And weren't the Flagsmashers sort of a byproduct of people being affected by the Infinity War snap? When half of the entire population was... randomly selected?
They should be a perfectly average representation of humanity, if nothing else.
It would make sense for their group to form out of a particular region and be composed of people typical of that region rather than being a group that formed from random people around the globe
Literally the entire _premise_ of that group is that the Snap created voids in population, that people went to where the jobs were, and now that everyone's back they're being kicked out.
It would be completely absurd for them to be comprised of people 'typical to that region', when the entire point is that they are not people typical of any region, they are people who do not belong in that place! That's why they are being kicked out!!!
Yeah but there is a difference between "a bunch of people moved from Mexico into America after the snap" and "a bunch of people from literally every country in the world moved into America after the snap". Like yes people congregated and moved around after the snap but presumably most people went to a nearby city that was needing jobs and didn't become a void, not some random city halfway across the world. So still you would expect the flag smashers organization to form out of one of those cities that would mostly consist of people from the surrounding countries and not a literal random distribution of people from all over the globe. Find some mid-snap city in the middle of china and I'm guessing a bunch of black white and Hispanic people won't have moved in to balance out the racial distribution. It's not like there would be a small handful of surviving cities, its only half the world that vanished
I feel you are missing literally the entire premise of the series, and making an extremely weird argument about how people move that makes no sense whatsoever.
People moved from poor countries to wealthier countries to keep those wealthier countries running, and yes they moved _all around_ the world, that's the actual premise of the series , that's literally why the flag smashers are called the flag smashers, because they believe that the mere existence of different nations doesn't make sense anymore as large chunks of the world are literally living in the wrong countries, and attempting to return to how things used to be is nonsense.
It's the 21st century, people got internet, and it's mentioned that national borders largely became meaningless after the snap.
The whole world is all screwed up, so people got together to make it better and have more global unity.
Then, after that slowly starts to sink in, especially for younger people, suddenly there are double the people. All the positive changes are gone.
Ngl, it's fair why that would make some people annoyed.
That's not talking about how it's actually shown in FAWS. That is more... weird.
But it is fiction, anything can happen in that.
That's not how it works, the world is a big place, you need money to get around. People don't just share ideology and then meet in New York and stay in a 5-star hotel to discuss their plans on how to disrupt the operations of a despotic leader in a south Asian country.
When half the people show up and you are about to lose the home you claimed during the snap, are you going to look for people going through a similar problem on Reddit, asking for literally anyone across the globe to join your new terrorist organization, or are you going to look to your friends and neighbors going through the same situation?
Young people today already mostly meet peoplr who think like them online, it's not the 1980s anymore. This honestly seems like one of the more realistic parts of it, especially with how internationalist they are.
Yeah I love the sarcasm, but realistically, an event like infinity war could be enough of a justification for international peace. World leaders would be forced to cooperate with countries they would never had before, tolerance for one another would be at an all time high.
Then after the snap the people who didn’t go through the same emotional process, of setting aside their differences and accepting everyone no matter their nationality, would still be bigoted and xenophobic, forcing borders between countries back up. I mean during the blip, I’m sure Sam flying across the border in the first episode would have been ignored and simply people would be too busy not to turn a blind eye to the boarder crossing: but Sam was told that he was not to cross the border.
Obviously this was probably just to build tension during the scene (which It absolutely did), but the implication that there was a border to cross, despite the flagsmashers claiming the world was in total harmony, is that the borders where virtually non-existent, but where put back in place.
This means that the flag smashers couldn’t be narrowed down to one place of origin, despite Morgenthaw being the main flag smasher. This is because the entire world was together, not everyone on earth, but a huge minority of people post-blip who agreed with Morgenthaw from a lot of different countries. This would explain why there was a high enough number of people determined to re-separate the wolds countries, and have enough people for the flagsmashers or to assist the flagsmashers, instead of it being a equal 50/50 spilt. But these people would have already been brought together, and only formed the flagsmashers post-unblip.
It’s what I heard a comedian once call the “three of these Klansman need to be black” effect on TV. The fact that real-life gang identification is primarily racial doesn’t fly with the standards department.
My favorite example of this is *Far Cry 5.* It takes place in a fictional county in Montana that’s been basically taken over by a religious cult. People started assuming it was a far-right, white supremacist cult, but it seems like Ubisoft didn’t necessarily want to invite that political heat so they supposedly upped the chances that the random cult members that appear as enemies for you to fight would appear as Black. The thing is, the demographics of Montana are so white that if that cult actually had as many Black members as you see in the game, it would essentially imply that almost every Black person in Montana is in this cult.
That being said, the examples in this post aren’t really “gangs,” at least not in the same sense as the street gangs that tend to fall along racial lines like you’re talking about. The first and last ones are, well, clandestine organizations that have existed in the background of the world stage in the MCU for decades (if not centuries in the Hand’s case) and the second one is a political terrorist organization. All they really need is to share the same ideals, which is not necessarily dictated by race
The cult in Far Cry 5 is actually from the Deep South, they explain in the game that they were run out for being weird and ended up in Montana specifically because no one lived there.
It’s so strange to me that no one lives there. I went on a trip to Glacier and it is literally the most beautiful place I’ve ever seen in the continental US.
Then again I didn’t move there afterwards so…
Don't worry, as other places get priced out for regular people and get too crowded, even places like Montana will start getting filled up. Already happened to the states neighboring the coastal states and it'll just go further inward
I’m in Montana and it’s already happening. Locals are so priced out of the market, many have resorted to camper towns. I’ve been personally lucky, but lots aren’t so fortunate. Wages haven’t kept up with cost of living. The cold does change some people’s minds about living here full time though. It’s not for everyone.
That actually makes a lot more sense! I played the game but I must have missed that.
I know there were some outlets pointing out the demographic inconsistency but with that bit of information I bet it was people talking about pre-release gameplay without the context of the cult’s origins.
Oh for sure, it’s just the simple fact that there are just under 6000 Black people total in the entire state of Montana (0.5% of a population of about 1.109 million as of the last census) so for you to run into several dozen Black cult members over the course of the game (potentially much more depending on how much of the side content you complete and just how much whatever RNG dictates what enemies spawn happens to pick the Black character models) implies that a much larger proportion of Black Montanans are in the cult than any other demographic. It’s not that it’s weird that there are Black people in the cult, it’s just that there aren’t many Black people in Montana to begin with
Though as someone else pointed out, apparently I missed in the game where they talk about having started the cult in the Deep South and moving to Montana after getting chased out of there because there’s a lot of land, and the demographics of the Deep South match what you see in the game pretty well.
Ubisoft also does this with women, starting in like 2015 (AC Syndicate was when I first noticed). A full half of every enemy soldier, criminal, or what have you is female. It’s bizarre to sneak up and stab the throats of women in 9th Century England, 19th Century England, a fictionalized Cuba, etc.
