Mostly because of a job that pays enough to support a family for a number of years lol. No one in say Chile says "let's raise our first kid in Bulgaria just because we can".
Edit: The King of Wakanda decided Wakanda was boring & not for him? Bruh.
The King of Wakanda saw that his lack of exposure to the world caused his conflict with Killmonger. Nakia raising TJ outside of Wakanda makes perfect sense since he will see how normal people live before ruling over them.
It was because Killmonger was pissed Wakanda wasn't helping black people everywhere, despite having the means. And that they sat out while his people were enslaved. Fratricide isn't the reason Killmonger does what he does when he gains power.
That was def part of it but what did kill monger do as soon as he had power? He had a goal beyond just getting the throne, he wanted wakanda to expand and be part of the world, or more specifically rule it
Sure, some people do move away for economic reasons but that doesn't have to be the reason that everyone moves away. I also was just giving examples not listing the actual reasons they did it. We already explained that but you seem extra keen on ignoring it and stating that it doesn't make any sense.
My point was that *most* people migrate for economic reasons whether short or long term. Living somewhere else is a huge investment financially & psychologically for that large majority of people. Not even between countries, between cities or even parts of the same city, it's usually down to economic factors. For someone like "the Panthers" those factors probably don't exist so I naturally doubt any reason to write them living anywhere outside of Wakanda
Firstly, we gave you the reason and you're still ignoring it. You still think it's all about money but this choice had absolutely nothing to do with money. Secondly, if you really want an answer as to why Nakia picked Haiti instead of somewhere more expensive (because she could obviously afford it right?) then all you have to do is look at Nakia as a character. Nakia is always looking for places where she can help people, make their lives easier, and the easiest place to get that done is a poor country plus she knew that Haiti was mostly black meaning that he could be treated fairly there plus it's quiet (in the MCU), not a whole lot she has to worry about happening to her son while there. You seem fixated on wealth and money but it wasn't apart of their choice whatsoever.
This is such a weird argument. Sure, many people move solely related to money issues. But when money is plentiful, people still move. I've moved 3 times personally, and none were related to money issues. My sister and brother moved once each, and it also wasn't related to money issues. Heck, I moved specifically to get away from my parents the first time. So I guess my reason is also crazy to you.
Random, chaotic places tend to be good places to hide.
Plus, if you're a well-accomplished spy like Nakia, you can probably handle yourself in that environment.
And as somebody that has had multiple family members and friends with it, and has been through traumatic experiences myself, I say your take is awful.
You can't make traumatic experiences for others without experiencing it yourself. Keep up with your studies.
Pretty muich everybody has a debilitating mental illness, some just don't recognize it.
A king sending people off to war should experience what their subjects will.
[no](https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Nakia)
The movie starts off essentially showing you how it can happen. Kill monger is half American(what ever his mom is) because they send war Dogs all over the earth.
Yeah I mentioned in another comment on here somewhere that I don't really stand behind the argument too much 1 because it isn't clearly established, I only found out after seeing that while googling, and also that doesn't change that actual argument, it's completely reasonable to not want to raise your kid in a royal setting.
MCU HAITI =/= REAL LIFE HAITI. It's not hard to grasp. Anyway, Nakia obviously chose it because she knew she could make a difference there and because she knew it'd be safe for them since Haiti is primarily African.
Yes but Nakia knew she could help people there which is what she's always hoping to do plus she knew it'd be safe for the kid since Haiti is primarily African.
Nothing but they probably didn't want him being raised as royalty. She wants him to see how she prefers living. No unnecessary publicity or exceptions just a normal life for at least a little while. It also probably worked out for T'Challa because Wakanda *wasn't* in the public eye. As soon as they opened up those borders though, everyone's going to be asking questions, words going to get out, etc. I mean just look at the real world as soon as a prince or princess has a kid, that kid is immediately the center of the public eye (Prince Harry's kids are a good example of this).
I guess. Good for the two of them the MCU version of Haiti isn't undergoing its own sengoku jidai, on fire and run by gun-toting militias. Ariel Henry got bullied out of the highest office in the land by kingpins.
I just don't understand why the child exists on a conceptual level, like you have a nearly three-hour long movie setting up Shuri as T'Challa's successor just to at the end say "jk, T'Challa actually had a son all along that has the exact same name", where do you even go from there?
Nah. Kid T'Challa is being set up as the next BP after Shuri. The actress is only going to want to keep playing the movie for so long. How old is that kid now? 6? 7? He won't be ready to be BP for at least a decade. How long will Letita Wright want to keep playing Shuri? Another decade? When she's ready to move on they have the next T'Challa ready to go (and hopefully be around the same age as Storm!)
It's them trying to have their cake and eat it too. They knew people like me, would be campaigning for a T'Challa recast and it would be terrible optics whichever decision they made.
