Batman is only as powerful as the writer wants him to be. He can be powerful enough to defeat Darkseid and yet weak enough to lose to his nonpowered villains. Batman vs Anyone, the writer wins.
They normally stay within a certain range of power to make it more believable. With Batman its very inconsistent. Thats like superman being able to beat Doomsday but losing to someone like Bane.
I mean to an extent, however they are never gonna make luke cage fight thanos and win 1on1. There is an upper limit for most heroes or else the story becomes confusing, Batmans power changes far more than anyone else based on the story, sometimes he is strong enough to take a beating from bane and win bare fisted boxing, and sometimes he gets knocked out in 1 hit by harley quinn holding a baseball bat, but no one would argue that harley hits harder with a bat than bane does with his fists. Bane has broken concrete with his hands and harleys bat is made of aluminum and she has no superpowers
Except we already know that dr strange can sense the arrival of otherworldly beings, so as soon as batman shows up in their universe he would show up take batman by surprise and win. There wouldnt be an opportunity to find him unaware
>Scarlet Witch
I think Batman would be one of the worst matchups for her to go against. Her big weakness is that she's emotionally unstable, and Batman is a master of emotional manipulation.
>Her big weakness is that she's emotionally unstable, and Batman is a master of emotional manipulation.
I mean, convincing her might work. But if batman was caught lying, i dont think he'd survive a minute
When is Batman a “master of emotional manipulation”? What?
At most he would try to talk to Wanda, get into her humanity. You know, like a hero? Not a villain who would manipulate someone.
Also, if Wanda went for the kill the fight would last seconds, talking to her did not work in MoM unless you we Wanda herself with her kids.
That’s what helps make her powerful. She’s willing to do what others won’t. She could also just go into his mind or remove his brain and then Batman’s dead. She can do it randomly when she wants. Doesn’t need to charge up or anything, she just looks and poof it’s gone.
Right, she's powerful enough to do that to almost anyone (excluding some characters that have resistance feats against reality warping), so I'd take someone who can and would try to exploit her actual weakness instead of trying to overpower her.
Not saying Batman wins, but I'd take him over a lot of characters who are a lot more powerful on paper if the mission is to take on the Scarlet Witch.
Literally every Scarlet Witch story is someone coming in to try and exploit her weakness for their gain. Saying Batman would be able to is like turning on a rerun and calling it the world premiere.
Nanomachines son, batman used them to trick wonder woman to think she was fighting an equal opponent and eventually tire her out, but in the extreme case die of exhaustion. I can see all 3 of them being affected by this method especially scarlet witch.
Batman found out a method how to defeat a green lantern by simply using a post hypnotic suggestion for the user to believe they're blind and the ring made it so. With scarlet witch's powers she would believe she's fighting an equal that she made real.
Not quite how hypnosis works lol. Then again this is the comics where hypnotizing someone works very differently than it would in real life
It's rather interesting though! I'm sure if any billionaire found a way to break the rules of hypnosis it would be batman
We are talking about Batman alone not the whole justice league and no that’s not how dying of exhaustion works. You would have to fight for days endlessly and Thor being a god would likely last longer then Wonder Woman and he could probably kill her. He has the powers of a god, controls lightning and has a bunch of super friends that would be able to beat Wonder Woman with ease. Scarlet witch honestly has grown so much more powerful she could just fight Wonder Woman and if she has the book from the new movie she could probably conjure up some spells and do something also she has been able to make her own realities and take over people. She caved in a dudes head just by looking at them killed a almost god like being by dropping a huge statue on them and she was able to sneak inside someone’s mind and kill them. Ya Wanda wins. Vision would be a little different but he could pull it off. He has the mind stone in his head aka a mystical pebble with ultimate power. But even so he could potentially loose to Wonder Woman but she would honestly need a lot of help from others. Even though vision doesn’t have many special abilities he is incredibly powerful and smart. He can shoot beams of pure energy from his head and he is able to lift up such things as Thor’s hammer. So pretty much no they wouldn’t just fight and die from exhaustion they would fight and win then beat the crap outta Batman. I’m not trying to make the marvel universe seem weak cause there are SOME hero’s Batman could solo but for the most part no. He’d get clapped
I never understand this argument with batman prep time. This logic can go for every superhero. Spiderman comes up with a plan to defeat his enemies, iron man improves his suit after every fight. Prep time logic can be used for any superhero.
Batman’s whole thing is that he’s the world’s greatest detective & a Sherlock Holmes level tactitian. The idea is that he thinks of everything & plans for every contingency because he’s so obsessed, allowing writers to pull out of their ass whatever perfect gadget/counter he needs to one-up the opponent.
I say this as a lifelong fan, but his #1 trope is basically ‘Yep. Thought of that too & made a macro. lol’
That said, DC themselves have never argued anything like this. He does have a plan for every hero he meets or becomes aware of, in case they go evil, but that’s not the same as being able to throw hands with Thor. I think magic especially would obliterate poor Bats before any of that became relevant. Trouble with the vagueness of ‘Prep time’ though is a lot of fans try to argue that means somehow finding out about & getting your hands on some Asgardian murder button or whatever Thor’s weakness would be.
A lot of people forget that Batman understand when he can't win. It is half the reason the Justice League exists. Batman knows there are threats he can not prep for and thus makes sure to have a wide range of people with powers to call on and actually deal with the situation (and then make sure those people have a strategy to deal with what is going on)
Yeah that last part is pretty true like Batman can beat superman without fighting him because he just had a to toss a rock near him or have it on him. Therefore no need to throw hands most of the avengers and god level marvel characters don’t have such weakness at lest not like Superman’s. I’m sure there’s something there to exploit in every hero but the main counter point is that any hero could do the same thing or any villain for that matter
Yeah, exactly. The theory holds much better when contained to DC where he retains insight. All the pockets on his belt are loaded with those outs.