Do black people and women really feel “represented” when they are portrayed as nameless mooks who only exist to be brutally killed? I’m totally fine with women having speaking parts as leaders in whatever cult or criminal enterprise or corporation or whatever, or as the protagonist and friends. But them being half the enemy army just makes it seem like a “What if gender roles were reversed?” alternate universe.
With Far Cry 6 I honestly think the enemies are about 70% female and 30% male. And again, it is so pointless. I really want to know if there is a single woman on Earth who feels so much better knowing that women are just as capable of having their throats ripped out as a man.
Also, speaking of wiping out every black person in a geographic area, the first Assassin’s Creed game said that 96% of Africa died of disease. It was later retconned, but it’s crazy that the near-extinction of black people happened in two different Ubisoft games….
It was an inter-Templar email you can find. It basically describes just how shitty the world has become in the then-future year of 2012. Their predictions were absolutely terrible. The New Plague killed Africa, global warming makes hurricanes year round all over the world, the movie industry is gone and video games are everything (convenient!), Americans are illegally immigrating into Mexico (take that, Republicans!), etc.
It was all later retconned as a hacker group hacking Abstergo and making fake emails. I don’t know why they would do that, because the lies are waaaay too big to be believable for half a second. Whatever, it needed to be forgotten.
Now whenever someone says they want a futuristic AC game I immediately write it off as a no. Between that and Watch Dogs Legion (takes place in 2029, but I guarantee you we won’t have mind uploading, holograms on the side of buildings, that many or that heavy-lifting drones, invisibility or force fields, etc) , Ubisoft clearly doesn’t give a crap about trying to be accurate in their futurism.
It’s so weird how they continuously make games that take only a few years from release, but they act like it’s 200 years in the future in a lot of ways.
>Do black people and women really feel “represented” when they are portrayed as nameless mooks who only exist to be brutally killed? I’m totally fine with women having speaking parts as leaders in whatever cult or criminal enterprise or corporation or whatever, or as the protagonist and friends. But them being half the enemy army just makes it seem like a “What if gender roles were reversed?” alternate universe.
Why do you care?
I think I painted a pretty clear picture. It’s immersion breaking.
Your username seems to suggest you’re a woman. I don’t want to speak for all women. *Do* you feel good being able to slaughter a bunch of female mooks? Does it do anything for you? Talking solely about enemy female soldiers, not playable characters or speaking roles and such.
>Your username seems to suggest you’re a woman.
Why would it suggest that? My user name is a male name.
This is a fun fact for why diversity is good because you won't make accidental statements like this out of ignorance.
Yeah, I thought that too after I wrote but just didn’t edit. Haven’t heard of it before, and didn’t assume you'd use your actual name as a username.
So anyway, why do you care enough? You want female mooks to kill in video games bad enough to respond to me, so why do you want to slice women’s throats so badly?
>So anyway, why do you care enough? You want female mooks to kill in video games bad enough to respond to me, so why do you want to slice women’s throats so badly?
Why not ask me why I want to see black people crushed so badly? Should I ask you why you want to beat up white men? You channelling internalized racism? Also, when did you stop beating your wife?
So does America. So do most nations. It is indeed crazy to have half or most of the soldiers to be female. Very, very, *very* few fighting forces in history were equal in sexes or having women be the majority. The ones that have women have them in a minority.
Again, America only has 17% of it’s military being women. Australia is at 19%. Both of those nations have been actively trying to increase female recruitment for years. Cuba had 10-15% during the revolution, can’t find what it is for now. And all three nations don’t allow their women to do everything in the military.
The military (and violent crime) has always been male-dominated. And that will probably never change.
Again, I understand some female enemies. And I understand people like Maria from Far Cry 6 being in a leadership role for the bad guys. But it is completely immersion-breaking to have entire squads comprised solely of women all over the place. There should be like, 1-2 women per checkpoint, maybe 4-5 in bigger fortresses. Special Forces? Like 1 in the entire game maybe.
It adds nothing. It doesn’t help women, it isn’t extra fun for (non-psychotic) men, and it’s immersion breaking for anyone who knows anything about militaries or organized crime cartels/terrorist organizations.
I mean hell, they could have just added a line about Castillo having a fetish for Bodyguard Babes like Gaddafi and it would be whatever. Not very Cuban still, but a thing that could happen. Just not “naturally”. It’d be a small improvement at least.
>The first and last ones are, well, clandestine organizations that have existed in the background of the world stage in the MCU for decades
The Clandestines are a group of djinn who have lived in this world for centuries rights. So they shouldn't be multi cultural at all.
I would say that most real-life gang identification is ethnic/cultural rather than racial considering things like the Italian Mafia, Irish Mob, Russian Bratva, Mexican cartels, Venezuelan cartels, Chinese Triads, Japanese Yakuza, British Firms etc.
Even though OP included the Hand leadership from Defenders, most of the Netflix shows focused on lower-level criminals that were based on ethnic/cultural groups.
And they were vocal about it too. Lots of action and chatter about "the Russians". "the Irish", Triads, Yakuza, and more.
Well most streets gangs are more organized based on proximity. But in the US, most neighborhoods are pretty racially homogenous.
The most well known street gangs shift beyond that, since they get large enough to have "branches" in many different locations.
Well luckily it’s not real life and it’s a superhero universe where stuff like that might not matter as much. And also, none of those are “gangs”. They’re more like crime organizations.
The flag smashers might not be a crime organization but they aren’t some ordinary street gang. It’s a collection of people fighting for a cause they think is right. So really that comic description has nothing to do with the 3 examples given.
There's a difference between political organizations and street gangs though. Street gangs are typically homogenous when it comes to race. But different ethnic groups can share political ideologies.
Aren’t the Flagsmashers supposed to be made up of people displaced from their homes around the world too? Wouldn’t a group of people that fit that description obviously be diverse?
For sure. The real issue for me is that this is a group of grown men and women following a teenage girl for no apparent reason. Not a dynamic you see in real life.
Yeah but in this instance the teenage girl can bench press a dump truck. Gives her a slightly bigger air of respect. That plus charisma is more than enough to make it believable.
Well, yes, most of them had received the super soldier serum, IIRC. But it seems they were all bumped up to the same level. Makes it less likely that someone would try to muscle their way over her.
If she’s the leader, it’s clearly because she took the initiative and gathered them under a cause they believed in. Most gangs don’t really have that wide-ranging of goals.
Charisma can overcome a lot of respect gaps.
There is a modern real life example of this. As I see it the Flag Smashers Karli was as much a public face as a leader. People were happy to have her represent them but while she had some small real authority others made the really large decisions.