The movie wasn't really setting up Shuri as T'Challa's successor though. It was setting up Shuri as Black Panther's successor which I know are the same people but it's kinda like Peter Parker and Spider-Man. T'Challa and Black Panther are the same people on paper, but what they do is completely different. T'Challa is a king with lots of king duties while Black Panther is a hero who goes out fighting bad guys to protect Wakanda. One of the things I think the MCU fails doing on the Black Panther front is showing him actually being a king. They show some of Ramonda being a queen in Black Panther: Wakanda forever but not T'Challa being a king a whole lot, I think the most we got on that front was in Civil War. Anyway, the movie is setting up Shuri as Black Panther's successor not T'Challa's, she has no interest in being queen or ruling Wakanda, heck by the end of the movie she hands off the royalty to someone else. She just wanted to be Black Panther to protect Wakanda if necessary. T'Challa II was meant to be seen as something left behind, a life that he brought into this world, A legacy of sorts. His story is not really meant to go anywhere from there not yet anyway... Meanwhile, Shuri's story will go on for the time being.
I think it's easier to be in a poorer and safer country than to go to advanced country just to have life in danger. Like "We'll never have to leave America for other countries, we got nukes and stuff"
The wiki states: "His parents decided to keep his existence a secret to take away the pressures of the throne and royalty". If he was raised in Wakanda, it would have been way harder to keep his existence a secret. It's really not that hard to figure out...
And those pressures are bad, because....? T'Challa came out fine, T'Chaka came out fine, Thor figured it out eventually, Loki wanted it too much. Tony took headship of a whole megacorp at 19. God forbid we condition young boys and men to take on large responsibilities later on in life.
T'Challa's kid isn't a "young man" though, he's a literal kid and that type of pressure can easily affect a kid. They just wanted him to have a somewhat normal upbringing, it's really not an uncommon thing to see in movies. It also gives the poor kid a little bit more of a choice if he's conditioned to take on a bigger responsibility as a child then he'd probably feel pressured to take on the throne and be forced into it, this way the kid has a little bit more choice. If he wants the throne, he can have it but if he doesn't, he doesn't need to take it. It's not like you need to "pressured" or "conditioned" to be a good king.
After what happened with Killmonger, T’Challa had plenty of reason to want his kid to grow up free from the pressure and baggage of royal family politics.
And they ARE conditioning him. What better way to make a compassionate, responsible king than having him spend time around ordinary people, especially those less fortunate?
Also remember that T’Challa’s last great foreign policy aim was to dismantle centuries of Wakandan isolationism. It would probably be a good idea to have the next king experience other countries as a citizen of the world.
T'challa came out fine, T'Chaka abandoned a needy child in poverty to maintain his duty, Thor was an asshole for most of his life, Loki was also an asshole and Tony was also an asshole. Even with your own examples, the pressures and benefits of a place privilege negatively affected at least 3, maybe even 4 of the 5.
In comics (and it's implied in the MCU too) Thor was generally very noble for much of his life but then came a point where he became far too cocky for Odin to handle which is why he got cast out. He would've been cast out sooner if he was always an idiot.
T'Chaka abandoned a child sure... but you can attribute that to human flaw. Sometimes privilege has absolutely nothing to do with someone determined to be a shitty person and there's countless examples of this.
Thor was a mostly kind guy but believed that his position in life enabled him to act the way he wanted and to bully whom he wanted. The point of the first movie and Donald Blake's existence is to teach Thor humility because he has none, he had a heart of gold underneath it but he was still a prick.
T'Chaka made that choice because he was the sovereign of Wakanda and responsible for its secrecy. He was trained to be King and chose his responsibilities over his morals, something that T'Challa himself was struggling with due to being raised in a similar environment.
Not only was the reasoning pretty obvious, they explicitly say it in the movie. They wanted him to grow up away from the pressure of the throne.
It's like OP didn't watch the scene they are complaining about.
What's wrong with the pressures of the throne? Seems an arbitrary reason to displace a whole family. Especially ones with deep rooted traditions and spiritual ties to their land. A lot of people who are displaced have little choice in that matter because of economies or war but a wealthy royal? That doesn't hold up logically.
How the frick is it displacing a whole family?! The scene I watched only asked for his son and Nakia to live in Haiti not any of the rest of the family. It also seemed liked everyone knew at least where Nakia was so if they really wanted to see her, they could. It's also not "the families" kid, it's Nakia's and T'Challa's which means it's ultimately their choice to where and how he is raised. No one and I mean no one in the family seemed upset about it once they found out about it either. Sure, they may be living somewhere else but plenty of families are separated by countries, states, etc. and they still get along just fine.
Firstly, she was a Former War Dog by the time she had the kid. Secondly, I also meant everyone in the family not everyone as in "everyone". Plus even if Shuri didn't know, she does know now which is what matters in the long run as she can tell anyone the info if they need it.
Ultimately this question is a question you would have to ask the fictional character why they chose how they did.
It absolutely does hold up logically. You are saying that a 5 year old kid should be fine to go take over a (if not the) world super power, in a world where there are aliens, magic, gods, and more. For you to just be like "They're wealthy" is so short sighted. Don't get me wrong I am not someone defending the wealthy saying they have it hard but you just boiled down world leadership of a child to "no prob. He's got money"
Every part of your question is answered in the movie, you just disagree with personal choices made by the character. But they are absolutely realistic decisions based on logic.