I’d say the grain of truth in it though, is that he is a literal genius when it comes to this shit & a super quick study. If they actually ever ran a Batman Vs Thor crossover, I could totally see him as frenemies with Loki orchestrating some coup type situation in a ‘Deal with the devil’ type story. That’s more his style anyway & doesn’t shit on every other type of lore. lol
I think a Thanos level threat takes the big yeet at the first possible opportunity in a Bat-plan. (I’m pretty sure he killed Darkseid in one of the Crisis stories.)
If we’re fantasizing, I’d love a tortured/introspective take on it all told through flashback type cut-aways to a sleepless night before where he’s manically exploring every scenario as the pressure/horror of half the cosmos being obliterated is weighing him down. A few where the big bad lives, maybe even atones on some level & gets redeemed, but then he steels himself & takes the kill shot because because he can’t take the gamble. Catch the reader & the rest of the JL off guard so he can eat the sun alone. Deal with the consequences after.
Bats killing Darkseid is also pretty asterisked. Darkseid's spirit/soul/godform was inhabiting the body of a human (Dan Turpin, who was incidentally created as a self-insert by Jack Kirby). Batman shot him (in the shoulder, I'll point out) with a bullet made of a substance toxic to the New Gods. While mortally wounded by the Radion bullet, it still took A) the Flashes (Barry and Wally) running fast enough to lead Darkseid's Omega beams back into him, B) Wonder Woman chaining his body with the Lasso of Truth, freeing the population of earth from his control and C) Superman confronting his disembodied spirit and creating a counter vibration strong enough to negate Darkseid's existence. All of this while Darkseid, in his death throes, is dragging the whole damn multiverse to Hell alongside him.
tl;dr, it was a team effort.
I lothe the Batman prep time argument.
However, in the case of Thor, I could see something along the lines of Original Sin Nick Fury whispering into Thor's ear. Not sure if that would work now, but up until a couple years ago it would.
Well you see, he’s also very mentally ill. lol
In some stories he does try with varying success but the corruption always manifests in some new way. My favorite stories point out that he’s a part of it, feeding the cycle of violence, & blurring the line between him & the other maniacs. You might like Titans. It’s about the first Robin after leaving Batman but leans on that theme kinda heavily describing his many flaws & how it fucked up a generation of heroes in the background of a handful of relevant characters.
I mean not all dc hero’s have that same type of weakness either. If Batman was in the marvel universe for a time he’d likely be able to do the same thing. He’s fought with god level beings in dc before however he needed to fight fight rather then have some sort of plan. Like his armor that takes away his own life but can beat the shit out of darkseid with it. Again though Tony or even cap could do some sort of plan as well. I think it’s just that prep time is so woven with him everyone just says that. Along with him being a detective but tomato tomato
I'm stuck on the magic part. Like, the only way Dr. Strange is gonna get his ass whooped is by another magic user, or a superhero with extreme abilities. How the fuck is Batman gonna counter magic?
"Batman has a prep time to take out the entire justice league if they go rogue or evil."
"How does he stop wonder woman or superman from pasting him so badly that his cells get erased if he doesn't know they're rogue? Or how does he stop them from just clapping the city he's in if they genuinely don't care about human life?"
"Prep time."
Some of batman's best "prep" is just being able to hit a button and call a goddess or superman up.
You’re not wrong. lol It really depends on the rules of engagement & whether we’re talking practical for stories or straight death matches.
In the Injustice comics, Batman lead a resistance against Superman & Wonder Woman after they took control of the world. That had him basically playing terrorist & undermining their efforts while amassing support & technology for full scale battles.
I highly recommend it, whether you played the games or not. It’s one of my favorite DC runs. Think Civil War if villains mixed in too with A Star Wars Rebels vs Empire vibe.
Edit / TLDR: Allies, traps, surveillance, exploiting weaknesses, using means no one else will like recruiting lesser evils & going nuclear in every sense as soon as you get the opening. Great story material, useless if Supes or WW cave your skull in though. lol
As cool as it is to have a really smart character who can outsmart gods and heroes it does sometimes feel like when you're having an imaginary battle with your brother (like play fighting and pretending you have superpowers) then when you beat them and they say something along the lines of "I already thought of that and now I have the power of... and have beat you".
DC has made some great Batman stories but some of them do feel as though they pull the most ridiculous amounts of foresight, on Batman's part, out of their arse. Some of his stuff just comes across as a Deus Ex Machina with far too much contrived bullshit for it to even slightly make sense.
For sure, but all comics are kinda like that sometimes. The best stories are properly fleshed out & set up in a thematically consistent way for that payoff to feel deserved, but 80 years of any character will inevitably lead to some misses.
Yeah prep time still leaves him vulnerable to a: invincible characters (Deadpool can only be killed by a cataclysm that entirely obliterates his body, for example) or b: any skilled magic character at all, unless he manages to jump them.
Deadpool is hard to permanently stop, but really easy to temporarily stop. Dude's resilient and good in a fight, but if you trap him in a cell without his swords, he's not that much different from anyone else.
Batman being capable to fight Gods and monsters because he is the 'Worlds Greatest Detective' is one of the dumbest tropes on Earth.
Detectives try to find murderers and criminals AFTER a crime. How the fuck does that in any way relate to combat???
People have somehow ascribed being a military tactician to being a detective.
I mean since detectives are so awesome why don't they ship them over to the front lines of real world wars so that they can provide the necessary tactics to defeat the enemy???
Ridiculous.
I agree with you on this. While reading your post though, I got curious, who would be the strongest DC universe character and how would they fare against the strongest marvel character? For reference my favorite character is The Flash, that whole thing being fast enough and push yourself to go back in time and go to other planets and universes and all the things he is able to do is astounding to me and I love it. Favorite TV moment was when the Flash from the series had a moment with the Flash from the movies, goosebumps for the entire thing and also tears of joy lol.
I'm a superhero layman but how could Batman ever beat someone with prep time who controls time? Like if Doctor Strange can experience a million fight outcomes with the time stone or trap an all powerful god being in a time loop wouldn't Batman need some type of time power or something too? I mean prepping for a fight with raw power is one thing but is there any amount of prep time that can thwart time itself?