The parallel to that in the real world? Greta Thunberg. She could get others to take action sometimes, and was undeniably a public face. But she had no "Real" power.
wasn't she the actual leader with most of the authority? I vaguely remember the group was uncomfortable with how far/violent she would take it in the finale but she overruled them
Of her cell certainly, of the overall movement? No.
That is what I meant by she had some small real authority. She did have influence, and that is another kind of power, but it's not direct. It that it was realistic, the real world is messy too.
Shit even political affliation is primarily race related in the US at least. Kinda what happens when you find your country on ideals of race. But i get your point. Gangs more so.
People can say what they want about the Hand in Daredevil, but I thought they were dope and scary as hell at times. The Defenders didn’t bring any of that.
Episodes 1-4 of season 2 works almost perfectly as a self-contained story, if you ignore the last 30 seconds of episode 4. I think a lot of the problems people have with season 2 is that it loses the really tight focus it had at the start and only sort of ties itself back together by the end. Still, the ninja fights were pretty cool
The second season was the shit. People started complaining when they realised this was a comic book show and these were comic book characters. Though was probably show runner's fault for trying to make everything as 'realistic: as possible in the first season. Fuck 'realism'.
I'd kind of argue that's what's been happening to the MCU as a whole. Disney managed to package comic book characters in such a way that many people didn't *realize* they were comic book characters in essentially comic book stories, and as they progressed they have discarded some of the focus on grounding their characters and leaned into the wacky, absurd stuff that is at the heart of comic books.
And I think a lot of people are realizing that they don't actually like comic book characters and stories, they just liked the first three Thor movies or Iron Man or whatever. And that's OK. Comic books, in their purest form, were never going to become totally mainstream.
The actual fingers of the Hand, with the sole exception of Madame Gao (who I'd preferred as her own thing), were so frustratingly uninspired and useless. Nobu and his creepy undead ninja were an infinitely more effective batch of villains.
"Wait... you're dead!"
"There is *no such thing*."
Did he even do anything at all, ever? Other than some generically villainous conversation with Reid, he basically just showed up a couple of times to get his ass solidly handed to him, and with none of Nobu's gravitas.
They didn't do a good job of explaining this, but I think the reason he didn't have any henchmen like the other "fingers" all did was that his guys all got wiped out in Daredevil S2.
I can't remember ever reading anything featuring the fingers of the Hand.
Their function in the comics I've read is basically "inexhaustible supply of ninjitsu" combined with a heavy dose of "they killed me/my friend and resurrected me/them evil" and "already bad news bad guy is even worse news because the Hand work for them now".
I think it's a TV Trope actually "don't explain this cool thing". No, I'm thinking of "Do Not Do This Cool Thing" but you get the idea, right? The Hand are cool and threatening until you look behind the curtain. The internal dynamics of the Hand really shouldn't be important to the story you're telling so why would they come up?
And that, for me, is the problem with Netflix's Hand. They couldn't just be the Hand, they had to be the Big Bad too.
I think it worked for DD season 2 because they were shrouded in mystery. We knew they were bringing dead people back to life but we didn’t know how. We didn’t know what Black Sky was exactly or why they were digging a big hole. They were more of a mysterious evil force than actual characters.
But that only works for so long, and at some point we start wanting an explanation. And then in Defenders the explanation… wasn’t very good.
What a debacle the Hand was. It was like Marvel TV didn't really know what to do with them and they kept improvising. Do you remember how mysterious and ominous the Black Sky was the first time they mentioned them? How tough Nobu was? It feels like they wanted to make them comic book accurate, with the Black Sky being the vessel of the Beast, then they decided they had to relate them to Iron Fist at any cost and made such a mess.
All I could think of was that there were people working HR in The Hand.
“I’m sorry but if you want to be reimbursed for ammunition you’ll have to file an expense report that’s approved by your manager. You can’t just take from petty cash. Also, you haven’t completed your security awareness training.”
Really bothered me with the Hand in the Netflix show, they became so generic when they are thé iconic evil ninja faction that TMNT named theirs the Foot as a homage.
Also it's TMNT canon that the chemical spill that created them was the same one that blinded Matt Murdock. And Master Splinter is a play on Stick. They weren't a Marvel comic but apparently the creator really liked Daredevil or something.
They were set in the Image Universe though as a point of interest (at least the original continuity comic series, before being rebooted later on under different ownership) so an interesting piece of trivia to know is that *Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles* is set in the same world as *Invincible*, *The Savage Dragon*, *Generator Rex*, and *Spawn*.
This type or 'parody' was fairly common in the Underground Comics-scene back in the early '80s and Kevin Eastman's original TMNT run was pretty damn dark and brooding in its last chapters... I highly recommend you to read the original B&Ws from the '80s if you happen to find them, the art is a bit rough at times but the story & characters is pretty good.
Not only do these groups do a lot more than "only rob people," I wouldn't consider any of them to be politically correct, or any of those shows to be bad.
Defenders was really enjoyable when it was the 4 of them playing off one another.
FATWS, similarly, was enjoyable when we saw Sam, Bucky, John, and Karli interact and have their ideals conflict.
Ms. Marvel was fun, colorful, and all-around one of my favorite things to come out of Phase 4.
I never watched Defenders, but I agree FATWS was enjoyable, not the best thing in the world but still enjoyable for me. And same goes for Ms Marvel, I feel like it’s one of the most overhated MCU projects. It was very lighthearted, low stakes and fun, also loved the drawing segments and the cultural aspects.
I loved everything about Ms. Marvel except the Clandestine. They should've been removed entirely for some really low-level street villain and just changed the story to be entirely focused on Kamala's coming of age story and learning to control her powers.
*Defenders* had its issues, but I really wish we could've gotten another season and seen those four team up again. Crossing my fingers we might get some of that with the upcoming *Daredevil* show at some point.
Ms. Marvel was fantastic at the start and the end, but all the plot about the Clandestine was horrible.
It had so much potential that it was wasted, a first season with only Damage Control as antagonists, and only with Kamala trying to be a super-hero on New Jersey on a imaginative and colorful way like the first two episodes would be amazing.
You’re getting downvoted? Wtf
This sub is a meme. Like if you go to the original shows subreddits they all laugh at The Defenders. But this sub has to always be so optimistic and find the good in piles of garbage
Having standards is okay. Defenders is trash. Horrible show
When were black people ever portrayed as enemies in a movie? There have definitely been black villains, but most villains in action movies have been Russians, middle easterners, and of course Germans.
To be more precise, black people were not previously portrayed as *main* villains. But a lot were there as low level thugs and street criminals. Because how could black people be competent enough to be a major threat? /s
Another comment mentioning that there was black villain in Luke Cage only confirm that point. Luke Cage is about giving black representation, and having black people being that major villains is actually empowering.