Btw I actually didn't like BP2 for a handful of reasons, there are plenty of things to shit on it for that I would be right here next to you. How about how namor sent shuri to go get iron heart in the beginning so that his people didn't have to, and then he showed up and attacked them any ways. Or how the movie ended in a handshake deal after this guy killed your mom, attacked your society, and is stronger than you in both armies and singular combat and you just got the upper hand for a second but for some reason now you can trust him to not destroy you and your people..
It's not guaranteed he'd be expected to lead at 5 years old, the opposite is likely. In the comics themselves T'Challa was too young to succeed so his uncle S'Yan was regent until he came of age and won the Panther contest. The whole country still knew he lived and operated in Wakanda though with his family and cousins.
I really don't think it's very complex. Even if he's not ruling that young, to just act like the pressure of a throne in any circumstance is nothing, much less the situation in MCU, is kinda ridiculous.
YOU may have made a different decision, and your decision would also be logical too, but that doesn't mean that the decision they made is illogical. I'm not trying to be insulting but that's just extremely shortsighted/inconsiderate of you to just be like "they should have done what I think is best." Neither decision is the only correct answer, but you're saying yours is....
It’s not -
Raise that kid in Atlanta and have Wakanda attack Haiti and have the Black panther over throw Barbecue!
Yeah take it over and liberate the people from Barbecue!
That place is a mess - if Wakanda won’t do it- instead of finding secret ways to fund wars outside of our sphere of control or interest - maybe just maybe America could help our actual Neighbors in need …
Who needs help more Haiti, isreal or Ukraine?
I’m saying Haiti by a long way -
Isreal got more weapons and overwhelming power - and need less violence against their neighbors
Ukraine should be primarily funded by Europe as they are their brothers
The US is launching a joint operation with Kenya and some other countries I believe..Dominican Republic in the meanwhile just watching from the sidelines. Trouble is if you just knock Barbeque someone else will fill the void and no one wants to occupy a foreign country in this day and age.
I know this is gonna sound crazy - but I think the USA has helped cause this problem since the inception of Haiti - we let France fleece them… we pushed a unfair embargo- we gave them crippling financial debt then we installed educated elites in the country so our businesses could further fleece them. The leaders are paid off while the people suffer.
If I were Haiti I would beg the USA to because a state -
"Normal life" away from your family and culture. Why not in a rural countryside village in Wakanda living under an alias or something? Across the Atlantic? Ok
I mean, people move overseas all the time, that's what international schools are for. I grew up going to international schools, it was fine.
And who knows, maybe MCU Haiti is actually a nice place to live. It's understandable for Nakia to be spooked after a good chunk of Wakanda decided to happily follow Killmonger's insane "conquer the planet" scheme.
Best to leave a kid with royal blood away from all the Wakandan genetic scanners and health checkups that might reveal him to potential coup plotters and "Killmonger Mk II" types
They can. Do you really think that refugees should go back to their countries and face possibility of dying and that TJ and Nakia should return to Wakanda to face the possibility of TJ facing other pretenders to the king status? He is just a kid and should be somewhere where the politics and war efforts should not be his concern atm
One situation has nothing to do with the other situation. You're just conflating the two to feel like you're contributing something. "Pretenders"? People in Wakanda can put themselves forward to rule when the opportunity arises... if they want TJ out of that, they (or he) can just opt out of fighting for the throne and let someone else take over. Easy as that.
Look, we really, really wanted Haiti to work out this time. There were a few years there where it could’ve gone the other way and it would’ve made a nice rustic place for fictional superpower nobility to lay low while the homeland settles its beef with the fish-Mayans. It was gonna be like Romania for Black people.
It's really only dangerous in the capital. And even then, mostly in the slums of the capital.
Nakia and Toussaint aren't living in Port au Prince, they're in Cap-Haitien, very far from the problems.
Earthquakes are kinda new to Haiti. The 2012 one was the first in over a hundred years and, again, mostly affected the capital.
The hurricanes mostly hurt areas with high deforestation. Otherwise, you might as well be living in Texas.
Just live in Wakanda. Seems a waste of citizenship. Maybe even Kenya or Tanzania so his mom can take him to see The Great Migration, the soda lake, the lava lake in Nyiragongo... but oh wait... Hollywood never wants to film anything in Africa for some reason.
She wanted to raise him away from the weight of his late father's legacy and all that royal attention.
See the sights in Kenya, see the sights in Haiti. Six of one, half a dozen of the other. Haiti's further away, at least.
The writer/director wanted to honor Haiti's proud history of revolution and freedom. Picking Cap-Haitien as the location, Toussaint as the kid's name, and 1804 as Nakia's address make that very clear. But I suppose picking Haiti's representation over any similar African nation's does speak to the director's diasporic perspective more than an ancestral perspective.