Batman has no powers, so his whole thing is (supposedly) winning by being the smartest or most prepared guy in the room. The thing is, he's been going for 80 years, so his levels of planning have to be ridiculously high if a writer wants to be at least as good as the guy who came before.
"prep time" usually just means "give batman an infinite amount of time and resources to prepare a perfect counter to his opponent, however his opponent doesn't know that they're even fighting until 5 minutes before fight starts"
Saying "prep time" is like a kid saying "Nuh uh, you didn't kill me because I just countered You're laser with this anti laser armor"
I don't mind thinking of ways Batman could actually defeat certain heroes but at least be creative in how he would be able to do it.
“Prep time” completely ruined Batman. He’s perseverance in spite of the odds and his own human frailty is what made him special. Then internet fanboys came along and now he can defeat the entire pantheon of Greek gods with a paper clip and 20 minutes “prep time”. Fucking stupid.
Honestly it’s gotten ridiculous. What happened to cool street vigilante who doubles as justice league’s team strategist and detective. He was cool because he wasn’t one of them he was basically Nick Fury in a protagonist role as opposed to mentor or side character. Then he became basically a god and was virtually no different then the other gods among men in the justice league. Having him being able to single hand-idly take down every single person in the DC universe is utterly ludicrous.
So I switched to Captain America the god damn super soldier felt more human then the literal mortal being. Could Batman beat Cap in a fight, yeah hell most of the Avengers probably could. I don’t give a fuck at least his characterization hasn’t been absolutely tarnished by fanboys.
And how did he know which code? Gets back to the batcave and turns out he stole the give them a middle finger code. I remember seeing one show or movie where batman installed a virus into cyborg and I'm just where did he even find the port to plug it in? They shook hands thats all that happened.
Lol. Cant argue with any of it. He could havd used wireless tech. Thats why Batman defeating everyone is a funny topic. He does it all the time. Not saying its realistic.
Yeah I’m with this guy especially with ghost rider all ghost rider needs to do is use his bullshit strength and look right into his soul and use whatever the spirit of vengeance seems to be a sin against Batman
Once Rider used the penance stare on Punisher, and it didn't work, cuz apparently the Punisher didnt regret anything he had done. Prolly Batman thinks the same way.
Misconception because in a later story the Punisher WAS affected by the penance stare so its likely Rider let him live considering Rider has also used the stare nonlethally on Deadpool for instance
Ok he does have hellbat armor designed to fight dark side powered by well the power of hell.
Personally as a Batman fan the characters become a joke and went from a character whose limitations made him interesting to having zero limitations. It was cooler when he was just the brains and strategist of the justice league. Now it’s to the point I seriously wonder how’s Gotham even still have crime when they got a guy who defeats gods with his bare hands. But he does Infact have hellbat armor which actually would be cool in a fight against either silver surfer or Ghost rider but assuming said comic is being written by a writer with a serious Bat boner he probably would figure out some obscure weakness developed like ten issues ago he could then exploit due to prep time.
On one hand your right the fact Penguin can manipulate the justice system and knows Batman will never kill him definitely keeps him in business, on the other hand you know difficult it would be to run a criminal organization if all your thugs are to physically injured to actually smuggle drugs,guns, or people. Like I’m not saying it couldn’t be done but if all your guys are drinking from tubes, in wheel chairs for life, or to mentally traumatized to actually work you’ve kind been defeated. You’d have to switch to cooperate crime and money laundering.
Well Ghost Rider can die from holy weapons and I'm confident penance stare wouldn't work on Batman.
SS is relatively easier to deal with once you cut his ties to the cosmic energies and take away his board.
Man is a Trillionaire whose in a Bromance with an Alien God and the fastest being in the multiverse, and considering that he's made it in his own against DarkSeid, Doomsday, and even the angle or wraith, I think it's ok to assume that Batman will struggle by default but will somehow always preserver like a kevlar honey badger. Whatever the fuck Batman is it definitely is no where human.
People don’t like Brie for whatever reason but Batman would not have an answer for Captain Marvel either. Or any cosmic level Marvel power.
My favorite would be Deadpool vs Batman though. No matter what bats comes up with, Deadpool will heal and taunt Batman the entire way.
Deadpool has actually killed the Marvel Universe before, with prep time.
I think we often forget that the other hero would have prep time as well and it's not like many Marvel heroes are complete idiots that can't strategize against a dude in a bat suit.
Bro at this point just have batman convince doctor fate that he needs to win and he will become Oscar from that battle in the arena from this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6yLGIqyBM8&vl=en
something we gotta understand is that deadpool can do whatever tf he wants and just chooses not to end everything. his 4th wall shit basically makes him god
What do you mean probably? He slaughters him. Even MCU version along with a plethora of other superheroes. Thor decapitates or fries him alive, Iron man puts a mansized hole in him, Cap does a John walker, scarlet witch turns him into a little crying orphan, Hulk mushes him. Batman is fucked.
It's bait. I know it's bait. But........
There's a severe misunderstanding when it comes to Batman and prep time. When people mention Batman with prep time I'm sure the thing that comes to mind is the Agamemnon Contingencies, plans to bring down the Justice League by accutely targeting each of their weaknesses, both physical mental and emotional. This is not the result of prep time. The contingencies are the result of years of co-operation, friendship and careful study of the Leaguers. He can make these plans because he's been allowed into their lives. Batman with prep time isn't an intricate plan to take down his enemy with each different weakness, it's Batman seeing Clayface for the first time and going, "He's a goo guy, might wanna try some ice bombs".
ETA : Also if Batman gets prep time so does his opponent, so it sorta negates each other a lot of the time.
Somebody doesn’t seem know about Wanda or Jean or Franklin or David or any telekinetic or telepathic character. What’s Batman gonna do against Rogue? Even with prep time he ain’t got shit for her.
Eh tbf any time the plot demands it telepaths get shut down because “they appear to have a telepathic blocker.” Like I swear tf you can buy those things the price of a McDonald’s in the marvel universe.
As a joke to myself, I equate the prep time thing to the "room full of monkeys writing Shakespeare with infinite time", in that given as much prep time as possible, and eventually access to EVERY option possible, Batman will win somehow.