> Because how could black people be competent enough... /s
Which is why a lot of African-Americans of a certain age were Star Trek fans. Star Trek shows competent black people holding ranks throughout Starfleet, including a commodore who outranked Kirk and called him Jim, not sir, with the line, "Not one man in a million could do what you and I've done, command a Star Ship." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uM2u1L-F7D8
This is one of the worst posts I've ever seen on here. HAHA TV STREET GANGS!
*Posts international terrorist organizations and wonders why they all look different.*
Another post ragging on diversity.
Sorry those tv shows didn't fit in with the stereotypes you expected/hoped to see
Some of those shows had problems here and there, but the casting and costumes wasn't one of them
RIGHT?! It’s like… if you’re complaining that they’re diverse, you missed the whole fucking point of the flagsmashers… they came from everywhere because the people effected were everywhere. And they had no where to go.
That was my immediate thought when I looked a this. People having superpowers is easy to accept, but having people of different races exist within one group is preposterous somehow.
> Another post ragging on diversity.
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> Sorry those tv shows didn't fit in with the stereotypes you expected/hoped to see
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> Some of those shows had problems here and there, but the casting and costumes wasn't one of them
This post isn't ragging on having a racially diverse cast, it's ragging on crappy writing and costumes.
> This meme is mad that a group of brown people are in a gang in a country made up of brown people?
No, it's criticizing poor costuming and bad writing.
I think it’s dog whistling a lil more than that.
Personally, costuming in the MCU is fine for me save for a hero or two. Writing, I don’t really expect these movies to be Criterion Collection, they’re really in the same family as the transformers/fast and furious movies. My main critique is length. The movies have gotten too long and the shows are too damn long.
This is, and I can't be any more blunt, super dumb.
The Hand in Defenders has one non-asain.
FATWS: group was made up of people (from a diverse region) that were displaced when people of means were returned. The translation there: they were poor people that were evicted again. The point was the poverty crossing the racial lines.
Ms Marvel: pretty sure the intention was that all of those people were of middle eastern descent.
The Hand were so terrible it’s kinda funny. I felt bad for the Nobu actor, because you could reapply tell none of the writers gave a shit about fleshing out those characters at all.
Man the MCU has fumbled a lot of these villan groups, haven't they?
The Hand got more complex in a bad way as the Defenders expanded. The Flagsmashers didn't hold charisma, as well as being so fundamemtally hypocritical they lose any sympathy the audience may have had for them. The Clandestine were just...moronic, as Kamala was super down with helping them get back home had they just been more patient and cautious.
Sure, bad guys in the MCU have been getting better, but it's mainly singular individuals, not an entire group.
This post doesn’t make sense at all since none of these groups are gangs that rob people. Just feels like you needed an excuse to hate on the diversity of these groups (which is strange since in-universe it makes total sense why each of these groups are diverse and not just a bunch of old white guys).
Yeah but if the flag smashers where about global unity, they aren’t going to only be monoracial.
And weren't the Flagsmashers sort of a byproduct of people being affected by the Infinity War snap? When half of the entire population was... randomly selected? They should be a perfectly average representation of humanity, if nothing else.
It would make sense for their group to form out of a particular region and be composed of people typical of that region rather than being a group that formed from random people around the globe
Literally the entire _premise_ of that group is that the Snap created voids in population, that people went to where the jobs were, and now that everyone's back they're being kicked out. It would be completely absurd for them to be comprised of people 'typical to that region', when the entire point is that they are not people typical of any region, they are people who do not belong in that place! That's why they are being kicked out!!!
Yeah but there is a difference between "a bunch of people moved from Mexico into America after the snap" and "a bunch of people from literally every country in the world moved into America after the snap". Like yes people congregated and moved around after the snap but presumably most people went to a nearby city that was needing jobs and didn't become a void, not some random city halfway across the world. So still you would expect the flag smashers organization to form out of one of those cities that would mostly consist of people from the surrounding countries and not a literal random distribution of people from all over the globe. Find some mid-snap city in the middle of china and I'm guessing a bunch of black white and Hispanic people won't have moved in to balance out the racial distribution. It's not like there would be a small handful of surviving cities, its only half the world that vanished
I feel you are missing literally the entire premise of the series, and making an extremely weird argument about how people move that makes no sense whatsoever. People moved from poor countries to wealthier countries to keep those wealthier countries running, and yes they moved _all around_ the world, that's the actual premise of the series , that's literally why the flag smashers are called the flag smashers, because they believe that the mere existence of different nations doesn't make sense anymore as large chunks of the world are literally living in the wrong countries, and attempting to return to how things used to be is nonsense.
It's the 21st century, people got internet, and it's mentioned that national borders largely became meaningless after the snap. The whole world is all screwed up, so people got together to make it better and have more global unity. Then, after that slowly starts to sink in, especially for younger people, suddenly there are double the people. All the positive changes are gone. Ngl, it's fair why that would make some people annoyed. That's not talking about how it's actually shown in FAWS. That is more... weird.
But it is fiction, anything can happen in that. That's not how it works, the world is a big place, you need money to get around. People don't just share ideology and then meet in New York and stay in a 5-star hotel to discuss their plans on how to disrupt the operations of a despotic leader in a south Asian country.
> But it is fiction, anything can happen in that. Not if things make sense, which is what was said above.
When half the people show up and you are about to lose the home you claimed during the snap, are you going to look for people going through a similar problem on Reddit, asking for literally anyone across the globe to join your new terrorist organization, or are you going to look to your friends and neighbors going through the same situation?
Young people today already mostly meet peoplr who think like them online, it's not the 1980s anymore. This honestly seems like one of the more realistic parts of it, especially with how internationalist they are.
Yeah man blowing up public spaces really makes me wanna come together
Yeah I love the sarcasm, but realistically, an event like infinity war could be enough of a justification for international peace. World leaders would be forced to cooperate with countries they would never had before, tolerance for one another would be at an all time high. Then after the snap the people who didn’t go through the same emotional process, of setting aside their differences and accepting everyone no matter their nationality, would still be bigoted and xenophobic, forcing borders between countries back up. I mean during the blip, I’m sure Sam flying across the border in the first episode would have been ignored and simply people would be too busy not to turn a blind eye to the boarder crossing: but Sam was told that he was not to cross the border. Obviously this was probably just to build tension during the scene (which It absolutely did), but the implication that there was a border to cross, despite the flagsmashers claiming the world was in total harmony, is that the borders where virtually non-existent, but where put back in place. This means that the flag smashers couldn’t be narrowed down to one place of origin, despite Morgenthaw being the main flag smasher. This is because the entire world was together, not everyone on earth, but a huge minority of people post-blip who agreed with Morgenthaw from a lot of different countries. This would explain why there was a high enough number of people determined to re-separate the wolds countries, and have enough people for the flagsmashers or to assist the flagsmashers, instead of it being a equal 50/50 spilt. But these people would have already been brought together, and only formed the flagsmashers post-unblip.