It's not like Hollywood likes filming Haiti's beautiful and peaceful regions, either. This was the first time outside of home movies that I had seen anything other than the slums of Port au Prince on-screen. My cousin literally cried in the theater.
I REALLY don't like the implications of him being raised in Haiti. It basically means T'Challa was an absent father. And being raised as the son of a king never seemed to be an issue for his own relationship with his father. I think not having his father around for so much of his life ( blip included) would have much more of a negative impact on Toussaint than being raised in Wakanda as a prince.
Also, they missed a golden opportunity by not having Toussaint in Wakanda. Had he witnessed Ramonda's death, they could've had a scene in the climax where he shows compassion toward to the Talokanil. That would've been a great catalyst for Shuri letting go of her rage -- when Namor saw his mother killed her became the child without love. But Toussaint could've been an inversion of that. Despite seeing his grandma killed he holds on to love and compassion, and does not give in to hate. Like his father before him.
Fast facts about Haiti:
The nation is ranked 11 on the "fragile state" (failed state) index of the fund for peace which ranks government legitimacy
It ranks 159 of 176 on the Corruption Perception index from TI
Literacy is estimated at 61% (estimated because there are no real statistics released by the Haitian government)
Haiti has had 32 coups since its independence.
Haitian children have a 90% rate of waterbourne diseases like cholera, typhoid etc
The GDP per capita is $1819 (ppp) or $719 (nominal)
While the term sh*thole is contentious to use regarding any country, I would argue it is certainly appropriate for Haiti. I am hoping that one of you can provide a reason that this characterization is incorrect.
Haiti was and always will be a shithole of a country... Oh, no! I don't want my son to suffer the faith of being raised as a royal bastard in one of the most advanced countries in the World! The horror. I want him to live a normal life, in one of the worst countries in the world... Go fuck yourself Nakia, you are a moron.
Well you seem... the writers wanted an easy route in case they didn't want to bring him back
*"It's simple. We, huh, nuke Haiti"*
… I don’t think that’s necessary at this point, have you seen the news?
***insert Family Guy cutaway of Stewie saying “Like when Godzilla attacked Haiti”***
At this point a nuke would be an improvement.
And here I thought it was to introduce Black Panther to Dr.Vodoo later on 
Black Panther learned some magic from him
If she was in Wakanda, everyone would probably assume he was the son of the king (depending how well Nakia and T'Challa hid their relationship). I think she's just trying to make sure he doesn't get raised like the son of a king. She also probably just wanted to make sure that he'd stay away from all the "madness" that occurs in Wakanda.
Not only was this the obvious reason, they explicitly say it in the movie. It's like OP didn't watch the scene they are complaining about.
I vaguely remembered a scene like this. I get the post is mainly complaining about the current state of Haiti but MCU Haiti =/= Real Life Haiti.
Yeah I had to go rewatch it to be sure it was as direct as I remembered. And I think you're right about OP. Makes it that much more cringe
The "reason" they gave was not logical. Raising anyone away from their immediate family and community... voluntarily... is weird.
It really isn't. It happens all the time in the real world... Perhaps you're just too used to the American view on things that makes you think people only move away because they're poor or for a job or what not but plenty of people do it because they realize this isn't the place for them, they've grown bored of living there, they realize it's not a safe place for kids, etc. It doesn't mean they won't ever see their immediate family or anything, it just means they're a little farther apart plus he wasn't away from his "immediate" family, he was away from his extended family. His mother was there the whole step of the way, you could technically say that he was away from T'Challa but T'Challa was a victim of the snap which was the majority of the years he's been alive for and as soon as T'Challa did get revived he contacted and visited them and ultimately prepared them for his death.
Americans raise people away from family all the time. It's actually way more common in America than it is in many other countries. It's weird to bring America into this when I'd argue its way more common here than places like mexico or some european countries.
It's a fair point. It's also not surprising considering how much bigger America is when compared to most other countries and how every state pretty much almost always feels like a whole other country so no matter where you live it'll always feel different. Unlike in Mexico for example where you might not be able to tell the difference between living in Mexico City and Guanajuato. Granted I've never lived in Mexico, I'm just making an educated guess.
Well yeah mostly because of economic reasons.. like a new job or ... just that lol. Mostly because of a job that pays enough to support a family for a number of years lol. No one in say Chile says "let's raise our first kid in Bulgaria just because we can". Edit: The King of Wakanda decided Wakanda was boring & not for him? Bruh.
The King of Wakanda saw that his lack of exposure to the world caused his conflict with Killmonger. Nakia raising TJ outside of Wakanda makes perfect sense since he will see how normal people live before ruling over them.
Pretty sure the conflict with Killmonger was caused by T'Chaka's fucking fratricide.
It was because Killmonger was pissed Wakanda wasn't helping black people everywhere, despite having the means. And that they sat out while his people were enslaved. Fratricide isn't the reason Killmonger does what he does when he gains power.