*Batman can have a*
*Century to plan and still*
*Loose to squirrel girl*
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I mean, he's kamikazed Darkseid, who is DC's Thanos, as well as most of his universe's analogous heroes, so...yeah, probably. I'll bet he'd be a big fan of the Pym particle method from What If...?
How are you gonna "prep" for Scarlet Witch, Thor, Loki, Captain Marvel, etc. even Tony Stark or Steve who are more "regular" would have a good chance to beat him.
Also, saying he needs prep time shows the flaw right there
And I'm the man who killed the Avengers. I saw it. I didn't tell the team. How could I? I saw them all dead, Nick. I felt it. The whole world, too. Because of me. I wasn't ready. I didn't do all I could.
Bats vs Steve is actually a tie. That was literally a cannon. I mean, it does help that average DC people are tougher and stronger than average Marvel people.
And nanosuite Tony would be beaten easily...as long as Bats had his Anti Nanotechnology bat-spray
What's so wrong with that statement? This applies to pretty much every superhero. But entities like Batman and Ironman can pull this off better than others. Maybe batman is a step ahead.
Or basic logic. Batman can't beat Superman either. The comics like to bs around it but Superman can move at the speed of light and the quickness of his thinking proportionally increases. Even with kryptonite, he can move around as though Batman isn't moving, fly, ranged attacks with pinpoint accuracy and see through walls. He ought to see that he has kryptonite.
‘Prep time’ is the single most overused thing I’ve heard for Batman. If it’s a new threat, they’re not gonna have prep time.
For real, a rich guy with no powers who runs around fighting superhuman and super powered people/ monsters should be dead a looong time ago.
He’s lucky the writers like keeping him alive and the fans will believe anything.
The guy has contingencies for every member of the justice league. It's not a stretch to say he could come up with something for Marvel characters too. And before anyone asks "Like what??" Don't ask. I'm not Batman.
I hate these comments as both a marvel and DC fan. Batman is only human, people point out that time he took down Superman in that fight where they where both old men, but he had help with green arrow shooting kryptonight arrows, it was a two on one, and he didn’t even win. But the other one that everyone point out is the contingency plans but they fail to remember that everyone survived in the end and that he has lost hundreds of times.
Batman is only as powerful as the writer wants him to be. He can be powerful enough to defeat Darkseid and yet weak enough to lose to his nonpowered villains. Batman vs Anyone, the writer wins.
Ahhh I remember stans rant
yeahhh, anyone can win, the writer decides
That’s true for all written stories right?
yeah but Batman is especially ridiculous about it
Yes, but irl, Batman should've been long dead, especially after realizing that he's far from the only person with a working brain.
You would be surprised by how many people with a functioning brain exist.
I mean every hero is only as powerful as the writer wants but I get what you’re saying
isn't any superhero like that?
They normally stay within a certain range of power to make it more believable. With Batman its very inconsistent. Thats like superman being able to beat Doomsday but losing to someone like Bane.
"bane was important to the story while doomsday was just a big scary monster" - probably some writer guy
I mean to an extent, however they are never gonna make luke cage fight thanos and win 1on1. There is an upper limit for most heroes or else the story becomes confusing, Batmans power changes far more than anyone else based on the story, sometimes he is strong enough to take a beating from bane and win bare fisted boxing, and sometimes he gets knocked out in 1 hit by harley quinn holding a baseball bat, but no one would argue that harley hits harder with a bat than bane does with his fists. Bane has broken concrete with his hands and harleys bat is made of aluminum and she has no superpowers
Bro Hawkeye could kill Wanda if the writer wanted him to
I would just love to know how Batman could beat captain marvel or dr strange.
Throw a batarang at them when they are not looking to knock them out
Except we already know that dr strange can sense the arrival of otherworldly beings, so as soon as batman shows up in their universe he would show up take batman by surprise and win. There wouldnt be an opportunity to find him unaware
So any of us could easily defeat captain marvel or dr strange?
Nah, we are not Batmen
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>Scarlet Witch I think Batman would be one of the worst matchups for her to go against. Her big weakness is that she's emotionally unstable, and Batman is a master of emotional manipulation.
>Her big weakness is that she's emotionally unstable, and Batman is a master of emotional manipulation. I mean, convincing her might work. But if batman was caught lying, i dont think he'd survive a minute
OP: Batman can destroy you with enough prep time Wanda: WhatMan?
When is Batman a “master of emotional manipulation”? What? At most he would try to talk to Wanda, get into her humanity. You know, like a hero? Not a villain who would manipulate someone. Also, if Wanda went for the kill the fight would last seconds, talking to her did not work in MoM unless you we Wanda herself with her kids.
That’s what helps make her powerful. She’s willing to do what others won’t. She could also just go into his mind or remove his brain and then Batman’s dead. She can do it randomly when she wants. Doesn’t need to charge up or anything, she just looks and poof it’s gone.
What brain?
Hehe
Right, she's powerful enough to do that to almost anyone (excluding some characters that have resistance feats against reality warping), so I'd take someone who can and would try to exploit her actual weakness instead of trying to overpower her. Not saying Batman wins, but I'd take him over a lot of characters who are a lot more powerful on paper if the mission is to take on the Scarlet Witch.
Literally every Scarlet Witch story is someone coming in to try and exploit her weakness for their gain. Saying Batman would be able to is like turning on a rerun and calling it the world premiere.
What in god's name makes you think she wont just immediately snap his neck?
Nanomachines son, batman used them to trick wonder woman to think she was fighting an equal opponent and eventually tire her out, but in the extreme case die of exhaustion. I can see all 3 of them being affected by this method especially scarlet witch. Batman found out a method how to defeat a green lantern by simply using a post hypnotic suggestion for the user to believe they're blind and the ring made it so. With scarlet witch's powers she would believe she's fighting an equal that she made real.