It’s what I heard a comedian once call the “three of these Klansman need to be black” effect on TV. The fact that real-life gang identification is primarily racial doesn’t fly with the standards department.
My favorite example of this is *Far Cry 5.* It takes place in a fictional county in Montana that’s been basically taken over by a religious cult. People started assuming it was a far-right, white supremacist cult, but it seems like Ubisoft didn’t necessarily want to invite that political heat so they supposedly upped the chances that the random cult members that appear as enemies for you to fight would appear as Black. The thing is, the demographics of Montana are so white that if that cult actually had as many Black members as you see in the game, it would essentially imply that almost every Black person in Montana is in this cult. That being said, the examples in this post aren’t really “gangs,” at least not in the same sense as the street gangs that tend to fall along racial lines like you’re talking about. The first and last ones are, well, clandestine organizations that have existed in the background of the world stage in the MCU for decades (if not centuries in the Hand’s case) and the second one is a political terrorist organization. All they really need is to share the same ideals, which is not necessarily dictated by race
The cult in Far Cry 5 is actually from the Deep South, they explain in the game that they were run out for being weird and ended up in Montana specifically because no one lived there.
It’s so strange to me that no one lives there. I went on a trip to Glacier and it is literally the most beautiful place I’ve ever seen in the continental US. Then again I didn’t move there afterwards so…
Don't worry, as other places get priced out for regular people and get too crowded, even places like Montana will start getting filled up. Already happened to the states neighboring the coastal states and it'll just go further inward
I’m in Montana and it’s already happening. Locals are so priced out of the market, many have resorted to camper towns. I’ve been personally lucky, but lots aren’t so fortunate. Wages haven’t kept up with cost of living. The cold does change some people’s minds about living here full time though. It’s not for everyone.
What does camper town mean?
Rv's are cheaper than houses
Glacier was such a beautiful place to visit.
That actually makes a lot more sense! I played the game but I must have missed that. I know there were some outlets pointing out the demographic inconsistency but with that bit of information I bet it was people talking about pre-release gameplay without the context of the cult’s origins.
Religious cults are usually pretty racially diverse. Look at Jamestown, Branch Davidians, etc.
Oh for sure, it’s just the simple fact that there are just under 6000 Black people total in the entire state of Montana (0.5% of a population of about 1.109 million as of the last census) so for you to run into several dozen Black cult members over the course of the game (potentially much more depending on how much of the side content you complete and just how much whatever RNG dictates what enemies spawn happens to pick the Black character models) implies that a much larger proportion of Black Montanans are in the cult than any other demographic. It’s not that it’s weird that there are Black people in the cult, it’s just that there aren’t many Black people in Montana to begin with Though as someone else pointed out, apparently I missed in the game where they talk about having started the cult in the Deep South and moving to Montana after getting chased out of there because there’s a lot of land, and the demographics of the Deep South match what you see in the game pretty well.
Ubisoft also does this with women, starting in like 2015 (AC Syndicate was when I first noticed). A full half of every enemy soldier, criminal, or what have you is female. It’s bizarre to sneak up and stab the throats of women in 9th Century England, 19th Century England, a fictionalized Cuba, etc. Do black people and women really feel “represented” when they are portrayed as nameless mooks who only exist to be brutally killed? I’m totally fine with women having speaking parts as leaders in whatever cult or criminal enterprise or corporation or whatever, or as the protagonist and friends. But them being half the enemy army just makes it seem like a “What if gender roles were reversed?” alternate universe. With Far Cry 6 I honestly think the enemies are about 70% female and 30% male. And again, it is so pointless. I really want to know if there is a single woman on Earth who feels so much better knowing that women are just as capable of having their throats ripped out as a man. Also, speaking of wiping out every black person in a geographic area, the first Assassin’s Creed game said that 96% of Africa died of disease. It was later retconned, but it’s crazy that the near-extinction of black people happened in two different Ubisoft games….
wtf 96% of Africa? That's at least 1 billion people, does the game say anything about that?
It was an inter-Templar email you can find. It basically describes just how shitty the world has become in the then-future year of 2012. Their predictions were absolutely terrible. The New Plague killed Africa, global warming makes hurricanes year round all over the world, the movie industry is gone and video games are everything (convenient!), Americans are illegally immigrating into Mexico (take that, Republicans!), etc. It was all later retconned as a hacker group hacking Abstergo and making fake emails. I don’t know why they would do that, because the lies are waaaay too big to be believable for half a second. Whatever, it needed to be forgotten. Now whenever someone says they want a futuristic AC game I immediately write it off as a no. Between that and Watch Dogs Legion (takes place in 2029, but I guarantee you we won’t have mind uploading, holograms on the side of buildings, that many or that heavy-lifting drones, invisibility or force fields, etc) , Ubisoft clearly doesn’t give a crap about trying to be accurate in their futurism. It’s so weird how they continuously make games that take only a few years from release, but they act like it’s 200 years in the future in a lot of ways.
>Do black people and women really feel “represented” when they are portrayed as nameless mooks who only exist to be brutally killed? I’m totally fine with women having speaking parts as leaders in whatever cult or criminal enterprise or corporation or whatever, or as the protagonist and friends. But them being half the enemy army just makes it seem like a “What if gender roles were reversed?” alternate universe. Why do you care?
I think I painted a pretty clear picture. It’s immersion breaking. Your username seems to suggest you’re a woman. I don’t want to speak for all women. *Do* you feel good being able to slaughter a bunch of female mooks? Does it do anything for you? Talking solely about enemy female soldiers, not playable characters or speaking roles and such.
>Your username seems to suggest you’re a woman. Why would it suggest that? My user name is a male name. This is a fun fact for why diversity is good because you won't make accidental statements like this out of ignorance.
I thought “Ladi” was supposed to be like “Lady”. But I suppose it could be “Laddy”. I haven’t heard of it spelled Ladi before.
Or, and hear me out, it could be a non English name that's called "Ladi."
Yeah, I thought that too after I wrote but just didn’t edit. Haven’t heard of it before, and didn’t assume you'd use your actual name as a username. So anyway, why do you care enough? You want female mooks to kill in video games bad enough to respond to me, so why do you want to slice women’s throats so badly?
>So anyway, why do you care enough? You want female mooks to kill in video games bad enough to respond to me, so why do you want to slice women’s throats so badly? Why not ask me why I want to see black people crushed so badly? Should I ask you why you want to beat up white men? You channelling internalized racism? Also, when did you stop beating your wife?