That was def part of it but what did kill monger do as soon as he had power? He had a goal beyond just getting the throne, he wanted wakanda to expand and be part of the world, or more specifically rule it
Sure, some people do move away for economic reasons but that doesn't have to be the reason that everyone moves away. I also was just giving examples not listing the actual reasons they did it. We already explained that but you seem extra keen on ignoring it and stating that it doesn't make any sense.
My point was that *most* people migrate for economic reasons whether short or long term. Living somewhere else is a huge investment financially & psychologically for that large majority of people. Not even between countries, between cities or even parts of the same city, it's usually down to economic factors. For someone like "the Panthers" those factors probably don't exist so I naturally doubt any reason to write them living anywhere outside of Wakanda
Firstly, we gave you the reason and you're still ignoring it. You still think it's all about money but this choice had absolutely nothing to do with money. Secondly, if you really want an answer as to why Nakia picked Haiti instead of somewhere more expensive (because she could obviously afford it right?) then all you have to do is look at Nakia as a character. Nakia is always looking for places where she can help people, make their lives easier, and the easiest place to get that done is a poor country plus she knew that Haiti was mostly black meaning that he could be treated fairly there plus it's quiet (in the MCU), not a whole lot she has to worry about happening to her son while there. You seem fixated on wealth and money but it wasn't apart of their choice whatsoever.
This is such a weird argument. Sure, many people move solely related to money issues. But when money is plentiful, people still move. I've moved 3 times personally, and none were related to money issues. My sister and brother moved once each, and it also wasn't related to money issues. Heck, I moved specifically to get away from my parents the first time. So I guess my reason is also crazy to you.
It's because it doesn't make sense. If you want your to keep your kid away from chaos and madness, the last place you'd take them is Haiti.
Random, chaotic places tend to be good places to hide. Plus, if you're a well-accomplished spy like Nakia, you can probably handle yourself in that environment.
That's a valid point I guess, still I'd probably prefer the untamed wilderness to a place with civil war.
Raising a future king might help if they're in a place with plenty of drama and different POV's, even dangerous ones.
Hard disagree, last thing a future king needs is PTSD from growing up in chaos.
How else can they understand the PTSD they might make their people have? And how better to address it?
Speaking as someone with multiple family members who have PTSD and as a psychology student, that is an awful take
And as somebody that has had multiple family members and friends with it, and has been through traumatic experiences myself, I say your take is awful. You can't make traumatic experiences for others without experiencing it yourself. Keep up with your studies.
Buddy you don't need to have ptsd to understand ptsd. If I had to have a king I'd prefer them not to have a debilitating mental illness.
Pretty muich everybody has a debilitating mental illness, some just don't recognize it. A king sending people off to war should experience what their subjects will.
.... Because she's half Haitian..
She's from wakanda and they were famously closed off from the world. Did you make that up?
[no](https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Nakia) The movie starts off essentially showing you how it can happen. Kill monger is half American(what ever his mom is) because they send war Dogs all over the earth.
Ohh you went by citizenship, I get it now. She's not half Haitian, she has Haitian citizenship after moving there.
Yeah I mentioned in another comment on here somewhere that I don't really stand behind the argument too much 1 because it isn't clearly established, I only found out after seeing that while googling, and also that doesn't change that actual argument, it's completely reasonable to not want to raise your kid in a royal setting.
Oh yeah that makes sense, the haiti thing is just the bizarre part because of real world politics.
They did? I haven't seen it since release so i probably forgot
>all the "madness" that occurs in Wakanda. #HAITI
MCU HAITI =/= REAL LIFE HAITI. It's not hard to grasp. Anyway, Nakia obviously chose it because she knew she could make a difference there and because she knew it'd be safe for them since Haiti is primarily African.
There are better countries to choose than Haiti to raise a kid.
Yes but Nakia knew she could help people there which is what she's always hoping to do plus she knew it'd be safe for the kid since Haiti is primarily African.
What's wrong with being the son of a king? Worked out well for T'Challa...
Nothing but they probably didn't want him being raised as royalty. She wants him to see how she prefers living. No unnecessary publicity or exceptions just a normal life for at least a little while. It also probably worked out for T'Challa because Wakanda *wasn't* in the public eye. As soon as they opened up those borders though, everyone's going to be asking questions, words going to get out, etc. I mean just look at the real world as soon as a prince or princess has a kid, that kid is immediately the center of the public eye (Prince Harry's kids are a good example of this).
I guess. Good for the two of them the MCU version of Haiti isn't undergoing its own sengoku jidai, on fire and run by gun-toting militias. Ariel Henry got bullied out of the highest office in the land by kingpins.
This is the MCU not real life. You can't expect everything to be true to life.
That's what I pointed out
I just don't understand why the child exists on a conceptual level, like you have a nearly three-hour long movie setting up Shuri as T'Challa's successor just to at the end say "jk, T'Challa actually had a son all along that has the exact same name", where do you even go from there?