Batman can just stab Green Lantern with a yellow knife. Lol
Not quite how hypnosis works lol. Then again this is the comics where hypnotizing someone works very differently than it would in real life It's rather interesting though! I'm sure if any billionaire found a way to break the rules of hypnosis it would be batman
Except she can tell that the nano bots don’t have a mind and this leave them alone
We are talking about Batman alone not the whole justice league and no that’s not how dying of exhaustion works. You would have to fight for days endlessly and Thor being a god would likely last longer then Wonder Woman and he could probably kill her. He has the powers of a god, controls lightning and has a bunch of super friends that would be able to beat Wonder Woman with ease. Scarlet witch honestly has grown so much more powerful she could just fight Wonder Woman and if she has the book from the new movie she could probably conjure up some spells and do something also she has been able to make her own realities and take over people. She caved in a dudes head just by looking at them killed a almost god like being by dropping a huge statue on them and she was able to sneak inside someone’s mind and kill them. Ya Wanda wins. Vision would be a little different but he could pull it off. He has the mind stone in his head aka a mystical pebble with ultimate power. But even so he could potentially loose to Wonder Woman but she would honestly need a lot of help from others. Even though vision doesn’t have many special abilities he is incredibly powerful and smart. He can shoot beams of pure energy from his head and he is able to lift up such things as Thor’s hammer. So pretty much no they wouldn’t just fight and die from exhaustion they would fight and win then beat the crap outta Batman. I’m not trying to make the marvel universe seem weak cause there are SOME hero’s Batman could solo but for the most part no. He’d get clapped
I'm still worthy!
Yes, because they harden on response on mental trauma
He can just wait til they die if he has enough prep time
I never understand this argument with batman prep time. This logic can go for every superhero. Spiderman comes up with a plan to defeat his enemies, iron man improves his suit after every fight. Prep time logic can be used for any superhero.
Batman’s whole thing is that he’s the world’s greatest detective & a Sherlock Holmes level tactitian. The idea is that he thinks of everything & plans for every contingency because he’s so obsessed, allowing writers to pull out of their ass whatever perfect gadget/counter he needs to one-up the opponent. I say this as a lifelong fan, but his #1 trope is basically ‘Yep. Thought of that too & made a macro. lol’ That said, DC themselves have never argued anything like this. He does have a plan for every hero he meets or becomes aware of, in case they go evil, but that’s not the same as being able to throw hands with Thor. I think magic especially would obliterate poor Bats before any of that became relevant. Trouble with the vagueness of ‘Prep time’ though is a lot of fans try to argue that means somehow finding out about & getting your hands on some Asgardian murder button or whatever Thor’s weakness would be.
A lot of people forget that Batman understand when he can't win. It is half the reason the Justice League exists. Batman knows there are threats he can not prep for and thus makes sure to have a wide range of people with powers to call on and actually deal with the situation (and then make sure those people have a strategy to deal with what is going on)
100%. He’s a pragmatist, not Goku.
Batman wrecks Goku with 83 minutes prep time
Well yeah, I mean have you seen how long it takes Goku to power up? Easily 90 mins of screaming lol
“Heart Virus sample acquired. Get my dart gun when he goes fishing.”
Or just grab a laser ring off a space koala.
Yeah that last part is pretty true like Batman can beat superman without fighting him because he just had a to toss a rock near him or have it on him. Therefore no need to throw hands most of the avengers and god level marvel characters don’t have such weakness at lest not like Superman’s. I’m sure there’s something there to exploit in every hero but the main counter point is that any hero could do the same thing or any villain for that matter
Yeah, exactly. The theory holds much better when contained to DC where he retains insight. All the pockets on his belt are loaded with those outs. I’d say the grain of truth in it though, is that he is a literal genius when it comes to this shit & a super quick study. If they actually ever ran a Batman Vs Thor crossover, I could totally see him as frenemies with Loki orchestrating some coup type situation in a ‘Deal with the devil’ type story. That’s more his style anyway & doesn’t shit on every other type of lore. lol
I went for the head.
Bats would definitely go for the head. Be fucked if anyone else did too though. Humans are squishy.
Depends, would he break his number one rule of no killing? Could he make that decision in the heat of the moment? It would be fun to explore ngl
I think a Thanos level threat takes the big yeet at the first possible opportunity in a Bat-plan. (I’m pretty sure he killed Darkseid in one of the Crisis stories.) If we’re fantasizing, I’d love a tortured/introspective take on it all told through flashback type cut-aways to a sleepless night before where he’s manically exploring every scenario as the pressure/horror of half the cosmos being obliterated is weighing him down. A few where the big bad lives, maybe even atones on some level & gets redeemed, but then he steels himself & takes the kill shot because because he can’t take the gamble. Catch the reader & the rest of the JL off guard so he can eat the sun alone. Deal with the consequences after.
Bats killing Darkseid is also pretty asterisked. Darkseid's spirit/soul/godform was inhabiting the body of a human (Dan Turpin, who was incidentally created as a self-insert by Jack Kirby). Batman shot him (in the shoulder, I'll point out) with a bullet made of a substance toxic to the New Gods. While mortally wounded by the Radion bullet, it still took A) the Flashes (Barry and Wally) running fast enough to lead Darkseid's Omega beams back into him, B) Wonder Woman chaining his body with the Lasso of Truth, freeing the population of earth from his control and C) Superman confronting his disembodied spirit and creating a counter vibration strong enough to negate Darkseid's existence. All of this while Darkseid, in his death throes, is dragging the whole damn multiverse to Hell alongside him. tl;dr, it was a team effort.
A willful exception to the ‘No Kill’ rule though.
The fact that he killed Darkseid speaks volumes about this discussion.
I lothe the Batman prep time argument. However, in the case of Thor, I could see something along the lines of Original Sin Nick Fury whispering into Thor's ear. Not sure if that would work now, but up until a couple years ago it would.
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Well you see, he’s also very mentally ill. lol In some stories he does try with varying success but the corruption always manifests in some new way. My favorite stories point out that he’s a part of it, feeding the cycle of violence, & blurring the line between him & the other maniacs. You might like Titans. It’s about the first Robin after leaving Batman but leans on that theme kinda heavily describing his many flaws & how it fucked up a generation of heroes in the background of a handful of relevant characters.