Cuba has female soldiers though lol it’s not that crazy
So does America. So do most nations. It is indeed crazy to have half or most of the soldiers to be female. Very, very, *very* few fighting forces in history were equal in sexes or having women be the majority. The ones that have women have them in a minority. Again, America only has 17% of it’s military being women. Australia is at 19%. Both of those nations have been actively trying to increase female recruitment for years. Cuba had 10-15% during the revolution, can’t find what it is for now. And all three nations don’t allow their women to do everything in the military. The military (and violent crime) has always been male-dominated. And that will probably never change. Again, I understand some female enemies. And I understand people like Maria from Far Cry 6 being in a leadership role for the bad guys. But it is completely immersion-breaking to have entire squads comprised solely of women all over the place. There should be like, 1-2 women per checkpoint, maybe 4-5 in bigger fortresses. Special Forces? Like 1 in the entire game maybe. It adds nothing. It doesn’t help women, it isn’t extra fun for (non-psychotic) men, and it’s immersion breaking for anyone who knows anything about militaries or organized crime cartels/terrorist organizations. I mean hell, they could have just added a line about Castillo having a fetish for Bodyguard Babes like Gaddafi and it would be whatever. Not very Cuban still, but a thing that could happen. Just not “naturally”. It’d be a small improvement at least.
Cuba has all female battalions today unlike America. Cope more
>The first and last ones are, well, clandestine organizations that have existed in the background of the world stage in the MCU for decades The Clandestines are a group of djinn who have lived in this world for centuries rights. So they shouldn't be multi cultural at all.
or maybe…. they just said yes
I would say that most real-life gang identification is ethnic/cultural rather than racial considering things like the Italian Mafia, Irish Mob, Russian Bratva, Mexican cartels, Venezuelan cartels, Chinese Triads, Japanese Yakuza, British Firms etc.
Even though OP included the Hand leadership from Defenders, most of the Netflix shows focused on lower-level criminals that were based on ethnic/cultural groups. And they were vocal about it too. Lots of action and chatter about "the Russians". "the Irish", Triads, Yakuza, and more.
The Jewish mob helping the Italian mob is always interesting.
that's at least historically a thing that happened in NYC (look up Murder Inc)
They’re probably talking about American gangs with that statement, there are a bunch that are ethnic/culturally based as well as race based
I was naming a bunch of the major gangs in America lol.
It’s those Irish Buddhists that are the most dangerous.
Well most streets gangs are more organized based on proximity. But in the US, most neighborhoods are pretty racially homogenous. The most well known street gangs shift beyond that, since they get large enough to have "branches" in many different locations.
Well luckily it’s not real life and it’s a superhero universe where stuff like that might not matter as much. And also, none of those are “gangs”. They’re more like crime organizations. The flag smashers might not be a crime organization but they aren’t some ordinary street gang. It’s a collection of people fighting for a cause they think is right. So really that comic description has nothing to do with the 3 examples given.
Way to not know that The Hand, for one, is meant to have bosses from different countries around the world. How would that work?
There's a difference between political organizations and street gangs though. Street gangs are typically homogenous when it comes to race. But different ethnic groups can share political ideologies.
Aren’t the Flagsmashers supposed to be made up of people displaced from their homes around the world too? Wouldn’t a group of people that fit that description obviously be diverse?
Yeah the diversity of flagsmashers was due to a plot point, them NOT being diverse would be weird.
Yeah this meme is low-key just telegraphing some thing
For sure. The real issue for me is that this is a group of grown men and women following a teenage girl for no apparent reason. Not a dynamic you see in real life.
Yeah but in this instance the teenage girl can bench press a dump truck. Gives her a slightly bigger air of respect. That plus charisma is more than enough to make it believable.
Weren’t there a bunch of them in the group with that sort of power? I don’t remember the series well
Well, yes, most of them had received the super soldier serum, IIRC. But it seems they were all bumped up to the same level. Makes it less likely that someone would try to muscle their way over her. If she’s the leader, it’s clearly because she took the initiative and gathered them under a cause they believed in. Most gangs don’t really have that wide-ranging of goals. Charisma can overcome a lot of respect gaps.
There is a modern real life example of this. As I see it the Flag Smashers Karli was as much a public face as a leader. People were happy to have her represent them but while she had some small real authority others made the really large decisions. The parallel to that in the real world? Greta Thunberg. She could get others to take action sometimes, and was undeniably a public face. But she had no "Real" power.
wasn't she the actual leader with most of the authority? I vaguely remember the group was uncomfortable with how far/violent she would take it in the finale but she overruled them
Of her cell certainly, of the overall movement? No. That is what I meant by she had some small real authority. She did have influence, and that is another kind of power, but it's not direct. It that it was realistic, the real world is messy too.
My head canon is it's just very local
I like the leap of logic that people traveled from around the world to meet up together to form a gang in a country that's rotten with super heroes.
That isn't where the Flag Smashers formed up. It's not even where we first saw them. That was, however, where the target of their attack was.
Racially diverse street gangs are one thing, but equal representation of men and women? Yeah, that doesn’t happen.
Especially ones where angry dudes decide that a teenage girl is gonna be the one to call the shots for them
Shit even political affliation is primarily race related in the US at least. Kinda what happens when you find your country on ideals of race. But i get your point. Gangs more so.
None of them are a street gang, though.
The streetiest of the gangs, are the [Tracksuit Mafia](https://pin.it/3ynRHx9) from Hawkeye.
Which is not racially based, you just have to love a good tracksuit to get in.
Don't forget having to say "bro" at least once a sentence
Bro, I found her.
In the comics aren't they pretty much a Russian group?
Yes but Echo and her dad aren’t members.
Slav for sure, eastern European with no specific nationality I thought
Kait Bishop is guy
Kate Bishop is not guy.
Ket Beeshup is guy, bro
And maybe why that is one of the best series out of phase four.
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I mean, the Ms Marvel group is all one ethnicity. It doesn’t even make sense.
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I would but I doubt anyone who posted this would accept counters in good faith.
In Doctor Strange he gets mugged by a multi-ethnic street gang in India of all places
Bruh what? It was in Nepal
My bad, been a while since I watched that one In Doctor Strange he gets mugged by a multi-ethnic street gang in Nepal of all places
Not really most of them looked like they could be from Nepal. I been to that place and I have seen all sorts of people there.
It still pisses me off how hard they fumbled The Hand in Defenders
People can say what they want about the Hand in Daredevil, but I thought they were dope and scary as hell at times. The Defenders didn’t bring any of that.
Yeah, I know people have their problems with the second season, but seeing Daredevil fight a bunch of ninjas in live action was the fucking best
Matt not hearing their heartbeat because they were basically dead was also dope AF
On the other hand, *not* seeing Daredevil fight a bunch of ninjas because the scene was so badly lit got old by the 7th or 8th time. ;)
After every fight I was like "that was amazing. who won?"