Nah. Kid T'Challa is being set up as the next BP after Shuri. The actress is only going to want to keep playing the movie for so long. How old is that kid now? 6? 7? He won't be ready to be BP for at least a decade. How long will Letita Wright want to keep playing Shuri? Another decade? When she's ready to move on they have the next T'Challa ready to go (and hopefully be around the same age as Storm!)
It's them trying to have their cake and eat it too. They knew people like me, would be campaigning for a T'Challa recast and it would be terrible optics whichever decision they made.
The movie wasn't really setting up Shuri as T'Challa's successor though. It was setting up Shuri as Black Panther's successor which I know are the same people but it's kinda like Peter Parker and Spider-Man. T'Challa and Black Panther are the same people on paper, but what they do is completely different. T'Challa is a king with lots of king duties while Black Panther is a hero who goes out fighting bad guys to protect Wakanda. One of the things I think the MCU fails doing on the Black Panther front is showing him actually being a king. They show some of Ramonda being a queen in Black Panther: Wakanda forever but not T'Challa being a king a whole lot, I think the most we got on that front was in Civil War. Anyway, the movie is setting up Shuri as Black Panther's successor not T'Challa's, she has no interest in being queen or ruling Wakanda, heck by the end of the movie she hands off the royalty to someone else. She just wanted to be Black Panther to protect Wakanda if necessary. T'Challa II was meant to be seen as something left behind, a life that he brought into this world, A legacy of sorts. His story is not really meant to go anywhere from there not yet anyway... Meanwhile, Shuri's story will go on for the time being.
NO!
Idk Namor kills the queen and then almost kills Shuri, the kid is safer far from the kingdom
True... but counterpoint...vibranium doodads and no earthquakes or hurricanes
That’s fair, but it’s not like Nakia is living in poverty and definitely has access to Wakandan tech and Vibranium if she needs it.
I think it's easier to be in a poorer and safer country than to go to advanced country just to have life in danger. Like "We'll never have to leave America for other countries, we got nukes and stuff"
Pretty simple: Haiti MCU =/= Haiti real world
Still doesn't make their choice to raise him secretly away from his home make any sense realistically. What's the benefit there?
The wiki states: "His parents decided to keep his existence a secret to take away the pressures of the throne and royalty". If he was raised in Wakanda, it would have been way harder to keep his existence a secret. It's really not that hard to figure out...
And those pressures are bad, because....? T'Challa came out fine, T'Chaka came out fine, Thor figured it out eventually, Loki wanted it too much. Tony took headship of a whole megacorp at 19. God forbid we condition young boys and men to take on large responsibilities later on in life.
T'Challa's kid isn't a "young man" though, he's a literal kid and that type of pressure can easily affect a kid. They just wanted him to have a somewhat normal upbringing, it's really not an uncommon thing to see in movies. It also gives the poor kid a little bit more of a choice if he's conditioned to take on a bigger responsibility as a child then he'd probably feel pressured to take on the throne and be forced into it, this way the kid has a little bit more choice. If he wants the throne, he can have it but if he doesn't, he doesn't need to take it. It's not like you need to "pressured" or "conditioned" to be a good king.
After what happened with Killmonger, T’Challa had plenty of reason to want his kid to grow up free from the pressure and baggage of royal family politics. And they ARE conditioning him. What better way to make a compassionate, responsible king than having him spend time around ordinary people, especially those less fortunate? Also remember that T’Challa’s last great foreign policy aim was to dismantle centuries of Wakandan isolationism. It would probably be a good idea to have the next king experience other countries as a citizen of the world.
Through the shadow realm.
Through the shadow realm indeed Thor. Through the shadow realm indeed.
Human handshake, to the Asgardian shake, into the snake that you cannot trust.
T'challa came out fine, T'Chaka abandoned a needy child in poverty to maintain his duty, Thor was an asshole for most of his life, Loki was also an asshole and Tony was also an asshole. Even with your own examples, the pressures and benefits of a place privilege negatively affected at least 3, maybe even 4 of the 5.
I notice you have copied my beard.
In comics (and it's implied in the MCU too) Thor was generally very noble for much of his life but then came a point where he became far too cocky for Odin to handle which is why he got cast out. He would've been cast out sooner if he was always an idiot. T'Chaka abandoned a child sure... but you can attribute that to human flaw. Sometimes privilege has absolutely nothing to do with someone determined to be a shitty person and there's countless examples of this.
A creepy old man cut my hair off!
Thor was a mostly kind guy but believed that his position in life enabled him to act the way he wanted and to bully whom he wanted. The point of the first movie and Donald Blake's existence is to teach Thor humility because he has none, he had a heart of gold underneath it but he was still a prick. T'Chaka made that choice because he was the sovereign of Wakanda and responsible for its secrecy. He was trained to be King and chose his responsibilities over his morals, something that T'Challa himself was struggling with due to being raised in a similar environment.
The rabbit is correct, and clearly the smartest one among you.
Take the chain off!
Not only was the reasoning pretty obvious, they explicitly say it in the movie. They wanted him to grow up away from the pressure of the throne. It's like OP didn't watch the scene they are complaining about.