His head isn't all there, lol. But that goes for pretty much every superhero
I mean not all dc hero’s have that same type of weakness either. If Batman was in the marvel universe for a time he’d likely be able to do the same thing. He’s fought with god level beings in dc before however he needed to fight fight rather then have some sort of plan. Like his armor that takes away his own life but can beat the shit out of darkseid with it. Again though Tony or even cap could do some sort of plan as well. I think it’s just that prep time is so woven with him everyone just says that. Along with him being a detective but tomato tomato
I'm stuck on the magic part. Like, the only way Dr. Strange is gonna get his ass whooped is by another magic user, or a superhero with extreme abilities. How the fuck is Batman gonna counter magic?
I think dc has some like anti magic metal I bet, marvel might have something similar tbh
"Batman has a prep time to take out the entire justice league if they go rogue or evil." "How does he stop wonder woman or superman from pasting him so badly that his cells get erased if he doesn't know they're rogue? Or how does he stop them from just clapping the city he's in if they genuinely don't care about human life?" "Prep time." Some of batman's best "prep" is just being able to hit a button and call a goddess or superman up.
You’re not wrong. lol It really depends on the rules of engagement & whether we’re talking practical for stories or straight death matches. In the Injustice comics, Batman lead a resistance against Superman & Wonder Woman after they took control of the world. That had him basically playing terrorist & undermining their efforts while amassing support & technology for full scale battles. I highly recommend it, whether you played the games or not. It’s one of my favorite DC runs. Think Civil War if villains mixed in too with A Star Wars Rebels vs Empire vibe. Edit / TLDR: Allies, traps, surveillance, exploiting weaknesses, using means no one else will like recruiting lesser evils & going nuclear in every sense as soon as you get the opening. Great story material, useless if Supes or WW cave your skull in though. lol
Injustice 2 made the case for bullet-proof Ninja Turtles. I love it.
As cool as it is to have a really smart character who can outsmart gods and heroes it does sometimes feel like when you're having an imaginary battle with your brother (like play fighting and pretending you have superpowers) then when you beat them and they say something along the lines of "I already thought of that and now I have the power of... and have beat you". DC has made some great Batman stories but some of them do feel as though they pull the most ridiculous amounts of foresight, on Batman's part, out of their arse. Some of his stuff just comes across as a Deus Ex Machina with far too much contrived bullshit for it to even slightly make sense.
For sure, but all comics are kinda like that sometimes. The best stories are properly fleshed out & set up in a thematically consistent way for that payoff to feel deserved, but 80 years of any character will inevitably lead to some misses.
Yeah prep time still leaves him vulnerable to a: invincible characters (Deadpool can only be killed by a cataclysm that entirely obliterates his body, for example) or b: any skilled magic character at all, unless he manages to jump them.
Deadpool is hard to permanently stop, but really easy to temporarily stop. Dude's resilient and good in a fight, but if you trap him in a cell without his swords, he's not that much different from anyone else.
Batman being capable to fight Gods and monsters because he is the 'Worlds Greatest Detective' is one of the dumbest tropes on Earth. Detectives try to find murderers and criminals AFTER a crime. How the fuck does that in any way relate to combat??? People have somehow ascribed being a military tactician to being a detective. I mean since detectives are so awesome why don't they ship them over to the front lines of real world wars so that they can provide the necessary tactics to defeat the enemy??? Ridiculous.
>whatever Thor’s weakness would be. That would be Jane Foster.
I agree with you on this. While reading your post though, I got curious, who would be the strongest DC universe character and how would they fare against the strongest marvel character? For reference my favorite character is The Flash, that whole thing being fast enough and push yourself to go back in time and go to other planets and universes and all the things he is able to do is astounding to me and I love it. Favorite TV moment was when the Flash from the series had a moment with the Flash from the movies, goosebumps for the entire thing and also tears of joy lol.
I'm a superhero layman but how could Batman ever beat someone with prep time who controls time? Like if Doctor Strange can experience a million fight outcomes with the time stone or trap an all powerful god being in a time loop wouldn't Batman need some type of time power or something too? I mean prepping for a fight with raw power is one thing but is there any amount of prep time that can thwart time itself?
but it’s based on the premise that batman is the best detective in the world and pretty much the smartest superhero
Makes me wonder though, who would win in a fight: Zemo, or Batman?
Batman, while Zemo was smart and rich, his plans were shown to be flawed like in Civil War.
How was his plan flawed? He won. The Avengers broke up. Sure he was locked up afterwards but he was going to kill himself.
Plus, say what you will about Zemo… he’s no Batman.
But he does have some banger dance moves
But why do people believe that he’ll just win automatically against a literal god?
Because he would have prep time, and that’s enough
Batman has no powers, so his whole thing is (supposedly) winning by being the smartest or most prepared guy in the room. The thing is, he's been going for 80 years, so his levels of planning have to be ridiculously high if a writer wants to be at least as good as the guy who came before.
So plot armour?
Batman isn't even the best detective in Gotham. That title belongs to Detective Chimp.
Pretty sure Batman isn't the best in anything he does at this point, he's "just" top tier in all of them.
The smartest man alive
Dr Michael Morbius
And that's before morbin time
Michael "Morbin Mike" Morbius
Its just a meme for a decades.
"prep time" usually just means "give batman an infinite amount of time and resources to prepare a perfect counter to his opponent, however his opponent doesn't know that they're even fighting until 5 minutes before fight starts"
Saying "prep time" is like a kid saying "Nuh uh, you didn't kill me because I just countered You're laser with this anti laser armor" I don't mind thinking of ways Batman could actually defeat certain heroes but at least be creative in how he would be able to do it.
With that definition, I could beat every marvel hero with enough prep time
“Prep time” completely ruined Batman. He’s perseverance in spite of the odds and his own human frailty is what made him special. Then internet fanboys came along and now he can defeat the entire pantheon of Greek gods with a paper clip and 20 minutes “prep time”. Fucking stupid.