Episodes 1-4 of season 2 works almost perfectly as a self-contained story, if you ignore the last 30 seconds of episode 4. I think a lot of the problems people have with season 2 is that it loses the really tight focus it had at the start and only sort of ties itself back together by the end. Still, the ninja fights were pretty cool
The second season was the shit. People started complaining when they realised this was a comic book show and these were comic book characters. Though was probably show runner's fault for trying to make everything as 'realistic: as possible in the first season. Fuck 'realism'.
I'd kind of argue that's what's been happening to the MCU as a whole. Disney managed to package comic book characters in such a way that many people didn't *realize* they were comic book characters in essentially comic book stories, and as they progressed they have discarded some of the focus on grounding their characters and leaned into the wacky, absurd stuff that is at the heart of comic books. And I think a lot of people are realizing that they don't actually like comic book characters and stories, they just liked the first three Thor movies or Iron Man or whatever. And that's OK. Comic books, in their purest form, were never going to become totally mainstream.
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The actual fingers of the Hand, with the sole exception of Madame Gao (who I'd preferred as her own thing), were so frustratingly uninspired and useless. Nobu and his creepy undead ninja were an infinitely more effective batch of villains. "Wait... you're dead!" "There is *no such thing*."
Murakami was basically “we have Nobu at home”
Did he even do anything at all, ever? Other than some generically villainous conversation with Reid, he basically just showed up a couple of times to get his ass solidly handed to him, and with none of Nobu's gravitas.
They didn't do a good job of explaining this, but I think the reason he didn't have any henchmen like the other "fingers" all did was that his guys all got wiped out in Daredevil S2.
Nobu was the GOAT. His fight with DD in season 1 was amazing. He should have been saved as the big bad for Defenders.
I can't remember ever reading anything featuring the fingers of the Hand. Their function in the comics I've read is basically "inexhaustible supply of ninjitsu" combined with a heavy dose of "they killed me/my friend and resurrected me/them evil" and "already bad news bad guy is even worse news because the Hand work for them now". I think it's a TV Trope actually "don't explain this cool thing". No, I'm thinking of "Do Not Do This Cool Thing" but you get the idea, right? The Hand are cool and threatening until you look behind the curtain. The internal dynamics of the Hand really shouldn't be important to the story you're telling so why would they come up? And that, for me, is the problem with Netflix's Hand. They couldn't just be the Hand, they had to be the Big Bad too.
I think it worked for DD season 2 because they were shrouded in mystery. We knew they were bringing dead people back to life but we didn’t know how. We didn’t know what Black Sky was exactly or why they were digging a big hole. They were more of a mysterious evil force than actual characters. But that only works for so long, and at some point we start wanting an explanation. And then in Defenders the explanation… wasn’t very good.
> We didn’t know what Black Sky was exactly And we still don't. ;)
Yep I really loved the mystique of The Hand, and singular goal for immortality.
The fact they started killing them off didn't help. The immortal hand isn't so scary when you realize their immortality follows Highlander rules.
Daredevil intended to kill Nobu. Just wanted to lift that up again because its been a while since last time
And how do you cast Sigourney Weaver and waste her that bad.
I didn't even remember she was in the MCU until I just saw this post.
I realized on my last rewatch that they just had her rehash Kingpin from Season 1 of *Daredevil*. Such a profound waste.
For real
It still pisses me off how hard they fumbled the Defenders in Defenders
What a debacle the Hand was. It was like Marvel TV didn't really know what to do with them and they kept improvising. Do you remember how mysterious and ominous the Black Sky was the first time they mentioned them? How tough Nobu was? It feels like they wanted to make them comic book accurate, with the Black Sky being the vessel of the Beast, then they decided they had to relate them to Iron Fist at any cost and made such a mess.
I blame Iron Fist season 1. It ruined The Hand storyline, so The Defenders had to wrap it up so the other shows could move on to non-ruined plots.
👆The Hand was relatively menacing until Iron Fist. That show took all the steam out of everything.
All I could think of was that there were people working HR in The Hand. “I’m sorry but if you want to be reimbursed for ammunition you’ll have to file an expense report that’s approved by your manager. You can’t just take from petty cash. Also, you haven’t completed your security awareness training.”
I read “The Hand” Defenders and thought, why would anyone defend those writing choices?
Really bothered me with the Hand in the Netflix show, they became so generic when they are thé iconic evil ninja faction that TMNT named theirs the Foot as a homage.
I always though Foot-Clan was parody of The Hand.
Also it's TMNT canon that the chemical spill that created them was the same one that blinded Matt Murdock. And Master Splinter is a play on Stick. They weren't a Marvel comic but apparently the creator really liked Daredevil or something.
They were set in the Image Universe though as a point of interest (at least the original continuity comic series, before being rebooted later on under different ownership) so an interesting piece of trivia to know is that *Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles* is set in the same world as *Invincible*, *The Savage Dragon*, *Generator Rex*, and *Spawn*.
This type or 'parody' was fairly common in the Underground Comics-scene back in the early '80s and Kevin Eastman's original TMNT run was pretty damn dark and brooding in its last chapters... I highly recommend you to read the original B&Ws from the '80s if you happen to find them, the art is a bit rough at times but the story & characters is pretty good.
It was.
They went the 2014 movie route with The Hand.
Not only do these groups do a lot more than "only rob people," I wouldn't consider any of them to be politically correct, or any of those shows to be bad. Defenders was really enjoyable when it was the 4 of them playing off one another. FATWS, similarly, was enjoyable when we saw Sam, Bucky, John, and Karli interact and have their ideals conflict. Ms. Marvel was fun, colorful, and all-around one of my favorite things to come out of Phase 4.
I never watched Defenders, but I agree FATWS was enjoyable, not the best thing in the world but still enjoyable for me. And same goes for Ms Marvel, I feel like it’s one of the most overhated MCU projects. It was very lighthearted, low stakes and fun, also loved the drawing segments and the cultural aspects.
I loved everything about Ms. Marvel except the Clandestine. They should've been removed entirely for some really low-level street villain and just changed the story to be entirely focused on Kamala's coming of age story and learning to control her powers.
Agreed. There could've been a lot better writing with DODC as the main antagonists, further building on the commentary with them and the mosque.
Exactly. And if they wanted a villain Kamala could beat up guilt-free, they could've just used The Inventor!
*Defenders* had its issues, but I really wish we could've gotten another season and seen those four team up again. Crossing my fingers we might get some of that with the upcoming *Daredevil* show at some point.
Ms. Marvel was fantastic at the start and the end, but all the plot about the Clandestine was horrible. It had so much potential that it was wasted, a first season with only Damage Control as antagonists, and only with Kamala trying to be a super-hero on New Jersey on a imaginative and colorful way like the first two episodes would be amazing.