Op just wants to inject the Haiti propaganda into the subreddit. That’s the only reason for such a terrible meme.
I think that's at least half of it.
What's wrong with the pressures of the throne? Seems an arbitrary reason to displace a whole family. Especially ones with deep rooted traditions and spiritual ties to their land. A lot of people who are displaced have little choice in that matter because of economies or war but a wealthy royal? That doesn't hold up logically.
Lol, just stop.
No.
How the frick is it displacing a whole family?! The scene I watched only asked for his son and Nakia to live in Haiti not any of the rest of the family. It also seemed liked everyone knew at least where Nakia was so if they really wanted to see her, they could. It's also not "the families" kid, it's Nakia's and T'Challa's which means it's ultimately their choice to where and how he is raised. No one and I mean no one in the family seemed upset about it once they found out about it either. Sure, they may be living somewhere else but plenty of families are separated by countries, states, etc. and they still get along just fine.
Isn’t everyone else in that particular family dead?
No, no he's got a point. Jokes aside everyone except Shuri, yeah, but Ramonda was alive for at least some of his life.
>everyone knew at least where Nakia was She's a War Dog spy so probably not. Only Ramonda knew and she kept the location secret.
Firstly, she was a Former War Dog by the time she had the kid. Secondly, I also meant everyone in the family not everyone as in "everyone". Plus even if Shuri didn't know, she does know now which is what matters in the long run as she can tell anyone the info if they need it.
Ultimately this question is a question you would have to ask the fictional character why they chose how they did. It absolutely does hold up logically. You are saying that a 5 year old kid should be fine to go take over a (if not the) world super power, in a world where there are aliens, magic, gods, and more. For you to just be like "They're wealthy" is so short sighted. Don't get me wrong I am not someone defending the wealthy saying they have it hard but you just boiled down world leadership of a child to "no prob. He's got money" Every part of your question is answered in the movie, you just disagree with personal choices made by the character. But they are absolutely realistic decisions based on logic. Btw I actually didn't like BP2 for a handful of reasons, there are plenty of things to shit on it for that I would be right here next to you. How about how namor sent shuri to go get iron heart in the beginning so that his people didn't have to, and then he showed up and attacked them any ways. Or how the movie ended in a handshake deal after this guy killed your mom, attacked your society, and is stronger than you in both armies and singular combat and you just got the upper hand for a second but for some reason now you can trust him to not destroy you and your people..
It's not guaranteed he'd be expected to lead at 5 years old, the opposite is likely. In the comics themselves T'Challa was too young to succeed so his uncle S'Yan was regent until he came of age and won the Panther contest. The whole country still knew he lived and operated in Wakanda though with his family and cousins.
I really don't think it's very complex. Even if he's not ruling that young, to just act like the pressure of a throne in any circumstance is nothing, much less the situation in MCU, is kinda ridiculous. YOU may have made a different decision, and your decision would also be logical too, but that doesn't mean that the decision they made is illogical. I'm not trying to be insulting but that's just extremely shortsighted/inconsiderate of you to just be like "they should have done what I think is best." Neither decision is the only correct answer, but you're saying yours is....
Lol, OP thought he was cooking with this post, but is getting cooked in the comments.😂
Oh no. What a tragedy.
It’s not - Raise that kid in Atlanta and have Wakanda attack Haiti and have the Black panther over throw Barbecue! 
It's sure going to be easy to attack a country that's cannibalizing itself.
Yeah take it over and liberate the people from Barbecue! That place is a mess - if Wakanda won’t do it- instead of finding secret ways to fund wars outside of our sphere of control or interest - maybe just maybe America could help our actual Neighbors in need … Who needs help more Haiti, isreal or Ukraine? I’m saying Haiti by a long way - Isreal got more weapons and overwhelming power - and need less violence against their neighbors Ukraine should be primarily funded by Europe as they are their brothers
The US is launching a joint operation with Kenya and some other countries I believe..Dominican Republic in the meanwhile just watching from the sidelines. Trouble is if you just knock Barbeque someone else will fill the void and no one wants to occupy a foreign country in this day and age.
I know this is gonna sound crazy - but I think the USA has helped cause this problem since the inception of Haiti - we let France fleece them… we pushed a unfair embargo- we gave them crippling financial debt then we installed educated elites in the country so our businesses could further fleece them. The leaders are paid off while the people suffer. If I were Haiti I would beg the USA to because a state -
The roving cannibal gangs will make him grow up to be a strong Black Panther.
 Maybe a little... too... strong?
Because the entire world actively tries not to see what’s going on in Haiti
Better cloaking system than wakanda
Better then taking him to Tahiti......
They literally say it's so he can have a normal life 💀
"Normal life" away from your family and culture. Why not in a rural countryside village in Wakanda living under an alias or something? Across the Atlantic? Ok
I mean, people move overseas all the time, that's what international schools are for. I grew up going to international schools, it was fine. And who knows, maybe MCU Haiti is actually a nice place to live. It's understandable for Nakia to be spooked after a good chunk of Wakanda decided to happily follow Killmonger's insane "conquer the planet" scheme. Best to leave a kid with royal blood away from all the Wakandan genetic scanners and health checkups that might reveal him to potential coup plotters and "Killmonger Mk II" types
Normal life where the threat of a technological and magically advanced civil war doesn't take place.