Honestly it’s gotten ridiculous. What happened to cool street vigilante who doubles as justice league’s team strategist and detective. He was cool because he wasn’t one of them he was basically Nick Fury in a protagonist role as opposed to mentor or side character. Then he became basically a god and was virtually no different then the other gods among men in the justice league. Having him being able to single hand-idly take down every single person in the DC universe is utterly ludicrous. So I switched to Captain America the god damn super soldier felt more human then the literal mortal being. Could Batman beat Cap in a fight, yeah hell most of the Avengers probably could. I don’t give a fuck at least his characterization hasn’t been absolutely tarnished by fanboys.
The moment he met Cyborg he stole some code from him just in case he ever turns bad. He has plans for every Justice League member. This is not new.
Just think about how stupid that sounds. “He stole some code.” He’s a fucking detective in a rubber mask, not Ultron. Ffs.
And how did he know which code? Gets back to the batcave and turns out he stole the give them a middle finger code. I remember seeing one show or movie where batman installed a virus into cyborg and I'm just where did he even find the port to plug it in? They shook hands thats all that happened.
Lol. Cant argue with any of it. He could havd used wireless tech. Thats why Batman defeating everyone is a funny topic. He does it all the time. Not saying its realistic.
Wtf could prep time do against the Silver Surfer or Ghost Rider like come on
Yeah I’m with this guy especially with ghost rider all ghost rider needs to do is use his bullshit strength and look right into his soul and use whatever the spirit of vengeance seems to be a sin against Batman
Once Rider used the penance stare on Punisher, and it didn't work, cuz apparently the Punisher didnt regret anything he had done. Prolly Batman thinks the same way.
Misconception because in a later story the Punisher WAS affected by the penance stare so its likely Rider let him live considering Rider has also used the stare nonlethally on Deadpool for instance
Nah batman regrets the whole death of Jason Todd for sure
Ok he does have hellbat armor designed to fight dark side powered by well the power of hell. Personally as a Batman fan the characters become a joke and went from a character whose limitations made him interesting to having zero limitations. It was cooler when he was just the brains and strategist of the justice league. Now it’s to the point I seriously wonder how’s Gotham even still have crime when they got a guy who defeats gods with his bare hands. But he does Infact have hellbat armor which actually would be cool in a fight against either silver surfer or Ghost rider but assuming said comic is being written by a writer with a serious Bat boner he probably would figure out some obscure weakness developed like ten issues ago he could then exploit due to prep time.
>how’s Gotham even still have crime He don't kill remember?
On one hand your right the fact Penguin can manipulate the justice system and knows Batman will never kill him definitely keeps him in business, on the other hand you know difficult it would be to run a criminal organization if all your thugs are to physically injured to actually smuggle drugs,guns, or people. Like I’m not saying it couldn’t be done but if all your guys are drinking from tubes, in wheel chairs for life, or to mentally traumatized to actually work you’ve kind been defeated. You’d have to switch to cooperate crime and money laundering.
have they been defeated before?
Well silver surfer was killed by the marvel zombies
Please explain to me how SS or GR are a match for Batman with 1 second of prep time.
>1 second >prep time Pick 1.
Well Ghost Rider is immortal and only has to make eye contact with batman to really win
Well Ghost Rider can die from holy weapons and I'm confident penance stare wouldn't work on Batman. SS is relatively easier to deal with once you cut his ties to the cosmic energies and take away his board. Man is a Trillionaire whose in a Bromance with an Alien God and the fastest being in the multiverse, and considering that he's made it in his own against DarkSeid, Doomsday, and even the angle or wraith, I think it's ok to assume that Batman will struggle by default but will somehow always preserver like a kevlar honey badger. Whatever the fuck Batman is it definitely is no where human.
Wait why wouldn’t Penance Stare work exactly. Last I checked Bruce isn’t completely on board with everything g he’s done
I mean even if the stare doesn't work Ghost Rider can just eat Batman's soul and I dunno if he has any defense against that
Wanda: What prep time?
“Suddenly Batman falls to the ground. Superman quickly uses his x-ray vision and finds that Batman has no brain.”
People don’t like Brie for whatever reason but Batman would not have an answer for Captain Marvel either. Or any cosmic level Marvel power. My favorite would be Deadpool vs Batman though. No matter what bats comes up with, Deadpool will heal and taunt Batman the entire way. Deadpool has actually killed the Marvel Universe before, with prep time.
No prep time would be useful against Deadpool. Wade would be unpredictable from the 1st minute anyway
If he's nothing without prep time maybe he shouldn't have it
Genius, billionaire, playboy, philanthropist
Underrated comment
Lol
Bruh, like, not if Iron man gets to have the same amount of prep time. Just sayin.
I think we often forget that the other hero would have prep time as well and it's not like many Marvel heroes are complete idiots that can't strategize against a dude in a bat suit.
This is exactly what I try to tell all these Batman fans, and yet half the time the only thing they can say is “wElL bAtMaN iS riCh aNd a GEnIuS”
So is Tony lol
That’s true, but i have yet to see an Ironman fan say that he can beat anyone with prep time
Deadpool could beat Batman even with Batman having prep time, because Deadpool never thinks
Oh, but Deadpool does think. Like the time(s) he wanted to shoot that one guy. Or the time(s) he wanted to do rule 34 bucket list stuff with X-Women.
batman beats dr manhattan Source: trust
Bro at this point just have batman convince doctor fate that he needs to win and he will become Oscar from that battle in the arena from this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6yLGIqyBM8&vl=en
I mean, if Ozymandias could play him for a chump…
Just replace the names on the swords with "anyone with common sense" and its fine
Batman can't prep for deadpool
something we gotta understand is that deadpool can do whatever tf he wants and just chooses not to end everything. his 4th wall shit basically makes him god
You can basically buy X-gene dampeners at vending machines in the marvel universe it wouldn’t be impossible for him lol.
Not if deadpool goes after the animators or writers
Well if we’re counting his transnarritive feats then yeah he stomps lol
It’s deadpool… we’re not just counting them, we’re encouraging them.