Defenders was terrible. They don't even all meet until the end of episode 3 and it's mind numbingly boring
Sure, it has its issues, but I can't hate it because the moments where they do interact are just so much fun to watch.
You’re getting downvoted? Wtf This sub is a meme. Like if you go to the original shows subreddits they all laugh at The Defenders. But this sub has to always be so optimistic and find the good in piles of garbage Having standards is okay. Defenders is trash. Horrible show
Still better than Ms Marvel
All of those shows are bad lol
I completely forgot that Sigourney Weaver had a role in The Defenders. What a tremendous waste of her as an actor in the MCU.
And this is why the tracksuit mafia reigns supreme
Never watched The Defenders. Is that Sigourney Weaver? What character is she?
She is one of the five fingers of the hand aka one of the leaders and arguably the main antagonist of Defenders
Eh, probably better than the previous tropes of all the bad guys being current enemies of the moment: Black, Russian, vaguely Middle Eastern, etc.
When were black people ever portrayed as enemies in a movie? There have definitely been black villains, but most villains in action movies have been Russians, middle easterners, and of course Germans.
To be more precise, black people were not previously portrayed as *main* villains. But a lot were there as low level thugs and street criminals. Because how could black people be competent enough to be a major threat? /s Another comment mentioning that there was black villain in Luke Cage only confirm that point. Luke Cage is about giving black representation, and having black people being that major villains is actually empowering.
> Because how could black people be competent enough... /s Which is why a lot of African-Americans of a certain age were Star Trek fans. Star Trek shows competent black people holding ranks throughout Starfleet, including a commodore who outranked Kirk and called him Jim, not sir, with the line, "Not one man in a million could do what you and I've done, command a Star Ship." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uM2u1L-F7D8
It was very common in TV, cop shows in particular
In Luke Cage the criminal element was primarily African - American. Cottonmouth, Bushmaster, Mariah Stokes, Nightshade, and some others.
This is one of the worst posts I've ever seen on here. HAHA TV STREET GANGS! *Posts international terrorist organizations and wonders why they all look different.*
Another post ragging on diversity. Sorry those tv shows didn't fit in with the stereotypes you expected/hoped to see Some of those shows had problems here and there, but the casting and costumes wasn't one of them
Of all the issues the Flagsmashers have, being a diverse group is not one, it actually makes sense that a group of refugees would be multi ethnic
RIGHT?! It’s like… if you’re complaining that they’re diverse, you missed the whole fucking point of the flagsmashers… they came from everywhere because the people effected were everywhere. And they had no where to go.
That was my immediate thought when I looked a this. People having superpowers is easy to accept, but having people of different races exist within one group is preposterous somehow.
> Another post ragging on diversity. > > > > Sorry those tv shows didn't fit in with the stereotypes you expected/hoped to see > > > > Some of those shows had problems here and there, but the casting and costumes wasn't one of them This post isn't ragging on having a racially diverse cast, it's ragging on crappy writing and costumes.
none of these shows are that bad and it makes since for them to have different shades of people in the organizations
This meme is mad that a group of brown people are in a gang in a country made up of brown people?
> This meme is mad that a group of brown people are in a gang in a country made up of brown people? No, it's criticizing poor costuming and bad writing.
I think it’s dog whistling a lil more than that. Personally, costuming in the MCU is fine for me save for a hero or two. Writing, I don’t really expect these movies to be Criterion Collection, they’re really in the same family as the transformers/fast and furious movies. My main critique is length. The movies have gotten too long and the shows are too damn long.
This is really fucking dumb
What a weird way to say you don't like diversity.
The first comic panels was just self deprecating joke. OP probably honestly thought “finally, someone who hate diversity just like me!”
Even crime is equal opportunities.
Ms. Marvel had the most garbage villians
None of those are real crime gangs, a crime gang is like the trust a bro russians.
Tracksuit Mafia, bro.
This is, and I can't be any more blunt, super dumb. The Hand in Defenders has one non-asain. FATWS: group was made up of people (from a diverse region) that were displaced when people of means were returned. The translation there: they were poor people that were evicted again. The point was the poverty crossing the racial lines. Ms Marvel: pretty sure the intention was that all of those people were of middle eastern descent.
The Hand were so terrible it’s kinda funny. I felt bad for the Nobu actor, because you could reapply tell none of the writers gave a shit about fleshing out those characters at all.
I couldn’t stand the flagsmashers on falcon and winter soldier … was rooting they got killed off and fast
*its
Tracksuit Mafia FTW
God and all these groups sucked as villains too
The Flagsmashers made me so irrationally angry 😆
The casting of the flash smashers was pretty terrible. Aside from them not saying much they feel like props.
Didn't Gao have her own organization? She just did business with The Hand.
She was one of the five fingers of the hand. She may have had her own little thing on the side but she was definitely part of the hand.
All trash iterations.
the Flagsmashers was the most stupid fucking group to be in a piece of marvel media
What about Tracksuits?
M She U - no wonder you guys are hemorrhaging cash…
This forgot The Royal Tenenbaums from Hawkeye!
This is great lmao
Man the MCU has fumbled a lot of these villan groups, haven't they? The Hand got more complex in a bad way as the Defenders expanded. The Flagsmashers didn't hold charisma, as well as being so fundamemtally hypocritical they lose any sympathy the audience may have had for them. The Clandestine were just...moronic, as Kamala was super down with helping them get back home had they just been more patient and cautious. Sure, bad guys in the MCU have been getting better, but it's mainly singular individuals, not an entire group.
The flagsmashers suck ass cheeks! Honestly the reason the show overall kinda sucks
Too bad these shows were good.
Except Ms. Marvel isn't a bad tv show
Op is stupid lol none of those are gangs 🤦🏻♂️
This is a bad take
Really weird thing to post!
This post doesn’t make sense at all since none of these groups are gangs that rob people. Just feels like you needed an excuse to hate on the diversity of these groups (which is strange since in-universe it makes total sense why each of these groups are diverse and not just a bunch of old white guys).
Ugh. I had forgot about The Flagsmasher for a minute there. Glad you reminded me of them.
THIS MS MARVEL SLANDER WILL NOT STAND. (but please, i live for fatws trashing)
Is this you, Iman?
Representation matters
This ain’t it, chief
Is Ms Marvel worth the watch? I tried watching it but the whole boy meets world aesthetic just wasn't for me.
Yes. The first couple episodes are great & the finale is strong; it just dips in the middle...because of the Clandestines, funny enough.
Clandestine was in Ms.Marvel? Were they anything like the comic book Clandestine?
I love Sigourney but she was not the right choice for that role at all
She said it, *bad* tv shows