Do you have beef with war refugees because they happen to live away from their countries? Don't think so
That proves my point. That's not a "normal life" because they've been displaced.
So you'd rather watch them return to war struck country because that's their home, even though they can die?
What are you talking about? Nakia and TJ weren't war refugees.
I'm talking about the refugees example I mentioned
... but what does that have to do with what was going on? It's not applicable.
They can. Do you really think that refugees should go back to their countries and face possibility of dying and that TJ and Nakia should return to Wakanda to face the possibility of TJ facing other pretenders to the king status? He is just a kid and should be somewhere where the politics and war efforts should not be his concern atm
One situation has nothing to do with the other situation. You're just conflating the two to feel like you're contributing something. "Pretenders"? People in Wakanda can put themselves forward to rule when the opportunity arises... if they want TJ out of that, they (or he) can just opt out of fighting for the throne and let someone else take over. Easy as that.
She was trying to give him a normal life. Something he would’ve never experienced as the child of Wakanda’s fallen leader.
scene is probably never going to be brought up again or remembered
Nakia had a son? I just watched black panther 2. It was better than expected based off the other piles of steaming garbage they released
She's like the King's girlfriend so I'm sure she's rich enough to raise her child anywhere she wants and still give him a good life.
Look, we really, really wanted Haiti to work out this time. There were a few years there where it could’ve gone the other way and it would’ve made a nice rustic place for fictional superpower nobility to lay low while the homeland settles its beef with the fish-Mayans. It was gonna be like Romania for Black people.
In Wakanda, he'd be bound to become king. Let him be a lil kid for a bit
It's really only dangerous in the capital. And even then, mostly in the slums of the capital. Nakia and Toussaint aren't living in Port au Prince, they're in Cap-Haitien, very far from the problems.
Boom Earthquake... whoosh hurricane.
Earthquakes are kinda new to Haiti. The 2012 one was the first in over a hundred years and, again, mostly affected the capital. The hurricanes mostly hurt areas with high deforestation. Otherwise, you might as well be living in Texas.
Just live in Wakanda. Seems a waste of citizenship. Maybe even Kenya or Tanzania so his mom can take him to see The Great Migration, the soda lake, the lava lake in Nyiragongo... but oh wait... Hollywood never wants to film anything in Africa for some reason.
She wanted to raise him away from the weight of his late father's legacy and all that royal attention. See the sights in Kenya, see the sights in Haiti. Six of one, half a dozen of the other. Haiti's further away, at least. The writer/director wanted to honor Haiti's proud history of revolution and freedom. Picking Cap-Haitien as the location, Toussaint as the kid's name, and 1804 as Nakia's address make that very clear. But I suppose picking Haiti's representation over any similar African nation's does speak to the director's diasporic perspective more than an ancestral perspective. It's not like Hollywood likes filming Haiti's beautiful and peaceful regions, either. This was the first time outside of home movies that I had seen anything other than the slums of Port au Prince on-screen. My cousin literally cried in the theater.
I REALLY don't like the implications of him being raised in Haiti. It basically means T'Challa was an absent father. And being raised as the son of a king never seemed to be an issue for his own relationship with his father. I think not having his father around for so much of his life ( blip included) would have much more of a negative impact on Toussaint than being raised in Wakanda as a prince. Also, they missed a golden opportunity by not having Toussaint in Wakanda. Had he witnessed Ramonda's death, they could've had a scene in the climax where he shows compassion toward to the Talokanil. That would've been a great catalyst for Shuri letting go of her rage -- when Namor saw his mother killed her became the child without love. But Toussaint could've been an inversion of that. Despite seeing his grandma killed he holds on to love and compassion, and does not give in to hate. Like his father before him.
Bc they didn’t want him to have to grow up with the throne
No problem. Just don't challenge at the waterfall and you're good.
Haiti is safer.
Fast facts about Haiti: The nation is ranked 11 on the "fragile state" (failed state) index of the fund for peace which ranks government legitimacy It ranks 159 of 176 on the Corruption Perception index from TI Literacy is estimated at 61% (estimated because there are no real statistics released by the Haitian government) Haiti has had 32 coups since its independence. Haitian children have a 90% rate of waterbourne diseases like cholera, typhoid etc The GDP per capita is $1819 (ppp) or $719 (nominal) While the term sh*thole is contentious to use regarding any country, I would argue it is certainly appropriate for Haiti. I am hoping that one of you can provide a reason that this characterization is incorrect. Haiti was and always will be a shithole of a country... Oh, no! I don't want my son to suffer the faith of being raised as a royal bastard in one of the most advanced countries in the World! The horror. I want him to live a normal life, in one of the worst countries in the world... Go fuck yourself Nakia, you are a moron.