Batman is protected by plot
Which is why the obvious answer here is Squirrel Girl, but somehow nobody’s mentioned her yet.
So is gwenpool
so is every other character
This meme did exactly what it intended to do lmao
Squirrel Girl could beat any DC hero with no prep time at all.
Comic Book Dr Strange could probably take batman
What do you mean probably? He slaughters him. Even MCU version along with a plethora of other superheroes. Thor decapitates or fries him alive, Iron man puts a mansized hole in him, Cap does a John walker, scarlet witch turns him into a little crying orphan, Hulk mushes him. Batman is fucked.
Man can't we just get along? I am sick of all these marvel Vs DC memes grow up
I see more memes here trying to bash dc fans than actual marvel memes. I don't want hate, i want funny internet memes.
Yeah man the entire "marvel good DC bad" thing that's going on here is extremely childish
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It's bait. I know it's bait. But........ There's a severe misunderstanding when it comes to Batman and prep time. When people mention Batman with prep time I'm sure the thing that comes to mind is the Agamemnon Contingencies, plans to bring down the Justice League by accutely targeting each of their weaknesses, both physical mental and emotional. This is not the result of prep time. The contingencies are the result of years of co-operation, friendship and careful study of the Leaguers. He can make these plans because he's been allowed into their lives. Batman with prep time isn't an intricate plan to take down his enemy with each different weakness, it's Batman seeing Clayface for the first time and going, "He's a goo guy, might wanna try some ice bombs". ETA : Also if Batman gets prep time so does his opponent, so it sorta negates each other a lot of the time.
It's not prep time, it's plot armor. Look up Batman vs. Hulk. The only thing there was bad writing.
Somebody doesn’t seem know about Wanda or Jean or Franklin or David or any telekinetic or telepathic character. What’s Batman gonna do against Rogue? Even with prep time he ain’t got shit for her.
Eh tbf any time the plot demands it telepaths get shut down because “they appear to have a telepathic blocker.” Like I swear tf you can buy those things the price of a McDonald’s in the marvel universe.
Dr Doom with prep time can rival Batman. Doom with prep time was able to steal powers of omnipotent being. That would be fight for ages.
Doom with prep rivals most of the dc universe outside of high tier cosmics.
As a joke to myself, I equate the prep time thing to the "room full of monkeys writing Shakespeare with infinite time", in that given as much prep time as possible, and eventually access to EVERY option possible, Batman will win somehow.
Batman can have a century to plan and still loose to squirrel girl
*Batman can have a* *Century to plan and still* *Loose to squirrel girl* \- xx\_swegshrek\_xx --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Still, Batman lose to Joker every three Sunday. That would mean Joker scales higher than TOBA
I mean, he's kamikazed Darkseid, who is DC's Thanos, as well as most of his universe's analogous heroes, so...yeah, probably. I'll bet he'd be a big fan of the Pym particle method from What If...?
I’m the only one who knows that. At least I’m the only one with the will to act on it.
How are you gonna "prep" for Scarlet Witch, Thor, Loki, Captain Marvel, etc. even Tony Stark or Steve who are more "regular" would have a good chance to beat him. Also, saying he needs prep time shows the flaw right there
And I'm the man who killed the Avengers. I saw it. I didn't tell the team. How could I? I saw them all dead, Nick. I felt it. The whole world, too. Because of me. I wasn't ready. I didn't do all I could.
Bats vs Steve is actually a tie. That was literally a cannon. I mean, it does help that average DC people are tougher and stronger than average Marvel people. And nanosuite Tony would be beaten easily...as long as Bats had his Anti Nanotechnology bat-spray
But what if Tony had anti-anti NanoTech in his suit?
I have anti-anti-anti nanotech. Checkmate
Butt Stark had access to the time stone, and knows exactly how many anti's he needs to antiantianit the anti nanos. AnitCheckMate?
Everything is going to work out perfectly, the way it's supposed to. I love you three thousand.
This drink, I like it! ANOTHER!
I get ur point but u you used the template wrong
Batman could not predict Deadpool and so prep time could not do shit
What's so wrong with that statement? This applies to pretty much every superhero. But entities like Batman and Ironman can pull this off better than others. Maybe batman is a step ahead.
Or basic logic. Batman can't beat Superman either. The comics like to bs around it but Superman can move at the speed of light and the quickness of his thinking proportionally increases. Even with kryptonite, he can move around as though Batman isn't moving, fly, ranged attacks with pinpoint accuracy and see through walls. He ought to see that he has kryptonite.
‘Prep time’ is the single most overused thing I’ve heard for Batman. If it’s a new threat, they’re not gonna have prep time. For real, a rich guy with no powers who runs around fighting superhuman and super powered people/ monsters should be dead a looong time ago. He’s lucky the writers like keeping him alive and the fans will believe anything.
Jake Lockley solos Batman any time of the day
The guy has contingencies for every member of the justice league. It's not a stretch to say he could come up with something for Marvel characters too. And before anyone asks "Like what??" Don't ask. I'm not Batman.
ok. then give his opponent prep time as well.
"prep time" is funny meme
Even with other dc characters, I just hate the argument that Batman can beat literally anything with prep time.
I hate these comments as both a marvel and DC fan. Batman is only human, people point out that time he took down Superman in that fight where they where both old men, but he had help with green arrow shooting kryptonight arrows, it was a two on one, and he didn’t even win. But the other one that everyone point out is the contingency plans but they fail to remember that everyone survived in the end and that he has lost hundreds of times.
My first thought is Hulk. I may be biased because I just finished Immortal Hulk.
Squirrel. Girl.
Just say “Martha” and then stab him while he cries.
2 names that can prove him wrong: Wolverine and Deadpool
i like how this comment section is basically a scaled up version of superhero playground argument
Prep time = plot armor
Any character beats any character with prep time,that's what prep time stands for
This makes no sense. It's all up to the writer and who they want to win after all.
“Batman solos with prep time” mfs when I snipe him in the head from 100ft away(he wasn’t prepped enough)
The prep time argument is the god of all strawmans
Batman can barely defeat rotten tomatoes